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Origin Of "Heads Or Tails"? And Why Tails?
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my gold
Oct 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/2/00
to
Where did the phrase "heads or tails" originate and what is its history
and why tails was there a coin that had a tail on one of the side?
and why tails was there a coin that had a tail on one of the side?
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Before you buy.
N.Mitchum
Oct 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/2/00
to
my gold wrote:
-----
> Where did the phrase "heads or tails" originate and what is its history
> and why tails was there a coin that had a tail on one of the side?
>......
-----
> Where did the phrase "heads or tails" originate and what is its history
> and why tails was there a coin that had a tail on one of the side?
I believe the reverse side of a coin is called "tails" simply
because on the other side there most often is a head -- and one
antonym of "head" is "tail."
The phrase "heads or tails" refers to tossing a coin to reach a
decision or choice. Either way, you have a fifty-fifty chance.
----NM
John Dean
Oct 3, 2000, 7:20:56 PM10/3/00
to
Simon R. Hughes <shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote in message
news:MPG.144338e7d...@news.online.no...
> > >
> > >The phrase "heads or tails" refers to tossing a coin to reach a
> > >decision or choice. Either way, you have a fifty-fifty chance.
> >
>
> Except that the coin has three surfaces on which to land.
> --
Pssssst! If you can toss a coin so it comes down on its edge (or better
still, doesn't come down at all) I can put some serious money your way
--
John Dean -- Oxford
I am anti-spammed -- defrag me to reply
Carmen L. Abruzzi
Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00
to
----------
In article <8rdpmf$k78$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, "John Dean"
<john...@fragmsn.com> wrote:
>
>Simon R. Hughes <shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote in message
>news:MPG.144338e7d...@news.online.no...
>> > >
>> > >The phrase "heads or tails" refers to tossing a coin to reach a
>> > >decision or choice. Either way, you have a fifty-fifty chance.
>> >
>> > Of course, in a purely theoretical sense.
>>
>> Except that the coin has three surfaces on which to land.
>> --
>Pssssst! If you can toss a coin so it comes down on its edge (or better
>still, doesn't come down at all) I can put some serious money your way
This happened in an old Twilight Zone episode, starring a very
young What's-His-Name. Not Dick Van Dyke, not Roddy McDowell,
but somewhere in between. Anyway, the guy flips a quarter to a
street vendor and it lands on its edge in the vendor's box. For
the rest of the day, the guy can hear the thoughts of others.
The next morning the guy passes the vendor again and happens to
knock the coin over onto one of its sides, and his mind-reading
ability is gone.
Ah, <http://www.twilightzone.org/> has got it. Dick York was the
star, "A Penny for Your Thoughts" the title, and it first aired
February 3, 1961.
Matti Lamprhey
Oct 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/5/00
to
"Carmen L. Abruzzi" <n...@mit.edu> wrote...
>
> This happened in an old Twilight Zone episode, starring a very
> young What's-His-Name. Not Dick Van Dyke, not Roddy McDowell,
> but somewhere in between. Anyway, the guy flips a quarter to a
> street vendor and it lands on its edge in the vendor's box. For
> the rest of the day, the guy can hear the thoughts of others.
> The next morning the guy passes the vendor again and happens to
> knock the coin over onto one of its sides, and his mind-reading
> ability is gone.
>
> Ah, <http://www.twilightzone.org/> has got it. Dick York was the
> star, "A Penny for Your Thoughts" the title, and it first aired
> February 3, 1961.
>
> This happened in an old Twilight Zone episode, starring a very
> young What's-His-Name. Not Dick Van Dyke, not Roddy McDowell,
> but somewhere in between. Anyway, the guy flips a quarter to a
> street vendor and it lands on its edge in the vendor's box. For
> the rest of the day, the guy can hear the thoughts of others.
> The next morning the guy passes the vendor again and happens to
> knock the coin over onto one of its sides, and his mind-reading
> ability is gone.
>
> Ah, <http://www.twilightzone.org/> has got it. Dick York was the
> star, "A Penny for Your Thoughts" the title, and it first aired
> February 3, 1961.
Which came first, the story or the title? My bet's on the title.
Matti
Donna Richoux
Oct 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/5/00
to
Matti Lamprhey <ma...@polka.bikini> wrote:
> "Carmen L. Abruzzi" <n...@mit.edu> wrote...
> > Ah, <http://www.twilightzone.org/> has got it. Dick York was the
> > star, "A Penny for Your Thoughts" the title, and it first aired
> > February 3, 1961.
>
> Which came first, the story or the title? My bet's on the title.
I doubt anyone will take that bet. "A penny for your thoughts" was
recorded as a common saying in 1522.
--
Best --- Donna Richoux
Matti Lamprhey
Oct 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/5/00
to
"Donna Richoux" <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote...
I meant that I bet they worked up the story from the saying.
Matti
John Dean
Oct 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/5/00
to
Matti Lamprhey <ma...@polka.bikini> wrote in message
news:8rhkjc$t9a$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk...
the title. Whaddya say - 50 per cent chance I'm right?
GrapeApe
Oct 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/6/00
to
>> > > Which came first, the story or the title? My bet's on the title.
>> >
>> > I doubt anyone will take that bet. "A penny for your thoughts" was
>> > recorded as a common saying in 1522.
>>
>> I meant that I bet they worked up the story from the saying.
>>
>I bet they worked up the story from Pascal's Theory of Probability THEN got
>the title. Whaddya say - 50 per cent chance I'm right?
>> >
>> > I doubt anyone will take that bet. "A penny for your thoughts" was
>> > recorded as a common saying in 1522.
>>
>> I meant that I bet they worked up the story from the saying.
>>
>I bet they worked up the story from Pascal's Theory of Probability THEN got
>the title. Whaddya say - 50 per cent chance I'm right?
I'm not taking that bet either. Nothing but music videos on it anyway and never
any Twilight Zone episodes with Orson bean lookalikes such as Mr. Samantha
Stevens (either one). I've switched to basic cable.
Mark Brader
Oct 21, 2000, 2:50:13 AM10/21/00
to
Earlier this month, John Dean wrote:
>> Pssssst! If you can toss a coin so it comes down on its edge (or better
>> still, doesn't come down at all) ...>> Pssssst! If you can toss a coin so it comes down on its edge (or better
And Carmen Abruzzi wrote:
> This happened in an old Twilight Zone episode, starring a very
> young What's-His-Name. Not Dick Van Dyke, not Roddy McDowell,
> but somewhere in between. Anyway, the guy flips a quarter to a
> street vendor and it lands on its edge in the vendor's box. For
Also remember how it happened that "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington".
--
Mark Brader "`char **' parameters are packaged in GREEN
Toronto envelopes and placed on the FIFTH shelf."
m...@vex.net -- Chris Torek
Jack Gavin
Oct 23, 2000, 10:00:54 PM10/23/00
to
Mark Brader wrote in message <8sreb5$1f0f$1...@news.tht.net>...
>Earlier this month, John Dean wrote:
>>> Pssssst! If you can toss a coin so it comes down on its edge (or better
>>> still, doesn't come down at all) ...
>
>And Carmen Abruzzi wrote:
>> This happened in an old Twilight Zone episode, starring a very
>> young What's-His-Name. Not Dick Van Dyke, not Roddy McDowell,
>> but somewhere in between. Anyway, the guy flips a quarter to a
>> street vendor and it lands on its edge in the vendor's box. For
>> the rest of the day, the guy can hear the thoughts of others. ...
>Earlier this month, John Dean wrote:
>>> Pssssst! If you can toss a coin so it comes down on its edge (or better
>>> still, doesn't come down at all) ...
>
>And Carmen Abruzzi wrote:
>> This happened in an old Twilight Zone episode, starring a very
>> young What's-His-Name. Not Dick Van Dyke, not Roddy McDowell,
>> but somewhere in between. Anyway, the guy flips a quarter to a
>> street vendor and it lands on its edge in the vendor's box. For
>> the rest of the day, the guy can hear the thoughts of others. ...
One of the Bewitched husbands, I think. (Dick York or Dick Sargent... I
get confused.)
>Also remember how it happened that "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington".
Uh, no.
--
Jack Gavin
Mark Brader
Oct 24, 2000, 9:55:15 PM10/24/00
to
> > Also remember how it happened that "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington".
>
> Uh, no.
>
> Uh, no.
A senator had died and a replacement had to be appointed. (In view
of the 17th amendment to the US constitution, this must have been a
temporary apppointment by the state's governor, pending an election
for the position.) The governor knew who was the right man for the
job, but wasn't sure if he dared go against the film's villains, who
had their own man they wanted named. While he was mulling over the
decision, his young son suggested choosing Smith.
