Hu's on First (Hebrew Lesson)
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
===============================
by
Rabbi Jack Moline
ABBOTT: I see you're here for your Hebrew lesson.
COSTELLO: I'm ready to learn.
A: Now, the first thing you must understand is that Hebrew and English
have many words which sound alike, but they do not mean the same thing.
C: Sure, I understand.
A: Now, don't be too quick to say that.
C: How stupid do you think I am -- don't answer that. It's simple --
some words in Hebrew sound like words in English, but they don't mean
the same.
A: Precisely.
C: We have that word in English, too. What does it mean in Hebrew?
A: No, no. Precisely is an English word.
C: I didn't come here to learn English, I came to learn Hebrew. So make
with the Hebrew.
A: Fine. Let's start with _mee_.
C: You.
A: No, _mee_.
C: Fine, we'll start with you.
A: No, we'll start with _mee_.
C: Okay, have it your way.
A: Now, _mee_ is "who."
C: You is Abbott.
A: No, no, no. _Mee_ is "who."
C: You is Abbott.
A: You don't understand.
C: I don't understand? Did you just say "me is who"?
A: Yes I did. _Mee_ is "who."
C: You is Abbott.
A: No, you misunderstand what I am saying. Tell me about _mee_.
C: Well, you're a nice enough guy.
A: No, no. Tell me about _mee_!
C: Who?
A: Precisely.
C: Precisely what?
A: Precisely "who."
C: It's precisely whom!
A: No, _mee_ is "who."
C: Don't start that again -- go on to something else.
A: All right. _Hu_ is "he."
C: Who is he?
A: Yes.
C: I don't know. Who is he?
A: Sure you do. You just said it.
C: I just said what?
A: _Hu_ is "he."
C: Who is he?
A: Precisely.
C: Again with the precisely! Precisely who?
A: No, precisely "he."
C: Precisely he? Who is he?
A: Precisely!
C: And what about me?
A: "Who."
C: Me, me, me!
A: "Who, who, who"!
C: What are you, an owl? Me! Who is me?
A: No, _hu_ is "he"!
C: I don't know! Maybe "he" is me!
A: No, _hee_ is "she"!
C: Do his parents know about this?
A: About what?
C: About he!
A: What about her?
C: That she is he!
A: No, you've got it wrong -- _hee_ is "she"!
C: Then who is he?
A: Precisely!
C: Who?
A: "He"!
C: Me?
A: "Who"!
C: He?
A: "She"!
C: Who is she?
A: No, _hu_ is "he."
C: I don't care who is he, I want to know who is she?
A: No, that's not right.
C: How can it not be right? I said it. I was standing here when I said
it, and I know me.
A: "Who."
C: Who?
A: Precisely!
C: Me! Me is that he you are talking about! He is me!
A: No, _hee_ is "she"!
C: Wait a Minute, wait a minute! I'm trying to learn a little Hebrew,
and now I can't even speak English. Let me review.
A: Go ahead.
C: Now first you want to know me is who.
A: Correct.
C: And then you say who is he.
A: Absolutely.
C: And then you tell me he is she.
A & C: Precisely!
C: Now look at this logically. If me is who. And who is he. And he is
she. Don't it stand to reason that me is she?
A: "Who"!
C: She!
A: That is _hee_!
C: Who is he?
A & C: Precisely!
C: I have just about had it. You have me confused. I want to go home.
You know what I want? Ma!
A: "What."
C: I said Ma.
A: "What."
Q: What are you, deaf? I want Ma!
A: "What"!
C: Not what, who!
A: "He"!
C: Not he! Ma is not he!
A: Of course not! _Hu_ is "he". _Ma_ is "what".
C: I don't know. I don't know. I don't care. I don't care who is he,
he is she, me is who, Ma is what. I just want to go home now and play
with my dog.
A: _Fish_.
C: Fish?
A: "Dog" is _fish_.
C: That's all, I'm outa here.
------------------------------------------------------------
Received from Dr. Louis B.
R.A. added italics and quote marks for easier understanding.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman, Editor
Santa Rosa, CA 95402, USA
Jan Lewandowski
"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote :
> R.A. added italics and quote marks for easier understanding.
What is there easier understanding, he, he, he, he
"Wiedz na pewno, ze nigdy nie bedziesz wiedzial nic na pewno"
jlewan...@warsaw.com.pl
Maria Conlon
Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote in message <3910F4...@sonic.net>...
>ABBOTT & COSTELLO LEARN HEBREW
>===============================
>
>by
>Rabbi Jack Moline
>
>
>ABBOTT: I see you're here for your Hebrew lesson.
>
>COSTELLO: I'm ready to learn.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Received from Dr. Louis B.
>R.A. added italics and quote marks for easier understanding.
Wonderful, Rey! I really enjoyed that.
"Tootsie"
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote :
>
> > R.A. added italics and quote marks for easier understanding.
> What is there easier understanding, he, he, he, he
I put the Hebrew words in _italics_ and the translations in quotes.
These changes make this clever takeoff of a very famous piece of
American humor ("Who's on First") much easier to read and understand --
unless one is an _amerykanski dupa_ or a beginning student of _angielski
je,zyk_.
