Someone explain to me why the wacky pronunciation of "Tunisia"

[Harold R]

In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
with four syllables "too nis eee a".

Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
the movie "Patton":
http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia

Why?

Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?

I realize many words (e.g., French words) aren't pronounced in
English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
words.

Why not just spell it something like "Tuneesha" if it's gonna
be pronounced that way?

Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 10:29:50 PM UTC-4, Harold R wrote:

> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
> with four syllables "too nis eee a".

Do you give three syllabies to "Asia"?

> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
> the movie "Patton":
> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>
> Why?
>
> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?

It is pronounced exactly as it's spelled.

> I realize many words (e.g., French words) aren't pronounced in
> English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
> this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
> Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
> straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
> words.
>
> Why not just spell it something like "Tuneesha" if it's gonna
> be pronounced that way?

For one thing, <-si-> (under certain stress conditions) is [Z], not [S].

> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?

Yes.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-03-27 02:57:04 +0000, Stefan Ram said:

> Harold R <harold...@spamelect.com> writes:
>> English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
>> this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
>> Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
>> straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
>> words.
>

> The Italian pronunciation is [tuni'zia]. This means that in
> ['zia] the [i] and the [a] are pronounced separately.

What on earth has that got to do with it?

Why does it matter how the Italians pronounce it?

Anyway, I think the pronunciation that Harold R objects to is purely
American. In British English it's pronounced [tju̟'nɪzɪə]. I've rarely
heard it said any other way in English.

--
athel

[GordonD]

On 27/03/2016 03:59, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 10:29:50 PM UTC-4, Harold R wrote:
>
>> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
>> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
>> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
>> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>
> Do you give three syllabies to "Asia"?

Yes.

>> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
>> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
>> the movie "Patton":
>> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
>
> It is pronounced exactly as it's spelled.

Agreed - Tu-ni-si-a.

Are you one of those people who talk about Eye-raq?

--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Unknown]

GordonD wrote:

> On 27/03/2016 03:59, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 10:29:50 PM UTC-4, Harold R wrote:
> >
> > > In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
> > > Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
> > > the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
> > > with four syllables "too nis eee a".
> >
> > Do you give three syllabies to "Asia"?
>
> Yes.
>
> > > Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio
> > > recording closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott
> > > said it in the movie "Patton":
> > > http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
> > >
> > > Why?
> > >
> > > Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
> >
> > It is pronounced exactly as it's spelled.
>
> Agreed - Tu-ni-si-a.
>

More specifically Chew-ni-si-a for most Brits I'd think.

DC

--

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Yes. I've certainly heard it like that ( assuming that your s is a [z]
and not an [s]), and I've probably said it like that, but usually I
begin with [tj] rather than [sʃ].


--
athel

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:29:47 -0000 (UTC), Harold R wrote:
> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>

> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?

In my opinion, it is: three syllables with a -zh-.

The interior -i- after a consonant and before a vowel frequently
mutates the pronunciation. Consider all the -tion words. This feels
like the same sort of thing to me.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the
/right/ word is ... the difference between the lightning-bug
and the lightning." --Mark Twain

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:46:17 +0100, GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

>On 27/03/2016 03:59, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 10:29:50 PM UTC-4, Harold R wrote:
>>
>>> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
>>> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
>>> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
>>> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>>
>> Do you give three syllabies to "Asia"?
>
>Yes.
>

Sometimes, in my case.

>>> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
>>> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
>>> the movie "Patton":
>>> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
>>
>> It is pronounced exactly as it's spelled.
>
>Agreed - Tu-ni-si-a.
>
>Are you one of those people who talk about Eye-raq?

--

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Stan Brown]

On 27 Mar 2016 02:57:04 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:
>
> >Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?
>

> Often, »...sia « is pronounced [zj@], but in »Asia« it is
> being pronounced as [Z@] too, and it's pronounced [zi@]
> (also [S@]) in »dyspepsia«, and [si@] in »intelligentsia«.

I don't understand your symbols (probably my fault rather than
yours), but in my English the -sia of Asia and Tunisia are pronounced
the same, the zh of "azure" followed by a schwa.

Dyspepsia and intelligentsia don't follow that rule for me. In those,
I give -sia two syllables, with s sound, not zh. Maybe it's because
they're less often used; maybe Asia and Tunisia are special because
they're geographical.

[GordonD]

I didn't want to muddy the waters still further with a Tyoo/Too comparison.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 5:46:27 AM UTC-4, GordonD wrote:
> On 27/03/2016 03:59, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 10:29:50 PM UTC-4, Harold R wrote:

> >> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
> >> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
> >> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
> >> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
> > Do you give three syllabies to "Asia"?
>
> Yes.

Did Harold R license you to answer on his behalf?

> >> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
> >> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
> >> the movie "Patton":
> >> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
> >> Why?
> >> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
> > It is pronounced exactly as it's spelled.
>
> Agreed - Tu-ni-si-a.
>
> Are you one of those people who talk about Eye-raq?

No, but Jimmy Carter didn't say "A-zee-ya," so what's that got to do
with anything?