Finally the governor flipped a coin to choose between the first two...
and it landed against a wall or a piece of furniture, on edge.
--
Mark Brader | "He's suffering from Politicians' Logic."
Toronto | "Something must be done, this is something, therefore
m...@vex.net | we must do it." -- Lynn & Jay: YES, PRIME MINISTER
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Rambler III
Nov 19, 2000, 7:56:15 PM11/19/00
to
John Dean wrote:
> Simon R. Hughes <shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote in message
> news:MPG.144338e7d...@news.online.no...
> > > >
> > > >The phrase "heads or tails" refers to tossing a coin to reach a
> > > >decision or choice. Either way, you have a fifty-fifty chance.
> > >
> > > Of course, in a purely theoretical sense.
> >
> > Except that the coin has three surfaces on which to land.
> > --
> Pssssst! If you can toss a coin so it comes down on its edge (or better
> still, doesn't come down at all) I can put some serious money your way
I've done just that. The coin, an unmilled nickel, came down and ended-up
on its edge on a flat surface, a formica covered table as I recall - not
once but several times in a lifetime.
--
Rambler III
“There are the learned and the knowing. Memory makes the one, philosophy
the other,” said the Abbe ... “Well, then” Dantes replied, “what will you
teach me first? I am eager to begin; I thirst for knowledge.”
p146 The Count of Monte Cristo, Alexandre Dumas, Everman’s Library 393 1951
k.sout...@gmail.com
Oct 13, 2014, 3:01:51 AM10/13/14
to
My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
R H Draney
Oct 13, 2014, 6:40:48 AM10/13/14
to
k.sout...@gmail.com filted:
"caudam" respectively....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the
>other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the
>term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
From the LISP keywords "car" and "cdr", related to the Latin "caput" and
>My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the
>other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the
>term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
"caudam" respectively....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 13, 2014, 7:51:25 AM10/13/14
to
On Monday, October 13, 2014 3:01:51 AM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
images on both sides -- seems like only the monarchies use people's heads
on the obverse, and the reverses are entirely up to the whim of the designer.
Where are you that has a donkey on the back? Our Buffalo Nickels went out
many decades ago.
Message has been deleted
Christian Weisgerber
Oct 13, 2014, 8:03:56 AM10/13/14
to
On 2014-10-13, k.sout...@gmail.com <k.sout...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's
> a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey"
> had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from.
What's at the other end from the head? There you go.
> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's
> a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey"
> had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from.
But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Bertel Lund Hansen
Oct 13, 2014, 9:38:01 AM10/13/14
to
Christian Weisgerber skrev:
> What's at the other end from the head?
Feet?
--
Bertel, Denmark
> What's at the other end from the head?
--
Bertel, Denmark
Christian Weisgerber
Oct 13, 2014, 10:52:12 AM10/13/14
to
On 2014-10-13, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>
> It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
> images on both sides
Why are you lying again?
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>
> It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
> images on both sides
k.sout...@gmail.com
Oct 13, 2014, 12:25:00 PM10/13/14
to
In the U.S. our quaters usually has a head on one side and an eagle on the other. In 2000 the mint started putting different pictures on the back of different states on quarters. Such as Nevada has a tree, Hawaii has a volcano, Oregon has mount hood, and so on. Idk what star has the donkey. It's just funny how kids are so honest, and see things how they really look.
Peter Percival
Oct 13, 2014, 1:11:23 PM10/13/14
to
Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2014-10-13, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>>
>> It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
>> images on both sides
>
> Why are you lying again?
To lie is to tell an untruth with the intention to deceive, isn't it?
> On 2014-10-13, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>>
>> It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
>> images on both sides
>
> Why are you lying again?
Why do you think Mr Daniels is trying to deceive?
--
[Dancing is] a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire.
G.B. Shaw quoted in /New Statesman/, 23 March 1962
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 13, 2014, 2:09:49 PM10/13/14
to
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 04:51:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Monday, October 13, 2014 3:01:51 AM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>
>It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
>images on both sides -- seems like only the monarchies use people's heads
>on the obverse, and the reverses are entirely up to the whim of the designer.
>
If you are referring to Euro currency coins that is not the case. The
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Monday, October 13, 2014 3:01:51 AM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>
>It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
>images on both sides -- seems like only the monarchies use people's heads
>on the obverse, and the reverses are entirely up to the whim of the designer.
>
obverse is "national" and the reverse is "common".
The "common" design varies with denomination and does not vary with
country. A monarchy which uses the Euro may have the monarch's head on
the obverse, not on the reverse.
The national designs:
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/2euro/html/index.en.html
The common designs:
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/common/html/index.en.html
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Christian Weisgerber
Oct 13, 2014, 1:22:09 PM10/13/14
to
On 2014-10-13, Bertel Lund Hansen <kanon...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>> What's at the other end from the head?
>
> Feet?
Anthropocentrist!
>> What's at the other end from the head?
>
> Feet?
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 13, 2014, 3:54:05 PM10/13/14
to
On Monday, October 13, 2014 12:25:00 PM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
> In the U.S. our quaters usually has a head on one side and an eagle on the other. In 2000 the mint started putting different pictures on the back of different states on quarters. Such as Nevada has a tree, Hawaii has a volcano, Oregon has mount hood, and so on. Idk what star has the donkey. It's just funny how kids are so honest, and see things how they really look.
I do wonder what you're looking at. I happen to have a complete set (though
> In the U.S. our quaters usually has a head on one side and an eagle on the other. In 2000 the mint started putting different pictures on the back of different states on quarters. Such as Nevada has a tree, Hawaii has a volcano, Oregon has mount hood, and so on. Idk what star has the donkey. It's just funny how kids are so honest, and see things how they really look.
here on the East Coast I have probably only about half of the Denver Mint
ones). Nevada has three mustangs, the sun setting (presumably) over mountains,
and flowers looking something like thistles; Hawaii has a map of the state
and the familiar statue of King Kamehameha with the outstretched arm; and
Oregon has Crater Lake. Several states have horses -- including the first
one, Delaware, in 1999, which commemorates the legend of Caesar Rodney's
all-night ride to get to the Continental Congress in time to sign the
Declaration. Kansas and North Dakota both have bison. No donkeys.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 13, 2014, 4:01:12 PM10/13/14
to
On Monday, October 13, 2014 1:11:23 PM UTC-4, Peter Percival wrote:
> Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>
> > On 2014-10-13, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>
> >>
>
> >> It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
>
> >> images on both sides
>
> >
>
> > Why are you lying again?
>
>
>
> To lie is to tell an untruth with the intention to deceive, isn't it?
>
> Why do you think Mr Daniels is trying to deceive?
I wonder whether Mr. Weisgerber is one of those who claim that US bills
> Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>
> > On 2014-10-13, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>
> >>
>
> >> It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
>
> >> images on both sides
>
> >
>
> > Why are you lying again?
>
>
>
> To lie is to tell an untruth with the intention to deceive, isn't it?
>
> Why do you think Mr Daniels is trying to deceive?
look too much alike. It's the euro coins that are all but indistinguishable.
All nearly the same size, all the same color. The first time I encountered
them, in Antwerp in 2004, they hadn't been circulating long and I got nice
shiny newish ones with clearly distinct images on both sides, and I saw a
rather large sampling of those issued by different countries. But by 2014
in Munich, I only got grubby worn-down brass-colored ones -- you could
see just barely that the E 1 and E 2 coins are bimetallic, but the light
has to be just right in order to read the numbers that appear only on the
reverse so you can tell them apart. Mostly I think I had German ones with
something that may have been the Brandenburg Gate on the obverse. I did
have one with a king's head but no hope of discovering who he was or where
he was from.
Since neither the bureaux de change nor American banks witll change coins,
I did my best to end up with none, and managed to get stuck with only 80c
(4 x 20c).
snide...@gmail.com
Oct 13, 2014, 4:04:48 PM10/13/14
to
On Monday, October 13, 2014 12:54:05 PM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Monday, October 13, 2014 12:25:00 PM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
> > In the U.S. our quaters usually has a head on one side and an eagle on the
> > other. In 2000 the mint started putting different pictures on the back of
> > different states on quarters. Such as Nevada has a tree, Hawaii has a
> > volcano, Oregon has mount hood, and so on. Idk what star has the donkey.
> > It's just funny how kids are so honest, and see things how they really look.
>
>
> I do wonder what you're looking at.
Probably speaking from memory, rather than looking at sample coins.
> On Monday, October 13, 2014 12:25:00 PM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
> > In the U.S. our quaters usually has a head on one side and an eagle on the
> > other. In 2000 the mint started putting different pictures on the back of
> > different states on quarters. Such as Nevada has a tree, Hawaii has a
> > volcano, Oregon has mount hood, and so on. Idk what star has the donkey.
