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A cynical challenge
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mrucb...@att.net
Jul 6, 2014, 11:39:56 AM7/6/14
to
With British commentators' descriptions of soccer fouls, when offering an opinion
as to whether a caution should be given (or 'yellow card' shown), they
occasionally indicate whether they think it was a 'cynical' offense by the
player committing the foul. There are a lot of American football comments about
fouls (in gridiron football) but I have never heard the description 'cynical'
applied.
There are 2 definitions given in several dictionary entries. The first, which
speaks of a negative, disrespectful or untrusting attitude toward life and
people in general, is the meaning I had more commonly heard. I think the second
definition is applicable to the soccer fouls but I can't think of any cases
where I have heard it in USA English. Is cynical used in other descriptions of
various kinds of offenses, in British English? If this is a cultural
difference is it British-USA language or sport-jargon related?
as to whether a caution should be given (or 'yellow card' shown), they
occasionally indicate whether they think it was a 'cynical' offense by the
player committing the foul. There are a lot of American football comments about
fouls (in gridiron football) but I have never heard the description 'cynical'
applied.
There are 2 definitions given in several dictionary entries. The first, which
speaks of a negative, disrespectful or untrusting attitude toward life and
people in general, is the meaning I had more commonly heard. I think the second
definition is applicable to the soccer fouls but I can't think of any cases
where I have heard it in USA English. Is cynical used in other descriptions of
various kinds of offenses, in British English? If this is a cultural
difference is it British-USA language or sport-jargon related?
Dr Nick
Jul 6, 2014, 1:55:27 PM7/6/14
to
you expect to be picked up on it, but think it's worth doing it to
prevent an otherwise likely goal.
I think it's used in politics for a similar more verbal thing. You
attack someone just to try to stop what they are doing, not because you
actually have a valid point to make.
Here's an example where someone accuses a political party of supporting
something for what it looks like, and to differentiate themselves,
rather than because they believed in it:
<http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/03/16/outrage-ben-summerskill-claims-lib-dems-cynically-oppotunistically-supported-equal-marriage/>
But looking on the web I find many non British examples of this (try
searching for >cynical attack on<) from US and Australian sources at
least.
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2014, 10:19:23 PM7/6/14
to
On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 18:55:27 +0100, Dr Nick
<nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>mrucb...@att.net writes:
>
>> With British commentators' descriptions of soccer fouls, when offering
>> an opinion as to whether a caution should be given (or 'yellow card'
>> shown), they occasionally indicate whether they think it was a
>> 'cynical' offense by the player committing the foul. There are a lot
>> of American football comments about fouls (in gridiron football) but I
>> have never heard the description 'cynical' applied.
>>
>> There are 2 definitions given in several dictionary entries. The
>> first, which speaks of a negative, disrespectful or untrusting
>> attitude toward life and people in general, is the meaning I had more
>> commonly heard. I think the second definition is applicable to the
>> soccer fouls but I can't think of any cases where I have heard it in
>> USA English. Is cynical used in other descriptions of various kinds
>> of offenses, in British English? If this is a cultural difference is
>> it British-USA language or sport-jargon related?
>
>Cynical in this sense is usually used I think to apply to a foul were
>you expect to be picked up on it, but think it's worth doing it to
>prevent an otherwise likely goal.
Usually spelt "Suarez".
<nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>mrucb...@att.net writes:
>
>> With British commentators' descriptions of soccer fouls, when offering
>> an opinion as to whether a caution should be given (or 'yellow card'
>> shown), they occasionally indicate whether they think it was a
>> 'cynical' offense by the player committing the foul. There are a lot
>> of American football comments about fouls (in gridiron football) but I
>> have never heard the description 'cynical' applied.
>>
>> There are 2 definitions given in several dictionary entries. The
>> first, which speaks of a negative, disrespectful or untrusting
>> attitude toward life and people in general, is the meaning I had more
>> commonly heard. I think the second definition is applicable to the
>> soccer fouls but I can't think of any cases where I have heard it in
>> USA English. Is cynical used in other descriptions of various kinds
>> of offenses, in British English? If this is a cultural difference is
>> it British-USA language or sport-jargon related?
>
>Cynical in this sense is usually used I think to apply to a foul were
>you expect to be picked up on it, but think it's worth doing it to
>prevent an otherwise likely goal.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Jerry Friedman
Jul 7, 2014, 2:48:37 PM7/7/14
to
in basketball, where there's plenty of occasion for it, because those
fouls are admired. See "good foul" and "intentional foul".
--
Jerry Friedman
Mark Brader
Jul 7, 2014, 3:08:58 PM7/7/14
to
Jerry Friedman:
> ..."cynical foul" is not used
"bad penalty" is one where the foul being penalized gained nothing.
In the Laws of Duplicate Bridge, on the other hand, Law 72B1 specifies:
# A player must not infringe a law intentionally, even if there is
# a prescribed rectification he is willing to accept.
The Laws of Contract Bridge, used for rubber bridge, were amended less
recently; the "Proprieties" are still in a separate unnumbered section
and the word "penalty" is still used. But the provision is similar:
# To infringe a law intentionally is a serious breach of ethics,
# even if there is a prescribed penalty that one is willing to pay.
# The offense may be the more serious when no penalty is prescribed.
--
Mark Brader | "To call the characters cardboard is
Toronto | to insult a useful packing material."
m...@vex.net | --Roger Ebert
My text in this article is in the public domain.
> ..."cynical foul" is not used
> in basketball, where there's plenty of occasion for it, because those
> fouls are admired. See "good foul" and "intentional foul".
Similarly in hockey, one speaks of a "good penalty". Conversely, a
> fouls are admired. See "good foul" and "intentional foul".