_You're_ the one imposing spelling-pronunciations on ordinary words.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 6:33:31 AM UTC-4, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:29:47 -0000 (UTC), Harold R wrote:
> > In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
> > Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
> > the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
> > with four syllables "too nis eee a".
> >
> > Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
>
> In my opinion, it is: three syllables with a -zh-.
>
> The interior -i- after a consonant and before a vowel frequently
> mutates the pronunciation. Consider all the -tion words. This feels
> like the same sort of thing to me.

Stan Brown actually got something right!

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 6:38:04 AM UTC-4, Stan Brown wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2016 02:57:04 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

> > >Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?
> > Often, »...sia « is pronounced [zj@], but in »Asia« it is
> > being pronounced as [Z@] too, and it's pronounced [zi@]
> > (also [S@]) in »dyspepsia«, and [si@] in »intelligentsia«.

There is no [z] (or [S]) in either of those words.

> I don't understand your symbols (probably my fault rather than
> yours),

yes

> but in my English the -sia of Asia and Tunisia are pronounced
> the same, the zh of "azure" followed by a schwa.

That's exactly what he said (until he threw in the "and").

> Dyspepsia and intelligentsia don't follow that rule for me. In those,
> I give -sia two syllables, with s sound, not zh. Maybe it's because
> they're less often used; maybe Asia and Tunisia are special because
> they're geographical.

Or maybe it's because they're preceded by a consonant, so don't provide
the environment for palatalization?

So Stan Brown is now at 1 for 2. Pretty good for a batting average.
Not so good for an English test.

[mrucb...@att.net]

Seems a quick look at British place and family names and their pronunciations
would give all the precedent necessary to understand a bit of geographical name shortening. Inja?

[GordonD]

On 27/03/2016 14:25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 5:46:27 AM UTC-4, GordonD wrote:
>> On 27/03/2016 03:59, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 10:29:50 PM UTC-4, Harold R wrote:
>
>>>> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
>>>> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
>>>> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
>>>> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>>> Do you give three syllabies to "Asia"?
>>
>> Yes.
>
> Did Harold R license you to answer on his behalf?

If the pair of you want to have a private discussion, take it to
e-mail. On a newsgroup it's a general conversation.

>>>> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
>>>> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
>>>> the movie "Patton":
>>>> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>>>> Why?
>>>> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
>>> It is pronounced exactly as it's spelled.
>>
>> Agreed - Tu-ni-si-a.
>>
>> Are you one of those people who talk about Eye-raq?
>
> No, but Jimmy Carter didn't say "A-zee-ya," so what's that got to do
> with anything?

Not sure what Jimmy Carter has to do with it; it's just that "Eye-raq"
grates on my ear when someone says it. It seems to be a peculiarly US
thing, like spelling Hitler's first name with a -ph.

> _You're_ the one imposing spelling-pronunciations on ordinary words.
>

I'm not imposing anything. I'm telling you how *I* pronounce certain words.

[Richard Tobin]

In article <f6a565ab-8be9-4c85...@googlegroups.com>,

Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 5:46:27 AM UTC-4, GordonD wrote:
>> On 27/03/2016 03:59, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 10:29:50 PM UTC-4, Harold R wrote:
>
>> >> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
>> >> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
>> >> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
>> >> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>> > Do you give three syllabies to "Asia"?
>>
>> Yes.
>
>Did Harold R license you to answer on his behalf?

Don't be silly.

-- Richard

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 9:42:43 AM UTC-4, GordonD wrote:
> On 27/03/2016 14:25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 5:46:27 AM UTC-4, GordonD wrote:
> >> On 27/03/2016 03:59, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 10:29:50 PM UTC-4, Harold R wrote:
> >
> >>>> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
> >>>> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
> >>>> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
> >>>> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
> >>> Do you give three syllabies to "Asia"?
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >
> > Did Harold R license you to answer on his behalf?
>
> If the pair of you want to have a private discussion, take it to
> e-mail. On a newsgroup it's a general conversation.

Then castigate _him_ for using "I" in his message.

> >>>> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
> >>>> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
> >>>> the movie "Patton":
> >>>> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
> >>>> Why?
> >>>> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
> >>> It is pronounced exactly as it's spelled.
> >>
> >> Agreed - Tu-ni-si-a.
> >>
> >> Are you one of those people who talk about Eye-raq?
> >
> > No, but Jimmy Carter didn't say "A-zee-ya," so what's that got to do
> > with anything?
>
> Not sure what Jimmy Carter has to do with it; it's just that "Eye-raq"
> grates on my ear when someone says it. It seems to be a peculiarly US
> thing, like spelling Hitler's first name with a -ph.
>
> > _You're_ the one imposing spelling-pronunciations on ordinary words.
> >
>
> I'm not imposing anything. I'm telling you how *I* pronounce certain words.

How could you misinterpret "impose"? You are pronouncing words as
they are spelled rather than with their traditional pronunciations.
You are imposing spelling-pronunciations on yourself.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

>American. In British English it's pronounced [tju?'n?z??]. I've rarely

>heard it said any other way in English.

This gives what, to me, sound like typical AmE and BrE pronuciations of
"Tunisia":
http://forvo.com/word/tunisia/#en

There are two distinctive differences.