Czy pan rozumie?
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Jan Lewandowski
"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
American humor ("Who's on First") much easier to read and understand --
> unless one is an _amerykanski dupa_ or a beginning student of _angielski
> je,zyk_.
> Czy pan rozumie?
A pewnie ze rozumiem. Choc czasem nie wiem czy Polak z Zydem sie w ogole
moze zrozumiec ? Czy to jakies aluzje do mnie z tym okresleniem "beginnig
student of angielski jezyk" ? Po co tez od razu byc wulgarnym i uzywac slow
"dupa" ? Ale jest pan Sir usprawiedliwiony, bo ja tu jestem jedyny ktory
rozumie po polsku ! Ja sie wiec nie licze ! Wulgaryzmy wiec dopuszczone !
Nawiasem mowiac, lubie wszystko co zydowskie i wszystko co zydowskie jest
specyficznie smieszne i mile. Nawet pana lekcja hebrajskiego, Sir. Szydzic
nie zamierzalem mistrzu.
Z calym szacunkiem
Milo bylo poznac
Regards
Jan Lewandowski
"Wiedz na pewno, ze nic nie bedziesz wiedzial na pewno"
jlewan...@warsaw.com.pl
The Visitor
<mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote in message <3910F4...@sonic.net>...
>>ABBOTT & COSTELLO LEARN HEBREW
>>===============================
>>by
>>Rabbi Jack Moline
>>ABBOTT: I see you're here for your Hebrew lesson.
>>COSTELLO: I'm ready to learn.
>[snip 200+ great lines]
>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>Received from Dr. Louis B.
>>R.A. added italics and quote marks for easier understanding.
>Wonderful, Rey! I really enjoyed that.
>"Tootsie"
You Toots, are a racist troll!
Hope this helps
The Visitor
Martin A. Mazur
>
>"Wiedz na pewno, ze nic nie bedziesz wiedzial na pewno"
>jlewan...@warsaw.com.pl
>
My Polish is almost non-existent (I'm a 3rd generation American). Would you
please translate you .sig for me? Thanks.
Marty.
--
Martin A. Mazur .................... Representing only himself
http://www.personal.psu.edu/mxm14/
SOME POLISH COOKING: http://www.personal.psu.edu/mxm14/wigilia.htm
MY COMETS PAGE: http://www.personal.psu.edu/mxm14/comets.htm
Every religion that does not affirm that God is hidden is not true.
- Blaise Pascal
Jan Lewandowski
"Martin A. Mazur" <mx...@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:8f6gdv$u...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
> In article <8et71c$47b$1...@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>, "Jan Lewandowski"
<jlewan...@warsaw.com.pl> wrote:
> >
> >"Wiedz na pewno, ze nic nie bedziesz wiedzial na pewno"
> >jlewan...@warsaw.com.pl
> >
>
> My Polish is almost non-existent (I'm a 3rd generation American). Would
you
> please translate you .sig for me? Thanks.
>
> Marty.
Hi Marty
I see you have Polish surname. All right, I'll atempt translate this polish
phrase for you.
It may be difficult, because my english is not perfect, and because this
phrase is tricky to translate.
It phrase means: "Know for sure, you don't know anything for sure" or "Know
for sure, you don't know for sure anything"
"Know (wiedz) for sure (na pewno), you don't know anything (ze nigdy nie
bedziesz wiedzial nic) for sure (na pewno)"
I don't know whether my translate is comprehend for you.
Regards
Jan Lewandowski
"Wiedz na pewno, ze nigdy nie bedziesz wiedzial nic na pewno"
jlewan...@warsaw.com.pl
Martin A. Mazur
>
>"Martin A. Mazur" <mx...@psu.edu> wrote in message
>news:8f6gdv$u...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
>you
>> please translate you .sig for me? Thanks.
>>
>> Marty.
>
>
>Hi Marty
>I see you have Polish surname. All right, I'll atempt translate this polish
>phrase for you.
>It may be difficult, because my english is not perfect, and because this
>phrase is tricky to translate.
>
>It phrase means: "Know for sure, you don't know anything for sure" or "Know
>for sure, you don't know for sure anything"
>
>"Know (wiedz) for sure (na pewno), you don't know anything (ze nigdy nie
>bedziesz wiedzial nic) for sure (na pewno)"
>
>I don't know whether my translate is comprehend for you.
>
The translation is fine, thank you. It seems to be in the imperative mood.
There is a similar Spanish proverb (in the indicative mood):
"Yo solo se que no se nada."
or,
"I only know that I know nothing."
Jan Lewandowski
Yes, originally in Polish it is imperative mood.
> There is a similar Spanish proverb (in the indicative mood):
>
> "Yo solo se que no se nada."
So, I'm learning myself something about Spanish.
> or,
>
> "I only know that I know nothing."
>
> Marty.
Exactly, that is what it means. By the way, originally in Polish this sig
material is in future tense, but I think that translate it in English how I
did it (present tense), is up to date and ample.You always "know that you
know nothing, and you always will be".
I took out this phrase from title one of Polish novel-book which I had read
in childhood. This was my first child-book and when I was 5 my mother taught
me reading by this book, before I went to school (when I was 7). I still
remember and like this title, that's why I have used it. First lesson of
life "know, you know nothing". First wise lesson of child.
