Benzene/benzine/gasoline/petrol

[James Wilkinson Sword]

How come the Dutch call petrol/gasoline "benzine", when benzene is a 6 carbon circular molecule, and petrol/gasoline is an 8 carbon straight molecule?

[Andreas Karrer]

* James Wilkinson Sword <imv...@somewear.com>:

> How come the Dutch call petrol/gasoline "benzine", when benzene is a 6 carbon circular molecule, and petrol/gasoline is an 8 carbon straight molecule?

Petrol/gasoline is not a "8 carbon straight molecule", e.g. n-octane.
It is a mixture of several hydrocarbons, from C-5 to C-12, most with
C-6 to C-10, some cyclic, some aromatic. Octane has a special
significance because it is used to define the octane rating, but it's
not n-octane, but "iso-octane", e.g. 2,2,4-Trimethylpentane. It is not
the main part of gasoline/petrol.

The name "Benzin" for the common car fuel that is not diesel is used in
many languages (with slight variations): german, dutch, russian,
hungarian, norwegian, swedish, turkish, italian, finnish, arabic,
greek, etc. In contrast, rather few languages use the terms "gasoline"
or "petrol" or variants thereof.

French uses "gazole" for diesel (not for gasoline) and "essence" for
petrol/gasoline.

The aromatic C6H6 compound was named "Benzin" by Eilhard Mitscherlich,
a german chemist. This is where the english "benzene" comes from.
However, Justus von Liebig, another, more famous german chemist, called
the same compound "Benzol", and that name stuck in german and some
other languages.

German has also "Petroleum" and its abbreviation "Petrol", this is what
Americans call "kerosene". It's is not the same as "petrol" (BE) or
"petroleum".

The german term "Kerosin", however, is what is called "jet fuel" in
english.

- Andi

[Ross]

On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 8:08:44 PM UTC+12, Andreas Karrer wrote:
> * James Wilkinson Sword <imv...@somewear.com>:
> > How come the Dutch call petrol/gasoline "benzine", when benzene is a 6 carbon circular molecule, and petrol/gasoline is an 8 carbon straight molecule?
>
> Petrol/gasoline is not a "8 carbon straight molecule", e.g. n-octane.
> It is a mixture of several hydrocarbons, from C-5 to C-12, most with
> C-6 to C-10, some cyclic, some aromatic. Octane has a special
> significance because it is used to define the octane rating, but it's
> not n-octane, but "iso-octane", e.g. 2,2,4-Trimethylpentane. It is not
> the main part of gasoline/petrol.
>
> The name "Benzin" for the common car fuel that is not diesel is used in
> many languages (with slight variations): german, dutch, russian,
> hungarian, norwegian, swedish, turkish, italian, finnish, arabic,
> greek, etc.

Also Bislama, Tok Pisin and many other Pacific languages.

[J. J. Lodder]

They do call benzene 'benzeen',
in line with general chemical terminology.
(and petrol/gasoline 'benzine')
But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
(lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)

And just curious:
you straightened out all those gasoline molecules yourself?

What's queer gasoline?

Jan

[Paul Carmichael]

El 04/09/17 a las 10:08, Andreas Karrer escribió:

> In contrast, rather few languages use the terms "gasoline"
> or "petrol" or variants thereof.

I believe the word "petrol" was a trade name which got hijacked a la hoover.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/
https://asetrad.org

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Mon, 4 Sep 2017 12:07:43 +0200, Paul Carmichael
<wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:

>El 04/09/17 a las 10:08, Andreas Karrer escribió:
>> In contrast, rather few languages use the terms "gasoline"
>> or "petrol" or variants thereof.
>
>I believe the word "petrol" was a trade name which got hijacked a la hoover.

Apparently not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Etymology_and_terminology

British refiners originally used "motor spirit" as a generic name
for the automotive fuel and "aviation spirit" for aviation gasoline.
When Carless {a British wholesale company} was denied a trademark on
"petrol" in the 1930s, its competitors switched to the more popular
name "petrol". However, "motor spirit" had already made its way into
laws and regulations, so the term remains in use as a formal name
for petrol. The term is used most widely in Nigeria,...

That section also discusses the origin of the word "gasoline":

"Gasoline" is the term that is used in North America to refer to the
most popular automobile fuel. The Oxford English Dictionary dates
the first use to 1863, when it was spelled "gasolene". On 27
November 1862, publisher, coffee merchant, and social campaigner
John Cassell placed an advertisement in The Times:

The Patent Cazeline Oil, safe, economical, and brilliant …
possesses all the requisites which have so long been desired as
a means of powerful artificial light.

This is the earliest occurrence of the word to have been found.
Cassell discovered that a shopkeeper in Dublin named Samuel Boyd was
selling counterfeit cazeline and wrote to him to ask him to stop.
Boyd did not reply and changed every ‘C’ into a ‘G’, thus coining
the word "gazeline". The word may also derive from older trademarks.
Variant spellings of "gasoline" had been used to refer to raw
petroleum since the 16th century.

The OED says that the "Caz" in "Cazeline" 'presumably shows an
alteration of Cassell's surname'.

One of the quotations in the OED in the entry for "petrol", the fuel,
is:

1897 Westm. Gaz. 26 July 5/1 The death by fire of a lady in a
hairdresser's shop while having her hair dressed with a
preparation known as petrole.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[J. J. Lodder]

Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:

> El 04/09/17 a las 10:08, Andreas Karrer escribió:
> > In contrast, rather few languages use the terms "gasoline"
> > or "petrol" or variants thereof.
>
> I believe the word "petrol" was a trade name which got hijacked a la hoover.

All those names for fuels are really quite a mess between languages,
with more false friends than correspondences.
Correct translation requires look-up, or even technical knowledge.

Dutch uses 'petroleum' for lamp oil,
(E.kerosine) heating oil for heaters with wicks,
and for low-grade diesel-like fuel
that can be used for agricultural machinery,
or old-timer boat engines.

Both words occur together in Dutch 'petroleumvergasser',
which are old-fashioned burners that work
by burning petrolem vapour.
(for cooking, lighting or soldering)
These need pre-heating to get started.

