Maniacal

[Guy Barry]

Simon Mayo on BBC Radio 5 Live has just pronounced this like the word
"maniac" with the addition of "-al", i.e. MAY-nee-ack-uhl. I would always
stress on the second syllable and say muh-NYE-uh-kuhl, and my dictionary
knows no other pronunciation. (In ASCII IPA: /'meIni&k@l/ versus
/m@'naI@k@l/.) Has he just been misled by the spelling?

--
Guy Barry

[Steve Hayes]

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:42:43 -0000, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

I pronounce it in the same way that he does.



--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Joe Fineman]

The spelling is not misleading; it is just what one would expect.
However, his pronunciation does seem very much out of the way. Did he
do it more than once? I can imagine that he had read the word at
first as "maniac" & then hastily corrected it.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: The British are three insular peoples who have spread their :||
||: insularity over four continents. :||

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I say it the way you do.


--
athel

[Mike L]

I have difficulty with it. "Ti-TUM-ti-ti" is official but ugly, while
"TUM-ti-ti-ti" doesn't trip lightly off the tongue.

--
Mike.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Nov 16, 10:17 am, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:42:43 -0000, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk>

> wrote:
>
> >Simon Mayo on BBC Radio 5 Live has just pronounced this like the word
> >"maniac" with the addition of "-al", i.e. MAY-nee-ack-uhl.   I would always
> >stress on the second syllable and say muh-NYE-uh-kuhl, and my dictionary
> >knows no other pronunciation.  (In ASCII IPA: /'meIni&k@l/ versus
> >/m@'naI@k@l/.)  Has he just been misled by the spelling?
>
> I pronounce it in the same way that he does.

I don't remember ever hearing that. I pronounce it the way Guy does.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Eric Walker]

Probably. I have never heard (or used) any pronunciation other than the
one you use; and the American Heritage Dictionary (5th ed) shows only
that pronunciation.

--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[annily]

I'm with you on this one. I don't think I've ever heard Mr. Mayo's
pronunciation.

[Guy Barry]

"Joe Fineman" wrote in message news:uwqxlq...@verizon.net...

> The spelling is not misleading; it is just what one would expect.
> However, his pronunciation does seem very much out of the way. Did he
> do it more than once? I can imagine that he had read the word at
> first as "maniac" & then hastily corrected it.

I think he only said it once, and I'm fairly sure it was in improvised
speech rather than scripted comments, but I've forgotten the precise
context. I may check later.

--
Guy Barry

[Joe Fineman]

Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:

> I have difficulty with it. "Ti-TUM-ti-ti" is official but ugly,
> while "TUM-ti-ti-ti" doesn't trip lightly off the tongue.

English, in general, is averse to having three completely unstressed
syllables in a row. Note the various contortions we have gone thru in
order to avoid that in "laboratory": /'labr@,tori/, /le'bor@trI/,
etc.

--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: Old enough to know better; young enough to do it anyway. :||

[Robert Bannister]

On 18/11/12 6:26 AM, Joe Fineman wrote:
> Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>
>> I have difficulty with it. "Ti-TUM-ti-ti" is official but ugly,
>> while "TUM-ti-ti-ti" doesn't trip lightly off the tongue.
>
> English, in general, is averse to having three completely unstressed
> syllables in a row. Note the various contortions we have gone thru in
> order to avoid that in "laboratory": /'labr@,tori/, /le'bor@trI/,
> etc.
>

There are number of words (especially in southern England) that are
given first syllable stress by some, leaving three or more unstressed
syllables to mess with. I think Guy has mentioned he has this
pronunciation, though I've forgotten the actual examples -
I find "CON-tri-bu-ting" strange enough since I was brought up on
"con-TRI-bu-ting", but there we are: we do not all speak the same way.

--
Robert Bannister

[Guy Barry]

"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:agtkmd...@mid.individual.net...

> There are number of words (especially in southern England) that are given
> first syllable stress by some, leaving three or more unstressed syllables
> to mess with. I think Guy has mentioned he has this pronunciation, though
> I've forgotten the actual examples -
> I find "CON-tri-bu-ting" strange enough since I was brought up on
> "con-TRI-bu-ting", but there we are: we do not all speak the same way.

No, I don't say "CON-tri-bu-ting", though I hear it often enough. I persist
with second-syllable stress on that one.

--
Guy Barry

[James Hogg]

"Manic" is much easier.

--
James

[Mike L]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:35:43 +0100, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:

I'm reminded that I say "HOSPitable" without difficulty; and I've just
looked, and find that OED lists no other metre for it. The entry
hasn't been revised, fully or at all, since 1899, though, and COD9
prefers "hoSPITable".

--
Mike.

[Robert Bannister]

What irritates with that particular one (along with "distributed") is
that the "but" gets a secondary stress which can make it come out like
an ignorant "con-tri-BUT-ing". Often heard on TV.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

But I never know whether that is pronounced "main-ic" or "mann-ic". The
second, which I guess to be correct, seems so far removed from "mania".

--
Robert Bannister

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:13:18 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
wrote:

I say MAN-ic, but MAIN-iacal.