PS I was looking into your side about "Wigilia". Very nice. Congratulations.
Avi Jacobson
Are you, by any chance, related to the nineteenth-century Jewish
composer who shares your surname?
Avi
PS - Can you translate for us what you wrote to Rey? Not just
the .sig, but the whole thing? I gather that it was about his use of
vulgar Polish expressions, but since you posted it here, you might as
well explain your comments to the rest of us.
Cheers,
Avi
--
Avi Jacobson, Manager of Product Language Localization, Gallery Systems
A...@GallerySystems.com - (510) 652 8950, ext. 246
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Martin A. Mazur
>I took out this phrase from title one of Polish novel-book which I had read
>in childhood. This was my first child-book and when I was 5 my mother taught
>me reading by this book, before I went to school (when I was 7). I still
>remember and like this title, that's why I have used it. First lesson of
>life "know, you know nothing". First wise lesson of child.
Wow. Pretty "heavy" kiddie lit. (ObAUE: "heavy" = philosophically deep,
significant; "kiddie lit" = children's literature). Do you remember the name
and author of this book?
>
>PS I was looking into your side about "Wigilia". Very nice. Congratulations.
>
Thanks. I keep meaning to update that page. I have quite a few more recipes.
Simon R. Hughes
> In article <8f6qtk$f8o$1...@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>, "Jan Lewandowski"
> >
> >"Martin A. Mazur" <mx...@psu.edu> wrote in message
> >news:8f6gdv$u...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
> >> My Polish is almost non-existent (I'm a 3rd generation American). Would
> >you
> >> please translate you .sig for me? Thanks.
> >>
> >> Marty.
> >
> >
> >Hi Marty
> >I see you have Polish surname. All right, I'll atempt translate this polish
> >phrase for you.
> >It may be difficult, because my english is not perfect, and because this
> >phrase is tricky to translate.
> >
> >It phrase means: "Know for sure, you don't know anything for sure" or "Know
> >for sure, you don't know for sure anything"
> >
> >"Know (wiedz) for sure (na pewno), you don't know anything (ze nigdy nie
> >bedziesz wiedzial nic) for sure (na pewno)"
> >
> >I don't know whether my translate is comprehend for you.
> >
>
>
>
> "Yo solo se que no se nada."
>
>
> "I only know that I know nothing."
I think the Spaniards stole it from the Greeks. One Greek, anyway.
--
Simon R. Hughes -- http://sult.8m.no/
Quoting Usenet postings in follow-ups -- http://sult.8m.no/quote.html
K1912
[...]
>> "Yo solo se que no se nada."
>>
>> or,
>>
>> "I only know that I know nothing."
>
>I think the Spaniards stole it from the Greeks. One Greek, anyway.
>
Whose wife used to say, "And I only know that you know less than nothing!"
George
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Jan,
[...]
> Can you translate for us what you wrote to Rey? Not just
> the .sig, but the whole thing? I gather that it was about his use of
> vulgar Polish expressions, but since you posted it here, you might as
> well explain your comments to the rest of us.
[Jan Lewandowski wrote:]
A pewnie ze rozumiem. Choc czasem nie wiem czy Polak z Zydem sie w
ogole moze zrozumiec ? Czy to jakies aluzje do mnie z tym okresleniem
"beginnig student of angielski jezyk" ? Po co tez od razu byc wulgarnym
i uzywac slow "dupa" ? Ale jest pan Sir usprawiedliwiony, bo ja tu
jestem jedyny ktory rozumie po polsku ! Ja sie wiec nie licze !
Wulgaryzmy wiec dopuszczone ! Nawiasem mowiac, lubie wszystko co
zydowskie i wszystko co zydowskie jest specyficznie smieszne i mile.
Nawet pana lekcja hebrajskiego, Sir. Szydzic nie zamierzalem mistrzu.
Z calym szacunkiem
Milo bylo poznac
-----------------------
I've never studied Polish, but having lived with a Polish family in
Montréal, Canada, for several months and having a good Polish
dictionary, I could figure out about 75% of what Jan wrote. I didn't
understand some important sentences and the finer points, so I too would
be happy to see his translation.
One thing I learned: Polish written without diacritical marks makes
translating for a novice like me very difficult, because the words are
alphabetized differently -- depending on whether they have or lack the
diacritics -- and could mean something else.
While trying to translate, I uttered a steady stream of Polish
maledicta: Psiakrew! Kurwa! Cholera! Ja pierdole! Pizda! -- neat Polish
interjections I learned 43 years ago and still use when I don't want to
be understood.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman, Editor
MALEDICTA: The International Journal of Verbal Aggression
Santa Rosa, CA 95402, USA
Martin A. Mazur
>Thus Spake Martin A. Mazur:
>> There is a similar Spanish proverb (in the indicative mood):
>>
>>
>> or,
>>
>> "I only know that I know nothing."
>
>I think the Spaniards stole it from the Greeks. One Greek, anyway.
Yes. I was going to ask Jan whether the book he had read was, well, what?