> > It's just funny how kids are so honest, and see things how they really look.
>
>
> I do wonder what you're looking at.
> I happen to have a complete set (though
> here on the East Coast I have probably only about half of the Denver Mint
> ones). Nevada has three mustangs, the sun setting (presumably) over mountains,
> and flowers looking something like thistles; Hawaii has a map of the state
> and the familiar statue of King Kamehameha with the outstretched arm; and
> Oregon has Crater Lake.
> Several states have horses -- including the first
> one, Delaware, in 1999, which commemorates the legend of Caesar Rodney's
> all-night ride to get to the Continental Congress in time to sign the
> Declaration. Kansas and North Dakota both have bison. No donkeys.
predominate) but the child could be used to donkeys being "the opposite"
from the Elephant and Donkey Wars (partisan election campaigns).
/dps
Tony Cooper
Oct 13, 2014, 4:52:21 PM10/13/14
to
has been modified. While any coin can be modified, the US Buffalo
nickel was a favorite. The term came to be because hobos were often
the people doing the modification.
http://www.pcgs.com/News/More-Than-A-Nickels-Worth-A-History-Of-Hobo-Nickels
They are quite the collector's item.
Some of the efforts of one of the most well-known carvers of these
coins - George Washington "Bo" Hughes - are shown here:
http://www.pinterest.com/dechristo/classics-hughes-bo-george-washington/
His "Donkey with Shanty" is the fourth from the left.
Do a little searching with Google, and you will find legitimate donkey
coins including: Cuba's 10 Peso "Catalan Donkey" (2007), Venezuela's
75 Bolivares (1980), and St. Helena-Ascension's 2 Pence (1984). The
latter shown here:
http://sainthelenaisland.info/coin002.jpg
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
James Silverton
Oct 13, 2014, 5:14:52 PM10/13/14
to
clear terms, which "obverse" and "reverse" are not. Perhaps "symbol" and
"value", even if the symbol is often a head.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
Christian Weisgerber
Oct 13, 2014, 4:12:55 PM10/13/14
to
On 2014-10-13, Peter Percival <peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
>>> images on both sides
>>
>> Why are you lying again?
>
> To lie is to tell an untruth with the intention to deceive, isn't it?
> Why do you think Mr Daniels is trying to deceive?
Let's go for criminal negligence rather than intend to harm.
>>> It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
>>> images on both sides
>>
>> Why are you lying again?
>
> To lie is to tell an untruth with the intention to deceive, isn't it?
> Why do you think Mr Daniels is trying to deceive?
Robert Bannister
Oct 13, 2014, 6:46:27 PM10/13/14
to
On 13/10/2014 8:03 pm, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2014-10-13, k.sout...@gmail.com <k.sout...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's
>> a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey"
>> had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from.
>
> What's at the other end from the head? There you go.
>
> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>
What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back? - There are a few to
> On 2014-10-13, k.sout...@gmail.com <k.sout...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's
>> a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey"
>> had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from.
>
> What's at the other end from the head? There you go.
>
> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>
choose from, but not that many and many early coins, in societies where
the technology was available, depicted their ruler's head on one side.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Robert Bannister
Oct 13, 2014, 6:51:25 PM10/13/14
to
On 13/10/2014 9:38 pm, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Christian Weisgerber skrev:
>
>> What's at the other end from the head?
>
> Feet?
>
Usually the choice when you looking at the vertical height of something:
> Christian Weisgerber skrev:
>
>> What's at the other end from the head?
>
> Feet?
>
foot of mountain or cliff, but no head. On the other hand,
"dressed/covered/bespattered from head to foot" with people. With a
coin, you're not looking at head-foot, so much as front and back, but
which is the front? Many nations would have been familiar with coins
depicting a head/face, so the question is not "What is the opposite?" so
much as "What is on the other side?", but we don't have a neat word for
the "back of the head" or else we might have used it.
Message has been deleted
Bertel Lund Hansen
Oct 13, 2014, 7:58:00 PM10/13/14
to
Robert Bannister skrev:
> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back? - There are a few to
> choose from, but not that many and many early coins, in societies where
> the technology was available, depicted their ruler's head on one side.
In Danish we say "plat eller krone". I don't think that "plat"
means anything here though it is a current word. "Krone" means
"crown" and refers to the side with our majesty with a crown.
--
Bertel, Denmark
> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back? - There are a few to
> choose from, but not that many and many early coins, in societies where
> the technology was available, depicted their ruler's head on one side.
means anything here though it is a current word. "Krone" means
"crown" and refers to the side with our majesty with a crown.
--
Bertel, Denmark
k.sout...@gmail.com
Oct 13, 2014, 10:43:19 PM10/13/14
to
Like I said she's 6, a bison prob looks like a donkey to her.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 13, 2014, 11:46:58 PM10/13/14
to
On Monday, October 13, 2014 6:51:25 PM UTC-4, Robert Bannister wrote:
> Usually the choice when you looking at the vertical height of something:
> foot of mountain or cliff, but no head. On the other hand,
> "dressed/covered/bespattered from head to foot" with people. With a
> coin, you're not looking at head-foot, so much as front and back, but
> which is the front? Many nations would have been familiar with coins
> depicting a head/face, so the question is not "What is the opposite?" so
> much as "What is on the other side?", but we don't have a neat word for
> the "back of the head" or else we might have used it.
Occiput?
> Usually the choice when you looking at the vertical height of something:
> foot of mountain or cliff, but no head. On the other hand,
> "dressed/covered/bespattered from head to foot" with people. With a
> coin, you're not looking at head-foot, so much as front and back, but
> which is the front? Many nations would have been familiar with coins
> depicting a head/face, so the question is not "What is the opposite?" so
> much as "What is on the other side?", but we don't have a neat word for
> the "back of the head" or else we might have used it.
Dr Nick
Oct 14, 2014, 2:35:23 AM10/14/14
to
Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> writes:
> Ever heard of "hobo nickels"? A hobo nickel is an authentic coin that
> has been modified. While any coin can be modified, the US Buffalo
> nickel was a favorite. The term came to be because hobos were often
> the people doing the modification.
>
> http://www.pcgs.com/News/More-Than-A-Nickels-Worth-A-History-Of-Hobo-Nickels
>
> They are quite the collector's item.
>
> Some of the efforts of one of the most well-known carvers of these
> coins - George Washington "Bo" Hughes - are shown here:
>
> http://www.pinterest.com/dechristo/classics-hughes-bo-george-washington/
>
> His "Donkey with Shanty" is the fourth from the left.
Fascinating, and entirely new to me. Thanks!
> Ever heard of "hobo nickels"? A hobo nickel is an authentic coin that
> has been modified. While any coin can be modified, the US Buffalo
> nickel was a favorite. The term came to be because hobos were often
> the people doing the modification.
>
> http://www.pcgs.com/News/More-Than-A-Nickels-Worth-A-History-Of-Hobo-Nickels
>
> They are quite the collector's item.
>
> Some of the efforts of one of the most well-known carvers of these
> coins - George Washington "Bo" Hughes - are shown here:
>
> http://www.pinterest.com/dechristo/classics-hughes-bo-george-washington/
>
> His "Donkey with Shanty" is the fourth from the left.
Dr Nick
Oct 14, 2014, 2:36:41 AM10/14/14
to
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? k.sout...@gmail.com <k.sout...@gmail.com> was all, like:
> Are you asking a question?
>
> Heads or tails for coins is very old (hundreds of years), as is the
> similar "can't make heads nor tails of it" which is probably related.
> The tail is the opposite end of the body from the head, so it's just a
> short way of declaring two extremes. It's likely no different than "head
> over heels" or many other phrases.
>
> I believe there are a couple of phrases in Latin that pair head and tail
> as well, though not, IIRC, in coins.
Canal locks can have a "head" and a "tail" as well (the head is the
higher end).
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? k.sout...@gmail.com <k.sout...@gmail.com> was all, like:
>
> Heads or tails for coins is very old (hundreds of years), as is the
> similar "can't make heads nor tails of it" which is probably related.
> The tail is the opposite end of the body from the head, so it's just a
> short way of declaring two extremes. It's likely no different than "head
> over heels" or many other phrases.
>
> I believe there are a couple of phrases in Latin that pair head and tail
> as well, though not, IIRC, in coins.
Canal locks can have a "head" and a "tail" as well (the head is the
higher end).
Tom P
Oct 14, 2014, 5:15:23 AM10/14/14
to
principal design", so I think the terminology is clear enough.