Though I must confess that they only place I have ever seen "maniacal" is in
Rogue, an early computer game, in which reading a certain kind of scroll
causes maniacal laughter to be heard in the distance.

[Guy Barry]

"Mike L" wrote in message
news:e6dla8lavuft3q3p7...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:35:43 +0100, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
> wrote:

> >"Manic" is much easier.

"Manic" isn't synonymous with "maniacal". "Manic" means "affected by
mania", whereas "maniacal" means "in the manner of a maniac". I can utter a
maniacal laugh without being in a manic state.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Robert Bannister" wrote in message news:ah03pe...@mid.individual.net...

Definitely "manic" - I've never heard a long "a". Cf. "panic".

--
Guy Barry

[R H Draney]

Steve Hayes filted:

>
>On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:13:18 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 19/11/12 11:35 PM, James Hogg wrote:
>
>>> "Manic" is much easier.
>>>
>>
>>But I never know whether that is pronounced "main-ic" or "mann-ic". The
>>second, which I guess to be correct, seems so far removed from "mania".
>
>I say MAN-ic, but MAIN-iacal.
>
>Though I must confess that they only place I have ever seen "maniacal" is in
>Rogue, an early computer game, in which reading a certain kind of scroll
>causes maniacal laughter to be heard in the distance.

Is anything *other* than laughter ever described as "maniacal"?...r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Guy Barry]

"Steve Hayes" wrote in message
news:cv3ma8514q53u0s8o...@4ax.com...

> I say MAN-ic, but MAIN-iacal.

I can't find any support for stressing "maniacal" on the first syllable.
How often have you heard it spoken that way?

> Though I must confess that they only place I have ever seen "maniacal" is
> in
> Rogue, an early computer game, in which reading a certain kind of scroll
> causes maniacal laughter to be heard in the distance.

Trust me, it sounds much more maniacal if you stress it on the second
syllable.

--
Guy Barry

[James Hogg]

This all depends on which dictionary you consult. COD has two senses for
"manic"; the first is the one you give, the second is "showing wild
excitement and energy", which is very close to the first sense given for
"maniac": "a person exhibiting extremely wild or violent behaviour".

In my idolect "manic" can be synonymous with "maniacal".

--
James

[CDB]

On 20/11/2012 3:39 AM, R H Draney wrote:
> Steve Hayes filted:

>> Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>> James Hogg wrote:

>>>> "Manic" is much easier.

>>> But I never know whether that is pronounced "main-ic" or "mann-ic". The
>>> second, which I guess to be correct, seems so far removed from "mania".

>> I say MAN-ic, but MAIN-iacal.

>> Though I must confess that they only place I have ever seen "maniacal" is in
>> Rogue, an early computer game, in which reading a certain kind of scroll
>> causes maniacal laughter to be heard in the distance.

> Is anything *other* than laughter ever described as "maniacal"?...r

Gestures, grimaces, energy, enthusiasm? I'm sure I've seen "glee".

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:45:33 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <cv3ma8514q53u0s8o...@4ax.com>

> Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:13:18 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>>On 19/11/12 11:35 PM, James Hogg wrote:
>
>>>> "Manic" is much easier.
>>>>
>>>
>>>But I never know whether that is pronounced "main-ic" or "mann-ic". The
>>>second, which I guess to be correct, seems so far removed from "mania".
>
>> I say MAN-ic, but MAIN-iacal.
>

>m??n??k?l

??

>>Though I must confess that they only place I have ever seen "maniacal"
>>is in Rogue, an early computer game, in which reading a certain kind of
>>scroll causes maniacal laughter to be heard in the distance.
>

>Watch Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

Dies it have a laugh track?

[James Silverton]

I too would probably rhyme "manic" with "panic". I wonder just how many
people have ever heard a maniac laughing? I certainly haven't tho' I can
guess at what is meant.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[fabzorba]

On 20 Nov, 19:06, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> "Mike L"  wrote in message
>
> news:e6dla8lavuft3q3p7...@4ax.com...
>

> > On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:35:43 +0100, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com>

> > wrote:
> > >"Manic" is much easier.
>
> "Manic" isn't synonymous with "maniacal".  "Manic" means "affected by
> mania", whereas "maniacal" means "in the manner of a maniac".  I can utter a
> maniacal laugh without being in a manic state.
>

And how! I've seen it on YouTube. Why are you wearing that helmet
though?

[fabzorba]

I think "dancing'' would be number two, but by a long distance, and
then "rage''

Btw, I say the words as man-ik, and man-eye-akl

[Jerry Friedman]

On Nov 20, 1:39 am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Steve Hayes filted:

...

> >Though I must confess that they only place I have ever seen "maniacal" is in
> >Rogue, an early computer game, in which reading a certain kind of scroll
> >causes maniacal laughter to be heard in the distance.
>
> Is anything *other* than laughter ever described as "maniacal"?...r

This question can be answered. At COCA, the most common collocates
include

LAUGHTER 16
EYES 13
LAUGH 11
GRIN 6
CACKLE 3
DEVOTION 3
QUEST 3
PURSUIT 3
DETAILS 3
SONG 3
VISION 3

I've omitted some that seemed irrelevant, such as DENNIS and HOPPER.