The first "i" is "ee" in AmE but a short-i in BrE, as in "sit" or indeed
as in "Tunis".

The other is that being discussed, "ia" as roughly "yuh" in AmE and
"ee-uh" in BrE.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 3/26/16 8:29 PM, Harold R wrote:
> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>
> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
> the movie "Patton":
> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>
> Why?
>
> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?

It is, in America, although I can't come up with any other words that
end -isia.

> I realize many words (e.g., French words) aren't pronounced in
> English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
> this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
> Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
> straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
> words.
>
> Why not just spell it something like "Tuneesha" if it's gonna
> be pronounced that way?
>
> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?

The history of pronouncing it as three syllables instead of four is the
same as that of "Rhodesia", "adhesion", etc., I imagine. I don't know
how we Americans ended up with the FLEECE vowel rather than the KIT
vowel for the second syllable, unlike "partition", "inhibition", etc.
It might be relevant that we usually hear Italian "i" as "ee", as in
"linguini".

Is there a history to the British pronunciations of "Tunisia" as four
syllables, "Malaysian" as three or four, and "Rhodesian" as three?

Two curiosities that I found while looking this up in the OED:

Its pronunciation of "lesion" /ˈliːʒən/ doesn't match that of "adhesion"
/ədˈhiːʒn/, /adˈhiːʒn/. I assume they rhyme exactly in RP and someone
just forgot whatever their standard is for transcribing such words?

"Rhodesian" meaning "having to do with Cecil Rhodes" ("now rare") is
pronounced differently as "Rhodesian" meaning "of Rhodesia".

--
Jerry Friedman
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers

[Katy Jennison]

Gordon shares this pronunciation with almost everyone in the UK. See
(or rather, listen to) http://howjsay.com/pronunciation-of-tunisia

Just as a matter of interest, how do Americans pronounce the city,
Tunis? Too-neejh?

--
Katy Jennison

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 14:42:32 +0100, GordonD wrote:
>
> On 27/03/2016 14:25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > Did Harold R license you to answer on his behalf?
>
> If the pair of you want to have a private discussion, take it to
> e-mail. On a newsgroup it's a general conversation.

+1

> Not sure what Jimmy Carter has to do with it; it's just that "Eye-
> raq" grates on my ear when someone says it. It seems to be a
> peculiarly US thing, like spelling Hitler's first name with a -ph.

I'm American, and it grates on me too, just like "Eye-talian".

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 15:29:42 +0100, Katy Jennison wrote:
> Just as a matter of interest, how do Americans pronounce the city,
> Tunis? Too-neejh?

This American pronounces it TOO-niss, to rhyme with "we kiss".

[Unknown]

Yes indeed - though the city of Tunis is definitely with /s/.

DC

--

[Jerry Friedman]

On 3/27/16 8:47 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 14:42:32 +0100, GordonD wrote:
>>
>> On 27/03/2016 14:25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> Did Harold R license you to answer on his behalf?
>>
>> If the pair of you want to have a private discussion, take it to
>> e-mail. On a newsgroup it's a general conversation.
>
> +1
>
>> Not sure what Jimmy Carter has to do with it; it's just that "Eye-
>> raq" grates on my ear when someone says it. It seems to be a
>> peculiarly US thing, like spelling Hitler's first name with a -ph.
>
> I'm American, and it grates on me too, just like "Eye-talian".

Exactly. "Tunisia" rhyming with "Indonesia" is the only pronunciation
here, or just about. "Eye-raq" is different--it's non-standard but very
common.

[Katy Jennison]

On 27/03/2016 15:48, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 15:29:42 +0100, Katy Jennison wrote:
>> Just as a matter of interest, how do Americans pronounce the city,
>> Tunis? Too-neejh?
>
> This American pronounces it TOO-niss, to rhyme with "we kiss".
>

"Who kiss", shirley.

--
Katy Jennison

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Yes. For me too. It would sound odd with a  [z].
--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

For me it's more "you kiss": ['tju̟ːnɪs]

.
--
athel

[GordonD]

On 27/03/2016 15:09, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 9:42:43 AM UTC-4, GordonD wrote:
>> On 27/03/2016 14:25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 5:46:27 AM UTC-4, GordonD wrote:
>>>> On 27/03/2016 03:59, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 10:29:50 PM UTC-4, Harold R wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
>>>>>> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
>>>>>> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
>>>>>> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>>>>> Do you give three syllabies to "Asia"?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> Did Harold R license you to answer on his behalf?
>>
>> If the pair of you want to have a private discussion, take it to
>> e-mail. On a newsgroup it's a general conversation.
>
> Then castigate _him_ for using "I" in his message.

Why? Like me, he was stating how he pronounces the word, and not
attempting to speak for anybody else.

