how do you pronounce "Sentient" ?

[ttexas...@gmail.com]

I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"

Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2017-05-06 04:03:13 +0000, ttexas...@gmail.com said:

> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>
> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT

On the rare occasions when I pronounce it at all I say ['sentɪjənt],
which I suppose is what you mean by SEN-TEE-ENT (is that the best you
can do to represent pronunciation?). However, the only pronunciation
the Concise Oxford Dictionary gives is ['sentʃənt], so one can hardly
call it wrong. In any case, surely there are more important things to
get hot under the collar about?

--
athel

[ttexas...@gmail.com]

On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 9:03:17 PM UTC-7, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>
> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT

well it seems this was already discussed in 2014
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.usage.english/6pDqfIvf0mc

[Harrison Hill]

Patronising nonsense.

"On the rare occasions when I pronounce it at all I say ['sentɪjənt]"

I have no idea what that means because it isn't English.

"...which I suppose is what you mean by SEN-TEE-ENT..."

Which *is* English. Then more patronising bollocks:

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, May 6, 2017 at 12:10:43 PM UTC-4, Harrison Hill wrote:
> On Saturday, 6 May 2017 08:09:50 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2017-05-06 04:03:13 +0000, ttexas...@gmail.com said:

> > > I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
> > > Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
> > On the rare occasions when I pronounce it at all I say ['sentɪjənt],
> > which I suppose is what you mean by SEN-TEE-ENT (is that the best you
> > can do to represent pronunciation?). However, the only pronunciation
> > the Concise Oxford Dictionary gives is ['sentʃənt], so one can hardly
> > call it wrong. In any case, surely there are more important things to
> > get hot under the collar about?
>
> Patronising nonsense.
>
> "On the rare occasions when I pronounce it at all I say ['sentɪjənt]"
>
> I have no idea what that means because it isn't English.
>
> "...which I suppose is what you mean by SEN-TEE-ENT..."
>
> Which *is* English. Then more patronising bollocks:

Which is anti-intellectual obscurantism. Phonetics are discussed using phonetic notation.

> (is that the best you can do to represent pronunciation?).
> However, the only pronunciation the Concise Oxford
> Dictionary gives is ['sentʃənt], so one can hardly
> call it wrong. In any case, surely there are more
> important things to get hot under the collar about?

You would probably want the COD to have spelled their listing as "SEN-chunt."
Is that actually how you pronounce it?

[Harrison Hill]

No. You are showing again (as others have observed) that
you don't read, or if you do read you don't understand.

The OP's "sen-tee-ent" will do me because it is written
in English.

[CDB]

On 5/6/2017 12:03 AM, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:

[Re: how do you pronounce "Sentient" ?]

> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"

> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT

Qualified agreement. I say "SENtyint"; but most people here in Ontario
say it the way you don't like.

How do you feel about "nawshus" for "nauseous"? It's the same sound
change, the assimilation or partial assimilation of a following "y"
sound to a "t", "d", or "s".

[Peter T. Daniels]

"the only pronunciation the Concise Oxford Dictionary gives is (SEN-chunt), so

one can hardly call it wrong."

Please don't write inconsistent statements -- at least, not in the very same message.

It is not I who "does not read/understand."

[John Varela]

On Sat, 6 May 2017 04:03:13 UTC, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>
> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT

Am I right that your question is, two syllables or three?

I pronounce it with two syllables: sen-chent.

--
John Varela

[ttexas...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, May 6, 2017 at 11:32:10 AM UTC-7, CDB wrote:

no problem going from s to sh. They seem related. To go from a hard T to sh makes it sound like a totally different word to me.

[ttexas...@gmail.com]

well actually I was struck by the T vs sh sound but I see the difference also seems to affect the syllables which further widens the gap between two pronunciations which are supposed to mean the same thing but sound very different.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

I would say it with a T rather than sh. However that does set the
pronunciation apart from that in: attention, relation, completion,
fruition, munition, protection, detention, option, oration, potential,
essential, etc.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Will Parsons]

There are at least two levels of assimilation involved here, one is a purely
English one that tends to assimilate [sj] to [ʃ], so words such as you cited
go from (e.g.) *[əˈtɛnsjən] to [əˈtɛnʃən]. But why is (or was) the T in
these words pronounced as [s] at all?