Nowadays most often seen as polished brass antiques.
The most famous perhaps is the Swedish 'Primus Stove'
used by Roald Amundsen even at the South Pole,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Sep 2017 12:07:43 +0200, Paul Carmichael
> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >El 04/09/17 a las 10:08, Andreas Karrer escribió:
> >> In contrast, rather few languages use the terms "gasoline"
> >> or "petrol" or variants thereof.
> >
> >I believe the word "petrol" was a trade name which got hijacked a la hoover.
>
> Apparently not.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Etymology_and_terminology
>
> British refiners originally used "motor spirit" as a generic name
> for the automotive fuel and "aviation spirit" for aviation gasoline.
> When Carless {a British wholesale company} was denied a trademark on
> "petrol" in the 1930s, its competitors switched to the more popular
> name "petrol". However, "motor spirit" had already made its way into
> laws and regulations, so the term remains in use as a formal name
> for petrol. The term is used most widely in Nigeria,...
>
> That section also discusses the origin of the word "gasoline":
>
> "Gasoline" is the term that is used in North America to refer to the
> most popular automobile fuel. The Oxford English Dictionary dates
> the first use to 1863, when it was spelled "gasolene". On 27
> November 1862, publisher, coffee merchant, and social campaigner
> John Cassell placed an advertisement in The Times:
>

> The Patent Cazeline Oil, safe, economical, and brilliant -

> possesses all the requisites which have so long been desired as
> a means of powerful artificial light.
>
> This is the earliest occurrence of the word to have been found.
> Cassell discovered that a shopkeeper in Dublin named Samuel Boyd was
> selling counterfeit cazeline and wrote to him to ask him to stop.
> Boyd did not reply and changed every 'C' into a 'G', thus coining
> the word "gazeline". The word may also derive from older trademarks.
> Variant spellings of "gasoline" had been used to refer to raw
> petroleum since the 16th century.
>
> The OED says that the "Caz" in "Cazeline" 'presumably shows an
> alteration of Cassell's surname'.
>
> One of the quotations in the OED in the entry for "petrol", the fuel,
> is:
>
> 1897 Westm. Gaz. 26 July 5/1 The death by fire of a lady in a
> hairdresser's shop while having her hair dressed with a
> preparation known as petrole.

That would be French 'pétrole' I guess,
best known under its brand name Pétrole Hahn,

Jan

<https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pétrole_Hahn>
(no English version of the page)

[Pierre Jelenc]

In article <1nbtre4.cx...@de-ster.xs4all.nl>,

J. J. Lodder <jjl...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>(lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)

Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural, I've no
idea).

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org

[Pierre Jelenc]

In article <slrnoqq2g7...@chimborazo.ee.ethz.ch>,

Andreas Karrer <ak...@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>French uses "gazole" for diesel (not for gasoline) and "essence" for
>petrol/gasoline.

... and "benzine" for petroleum ether

[Reinhold {Rey} Aman]

Pierre Jelenc wrote:

>
> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>
>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>
> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
> I've no idea).
>

Same in German: _Gas geben_.

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~

[J. J. Lodder]

Reinhold {Rey} Aman <am...@sonic.net> wrote:

> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
> >
> > J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>
> >> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
> >> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
> >
> > Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
> > I've no idea).
> >
> Same in German: _Gas geben_.

Probably the other way round.
'gas geven' in Dutch may well be a Germanism.

And literally correct of course,
when you open the throttle the engine gets more vapour,
(aka gas) not more fluid.

Jan

[Whiskers]

And by me, up on the moors. We called their fuel 'paraffin'. There
were also models (and other makes) which used petrol (gasoline, essence)
- and indeed both types are still available from your friendly local
camping supplies retailer. To add further confusion, there's even
something called 'white fuel' or 'white petrol' which is a sort of less
adulterated version of the petrol used in cars. Not to be confused with
'white spirit' which painters use for cleaning brushes.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Peter Moylan]

On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>
>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>
>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>> I've no idea).
>>
> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>

Or in English: step on the gas.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Paul Carmichael]

El 05/09/17 a las 16:59, Peter Moylan escribió:

> On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>>
>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>>>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>>
>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>>> I've no idea).
>>>
>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>>
> Or in English: step on the gas.
>

Well, I'd say on the throttle. Even though I suspect throttle originally referred to the
choke.

I might also say give it beans.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 8:59:48 AM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
> > Pierre Jelenc wrote:
> >>
> >> J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>
> >>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
> >>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
> >>
> >> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
> >> I've no idea).
> >>
> > Same in German: _Gas geben_.
> >
> Or in English: step on the gas.

Or give it some gas.

Mexican (at least) Spanish "Dale gas".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Whiskers]

I press the accelerator. With a bit of luck, some acceleration ensues.

Will we still speak of 'gas' when making our electric cars go faster?

[HVS]

On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:48:37 +0100, Whiskers
<catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:

-snip -

> Will we still speak of 'gas' when making our electric cars go
faster?

Don't see why not - people still dial telephone numbers.

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed

[J. J. Lodder]

Of course. Ships still sail,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

AFAIK it has a very low octane rating.
Like 'wasbenzine' in Dutch, 'refined petrol' in English,
used for cleaning purposes.

Anyway, Mr. Coleman solved the naming problem
by renaming it all to 'Coleman fuel',

Jan

[Ross]

When we had a Coleman stove and lamp in the 1950s the fuel was
still called "white gas".

[J. J. Lodder]

It would seem that Mr. Coleman thinks
that this is un-American behaviour.

Support your local monopoly,

Jan

PS I did meet an un-American at a filling station once.
He was taking out the fuel hoses,
to let the remaining petrol in them drip into a small container.
When I asked him why, he told me that he used it
as free fuel for his Coleman thing.

[Adam Funk]

> When we had a Coleman stove and lamp in the 1950s the fuel was
> still called "white gas".

Wasn't that just unleaded at a time when default gasoline was leaded?


--
Now you're climbing to the top of the company ladder
Hope it doesn't take too long
Can't you see there'll come a day when it won't matter?
Come a day when you'll be gone --- Boston

[J. J. Lodder]

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2017-09-05, Ross wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 8:49:29 AM UTC+12, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > And by me, up on the moors. We called their fuel 'paraffin'. There
> >> > were also models (and other makes) which used petrol (gasoline, essence)
> >> > - and indeed both types are still available from your friendly local
> >> > camping supplies retailer. To add further confusion, there's even
> >> > something called 'white fuel' or 'white petrol' which is a sort of less
> >> > adulterated version of the petrol used in cars. Not to be confused with
> >> > 'white spirit' which painters use for cleaning brushes.
> >>
> >> AFAIK it has a very low octane rating.
> >> Like 'wasbenzine' in Dutch, 'refined petrol' in English,
> >> used for cleaning purposes.
> >>
> >> Anyway, Mr. Coleman solved the naming problem
> >> by renaming it all to 'Coleman fuel',
>
> > When we had a Coleman stove and lamp in the 1950s the fuel was
> > still called "white gas".
>
> Wasn't that just unleaded at a time when default gasoline was leaded?

Octane rating was much lower,

Jan

[Whiskers]

Also favoured by users of miniature internal combustion engines.