>>>>>> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
>>>>>> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
>>>>>> the movie "Patton":
>>>>>> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
>>>>> It is pronounced exactly as it's spelled.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed - Tu-ni-si-a.
>>>>
>>>> Are you one of those people who talk about Eye-raq?
>>>
>>> No, but Jimmy Carter didn't say "A-zee-ya," so what's that got to do
>>> with anything?
>>
>> Not sure what Jimmy Carter has to do with it; it's just that "Eye-raq"
>> grates on my ear when someone says it. It seems to be a peculiarly US
>> thing, like spelling Hitler's first name with a -ph.
>>
>>> _You're_ the one imposing spelling-pronunciations on ordinary words.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not imposing anything. I'm telling you how *I* pronounce certain words.
>
> How could you misinterpret "impose"? You are pronouncing words as
> they are spelled rather than with their traditional pronunciations.

Whose traditional pronunciations?

> You are imposing spelling-pronunciations on yourself.

No, I'm pronouncing it the way I have heard those around me pronouncing
it. That's how children learn to speak.

[quia...@yahoo.com]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 08:26:39 -0600, Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 3/26/16 8:29 PM, Harold R wrote:
>> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
>> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
>> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
>> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>>
>> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
>> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
>> the movie "Patton":
>> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
>
>It is, in America, although I can't come up with any other words that
>end -isia.
>

There are aphrodisia, artemisia, baptisia, akathisia.

{snipped}

--
John

[Jerry Friedman]

I'm not sure how I'd pronounce "aphrodisia", since I say "aphrodisiac"
as four syllables. "Artemisia" and "baptisia" are good ones. I can't
imagine how I missed "akathisia".

"Inability to sit down or to remain seated, resulting from a subjective
need or desire to move, frequently accompanied by sensations of
muscular twitching, and often occurring as a side effect of the use of
certain psychoactive drugs; an instance of this. Also in extended use."

It's one of the few words we've gotten from Czech. (All this is from
the OED.) I wonder why they didn't say "shpilkes".

[Jerry Friedman]

The OED has just told me that you lot say "Parisian" the same way, with
four syllables and a short "i". Well, I never.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 4:13:41 PM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> > {snipped}
[not nearly enough]

> I'm not sure how I'd pronounce "aphrodisia", since I say "aphrodisiac"
> as four syllables. "Artemisia" and "baptisia" are good ones. I can't
> imagine how I missed "akathisia".
>
> "Inability to sit down or to remain seated, resulting from a subjective
> need or desire to move, frequently accompanied by sensations of
> muscular twitching, and often occurring as a side effect of the use of
> certain psychoactive drugs; an instance of this. Also in extended use."
>
> It's one of the few words we've gotten from Czech. (All this is from
> the OED.) I wonder why they didn't say "shpilkes".

The Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Chicago held a(n annual?) service --
at Advent or Lent, maybe -- called the Akathist, because the congregation
was never seated throughout its duration.

[musika]

Some of us also say nausea and nauseous with three syllables. Nauseating
has four - do Americans have three or four syllables?

--
Ray
UK

[Lewis]

In message <nd9ish$861$1...@dont-email.me>

2/2/4

gnaw-zha, gnaw-sh@s, gnaw-zee-ay-ting


--
When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?

[Jerry Friedman]

I say "nausea" with three syllables, naw-zee-a /'nOzi@/. I agree with
the other two.

[Joe Fineman]

Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> writes:

> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 14:42:32 +0100, GordonD wrote:

>> Not sure what Jimmy Carter has to do with it; it's just that "Eye-
>> raq" grates on my ear when someone says it. It seems to be a
>> peculiarly US thing, like spelling Hitler's first name with a -ph.
>
> I'm American, and it grates on me too, just like "Eye-talian".

It strikes me as vulgar, but it has been going on for quite a while.
Cf. the wonderful British slang "Eyetie" (short for "Eyetalian"), which
the OED traces to 1925.

--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: Aphorisms are like perpetual-motion machines: One learns :||
||: from seeing what is wrong with them. :||

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Mar-28 02:00, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 3/27/16 8:47 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 14:42:32 +0100, GordonD wrote:
>>>
>>> On 27/03/2016 14:25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> Did Harold R license you to answer on his behalf?
>>>
>>> If the pair of you want to have a private discussion, take it to
>>> e-mail. On a newsgroup it's a general conversation.
>>
>> +1
>>
>>> Not sure what Jimmy Carter has to do with it; it's just that "Eye-
>>> raq" grates on my ear when someone says it. It seems to be a
>>> peculiarly US thing, like spelling Hitler's first name with a -ph.
>>
>> I'm American, and it grates on me too, just like "Eye-talian".
>
> Exactly. "Tunisia" rhyming with "Indonesia" is the only pronunciation
> here, or just about. "Eye-raq" is different--it's non-standard but very
> common.

The pronunciation that the OP is complaining about can also be found in
words like Polynesia and Micronesia. It seems, then, that AmE treats
"-esia" and "-isia" identically, while BrE distinguishes them.

I use the BrE pronunciation, and also have an initial [tj].

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Robert Bannister]

On 27/03/2016 10:29 am, Harold R wrote:
> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>
> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
> the movie "Patton":
> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>
> Why?
>
> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
>

> I realize many words (e.g., French words) aren't pronounced in

> English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
> this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
> Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
> straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
> words.
>

> Why not just spell it something like "Tuneesha" if it's gonna
> be pronounced that way?
>
> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?
>

How do you pronounce "Asia"? I have at least two ways and I'm not at all
consistent. I'm not sure whether I've actually heard anyone say
"Tunisia", but I would pick "tyoo-NI-zee-ya" for myself.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Robert Bannister]

But that really is how most of us say it, although I have heard
"pa-RI-zhi-yun".