That goes back to a rule in Late Latin that (with certain exceptions) [t]
before [i]+vowel in unaccented syllables assibilated to [ts], so the Latin
form upon which "attention" is based would be pronounced [attɛntsio]. [ts]
was also the reflex of "soft" C, and when [ts] further simplified to [s]
through much of the Neo-Latin speaking area (most importantly, France), it
happened with both soft C and assibilated T.

So, the softening of [t] to [s] (and thence to [ʃ]) in "sentient" is in fact
perfectly regular - [sɛnʃənt].

(In addition, there is in many dialects a tendency to insert a [t] in the
sequences [ns] and [nʃ], leading to forms like [sɛnʧənt].)

--
Will

[ttexas...@gmail.com]

On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 9:03:17 PM UTC-7, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>
> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT

According to MW..
Origin and Etymology of sentient
Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel

First Known Use: 1632

So I believe the original and correct pronunciation should be with the T.

My guess is most who pronounce it wrong have read the word and having never heard it pronounced correctly, guessed it wrong based on pronunciations of similar spelled words like patient, quotient, and we end up with an ugly bastardizatoin of a nice word.

[grabber]

On 5/7/2017 6:53 PM, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 9:03:17 PM UTC-7, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>>
>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
>
> According to MW..
> Origin and Etymology of sentient
> Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel
>
> First Known Use: 1632
>
> So I believe the original and correct pronunciation should be with the T.
>
> My guess is most who pronounce it wrong

Supposing we did know for certain how classical Latin was pronounced,
would it follow that it would be a reliable guide to how English words
derived from Latin roots must be pronounced? Does a similar principle
apply to words entering the language from, say, French? What about words
coming down from Old English?

> have read the word and having never heard it pronounced correctly, guessed it wrong based on pronunciations of similar spelled words like patient,

That can be traced back to classical Latin patient-, patiēns

> quotient,

quotiens, quotiēs

> and we end up with an ugly bastardizatoin of a nice word.

I can't say it bothers me.

[Garrett Wollman]

How about Bob McDonald's "GAY-shus" for <gaseous> (standard
/'g&si@s/, alt. /'g&S@s/)?

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wol...@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

[Neill Massello]

<ttexas...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>
> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT

Another one like that is "consortium". Does it rhyme with "nasturtium"?

[grabber]

The OED says it can, though I've never heard it.

[grabber]

On 5/6/2017 6:46 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Saturday, May 6, 2017 at 12:10:43 PM UTC-4, Harrison Hill wrote:
>> On Saturday, 6 May 2017 08:09:50 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2017-05-06 04:03:13 +0000, ttexas...@gmail.com said:
>
>>>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>>>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
>>> On the rare occasions when I pronounce it at all I say ['sentɪjənt],
>>> which I suppose is what you mean by SEN-TEE-ENT (is that the best you
>>> can do to represent pronunciation?). However, the only pronunciation
>>> the Concise Oxford Dictionary gives is ['sentʃənt], so one can hardly
>>> call it wrong. In any case, surely there are more important things to
>>> get hot under the collar about?
>>
>> Patronising nonsense.
>>
>> "On the rare occasions when I pronounce it at all I say ['sentɪjənt]"
>>
>> I have no idea what that means because it isn't English.
>>
>> "...which I suppose is what you mean by SEN-TEE-ENT..."
>>
>> Which *is* English. Then more patronising bollocks:
>
> Which is anti-intellectual obscurantism. Phonetics are discussed using phonetic notation.

They can be, but the OP's renditions were adequate to communicate the
distinction they wanted to discuss.

[John Varela]

Your examples are all in -tion or -tian. This is -tient.

The only word ending in -tient other than sentient that I can come
up with offhand is "patient". Does anyone pronounce that with more
than one syllable?

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

Ooh! I missed quotient when I went thru the alphabet.

So sen-shent is according to you an ugly word. Do you therefore
consider patient and quotient to be ugly words? If not, why not?

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

Not really, because the stressed vowels differ, but the -tium parts
can be the same, or nearly so.

--
John Varela

[Peter T. Daniels]

HH wasn't commenting on OP's respelling. He was complaining about Athel's
perfectly appropriate use of more precise symbols. Though Athel's use of
Unicode-supplied IPA is rather pretentious, given the ASCII-IPA standard
that has prevailed in this newsgroup for decades.