Tom P
Oct 14, 2014, 5:28:56 AM10/14/14
to
meaning "head or number" and "head or eagle" respectively.
Now I'd like to make a suggestion for the origin of "heads or tails" -
the Thaler was a silver coin used throughout Europe for almost four
hundred years. There were many variations, but typically there was the
bust of a monarch on the obverse and the coat of arms on the reverse.
The word "tails" could be a corruption of "thaler". Opinions?
Tom P
Oct 14, 2014, 5:32:17 AM10/14/14
to
don't know anything about them.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 14, 2014, 7:39:14 AM10/14/14
to
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:02:49 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>Okay, so one time? In band camp? k.sout...@gmail.com <k.sout...@gmail.com> was all, like:
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>Okay, so one time? In band camp? k.sout...@gmail.com <k.sout...@gmail.com> was all, like:
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a
>> bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had
>> me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the
>> answer.
>
>> bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had
>> me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the
>> answer.
>
>Are you asking a question?
>
>Heads or tails for coins is very old (hundreds of years), as is the
>similar "can't make heads nor tails of it" which is probably related.
>The tail is the opposite end of the body from the head, so it's just a
>short way of declaring two extremes.
"Head" is often used for the leading, front, part of something that has
>
>Heads or tails for coins is very old (hundreds of years), as is the
>similar "can't make heads nor tails of it" which is probably related.
>The tail is the opposite end of the body from the head, so it's just a
>short way of declaring two extremes.
direction, either pointing or moving. For instance, "the head of a
queue", "the head of a line of traffic", "an arrowhead",....
"Tail" is less often used for the trailing end of such things, however,
"tailend" may be used of lines and queues.
> It's likely no different than "head
>over heels" or many other phrases.
>
>I believe there are a couple of phrases in Latin that pair head and tail
>as well, though not, IIRC, in coins.
>
>
><https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.usage.english/335gcuG8MTU>
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 14, 2014, 7:41:34 AM10/14/14
to
smaller than 5 euros, so I had a pocketful of big heavy ugly brass-
colored coins, but I know from experience that they cannot get changed
to US currency in the uaual ways, so I was careful to spend as many of
the coins as I could. There was nowhere in the airport that sold anything
for either 80c or 5,80. A number of souvenirs were priced at 4,90, but
that would have stuck me with 90c in useless coins instead of 80c.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 14, 2014, 7:44:12 AM10/14/14
to
profile, so both part of the face and part of the back of the head are
visible.
For instance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1953_half_crown_obverse.jpg
James Silverton
Oct 14, 2014, 8:19:40 AM10/14/14
to
would have difficulty defining "obverse" and "reverse". I think the
problem is that both words contain "verse".
Christian Weisgerber
Oct 14, 2014, 7:50:48 AM10/14/14
to
On 2014-10-13, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>>
> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back?
I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
>> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>>
> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back?
instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
Whence the plural?
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 14, 2014, 9:17:12 AM10/14/14
to
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 14, 2014, 9:53:08 AM10/14/14
to
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 11:50:48 +0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
<na...@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>On 2014-10-13, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>>> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>>>
>> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back?
>
>I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
>instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
>Whence the plural?
Difficult to say.
<na...@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>On 2014-10-13, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>>> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>>>
>> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back?
>
>I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
>instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
>Whence the plural?
The earliest example the OED has is dated 1675:
heads or tails n., adj., and int. (a) n. a game of chance in which
players try to predict which way up a tossed coin will fall (see
sense 4b); cf. cross and pile at pile n.2 1; (b) adj. (in
predicative use) evenly balanced between two equally likely
outcomes; dictated by chance; (c) int. used as a request to predict
which way up a tossed coin will fall.
1675Heads or tails [see sense 4b].
I'm guessing that the game "heads or tails" involves repeated
coin-tosses. The name of the game seems then to have been used for a
single coin-toss.
Sometimes a phrase or word will become customary regardless of logic.
Tony Cooper
Oct 14, 2014, 10:57:32 AM10/14/14
to
tourists could deposit their Kenyan coins and the proceeds would go to
some charity. A (Kenyan) shilling, at that time, was worth about 6
cents American, and I had a pocketful that went into the container.
I thought that was a marvelous idea, and that more countries should
adopt the practice.
Tony Cooper
Oct 14, 2014, 10:59:17 AM10/14/14
to
>On 2014-10-13, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>>> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>>>
>> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back?
>
>I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
>instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
>Whence the plural?
Are you looking for a ruling by the readership?
>
>>> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>>>
>> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back?
>
>I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
>instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
>Whence the plural?
As far as I know, The Committee is responsible for declarations of
"Why?" and the rank-and-file are not allowed to make such decisions.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Oct 14, 2014, 11:01:25 AM10/14/14
to
pretty sure there was one at Heathrow when I went through the other
day, but I didn't put anything in it because I expect to need my UK
coins in the future.
--
athel
LFS
Oct 14, 2014, 11:23:22 AM10/14/14
to
On 14/10/2014 15:57, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> At the airport in Nairobi, there was a container in which departing
> tourists could deposit their Kenyan coins and the proceeds would go to
> some charity. A (Kenyan) shilling, at that time, was worth about 6
> cents American, and I had a pocketful that went into the container.
>
> I thought that was a marvelous idea, and that more countries should
> adopt the practice.
>
On many flights I've been on, apart from the domestic ones, passengers
>
> At the airport in Nairobi, there was a container in which departing
> tourists could deposit their Kenyan coins and the proceeds would go to
> some charity. A (Kenyan) shilling, at that time, was worth about 6
> cents American, and I had a pocketful that went into the container.
>
> I thought that was a marvelous idea, and that more countries should
> adopt the practice.
>
have been encouraged to contribute their surplus small change for
charitable purposes. Often an envelope is provided.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Phil Carmody
Oct 14, 2014, 1:02:08 PM10/14/14
to
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:
is a little perverse? Are they just trying to say it's the
opposite of the "reverse"? But what's the "reverse" the reverse
of? Whatever that is, that's what the "obverse" should be
called instead.
Phil
--
The best part of re-inventing the wheel is that you get to pick how
many sides the new one has. -- egcagrac0 on SoylentNews
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 04:51:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, October 13, 2014 3:01:51 AM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
> >
> >It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
> >images on both sides -- seems like only the monarchies use people's heads
> >on the obverse, and the reverses are entirely up to the whim of the designer.
> >
> If you are referring to Euro currency coins that is not the case. The
> obverse is "national" and the reverse is "common".
ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, October 13, 2014 3:01:51 AM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
> >
> >It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
> >images on both sides -- seems like only the monarchies use people's heads
> >on the obverse, and the reverses are entirely up to the whim of the designer.
> >
> If you are referring to Euro currency coins that is not the case. The
> obverse is "national" and the reverse is "common".
is a little perverse? Are they just trying to say it's the
opposite of the "reverse"? But what's the "reverse" the reverse
of? Whatever that is, that's what the "obverse" should be
called instead.
Phil
--
The best part of re-inventing the wheel is that you get to pick how
many sides the new one has. -- egcagrac0 on SoylentNews
Christian Weisgerber
Oct 14, 2014, 11:51:19 AM10/14/14
to
On 2014-10-14, James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
> The definition may be clear but I'd bet that the average English speaker
> would have difficulty defining "obverse" and "reverse". I think the
> problem is that both words contain "verse".
There has been some related discussion on Language Log about
> The definition may be clear but I'd bet that the average English speaker
> would have difficulty defining "obverse" and "reverse". I think the
> problem is that both words contain "verse".
hard-to-remember[1] terms that have contrasting meanings. The
starting point was "sensitivity" and "specificity" in medical jargon.
"Evaluating terminological oppositions"
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=14888
[1] To hyphenate or not to hyphenate?
Guy Barry
Oct 14, 2014, 1:15:15 PM10/14/14
to
"Phil Carmody" wrote in message news:87ppduw...@bazspaz.fatphil.org...
>ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
>is a little perverse? Are they just trying to say it's the
>opposite of the "reverse"? But what's the "reverse" the reverse
>of? Whatever that is, that's what the "obverse" should be
>called instead.
I can't see anything wrong with "obverse". It comes from "ob-" ("towards")
plus "vertere" ("turn"), so the meaning is the side that's turned towards
the observer.
The one thing I do have difficulty with is the stress. The adjective
"obverse" is normally stressed on the first syllable, whereas the adjective
"reverse" is normally stressed on the second. Does this also apply to the
nouns? Or is one supposed to say "OB-verse" and "RE-verse"?
--
Guy Barry
>ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
>is a little perverse? Are they just trying to say it's the
>opposite of the "reverse"? But what's the "reverse" the reverse
>of? Whatever that is, that's what the "obverse" should be
>called instead.
plus "vertere" ("turn"), so the meaning is the side that's turned towards
the observer.