> Anyway, Mr. Coleman solved the naming problem
> by renaming it all to 'Coleman fuel',
>
> Jan

Well, he tried. It was a jolly good try too. (For our petrol stoves,
we used either the same stuff as went into the car, or the stuff sold
for filling pocket lighters; both worked OK but with different smells
and more muck from the car fuel, which would have been 'leaded' in those
days).

[Whiskers]

On 2017-09-06, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> On 2017-09-05, Ross wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 8:49:29 AM UTC+12, J. J. Lodder
>> wrote:
>>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>
>>> > And by me, up on the moors. We called their fuel 'paraffin'.
>>> > There were also models (and other makes) which used petrol
>>> > (gasoline, essence) - and indeed both types are still available
>>> > from your friendly local camping supplies retailer. To add
>>> > further confusion, there's even something called 'white fuel' or
>>> > 'white petrol' which is a sort of less adulterated version of the
>>> > petrol used in cars. Not to be confused with 'white spirit' which
>>> > painters use for cleaning brushes.
>>>
>>> AFAIK it has a very low octane rating. Like 'wasbenzine' in Dutch,
>>> 'refined petrol' in English, used for cleaning purposes.
>>>
>>> Anyway, Mr. Coleman solved the naming problem by renaming it all to
>>> 'Coleman fuel',
>
>> When we had a Coleman stove and lamp in the 1950s the fuel was still
>> called "white gas".
>
> Wasn't that just unleaded at a time when default gasoline was leaded?

I don't think so. 'Unleaded' was the term for unleaded. The white
petrol had none of the additives needed by car engines, and probably a
different blend of the various combustibles that go to make 'petrol'
(more of the stuff that likes to burn steadily and less of the stuff
that likes to go bang, I suppose).

[Whiskers]

On 2017-09-05, J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

So why don't we 'spur on' our cars, or 'apply the whip'?

[Whiskers]

On 2017-09-05, HVS <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:48:37 +0100, Whiskers
> <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>
> -snip -
>
>> Will we still speak of 'gas' when making our electric cars go
> faster?
>
> Don't see why not - people still dial telephone numbers.

Hmmm. I just find the person in the 'contacts' and touch the telephone
icon. But I think I may have heard the 'dial' usage recently.

[Adam Funk]

On further reflection I think you're right. The Coleman items that
I've used personally were all labelled to the effect that normal
unleaded was fine, but that was from the 1980s onward.


--
With the breakdown of the medieval system, the gods of chaos, lunacy,
and bad taste gained ascendancy. --- Ignatius J Reilly

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 4:38:14 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> PS I did meet an un-American at a filling station once.
> He was taking out the fuel hoses,
> to let the remaining petrol in them drip into a small container.
> When I asked him why, he told me that he used it
> as free fuel for his Coleman thing.

That hasn't been possible at US gas stations for decades. The hoses have safety valves that
prevent drips onto the ground.

[Peter T. Daniels]

> So why don't we 'spur on' our cars, or 'apply the whip'?

We spur on lots of things that aren't horses, though not cars.

"Apply the whip" would always be felt as metaphorical, since whips are still in widespread regular use.

[J. J. Lodder]

Your engine doesn't like the stuf that likes to go bang either.
The term 'explosion engine' is a misnomer,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Some people do make speed by whipping their engine,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

AFAIK they use a methanol/oil mixture. (as did some racing cars)

> > Anyway, Mr. Coleman solved the naming problem
> > by renaming it all to 'Coleman fuel',
> >
> > Jan
>
> Well, he tried. It was a jolly good try too. (For our petrol stoves,
> we used either the same stuff as went into the car, or the stuff sold
> for filling pocket lighters; both worked OK but with different smells
> and more muck from the car fuel, which would have been 'leaded' in those
> days).

In the olden days only the 'super' was leaded.
The 'normal/regular' was unleaded,

Jan

[CDB]

On 9/6/2017 10:02 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:
>> J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
>>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:

>>>> Will we still speak of 'gas' when making our electric cars go
>>>> faster?
>>> Of course. Ships still sail,

>> So why don't we 'spur on' our cars, or 'apply the whip'?

> We spur on lots of things that aren't horses, though not cars.

> "Apply the whip" would always be felt as metaphorical, since whips
> are still in widespread regular use.

"Beater", for an old car, presumably started out meaning a horse that
was so old and sick it would only drag itself along if you beat it.

[Whiskers]

Certainly alcohol is excellent fuel; a small proportion of ethanol is
added to all petrol on sale in the UK; some cars (eg those made for use
in Brazil) can run on 100% ethanol (after starting on petrol in cold
weather).

>> > Anyway, Mr. Coleman solved the naming problem
>> > by renaming it all to 'Coleman fuel',
>> >
>> > Jan
>>
>> Well, he tried. It was a jolly good try too. (For our petrol stoves,
>> we used either the same stuff as went into the car, or the stuff sold
>> for filling pocket lighters; both worked OK but with different smells
>> and more muck from the car fuel, which would have been 'leaded' in those
>> days).
>
> In the olden days only the 'super' was leaded.
> The 'normal/regular' was unleaded,
>
> Jan

That may have been something that varied in different countries. I'm
pretty sure that when 'unleaded' was introduced in the UK it was a new
thing, outside the existing range of 'star rated' petrol options based
on the 'octane rating' or 'anti-knock rating'. (2-star was for low
performance low compression engines, 5-star was only needed by the most
highly tuned sports cars; 4-star was the general choice for 'efficient'
engines). People could remember the 'pool petrol' available under
war-tine fuel rationing, which was only suitable for the lowest
performance engines as fitted (at the time) to delivery vans and invalid
carriages. When 'unleaded' became the only sort on sale, some cars had
to be modified (different engine valves, mainly, I think) to keep
running or be given special fuel additives to compensate for the lack of
lead. I remember that because I owned such a car at the time.

Some petrol stations here now sell two grades of petrol, but the 'speed'
and 'performance' aspects aren't emphasised and the impression given is
that any car can benefit from being given the more expensive blend
(although the dealer who sold me my flexi-fuel VW campervan told me not
to give it the 'super' blends, it wouldn't like them).

[Whiskers]

Not in my car they aren't!

[Whiskers]

In BrE I think the nearest phrase is 'beaten up', meaning worn out or
mistreated.

[Whiskers]

I prefer to murmur encouragement to mine, and heap praise on it when it
does well.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <slrnor0cue.1...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,

Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:

>Some petrol stations here now sell two grades of petrol, but the 'speed'
>and 'performance' aspects aren't emphasised and the impression given is
>that any car can benefit from being given the more expensive blend
>(although the dealer who sold me my flexi-fuel VW campervan told me not
>to give it the 'super' blends, it wouldn't like them).