[grabber]

I thought it was more a reaction against Athel's, rather pointed, "is

that the best you can do to represent pronunciation?"

By all means let the OP learn a better way of representing phonetics,
but that is not IMHO the significant weakness in their (or, being
realistic, his) position.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

There is also "quotient".

[ttexas...@gmail.com]

I don't have a problem with patient or quotient. They both are easy to pronounce and there is no ambiguity to say it this way or that way. With sentient, the t version is easier to say, and any contrived push to say it with sh rather than the clean easy to say t version is annoying to me. It is very unusual to go with sh immediately after a consonant. It just doesn't work.

[CDB]

On 5/7/2017 3:08 PM, Garrett Wollman wrote:

> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:

>> [Re: how do you pronounce "Sentient" ?]

>>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"

>>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO!
>>> SEN-TEE-ENT

>> Qualified agreement. I say "SENtyint"; but most people here in
>> Ontario say it the way you don't like.

>> How do you feel about "nawshus" for "nauseous"? It's the same
>> sound change, the assimilation or partial assimilation of a
>> following "y" sound to a "t", "d", or "s".

> How about Bob McDonald's "GAY-shus" for <gaseous> (standard
> /'g&si@s/, alt. /'g&S@s/)?

I was using ordinary spellings because I didn't think the OP would know
ERK IPA*, but it's a matter of sounds, of course. As I say it, the "e"
in "gaseous" (of which I'm pleased to learn I have something like the
standard pronunciation) is pronounced like the "i" in "sentient". For
me that's [j]; apparently for some others it's [i], and still others
assimilate it to the consonant.

Thinking about my pronunciation, which varies between assimilation and
separate articulation, I suspect it may depend on my belief, probably
not always correct, about whether the word passed through French or came
directly from Latin.

*Couldn't think of the real name. I wonder how Sal is doing these days.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 5:20:05 PM UTC-4, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 12:57:56 PM UTC-7, John Varela wrote:
> > On Sun, 7 May 2017 17:53:22 UTC, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 9:03:17 PM UTC-7, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > > I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
> > > > Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
> > > According to MW..
> > > Origin and Etymology of sentient
> > > Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel
> > > First Known Use: 1632
> > > So I believe the original and correct pronunciation should be with the T.
> > > My guess is most who pronounce it wrong have read the word and having never heard it pronounced correctly, guessed it wrong based on pronunciations of similar spelled words like patient, quotient, and we end up with an ugly bastardizatoin of a nice word.
> > Ooh! I missed quotient when I went thru the alphabet.
> > So sen-shent is according to you an ugly word. Do you therefore
> > consider patient and quotient to be ugly words? If not, why not?
>

> I don't have a problem with patient or quotient. They both are easy to pronounce and there is no ambiguity to say it this way or that way. With sentient, the t version is easier to say, and any contrived push to say it with sh rather than the clean easy to say t version is annoying to me. It is very unusual to go with sh immediately after a consonant. It just doesn't work.

Can you insure that your conscience lets you claim that, or will some prevention kick in?

[bill van]

In article <821f613a-ccaf-4677...@googlegroups.com>,

ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 12:57:56 PM UTC-7, John Varela wrote:
> > On Sun, 7 May 2017 17:53:22 UTC, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 9:03:17 PM UTC-7, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
> > > >
> > > > Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
> > >
> > > According to MW..
> > > Origin and Etymology of sentient
> > > Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive,
> > > feel
> > >
> > > First Known Use: 1632
> > >
> > > So I believe the original and correct pronunciation should be with the T.
> > >
> > > My guess is most who pronounce it wrong have read the word and having
> > > never heard it pronounced correctly, guessed it wrong based on
> > > pronunciations of similar spelled words like patient, quotient, and we
> > > end up with an ugly bastardizatoin of a nice word.
> >
> > Ooh! I missed quotient when I went thru the alphabet.
> >
> > So sen-shent is according to you an ugly word. Do you therefore
> > consider patient and quotient to be ugly words? If not, why not?
>

> I don't have a problem with patient or quotient. They both are easy to
> pronounce and there is no ambiguity to say it this way or that way. With
> sentient, the t version is easier to say, and any contrived push to say it
> with sh rather than the clean easy to say t version is annoying to me. It is
> very unusual to go with sh immediately after a consonant. It just doesn't
> work.