This assertion (or something like it) was attributed to Socrates by Plato in
numerous places (Phaedrus, The Republic, the Apology, others). (And do they
really teach such radical skepticism to 5 year-olds in Poland? Maybe the
Greeks were right in giving old Soc the poisoned chalice for corrupting the
youth of Athens!) But, as we all know, Socrates had it wrong. For, to
paraphrase Arcesilaos, why stop there? Why not go all the way to the total,
self-refuting agnosticism inherent in the formulation "I know nothing, not
even that I know nothing." I have always had a visceral dislike for Socrates.
Not so much the philosophy, but the personality. Maybe it's just the way he
has come down to us. Maybe it was the BBC (I think) television play from the
50s (I think) about the trial of Socrates, where Socrates was played by Peter
Ustinov. I mean, the guy had a way of being a blowhard while pretending to let
others do the talking. He had a way of pretending to know nothing but not
being able to shut up about it.
Jan Lewandowski
> significant; "kiddie lit" = children's literature).
One thing I must you explain. This title wasn't refered to way of life
(agnosticism) but refered to the language. The title was irony for litle
polish learners as far as their language is concerned. As I know, any
language always not be fully-known even for his native spekakers. Everyone
still comes across new words, new phrases, etc.
For instant polish language has about 700 000 words and phrases, but native
polish speakers know "only" about "60 000" words and idiomatic expressions
which they still found in many domain their life: Newspapers, books, work,
TV, speaking, etc. Even so above mention 60 000 still isn't steady and they
still learn new words, phrase, untill death. So, they are learners of his
own language all life. [As far as english language is concerned I don't know
how many words is common known for its native speakers (by the way, this is
good question for this newsgroup, isn't it ?!)]. For everyone his language
is not ample and fully known for all life. I think, this was what "Socrates
sourced" creator of title child's book has in mind. "You never will know"
evrything in your language. This was like prompt to recognize your own
language, in order to everyone attempts to find out something new about his
language. There still be something new and something to learn, even if
someone is native speaker his language. This title seems to be very wise
even for children-learners of language. That's why I made up my mind to use
it as sig material.
Do you remember the name
> and author of this book?
Alas. Little yellow book, as it occured to me. I don't remember more.
> >PS I was looking into your side about "Wigilia". Very nice.
Congratulations.
> >
>
> Thanks. I keep meaning to update that page. I have quite a few more
recipes.
Nice to hear it.
Regards
Jan Lewandowski
> Marty.
Jan Lewandowski
"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:3917E9...@sonic.net...
> Avi Jacobson wrote:
>
> > Jan,
>
> [...]
>
> > Can you translate for us what you wrote to Rey? Not just
> > the .sig, but the whole thing? I gather that it was about his use of
> > vulgar Polish expressions, but since you posted it here, you might as
> > well explain your comments to the rest of us.
>
> [Jan Lewandowski wrote:]
>
> A pewnie ze rozumiem. Choc czasem nie wiem czy Polak z Zydem sie w
> ogole moze zrozumiec ? Czy to jakies aluzje do mnie z tym okresleniem
> "beginnig student of angielski jezyk" ? Po co tez od razu byc wulgarnym
> i uzywac slow "dupa" ? Ale jest pan Sir usprawiedliwiony, bo ja tu
> jestem jedyny ktory rozumie po polsku ! Ja sie wiec nie licze !
> Wulgaryzmy wiec dopuszczone ! Nawiasem mowiac, lubie wszystko co
> zydowskie i wszystko co zydowskie jest specyficznie smieszne i mile.
> Nawet pana lekcja hebrajskiego, Sir. Szydzic nie zamierzalem mistrzu.
>
> Z calym szacunkiem
>
> Milo bylo poznac
>
> -----------------------
>
> I've never studied Polish, but having lived with a Polish family in
> Montréal, Canada, for several months and having a good Polish
> dictionary, I could figure out about 75% of what Jan wrote.
This is a lot.
I didn't
> understand some important sentences and the finer points, so I too would
> be happy to see his translation.
Do the contest Rey (if you want). You will write what you don't understand,
then I explain what does it mean, and later you will translate it for us
public. Then I will tell you how good was your work. Do you want ? I'm very
curious what you don't understand.
> One thing I learned: Polish written without diacritical marks makes
> translating for a novice like me very difficult, because the words are
> alphabetized differently -- depending on whether they have or lack the
> diacritics -- and could mean something else.
> While trying to translate, I uttered a steady stream of Polish
> maledicta:
Psiakrew!
Some vulgar.
Kurwa!
Very vulgar expression. Please, don't use it Rey.
Cholera!
Some vugar
Ja pierdole!
Very vulgar !
Pizda!
Very vulgar.
-- neat Polish
> interjections I learned 43 years ago and still use when I don't want to
> be understood.
These aren't "neat interjections" Rey. You are wrong. My advise: You don't
use it near polish speakers, you will be told off and they will be pissed
off.
Regards
Jan Lewandowski
Jan Lewandowski
"Avi Jacobson" <A...@GallerySystems.com> wrote in message
news:8f75lp$tlb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Jan,
>
> Are you, by any chance, related to the nineteenth-century Jewish
> composer who shares your surname?