In the US it's normal for stations to sell three grades. At low
altitude, those would be 87, 89, and 93 octane (by the (R+M)/2
method); in the Rocky Mountains and High Plains they are instead 85,
87, and 91. Sunoco, historically at least, sold five grades, adding
91 and 94, by using special blending pumps. However, the cars sold
today are only specified for two grades, "regular" and "premium" (the
latter being 91 minimum), and there's no benefit in using a grade
other than that which was specified by the manufacturer.

The additives vary around the country depending on the air quality;
there are dozens of different blends manufactured to meet
environmental standards. In most urban areas, gasoline is blended
with up to 10% ethanol by volume. (Historically MTBE was used for
this, but the environmental problems associated with this chemical
were seized upon by the corn lobby to create a new subsidized market
for their product.)

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wol...@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Interesting. I would have guessed that it was from "beaten-up":
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/beaten-up

beaten-up
adjective [ADJECTIVE noun]
A beaten-up car or other object is old and in bad condition.
Her sandals were old and somewhat beaten-up, but very comfortable.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Tony Cooper]

"Beater" is a common term in the US for an old, clapped-out car. The
term that baffles me - as to origin - is "humpty" for the same thing.
It seems to be a Philly-based term.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 10:55:02 +0100, J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

> James Wilkinson Sword <imv...@somewear.com> wrote:
>
>> How come the Dutch call petrol/gasoline "benzine", when benzene is a 6
>> carbon circular molecule, and petrol/gasoline is an 8 carbon straight
>> molecule?
>
> They do call benzene 'benzeen',
> in line with general chemical terminology.
> (and petrol/gasoline 'benzine')

> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>

> And just curious:
> you straightened out all those gasoline molecules yourself?

Nah, it comes like that out of the pump. Are they actually wiggly or something? I just meant they aren't looped round at the end.

> What's queer gasoline?

Why do you want to know?

--
"Smoking is one of the leading causes of statistics." - Fletcher Knebel

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 23:15:39 +0100, Pierre Jelenc <rc...@panix.com> wrote:

> In article <1nbtre4.cx...@de-ster.xs4all.nl>,

> J. J. Lodder <jjl...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>

> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural, I've no
> idea).

1) There's more than one molecule.
2) The French are most odd. I mean, applying a sex to a piece of furniture?!

--
It has recently been discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 15:59:43 +0100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>>

>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>>>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>>
>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>>> I've no idea).
>>>

>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>>
> Or in English: step on the gas.

I use the phrase "get out of my way!"

--
Climate change will exist so long as there's money to be made from it.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 18:17:16 +0100, Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:

> El 05/09/17 a las 16:59, Peter Moylan escribió:

>> On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>>>
>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>>>>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>>>
>>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>>>> I've no idea).
>>>>
>>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>>>
>> Or in English: step on the gas.
>>
>

> Well, I'd say on the throttle. Even though I suspect throttle originally referred to the
> choke.

Did it? I thought throttle was reducing power of the engine by reducing the amount of fuel.

> I might also say give it beans.

Beans?!

--
What happens when you stick your hand in a jar of jelly beans?
The black ones steal your watch and rings.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

If it's not in my contacts, I press the "dial" button to type in the numbers. What word would you use instead of dial?

--
If you were amazed to discover that cell phones have uses other than setting off roadside bombs, you may be a Muslim.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 19:48:37 +0100, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:

> On 2017-09-05, Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> El 05/09/17 a las 16:59, Peter Moylan escribió:
>>> On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te
>>>>>> geven'. (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>>>>
>>>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>>>>> I've no idea).
>>>>>
>>>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>>>>
>>> Or in English: step on the gas.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I'd say on the throttle. Even though I suspect throttle
>> originally referred to the choke.
>>

>> I might also say give it beans.
>

> I press the accelerator. With a bit of luck, some acceleration ensues.

Just how old is your car?

> Will we still speak of 'gas' when making our electric cars go faster?

We'll crank up the volume or something.

--
The record of having had intercourse the most frequently goes to a boy who was recorded to have had intercourse about 52,000 times over a period of 30 years. This means he had intercourse on average 33.3 times a week.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

https://youtu.be/78b67l_yxUc

--
For men, the conversation happens in addition to driving
whereas for women the driving is something that happens in addition to the conversation.

[David Kleinecke]

Humpty-Dumpty sat on a wall
Humpty-Dumpty had a great fall
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again

But this mechanic can!

[Peeler]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 21:05:15 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

>> Hmmm. I just find the person in the 'contacts' and touch the telephone
>> icon. But I think I may have heard the 'dial' usage recently.
>
> If it's not in my contacts, I press the "dial" button to type in the
> numbers. What word would you use instead of dial?

Setting out your baits again, filth?

--
More from Scottish wanker Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
sociopathic "life":
"I go commando. Underpants are for people suffering from anal seepage."
MID: <op.y55mt...@red.lan>

[Peeler]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 21:07:56 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

> https://youtu.be/78b67l_yxUc

Come on, Birdbrain, use your own words! Make everyone laugh at you again!
<BG>

--
More of Scottish wanker Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
sociopathic "insight":
"The USA is so far behind in technology."
MID: <op.y5k1s...@red.lan>

[Peter T. Daniels]

We'd say "beat up" for that; "beaten up" is what happens to you in a fistfight
where you don't do so well.

[Peeler]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 21:05:48 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

>

>> Will we still speak of 'gas' when making our electric cars go faster?
>
> We'll crank up the volume or something.

No, we won't, crank!

--
More from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic world:
"Oh come on, wars are fun!"
MID: <op.y4pq7...@red.lan>

[Peeler]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 21:04:33 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:


>

>> I might also say give it beans.
>
> Beans?!

Fuck off from this thread, sociopathic idiot!!!

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID: <4d907253-b3b9-40d4...@googlegroups.com>

[Peeler]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 21:03:49 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

>> Or in English: step on the gas.
>
> I use the phrase "get out of my way!"

Yes, you are a sociopath!

--
More of Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic "wisdom":
"But there's no such thing as "American accent", just like there's no such
thing as "British accent"."
MID: <op.y5kv7...@red.lan>

[Peeler]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 21:03:14 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural, I've no
>> idea).
>
> 1) There's more than one molecule.
> 2) The French are most odd. I mean, applying a sex to a piece of furniture?!

Sociopathic idiot! <tsk>

--
More of Scottish wanker Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
sociopathic "thinking":
"No, law abiding fuckwits follow the speed limit. Sensible drivers ignore
it and go slower or faster than it, according to the conditions."
MID: <op.y55ql...@red.lan>

[Peeler]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 21:02:34 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

<FLUSH troll bait>

--
ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID: <e39a6a7f-9677-4e78...@googlegroups.com>

[J. J. Lodder]

Almost all recent European-built petrol cars can and should run
on 'Eurosuper 95' these days, or idemE10 with 10% alcohol in it.