Some people have a penchant for making it work.
--
bill

[Robert Bannister]

On 6/5/17 12:03 pm, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>
> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
>

Mainly I've heard "sen-see-ent" or "sen-shee-ent" (last syllable more
like "unt", but not quite). I do hear a heavily palatalised t*
occasionally, but never a full t.

* which sounds more like heavy aspiration

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Robert Bannister]

Since English spelling is extremely ambiguous in the sounds it
represents, I would say that it is impossible to represent anything but
the simplest sounds in "English". Of course, that doesn't stop me from
trying every now and then, but I don't complain about the use of IPA.

[Peter Moylan]

On 2017-May-08 05:08, Garrett Wollman wrote:
> In article <oel4r6$1d0c$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/6/2017 12:03 AM, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> [Re: how do you pronounce "Sentient" ?]
>>
>>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>>
>>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
>>
>> Qualified agreement. I say "SENtyint"; but most people here in Ontario
>> say it the way you don't like.
>>
>> How do you feel about "nawshus" for "nauseous"? It's the same sound
>> change, the assimilation or partial assimilation of a following "y"
>> sound to a "t", "d", or "s".
>
> How about Bob McDonald's "GAY-shus" for <gaseous> (standard
> /'g&si@s/, alt. /'g&S@s/)?

Goodness gacious me!

Everyone I know pronounces it in much the same way as Gaseous Glay.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Robert Bannister]

On 6/5/17 5:07 pm, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 9:03:17 PM UTC-7, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:

>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>>
>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
>

> well it seems this was already discussed in 2014
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.usage.english/6pDqfIvf0mc
>

I don't remember that thread at all even though it appears I
participated with some comment that I no longer understand.

[Robert Bannister]

On 7/5/17 2:32 am, CDB wrote:
> On 5/6/2017 12:03 AM, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> [Re: how do you pronounce "Sentient" ?]
>

>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>
>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
>

> Qualified agreement. I say "SENtyint"; but most people here in Ontario
> say it the way you don't like.
>
> How do you feel about "nawshus" for "nauseous"? It's the same sound
> change, the assimilation or partial assimilation of a following "y"
> sound to a "t", "d", or "s".
>
>

That has a z or (more rarely a) zh sound in my English.

[Robert Bannister]

How do you say "quotient", "station", etc.?

[Peter Moylan]

On 2017-May-08 05:53, John Varela wrote:

> The only word ending in -tient other than sentient that I can come
> up with offhand is "patient". Does anyone pronounce that with more
> than one syllable?

ITYM "more than two syllables".

[Robert Bannister]

On 8/5/17 1:53 am, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 9:03:17 PM UTC-7, ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>>
>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
>
> According to MW..
> Origin and Etymology of sentient
> Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel
>
> First Known Use: 1632
>
> So I believe the original and correct pronunciation should be with the T.

As has already been pointed out, the Latin in use at the time the word
was borrowed did not use a T in front of i, so your belief is
ill-founded. I thought we had borrowed it from French, in which case s
would be expected.

>
> My guess is most who pronounce it wrong have read the word and having never heard it pronounced correctly, guessed it wrong based on pronunciations of similar spelled words like patient, quotient, and we end up with an ugly bastardizatoin of a nice word.
>

[Peter T. Daniels]

Now there, I do have a [tS].

[Richard Yates]

I don't see (feel) it that way. The sloppy "sh" is always less work
than a precisely pointed "t". Generally fricatives require less
coordination than the timing of plosives (milliseconds make "t"
distinct from "d"). Consider that a standard trope of drunk speech is
to slur "t"s to "sh"s.

>It is very unusual to go with sh immediately after a consonant. It just doesn't work.

It works fine and is common. You use it every day. Censure, conscious,
licentious, stanchion, pension, tension, onshore, etc. and those are
just ones after "n".

[ttexas...@gmail.com]

ok, I take that back. Succumbed to a bit of confirmation bias there..

[ttexas...@gmail.com]

Yes, I have experienced this phenomena. It is rather unsettling. More common when writing source code but it's still the same "huh? I wrote that..? hmm hahaha

[Richard Tobin]

In article <be3vgchq1nseftl3a...@4ax.com>,

Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>>The only word ending in -tient other than sentient that I can come
>>up with offhand is "patient". Does anyone pronounce that with more
>>than one syllable?

>There is also "quotient".

And "totient", as in "Euler's totient function".