[Robert Bannister]

On 27/03/2016 6:38 pm, Stan Brown wrote:

> On 27 Mar 2016 02:57:04 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?
>>

>> Often, »...sia « is pronounced [zj@], but in »Asia« it is
>> being pronounced as [Z@] too, and it's pronounced [zi@]
>> (also [S@]) in »dyspepsia«, and [si@] in »intelligentsia«.
>
> I don't understand your symbols (probably my fault rather than
> yours), but in my English the -sia of Asia and Tunisia are pronounced
> the same, the zh of "azure" followed by a schwa.
>
> Dyspepsia and intelligentsia don't follow that rule for me. In those,
> I give -sia two syllables, with s sound, not zh. Maybe it's because
> they're less often used; maybe Asia and Tunisia are special because
> they're geographical.
>

But Rhodesia was geographical too, but that always had "sh". I sometimes
say "Asia" with a "sh" too, but often with "zh", and "Tunisia" with a
straight "z".

[Robert Bannister]

On 27/03/2016 10:59 am, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 10:29:50 PM UTC-4, Harold R wrote:
>
>> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
>> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
>> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
>> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>

> Do you give three syllabies to "Asia"?
>

>> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
>> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
>> the movie "Patton":
>> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
>

> It is pronounced exactly as it's spelled.

We're talking about English where the correlation between spelling and
pronunciation is at best weak.

[Robert Bannister]

On 27/03/2016 10:48 pm, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 15:29:42 +0100, Katy Jennison wrote:
>> Just as a matter of interest, how do Americans pronounce the city,
>> Tunis? Too-neejh?
>
> This American pronounces it TOO-niss, to rhyme with "we kiss".
>

Surely "you kiss" rather than "we". The city's not Teanis.

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 16:20:27 +0100, Katy Jennison wrote:
> On 27/03/2016 15:48, Stan Brown wrote:

> > [quoted text muted]

> >> Tunis? Too-neejh?
> >
> > This American pronounces it TOO-niss, to rhyme with "we kiss".
> >
>
> "Who kiss", shirley.

I don't think I specified an interior rhyme. :-)

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 14:13:40 -0600, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> I'm not sure how I'd pronounce "aphrodisia", since I say "aphrodisiac"
> as four syllables.

Was that a thinko, by any chance? For me it's af-ro-DI-zi-ac, five
syllables. If you really did mean four, I'm curious what they are.

AHD4 gives two pronunciations, both of five syllables. (The variation
is whether the z sound begins the fourth syllable or ends the third.)

[Peter T. Daniels]

3/2/4

[Peter T. Daniels]

I responded to Harold R exactly as he deserved to be responded to.

Has he been stewing over that question since 1970?

[Jerry Friedman]

On 3/27/16 8:56 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 14:13:40 -0600, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> I'm not sure how I'd pronounce "aphrodisia", since I say "aphrodisiac"
>> as four syllables.
>
> Was that a thinko, by any chance? For me it's af-ro-DI-zi-ac, five
> syllables. If you really did mean four, I'm curious what they are.

Yes, maybe a numero. I meant five.

> AHD4 gives two pronunciations, both of five syllables. (The variation
> is whether the z sound begins the fourth syllable or ends the third.)

And the vowel, FLEECE versus KIT. Nothing with a "zh", which is how I
might say it.

[Harold R]

Harold R wrote ... on Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:29:47 +0000 ...

> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?

Thanks for all the comments.

It seems that we Americans pronounce isia (e.g., Tunisia) and
esia (Micronesia) similarly, while the British & presumably
Italians pronounce them differently.

I, for one, will *continue* to use the British/Italian
pronunciation (it just 'sounds' better to me), but, at
least I'll know that there is a allowance made for
American speakers to pronounce it as did the actor in
the Patton movie.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-03-28 04:51:43 +0000, Stefan Ram said:

[ … ]

> The Italian pronunciation of the ending <-sia> can be ['zia]
> (when stressed) or [sja]...

As you ignored the question before I'll ask it again: what on earth is
the relevance of the Italian pronunciation?


--
athel

[Jerry Friedman]

On 3/27/16 7:57 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 28/03/2016 4:14 am, Jerry Friedman wrote:

[Tunisia]

>> The OED has just told me that you lot say "Parisian" the same way, with
>> four syllables and a short "i". Well, I never.
>>
> But that really is how most of us say it, although I have heard
> "pa-RI-zhi-yun".

I believe it. It's just another little surprise about a pondial difference.

[Harold R]

Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote ... on Mon, 28 Mar 2016 09:35:18 +0200 ...

> As you ignored the question before I'll ask it again: what on
> earth is the relevance of the Italian pronunciation?