>
> Avi
Nice to meet You Avi.
Alas, even though it seems to be nice that I share his last name.
> PS - Can you translate for us what you wrote to Rey? Not just
> the .sig, but the whole thing? I gather that it was about his use of
> vulgar Polish expressions,
You have right. It was.
but since you posted it here, you might as
> well explain your comments to the rest of us.
You have right. I'm sorry for abuse newsgroup. I don't want use here Polish
(except sig material), since I entered here. This is my aim not do it,
because this is english speaking group. But I'm justified partly, because
Rey wrote first to me in Polish ("Czy pan rozumie ?"), so I comprehended he
wanted to conduct further discussion in Polish.
I have proposed Rey contest. He will atempt translate on his own what I
wrote. He already understand 75% what I wrote, so he may try translate rest.
I will help him, if something goes wrong or be not to do for him.
Regards
Jan Lewandowski
"Wiedz na pewno, ze nic nie bedziesz wiedzial na pewno"
D. Spencer Hines
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Leo Tolstoy On Firmly Held Beliefs and Resultant Mental Gridlock ---
"I know that most men --- not only those considered clever, but even
those who really are clever and capable of understanding the most
difficult scientific, mathematical or philosophic problems, can seldom
discern even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as
obliges them to admit the falsity of conclusions they have formed,
perhaps with great difficulty --- conclusions of which they are proud,
which they have taught to others, and on which they have built their
lives."
Leo Tolstoy [1896] --- Source: "What Is Art?" --- Leo Tolstoy,
Translated by Aylmer Maude, in Tolstoy's Collected Works, Charles
Scribner's Sons, (1902), Volume 19, p. 468
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
"Jan Lewandowski" <jlewan...@warsaw.com.pl> wrote in message
news:8f9qjq$1du$1...@sunsite.icm.edu.pl...
Robert Lieblich
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>
> "Jan Lewandowski" wrote:
> |
> | "Avi Jacobson" wrote:
> | > Jan,
> | >
> | > Are you, by any chance, related to the nineteenth-century Jewish
> | > composer who shares your surname?
> How about Wanda?
If DSH means the Polish keyboardist who almost single-handedly revived
the harpsichord, her surname was not "Lewandowski" but "Landowska."
Betcha DSH will claim he knew that all along and was just funning. But
then why did he omit his customary "<g>" if that's the case?
Martin A. Mazur
DSH made me do a double take, and I checked my copy of a recording of Wanda
Landowska doing some Scarlatti sonatas to make sure I was right.
There is another Polish composer or the earlier part of the last century with
a name similar to Jan's. She is Jadwiga Szajna-Lewandowska (1912-1994).
According to her bio at
http://www.usc.edu/dept/polish_music/essays/womenww.html, she "wrote five
compositions for orchestra and piano. Funerailles, for instance, was
orchestrated for piano, string orchestra, and percussion. Among her chamber
compositions is a Capriccio for clarinet and string quartet. She also
displayed interest in the ballet form, composing two children’s ballets
(Pinnochio, Abduction in Tiutiurlistan) and a 3 -act ballet, Tais
(1969). She has written a total of 50 pieces of stage music for puppet and
drama theaters. She received state awards for several of her compositions,
including: Three Jocular Songs to text by L.J. Kern for two voices, emale
choir, string quartet and percussion (1963), Ballet Suite for orchestra
(1966), and Gramy w Zielone to a text by W. Broniewski for choir/piano
(1970)."
P&D Schultz
>
> ABBOTT & COSTELLO LEARN HEBREW
> ===============================
> by Rabbi Jack Moline
This is nothing but an extrenmely tedious and unnecessarily prolix
version of the old Hebrew student maxim:
"Me" is who, "who" is he, "he" is she, and "dog" is fish.
//P. Schultz
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
(1) "Dog" is fish? Surely you meant _fish_ is "dog," to be consistent,
as Hebrew _dog_ does not mean English "fish." Tsk, tsk.
(2) Your Eminence forgot _ma_ is "what."
(3) Apparently, the original, extremely tedious and unnecessarily prolix
classic of American humor "Who's on First?" doesn't appeal to your
excessively blasé sense of humor either. Tough _skaton_.
(4) Because one of the meanings of _prolix_ is "wordy and tedious," your
characterization of Rabbi Moline's take-off as "extrenmely [sic] tedious
and unnecessarily prolix" is unnecessarily repetitive and verbose. Such
poor style by the Great Professor Dr. //P. Schultz, the know-it-all
stylist and pre-eminent language authoritarian. Tsk, tsk.
(5) I didn't write that piece; others and I just enjoyed it. Go argue
with its author, Rabbi Jack Moline.
(6) You have bragged repeatedly that you don't read my posts. What
happened? Killfile kaputt? Senior moment?
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman, Editor
Aaron J. Dinkin
wrote:
> P&D Schultz wrote:
>
> > "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
> > >
> > > ABBOTT & COSTELLO LEARN HEBREW
> > > ===============================
> > > by Rabbi Jack Moline
> > > etc etc
>
> > This is nothing but an extrenmely tedious and unnecessarily prolix
> > version of the old Hebrew student maxim:
> >
> > "Me" is who, "who" is he, "he" is she, and "dog" is fish.