The one thing I do have difficulty with is the stress. The adjective
"obverse" is normally stressed on the first syllable, whereas the adjective
"reverse" is normally stressed on the second. Does this also apply to the
nouns? Or is one supposed to say "OB-verse" and "RE-verse"?
--
Guy Barry
occam
Oct 14, 2014, 1:41:34 PM10/14/14
to
On 13/10/2014 22:01, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Monday, October 13, 2014 1:11:23 PM UTC-4, Peter Percival wrote:
>> Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>>
> On Monday, October 13, 2014 1:11:23 PM UTC-4, Peter Percival wrote:
>> Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>>
> have one with a king's head but no hope of discovering who he was or where
> he was from.
One of these: Luxembourg (Grand Duke, not King); Belgium (bespectacled
> he was from.
father, 2008) or son (2014); The Netherlands;
or
you could have mistaken the Pope (Vatican city) for a king
Here is the rogues gallery, per country.
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/cash/national/index_en.htm
snide...@gmail.com
Oct 14, 2014, 1:59:12 PM10/14/14
to
On Monday, October 13, 2014 (at my 5:02:49 AM UTC-7), Lewis wrote:
> There's this thread from 2000, but I honestly only skimmed it:
>
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.usage.english/335gcuG8MTU>
That's this thread. Resurrected either on purpose or by coincident.
> There's this thread from 2000, but I honestly only skimmed it:
>
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.usage.english/335gcuG8MTU>
(GG doesn't normally let you post to a thread that old, but sometimes it will spot the matching title and pretend there was a references.)
/dps
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 14, 2014, 3:04:13 PM10/14/14
to
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:15:15 +0100, "Guy Barry"
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>"Phil Carmody" wrote in message news:87ppduw...@bazspaz.fatphil.org...
>
>>ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
>>is a little perverse? Are they just trying to say it's the
>>opposite of the "reverse"? But what's the "reverse" the reverse
>>of? Whatever that is, that's what the "obverse" should be
>>called instead.
>
>I can't see anything wrong with "obverse". It comes from "ob-" ("towards")
>plus "vertere" ("turn"), so the meaning is the side that's turned towards
>the observer.
>
Indeed. However many English users are unfamiliar with the origin and
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>"Phil Carmody" wrote in message news:87ppduw...@bazspaz.fatphil.org...
>
>>ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
>>is a little perverse? Are they just trying to say it's the
>>opposite of the "reverse"? But what's the "reverse" the reverse
>>of? Whatever that is, that's what the "obverse" should be
>>called instead.
>
>I can't see anything wrong with "obverse". It comes from "ob-" ("towards")
>plus "vertere" ("turn"), so the meaning is the side that's turned towards
>the observer.
>
meaning of the prefix "ob". They are likely to guess the general sense
of "ob" from familiar words such as "objection", "obscene", "obdurate",
"obnoxious", "obscure", "obstacle" and "obstruct" all of which have a
negative sense. It is easy to infer, without analysis, that "ob" creates
or contributes to the negativity.
>The one thing I do have difficulty with is the stress. The adjective
>"obverse" is normally stressed on the first syllable, whereas the adjective
>"reverse" is normally stressed on the second. Does this also apply to the
>nouns? Or is one supposed to say "OB-verse" and "RE-verse"?
--
Christian Weisgerber
Oct 14, 2014, 1:53:51 PM10/14/14
to
On 2014-10-14, Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> At the airport in Nairobi, there was a container in which departing
> tourists could deposit their Kenyan coins and the proceeds would go to
> some charity. A (Kenyan) shilling, at that time, was worth about 6
> cents American, and I had a pocketful that went into the container.
>
> I thought that was a marvelous idea, and that more countries should
> adopt the practice.
Is there an international airport that DOESN'T have this?
> At the airport in Nairobi, there was a container in which departing
> tourists could deposit their Kenyan coins and the proceeds would go to
> some charity. A (Kenyan) shilling, at that time, was worth about 6
> cents American, and I had a pocketful that went into the container.
>
> I thought that was a marvelous idea, and that more countries should
> adopt the practice.
Mark Brader
Oct 14, 2014, 3:48:57 PM10/14/14
to
Christian Weisgerber:
> [1] To hyphenate or not to hyphenate?
Hyphenate! Hyphenate! Hyphenate!
--
Mark Brader, Toronto, m...@vex.net
"Omit needless code! Omit needless code! Omit needless code!"
-- Chip Salzenberg (after Strunk & White)
> There has been some related discussion on Language Log about
> hard-to-remember[1] terms that have contrasting meanings...
> [1] To hyphenate or not to hyphenate?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto, m...@vex.net
"Omit needless code! Omit needless code! Omit needless code!"
-- Chip Salzenberg (after Strunk & White)
Mark Brader
Oct 14, 2014, 3:53:28 PM10/14/14
to
Phil Carmody:
What *I* think is that using *"reverse"* for the front is perverse.
(When one side of every denomination of coin has the same image of
the Queen, and the same wording identifying her, and nothing else,
isn't it obvious that that -- the heads side -- is the back?
Cf. playing cards.)
--
Mark Brader | "The closest I can get to describing her is to compare
Toronto | the feeling one gets from picking up a ten-card suit..."
m...@vex.net | --Zia Mahmood
My text in this article is in the public domain.
> ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
> is a little perverse? ...
What *I* think is that using *"reverse"* for the front is perverse.
(When one side of every denomination of coin has the same image of
the Queen, and the same wording identifying her, and nothing else,
isn't it obvious that that -- the heads side -- is the back?
Cf. playing cards.)
--
Mark Brader | "The closest I can get to describing her is to compare
Toronto | the feeling one gets from picking up a ten-card suit..."
m...@vex.net | --Zia Mahmood
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Mike L
Oct 14, 2014, 5:46:17 PM10/14/14
to
--
Mike.
Mike L
Oct 14, 2014, 5:52:56 PM10/14/14
to
point; there are tailwaters to match headwaters, but I'm not sure I've
met plain "tail" in those cases.
--
Mike.
R H Draney
Oct 14, 2014, 6:13:14 PM10/14/14
to
Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> filted:
for "obvious")....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:15:15 +0100, "Guy Barry"
><guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>I can't see anything wrong with "obverse". It comes from "ob-" ("towards")
>>plus "vertere" ("turn"), so the meaning is the side that's turned towards
>>the observer.
>>
>Indeed. However many English users are unfamiliar with the origin and
>meaning of the prefix "ob". They are likely to guess the general sense
>of "ob" from familiar words such as "objection", "obscene", "obdurate",
>"obnoxious", "obscure", "obstacle" and "obstruct" all of which have a
>negative sense. It is easy to infer, without analysis, that "ob" creates
>or contributes to the negativity.
Except on Usenet where it means "obligatory" (and is sometimes taken by noobs
>On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:15:15 +0100, "Guy Barry"
><guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>I can't see anything wrong with "obverse". It comes from "ob-" ("towards")
>>plus "vertere" ("turn"), so the meaning is the side that's turned towards
>>the observer.
>>
>Indeed. However many English users are unfamiliar with the origin and
>meaning of the prefix "ob". They are likely to guess the general sense
>of "ob" from familiar words such as "objection", "obscene", "obdurate",
>"obnoxious", "obscure", "obstacle" and "obstruct" all of which have a
>negative sense. It is easy to infer, without analysis, that "ob" creates
>or contributes to the negativity.
for "obvious")....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Robert Bannister
Oct 14, 2014, 7:24:27 PM10/14/14
to
On 14/10/2014 10:57 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> At the airport in Nairobi, there was a container in which departing
> tourists could deposit their Kenyan coins and the proceeds would go to
> some charity. A (Kenyan) shilling, at that time, was worth about 6
> cents American, and I had a pocketful that went into the container.
>
> I thought that was a marvelous idea, and that more countries should
> adopt the practice.
Great idea. I'll see if I can sneak a container into Perth airport. I
> At the airport in Nairobi, there was a container in which departing
> tourists could deposit their Kenyan coins and the proceeds would go to
> some charity. A (Kenyan) shilling, at that time, was worth about 6
> cents American, and I had a pocketful that went into the container.
>
> I thought that was a marvelous idea, and that more countries should
> adopt the practice.
need some money.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Robert Bannister
Oct 14, 2014, 7:29:23 PM10/14/14
to
On 15/10/2014 3:04 am, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:15:15 +0100, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> "Phil Carmody" wrote in message news:87ppduw...@bazspaz.fatphil.org...