I had assumed the origin of the spelling was Italian, hence,
the original pronunciation was of the Italian, which I respect
for its "American-style" simplicity.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Ah. I missed your mention of Italian. I thought the idea that Italy was
involved came from »Stefan Ram« and that he thought that a brief period
between 1942 and 1943 justified the idea that Italy had something to do
with Tunisia. The name, of course, comes to us from French, and it's
perfectly normal for French -ie to correspond with English -ia in the
names of countries -- Namibie, Indonésie, Malaisie, Algérie, Libye,
Syrie, Bulgarie, Roumanie, Australie, Russie, Tanzanie …


--
athel

[Oliver Cromm]

* quia...@yahoo.com:

And Frisia.

--
ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS

[Oliver Cromm]

* Harold R:

> Harold R wrote ... on Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:29:47 +0000 ...
>
>> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?
>
> Thanks for all the comments.
>
> It seems that we Americans pronounce isia (e.g., Tunisia) and
> esia (Micronesia) similarly, while the British & presumably
> Italians pronounce them differently.

In AmE, it's not specific to -isia, it happens to all the -[V]sia
(with some vowel V) when unstressed: Asia, Indonesia, Tunisia,
ambrosia, Andalusia.

--
Software is getting slower
more rapidly than hardware becomes faster
--Wirth's law

[musika]

And freesia.

--
Ray
UK

[Jack Campin]

> BTW: Regarding words ending in »-sia«, I still can remember
> an ad that ended with the spoken rhyme: »Malaysia - truly Asia.«

AAARRGH!!! I had completely forgotten that until you brought it up.
(I saw it much too often on the seatback video on a return flight
from London to KL).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Jerry Friedman]

On 3/28/16 11:48 AM, Oliver Cromm wrote:
> * Harold R:
>
>> Harold R wrote ... on Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:29:47 +0000 ...
>>
>>> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?
>>
>> Thanks for all the comments.
>>
>> It seems that we Americans pronounce isia (e.g., Tunisia) and
>> esia (Micronesia) similarly, while the British & presumably
>> Italians pronounce them differently.
>
> In AmE, it's not specific to -isia, it happens to all the -[V]sia
> (with some vowel V) when unstressed: Asia, Indonesia, Tunisia,
> ambrosia, Andalusia.

With very few exceptions, such as "symposia". I can't find anything
authoritative about the American pronunciation of "lewisia" (a genus of
showy-flowered plants of western North American mountains), but my
intuition definitely says /lu'Isi@/.

"Nicosia" probably doesn't count.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-03-28 17:48:17 +0000, Oliver Cromm said:

> * Harold R:
>
>> Harold R wrote ... on Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:29:47 +0000 ...
>>
>>> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?
>>
>> Thanks for all the comments.
>>
>> It seems that we Americans pronounce isia (e.g., Tunisia) and
>> esia (Micronesia) similarly, while the British & presumably
>> Italians pronounce them differently.
>
> In AmE, it's not specific to -isia, it happens to all the -[V]sia
> (with some vowel V) when unstressed: Asia, Indonesia, Tunisia,
> ambrosia, Andalusia.

If you're referring to the town in Alabama then I have no opinion as to
how it should be pronounced, but in Andalucía, the region of Spain, the
í is stressed.

--
athel

[Dingbat]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 7:59:50 AM UTC+5:30, Harold R wrote:
> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>
> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
> the movie "Patton":
> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>
> Why?
>
> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
>

[t[u:nICj@] anyone?

>
> Why not just spell it something like "Tuneesha" if it's gonna
> be pronounced that way?
>

[Oliver Cromm]

* Athel Cornish-Bowden:

In Spanish, sure, but doing that in English would be decidedly
snobbish.

I checked about 10 dictionaries now, and only the AHD lists a
version stressed on the i as secondary option, but none of the
British dictionaries.

--
Humans write software and while a piece of software might be
bug free humans are not. - Robert Klemme

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-03-29 17:25:12 +0000, Oliver Cromm said:

> * Athel Cornish-Bowden:
>
>> On 2016-03-28 17:48:17 +0000, Oliver Cromm said:
>>
>>> * Harold R:
>>>
>>>> Harold R wrote ... on Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:29:47 +0000 ...
>>>>
>>>>> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all the comments.
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we Americans pronounce isia (e.g., Tunisia) and
>>>> esia (Micronesia) similarly, while the British & presumably
>>>> Italians pronounce them differently.
>>>
>>> In AmE, it's not specific to -isia, it happens to all the -[V]sia
>>> (with some vowel V) when unstressed: Asia, Indonesia, Tunisia,
>>> ambrosia, Andalusia.
>>
>> If you're referring to the town in Alabama then I have no opinion as to
>> how it should be pronounced, but in Andalucía, the region of Spain, the
>> í is stressed.
>
> In Spanish, sure, but doing that in English would be decidedly
> snobbish.

Maybe, but I don't often discuss Andalucía with people who don't speak Spanish.

>
> I checked about 10 dictionaries now, and only the AHD lists a
> version stressed on the i as secondary option, but none of the
> British dictionaries.