>
> (1) "Dog" is fish? Surely you meant _fish_ is "dog," to be consistent,
> as Hebrew _dog_ does not mean English "fish." Tsk, tsk.
Yes it does. At least insofar as "dog" can be pronounced [dag], in some
dialects of English: "dag" [dag] is indeed the Hebrew word for 'fish'. The
Hebrew word for 'dog' is "kelev".
> (2) Your Eminence forgot _ma_ is "what."
That's not part of the maxim that P&D was quoting.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Benjamin Krefetz
> "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
>>
>> ABBOTT & COSTELLO LEARN HEBREW
>> ===============================
>> by Rabbi Jack Moline
>> etc etc
> This is nothing but an extrenmely tedious and unnecessarily prolix
> version of the old Hebrew student maxim:
> "Me" is who, "who" is he, "he" is she, and "dog" is fish.
I'd never heard the "dog" is fish part before, and as Aaron points out, that
only works in certain dialects which mostly aren't spoken by people under
50.
Ben
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> In article <392F6F...@sonic.net>, "Reinhold (Rey) Aman"
> <am...@sonic.net> wrote:
> > P&D Schultz wrote:
> > > "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ABBOTT & COSTELLO LEARN HEBREW
> > > > ===============================
> > > > by Rabbi Jack Moline
> > > > etc etc
> > > This is nothing but an extrenmely tedious and unnecessarily prolix
> > > version of the old Hebrew student maxim:
> > >
> > > "Me" is who, "who" is he, "he" is she, and "dog" is fish.
> > (1) "Dog" is fish? Surely you meant _fish_ is "dog," to be consistent,
> > as Hebrew _dog_ does not mean English "fish." Tsk, tsk.
> Yes it does. At least insofar as "dog" can be pronounced [dag], in some
> dialects of English: "dag" [dag] is indeed the Hebrew word for 'fish'.
> The Hebrew word for 'dog' is "kelev".
I'm touched by your attempt to wipe the egg off //P. Schultz's face.
But, regardless of your admirable camaraderie, the good Professor fucked
up. You know it; I know it; he knows it. To wit:
HEBREW ENGLISH
"me" who
"who" he
"he" she
"dog" fish <---- Schultz's embarrassing fuck-up
"fish" dog <---- correct
With your egg-wiping attempt, above, you are getting some of Schultz's
egg on your own face, Aaron, which is not a pretty sight. The various
*pronunciations* of English "dog" are irrelevant. Your flaccid defense
of Schultz's fuck-up was completely in vain.
While we're at it, I could also use your kind of Talmudic sophistry and
counter-argue that in some dialects of American English "dog" is
pronounced [dug]. I'm certain that you're familiar with the famous
article by Professor William Labov reporting that /aw/ is raised to /u/
in certain sections of New York City. Now, Avi or someone else who's a
native speaker of Modern Hebrew could find a Hebrew dialect term [dug]
meaning "butterfly" or "beaver" or whatever, but that would also be
irrelevant and of no use to get the egg off your faces.
Furthermore -- as long as I'm on a roll (not the Kaiser kind) -- your
additional information that the Hebrew word for "dog" is _kelev_ is also
irrelevant with regard to Schultz's fuck-up. Did you know that some
Israelis, especially those who hang around Arabs, call a "dog" not
_kelev_ but _kelb_ or _kalb_? "Irrelevant," you mumble into your
beard. Precisely. Just like your egg-wiping attempts above.
> > (2) Your Eminence forgot _ma_ is "what."
> That's not part of the maxim that P&D was quoting.
True, but you forgot that Professor //P. Schultz bitched about Rabbi
Moline's take-off, where Hebrew _ma_ meaning "what" appeared. Another
irrelevant and failed attempt to discredit my flawless deconstruction of
Schultz's pompous blather. Keep wiping.
Aaron, somehow you also forgot to find an excuse for Professor Schmutz's
dreadful style, pointed out in my retort. I wrote:
"(4) Because one of the meanings of _prolix_ is "wordy and tedious,"
your characterization of Rabbi Moline's take-off as "extrenmely [sic]
tedious and unnecessarily prolix" is unnecessarily repetitive and
verbose. Such poor style by the Great Professor Dr. //P. Schultz, the
know-it-all stylist and pre-eminent language authoritarian. Tsk, tsk."
Can you offer a reasonable defense of, or explanation for, his bombastic
abomination "extrenmely tedious and unnecessarily prolix"? Please use
your finest Talmudic hairsplitting, and I'll counter it with devastating
Jesuitical arguments.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Benjamin Krefetz
> Aaron J. Dinkin wrote:
> HEBREW ENGLISH
What are you talking about? The left column is the Hebrew pronunciations. The
right column is the English meanings. The Hebrew pronunciation corresponding to
the English 'dog' is "kelev", just as the Hebrew pronunciation corresponding
to the English 'who' is "me". I have no idea what you're trying to
accomplish by reversing things.
Ben
P&D Schultz
Well, obviously it's Rhine-whatever that has egg on his own face, as
usual. But this time he seems intent on smearing it all over himself
in front of everybody.