-- Richard

[Peter Moylan]

On the TV news this evening I heard "consortium" pronounced with a [S].
Normally I hear it with the full four syllables and a [t].

But then, just a few sentences later, the same newsreader used singular
"criteria", so perhaps her English was a bit weak.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 5/7/17 1:09 PM, Neill Massello wrote:
> <ttexas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>>
>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
>

> Another one like that is "consortium". Does it rhyme with "nasturtium"?

The normal American pronunciation (in my experience) ends like
"nasturtium". M-W lists the "sh" pronunciation first, by the way, but
AHD lists the "t" pronunciation first.

I definitely say "tritium" with a "t" but "lutetium", if I were ever to
mention it, with a "sh". At this point I have no idea how I say
"strontium".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

She's wouldn't be to blame for "criteria" if she was reading what
someone else had written (typed/keyed-in).

[Jerry Friedman]

How do they pronounce "Cassius"? Around here he was sometimes called
"Cassius the brashest".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Mon, 08 May 2017 14:54:38 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 08 May 2017 21:04:23 +1000, Peter Moylan
><pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2017-May-08 17:42, Richard Tobin wrote:
>>> In article <be3vgchq1nseftl3a...@4ax.com>,
>>> Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The only word ending in -tient other than sentient that I can come
>>>>> up with offhand is "patient". Does anyone pronounce that with more
>>>>> than one syllable?
>>>
>>>> There is also "quotient".
>>>
>>> And "totient", as in "Euler's totient function".
>>
>>On the TV news this evening I heard "consortium" pronounced with a [S].
>>Normally I hear it with the full four syllables and a [t].
>>
>>But then, just a few sentences later, the same newsreader used singular
>>"criteria", so perhaps her English was a bit weak.
>
>She's wouldn't be to blame for "criteria" if she was reading what
>someone else had written (typed/keyed-in).

Aaagh!

An edito. Replace She's by She.

[CDB]

On 5/7/2017 10:26 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:

> CDB wrote:
>> ttexas...@gmail.com wrote:

>> [Re: how do you pronounce "Sentient" ?]

>>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"

>>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO!
>>> SEN-TEE-ENT

>> Qualified agreement. I say "SENtyint"; but most people here in
>> Ontario say it the way you don't like.

>> How do you feel about "nawshus" for "nauseous"? It's the same
>> sound change, the assimilation or partial assimilation of a
>> following "y" sound to a "t", "d", or "s".

> That has a z or (more rarely a) zh sound in my English.

I say "nawzyus" [nAzj@s] (no /O/ in my dialect), but I remember that Bob
Cunningham once said he pronounced it with "sh".

[John Varela]

On Mon, 8 May 2017 02:27:23 UTC, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 2017-May-08 05:53, John Varela wrote:
>
> > The only word ending in -tient other than sentient that I can come
> > up with offhand is "patient". Does anyone pronounce that with more
> > than one syllable?
>
> ITYM "more than two syllables".

You are correct.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Mon, 8 May 2017 00:55:50 UTC, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
wrote:

That's unconscionable.I am unsure what to make of it.

--
John Varela

[Robert Bannister]

I know I say "strontium" with a "sh", but I have never even thought the
word "tritium". However, I would expect a "t" after an [aI] sound,
although there are no doubt exceptions to that as well.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Stron-tee-um 90 was in all the news 55 or so years ago. The -ium element-ending
is lost with a -shum pronunciation.

[Snidely]

Peter T. Daniels formulated the question :

> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:47:11 PM UTC-4, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 8/5/17 9:36 pm, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> On 5/7/17 1:09 PM, Neill Massello wrote:
>>>> <ttexas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
>>>>>
>>>>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
>>>>
>>>> Another one like that is "consortium". Does it rhyme with "nasturtium"?
>>>
>>> The normal American pronunciation (in my experience) ends like
>>> "nasturtium". M-W lists the "sh" pronunciation first, by the way, but
>>> AHD lists the "t" pronunciation first.
>>>
>>> I definitely say "tritium" with a "t"

Ditto, but the "i" is short ... trit, /trIt/
or maybe (trIt).

>>> but "lutetium", if I were ever to
>>> mention it, with a "sh".

Sounds reasonable.