>>
>>> ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
>>> is a little perverse? Are they just trying to say it's the
>>> opposite of the "reverse"? But what's the "reverse" the reverse
>>> of? Whatever that is, that's what the "obverse" should be
>>> called instead.
>>
>> I can't see anything wrong with "obverse". It comes from "ob-" ("towards")
>> plus "vertere" ("turn"), so the meaning is the side that's turned towards
>> the observer.
>>
> Indeed. However many English users are unfamiliar with the origin and
> meaning of the prefix "ob". They are likely to guess the general sense
> of "ob" from familiar words such as "objection", "obscene", "obdurate",
> "obnoxious", "obscure", "obstacle" and "obstruct" all of which have a
> negative sense. It is easy to infer, without analysis, that "ob" creates
> or contributes to the negativity.
Indeed. I have never seen an explanation of "ob-" before and it does
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:15:15 +0100, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> "Phil Carmody" wrote in message news:87ppduw...@bazspaz.fatphil.org...
>>
>>> ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
>>> is a little perverse? Are they just trying to say it's the
>>> opposite of the "reverse"? But what's the "reverse" the reverse
>>> of? Whatever that is, that's what the "obverse" should be
>>> called instead.
>>
>> I can't see anything wrong with "obverse". It comes from "ob-" ("towards")
>> plus "vertere" ("turn"), so the meaning is the side that's turned towards
>> the observer.
>>
> Indeed. However many English users are unfamiliar with the origin and
> meaning of the prefix "ob". They are likely to guess the general sense
> of "ob" from familiar words such as "objection", "obscene", "obdurate",
> "obnoxious", "obscure", "obstacle" and "obstruct" all of which have a
> negative sense. It is easy to infer, without analysis, that "ob" creates
> or contributes to the negativity.
make me wonder why "obverse" and "adverse" are so different. I always
thought there was some meaning of "difficulty" involved.
Robert Bannister
Oct 14, 2014, 7:31:55 PM10/14/14
to
On 14/10/2014 11:46 am, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
I suppose it is neat, but it hardly trips off the tongue: "Heads or
occiputs (occiputi?)".
> On Monday, October 13, 2014 6:51:25 PM UTC-4, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> Usually the choice when you looking at the vertical height of something:
>> foot of mountain or cliff, but no head. On the other hand,
>> "dressed/covered/bespattered from head to foot" with people. With a
>> coin, you're not looking at head-foot, so much as front and back, but
>> which is the front? Many nations would have been familiar with coins
>> depicting a head/face, so the question is not "What is the opposite?" so
>> much as "What is on the other side?", but we don't have a neat word for
>> the "back of the head" or else we might have used it.
>
> Occiput?
>
>> Usually the choice when you looking at the vertical height of something:
>> foot of mountain or cliff, but no head. On the other hand,
>> "dressed/covered/bespattered from head to foot" with people. With a
>> coin, you're not looking at head-foot, so much as front and back, but
>> which is the front? Many nations would have been familiar with coins
>> depicting a head/face, so the question is not "What is the opposite?" so
>> much as "What is on the other side?", but we don't have a neat word for
>> the "back of the head" or else we might have used it.
>
>
I suppose it is neat, but it hardly trips off the tongue: "Heads or
occiputs (occiputi?)".
Robert Bannister
Oct 14, 2014, 7:34:30 PM10/14/14
to
On 14/10/2014 5:28 pm, Tom P wrote:
> On 14.10.2014 01:58, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Robert Bannister skrev:
>>
>>> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back? - There are a few to
>>> choose from, but not that many and many early coins, in societies where
>>> the technology was available, depicted their ruler's head on one side.
>>
>> In Danish we say "plat eller krone". I don't think that "plat"
>> means anything here though it is a current word. "Krone" means
>> "crown" and refers to the side with our majesty with a crown.
>>
> In German the common terms are "Kopf oder Zahl", and "Kopf oder Adler",
> meaning "head or number" and "head or eagle" respectively.
>
> Now I'd like to make a suggestion for the origin of "heads or tails" -
> the Thaler was a silver coin used throughout Europe for almost four
> hundred years. There were many variations, but typically there was the
> bust of a monarch on the obverse and the coat of arms on the reverse.
>
> The word "tails" could be a corruption of "thaler". Opinions?
>
>
We know "dollar" is a corruption of "Thaler", so it seems unlikely. I am
sure there were coins with heads on long before the Marienthaler.
> On 14.10.2014 01:58, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Robert Bannister skrev:
>>
>>> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back? - There are a few to
>>> choose from, but not that many and many early coins, in societies where
>>> the technology was available, depicted their ruler's head on one side.
>>
>> In Danish we say "plat eller krone". I don't think that "plat"
>> means anything here though it is a current word. "Krone" means
>> "crown" and refers to the side with our majesty with a crown.
>>
> In German the common terms are "Kopf oder Zahl", and "Kopf oder Adler",
> meaning "head or number" and "head or eagle" respectively.
>
> Now I'd like to make a suggestion for the origin of "heads or tails" -
> the Thaler was a silver coin used throughout Europe for almost four
> hundred years. There were many variations, but typically there was the
> bust of a monarch on the obverse and the coat of arms on the reverse.
>
> The word "tails" could be a corruption of "thaler". Opinions?
>
>
We know "dollar" is a corruption of "Thaler", so it seems unlikely. I am
sure there were coins with heads on long before the Marienthaler.
Robert Bannister
Oct 14, 2014, 7:35:15 PM10/14/14
to
On 14/10/2014 7:50 pm, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2014-10-13, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>>> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>>>
>> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back?
>
> I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
> instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
> Whence the plural?
>
Genitive form for adverbs?
> On 2014-10-13, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>>> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>>>
>> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back?
>
> I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
> instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
> Whence the plural?
>
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
snide...@gmail.com
Oct 14, 2014, 8:26:48 PM10/14/14
to
On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 5:19:26 PM UTC-7, Lewis wrote:
> > (GG doesn't normally let you post to a thread that old, but sometimes
> > it will spot the matching title and pretend there was a references.)
>
> GG is a total shitpile.
> > (GG doesn't normally let you post to a thread that old, but sometimes
> > it will spot the matching title and pretend there was a references.)
>
No.
It's just a different shitpile than the one you like.
/dps
Steve Hayes
Oct 14, 2014, 11:04:39 PM10/14/14
to
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Charles Bishop
Oct 14, 2014, 11:23:03 PM10/14/14
to
In article <9KmdnVLu7Ji046DJ...@vex.net>,
Charles, don't know why, oddduckwise
m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> Christian Weisgerber:
> > There has been some related discussion on Language Log about
> > hard-to-remember[1] terms that have contrasting meanings...
>
> > [1] To hyphenate or not to hyphenate?
>
> Hyphenate! Hyphenate! Hyphenate!
I somehow see the hand of Aristophanes there.
> Christian Weisgerber:
> > There has been some related discussion on Language Log about
> > hard-to-remember[1] terms that have contrasting meanings...
>
> > [1] To hyphenate or not to hyphenate?
>
> Hyphenate! Hyphenate! Hyphenate!
Charles, don't know why, oddduckwise
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 15, 2014, 12:00:12 AM10/15/14
to
Dr Nick
Oct 15, 2014, 2:39:58 AM10/15/14
to
Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
> Isn't there a programming language (Lisp?) that has heads and tails?
In computing lists and queues and things have heads and tails
> Isn't there a programming language (Lisp?) that has heads and tails?
HTML though has a head and a body. And is sent with a header.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 15, 2014, 6:52:00 AM10/15/14
to
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 07:24:27 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>On 14/10/2014 10:57 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> At the airport in Nairobi, there was a container in which departing
>> tourists could deposit their Kenyan coins and the proceeds would go to
>> some charity. A (Kenyan) shilling, at that time, was worth about 6
>> cents American, and I had a pocketful that went into the container.
>>
>> I thought that was a marvelous idea, and that more countries should
>> adopt the practice.
>
>Great idea. I'll see if I can sneak a container into Perth airport. I
>need some money.
Good luck!
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>On 14/10/2014 10:57 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> At the airport in Nairobi, there was a container in which departing
>> tourists could deposit their Kenyan coins and the proceeds would go to
>> some charity. A (Kenyan) shilling, at that time, was worth about 6
>> cents American, and I had a pocketful that went into the container.
>>
>> I thought that was a marvelous idea, and that more countries should
>> adopt the practice.
>
>Great idea. I'll see if I can sneak a container into Perth airport. I
>need some money.
A container left in an airport without the knowledge or approval of the
management of the premises is likely to be treated as a potential bomb.