\\P. Schultz
P&D Schultz
Benjamin Krefetz wrote:
> > "Me" is who, "who" is he, "he" is she, and "dog" is fish.
>
> I'd never heard the "dog" is fish part before, and as Aaron points out, that
> only works in certain dialects which mostly aren't spoken by people under
> 50.
It was a joke. Maybe it wasn't a funny joke, but people kept telling
it anyways.
\\P. Schultz
P&D Schultz
>
> So Reinhold (Rey) Aman was all like:
> > Aaron J. Dinkin wrote:
>
> >> In article <392F6F...@sonic.net>, "Reinhold (Rey) Aman"
> >> <am...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> >> > P&D Schultz wrote:
>
> >> > > "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ABBOTT & COSTELLO LEARN HEBREW
> >> > > > ===============================
> >> > > > by Rabbi Jack Moline
> >> > > > etc etc
>
> >> > > This is nothing but an extrenmely tedious and unnecessarily prolix
> >> > > version of the old Hebrew student maxim:
> >> > >
>
> >> > as Hebrew _dog_ does not mean English "fish." Tsk, tsk.
>
> >> Yes it does. At least insofar as "dog" can be pronounced [dag], in some
> >> dialects of English: "dag" [dag] is indeed the Hebrew word for 'fish'.
> >> The Hebrew word for 'dog' is "kelev".
>
> > I'm touched by your attempt to wipe the egg off //P. Schultz's face.
> > But, regardless of your admirable camaraderie, the good Professor fucked
> > up. You know it; I know it; he knows it. To wit:
>
> > HEBREW ENGLISH
>
> > "me" who
> > "who" he
> > "he" she
> > "dog" fish <---- Schultz's embarrassing fuck-up
> > "fish" dog <---- correct
>
> What are you talking about? The left column is the Hebrew pronunciations. The
> right column is the English meanings. The Hebrew pronunciation corresponding to
> the English 'dog' is "kelev", just as the Hebrew pronunciation corresponding
> to the English 'who' is "me". I have no idea what you're trying to
> accomplish by reversing things.
The Rhine-man doesn't get it. But his confusion doesn't stop him from
accusing others of making an "embarrassing fuck-up."
He not only has egg all over his own face, but he seems intent on
smearing it all over his punim in front of everybody.
\\P. Schultz
Benjamin Krefetz
> In article <8gq4d6$v7e$3...@news.fas.harvard.edu>, Benjamin Krefetz
> <kre...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>> So P&D Schultz was all like:
>> > "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ABBOTT & COSTELLO LEARN HEBREW
>> >> ===============================
>> >> by Rabbi Jack Moline
>> >> etc etc
>>
>> > This is nothing but an extrenmely tedious and unnecessarily prolix
>> > version of the old Hebrew student maxim:
>>
>> > "Me" is who, "who" is he, "he" is she, and "dog" is fish.
>>
>> I'd never heard the "dog" is fish part before, and as Aaron points out, that
>> only works in certain dialects which mostly aren't spoken by people under
>> 50.
> ?? In virtually all American dialects, "dog" would be indistinguishable
> from Hebrew "dag". I'm not saying that they'd be phonetically identical,
> mind - just that the speakers of those dialects wouldn't make any
> distinction.
> I heard the maxim first from my father, who (like me) speaks one of the few
> dialects that make that distinction. Thus, what I heard was:
> Me is who, who is he, he is she, and "dag" is fish.
> I didn't quite understand why the last part was supposed to be funny.
Apologies. I forgot about American dialectical variation. It would work
either with New England or West Coast pronunciation and Ashkenazic
pronunciation for the Hebrew or with New York or Midwest pronunciation and
Sephardic pronunciation for the Hebrew. And I would imagine that your
father originally learned the Ashkenazic pronunciation and therefore it
would have made sense to him at the time.
Ben
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> The Rhine-man doesn't get it. But his confusion doesn't stop him from
> accusing others of making an "embarrassing fuck-up."
I'm always amazed when this schmuck Schmutz, who brags about not reading
my posts, somehow reads them anyway. Of course not to learn anything --
who could teach Dr. Know-it-all anything whatsoever? -- but to find
something to snipe at.
Slimy, gutless & backstabbing cacademic that he is, Professor Dr.
Schmutz always responds second-hand, piggy-backing his senile snarls
onto others' posts. This kind of character would have made an excellent
partisan in the war, shooting other soldiers in the back, because he's
too cowardly to face them.
Now, as far as his witty term "Rhine-man" is concerned, the Omniscient
One knows of course that "Rhine" is etymologically unrelated to the
first part of my name, "Reinhold," and that I'm geographically speaking
a "Danube-man" -- but what can you expect, wit-wise, from that witless
twit?
As far as the Hebrew mixup is concerned, I realized my mistake last
night after my long post to Aaron and after checking more Hebrew
dictionaries. So, Schmutz's "embarrassing fuck-up" does not apply to
this case but to his earlier and future fuck-ups, including his
embarrassing double fuck-up "Rhine-man."
Curiously, neither Dr. Schmutz nor his friends have made any mention of
or defended his embarrassing stylistic fuck-up: "This is nothing but an
extrenmely [sic] tedious and unnecessarily prolix version of the old
Hebrew student maxim...." This is ObAUE stuff, you know.