"bad penalty" is one where the foul being penalized gained nothing.
In the Laws of Duplicate Bridge, on the other hand, Law 72B1 specifies:
# A player must not infringe a law intentionally, even if there is
# a prescribed rectification he is willing to accept.
The Laws of Contract Bridge, used for rubber bridge, were amended less
recently; the "Proprieties" are still in a separate unnumbered section
and the word "penalty" is still used. But the provision is similar:
# To infringe a law intentionally is a serious breach of ethics,
# even if there is a prescribed penalty that one is willing to pay.
# The offense may be the more serious when no penalty is prescribed.
--
Mark Brader | "To call the characters cardboard is
Toronto | to insult a useful packing material."
m...@vex.net | --Roger Ebert
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Paul Wolff
Jul 7, 2014, 5:26:57 PM7/7/14
to
On Mon, 7 Jul 2014, Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> posted:
Law 22(a)(1) Errors are mistakes in play which are...[snipped]
Law 22(b) A player must not deliberately commit an error.
And to show that it is not a cynic's game:
Law 22(c) The striker must immediately declare any error he
commits or suspects he may have committed and cease play
until the matter is resolved.
--
Paul
>Jerry Friedman:
>> ..."cynical foul" is not used
>> in basketball, where there's plenty of occasion for it, because those
>> fouls are admired. See "good foul" and "intentional foul".
>
>Similarly in hockey, one speaks of a "good penalty". Conversely, a
>"bad penalty" is one where the foul being penalized gained nothing.
>
>In the Laws of Duplicate Bridge, on the other hand, Law 72B1 specifies:
>
># A player must not infringe a law intentionally, even if there is
># a prescribed rectification he is willing to accept.
>
>The Laws of Contract Bridge, used for rubber bridge, were amended less
>recently; the "Proprieties" are still in a separate unnumbered section
>and the word "penalty" is still used. But the provision is similar:
>
># To infringe a law intentionally is a serious breach of ethics,
># even if there is a prescribed penalty that one is willing to pay.
># The offense may be the more serious when no penalty is prescribed.
Oh, please let me offer croquet:
>> ..."cynical foul" is not used
>> in basketball, where there's plenty of occasion for it, because those
>> fouls are admired. See "good foul" and "intentional foul".
>
>Similarly in hockey, one speaks of a "good penalty". Conversely, a
>"bad penalty" is one where the foul being penalized gained nothing.
>
>In the Laws of Duplicate Bridge, on the other hand, Law 72B1 specifies:
>
># A player must not infringe a law intentionally, even if there is
># a prescribed rectification he is willing to accept.
>
>The Laws of Contract Bridge, used for rubber bridge, were amended less
>recently; the "Proprieties" are still in a separate unnumbered section
>and the word "penalty" is still used. But the provision is similar:
>
># To infringe a law intentionally is a serious breach of ethics,
># even if there is a prescribed penalty that one is willing to pay.
># The offense may be the more serious when no penalty is prescribed.
Law 22(a)(1) Errors are mistakes in play which are...[snipped]
Law 22(b) A player must not deliberately commit an error.
And to show that it is not a cynic's game:
Law 22(c) The striker must immediately declare any error he
commits or suspects he may have committed and cease play
until the matter is resolved.
--
Paul
Mark Brader
Jul 7, 2014, 7:03:36 PM7/7/14
to
Mark Brader:
# There is no obligation to draw attention to an inadvertent
# infraction of law committed by one's own side. However, a player
# should not attempt to conceal such an infraction, as by committing
# a second revoke, concealing a card involved in a revoke or mixing
# the cards prematurely.
In duplicate, this is split into Laws 9A4, 72B2, and 72B3, with
essentially the same wording except that it explicitly points out
a few exceptions where you do after all have to do so.
--
Mark Brader | Of course, we'd have to flatten both the iceberg and Wyoming,
Toronto | and that would change what area Wyoming covers, but that's
m...@vex.net | all right since I've never been to Wyoming. --Tony Cooper
>> In the Laws of Duplicate Bridge, on the other hand, Law 72B1 specifies:
>> # A player must not infringe a law intentionally, even if there is
>> # a prescribed rectification he is willing to accept.
Paul Wolff:
>> # A player must not infringe a law intentionally, even if there is
>> # a prescribed rectification he is willing to accept.
> Oh, please let me offer croquet:
> Law 22(a)(1) Errors are mistakes in play which are...[snipped]
> Law 22(b) A player must not deliberately commit an error.
>
> And to show that it is not a cynic's game:
> Law 22(c) The striker must immediately declare any error he
> commits or suspects he may have committed and cease play
> until the matter is resolved.
You have topped me. Bridge has the opposite rule. In rubber:
> Law 22(a)(1) Errors are mistakes in play which are...[snipped]
> Law 22(b) A player must not deliberately commit an error.
>
> And to show that it is not a cynic's game:
> Law 22(c) The striker must immediately declare any error he
> commits or suspects he may have committed and cease play
> until the matter is resolved.
# There is no obligation to draw attention to an inadvertent
# infraction of law committed by one's own side. However, a player
# should not attempt to conceal such an infraction, as by committing
# a second revoke, concealing a card involved in a revoke or mixing
# the cards prematurely.
In duplicate, this is split into Laws 9A4, 72B2, and 72B3, with
essentially the same wording except that it explicitly points out
a few exceptions where you do after all have to do so.
--
Mark Brader | Of course, we'd have to flatten both the iceberg and Wyoming,
Toronto | and that would change what area Wyoming covers, but that's
m...@vex.net | all right since I've never been to Wyoming. --Tony Cooper
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