Stan Brown
Oct 15, 2014, 7:41:05 AM10/15/14
to
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 15:51:19 +0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>
> There has been some related discussion on Language Log about
> hard-to-remember[1] terms that have contrasting meanings. The
>
>
> There has been some related discussion on Language Log about
> hard-to-remember[1] terms that have contrasting meanings. The
>
> [1] To hyphenate or not to hyphenate?
Hyphenate, definitely. It's a multi-word adjective preceding its
noun.
--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com
Guy Barry
Oct 15, 2014, 7:56:19 AM10/15/14
to
"Mark Brader" wrote in message
news:wvCdne0_A4Cl4qDJ...@vex.net...
conventional definitions now, but the tails side definitely "feels" more
like the front to me, because that's the side that tells you the value of
the coin.
--
Guy Barry
news:wvCdne0_A4Cl4qDJ...@vex.net...
>
>Phil Carmody:
>> ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
>> is a little perverse? ...
>
>What *I* think is that using *"reverse"* for the front is perverse.
>
>(When one side of every denomination of coin has the same image of
>the Queen, and the same wording identifying her, and nothing else,
>isn't it obvious that that -- the heads side -- is the back?
>Cf. playing cards.)
You know, that's what I always thought as a child. I've got used to the
>Phil Carmody:
>> ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
>> is a little perverse? ...
>
>What *I* think is that using *"reverse"* for the front is perverse.
>
>(When one side of every denomination of coin has the same image of
>the Queen, and the same wording identifying her, and nothing else,
>isn't it obvious that that -- the heads side -- is the back?
>Cf. playing cards.)
conventional definitions now, but the tails side definitely "feels" more
like the front to me, because that's the side that tells you the value of
the coin.
--
Guy Barry
Anders D. Nygaard
Oct 15, 2014, 12:35:46 PM10/15/14
to
On 14-10-2014 01:58, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Robert Bannister skrev:
>
>> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back? - There are a few to
>> choose from, but not that many and many early coins, in societies where
>> the technology was available, depicted their ruler's head on one side.
>
> In Danish we say "plat eller krone".
True.
> Robert Bannister skrev:
>
>> What is the choice? Top or bottom, front or back? - There are a few to
>> choose from, but not that many and many early coins, in societies where
>> the technology was available, depicted their ruler's head on one side.
>
> In Danish we say "plat eller krone".
> I don't think that "plat" means anything here
The Danish etymological dictionary seems to agree with me.
> though it is a current word.
specific context.
> "Krone" means "crown"
True.
> and refers to the side with our majesty with a crown.
The majesty is "plat" (Frederik IX never wore a crown on the coins,
AFAIK, though Margrethe II did).
In smaller, present-day coins there is no majesty, but one side has
three crowns and the majesty's monogram. The other side contains
the value, the text "Danmark" and some curlicues.
The larger coins still have the coat of arms - and a crown, so would
be "krone" if you used them for flipping. The other side does have
a portrait of the majesty, but wearing a diadem, not a crown.
Anders.
Phil Carmody
Oct 15, 2014, 3:38:15 PM10/15/14
to
m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) writes:
> Phil Carmody:
> > ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
> > is a little perverse? ...
>
> What *I* think is that using *"reverse"* for the front is perverse.
>
> (When one side of every denomination of coin has the same image of
> the Queen, and the same wording identifying her, and nothing else,
> isn't it obvious that that -- the heads side -- is the back?
> Cf. playing cards.)
The crown is the proof that it is what it is, the pictures on
> Phil Carmody:
> > ObAUE: Anyone else think that using "obverse" for the front
> > is a little perverse? ...
>
> What *I* think is that using *"reverse"* for the front is perverse.
>
> (When one side of every denomination of coin has the same image of
> the Queen, and the same wording identifying her, and nothing else,
> isn't it obvious that that -- the heads side -- is the back?
> Cf. playing cards.)
the back are mere decoration, surely?
Phil
--
The best part of re-inventing the wheel is that you get to pick how
many sides the new one has. -- egcagrac0 on SoylentNews
John Varela
Oct 15, 2014, 4:44:09 PM10/15/14
to
http://www.humanities.mq.edu.au/acans/caesar/CivilWars_Cleopatra.htm
From the above it doesn't appear that she was a great beauty.
--
John Varela
John Varela
Oct 15, 2014, 4:52:23 PM10/15/14
to
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 23:51:05 UTC, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan
Ram) wrote:
> Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> writes:
> >>I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
> >>instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
> >>Whence the plural?
> >Genitive form for adverbs?
>
> Does not have to be for adverbs, but could also be possibly
> for possessives, like - for example - »the head's side«
> becoming »the head's« and then - by corruption - »heads«.
Or the terms were originally "head side" and "tail side". Then the
terms were shortened, with the s of "side" transferred to the "head"
and "tail".
--
John Varela
Ram) wrote:
> Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> writes:
> >>I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
> >>instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
> >>Whence the plural?
> >Genitive form for adverbs?
>
> for possessives, like - for example - »the head's side«
> becoming »the head's« and then - by corruption - »heads«.
Or the terms were originally "head side" and "tail side". Then the
terms were shortened, with the s of "side" transferred to the "head"
and "tail".
--
John Varela
Adam Funk
Oct 15, 2014, 4:56:16 PM10/15/14
to
On 2014-10-13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Monday, October 13, 2014 3:01:51 AM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>
> It might be especially confusing in Europe, where each country puts different
> images on both sides -- seems like only the monarchies use people's heads
> on the obverse, and the reverses are entirely up to the whim of the designer.
>
> Where are you that has a donkey on the back? Our Buffalo Nickels went out
> many decades ago.
That would be "heads or asses" --- which raises the question even
higher: why "heads or tails" rather than "head or tail"?
--
A man can't just sit around.
--- Larry Walters
> On Monday, October 13, 2014 3:01:51 AM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>
> images on both sides -- seems like only the monarchies use people's heads
> on the obverse, and the reverses are entirely up to the whim of the designer.
>
> Where are you that has a donkey on the back? Our Buffalo Nickels went out
> many decades ago.
That would be "heads or asses" --- which raises the question even
higher: why "heads or tails" rather than "head or tail"?
--
A man can't just sit around.
--- Larry Walters
Adam Funk
Oct 15, 2014, 5:13:54 PM10/15/14
to
Romans call the two sides for gambling (which we know was popular
then)?
--
No right of private conversation was enumerated in the Constitution.
I don't suppose it occurred to anyone at the time that it could be
prevented. [Whitfield Diffie]
Adam Funk
Oct 15, 2014, 5:08:20 PM10/15/14
to
could be wrong) that "tail" is much more common among Prolog
programmers (I used to be one) than among LISP programmers (who
usually say "cdr").
--
Nam Sibbyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla
pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: beable beable beable; respondebat
illa: doidy doidy doidy. [plorkwort]
Adam Funk
Oct 15, 2014, 5:10:14 PM10/15/14
to
On 2014-10-13, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2014-10-13, k.sout...@gmail.com <k.sout...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's
>> a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey"
>> had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from.
>
> What's at the other end from the head? There you go.
most countries' coins have traditionally had someone's head on one (&
only one) side. It's "face ou pile" in French --- what is it in
German?
--
Slade was the coolest band in England. They were the kind of guys
that would push your car out of a ditch. --- Alice Cooper
> On 2014-10-13, k.sout...@gmail.com <k.sout...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's
>> a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey"
>> had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from.
>
>
> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
That's what I find strange about it. "Head" would make sense, since
> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
most countries' coins have traditionally had someone's head on one (&
only one) side. It's "face ou pile" in French --- what is it in
German?
--
Slade was the coolest band in England. They were the kind of guys
that would push your car out of a ditch. --- Alice Cooper
Adam Funk
Oct 15, 2014, 5:06:26 PM10/15/14
to
On 2014-10-13, R H Draney wrote:
> k.sout...@gmail.com filted:
>
> From the LISP keywords "car" and "cdr", related to the Latin "caput" and
> "caudam" respectively....r
I refer you to plorkwort's poem on the subject from a few years ago:
http://www.newsfroup.net/poetry/other.shtml#carscdr
--
Thinking about her this morning, lying in bed, and trying to get my
thoughts on the right track, I reached into the drawer of the bedstand,
and found the Gideons' Bible, and I was going for the Psalms, friend, honest
I was, but I found the Song of Solomon instead. --- Garrison Keillor
> k.sout...@gmail.com filted:
>>
>>My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the
>>other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the
>>term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
>>My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the
>>other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the
>
> From the LISP keywords "car" and "cdr", related to the Latin "caput" and
> "caudam" respectively....r
I refer you to plorkwort's poem on the subject from a few years ago:
http://www.newsfroup.net/poetry/other.shtml#carscdr
--
Thinking about her this morning, lying in bed, and trying to get my
thoughts on the right track, I reached into the drawer of the bedstand,
and found the Gideons' Bible, and I was going for the Psalms, friend, honest
I was, but I found the Song of Solomon instead. --- Garrison Keillor
Christian Weisgerber
Oct 15, 2014, 3:54:58 PM10/15/14
to
On 2014-10-14, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>> I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
>> instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
>> Whence the plural?