Jan

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

A similar sense exists in BrE. For instance:
http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/28/girl-12-arrested-for-bullying-after-girl-was-beaten-up-in-the-road-6812647/

A 12-year-old girl has been arrested after a young girl was beaten
up in a road in Aberdeen.

It is also used in IndianE:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/mumbai-news/inmate-s-death-in-mumbai-jailor-threatened-me-hit-me-on-hands-and-legs-can-barely-walk-says-indrani/story-Uj61zpdcAixNqWeOP76xEP.html

Indrani Mukerjea was beaten up in Mumbai jail after inmate’s death,
confirms medical officer

[James Wilkinson Sword]

You should always use the phrase "you should see the other guy" when describing the event in the pub.

--
"Cowpoke" - someone who does not use cows for their intended purpose.

[Katy Jennison]

BrE is normally "old banger." Not, presumably, from horses, but because
of the random explosive sounds made by a dodgy elderly car. Not that
I've looked up the derivation.

--
Katy Jennison

[Peeler]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 22:54:05 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

>

> You should always use the phrase "you should see the other guy" when
> describing the event in the pub.

People should ALWAYS use the word "idiot" when dealing with you. And they
mostly indeed do!

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID: <obru31$nao$3...@dont-email.me>

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID: <4d907253-b3b9-40d4...@googlegroups.com>

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: <20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars>

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

The OED doesn't give that derivation explicitly but says:

An old motor vehicle, esp. one which runs noisily. Usually old
banger. slang.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I once had a 3.5 litre V8 Range Rover someone had (badly) converted to run on propane gas. It would in fact only start on gas, not petrol. And only after turning it over for a minute, followed by a loud explosion from the exhaust. I usually tried to time it so someone was walking behind it.

--
I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected.

[Robert Bannister]

On 7/9/17 4:04 am, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 18:17:16 +0100, Paul Carmichael
> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> El 05/09/17 a las 16:59, Peter Moylan escribió:
>>> On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>>>>>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>>>>
>>>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>>>>> I've no idea).
>>>>>
>>>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>>>>
>>> Or in English: step on the gas.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I'd say on the throttle. Even though I suspect throttle
>> originally referred to the
>> choke.
>
> Did it?  I thought throttle was reducing power of the engine by reducing
> the amount of fuel.

Wasn't the original accelerate phrase "*open* the throttle"?

>
>> I might also say give it beans.
>
> Beans?!
>


--

Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:55:30 +0100, Robert Bannister <robertb...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:

> On 7/9/17 4:04 am, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 18:17:16 +0100, Paul Carmichael
>> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> El 05/09/17 a las 16:59, Peter Moylan escribió:
>>>> On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>>>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>>>>>>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>>>>>> I've no idea).
>>>>>>
>>>>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>>>>>
>>>> Or in English: step on the gas.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I'd say on the throttle. Even though I suspect throttle
>>> originally referred to the
>>> choke.
>>
>> Did it? I thought throttle was reducing power of the engine by reducing
>> the amount of fuel.
>
> Wasn't the original accelerate phrase "*open* the throttle"?

Yes. The throttle throttles the engine by reducing petrol. You open it so it isn't throttling anymore.

Think of it like kinking a hosepipe to reduce water flow. You stop doing so for full power.

--
Aisle oven ice bitters are chasm!

[CDB]

On 9/6/2017 4:10 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:

> Tony Cooper wrote:
>> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>>> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>> Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:
>>>>>> J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>> Will we still speak of 'gas' when making our electric
>>>>>>>> cars go faster?
>>>>>>> Of course. Ships still sail,

>>>>>> So why don't we 'spur on' our cars, or 'apply the whip'?

>>>>> We spur on lots of things that aren't horses, though not
>>>>> cars.

>>>>> "Apply the whip" would always be felt as metaphorical, since
>>>>> whips are still in widespread regular use.

>>>> "Beater", for an old car, presumably started out meaning a
>>>> horse that was so old and sick it would only drag itself along
>>>> if you beat it.

>>> Interesting. I would have guessed that it was from "beaten-up":
>>> https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/beaten-up

I may have been too positive about it. I remember seeing the word
applied to a horse in an old novel and coming to that conclusion, but I
can find no instance of it at GooBoo. I suppose it could be ironic praise.

>>> beaten-up adjective [ADJECTIVE noun] A beaten-up car or other
>>> object is old and in bad condition. Her sandals were old and
>>> somewhat beaten-up, but very comfortable.

Or that.

>> "Beater" is a common term in the US for an old, clapped-out car.
>> The term that baffles me - as to origin - is "humpty" for the same
>> thing. It seems to be a Philly-based term.

> Humpty-Dumpty sat on a wall Humpty-Dumpty had a great fall All the
> king's horses and all the king's men Couldn't put Humpty together
> again

> But this mechanic can!

Some houseguests in Saki's "Tobermory" were talking up their car for
sale to another guest, when the cat revealed that they called it "The
Envy of Sisyphus" in private, because it went up hills quite nicely if
you pushed it.

[Peter Moylan]

On 05/09/17 19:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Reinhold {Rey} Aman <am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>>
>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>>>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>>
>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>>> I've no idea).
>>>
>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>

> Probably the other way round.
> 'gas geven' in Dutch may well be a Germanism.
>
> And literally correct of course,
> when you open the throttle the engine gets more vapour,
> (aka gas) not more fluid.

You're using the medical meaning of "fluid" there. To the sort of people
who design internal combustion engines, gases and vapours and liquids
are all fluids, because they all flow.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/09/17 13:37, CDB wrote:
>
> Some houseguests in Saki's "Tobermory" were talking up their car for
> sale to another guest, when the cat revealed that they called it "The
> Envy of Sisyphus" in private, because it went up hills quite nicely if
> you pushed it.

It seems to have been quite a few years since I last heard mention of
the Rolls Canardly.

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/09/17 03:43, Whiskers wrote:

> Certainly alcohol is excellent fuel; a small proportion of ethanol is
> added to all petrol on sale in the UK; some cars (eg those made for use
> in Brazil) can run on 100% ethanol (after starting on petrol in cold
> weather).

The cheapest car fuel here is 10% ethanol. I've heard mechanics say that
the ethanol is bad for your engine, but I don't understand that. It
seems to me that ethanol would tend to clean the engine, not dirty it.

At the other end of the scale, I've heard it said (and I believe it)
that most people are wasting their money buying the expensive "premium"
petrol. Apparently it's for high-performance engines, and is not as good
as the "regular" for most cars.