I wrote to Schmutz:
"(4) Because one of the meanings of _prolix_ is "wordy and tedious,"
your characterization of Rabbi Moline's take-off as "extrenmely [sic]
tedious and unnecessarily prolix" is unnecessarily repetitive and
verbose. Such poor style by the Great Professor Dr. //P. Schultz, the
know-it-all stylist and pre-eminent language authoritarian. Tsk, tsk."
Anyone wanna take a crack at cleaning *this* egg off Dr. Schmutz's
yellow face?
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Re: Hu's on First (Hebrew Lesson)
Author: P&D Schultz <schu...@erols.com>
Date: 2000/05/28
Forum: alt.usage.english
(Message 28 of 31 in this thread)
>Well, obviously it's Rhine-whatever that has egg on his own face, as
>usual. But this time he seems intent on smearing it all over himself
>in front of everybody.
>\\P. Schultz
"As usual" is cute. And surely, not in front of *everybody* -- hell,
I'm in more morons' killfiles than annoying Hines.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On the same day, a little later, schmucky Schmutz told Benjamin Krefetz
*again*:
Re: Hu's on First (Hebrew Lesson)
Author: P&D Schultz <schu...@erols.com>
Date: 2000/05/28
Forum: alt.usage.english
(Message 29 of 31 in this thread)
>The Rhine-man doesn't get it. But his confusion doesn't stop him
>from accusing others of making an "embarrassing fuck-up."
>He not only has egg all over his own face, but he seems intent
>on smearing it all over his punim in front of everybody.
>\\P. Schultz
"To make an embarrassing fuck-up" doesn't sound quite kosher to me. One
*commits* a fuck-up. "Make" is such a blah, pedestrian verb, the kind
of makeshift verb a recently deplaned Albanian immigrant would use, but
not a self-anointed Master of English Stylistics like Dr. Schmutz.
And that "He not only has egg all over his own face, but he seems intent
on smearing it all over his punim in front of everybody." Tsk, tsk. If
I were a university-educated native speaker of English like Dr. Schmutz,
I'd be ashamed of writing such an awful sentence for everybody to see.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben, I consider you an intelligent man with a fully functioning
short-term and long-term memory. Why do you think Dr. Schmutz treats
you like a senile geezer suffering from short-term memory loss who has
to be told the same stuff over and over?
Is Schmutz's short-term memory shot to hell?
And what's this oddity of that schmuck's chronic repetitiveness? First,
his repetitive messages to you. Then his "face-punim" repetition. And,
of course, his dreadful "tedious-prolix" repetition.
Should we worry? I do.
Ben, listen to an old man: Don't ever get into an argument with Schmutz
or try to top or embarrass him. You won't stand a chance. It's not
merely because he knows everything better than anyone else; it's his
razor-sharp wit and his rapier-like verbal stabs you have to fear.
That man is merciless. He'll tear you apart like a school of starving
pirañas. Look what he did to *me*, a battle-scarred veteran of
flame-fests: he devastated me with his savage sneer about having egg
smeared all over me, my face *and* my _punim_! That hurts, man.
That'll take a while to heal.
Thus, you'd better stay away from any confrontation with that
sarcophagous savage Schmutz. Always agree with him, acknowledge his
brilliant witticisms, admire his skill of mordant verbal aggression,
and, above all, marvel at his overbearing two-line pronunciamentos on
everything: Dr. Schmutz *knows*. You better believe it, Ben.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Avi Jacobson
P&D Schultz <schu...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>
> Benjamin Krefetz wrote:
> > > "Me" is who, "who" is he, "he" is she, and "dog" is fish.
> >
> > I'd never heard the "dog" is fish part before, and as Aaron points
out, that
> > only works in certain dialects which mostly aren't spoken by people
under
> > 50.
On the contrary: most of the West Coast pronounces English "dog"
precisely the way Modern Hebrew pronounces Hebrew "fish".
>
> It was a joke. Maybe it wasn't a funny joke, but people kept telling
> it anyways.
Of course they did. It works wonderfully. In Ashkenazic-accented
Hebrew, the word for "fish" (daleth qamas gimel) is pronounced [dOg] --
the way my father (who grew up in Philadelphia) pronounced English
<dog>. In Sephardic Hebrew (and Modern Hebrew), it's [dag] -- the way
my son (who is growing up in Berkeley) pronounces <dog>.
--
Avi Jacobson, Manager of Language Localization, Gallery Systems
Avi Jacobson
din...@fas.harvard.edu (Aaron J. Dinkin) wrote:
> Yes it does. At least insofar as "dog" can be pronounced [dag], in
some
> dialects of English: "dag" [dag] is indeed the Hebrew word
for 'fish'. The
> Hebrew word for 'dog' is "kelev".
Actually, the joke works incredibly well. The two pronunciations of
Hebrew /da:g/ (spelt daleth qamas gimel) -- [dag] by the Sephardis and
Israelis, and [dOg] by the Ashkenazis -- correspond perfectly to the
respective West Coast and East Coast US pronunciations of the
English "dog".