--

athel

[Robert Bannister]

On 30/03/2016 2:51 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2016-03-29 17:25:12 +0000, Oliver Cromm said:
>
>> * Athel Cornish-Bowden:
>>
>>> On 2016-03-28 17:48:17 +0000, Oliver Cromm said:
>>>
>>>> * Harold R:
>>>>
>>>>> Harold R wrote ... on Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:29:47 +0000 ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for all the comments.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems that we Americans pronounce isia (e.g., Tunisia) and
>>>>> esia (Micronesia) similarly, while the British & presumably
>>>>> Italians pronounce them differently.
>>>>
>>>> In AmE, it's not specific to -isia, it happens to all the -[V]sia
>>>> (with some vowel V) when unstressed: Asia, Indonesia, Tunisia,
>>>> ambrosia, Andalusia.
>>>
>>> If you're referring to the town in Alabama then I have no opinion as to
>>> how it should be pronounced, but in Andalucía, the region of Spain, the
>>> í is stressed.
>>
>> In Spanish, sure, but doing that in English would be decidedly
>> snobbish.
>
> Maybe, but I don't often discuss Andalucía with people who don't speak
> Spanish.

I've never discussed Andalusia with anyone who did speak Spanish. Even
then, I think I've only mentioned it as being one of the few vestiges
left behind by the Vandals.

[snide...@gmail.com]

In the Horse World, Andalusians are breed that, like Friesians,
is collected by those who want to dazzle with elegance.
(That isn't an oxymoron, but it does imply a lot of work.)

Andalusians often come in coats and colors that look good in shows,
and they have Moves. You clan find them in riding classes,
especially dressage or dance,
and you can find them in driving classes.

<URL:http://www.rothrockandalusians.com/Fandango.html>
<URL:http://www.theandalusianhorse.com/The_Andalusian_Breed.html>
<URL:http://www.andalusian-horse-export.com/portfolio_page/horses-for-sale-andalusian-pre-stallion-dressage-dictador-andalucian/>
(that one may produce motion sickness ... it's the picture cycling, I think,
but maybe my VM is too slow to be smooth; antoher system doesn't looks so bad.)
<URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tKXx0tuktY>

And of course, among the people I'm allowed to be around for horsey stuff,
both Andalusian and Friesian have the 1 syllable ending with mid-tongue
to palate... AIPA(zh@n) or AIPA(zhun).


/dps

[Mike Barnes]

Oliver Cromm wrote:
> * Athel Cornish-Bowden:
>
>> On 2016-03-28 17:48:17 +0000, Oliver Cromm said:
>>
>>> * Harold R:
>>>
>>>> Harold R wrote ... on Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:29:47 +0000 ...
>>>>
>>>>> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all the comments.
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we Americans pronounce isia (e.g., Tunisia) and
>>>> esia (Micronesia) similarly, while the British & presumably
>>>> Italians pronounce them differently.
>>>
>>> In AmE, it's not specific to -isia, it happens to all the -[V]sia
>>> (with some vowel V) when unstressed: Asia, Indonesia, Tunisia,
>>> ambrosia, Andalusia.
>>
>> If you're referring to the town in Alabama then I have no opinion as to
>> how it should be pronounced, but in Andalucía, the region of Spain, the
>> í is stressed.
>
> In Spanish, sure, but doing that in English would be decidedly
> snobbish.

In AmE that's probably so; in BrE, less so. It's certainly not unusual
for us BrE speakers to lisp the s, and I imagine that would be regarded
as pretentious in AmE.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[Robert Bannister]

They are very pretty.

[Jerry Friedman]

Or just weird. I think there are a lot of Americans who know some
Spanish but don't know about the lisp.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

They're probably much more familiar with Latin American Spanish, in
which z is not normally [θ] but [s]. That's also true in much of
Andalucía, though there is a lot of variation: when we were in Granada
20 or so years ago I didn't detect much difference in the accent from
how they speak in Madrid, but in Córdoba and Seville they are clearly
different, both from one another and from Madrid.


--
athel

[Adam Funk]

On 2016-03-27, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> On 2016-03-27 02:57:04 +0000, Stefan Ram said:
>
>> Harold R <harold...@spamelect.com> writes:
>>> English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
>>> this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
>>> Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
>>> straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
>>> words.
>>
>> The Italian pronunciation is [tuni'zia]. This means that in
>> ['zia] the [i] and the [a] are pronounced separately.
>
> What on earth has that got to do with it?
>
> Why does it matter how the Italians pronounce it?

>
> Anyway, I think the pronunciation that Harold R objects to is purely

> American. In British English it's pronounced [tju̟'nɪzɪə]. I've rarely

> heard it said any other way in English.

But I don't think I've heard "Asia" as /ˈeɪzɪə/ in any kind of
English.


--
To live without killing is a thought which could electrify the world,
if men were only capable of staying awake long enough to let the idea
soak in. --- Henry Miller

[Ross]

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 11:30:06 PM UTC+13, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2016-03-27, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> > On 2016-03-27 02:57:04 +0000, Stefan Ram said:
> >
> >> Harold R <harold...@spamelect.com> writes:
> >>> English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
> >>> this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
> >>> Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
> >>> straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
> >>> words.
> >>
> >> The Italian pronunciation is [tuni'zia]. This means that in
> >> ['zia] the [i] and the [a] are pronounced separately.
> >
> > What on earth has that got to do with it?
> >
> > Why does it matter how the Italians pronounce it?
> >
> > Anyway, I think the pronunciation that Harold R objects to is purely
> > American. In British English it's pronounced [tju̟'nɪzɪə]. I've rarely
> > heard it said any other way in English.
>
> But I don't think I've heard "Asia" as /ˈeɪzɪə/ in any kind of
> English.