[Whiskers]

I think some cars have things like washers and seals in the fuel system
that might react with alcohol. There's also a possibility that the
alcohol will absorb water or dissolve some of the crud in the fuel tank,
which then gets carried through to the fuel filter where it causes a
blockage. Pumps, injectors, and engine valves, might also have been
designed to make use of the lubrication properties of petrol and will
wear out more quickly if there's 'too much' alcohol in the fuel.

Some modern cars are able to analyse the fuel in the tank somehow, and
adapt the engine tuning to make best use of what's there. I think. Or
is that some misinformation I've inferred from high-performance fuel
adverts?

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Whiskers]

On 2017-09-06, James Wilkinson Sword <imv...@somewear.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 13:24:52 +0100, Whiskers
> <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-09-05, HVS <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:48:37 +0100, Whiskers
>>> <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> -snip -

>>>
>>>> Will we still speak of 'gas' when making our electric cars go
>>> faster?
>>>

>>> Don't see why not - people still dial telephone numbers.

>>
>> Hmmm. I just find the person in the 'contacts' and touch the
>> telephone icon. But I think I may have heard the 'dial' usage
>> recently.
>
> If it's not in my contacts, I press the "dial" button to type in the
> numbers. What word would you use instead of dial?

My mobile phone has an icon that looks like an old-fashioned landline
handset, and touching that brings up a screen with one option marked
'keypad'. If I use that, I 'type', I think.

[Whiskers]

On 2017-09-06, James Wilkinson Sword <imv...@somewear.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 19:48:37 +0100, Whiskers
> <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:

>
>> On 2017-09-05, Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> El 05/09/17 a las 16:59, Peter Moylan escribió:

>>>> On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>>>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te
>>>>>>> geven'. (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>>>>>> I've no idea).
>>>>>>
>>>>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>>>>>

>>>> Or in English: step on the gas.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I'd say on the throttle. Even though I suspect throttle
>>> originally referred to the choke.
>>>

>>> I might also say give it beans.
>>

>> I press the accelerator. With a bit of luck, some acceleration
>> ensues.
>
> Just how old is your car?

Not so old, but a bit quaint and old-fashioned.

>> Will we still speak of 'gas' when making our electric cars go faster?
>

> We'll crank up the volume or something.

Hmm. There is talk of the need to install some sort of continuous
noise-maker on electric cars, to alert pedestrians to the presence of a
vehicle.

[Whiskers]

On 2017-09-07, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 07/09/17 13:37, CDB wrote:
>>
>> Some houseguests in Saki's "Tobermory" were talking up their car for
>> sale to another guest, when the cat revealed that they called it "The
>> Envy of Sisyphus" in private, because it went up hills quite nicely if
>> you pushed it.
>
> It seems to have been quite a few years since I last heard mention of
> the Rolls Canardly.

I was going to mention that brand!

I also remember a film or TV show in which someone bought a cheap car
which one of the children noticed was a 'Lada' at one end and a 'Rover'
at the other; so it was a 'Lada-Rover'.

[Whiskers]

On 2017-09-06, James Wilkinson Sword <imv...@somewear.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:02:43 +0100, Peter T. Daniels
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 8:23:18 AM UTC-4, Whiskers
>> Catwheezel wrote:

>>> On 2017-09-05, J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
>>> > Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>>

>>> >> Will we still speak of 'gas' when making our electric cars go
>>> >> faster?

>>> > Of course. Ships still sail,
>>>
>>> So why don't we 'spur on' our cars, or 'apply the whip'?
>>
>> We spur on lots of things that aren't horses, though not cars.
>>
>> "Apply the whip" would always be felt as metaphorical, since whips
>> are still in widespread regular use.
>

> https://youtu.be/78b67l_yxUc

That would be a rare care these days; haven't seen one of them for
years. (BMC 1100 'Countryman'; I can't be sure if it's badged as
Austin or Morris, 1967 model according to Wikipedia). They were quite
nice when new.

[Whiskers]

For a carburettor engine, the 'throttle' obstructs the flow of fuel-air
mixture to the engine, and the accelerator pedal eases the obstruction
(opens the throttle). The 'choke' limits the amount of air added to the
fuel so that the mixture can be 'rich' for cold starting. On some cars,
the manual choke control also opens the throttle slightly so that the
cold engine has a faster than normal 'tickover' speed.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 07:55:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
<robertb...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:

>On 7/9/17 4:04 am, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 18:17:16 +0100, Paul Carmichael
>> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> El 05/09/17 a las 16:59, Peter Moylan escribió:
>>>> On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>>>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>>>>>>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>>>>>> I've no idea).
>>>>>>
>>>>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>>>>>
>>>> Or in English: step on the gas.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I'd say on the throttle. Even though I suspect throttle
>>> originally referred to the
>>> choke.
>>
>> Did it?  I thought throttle was reducing power of the engine by reducing
>> the amount of fuel.
>
>Wasn't the original accelerate phrase "*open* the throttle"?
>
>

The OED also has "throttle up" and the opposite "throttle back".

The verb "throttle" is "Probably < throat n. + -le suffix."

Originally it meant

to choke, suffocate, stifle; esp. to attack or kill (a person or
animal) by compressing or constricting the throat; to strangle.

The much more recent transferred sense is:

4.
a. To reduce or stop the flow of (a fluid in a tube, etc.), esp. by
means of a valve or throttle; to regulate the supply of steam, fuel,
etc., to (an engine) in this way. Also: to control the power or
speed of (an engine or motor vehicle) by means of a throttle lever
or pedal.

b. With adverbs.
(a) With back, down, off. To reduce the flow of (steam, fuel, etc.)
to an engine by closing a valve or throttle; to decrease power to
or slow down (an engine or motor vehicle) by means of a throttle
lever or pedal. Also fig. Also intr.
(b) With up. To increase power to or speed up (an engine or motor
vehicle) by means of a throttle lever or pedal. Also fig. Also
intr.

In the original sense "throttle" meant to constrict a throat.
In the engine/motor sense the "throttle" is a control mechanism,
therefore "to throttle" could be thought of as to operate that
mechanism.

>>
>>> I might also say give it beans.
>>
>> Beans?!
>>

--

[Peeler]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:20:26 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

> I once had a 3.5 litre V8 Range Rover someone had (badly) converted to
> run on propane gas. It would in fact only start on gas, not petrol. And
> only after turning it over for a minute, followed by a loud explosion
> from the exhaust. I usually tried to time it so someone was walking
> behind it.

Just keep your FILTH out of normally evolved humans' newsgroups, you
unwashed WANKER!