--
Jerry Friedman

[JNugent]

On 16/11/2012 15:42, Guy Barry wrote:

> Simon Mayo on BBC Radio 5 Live has just pronounced this like the word
> "maniac" with the addition of "-al", i.e. MAY-nee-ack-uhl. I would always
> stress on the second syllable and say muh-NYE-uh-kuhl, and my dictionary
> knows no other pronunciation. (In ASCII IPA: /'meIni&k@l/ versus
> /m@'naI@k@l/.) Has he just been misled by the spelling?

No. He was misled by his own ignorance.

Perhaps he would also pronounce "ascertain" with the stress on the second
syllable.

[Robert Bannister]

When you think about, that is a strange one. I wonder if the final
syllable stress came about in order to distinguish it from "a certain",
though I find it hard to imagine an instance where they could be confused.

--
Robert Bannister

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:42:36 +0000, JNugent <jenni...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On 16/11/2012 15:42, Guy Barry wrote:
>
>> Simon Mayo on BBC Radio 5 Live has just pronounced this like the word
>> "maniac" with the addition of "-al", i.e. MAY-nee-ack-uhl. I would always
>> stress on the second syllable and say muh-NYE-uh-kuhl, and my dictionary
>> knows no other pronunciation. (In ASCII IPA: /'meIni&k@l/ versus
>> /m@'naI@k@l/.) Has he just been misled by the spelling?
>
>No. He was misled by his own ignorance.

In which case his ignorance must be widespread, because I con't recall hearing
it pronounced any other way.

>Perhaps he would also pronounce "ascertain" with the stress on the second
>syllable.

As opposed to the first?

I don't see the relevasnce, as I've only heard "ascertain" pronounced with the
stress on the last syllable, never on the first like "maniacal".

[Guy Barry]

"Steve Hayes" wrote in message

news:5d6ra81onosk9jn0e...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:42:36 +0000, JNugent <jenni...@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:

[BBC Radio presenter stressing "maniacal" on first syllable]

> >No. He was misled by his own ignorance.

> In which case his ignorance must be widespread, because I con't recall
> hearing
> it pronounced any other way.

You seem to be on your own in this thread. Maybe South Africa has its own
pronunciation.

--
Guy Barry

[fabzorba]

This is very odd I think. I just CANNOT see how "maniacal details"
could supercede "maniacal rage" and "maniacal dancing", neither of
which gain a mention. And the fact that the last 7 (!) entries have
barely three occurences each suggests something is wrong here.

[Jerry Friedman]

Sorry, I didn't do the search right. Those were words that often
occur near "maniacal". Here are results for the next word after
"maniacal", limited to those that occur more than once:

LAUGHTER 13
LAUGH 11
ABOUT 7
GRIN 6
EYES 4
CACKLE 3
QUEST 3
PURSUIT 3
WORK 3
PSYCHOPATH 2
MADMAN 2
MIND-SET 2
DEVOTION 2
SCHEME 2
KILLER 2
COMMITMENT 2
INTELLIGENCE 2
OFFICER 2
STUFF 2
ATTENTION 2
VOICE 2

There's one hit for "rage" and one for "rages", but nothing for any
form of "dance".

Yes, people have used "maniacal madman" and "maniacal psychopath".
Both instances of the latter were from a guest on /Geraldo/.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Steve Hayes]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 07:44:15 -0000, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

As you seem to be on your own in the Dio-seize thread.

[Andrew B.]

On Thursday, November 22, 2012 3:45:49 PM UTC, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>
> Yes, people have used "maniacal madman" and "maniacal psychopath".

Apropos of which, another pronunciation on Radio 5 surprised me yesterday: "psychopathy" as "sie-COP-athy". I was even more surprised to find that both my dictionaries agree with the speaker - maybe I've never heard the word spoken before...

[Guy Barry]

"Steve Hayes" wrote in message

news:vhusa89adt4f29lmk...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 07:44:15 -0000, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrote:

> >You seem to be on your own in this thread. Maybe South Africa has its
> >own
> >pronunciation.

> As you seem to be on your own in the Dio-seize thread.

Well, I admit there's a certain logic to pronouncing "maniacal" the same way
as "maniac". Which is more than can be said for the other case.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Andrew B." wrote in message
news:70c9875e-4142-48f0...@googlegroups.com...

> Apropos of which, another pronunciation on Radio 5 surprised me yesterday:
> "psychopathy" as "sie-COP-athy".

On the rare occasions I've heard it, that's been the pronunciation. Cf.
"telepathy" and other words ending in "-opathy" - "neuropathy",
"encephalopathy" and so on. They tend to be specialized medical usages.

> I was even more surprised to find that both my dictionaries agree with the
> speaker - maybe I've never heard the word spoken before...

I suppose you hear "psychopath" at lot more often than "psychopathy", but it
seems to be a consistent pattern.

--
Guy Barry