Agreed.
But interestingly /eɪʃə/ (with voiceless fricative!) is
the only pronunciation given in Jones I (1917) and V (1940), and
is still offered as an alternative in XVIII (2011). Even Kenyon
& Knott give it as second choice, though they note that the
tendency is for UK ʃ, US ʒ.

[Robert Bannister]

On 31/03/2016 6:21 pm, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2016-03-27, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>> On 2016-03-27 02:57:04 +0000, Stefan Ram said:
>>
>>> Harold R <harold...@spamelect.com> writes:
>>>> English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
>>>> this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
>>>> Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
>>>> straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
>>>> words.
>>>
>>> The Italian pronunciation is [tuni'zia]. This means that in
>>> ['zia] the [i] and the [a] are pronounced separately.
>>
>> What on earth has that got to do with it?
>>
>> Why does it matter how the Italians pronounce it?
>>
>> Anyway, I think the pronunciation that Harold R objects to is purely
>> American. In British English it's pronounced [tju̟'nɪzɪə]. I've rarely
>> heard it said any other way in English.
>
> But I don't think I've heard "Asia" as /ˈeɪzɪə/ in any kind of
> English.
>
>

Fairly common, but I hear (and use) the "zh" more often in "Asian" than
in "Asia".

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 5:19:00 PM UTC+3, PeterWD wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:54:44 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>
> >On 2016-03-27 02:57:04 +0000, Stefan Ram said:
> >
> >> Harold R <harold...@spamelect.com> writes:
> >>> English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
> >>> this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
> >>> Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
> >>> straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
> >>> words.
> >>
> >> The Italian pronunciation is [tuni'zia]. This means that in
> >> ['zia] the [i] and the [a] are pronounced separately.
> >
> >What on earth has that got to do with it?
> >
> >Why does it matter how the Italians pronounce it?
> >
> >Anyway, I think the pronunciation that Harold R objects to is purely

> >American. In British English it's pronounced [tju?'n?z??]. I've rarely

> >heard it said any other way in English.
>

> This gives what, to me, sound like typical AmE and BrE pronuciations of
> "Tunisia":
> http://forvo.com/word/tunisia/#en
>
> There are two distinctive differences.
>
> The first "i" is "ee" in AmE but a short-i in BrE, as in "sit" or indeed
> as in "Tunis".

It's tu:nis in Arabic. u: is long and i is short.

>
> The other is that being discussed, "ia" as roughly "yuh" in AmE and
> "ee-uh" in BrE.
>
> --
> Peter Duncanson, UK
> (in alt.usage.english)

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-03-31 10:21:04 +0000, Adam Funk said:

> On 2016-03-27, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>> On 2016-03-27 02:57:04 +0000, Stefan Ram said:
>>
>>> Harold R <harold...@spamelect.com> writes:
>>>> English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
>>>> this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
>>>> Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
>>>> straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
>>>> words.
>>>
>>> The Italian pronunciation is [tuni'zia]. This means that in
>>> ['zia] the [i] and the [a] are pronounced separately.
>>
>> What on earth has that got to do with it?
>>
>> Why does it matter how the Italians pronounce it?
>>
>> Anyway, I think the pronunciation that Harold R objects to is purely
>> American. In British English it's pronounced [tju̟'nɪzɪə]. I've rarely
>> heard it said any other way in English.
>
> But I don't think I've heard "Asia" as /ˈeɪzɪə/ in any kind of
> English.

No, but did anyone say it was?

--
athel

[Kyle Hagerty]

On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 7:29:50 PM UTC-7, Harold R wrote:
> In the movie "Patton", the actor playing Patton pronounced
> Tunisia with the three syllables as "too knee zha" instead of
> the way I have always pronounced it, which is as it's spelled,
> with four syllables "too nis eee a".
>
> Looking up the Am English pronunciation, I find this audio recording
> closely matches the 3-syllable way that George C. Scott said it in
> the movie "Patton":
> http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/d342/Tunisia
>
> Why?
>
> Specifically, why isn't Tunisia pronounced the way it's spelled?
>

> I realize many words (e.g., French words) aren't pronounced in

> English the way they're spelled in French; but my point is that
> this is a pretty simple spelling, and it appears to be either an
> Italian or an English spelling, both of which are generally
> straightforward languages when it comes to pronouncing simple
> words.
>

> Why not just spell it something like "Tuneesha" if it's gonna
> be pronounced that way?
>

> Is there a history to this oddball pronunciation?

you dumb, but also racist. how dare they pronounce it wrong even though they never wouldve needed to make an english word for their country if you fuckers hadnt colonized them

[Ken Blake]

You're the one replying to a five-year-old message and you call him dumb?

--
Ken