>>
> Genitive form for adverbs?
"Heads or tails" doesn't look adverbial to me.
>> I'll repeat the question for clarity: Why is it "heads or tails"
>> instead of "head or tail", even when referring to a single coin?
>> Whence the plural?
>>
> Genitive form for adverbs?
Also, has that type of derivation been used at all post-Old English?
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Christian Weisgerber
Oct 15, 2014, 6:42:55 PM10/15/14
to
On 2014-10-15, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>
> That's what I find strange about it. "Head" would make sense, since
> most countries' coins have traditionally had someone's head on one (&
> only one) side. It's "face ou pile" in French --- what is it in
> German?
"Kopf oder Zahl" (head or number), as already mentioned in this thread.
>> But why is it head_s_ or tail_s_?
>
> That's what I find strange about it. "Head" would make sense, since
> most countries' coins have traditionally had someone's head on one (&
> only one) side. It's "face ou pile" in French --- what is it in
> German?
Which was odd enough for me when I grew up, because only one of the
German Mark coins actually had a head on one side.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Mark#Coins
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Oct 15, 2014, 9:00:36 PM10/15/14
to
Adam Funk wrote:
>
> It's "face ou pile" in French
>
"face ou pile" = 7,480 Google hits
>
> It's "face ou pile" in French
>
"pile ou face" = 663,000 Google hits
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 15, 2014, 11:16:26 PM10/15/14
to
On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 4:56:16 PM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2014-10-13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Monday, October 13, 2014 3:01:51 AM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
> On 2014-10-13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Monday, October 13, 2014 3:01:51 AM UTC-4, k.sout...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> My 6 year old asks "heads or bird" confused and she said there's a bird on the other side. The other day she says "heads or donkey" had me wondering where the term heads or tails came from. Thanks for the answer.
> > Where are you that has a donkey on the back? Our Buffalo Nickels went out
> > many decades ago.
>
> That would be "heads or asses" --- which raises the question even
> higher: why "heads or tails" rather than "head or tail"?
That was OP's original question.
> > many decades ago.
>
> That would be "heads or asses" --- which raises the question even
> higher: why "heads or tails" rather than "head or tail"?
This afternoon I heard a consumer affairs attorney talking about some
problem or other on the radio, and he said "And the obverse of that
situation is ...."
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 15, 2014, 11:17:44 PM10/15/14
to
On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:13:54 PM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> Roman coins always (?) had the emperor on one side. What did the
> Romans call the two sides for gambling (which we know was popular
> then)?
There were Roman coins long before there were Roman emperors.
> Roman coins always (?) had the emperor on one side. What did the
> Romans call the two sides for gambling (which we know was popular
> then)?
Peter Brooks
Oct 16, 2014, 12:48:01 AM10/16/14
to
On Monday, 2 October 2000 09:00:00 UTC+2, N.Mitchum wrote:
> my gold wrote:
> -----
> > Where did the phrase "heads or tails" originate and what is its history
> > and why tails was there a coin that had a tail on one of the side?
> >......
>
> I believe the reverse side of a coin is called "tails" simply
> because on the other side there most often is a head -- and one
> antonym of "head" is "tail."
>
That'd be my first thought, and, it being the King's head on the front, 'tail' was probably wiser than 'arse'.
The OED gives the following, suggesting, by implication, that a headless coin hasn't a tail:
"
b.I.3.b The obverse side of a coin, when bearing the figure of a head; the reverse being called the tail; in phr. head(s) or tail(s), used in tossing a coin to decide a chance. heads I win, (and) tails you lose, I win whatever happens. colloq
"
and
"
h.4.h The reverse side of a coin; esp. in phr. head(s or tail(s: see head n.1 3 b.
1684 Otway Atheist ii. i, As Boys do with their Farthings‥go to Heads or Tails for 'em. 1764 Bridges Burlesque Homer (1774) 115 (Farmer) 'Tis heads for Greece, and Tails for Troy.‥ Two farthings out of three were Tails. 1801 Strutt Sports & Past. iv. ii. (1810) 296 The reverse of the head being called the tail without respect to the figure upon it. 1884 Punch 16 Feb. 73/1 A sovereign, a half sovereign,‥or farthing, so long as it has a ‘head’ one side, and‥a ‘tail’ the other. 1893 F. Adams New Egypt 267 The goddess who sits on the ‘tails’ side of our bronze currency.
"
> my gold wrote:
> -----
> > Where did the phrase "heads or tails" originate and what is its history
> > and why tails was there a coin that had a tail on one of the side?
> >......
>
> I believe the reverse side of a coin is called "tails" simply
> because on the other side there most often is a head -- and one
> antonym of "head" is "tail."
>
That'd be my first thought, and, it being the King's head on the front, 'tail' was probably wiser than 'arse'.
The OED gives the following, suggesting, by implication, that a headless coin hasn't a tail:
"
b.I.3.b The obverse side of a coin, when bearing the figure of a head; the reverse being called the tail; in phr. head(s) or tail(s), used in tossing a coin to decide a chance. heads I win, (and) tails you lose, I win whatever happens. colloq
"
and
"
h.4.h The reverse side of a coin; esp. in phr. head(s or tail(s: see head n.1 3 b.
1684 Otway Atheist ii. i, As Boys do with their Farthings‥go to Heads or Tails for 'em. 1764 Bridges Burlesque Homer (1774) 115 (Farmer) 'Tis heads for Greece, and Tails for Troy.‥ Two farthings out of three were Tails. 1801 Strutt Sports & Past. iv. ii. (1810) 296 The reverse of the head being called the tail without respect to the figure upon it. 1884 Punch 16 Feb. 73/1 A sovereign, a half sovereign,‥or farthing, so long as it has a ‘head’ one side, and‥a ‘tail’ the other. 1893 F. Adams New Egypt 267 The goddess who sits on the ‘tails’ side of our bronze currency.
"
Adam Funk
Oct 16, 2014, 5:41:04 AM10/16/14
to
coins.
--
When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him
whose? --- Don Marquis
Adam Funk
Oct 16, 2014, 5:39:45 AM10/16/14
to
On 2014-10-14, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Seems like you don't know much about European money. They have no bills
> smaller than 5 euros, so I had a pocketful of big heavy ugly brass-
> colored coins, but I know from experience that they cannot get changed
Oh, I guess you had to get all your trousers repaired after that trip.
> to US currency in the uaual ways, so I was careful to spend as many of
> the coins as I could. There was nowhere in the airport that sold anything
> for either 80c or 5,80. A number of souvenirs were priced at 4,90, but
> that would have stuck me with 90c in useless coins instead of 80c.
That's part of the worldwide currency exchange swindle.
--
"Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water,
or rain water, and only pure grain alcohol?" [Dr Strangelove]
> Seems like you don't know much about European money. They have no bills
> smaller than 5 euros, so I had a pocketful of big heavy ugly brass-
> colored coins, but I know from experience that they cannot get changed
Oh, I guess you had to get all your trousers repaired after that trip.
> to US currency in the uaual ways, so I was careful to spend as many of
> the coins as I could. There was nowhere in the airport that sold anything
> for either 80c or 5,80. A number of souvenirs were priced at 4,90, but
> that would have stuck me with 90c in useless coins instead of 80c.
That's part of the worldwide currency exchange swindle.
--
"Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water,
or rain water, and only pure grain alcohol?" [Dr Strangelove]
Adam Funk
Oct 16, 2014, 5:42:29 AM10/16/14
to
On 2014-10-16, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
> Adam Funk wrote:
>>
>> It's "face ou pile" in French
>>
> "face ou pile" = 7,480 Google hits
> "pile ou face" = 663,000 Google hits
Right, thanks.
> Adam Funk wrote:
>>
>> It's "face ou pile" in French
>>
> "face ou pile" = 7,480 Google hits
> "pile ou face" = 663,000 Google hits
Adam Funk
Oct 16, 2014, 5:37:45 AM10/16/14
to
one side.
--
Most Americans are too civilized to hang skulls from baskets, having
been headhunters, of course, only as recently as Vietnam.
--- Kinky Friedman
Adam Funk
Oct 16, 2014, 5:42:17 AM10/16/14
to
That's another example of people trying to show off by using jargon
they don't understand.
--
A heretic is someone who shares ALMOST all your beliefs.
Kill him. --- Ivan Stang
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