--
More of Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic
"mathematics":
"If I say 1, then "or so", the "or so" means another 1.
If I say 5, then "or so", the "or so" means up to another 5.
Is English not your first language?"
MID: <op.y2vou...@red.lan>

[Peeler]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 01:09:25 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

?
>
> Yes. The throttle throttles the engine by reducing petrol. You open it
> so it isn't throttling anymore.

Someone needs to throttle you by your neck, you endless driveling wanker!

--
More from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic world:
"Oh come on, wars are fun!"
MID: <op.y4pq7...@red.lan>

[J. J. Lodder]

James Wilkinson Sword <imv...@somewear.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 10:55:02 +0100, J. J. Lodder:

>
> > James Wilkinson Sword <imv...@somewear.com> wrote:
> >

> >> How come the Dutch call petrol/gasoline "benzine", when benzene is a 6
> >> carbon circular molecule, and petrol/gasoline is an 8 carbon straight
> >> molecule?
> >
> > They do call benzene 'benzeen',
> > in line with general chemical terminology.
> > (and petrol/gasoline 'benzine')

> > But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
> > (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
> >

> > And just curious:
> > you straightened out all those gasoline molecules yourself?
>
> Nah, it comes like that out of the pump. Are they actually wiggly or
> something? I just meant they aren't looped round at the end.

Wrong again.
There is a significant fraction of looped ones in the mixture.
(like cyclohexane, toluene, and others)

> > What's queer gasoline?
>
> Why do you want to know?

It's a challenge, you know,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

James Wilkinson Sword <imv...@somewear.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:55:30 +0100, Robert Bannister:

>
> > On 7/9/17 4:04 am, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 18:17:16 +0100, Paul Carmichael
> >> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> El 05/09/17 a las 16:59, Peter Moylan escribió:
> >>>> On 05/09/17 08:59, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
> >>>>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
> >>>>>>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
> >>>>>> I've no idea).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Or in English: step on the gas.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Well, I'd say on the throttle. Even though I suspect throttle
> >>> originally referred to the
> >>> choke.
> >>
> >> Did it? I thought throttle was reducing power of the engine by reducing
> >> the amount of fuel.
> >
> > Wasn't the original accelerate phrase "*open* the throttle"?
>
> Yes. The throttle throttles the engine by reducing petrol.

Wrong, it throttles the engine by reducing air flow.

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 07/09/17 03:43, Whiskers wrote:
>
> > Certainly alcohol is excellent fuel; a small proportion of ethanol is
> > added to all petrol on sale in the UK; some cars (eg those made for use
> > in Brazil) can run on 100% ethanol (after starting on petrol in cold
> > weather).
>
> The cheapest car fuel here is 10% ethanol. I've heard mechanics say that
> the ethanol is bad for your engine, but I don't understand that. It
> seems to me that ethanol would tend to clean the engine, not dirty it.

The point is water. Distilled ethanol is 96% alcohol max.
(so-called 'wet' alcohol)
Originally the ethanol was dried to 100% before mixing.
This is an expensive process.
Then some unknown genius discovered that you can mix petrol
with 'wet' alcohol. (the water remains in solution)
Actually it burns more smoothly with some water in it.

Some older engines are not certifed for SP95E10 however,
and it may actually damage some components,

Jan

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Then why do they call it octane and not benzene?

>> > What's queer gasoline?
>>
>> Why do you want to know?
>
> It's a challenge, you know,

Can't be bothered.

--
Maybe . . .
Flying saucers are real and the Air Force doesn't exist.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 20:36:35 +0100, J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

It could probably work either way, or on the resultant mixture. I'd assume the mixture would be best, otherwise you're actually changing the richness of the mixture every time you change speed. That's what a choke is for. If you let go of the accelerator and it blocked off most of the air, you'd flood the engine.

--
FREE TIBET!!!! (with purchase of 1 mainland china)

[Peeler]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 20:43:54 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

> It could probably work either way

YOU will work NO way, right, you workshy, mentally handicapped dole and
welfare whore? <BG>

--
Unemployable, mentally handicapped Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson"
LOL) about his life as a dole and welfare whore:
"I used to be a computer tech until I became permanently ill."
MID: <op.y37e7...@red.lan>

[Robert Bannister]

I have read that many times, but I am convinced that a tankful of
premium lasts longer in my car than a tankful of regular.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:00:11 +0100, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 4:38:14 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>> PS I did meet an un-American at a filling station once.
>> He was taking out the fuel hoses,
>> to let the remaining petrol in them drip into a small container.
>> When I asked him why, he told me that he used it
>> as free fuel for his Coleman thing.
>
> That hasn't been possible at US gas stations for decades. The hoses have safety valves that
> prevent drips onto the ground.

Impossible to stop a liquid completely, there will always be some dribble.

--
Thank you velly much. I'm not Wan King the chef, I'm Fu King the owner.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 16:03:25 +0100, J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>

>> On 2017-09-05, J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
>> > Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:

>> >
>> >> On 2017-09-04, J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
>> >> > Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >

>> >> >> El 04/09/17 a las 10:08, Andreas Karrer escribió:
>> >> >> > In contrast, rather few languages use the terms "gasoline"
>> >> >> > or "petrol" or variants thereof.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I believe the word "petrol" was a trade name which got hijacked a la
>> >> >> hoover.
>> >> >
>> >> > All those names for fuels are really quite a mess between languages,
>> >> > with more false friends than correspondences.
>> >> > Correct translation requires look-up, or even technical knowledge.
>> >> >
>> >> > Dutch uses 'petroleum' for lamp oil,
>> >> > (E.kerosine) heating oil for heaters with wicks,
>> >> > and for low-grade diesel-like fuel
>> >> > that can be used for agricultural machinery,
>> >> > or old-timer boat engines.
>> >> >
>> >> > Both words occur together in Dutch 'petroleumvergasser',
>> >> > which are old-fashioned burners that work
>> >> > by burning petrolem vapour.
>> >> > (for cooking, lighting or soldering)
>> >> > These need pre-heating to get started.
>> >> >
>> >> > Nowadays most often seen as polished brass antiques.
>> >> > The most famous perhaps is the Swedish 'Primus Stove'
>> >> > used by Roald Amundsen even at the South Pole,
>> >> >
>> >> > Jan
>> >>
>> >> And by me, up on the moors. We called their fuel 'paraffin'. There
>> >> were also models (and other makes) which used petrol (gasoline, essence)
>> >> - and indeed both types are still available from your friendly local
>> >> camping supplies retailer. To add further confusion, there's even
>> >> something called 'white fuel' or 'white petrol' which is a sort of less
>> >> adulterated version of the petrol used in cars. Not to be confused with
>> >> 'white spirit' which painters use for cleaning brushes.
>> >
>> > AFAIK it has a very low octane rating.
>> > Like 'wasbenzine' in Dutch, 'refined petrol' in English,
>> > used for cleaning purposes.
>>
>> Also favoured by users of miniature internal combustion engines.
>
> AFAIK they use a methanol/oil mixture. (as did some racing cars)
>
>> > Anyway, Mr. Coleman solved the naming problem
>> > by renaming it all to 'Coleman fuel',
>> >
>> > Jan
>>
>> Well, he tried. It was a jolly good try too. (For our petrol stoves,
>> we used either the same stuff as went into the car, or the stuff sold
>> for filling pocket lighters; both worked OK but with different smells
>> and more muck from the car fuel, which would have been 'leaded' in those
>> days).
>
> In the olden days only the 'super' was leaded.
> The 'normal/regular' was unleaded,

On my first visit to France in an H reg Ford Sierra, I accidentally filled it with "super". The woman at the checkout asked if I had a Ferrari.

--
Mrs. Morse: "Sam, stop tapping your fingers on the table, it's driving me crazy!"

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 09:08:39 +0100, Andreas Karrer <ak...@gmx.ch> wrote:

> * James Wilkinson Sword <imv...@somewear.com>:

>> How come the Dutch call petrol/gasoline "benzine", when benzene is a 6 carbon circular molecule, and petrol/gasoline is an 8 carbon straight molecule?
>

> Petrol/gasoline is not a "8 carbon straight molecule", e.g. n-octane.
> It is a mixture of several hydrocarbons, from C-5 to C-12, most with
> C-6 to C-10, some cyclic, some aromatic. Octane has a special
> significance because it is used to define the octane rating, but it's
> not n-octane, but "iso-octane", e.g. 2,2,4-Trimethylpentane.

It's straighter than a benzene ring.

> It is not the main part of gasoline/petrol.

Doesn't an octane rating of 96 mean it's 96% octane?

--
Got myself a new Jack Russell puppy, he's mainly black and brown with a small white patch, so I've named him England.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Modern cars with electronic controls do this too. My car idles at 1000rpm until it's warm, then changes to 500rpm. It also gives the engine a quick rev as soon as I start it to get it going.

--
System error 4C: kernel panic

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Good acceleration, but not very big.

--
Space is an illusion, disk space doubly so.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Why not just teach them to look? Green cross code, look right, look left, then cross. Anyone who doesn't leaves the gene pool. If I got an electric car with a speaker under the bonnet, I'd remove it.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

"I keypadded you earlier and you didn't pick up!"

--
*Squawk!* Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine! [Parroty error]

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 06:57:41 +0100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 05/09/17 19:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:

>> Reinhold {Rey} Aman <am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>>>
>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> But the Dutch do have a 'gaspedaal' in their cars 'om gas te geven'.
>>>>> (lit. Gas pedal, to give gas)
>>>>
>>>> Same in French: "mettre les gaz" = "to accelerate" (why plural,
>>>> I've no idea).
>>>>
>>> Same in German: _Gas geben_.
>>

>> Probably the other way round.
>> 'gas geven' in Dutch may well be a Germanism.
>>
>> And literally correct of course,
>> when you open the throttle the engine gets more vapour,
>> (aka gas) not more fluid.
>
> You're using the medical meaning of "fluid" there. To the sort of people
> who design internal combustion engines, gases and vapours and liquids
> are all fluids, because they all flow.

You can run a car on a wood burning stove, that's solid fuel. Top Gear did it once but I can't find it. Maybe it was coal or something and I'm searching for the wrong thing.

--
Los Angeles's full name is “El Pueblo de Nuestra Senora la
Reina de los Angeles de Porciuncula” and can be
abbreviated to 3.63% of its size, “L.A.”

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 01:16:56 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
<imv...@somewear.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:00:11 +0100, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 4:38:14 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>
>>> PS I did meet an un-American at a filling station once.
>>> He was taking out the fuel hoses,
>>> to let the remaining petrol in them drip into a small container.
>>> When I asked him why, he told me that he used it
>>> as free fuel for his Coleman thing.
>>
>> That hasn't been possible at US gas stations for decades. The hoses have safety valves that
>> prevent drips onto the ground.
>
>Impossible to stop a liquid completely, there will always be some dribble.

Have your prostate checked.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Mark Brader]

Peter Moylan:
>> The cheapest car fuel here is 10% ethanol...

>>
>> At the other end of the scale, I've heard it said (and I believe it)
>> that most people are wasting their money buying the expensive "premium"

>> petrol...

Robert Bannister:

> I have read that many times, but I am convinced that a tankful of
> premium lasts longer in my car than a tankful of regular.

Well, if the regular you get contains ethanol and the premium doesn't...
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "(A topological cat is essential here.)"
m...@vex.net --Ian Stewart

[Richard Bollard]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 16:15:09 +1000, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 07/09/17 03:43, Whiskers wrote:
>
>> Certainly alcohol is excellent fuel; a small proportion of ethanol is
>> added to all petrol on sale in the UK; some cars (eg those made for use
>> in Brazil) can run on 100% ethanol (after starting on petrol in cold
>> weather).
>
>The cheapest car fuel here is 10% ethanol. I've heard mechanics say that
>the ethanol is bad for your engine, but I don't understand that. It
>seems to me that ethanol would tend to clean the engine, not dirty it.
>

>At the other end of the scale, I've heard it said (and I believe it)
>that most people are wasting their money buying the expensive "premium"

>petrol. Apparently it's for high-performance engines, and is not as good
>as the "regular" for most cars.

In my experience it is better. If your car has the appropriate
software (pretty standard on most injection engines nowadays). It
adapts to the richer fuel and you get more mileage and noticeably
better response. I worked out that the extra I pay is more or less
covered by the extra mileage. The small difference is worth it for the
better performance. I was skeptical but I've done the testing on my
2007 Ford Focus. By contrast, I didn't get any advantage on my older
Suzuki so I only put the higher fuel through once a year or so (I was
told that could have a cleansing affect - that may have been crap but
it didn't hurt it).
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia

To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Ooh, snap!

[Peeler]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 01:16:56 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

> Impossible to stop a liquid completely, there will always be some dribble.

Yes, and in your case it always goes into your trousers, you filthy unwashed
Scottish sow! No wonder you were reported to be "smelly"!

--
More of Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) deep "thinking":
"I don't wear underwear, but boxers are more comfortable than briefs. Why
would you want it clamped in?"
MID: <op.ytexe...@red.lan>
--
More of Scottish wanker Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
sociopathic "life":
"I go commando. Underpants are for people suffering from anal seepage."
MID: <op.y55mt...@red.lan>