>>> At this point I have no idea how I say
>>> "strontium".
>>>
>> I know I say "strontium" with a "sh", but I have never even thought the
>> word "tritium". However, I would expect a "t" after an [aI] sound,
>> although there are no doubt exceptions to that as well.
>
> Stron-tee-um 90 was in all the news 55 or so years ago. The -ium
> element-ending is lost with a -shum pronunciation.

I have a -sheeeeum pronunciation it seems (actually, the /i/ is brief,
not drawn out).

/dps


--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)

[Peter Moylan]

That possibility hadn't occurred to me. I've only ever heard Cassius and
gaseous with three syllables, and no hint of a 'sh'.

[Peter Moylan]

Yes, that's a valid point.

I probably wouldn't make a good newsreader. When reading out loud I
automatically correct any errors in the text, sometimes without noticing it.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <oerssj$e30$2...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>I probably wouldn't make a good newsreader. When reading out loud I
>automatically correct any errors in the text, sometimes without noticing it.

Actually, over here that would be considered an important skill.
Especially with copy coming from a wire service, it's often necessary
to edit on the fly.

An ex-radio-news friend of mine went to an open house at the Canadian
Broadcasting Centre a couple of decades ago[1] and blew away the staff
at the "pretend to be a radio news announcer person" exhibit by
rewriting the script on the fly. He had to admit that he was in the
news business. (He was working as a TV reporter at the time.)

-GAWollman

[1] IIRC it was specifically being held to celebrate the inauguration
of CBLA-FM (99.1 Toronto), which replaced CBL (740) a few months
later, which would place it in 1999 or maybe late 1998.
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wol...@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

[Robert Bannister]

The pronunciation I know has three or at least two and a half syllables
['strA.n-SI-(j)@m].

Has the http://www.alt-usage-english.org/ site now disappeared for ever?

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

It has been archived on the "WaybackMachine" and is still available
there.

For instance the "ASCII IPA (combined)" page is:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160707184522/http://alt-usage-english.org/ipa/ascii_ipa_combined.shtml

[Charles Bishop]

In article <1n5noc5.1w9iojkrywodvN%nmas...@yahoo.com>,

nmas...@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) wrote:

> <ttexas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
> >
> > Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
>
> Another one like that is "consortium". Does it rhyme with "nasturtium"?

It does for me, but I may be in error on at least one.

--
charles

[Charles Bishop]

In article <oeps84$5te$1...@news.albasani.net>,

I rarely had to say it, but probably learned at STRON tee um.

--
charles

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 11:42:15 PM UTC-7, Snidely wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels formulated the question :
> > On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:47:11 PM UTC-4, Robert Bannister wrote:
> >> On 8/5/17 9:36 pm, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>> On 5/7/17 1:09 PM, Neill Massello wrote:
> >>>> <ttexas...@gmail.com> wrote:


> >>>>> I've only ever heard it as "sen-tee-ent"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Today I heard sen-shent" and it hurt my ears. Ouch.. NO! SEN-TEE-ENT
> >>>>
> >>>> Another one like that is "consortium". Does it rhyme with "nasturtium"?
> >>>
> >>> The normal American pronunciation (in my experience) ends like
> >>> "nasturtium". M-W lists the "sh" pronunciation first, by the way, but
> >>> AHD lists the "t" pronunciation first.
> >>>
> >>> I definitely say "tritium" with a "t"
>
> Ditto, but the "i" is short ... trit, /trIt/
> or maybe (trIt).

some of the time

> >>> but "lutetium", if I were ever to
> >>> mention it, with a "sh".
>
> Sounds reasonable.
>
> >>> At this point I have no idea how I say
> >>> "strontium".
> >>>
> >> I know I say "strontium" with a "sh", but I have never even thought the
> >> word "tritium". However, I would expect a "t" after an [aI] sound,
> >> although there are no doubt exceptions to that as well.
> >
> > Stron-tee-um 90 was in all the news 55 or so years ago. The -ium
> > element-ending is lost with a -shum pronunciation.
>
> I have a -sheeeeum pronunciation it seems (actually, the /i/ is brief,
> not drawn out).
>
> /dps

^^^^ me

[Robert Bannister]

Thank you. I needed to change my bookmark.

[Snidely]

Remember Wednesday, when Robert Bannister asked plainitively:

There are also some of us with archive copies (mine lacks whatever was
in dynamic pages, since the server wouldn't have been inclined to give
up the raw pages).

The domain name might be available.

/dps

--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain