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Where does the name "wharf" hydrant for a residence come from?
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DannyD.
Jul 7, 2014, 2:33:08 PM7/7/14
to
There's no wharf in sight, but every house in my Silicon Valley neighborhood
has to have their own "wharf hydrant", or you can't live in the house:
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/fmo/waterandaccess/Land%20Development/PublishingImages/redyellowfirehydrant.jpg
The local government FAQ on wharf hydrants doesn't say why they're called that:
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/fmo/waterandaccess/Land%20Development/Documents/FIRE%20PROTECTION%20WATER%20PDF%20rev%20012512.pdf
Neither does the local government specification for our wharf hydrants:
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/fmo/docsandapps/Standards/Documents/CFMO-W4-Wharf-Hyd-070910.pdf
Anyone have any idea why these required hydrants for residences in hills, very far from
a "wharf", are called 'wharf hydrants'?
has to have their own "wharf hydrant", or you can't live in the house:
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/fmo/waterandaccess/Land%20Development/PublishingImages/redyellowfirehydrant.jpg
The local government FAQ on wharf hydrants doesn't say why they're called that:
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/fmo/waterandaccess/Land%20Development/Documents/FIRE%20PROTECTION%20WATER%20PDF%20rev%20012512.pdf
Neither does the local government specification for our wharf hydrants:
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/fmo/docsandapps/Standards/Documents/CFMO-W4-Wharf-Hyd-070910.pdf
Anyone have any idea why these required hydrants for residences in hills, very far from
a "wharf", are called 'wharf hydrants'?
FromTheRafters
Jul 7, 2014, 2:46:09 PM7/7/14
to
Horace LaBadie
Jul 7, 2014, 3:03:09 PM7/7/14
to
In article <lpep53$g8u$6...@news.albasani.net>,
Probably because they were originally meant to supply water to protect
one structure, the wharf to which they were attached. That's just a
guess, based on the size and alternate name, "yard hydrant."
one structure, the wharf to which they were attached. That's just a
guess, based on the size and alternate name, "yard hydrant."
Wayne Brown
Jul 7, 2014, 3:03:01 PM7/7/14
to
http://www.firehydrant.org/info/faqs_ask4.html
A few excerpts:
"A wharf head by definition is a hydrant which connects directly to
a wet riser. On wharves and piers there is no practical ability
to install a "hydrant bury" complete with foot valves and thrust
blocks and the name has stuck to all hydrants that are basically
just hydrant tops screwed onto vertical pipes."
"Out here in more temperate climates it was fairly common for these
heads to be used in the 40s and 50s in residential neighborhoods
that were served by only 4" water mains."
"To lower the costs of installations in modern subdivisions a few
manufacturers have produced wet barrel heads which can thread directly
onto 6" pipe risers which they have marketed as "residential wharf
heads."
--
F. Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net>
Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.")
from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 7, 2014, 3:21:02 PM7/7/14
to
On Monday, July 7, 2014 3:03:01 PM UTC-4, Wayne Brown wrote:
> In sci.lang DannyD. <Dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
> > There's no wharf in sight, but every house in my Silicon Valley neighborhood
> > has to have their own "wharf hydrant", or you can't live in the house: ...
> In sci.lang DannyD. <Dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
> > There's no wharf in sight, but every house in my Silicon Valley neighborhood
> > Anyone have any idea why these required hydrants for residences in
> > hills, very far from a "wharf", are called 'wharf hydrants'?
> I believe this is what you want:
> http://www.firehydrant.org/info/faqs_ask4.html
> A few excerpts:
> "A wharf head by definition is a hydrant which connects directly to
> a wet riser. On wharves and piers there is no practical ability
> to install a "hydrant bury" complete with foot valves and thrust
> blocks and the name has stuck to all hydrants that are basically
> just hydrant tops screwed onto vertical pipes."
That is _exactly_ the same process by which the English word "bead"
> > hills, very far from a "wharf", are called 'wharf hydrants'?
> I believe this is what you want:
> http://www.firehydrant.org/info/faqs_ask4.html
> A few excerpts:
> "A wharf head by definition is a hydrant which connects directly to
> a wet riser. On wharves and piers there is no practical ability
> to install a "hydrant bury" complete with foot valves and thrust
> blocks and the name has stuck to all hydrants that are basically
> just hydrant tops screwed onto vertical pipes."
came to mean what it means.
I've never heard the phrase, but it's nice to have another example
ready to hand.
Ross
Jul 7, 2014, 5:14:51 PM7/7/14
to
because the fire-hydrant quote is full of technical terms I don't know.
Could you go through it in more detail? (I'm guessing others might appreciate
it too.)
DannyD.
Jul 7, 2014, 6:37:22 PM7/7/14
to
FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
"A wharf head by definition is a hydrant which connects directly
to a wet riser.
On wharves and piers there is no practical ability to install a
"hydrant bury" complete with foot valves and thrust blocks and
the name has stuck to all hydrants that are basically just
hydrant tops screwed onto vertical pipes.
Their common characteristic is that they literally thread
onto a piece of iron pipe. The majority of wharf heads thread
onto 4" pipe and have a single operating nut at the top of the
hydrant."
> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
"A wharf head by definition is a hydrant which connects directly
to a wet riser.
On wharves and piers there is no practical ability to install a
"hydrant bury" complete with foot valves and thrust blocks and
the name has stuck to all hydrants that are basically just
hydrant tops screwed onto vertical pipes.
onto a piece of iron pipe. The majority of wharf heads thread
onto 4" pipe and have a single operating nut at the top of the
hydrant."
snide...@gmail.com
Jul 7, 2014, 8:12:56 PM7/7/14
to
<http://nyruralwater.org/publications/Winter2007/ArticleDT.pdf>
It mainly covers the "bury", which is important in places where it freezes.
I'm guessing thrust blocks have to do with Newton's 3rd law.
/dps
snide...@gmail.com
Jul 7, 2014, 8:15:17 PM7/7/14
to
On Monday, July 7, 2014 5:12:56 PM UTC-7, snide...@gmail.com scribbled!
(Sorry, I meant to trim the line feeds, but I hit send pretermaturely.)
/dps
(Sorry, I meant to trim the line feeds, but I hit send pretermaturely.)
/dps
snide...@gmail.com
Jul 7, 2014, 8:24:07 PM7/7/14
to
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 7, 2014, 11:34:02 PM7/7/14
to
you said your prayers using your rosary you kept track of them with the
little balls, so you counted your bedes, or your beads. Generalization
combined with transfer.
It's always given as "the standard example," as if it were the type for
a large category.
Ross
Jul 8, 2014, 1:03:32 AM7/8/14
to
in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of European
Christian culture (praying the rosary).
In "wharf hydrant/head", the phrase originally has a transparent place
modifier, which becomes more opaque when such
things come to be used in other locations. Similar to "jockey shorts"
or "tabasco pepper".
Dr Nick
Jul 8, 2014, 2:24:32 AM7/8/14
to
Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz> writes:
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:34:02 PM UTC+12, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Monday, July 7, 2014 5:14:51 PM UTC-4, Ross wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 7:21:02 AM UTC+12, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > > On Monday, July 7, 2014 3:03:01 PM UTC-4, Wayne Brown wrote:
>> > > > In sci.lang DannyD. <Dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > Anyone have any idea why these required hydrants for residences in
>> > > > > hills, very far from a "wharf", are called 'wharf hydrants'?
>> > > > I believe this is what you want:
>> > > > http://www.firehydrant.org/info/faqs_ask4.html
>> > > > A few excerpts:
>> > > > "A wharf head by definition is a hydrant which connects directly to
>> > > > a wet riser. On wharves and piers there is no practical ability
>> > > > to install a "hydrant bury" complete with foot valves and thrust
>> > > > blocks and the naqme has stuck to all hydrants that are basically
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:34:02 PM UTC+12, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Monday, July 7, 2014 5:14:51 PM UTC-4, Ross wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 7:21:02 AM UTC+12, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > > On Monday, July 7, 2014 3:03:01 PM UTC-4, Wayne Brown wrote:
>> > > > In sci.lang DannyD. <Dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > Anyone have any idea why these required hydrants for residences in
>> > > > > hills, very far from a "wharf", are called 'wharf hydrants'?
>> > > > I believe this is what you want:
>> > > > http://www.firehydrant.org/info/faqs_ask4.html
>> > > > A few excerpts:
>> > > > "A wharf head by definition is a hydrant which connects directly to
>> > > > a wet riser. On wharves and piers there is no practical ability
>> > > > to install a "hydrant bury" complete with foot valves and thrust
>> > > > just hydrant tops screwed onto vertical pipes."
>>
>> > > That is _exactly_ the same process by which the English word "bead"
>> > > came to mean what it mqeans.
>>
>> > > That is _exactly_ the same process by which the English word "bead"
>>
>> > > I've never heard the phrase, but it's nice to have another
>> > > example ready to hand.
>>
>> > I agree it would be nice, but I can't quite make out the parallel
>> > -- partly because the fire-hydrant quote is full of technical terms
>> > I don't know.
>
>> > Could you go through it in more detail? (I'm guessing others might
>> > appreciate it too.)
>>
>> Wharftop was on a hydrant used on a wharf; a bede was a prayer, and
>> when you said your prayers using your rosary you kept track of them
>> with the little balls, so you counted your bedes, or your
>> beads. Generalization combined with transfer.
>>
>> It's always given as "the standard example," as if it were the type
>> for a large category.
>
> I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is
> interesting in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of
> European Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>
> In "wharf hydrant/head", the phrase originally has a transparent place
> modifier, which becomes more opaque when such things come to be used
> in other locations. Similar to "jockey shorts" or "tabasco pepper".
Although it's not a noun, it's a similar process to the one that has
>> > > I've never heard the phrase, but it's nice to have another
>> > > example ready to hand.
>>
>> > I agree it would be nice, but I can't quite make out the parallel
>> > -- partly because the fire-hydrant quote is full of technical terms
>> > I don't know.
>
>> > Could you go through it in more detail? (I'm guessing others might
>> > appreciate it too.)
>>
>> Wharftop was on a hydrant used on a wharf; a bede was a prayer, and
>> when you said your prayers using your rosary you kept track of them
>> with the little balls, so you counted your bedes, or your
>> beads. Generalization combined with transfer.
>>
>> It's always given as "the standard example," as if it were the type
>> for a large category.
>
> I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is
> interesting in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of
> European Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>
> In "wharf hydrant/head", the phrase originally has a transparent place
> modifier, which becomes more opaque when such things come to be used
> in other locations. Similar to "jockey shorts" or "tabasco pepper".
given rise to the British English verb "to section" meaning "to
involuntarily detain because of a mental health condition" (similar to
the older "commit" - itself something of a changed meaning). This has
spread from being professional jargon to a fairly widespread term - it
appears (at the time of writing) almost unglossed here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Gascoigne
Dr Nick
Jul 8, 2014, 2:25:42 AM7/8/14
to
"DannyD." <Dan...@is.invalid> writes:
> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
>
>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
>
> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
>
>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
>
> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point". Possibly
the most transparent and least obscure inland waterways term there is in
fact.
Ross
Jul 8, 2014, 2:33:17 AM7/8/14
to
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 6:24:32 PM UTC+12, Dr Nick wrote:
check OED to confirm my guess that it had to do with applying a certain
section of the Mental Health Act (1983 or 1959). Actually, now that
I understand that, I think there could well be other cases of
noun --> verb conversion where the noun is the name of a law or regulation
and the verb means "apply (said law) (to)".
> Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz> writes:
> > I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is
> > interesting in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of
> > European Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>
> > In "wharf hydrant/head", the phrase originally has a transparent place
> > modifier, which becomes more opaque when such things come to be used
> > in other locations. Similar to "jockey shorts" or "tabasco pepper".
>
> Although it's not a noun, it's a similar process to the one that has
> given rise to the British English verb "to section" meaning "to
> involuntarily detain because of a mental health condition" (similar to
> the older "commit" - itself something of a changed meaning). This has
> spread from being professional jargon to a fairly widespread term - it
> appears (at the time of writing) almost unglossed here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Gascoigne
That certainly does have a highly specific cultural pivot -- I had to
> > I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is
> > interesting in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of
> > European Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>
> > In "wharf hydrant/head", the phrase originally has a transparent place
> > modifier, which becomes more opaque when such things come to be used
> > in other locations. Similar to "jockey shorts" or "tabasco pepper".
>
> Although it's not a noun, it's a similar process to the one that has
> given rise to the British English verb "to section" meaning "to
> involuntarily detain because of a mental health condition" (similar to
> the older "commit" - itself something of a changed meaning). This has
> spread from being professional jargon to a fairly widespread term - it
> appears (at the time of writing) almost unglossed here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Gascoigne
check OED to confirm my guess that it had to do with applying a certain
section of the Mental Health Act (1983 or 1959). Actually, now that
I understand that, I think there could well be other cases of
noun --> verb conversion where the noun is the name of a law or regulation
and the verb means "apply (said law) (to)".
Tom P
Jul 8, 2014, 3:45:15 AM7/8/14
to
On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
>
>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
>
> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>
No such thing where I live. In residential areas underground hydrants
> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
>
>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
>
> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>
are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
Mark Brader
Jul 8, 2014, 4:00:41 AM7/8/14
to
Danny D.:
(Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | It's never too late to learn what "opsimath" means.
m...@vex.net | --James Hogg
My text in this article is in the public domain.
> > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
Nick Atty:
> All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
> the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
> the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
(Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | It's never too late to learn what "opsimath" means.
m...@vex.net | --James Hogg
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Paul Wolff
Jul 8, 2014, 5:52:52 AM7/8/14
to
On Mon, 7 Jul 2014, Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz> posted:
Does 'patent' fit the bill?
You may quibble that the word started life as an adjective, before being
nouned before being verbed.
--
Paul
You may quibble that the word started life as an adjective, before being
nouned before being verbed.
--
Paul
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jul 8, 2014, 7:25:57 AM7/8/14
to
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:45:15 +0200, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
>> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
>>
>>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
>>
>> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
>> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>>
>
>No such thing where I live. In residential areas underground hydrants
>are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
>indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
>
>
The same in the UK, in all areas. The "hydrant" is an underground
>On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
>> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
>>
>>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
>>
>> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
>> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>>
>
>No such thing where I live. In residential areas underground hydrants
>are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
>indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
>
>
connection point with a valve. The fire brigade or anyone else with a
right to connect to it carries "standpipes" and things (T-bars) for
opening the valves.
There is a yellow marker plate with an H and two numbers. One number is
the diameter of the water supply pipe in millimetres and the other is
the distance in metres between the sign and the "hydrant pit". The pit
has a cover on it marked FH. Typically the cover is painted yellow.
http://www.dorsetfire.gov.uk/community/fire-hydrants/
An hydrant with square-section vertical "rod" on which the T-bar fits to
operate the valve:
http://www.valvecenter.co.uk/images/Product%20pics/Product%20pics/fire%20fighting/hydrant.jpg
Standpipes can be single- or double-headed:
http://www.fireprotectiononline.co.uk/popup_image.php?type=D&id=16327&title=Fire+standpipe&page=2
Where factories and other extended premises are sufficiently large to
need their own fire-fighting water supply points the privately-supplied
hydrants are required to be compatible with the public ones.
>> "A wharf head by definition is a hydrant which connects directly
>> to a wet riser.
>>
>> On wharves and piers there is no practical ability to install a
>> "hydrant bury" complete with foot valves and thrust blocks and
>> the name has stuck to all hydrants that are basically just
>> hydrant tops screwed onto vertical pipes.
>>
>> Their common characteristic is that they literally thread
>> onto a piece of iron pipe. The majority of wharf heads thread
>> onto 4" pipe and have a single operating nut at the top of the
>> hydrant."
>>
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 8, 2014, 8:54:28 AM7/8/14
to
> In "wharf hydrant/head", the phrase originally has a transparent place
> modifier, which becomes more opaque when such
> things come to be used in other locations. Similar to "jockey shorts"
> or "tabasco pepper".
since most "jockey shorrs" aren't made by Jockey), and I wouldn't lowercase
Tabasco, in either the pepper or the sauce (so not the same thing).
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 8, 2014, 8:57:22 AM7/8/14
to
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 4:00:41 AM UTC-4, Mark Brader wrote:
> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
In NYC a standpipe is a thing insice a building that there's a metal
> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
plaque in the sidewalk outside near the curb telling the firemen how
far inside the building it's located.
It might also be the name for the hydrant-like connections that emerge
from building walls, but they don't get plaques in the sidewalk so I
can't tell.
Not "exotic" in the least.
Charles Bishop
Jul 8, 2014, 10:20:58 AM7/8/14
to
In article <okjnr9dqh2904rdr6...@4ax.com>,
Here, they are pipes, usually within a building that can be used to
fight fires local in the building. If there is usually no water in them,
the fire crew hooks the water supply to one, which has outlets on
various floors. The water can then be used to fight a fire in one
apartment, for instance. If the standpipe has water in it, then it can
be used by occupants of the building, as well as the FD.
For multistory buildings, the outside of the building has connections
for the standpipes in the building that the FD uses. As an aside, there
are caps on the connections to prevent small animals and debris from
getting into the standpipes. In San Francisco, many of these caps were
made of brass. These were sometimes stolen to be sold for the scrap
metal value which was much less than the replacement cost.
>
[snip]
don't think so, but it's a big country
--
charles
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:45:15 +0200, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>
> >On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
> >> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
> >>
> >>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
> >>
> >> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
> >> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
> >>
> >
> >No such thing where I live. In residential areas underground hydrants
> >are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
> >indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
> >
> >
> The same in the UK, in all areas. The "hydrant" is an underground
> connection point with a valve. The fire brigade or anyone else with a
> right to connect to it carries "standpipes" and things (T-bars) for
> opening the valves.
Why do they carry standpipes? Or rather, what are standpipes there?
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:45:15 +0200, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>
> >On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
> >> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
> >>
> >>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
> >>
> >> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
> >> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
> >>
> >
> >No such thing where I live. In residential areas underground hydrants
> >are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
> >indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
> >
> >
> The same in the UK, in all areas. The "hydrant" is an underground
> connection point with a valve. The fire brigade or anyone else with a
> right to connect to it carries "standpipes" and things (T-bars) for
> opening the valves.
Here, they are pipes, usually within a building that can be used to
fight fires local in the building. If there is usually no water in them,
the fire crew hooks the water supply to one, which has outlets on
various floors. The water can then be used to fight a fire in one
apartment, for instance. If the standpipe has water in it, then it can
be used by occupants of the building, as well as the FD.
For multistory buildings, the outside of the building has connections
for the standpipes in the building that the FD uses. As an aside, there
are caps on the connections to prevent small animals and debris from
getting into the standpipes. In San Francisco, many of these caps were
made of brass. These were sometimes stolen to be sold for the scrap
metal value which was much less than the replacement cost.
>
[snip]
>
> Standpipes can be single- or double-headed:
> http://www.fireprotectiononline.co.uk/popup_image.php?type=D&id=16327&title=Fi
> re+standpipe&page=2
Ah. I don't know whether US FDs carry those as a matter of course. I
> Standpipes can be single- or double-headed:
> http://www.fireprotectiononline.co.uk/popup_image.php?type=D&id=16327&title=Fi
> re+standpipe&page=2
don't think so, but it's a big country
>
> Where factories and other extended premises are sufficiently large to
> need their own fire-fighting water supply points the privately-supplied
> hydrants are required to be compatible with the public ones.
That's surely the case here as well.
> Where factories and other extended premises are sufficiently large to
> need their own fire-fighting water supply points the privately-supplied
> hydrants are required to be compatible with the public ones.
--
charles
Charles Bishop
Jul 8, 2014, 10:22:31 AM7/8/14
to
In article <xZudnZeDuqK0OCbO...@vex.net>,
water in them, under pressure.
--
charles
m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> Danny D.:
> > > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>
> Nick Atty:
> > All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
> > the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
>
> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
AmE as well. They are in multistory buildings and either are dry or have
> Danny D.:
> > > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>
> Nick Atty:
> > All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
> > the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
>
> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
water in them, under pressure.
--
charles
Charles Bishop
Jul 8, 2014, 10:27:34 AM7/8/14
to
In article <648872a3-29b9-4d0f...@googlegroups.com>,
If NYC is similar to SF, there are standpipes inside the building and
connections to them outside, on the front (or maybe rear) of the
building. Connection is made to them by the FD to provide water to the
multiple floors inside the building.
I don't know what is done for very tall buildings. Surely the pump on a
fire truck wouldn't be enough to pump the water to the 55th floor frex.
The ones I was familiar in SF didn't go over 18-20 floors, ~ 200 feet
high.
But, yes, not exotic. Although Mark may have been referring to the photo
of a standpipe supplied by another poster. It was a standalone (heh)
standpipe, and I don't know what it's use would be by a FD.
--
charles
connections to them outside, on the front (or maybe rear) of the
building. Connection is made to them by the FD to provide water to the
multiple floors inside the building.
I don't know what is done for very tall buildings. Surely the pump on a
fire truck wouldn't be enough to pump the water to the 55th floor frex.
The ones I was familiar in SF didn't go over 18-20 floors, ~ 200 feet
high.
But, yes, not exotic. Although Mark may have been referring to the photo
of a standpipe supplied by another poster. It was a standalone (heh)
standpipe, and I don't know what it's use would be by a FD.
--
charles
Jerry Friedman
Jul 8, 2014, 10:30:24 AM7/8/14
to
On 7/8/14 2:00 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
> Danny D.:
>>> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>
> Nick Atty:
>> All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>> the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
My very thought. "Point" is obscure to me, and "water" doesn't narrow
> Danny D.:
>>> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>
> Nick Atty:
>> All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>> the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
things down on a wharf. I can believe, though, that it's the least
obscure term used in British canal boating.
> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
"1. A large elevated vertical pipe or cylindrical tank that is filled
with water to produce a desired pressure.
2. A pipe or system of pipes through which water can flow, as for the
operation of fire hoses on upper floors of a building."
M-W says, "a high vertical pipe or reservoir that is used to secure a
uniform pressure in a water-supply system", which agrees with your
definition.
Nothing about Britishness.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jul 8, 2014, 11:46:00 AM7/8/14
to
http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13940%26siteId%3D403,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
Charles Bishop
Jul 8, 2014, 12:02:09 PM7/8/14
to
In article <l94or91u4e8jkf5sa...@4ax.com>,
that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
between wharf, pier, and dock?
> >>
> >> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
> >>
> >> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
> >> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
> >> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
> >
> >AmE as well. They are in multistory buildings and either are dry or have
> >water in them, under pressure.
>
> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
>
> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13940
> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
"Riser" has another different, less specific meaning in AmE. Sinks here,
bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
hoses, but once were tubing.
Standpipes, in my experience and usage are larger diameter, designed to
carry larger amounts of water, "dry standpipe" and "wet standpipe" for
the two types.
--
Charles
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:22:31 -0700, Charles Bishop
> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <xZudnZeDuqK0OCbO...@vex.net>,
> > m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> >
> >> Danny D.:
> >> > > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
> >>
> >> Nick Atty:
> >> > All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
> >> > the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <xZudnZeDuqK0OCbO...@vex.net>,
> > m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> >
> >> Danny D.:
> >> > > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
> >>
> >> Nick Atty:
> >> > All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
> >> > the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
between wharf, pier, and dock?
> >>
> >> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
> >>
> >> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
> >> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
> >> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
> >
> >AmE as well. They are in multistory buildings and either are dry or have
> >water in them, under pressure.
>
> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
>
> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13940
> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
hoses, but once were tubing.
Standpipes, in my experience and usage are larger diameter, designed to
carry larger amounts of water, "dry standpipe" and "wet standpipe" for
the two types.
--
Charles
Jerry Friedman
Jul 8, 2014, 12:11:44 PM7/8/14
to
the 11th century) to count prayers is mentioned by William of Malmesbury
in his /De Gestis Pontificum Anglorum/ (1125)
http://books.google.com/books?id=_NqOe4Z-zTcC&pg=PA311
They were probably used to count paternosters. The rosary didn't
develop till later, maybe the 15th century.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02361c.htm
Of course many other cultures use beads to count prayers, but I don't
know whether any of them have adopted a word for prayer to mean a bead.
It seems to me that the etymology of "bead" has two steps, first the
metonymy from "prayer" to "object on a string used to count prayers",
then the generalization to any object of that type.
> In "wharf hydrant/head", the phrase originally has a transparent place
> modifier, which becomes more opaque when such
> things come to be used in other locations.
> Similar to "jockey shorts" or "tabasco pepper".
(apparently now replaced by "beanie", at least around here), "baseball
cap", "lobster sauce", "potato peeler", "pipe cleaner", "fish slice"
(BrE), etc.
One more complicated than "bead", if you believe the Urban Dictionary,
is "whip", AAVE for "expensive car".
Thing that controls a horse > steering wheel > Mercedes logo > Mercedes
> expensive car
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Whip
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jul 8, 2014, 12:49:41 PM7/8/14
to
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:02:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
ISTR wed had a discussion on these words in aue not all that long ago.
I think the main discovery was that the various words were used
differently in different places by different people.
Nick Atty is probably thinking of a wharf on a canal. It is a structure
where barges are loaded and unloaded. This is the same function as with
ships, just on a smaller scale.
This shows one on the Llangollen Canal that has been adapted for tourist
use. There is a crane (hand powered?) that would have been used for
lifting freight on and off barges.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Llangollen_canal_wharf.jpg
This is another:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Middlewich_-_Canal_Wharf.jpg
>
>> >>
>> >> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
>> >>
>> >> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
>> >> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
>> >> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
>> >
>> >AmE as well. They are in multistory buildings and either are dry or have
>> >water in them, under pressure.
>>
>> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
>>
>> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13940
>> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
>
>"Riser" has another different, less specific meaning in AmE. Sinks here,
>bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
>stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
>valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
>hoses, but once were tubing.
>
>Standpipes, in my experience and usage are larger diameter, designed to
>carry larger amounts of water, "dry standpipe" and "wet standpipe" for
>the two types.
A "stand(-)pipe" is simply a pipe that stands, i.e., is upright.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stand-pipe&allowed_in_frame=0
<ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <l94or91u4e8jkf5sa...@4ax.com>,
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:22:31 -0700, Charles Bishop
>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <xZudnZeDuqK0OCbO...@vex.net>,
>> > m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Danny D.:
>> >> > > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>> >>
>> >> Nick Atty:
>> >> > All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>> >> > the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
>between wharf, pier, and dock?
And jetty?
>In article <l94or91u4e8jkf5sa...@4ax.com>,
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:22:31 -0700, Charles Bishop
>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <xZudnZeDuqK0OCbO...@vex.net>,
>> > m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Danny D.:
>> >> > > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>> >>
>> >> Nick Atty:
>> >> > All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>> >> > the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
>between wharf, pier, and dock?
ISTR wed had a discussion on these words in aue not all that long ago.
I think the main discovery was that the various words were used
differently in different places by different people.
Nick Atty is probably thinking of a wharf on a canal. It is a structure
where barges are loaded and unloaded. This is the same function as with
ships, just on a smaller scale.
This shows one on the Llangollen Canal that has been adapted for tourist
use. There is a crane (hand powered?) that would have been used for
lifting freight on and off barges.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Llangollen_canal_wharf.jpg
This is another:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Middlewich_-_Canal_Wharf.jpg
>
>> >>
>> >> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
>> >>
>> >> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
>> >> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
>> >> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
>> >
>> >AmE as well. They are in multistory buildings and either are dry or have
>> >water in them, under pressure.
>>
>> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
>>
>> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13940
>> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
>
>"Riser" has another different, less specific meaning in AmE. Sinks here,
>bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
>stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
>valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
>hoses, but once were tubing.
>
>Standpipes, in my experience and usage are larger diameter, designed to
>carry larger amounts of water, "dry standpipe" and "wet standpipe" for
>the two types.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stand-pipe&allowed_in_frame=0
Tony Cooper
Jul 8, 2014, 12:51:08 PM7/8/14
to
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:27:34 -0700, Charles Bishop
<ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>But, yes, not exotic. Although Mark may have been referring to the photo
>of a standpipe supplied by another poster. It was a standalone (heh)
>standpipe, and I don't know what it's use would be by a FD.
This standpipe, built in 1894, sits on the Court House lawn in
<ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>But, yes, not exotic. Although Mark may have been referring to the photo
>of a standpipe supplied by another poster. It was a standalone (heh)
>standpipe, and I don't know what it's use would be by a FD.
Madison, Florida. It's no longer in use, though.
http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/photos/i-FSQ3fqQ/0/XL/i-FSQ3fqQ-XL.jpg
Most US cities with a name like "Madison" would be named after a US
President. Not this one, though. It's named after Madison C.
Livingston.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Dr Nick
Jul 8, 2014, 1:46:28 PM7/8/14
to
m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) writes:
> Danny D.:
>> > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>
> Nick Atty:
>> All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>> the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
Because there are taps at sanitary stations for rinsing out your
> Danny D.:
>> > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>
> Nick Atty:
>> All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>> the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
chemical loo. They don't provide drinking water, a water point does.
> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
a common term.
Dr Nick
Jul 8, 2014, 1:56:14 PM7/8/14
to
Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> writes:
> In article <l94or91u4e8jkf5sa...@4ax.com>,
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:22:31 -0700, Charles Bishop
>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <xZudnZeDuqK0OCbO...@vex.net>,
>> > m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Danny D.:
>> >> > > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>> >>
>> >> Nick Atty:
>> >> > All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>> >> > the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
> Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
> that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
> between wharf, pier, and dock?
Not necessarily. Technically the place I'm moored at is Tom's
> In article <l94or91u4e8jkf5sa...@4ax.com>,
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:22:31 -0700, Charles Bishop
>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <xZudnZeDuqK0OCbO...@vex.net>,
>> > m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Danny D.:
>> >> > > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>> >>
>> >> Nick Atty:
>> >> > All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>> >> > the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
> Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
> that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
> between wharf, pier, and dock?
Moorings. But it's only a few dozen yards from Betton Mill Wharf and
not much further again to Talbot Wharf:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBZYHwhRTyk
You can see our moorings through the bridge in the background at the
40sec or so point.
At least I didn't call it a staithe.
So that's a wharf. Here's a pier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigan_Pier
And here's a dock:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/21089874@N06/3354335382/
The differences are patent.
>> >> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
>> >>
>> >> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
>> >> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
>> >> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
>> >
>> >AmE as well. They are in multistory buildings and either are dry or have
>> >water in them, under pressure.
>>
>> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
>>
>> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13940
>> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
>
> "Riser" has another different, less specific meaning in AmE. Sinks here,
> bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
> stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
> valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
> hoses, but once were tubing.
meaning the main water supply into the house before the stop cock.
> Standpipes, in my experience and usage are larger diameter, designed to
> carry larger amounts of water, "dry standpipe" and "wet standpipe" for
> the two types.
work etc, or at temporary events like festivals.
http://www.horobin.co.uk/product.asp?productid=25
Charles Bishop
Jul 8, 2014, 3:50:06 PM7/8/14
to
In article <ui7or9l1dg182jhaa...@4ax.com>,
--
charles
Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:27:34 -0700, Charles Bishop
> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >But, yes, not exotic. Although Mark may have been referring to the photo
> >of a standpipe supplied by another poster. It was a standalone (heh)
> >standpipe, and I don't know what it's use would be by a FD.
>
> This standpipe, built in 1894, sits on the Court House lawn in
> Madison, Florida. It's no longer in use, though.
>
> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/photos/i-FSQ3fqQ/0/XL/i-FSQ3fqQ-XL.jpg
What was its use? Water tower? That meaning is new to me.
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:27:34 -0700, Charles Bishop
> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >But, yes, not exotic. Although Mark may have been referring to the photo
> >of a standpipe supplied by another poster. It was a standalone (heh)
> >standpipe, and I don't know what it's use would be by a FD.
>
> This standpipe, built in 1894, sits on the Court House lawn in
> Madison, Florida. It's no longer in use, though.
>
> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/photos/i-FSQ3fqQ/0/XL/i-FSQ3fqQ-XL.jpg
>
> Most US cities with a name like "Madison" would be named after a US
> President. Not this one, though. It's named after Madison C.
> Livingston.
Could it have been from the movie, "Splash"?
> Most US cities with a name like "Madison" would be named after a US
> President. Not this one, though. It's named after Madison C.
> Livingston.
--
charles
Tony Cooper
Jul 8, 2014, 4:10:19 PM7/8/14
to
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 12:50:06 -0700, Charles Bishop
and flows out under pressure.
When I was walking around the city of Madison, the day I took the
photograph, I asked a few people what it was and why it was there in
on the Court House lawn. No one could really supply an answer. "It's
been there as long as I can remember" was the most common reply. I
had to go to the tourist office to get an answer, and the lady there
had to look it up.
It was built after an earlier Court House burned to the ground because
not enough water was available to the firemen. No one seems to know
when it was no longer used.
<ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <ui7or9l1dg182jhaa...@4ax.com>,
> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:27:34 -0700, Charles Bishop
>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >But, yes, not exotic. Although Mark may have been referring to the photo
>> >of a standpipe supplied by another poster. It was a standalone (heh)
>> >standpipe, and I don't know what it's use would be by a FD.
>>
>> This standpipe, built in 1894, sits on the Court House lawn in
>> Madison, Florida. It's no longer in use, though.
>>
>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/photos/i-FSQ3fqQ/0/XL/i-FSQ3fqQ-XL.jpg
>
>What was its use? Water tower? That meaning is new to me.
It's just a holding tank for water. Water is pumped up into the tank,
>In article <ui7or9l1dg182jhaa...@4ax.com>,
> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:27:34 -0700, Charles Bishop
>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >But, yes, not exotic. Although Mark may have been referring to the photo
>> >of a standpipe supplied by another poster. It was a standalone (heh)
>> >standpipe, and I don't know what it's use would be by a FD.
>>
>> This standpipe, built in 1894, sits on the Court House lawn in
>> Madison, Florida. It's no longer in use, though.
>>
>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/photos/i-FSQ3fqQ/0/XL/i-FSQ3fqQ-XL.jpg
>
>What was its use? Water tower? That meaning is new to me.
and flows out under pressure.
When I was walking around the city of Madison, the day I took the
photograph, I asked a few people what it was and why it was there in
on the Court House lawn. No one could really supply an answer. "It's
been there as long as I can remember" was the most common reply. I
had to go to the tourist office to get an answer, and the lady there
had to look it up.
It was built after an earlier Court House burned to the ground because
not enough water was available to the firemen. No one seems to know
when it was no longer used.
Mark Brader
Jul 8, 2014, 4:44:16 PM7/8/14
to
Nick Atty:
>>> All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>>> the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
Mark Brader:
>>> All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>>> the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
Nick Atty:
> Because there are taps at sanitary stations for rinsing out your
> chemical loo. They don't provide drinking water, a water point does.
But taps supplying non-potable water are the exception, so why have a
> chemical loo. They don't provide drinking water, a water point does.
special name for the usual kind?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "...one man's feature is another man's bug."
m...@vex.net --Chris Torek
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 8, 2014, 5:32:02 PM7/8/14
to
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 4:10:19 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> It's just a holding tank for water. Water is pumped up into the tank,
> and flows out under pressure.
It flows out under gravity.
> It's just a holding tank for water. Water is pumped up into the tank,
> and flows out under pressure.
Ross
Jul 8, 2014, 5:50:51 PM7/8/14
to
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 12:54:28 AM UTC+12, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 1:03:32 AM UTC-4, Ross wrote:
> > I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is interesting
> > in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of European
> > Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>
> That's the only environment there was.
>
??
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 1:03:32 AM UTC-4, Ross wrote:
> > I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is interesting
> > in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of European
> > Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>
> That's the only environment there was.
>
>
> > In "wharf hydrant/head", the phrase originally has a transparent place
> > modifier, which becomes more opaque when such
> > things come to be used in other locations. Similar to "jockey shorts"
> > or "tabasco pepper".
>
> Jockey shorts is a trademark (the BrE "Y-fronts" is actually preferable,
> since most "jockey shorrs" aren't made by Jockey),
OK, substitute "boxer shorts".
> > In "wharf hydrant/head", the phrase originally has a transparent place
> > modifier, which becomes more opaque when such
> > things come to be used in other locations. Similar to "jockey shorts"
> > or "tabasco pepper".
>
> Jockey shorts is a trademark (the BrE "Y-fronts" is actually preferable,
> since most "jockey shorrs" aren't made by Jockey),
>and I wouldn't lowercase Tabasco, in either the pepper or the sauce (so not >the same thing).
has to do with it. The fact is that the meaning has shifted from "peppers
grown in Tabasco" to "type of pepper".
Ross
Jul 8, 2014, 7:37:01 PM7/8/14
to
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 4:11:44 AM UTC+12, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 7/7/14 11:03 PM, Ross wrote:
> > I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is interesting
> > in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of European
> > Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>
> Or repeating prayers in general. The use of beads (by Lady Godiva in
> the 11th century) to count prayers is mentioned by William of Malmesbury
> in his /De Gestis Pontificum Anglorum/ (1125)
> http://books.google.com/books?id=_NqOe4Z-zTcC&pg=PA311
> They were probably used to count paternosters. The rosary didn't
> develop till later, maybe the 15th century.
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02361c.htm
Correction humbly accepted.
> On 7/7/14 11:03 PM, Ross wrote:
> > I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is interesting
> > in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of European
> > Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>
> Or repeating prayers in general. The use of beads (by Lady Godiva in
> the 11th century) to count prayers is mentioned by William of Malmesbury
> in his /De Gestis Pontificum Anglorum/ (1125)
> http://books.google.com/books?id=_NqOe4Z-zTcC&pg=PA311
> They were probably used to count paternosters. The rosary didn't
> develop till later, maybe the 15th century.
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02361c.htm
> Of course many other cultures use beads to count prayers,
a-string device, but I don't know exactly how it's used, and I always
wondered whether it might reflect Christian influence.
>but I don't
> know whether any of them have adopted a word for prayer to mean a bead.
> It seems to me that the etymology of "bead" has two steps, first the
> metonymy from "prayer" to "object on a string used to count prayers",
> then the generalization to any object of that type.
distinctive, which is why I was surprised at Peter saying the hydrant
case was "exactly the same".
> > In "wharf hydrant/head", the phrase originally has a transparent place
> > modifier, which becomes more opaque when such
> > things come to be used in other locations.
>
> That strikes me as like the generalization step.
>
> > Similar to "jockey shorts" or "tabasco pepper".
>
> Or leaving out the "place" aspect, "tennis shoes", "watch cap"
> (apparently now replaced by "beanie", at least around here), "baseball
> cap", "lobster sauce", "potato peeler", "pipe cleaner", "fish slice"
> (BrE), etc.
> One more complicated than "bead", if you believe the Urban Dictionary,
> is "whip", AAVE for "expensive car".
>
> Thing that controls a horse > steering wheel > Mercedes logo > Mercedes
> > expensive car
>
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Whip
time.
Paul Wolff
Jul 8, 2014, 7:54:14 PM7/8/14
to
On Tue, 8 Jul 2014, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> posted:
It flows out under water.
--
Paul
--
Paul
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jul 8, 2014, 8:15:51 PM7/8/14
to
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
mrucb...@att.net
Jul 8, 2014, 9:11:33 PM7/8/14
to
automatic-starting, sizable diesel engine hooked to large pump in line with
the water service main. It is connected to the fire sprinkler system and the standpipes (the kind in these buildings, not the pressure maintenance kind.)
There is quite a service industry involved with maintenance, inspection and
testing of these. Some high profile buildings may have the fire marshal,
insurance company representative, and fire protection engineering firm
technician on hand for a periodic test. I saw one once where
they fired up the pump and ran it at high RPM, generating tremendous pressure
and flow potential. When they opened a nearby fire hydrant, it sucked air in
at a scary pace. They sometimes have to run the water flow produced, out of a
good number of big firehoses to move the water to where it can run away.
Always a hazard for the hose to 'get away' and wildly flail about, if it
isn't securely fixed to a stable object when the water flow comes slamming
along. I have attended a few of these events. Sometimes the lines of
authority stem from a person in the 'lead' when they have little experience
with the scale of water flow involved. Pretty stressful when it is in a busy
urban environment with every opportunity for an error, and a few alpha male
types on-hand demonstrating their authority.
Ross
Jul 8, 2014, 9:37:26 PM7/8/14
to
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 2:30:24 AM UTC+12, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 7/8/14 2:00 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
> > Danny D.:
> On 7/8/14 2:00 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
> > Danny D.:
> > (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
> > To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
> > stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
>
> I thought it was just a word for a vertical pipe. AHD says,
> "1. A large elevated vertical pipe or cylindrical tank that is filled
> with water to produce a desired pressure.
> 2. A pipe or system of pipes through which water can flow, as for the
> operation of fire hoses on upper floors of a building."
>
> M-W says, "a high vertical pipe or reservoir that is used to secure a
> uniform pressure in a water-supply system", which agrees with your
> definition.
>
> Nothing about Britishness.
Another use of "standpipe" has just floated back to my consciousness,
> > To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
> > stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
>
> I thought it was just a word for a vertical pipe. AHD says,
> "1. A large elevated vertical pipe or cylindrical tank that is filled
> with water to produce a desired pressure.
> 2. A pipe or system of pipes through which water can flow, as for the
> operation of fire hoses on upper floors of a building."
>
> M-W says, "a high vertical pipe or reservoir that is used to secure a
> uniform pressure in a water-supply system", which agrees with your
> definition.
>
> Nothing about Britishness.
from my days as a toolbox-carrier with the Canadian Hydrographic Service
on the British Columbia coast. We were servicing tide gauges. The gauge
itself was in a shed on the end of a wharf. It recorded the ups and downs
of a float in the water some distance below. The float, and the line
connecting it to the gauge, were inside a vertical pipe about 12 inches in
diameter, which we called a "standpipe". Its function was simply to insulate
the float from minor water movements (also, I suppose, from fish, swimmers,
boats, etc) so that it would respond as much as possible just to the diurnal
changes in sea level.
I suppose this could come under 2. above, though not having anything to
do with urban water supply.
Dr Nick
Jul 9, 2014, 2:27:45 AM7/9/14
to
m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) writes:
> Nick Atty:
>>>> All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>>>> the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
> Mark Brader:
>>> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
>
> Nick Atty:
>> Because there are taps at sanitary stations for rinsing out your
>> chemical loo. They don't provide drinking water, a water point does.
>
> But taps supplying non-potable water are the exception, so why have a
> special name for the usual kind?
I have absolutely no idea. I suspect it's a term from the start of the
> Nick Atty:
>>>> All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>>>> the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>
> Mark Brader:
>>> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
>
> Nick Atty:
>> Because there are taps at sanitary stations for rinsing out your
>> chemical loo. They don't provide drinking water, a water point does.
>
> But taps supplying non-potable water are the exception, so why have a
> special name for the usual kind?
boom in pleasure boating. Tracking down first usage would be a major
research project that - while fun - I certainly don't have the time for
at the moment.
Dr Nick
Jul 9, 2014, 2:28:53 AM7/9/14
to
Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> writes:
> M-W says, "a high vertical pipe or reservoir that is used to secure a
> uniform pressure in a water-supply system", which agrees with your
> definition.
That's a "water tower" in the UK.
> M-W says, "a high vertical pipe or reservoir that is used to secure a
> uniform pressure in a water-supply system", which agrees with your
> definition.
Snidely
Jul 9, 2014, 2:59:09 AM7/9/14
to
Dr Nick is guilty of <8761j7u...@temporary-address.org.uk> as of
7/8/2014 11:28:53 PM
As in Mark's definition?
/dps
A lot of water towers in the US are big tanks (cylinders, balls, and
other shapes) on stilts; I'd take "standpipe" to be used just for the
ones without legs.
Campbell, California:
<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USA-Campbell-Water_Tower-1.jpg>
Atlanta, Illinois:
<http://urbex.50megs.com/Places/USA/Route%2066/USA%20-%20Atlanta%20IL%20-%20Water%20Tower%20(9%20Apr%202009)%20Header.jpg>
or in the tin at
<http://tinyurl.com/IllWaterTower>
Wasn't this one part of a sheep dip a doldrum or two back?
<http://www.emporis.com/building/peachoidwatertower-gaffney-sc-usa>
Sacramento, Calif:
<http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jD5_8eCPrHg/SqwoKqvbJbI/AAAAAAAAN80/sPjCZWJgONE/s640/20090822-SactoWaterTower04.jpg>
or <http://tinyurl.com/WaterBlogTower>
And one I'd accept "standpipe" for:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville,_Kentucky#mediaviewer/File:Louisville_water_tower.jpg>
or <http://tinyurl.com/LKyWaterTower>
And another:
<http://www.panoramio.com/photo/58489910>
HTH.
/dps "over the top? there's a top?"
--
Ieri, oggi, domani
7/8/2014 11:28:53 PM
/dps
A lot of water towers in the US are big tanks (cylinders, balls, and
other shapes) on stilts; I'd take "standpipe" to be used just for the
ones without legs.
Campbell, California:
<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USA-Campbell-Water_Tower-1.jpg>
Atlanta, Illinois:
<http://urbex.50megs.com/Places/USA/Route%2066/USA%20-%20Atlanta%20IL%20-%20Water%20Tower%20(9%20Apr%202009)%20Header.jpg>
or in the tin at
<http://tinyurl.com/IllWaterTower>
Wasn't this one part of a sheep dip a doldrum or two back?
<http://www.emporis.com/building/peachoidwatertower-gaffney-sc-usa>
Sacramento, Calif:
<http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jD5_8eCPrHg/SqwoKqvbJbI/AAAAAAAAN80/sPjCZWJgONE/s640/20090822-SactoWaterTower04.jpg>
or <http://tinyurl.com/WaterBlogTower>
And one I'd accept "standpipe" for:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville,_Kentucky#mediaviewer/File:Louisville_water_tower.jpg>
or <http://tinyurl.com/LKyWaterTower>
And another:
<http://www.panoramio.com/photo/58489910>
HTH.
/dps "over the top? there's a top?"
--
Ieri, oggi, domani
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jul 9, 2014, 3:57:26 AM7/9/14
to
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 23:59:09 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Interesting. I wouldn't have expected those last two to be called pipes.
To me a pipe is something that water goes in one end and comes out the
other. That is not the case with those. I can see how a large
cross-section pipe can be used for water storage but I'd hesistate to
call it a pipe in that role.
ODO has the same definition for standpipe in AmE and BrE:
A vertical pipe extending from a water supply, especially one
connecting a temporary tap to the mains.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/standpipe
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/standpipe
>/dps "over the top? there's a top?"
--
wrote:
To me a pipe is something that water goes in one end and comes out the
other. That is not the case with those. I can see how a large
cross-section pipe can be used for water storage but I'd hesistate to
call it a pipe in that role.
ODO has the same definition for standpipe in AmE and BrE:
A vertical pipe extending from a water supply, especially one
connecting a temporary tap to the mains.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/standpipe
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/standpipe
>/dps "over the top? there's a top?"
--
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jul 9, 2014, 7:17:55 AM7/9/14
to
On Tue, 8 Jul 2014 16:37:01 -0700 (PDT), Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
>On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 4:11:44 AM UTC+12, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 7/7/14 11:03 PM, Ross wrote:
>> > I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is interesting
>> > in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of European
>> > Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>>
>> Or repeating prayers in general. The use of beads (by Lady Godiva in
>> the 11th century) to count prayers is mentioned by William of Malmesbury
>> in his /De Gestis Pontificum Anglorum/ (1125)
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=_NqOe4Z-zTcC&pg=PA311
>> They were probably used to count paternosters. The rosary didn't
>> develop till later, maybe the 15th century.
>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02361c.htm
>
>Correction humbly accepted.
>
>> Of course many other cultures use beads to count prayers,
>
>I wonder how many do this? I know some Japanese Buddhists have a beads-on-
>a-string device, but I don't know exactly how it's used, and I always
>wondered whether it might reflect Christian influence.
>
Some Muslims use prayer beads. The only time I've noticed them in use
was on TV in an Celebrity Big Brother series in the UK. One of the
housemates was Jermaine Jackson (of the Jackson 5) who is a Muslim. On
one occasion I saw him sitting quietly at the edge of a group who were
having a discussion. I then noticed that he was using prayer beads. When
he finished silently praying he joined in the conversation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_beads#Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jermaine_Jackson
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
wrote:
>On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 4:11:44 AM UTC+12, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 7/7/14 11:03 PM, Ross wrote:
>> > I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is interesting
>> > in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of European
>> > Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>>
>> Or repeating prayers in general. The use of beads (by Lady Godiva in
>> the 11th century) to count prayers is mentioned by William of Malmesbury
>> in his /De Gestis Pontificum Anglorum/ (1125)
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=_NqOe4Z-zTcC&pg=PA311
>> They were probably used to count paternosters. The rosary didn't
>> develop till later, maybe the 15th century.
>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02361c.htm
>
>Correction humbly accepted.
>
>> Of course many other cultures use beads to count prayers,
>
>I wonder how many do this? I know some Japanese Buddhists have a beads-on-
>a-string device, but I don't know exactly how it's used, and I always
>wondered whether it might reflect Christian influence.
>
was on TV in an Celebrity Big Brother series in the UK. One of the
housemates was Jermaine Jackson (of the Jackson 5) who is a Muslim. On
one occasion I saw him sitting quietly at the edge of a group who were
having a discussion. I then noticed that he was using prayer beads. When
he finished silently praying he joined in the conversation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_beads#Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jermaine_Jackson
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
CDB
Jul 9, 2014, 7:59:41 AM7/9/14
to
On 08/07/2014 8:57 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
curb *of,* ...".
> Mark Brader wrote:
>> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British
>> usage. To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower,
>> as used to stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
>> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British
>> usage. To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower,
>> as used to stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
> In NYC a standpipe is a thing insice a building that there's a metal
> plaque in the sidewalk outside near the curb telling the firemen how
> far inside the building it's located.
> It might also be the name for the hydrant-like connections that
> emerge from building walls, but they don't get plaques in the
> sidewalk so I can't tell.
> Not "exotic" in the least.
Oy: "... that there's a metal plaque in the sidewalk outside near the
> plaque in the sidewalk outside near the curb telling the firemen how
> far inside the building it's located.
> It might also be the name for the hydrant-like connections that
> emerge from building walls, but they don't get plaques in the
> sidewalk so I can't tell.
> Not "exotic" in the least.
curb *of,* ...".
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 9, 2014, 9:33:03 AM7/9/14
to
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 7:59:41 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 08/07/2014 8:57 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > In NYC a standpipe is a thing inside a building that there's a metal
> On 08/07/2014 8:57 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > plaque in the sidewalk outside near the curb telling the firemen how
> > far inside the building it's located.
>
> > far inside the building it's located.
>
> Oy: "... that there's a metal plaque in the sidewalk outside near the
> curb *of,* ...".
Hunh? A curb isn't a curb "of" anything. It's the low step that divides
> curb *of,* ...".
the sidewalk from the roadway.
(That you explained it indicates that you realize it isn't a legitimate
Oy!.)
or do you want a double preposition not "outside the building"? Cf.
"inside the building" just afterward.
CDB
Jul 9, 2014, 10:17:33 AM7/9/14
to
On 09/07/2014 9:33 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
as "my curb". "My tree" nearby is also technically municipal property,
but I take care of it as well as I can.
> (That you explained it indicates that you realize it isn't a
> legitimate Oy!.)
> or do you want a double preposition not "outside the building"? Cf.
> "inside the building" just afterward.
I was being a little silly, but your sentence doesn't parse. It would
if "that" were replaced by a period ("your sentences" they would then
be), or "that there's" by "which has".
I believe that the aughmentation of Oy!s is a fundamental auewman right.
> CDB wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> In NYC a standpipe is a thing inside a building that there's a
>>> metal plaque in the sidewalk outside near the curb telling the
>>> firemen how far inside the building it's located.
>> Oy: "... that there's a metal plaque in the sidewalk outside near
>> the curb *of,* ...".
> Hunh? A curb isn't a curb "of" anything. It's the low step that
> divides the sidewalk from the roadway.
Maybe a personal peculiarity. I think of the curb in front of my house
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> In NYC a standpipe is a thing inside a building that there's a
>>> metal plaque in the sidewalk outside near the curb telling the
>>> firemen how far inside the building it's located.
>> Oy: "... that there's a metal plaque in the sidewalk outside near
>> the curb *of,* ...".
> Hunh? A curb isn't a curb "of" anything. It's the low step that
> divides the sidewalk from the roadway.
as "my curb". "My tree" nearby is also technically municipal property,
but I take care of it as well as I can.
> (That you explained it indicates that you realize it isn't a
> legitimate Oy!.)
> or do you want a double preposition not "outside the building"? Cf.
> "inside the building" just afterward.
if "that" were replaced by a period ("your sentences" they would then
be), or "that there's" by "which has".
I believe that the aughmentation of Oy!s is a fundamental auewman right.
snide...@gmail.com
Jul 9, 2014, 3:19:13 PM7/9/14
to
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 12:57:26 AM UTC-7, PeterWD wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 23:59:09 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 23:59:09 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
> >And one I'd accept "standpipe" for:
> ><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville,_Kentucky#mediaviewer/File:Louisville_water_tower.jpg>
> >or <http://tinyurl.com/LKyWaterTower>
> >
> >And another:
> ><http://www.panoramio.com/photo/58489910>
> ><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville,_Kentucky#mediaviewer/File:Louisville_water_tower.jpg>
> >or <http://tinyurl.com/LKyWaterTower>
> >
> >And another:
> ><http://www.panoramio.com/photo/58489910>
> Interesting. I wouldn't have expected those last two to be called pipes.
Me neither.
> To me a pipe is something that water goes in one end and comes out the
> other. That is not the case with those. I can see how a large
> cross-section pipe can be used for water storage but I'd hesistate to
> call it a pipe in that role.
>
> ODO has the same definition for standpipe in AmE and BrE:
>
> A vertical pipe extending from a water supply, especially one
> connecting a temporary tap to the mains.
>
so I was merely pointing at pix that seemed to fit that usage.
/dps "wasn't sure what to do with the 'Mercury capsule'-shaped one"
snide...@gmail.com
Jul 9, 2014, 3:23:23 PM7/9/14
to
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 7:20:58 AM UTC-7, Charles Bishop wrote:
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> > The same in the UK, in all areas. The "hydrant" is an underground
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> > connection point with a valve. The fire brigade or anyone else with a
> > right to connect to it carries "standpipes" and things (T-bars) for
> > opening the valves.
>
>
> Why do they carry standpipes? Or rather, what are standpipes there?
From the illustrations (snipped), it appears to be just a length of pipe that
"stands in the hole" when the lid is removed, and which has fittings to
a) attach to the hydrant
b) accept an attaching hose
For US hydrants, above ground level, the standpipe is permanent and below
ground (see my links re thrust blocks).
/dps
Whiskers
Jul 9, 2014, 4:34:35 PM7/9/14
to
On 2014-07-08, Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> In article <okjnr9dqh2904rdr6...@4ax.com>,
>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:45:15 +0200, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>>
>> >On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
>> >> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
>> >>
>> >>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
>> >>
>> >> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
>> >are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
>> >indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
hoses, a standpipe is connected to the hydrant so that the hose
attachments are easily accessible above ground. There may also be a
'converter' or 'adaptor' aspect to the standpipe - to match the hydrant
to the hoses.
> Here, they are pipes, usually within a building that can be used to
> fight fires local in the building. If there is usually no water in them,
> the fire crew hooks the water supply to one, which has outlets on
> various floors. The water can then be used to fight a fire in one
> apartment, for instance. If the standpipe has water in it, then it can
> be used by occupants of the building, as well as the FD.
We call those 'wet risers' if they have water in them at mains pressure,
or 'dry risers' if the fire-brigade have to pump water into them. Both
sorts are reserved for emergency use only, just as the outdoor fire
hydrants are - it's an offence to touch them without proper cause and
authority.
[...]
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
> In article <okjnr9dqh2904rdr6...@4ax.com>,
>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:45:15 +0200, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>>
>> >On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
>> >> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
>> >>
>> >>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
>> >>
>> >> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
>> >> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>> >>
>> >
>> >No such thing where I live. In residential areas underground hydrants
>> >>
>> >
>> >are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
>> >indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
>> >
>> >
>> The same in the UK, in all areas. The "hydrant" is an underground
>> connection point with a valve. The fire brigade or anyone else with a
>> right to connect to it carries "standpipes" and things (T-bars) for
>> opening the valves.
>
> Why do they carry standpipes? Or rather, what are standpipes there?
The fire hydrant is under the ground. To make it easier to attach the
>> >
>> The same in the UK, in all areas. The "hydrant" is an underground
>> connection point with a valve. The fire brigade or anyone else with a
>> right to connect to it carries "standpipes" and things (T-bars) for
>> opening the valves.
>
> Why do they carry standpipes? Or rather, what are standpipes there?
hoses, a standpipe is connected to the hydrant so that the hose
attachments are easily accessible above ground. There may also be a
'converter' or 'adaptor' aspect to the standpipe - to match the hydrant
to the hoses.
> Here, they are pipes, usually within a building that can be used to
> fight fires local in the building. If there is usually no water in them,
> the fire crew hooks the water supply to one, which has outlets on
> various floors. The water can then be used to fight a fire in one
> apartment, for instance. If the standpipe has water in it, then it can
> be used by occupants of the building, as well as the FD.
We call those 'wet risers' if they have water in them at mains pressure,
or 'dry risers' if the fire-brigade have to pump water into them. Both
sorts are reserved for emergency use only, just as the outdoor fire
hydrants are - it's an offence to touch them without proper cause and
authority.
[...]
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Charles Bishop
Jul 9, 2014, 4:45:12 PM7/9/14
to
In article <87tx6rv...@temporary-address.org.uk>,
> >> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
> >>
> >> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13
> >> 940
> >> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
> >
> > "Riser" has another different, less specific meaning in AmE. Sinks here,
> > bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
> > stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
> > valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
> > hoses, but once were tubing.
>
> We have that term to. We also use the expression "the rising main"
> meaning the main water supply into the house before the stop cock.
"water main" would be the term for the water supply line in the street,
that supplies water to various buildings. There is a term for the line
from the main to the house, but I'm blanking on it now. Your stop cock
would be a shutoff valve here. There is also a pressure regulator to
bring street pressure down to a level for the house, so various
appliances (mostly valves) don't get damaged by a higher pressure.
[snip]
--
charles
Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
> Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
> > In article <l94or91u4e8jkf5sa...@4ax.com>,
> > "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
[snip]
> Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
> > In article <l94or91u4e8jkf5sa...@4ax.com>,
> > "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> >> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
> >>
> >> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13
> >> 940
> >> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
> >
> > "Riser" has another different, less specific meaning in AmE. Sinks here,
> > bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
> > stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
> > valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
> > hoses, but once were tubing.
>
> We have that term to. We also use the expression "the rising main"
> meaning the main water supply into the house before the stop cock.
that supplies water to various buildings. There is a term for the line
from the main to the house, but I'm blanking on it now. Your stop cock
would be a shutoff valve here. There is also a pressure regulator to
bring street pressure down to a level for the house, so various
appliances (mostly valves) don't get damaged by a higher pressure.
[snip]
--
charles
Mike L
Jul 9, 2014, 5:31:16 PM7/9/14
to
--
Mike.
Mark Brader
Jul 9, 2014, 5:37:25 PM7/9/14
to
Nick Atty:
a main in each case.
> Your stop cock would be a shutoff valve here...
Same here.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Ken doesn't spell very well. Fortunately,
m...@vex.net he has other virtues." -- Dennis Ritchie
> > We also use the expression "the rising main"
> > meaning the main water supply into the house before the stop cock.
Charles Bishop:
> > meaning the main water supply into the house before the stop cock.
> "water main" would be the term for the water supply line in the street,
> that supplies water to various buildings. There is a term for the line
> from the main to the house, but I'm blanking on it now.
Water "service" (line or pipe) here. Similarly for gas. But to me it's
> that supplies water to various buildings. There is a term for the line
> from the main to the house, but I'm blanking on it now.
a main in each case.
> Your stop cock would be a shutoff valve here...
Same here.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Ken doesn't spell very well. Fortunately,
m...@vex.net he has other virtues." -- Dennis Ritchie
Mike L
Jul 9, 2014, 5:40:42 PM7/9/14
to
no water or electricity supply. At some, you had to go and dip from a
spring to fill a can, which we regarded as part of the fun of a
walking tour. At one, you had to walk across the railway to a
signal-box where one of the signalman's duties was apparently to
supply the weary traveller with water - in the hostel's stone "jug".
From him I heard the neat expression "Do you want the full of it?"
--
Mike.
Skitt
Jul 9, 2014, 6:20:54 PM7/9/14
to
On 7/9/2014 2:37 PM, Mark Brader wrote:
> Nick Atty:
>>> We also use the expression "the rising main"
>>> meaning the main water supply into the house before the stop cock.
>
> Charles Bishop:
>> "water main" would be the term for the water supply line in the street,
>> that supplies water to various buildings. There is a term for the line
>> from the main to the house, but I'm blanking on it now.
>
> Water "service" (line or pipe) here. Similarly for gas. But to me it's
> a main in each case.
>
>> Your stop cock would be a shutoff valve here...
>
> Same here.
>
Well, we know of stopcocks, but we write them as one word.
> Nick Atty:
>>> We also use the expression "the rising main"
>>> meaning the main water supply into the house before the stop cock.
>
> Charles Bishop:
>> "water main" would be the term for the water supply line in the street,
>> that supplies water to various buildings. There is a term for the line
>> from the main to the house, but I'm blanking on it now.
>
> Water "service" (line or pipe) here. Similarly for gas. But to me it's
> a main in each case.
>
>> Your stop cock would be a shutoff valve here...
>
> Same here.
>
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jul 9, 2014, 8:06:34 PM7/9/14
to
On Wed, 09 Jul 2014 13:45:12 -0700, Charles Bishop
<ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <87tx6rv...@temporary-address.org.uk>,
> Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> writes:
>>
>> > In article <l94or91u4e8jkf5sa...@4ax.com>,
>> > "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> >> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
>> >>
>> >> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13
>> >> 940
>> >> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
>> >>
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
>> >
>> > "Riser" has another different, less specific meaning in AmE. Sinks here,
>> > bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
>> > stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
>> > valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
>> > hoses, but once were tubing.
>>
>> We have that term to. We also use the expression "the rising main"
>> meaning the main water supply into the house before the stop cock.
>
>"water main" would be the term for the water supply line in the street,
>that supplies water to various buildings. There is a term for the line
>from the main to the house, but I'm blanking on it now.
The UK terminology is:
<ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <87tx6rv...@temporary-address.org.uk>,
> Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> writes:
>>
>> > In article <l94or91u4e8jkf5sa...@4ax.com>,
>> > "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> >> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
>> >>
>> >> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13
>> >> 940
>> >> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
>> >>
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
>> >
>> > "Riser" has another different, less specific meaning in AmE. Sinks here,
>> > bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
>> > stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
>> > valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
>> > hoses, but once were tubing.
>>
>> We have that term to. We also use the expression "the rising main"
>> meaning the main water supply into the house before the stop cock.
>
>"water main" would be the term for the water supply line in the street,
>that supplies water to various buildings. There is a term for the line
>from the main to the house, but I'm blanking on it now.
http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/rightsresponsibilities/supplypipes/
There are three different types of water pipes.
Water mains are the large company pipes that distribute water
around the network. They are often, but not always, laid under
highways.
Communication pipes carry water between the water mains and the
boundary of private property. If a company stop-tap has been fitted,
this will normally mark the end of pipework that is the
responsibility of the company and pipework that is the
responsibility of the property owner. Not all properties will have
their own stop-tap in the footpath but where one has been fitted,
this is normally the responsibility of the company to maintain.
Supply pipes are the smaller pipes that carry water from company
pipework into the property. Supply pipes run from the boundary of
the property (where there may be a company stop-tap) up until the
first water fitting or stop-tap inside the property. Stop-taps along
the length of the supply pipe, and any water fittings, are the
property owner’s responsibility to maintain.
> Your stop cock
>would be a shutoff valve here. There is also a pressure regulator to
>bring street pressure down to a level for the house, so various
>appliances (mostly valves) don't get damaged by a higher pressure.
>
>[snip]
--
Charles Bishop
Jul 9, 2014, 8:42:16 PM7/9/14
to
In article <g1mrr9pflgcoolpj0...@4ax.com>,
> >"water main" would be the term for the water supply line in the street,
> >that supplies water to various buildings. There is a term for the line
> >from the main to the house, but I'm blanking on it now.
>
> The UK terminology is:
> http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/rightsresponsibilities/supplypipes/
>
> There are three different types of water pipes.
>
> Water mains are the large company pipes that distribute water
> around the network. They are often, but not always, laid under
> highways.
>
> Communication pipes carry water between the water mains and the
> boundary of private property. If a company stop-tap has been fitted,
> this will normally mark the end of pipework that is the
> responsibility of the company and pipework that is the
> responsibility of the property owner. Not all properties will have
> their own stop-tap in the footpath but where one has been fitted,
> this is normally the responsibility of the company to maintain.
>
> Supply pipes are the smaller pipes that carry water from company
> pipework into the property. Supply pipes run from the boundary of
> the property (where there may be a company stop-tap) up until the
> first water fitting or stop-tap inside the property. Stop-taps along
> the length of the supply pipe, and any water fittings, are the
> property owner’s responsibility to maintain.
Same here for single family homes. The Water Co. maintains all lines,
including the water meter, and the homeowner maintains all the lines
from the meter to and into the house.
I don't know how condominiums or commonly owned buildings divide the
water among the various owners. Buildings that were set up long enough
ago probably don't meter water individually, but the building has a
water bill it has to pay, and the homeowners as a group are responsible
for this. In some cases this leads to a partial "tragedy of the commons"
as some use more water than others and don't have to pay the difference.
There were at one time here, cities that didn't meter water to
individuals, thinking that the cost of meters and bookkeeping was too
high given the low cost of water at the time. I think there are very
few, or even none of these now.
[snip]
Lake Mead, on the Colorado river is losing water. They have to drill
(very large drill) a new intake because the level may drop *below* the
intakes for the turbines that produce electrical power. Sis asked what
happens if the level drops much more. I suspect that the water
allocation for all the various states and agencies, not to mention
Mexico will have to be revisited.
Lake Mead supplies water to the city of Las Vegas and the surrounding
area and is in the desert. They are still building houses.
--
charles
[snip]
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2014 13:45:12 -0700, Charles Bishop
> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[snip]
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2014 13:45:12 -0700, Charles Bishop
> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >"water main" would be the term for the water supply line in the street,
> >that supplies water to various buildings. There is a term for the line
> >from the main to the house, but I'm blanking on it now.
>
> The UK terminology is:
> http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/rightsresponsibilities/supplypipes/
>
> There are three different types of water pipes.
>
> Water mains are the large company pipes that distribute water
> around the network. They are often, but not always, laid under
> highways.
>
> Communication pipes carry water between the water mains and the
> boundary of private property. If a company stop-tap has been fitted,
> this will normally mark the end of pipework that is the
> responsibility of the company and pipework that is the
> responsibility of the property owner. Not all properties will have
> their own stop-tap in the footpath but where one has been fitted,
> this is normally the responsibility of the company to maintain.
>
> Supply pipes are the smaller pipes that carry water from company
> pipework into the property. Supply pipes run from the boundary of
> the property (where there may be a company stop-tap) up until the
> first water fitting or stop-tap inside the property. Stop-taps along
> the length of the supply pipe, and any water fittings, are the
> property owner’s responsibility to maintain.
including the water meter, and the homeowner maintains all the lines
from the meter to and into the house.
I don't know how condominiums or commonly owned buildings divide the
water among the various owners. Buildings that were set up long enough
ago probably don't meter water individually, but the building has a
water bill it has to pay, and the homeowners as a group are responsible
for this. In some cases this leads to a partial "tragedy of the commons"
as some use more water than others and don't have to pay the difference.
There were at one time here, cities that didn't meter water to
individuals, thinking that the cost of meters and bookkeeping was too
high given the low cost of water at the time. I think there are very
few, or even none of these now.
[snip]
Lake Mead, on the Colorado river is losing water. They have to drill
(very large drill) a new intake because the level may drop *below* the
intakes for the turbines that produce electrical power. Sis asked what
happens if the level drops much more. I suspect that the water
allocation for all the various states and agencies, not to mention
Mexico will have to be revisited.
Lake Mead supplies water to the city of Las Vegas and the surrounding
area and is in the desert. They are still building houses.
--
charles
[snip]
Charles Bishop
Jul 9, 2014, 8:45:09 PM7/9/14
to
In article <lpkf83$tlh$1...@news.albasani.net>,
As did I until l looked up post (uppost, up-post?) and saw that someone,
attribution snipped, not by me, had used "stop cock". As I was
unfamiliar with the general usage, I followed suit.
--
charles
attribution snipped, not by me, had used "stop cock". As I was
unfamiliar with the general usage, I followed suit.
--
charles
snide...@gmail.com
Jul 9, 2014, 11:09:27 PM7/9/14
to
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 5:42:16 PM UTC-7, Charles Bishop wrote:
> Lake Mead, on the Colorado river is losing water. They have to drill
> (very large drill) a new intake because the level may drop *below* the
> intakes for the turbines that produce electrical power.
According to _Popular Science_, June 2014
> Lake Mead, on the Colorado river is losing water. They have to drill
> (very large drill) a new intake because the level may drop *below* the
> intakes for the turbines that produce electrical power.
(Vol 284 No. 6; Thompson, /The Last Straw/, pp 36ff),
the pipe ("The Third Straw") is being built for *drinking water* because
Intake #1, which supplies domestic water to the City of Las Vegas,
could be above water soon.
Lake Mead is more than 1/2 empty (44%) after being at capacity in the 1980s.
Water level is currently 1,108 feet above sea level, with a bottom somewhere around 800 feet.
> Sis asked what
> happens if the level drops much more. I suspect that the water
> allocation for all the various states and agencies, not to mention
> Mexico will have to be revisited.
(op cit, pg 38)
> Lake Mead supplies water to the city of Las Vegas and the surrounding
> area and is in the desert. They are still building houses.
One of the biggest chunks of the Colorado River water allotments seems to be the Imperial Valley of California. (In California's Central Valley, with different water sources, almond and pistachio farmers are burying their trees.)
(I've heard that in Arizona, one of the largest uses of various water sources is the growing of alfalfa for beef cattle.)
Meanwhile, the upper Midwest gets too much summer rain and experiences floods.
/dps
DannyD.
Jul 9, 2014, 11:10:59 PM7/9/14
to
Charles Bishop wrote, on Wed, 09 Jul 2014 17:42:16 -0700:
> Same here for single family homes. The Water Co. maintains all lines,
> including the water meter, and the homeowner maintains all the lines
> from the meter to and into the house.
Out here, the homeowner is responsible for everything.
> Same here for single family homes. The Water Co. maintains all lines,
> including the water meter, and the homeowner maintains all the lines
> from the meter to and into the house.
There is no water company.
Hence, the wharf hydrant is mandatory, as are the water tanks for storage.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2932/14558061386_72ee0ae293.jpg
snide...@gmail.com
Jul 9, 2014, 11:23:45 PM7/9/14
to
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 8:09:27 PM UTC-7, snide...@gmail.com fuelled the perception:
<http://xkcd.com/386/>
/dps "or so it seems"
<http://xkcd.com/386/>
/dps "or so it seems"
Mark Brader
Jul 10, 2014, 12:17:05 AM7/10/14
to
Charles Bishop:
> ...someone, attribution snipped, not by me...
That was Nick, and the attribution was still present in the text you requoted.
--
Mark Brader | Switzerland is also called water tower...
Toronto | And people are like here weather environment.
m...@vex.net | --seen in spam
> ...someone, attribution snipped, not by me...
That was Nick, and the attribution was still present in the text you requoted.
--
Mark Brader | Switzerland is also called water tower...
Toronto | And people are like here weather environment.
m...@vex.net | --seen in spam
Mark Brader
Jul 10, 2014, 12:32:41 AM7/10/14
to
Peter Duncanson:
part on city property where it branches off the main along the street
to reach private property (the "communication pipe" above), and the part
continuing from the property line to the house, ending at our shutoff
valve inside the house (the "supply pipe") above. I know about this
because ours was replaced a few years ago (who knew they were still
using lead pipes in the 21st century?).
The service line contains a shutoff valve (the "company stop-tap" above)
that was formerly below the sidewalk (the "footpath" above), but when
they replaced the pipe, they also relocated the valve to the property
line, which is in the middle of our front lawn. The other place seemed
rather more logical to me (the sidewalk is several feet lower than the
lawn and therefore nearer the pipe, and the valve control could be set
into the concrete), but of course it did mean that the valve wasn't at
the point where the ownership changes.
--
Mark Brader "If you design for compatibility with a
Toronto donkey cart, what you get is a donkey cart."
m...@vex.net -- ?, quoted by Henry Spencer
> The UK terminology is:
> http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/rightsresponsibilities/supplypipes/
>
> There are three different types of water pipes.
>
> Water mains are the large company pipes that distribute water
> around the network. They are often, but not always, laid under
> highways.
>
> Communication pipes carry water between the water mains and the
> boundary of private property. If a company stop-tap has been fitted,
> this will normally mark the end of pipework that is the
> responsibility of the company and pipework that is the
> responsibility of the property owner. Not all properties will have
> their own stop-tap in the footpath but where one has been fitted,
> this is normally the responsibility of the company to maintain.
>
> Supply pipes are the smaller pipes that carry water from company
> pipework into the property. Supply pipes run from the boundary of
> the property (where there may be a company stop-tap) up until the
> first water fitting or stop-tap inside the property. Stop-taps along
> the length of the supply pipe, and any water fittings, are the
> property owner's responsibility to maintain.
Whereas in our case the term "service" line or pipe includes both the
> http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/rightsresponsibilities/supplypipes/
>
> There are three different types of water pipes.
>
> Water mains are the large company pipes that distribute water
> around the network. They are often, but not always, laid under
> highways.
>
> Communication pipes carry water between the water mains and the
> boundary of private property. If a company stop-tap has been fitted,
> this will normally mark the end of pipework that is the
> responsibility of the company and pipework that is the
> responsibility of the property owner. Not all properties will have
> their own stop-tap in the footpath but where one has been fitted,
> this is normally the responsibility of the company to maintain.
>
> Supply pipes are the smaller pipes that carry water from company
> pipework into the property. Supply pipes run from the boundary of
> the property (where there may be a company stop-tap) up until the
> first water fitting or stop-tap inside the property. Stop-taps along
> the length of the supply pipe, and any water fittings, are the
> property owner's responsibility to maintain.
part on city property where it branches off the main along the street
to reach private property (the "communication pipe" above), and the part
continuing from the property line to the house, ending at our shutoff
valve inside the house (the "supply pipe") above. I know about this
because ours was replaced a few years ago (who knew they were still
using lead pipes in the 21st century?).
The service line contains a shutoff valve (the "company stop-tap" above)
that was formerly below the sidewalk (the "footpath" above), but when
they replaced the pipe, they also relocated the valve to the property
line, which is in the middle of our front lawn. The other place seemed
rather more logical to me (the sidewalk is several feet lower than the
lawn and therefore nearer the pipe, and the valve control could be set
into the concrete), but of course it did mean that the valve wasn't at
the point where the ownership changes.
--
Mark Brader "If you design for compatibility with a
Toronto donkey cart, what you get is a donkey cart."
m...@vex.net -- ?, quoted by Henry Spencer
pauljk
Jul 10, 2014, 2:20:39 AM7/10/14
to
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:je7or9duqa8ag0kcf...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:02:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>In article <l94or91u4e8jkf5sa...@4ax.com>,
>>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:22:31 -0700, Charles Bishop
>>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >In article <xZudnZeDuqK0OCbO...@vex.net>,
>>> > m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Danny D.:
>>> >> > > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Nick Atty:
>>> >> > All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>>> >> > the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>>
>>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
>>> >> > All I have on my wharf is a standpipe for drinking water which I - in
>>> >> > the way of canal people - prosaically call a "water point".
>>
>>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
>>between wharf, pier, and dock?
>
> And jetty?
And quay? (or key in AmE, IIRC)
pjk
> ISTR wed had a discussion on these words in aue not all that long ago.
>
> I think the main discovery was that the various words were used
> differently in different places by different people.
>
> Nick Atty is probably thinking of a wharf on a canal. It is a structure
> where barges are loaded and unloaded. This is the same function as with
> ships, just on a smaller scale.
>
> This shows one on the Llangollen Canal that has been adapted for tourist
> use. There is a crane (hand powered?) that would have been used for
> lifting freight on and off barges.
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Llangollen_canal_wharf.jpg
>
> This is another:
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Middlewich_-_Canal_Wharf.jpg
>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
>>> >>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> That's prosaic? Why not a "tap"?
>>> >>
>>> >> (Even "standpipe" is exotic. Wikipedia thinks it's a British usage.
>>> >> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
>>> >> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
>>> >
>>> >AmE as well. They are in multistory buildings and either are dry or have
>>> >> To me the primary meaning of "standpipe" is a water tower, as used to
>>> >> stabilize pressure in municipal water systems.)
>>> >
>>> >water in them, under pressure.
>>>
>>> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
>>>
>>> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13940
>>> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
>>
>>"Riser" has another different, less specific meaning in AmE. Sinks here,
>>bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
>>stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
>>valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
>>hoses, but once were tubing.
>>
>>Standpipes, in my experience and usage are larger diameter, designed to
>>> In BrE those are "dry risers" and "wet risers".
>>>
>>> http://www.chubb.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D13940
>>> %26siteId%3D403,00.html
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_riser
>>
>>"Riser" has another different, less specific meaning in AmE. Sinks here,
>>bathroom and kitchen (and others) usually have a shutoff valve (angle
>>stop) in a cabinet below the sink. The "pipe" that gets water from the
>>valve to the sink faucet is called a "riser". Now these are flexible
>>hoses, but once were tubing.
>>
>>carry larger amounts of water, "dry standpipe" and "wet standpipe" for
>>the two types.
>
> A "stand(-)pipe" is simply a pipe that stands, i.e., is upright.
> http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stand-pipe&allowed_in_frame=0
Snidely
Jul 10, 2014, 4:31:18 AM7/10/14
to
Just this Wednesday, pauljk exclaimed that ...
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message X
[I think that's enough attr's to ibute]
>>>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
>>>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
>>>between wharf, pier, and dock?
>>
>> And jetty?
>
> And quay? (or key in AmE, IIRC)
"Key" is only familiar from those funny appendages to Florida where
only the top of the hill shows.
For the fabricated tie-up locations, we tend to use "quay", with the
occasional real-estate accent of "quai". But "dock" is much more
common when referring to small boats; wharf and pier are for serious
(and commercial) harbors, except when the Navy has 'em.
/dps
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message X
[I think that's enough attr's to ibute]
>>>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
>>>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
>>>between wharf, pier, and dock?
>>
>> And jetty?
>
> And quay? (or key in AmE, IIRC)
only the top of the hill shows.
For the fabricated tie-up locations, we tend to use "quay", with the
occasional real-estate accent of "quai". But "dock" is much more
common when referring to small boats; wharf and pier are for serious
(and commercial) harbors, except when the Navy has 'em.
/dps
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
pauljk
Jul 10, 2014, 9:06:07 AM7/10/14
to
"Snidely" <snide...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:mn.505b7de7eb7749bc.127094@snitoo...
> Just this Wednesday, pauljk exclaimed that ...
>> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message X
>>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:02:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
>>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> [I think that's enough attr's to ibute]
>
>>>>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
>>>>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
>>>>between wharf, pier, and dock?
>>>
>>> And jetty?
>>
>> And quay? (or key in AmE, IIRC)
>
> "Key" is only familiar from those funny appendages to Florida where
> only the top of the hill shows.
>
> For the fabricated tie-up locations, we tend to use "quay", with the
> occasional real-estate accent of "quai". But "dock" is much more
> common when referring to small boats; wharf and pier are for serious
> (and commercial) harbors, except when the Navy has 'em.
Thanks for that correction. Just as well I said IIRC because I wasn't
>> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message X
>>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:02:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
>>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> [I think that's enough attr's to ibute]
>
>>>>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
>>>>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
>>>>between wharf, pier, and dock?
>>>
>>> And jetty?
>>
>> And quay? (or key in AmE, IIRC)
>
> "Key" is only familiar from those funny appendages to Florida where
> only the top of the hill shows.
>
> For the fabricated tie-up locations, we tend to use "quay", with the
> occasional real-estate accent of "quai". But "dock" is much more
> common when referring to small boats; wharf and pier are for serious
> (and commercial) harbors, except when the Navy has 'em.
quite sure if I remembered it correctly. Some years ago I was driving
along the Wellington's Lambton Quay with a visiting US business partner.
He tried to pronounce "Quay" but mangled it completely out of recognition,
then asked how it was pronounced. I told him the same as "Key".
I was left with the impression that "quay" wasn't used in the US.
But, hey, he was from Omaha.
When I was visiting Omaha, we went water skiing on the Missoury
River but I don't remember whether the quays alongside the river
were called "quays", "keys", or something entirely different.
pjk
CDB
Jul 10, 2014, 9:20:15 AM7/10/14
to
On 09/07/2014 5:31 PM, Mike L wrote:
> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
[silly!]
>> I believe that the aughmentation of Oy!s is a fundamental auewman
>> right.
> Oh, the auemanity!
I had introduced the "w" version in the interests of inclusiveness. But
I suppose that way auewgbltamanity lies. (The second "a" is for "asexual".)
> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
[silly!]
>> I believe that the aughmentation of Oy!s is a fundamental auewman
>> right.
> Oh, the auemanity!
I suppose that way auewgbltamanity lies. (The second "a" is for "asexual".)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jul 10, 2014, 11:14:36 AM7/10/14
to
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 01:06:07 +1200, "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:
A quick look at GMaps and a few websites found "wharfs" on that river.
Whether that word is used for all such places I don't know.
wrote:
Whether that word is used for all such places I don't know.
Charles Bishop
Jul 10, 2014, 11:42:31 AM7/10/14
to
In article <lplbdt$mhn$1...@dont-email.me>,
pronounced "key" but is a small island.
Some of the Florida Keys are cays.
--
charles
"pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
> news:je7or9duqa8ag0kcf...@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:02:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
> > <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
> >>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
> >>between wharf, pier, and dock?
> >
> > And jetty?
>
> And quay? (or key in AmE, IIRC)
As far as I know, it quay, which may be pronounced "key". "Cay" is also
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
> news:je7or9duqa8ag0kcf...@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:02:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
> > <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
> >>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
> >>between wharf, pier, and dock?
> >
> > And jetty?
>
> And quay? (or key in AmE, IIRC)
pronounced "key" but is a small island.
Some of the Florida Keys are cays.
--
charles
Charles Bishop
Jul 10, 2014, 11:46:55 AM7/10/14
to
In article <lpl083$jl7$1...@news.albasani.net>,
"DannyD." <Dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
> https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2932/14558061386_72ee0ae293.jpg
Are those tanks under pressure?
Where does the water in the tanks go?
Where does the water in the yellow pipe come from?
Is the device on top of the yellow pipe a hydrant, designed to draw off
water with hoses, in case of a separate need, such as a fire?
--
Charles
"DannyD." <Dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
> https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2932/14558061386_72ee0ae293.jpg
Are those tanks under pressure?
Where does the water in the tanks go?
Where does the water in the yellow pipe come from?
Is the device on top of the yellow pipe a hydrant, designed to draw off
water with hoses, in case of a separate need, such as a fire?
--
Charles
Charles Bishop
Jul 10, 2014, 12:14:48 PM7/10/14
to
In article <79a76657-5180-41cb...@googlegroups.com>,
the intake for the turbines would be at a lowest point in the interest
of extracting as much energy as possible.
The tour of the dam and its workings has been severely restricted in the
service of safety, though it's still interesting.
interchanges there are metal sculptures of common animals, along with
fake steel trees.
cost effective?
--
charles
snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 5:42:16 PM UTC-7, Charles Bishop wrote:
>
> > Lake Mead, on the Colorado river is losing water. They have to drill
> > (very large drill) a new intake because the level may drop *below* the
> > intakes for the turbines that produce electrical power.
>
> According to _Popular Science_, June 2014
> (Vol 284 No. 6; Thompson, /The Last Straw/, pp 36ff),
> the pipe ("The Third Straw") is being built for *drinking water* because
> Intake #1, which supplies domestic water to the City of Las Vegas,
> could be above water soon.
> Lake Mead is more than 1/2 empty (44%) after being at capacity in the 1980s.
> Water level is currently 1,108 feet above sea level, with a bottom somewhere
> around 800 feet.
Thanks for this and all future corrections. I should have expected that
> On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 5:42:16 PM UTC-7, Charles Bishop wrote:
>
> > Lake Mead, on the Colorado river is losing water. They have to drill
> > (very large drill) a new intake because the level may drop *below* the
> > intakes for the turbines that produce electrical power.
>
> According to _Popular Science_, June 2014
> (Vol 284 No. 6; Thompson, /The Last Straw/, pp 36ff),
> the pipe ("The Third Straw") is being built for *drinking water* because
> Intake #1, which supplies domestic water to the City of Las Vegas,
> could be above water soon.
> Lake Mead is more than 1/2 empty (44%) after being at capacity in the 1980s.
> Water level is currently 1,108 feet above sea level, with a bottom somewhere
> around 800 feet.
the intake for the turbines would be at a lowest point in the interest
of extracting as much energy as possible.
The tour of the dam and its workings has been severely restricted in the
service of safety, though it's still interesting.
>
> > Sis asked what
> > happens if the level drops much more. I suspect that the water
> > allocation for all the various states and agencies, not to mention
> > Mexico will have to be revisited.
>
> "The federal Bureau of Reclamation has predicted that the water level at Lake
> Mead could fall below 1,075 feet of elevation as soon as January 2016,
> prompting automatic reductions in the states' allocations"
> (op cit, pg 38)
>
> > Lake Mead supplies water to the city of Las Vegas and the surrounding
> > area and is in the desert. They are still building houses.
>
> They also are the leading experts in water reclamation and in grass-less,
> xerophilic landscaping.
They do a good job of this, using rocks and gravel. Along some freeway
> > Sis asked what
> > happens if the level drops much more. I suspect that the water
> > allocation for all the various states and agencies, not to mention
> > Mexico will have to be revisited.
>
> "The federal Bureau of Reclamation has predicted that the water level at Lake
> Mead could fall below 1,075 feet of elevation as soon as January 2016,
> prompting automatic reductions in the states' allocations"
> (op cit, pg 38)
>
> > Lake Mead supplies water to the city of Las Vegas and the surrounding
> > area and is in the desert. They are still building houses.
>
> They also are the leading experts in water reclamation and in grass-less,
> xerophilic landscaping.
interchanges there are metal sculptures of common animals, along with
fake steel trees.
>
> One of the biggest chunks of the Colorado River water allotments seems to be
> the Imperial Valley of California. (In California's Central Valley, with
> different water sources, almond and pistachio farmers are burying their
> trees.)
> (I've heard that in Arizona, one of the largest uses of various water sources
> is the growing of alfalfa for beef cattle.)
>
> Meanwhile, the upper Midwest gets too much summer rain and experiences
> floods.
I wonder how much water would have to cost before a pipeline would be
> One of the biggest chunks of the Colorado River water allotments seems to be
> the Imperial Valley of California. (In California's Central Valley, with
> different water sources, almond and pistachio farmers are burying their
> trees.)
> (I've heard that in Arizona, one of the largest uses of various water sources
> is the growing of alfalfa for beef cattle.)
>
> Meanwhile, the upper Midwest gets too much summer rain and experiences
> floods.
cost effective?
--
charles
Charles Bishop
Jul 10, 2014, 12:16:18 PM7/10/14
to
In article <q-CdncjgLrlcjiPO...@vex.net>,
--
charles, snip, snip, snip snipetty, snereee
m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> Charles Bishop:
> > ...someone, attribution snipped, not by me...
>
> That was Nick, and the attribution was still present in the text you requoted.
No way to check here though.
> Charles Bishop:
> > ...someone, attribution snipped, not by me...
>
> That was Nick, and the attribution was still present in the text you requoted.
--
charles, snip, snip, snip snipetty, snereee
J. J. Lodder
Jul 10, 2014, 1:19:07 PM7/10/14
to
Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
> On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
> > FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
> >
> >> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
> >
> > Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
> On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
> > FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
> >
> >> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
> >
> > Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
> > I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
> >
>
> >
>
> No such thing where I live. In residential areas underground hydrants
> are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
> indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
>
>
> > "A wharf head by definition is a hydrant which connects directly
> are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
> indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
>
>
> > to a wet riser.
> >
> > On wharves and piers there is no practical ability to install a
> > "hydrant bury" complete with foot valves and thrust blocks and
> > the name has stuck to all hydrants that are basically just
> > hydrant tops screwed onto vertical pipes.
> >
> > Their common characteristic is that they literally thread
> > onto a piece of iron pipe. The majority of wharf heads thread
> > onto 4" pipe and have a single operating nut at the top of the
> > hydrant."
> >
From Old Dutch 'erf' and 'werf' meaning 'yard'.
In modern Dutch the meaning has become specialised,
with 'erf' meaning yard, and 'werf' meaning shipyard.
In special cases 'werf' as a pace where big things are stored,
or as a piece of land at the waters edge
(without any reference to shipbuilding) does survive,
Jan
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 10, 2014, 2:41:11 PM7/10/14
to
On Thursday, July 10, 2014 12:16:18 PM UTC-4, Charles Bishop wrote:
> charles, snip, snip, snip snipetty, snereee
I wish. Why are you guys crossposting all this to sci.lang?
> charles, snip, snip, snip snipetty, snereee
Mike L
Jul 10, 2014, 4:27:00 PM7/10/14
to
sti-ill pla-ay, / O'er the LGBT, and the haunts of the gay?"
--
Mike.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jul 10, 2014, 7:39:39 PM7/10/14
to
to: alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage,sci.lang.
The rest of us have simply been replying without changing the list of
ngs.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Charles Bishop
Jul 10, 2014, 8:18:55 PM7/10/14
to
In article <d637ec34-7433-4594...@googlegroups.com>,
A fair cop. I didn't look at the headers before I posted.
--
charles, He started it
--
charles, He started it
Tony Cooper
Jul 11, 2014, 12:57:09 AM7/11/14
to
>"Snidely" <snide...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:mn.505b7de7eb7749bc.127094@snitoo...
>> Just this Wednesday, pauljk exclaimed that ...
>>> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message X
>>>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:02:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
>>>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> [I think that's enough attr's to ibute]
>>
>>>>>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
>>>>>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
>>>>>between wharf, pier, and dock?
>>>>
>>>> And jetty?
>>>
>>> And quay? (or key in AmE, IIRC)
>>
>> "Key" is only familiar from those funny appendages to Florida where
>> only the top of the hill shows.
>>
>> For the fabricated tie-up locations, we tend to use "quay", with the
>> occasional real-estate accent of "quai". But "dock" is much more
>> common when referring to small boats; wharf and pier are for serious
>> (and commercial) harbors, except when the Navy has 'em.
>
>Thanks for that correction. Just as well I said IIRC because I wasn't
>quite sure if I remembered it correctly. Some years ago I was driving
>along the Wellington's Lambton Quay with a visiting US business partner.
>He tried to pronounce "Quay" but mangled it completely out of recognition,
>then asked how it was pronounced. I told him the same as "Key".
>I was left with the impression that "quay" wasn't used in the US.
>
>But, hey, he was from Omaha.
I feel for the guy. The first time we went to Ireland, I asked
>> Just this Wednesday, pauljk exclaimed that ...
>>> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message X
>>>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:02:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
>>>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> [I think that's enough attr's to ibute]
>>
>>>>>Does Nick Atty really have a "wharf", which for means a large structure
>>>>>that could service ships rather than boats? What is the distinction
>>>>>between wharf, pier, and dock?
>>>>
>>>> And jetty?
>>>
>>> And quay? (or key in AmE, IIRC)
>>
>> "Key" is only familiar from those funny appendages to Florida where
>> only the top of the hill shows.
>>
>> For the fabricated tie-up locations, we tend to use "quay", with the
>> occasional real-estate accent of "quai". But "dock" is much more
>> common when referring to small boats; wharf and pier are for serious
>> (and commercial) harbors, except when the Navy has 'em.
>
>Thanks for that correction. Just as well I said IIRC because I wasn't
>quite sure if I remembered it correctly. Some years ago I was driving
>along the Wellington's Lambton Quay with a visiting US business partner.
>He tried to pronounce "Quay" but mangled it completely out of recognition,
>then asked how it was pronounced. I told him the same as "Key".
>I was left with the impression that "quay" wasn't used in the US.
>
>But, hey, he was from Omaha.
directions to some place in Dublin that was at something-quay. I
pronounced it "kway".
It may have been the same day I said "Dun Loghair".
My excuse is that I'm from Indiana.
>
>When I was visiting Omaha, we went water skiing on the Missoury
>River but I don't remember whether the quays alongside the river
>were called "quays", "keys", or something entirely different.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Tony Cooper
Jul 11, 2014, 1:08:18 AM7/11/14
to
tank with my well. Mine looks more like this:
http://tinyurl.com/k397q98
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Amtrol-WX-252-WX-252-145S20-86-Gal-WELL-X-TROL-Well-Tank-Stand?gclid=CjwKEAjw8_idBRCExfC15My3owwSJACSDX_WGevoLsi5oxP6dm3XK828ENvj7G7QQyNHJNQ0D7X4sRoCcCPw_wcB
Water comes up from the well, goes into this tank, and goes from the
tank to my house. The well head is deep in the ground.
The tank has a bladder in it, and the bladder is surrounded by air.
There's a valve at the top of the tank (just like the valve on a
bicycle tire) that allows me to add air (to increase the pressure),
but I've never had to.
Whatever's in that photo must be to provide a helluva lot of water. My
single tank is about 5 foot high, and it supplies water for the whole
house and my lawn irrigation system.
Tom P
Jul 11, 2014, 4:31:44 AM7/11/14
to
On 08.07.2014 13:25, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> connection point with a valve. The fire brigade or anyone else with a
> right to connect to it carries "standpipes" and things (T-bars) for
> opening the valves.
>
> There is a yellow marker plate with an H and two numbers. One number is
> the diameter of the water supply pipe in millimetres and the other is
> the distance in metres between the sign and the "hydrant pit". The pit
> has a cover on it marked FH. Typically the cover is painted yellow.
> http://www.dorsetfire.gov.uk/community/fire-hydrants/
>
I wish I hadn't started this, now I walk round all day looking for fire
hydrants, lol... anyway the marker plates round here are blue for water,
yellow for gas, and white with a red border for fire hydrants.
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:45:15 +0200, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>
>> On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
>>> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
>>>
>>>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
>>>
>>> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
>>> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>>>
>>
>> No such thing where I live. In residential areas underground hydrants
>> are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
>> indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
>>
>>
> The same in the UK, in all areas. The "hydrant" is an underground
>
>> On 08.07.2014 00:37, DannyD. wrote:
>>> FromTheRafters wrote, on Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:46:09 -0400:
>>>
>>>> http://www.firehosedirect.com/wharf-hydrants/
>>>
>>> Well, that pretty much defines it. Thanks!
>>> I wonder what the Europeans call their residential wharf hydrants?
>>>
>>
>> No such thing where I live. In residential areas underground hydrants
>> are commonly located on the sidewalk. The exact location and type is
>> indicated on a placard close by. http://tinyurl.com/l6k3e4e
>>
>>
> connection point with a valve. The fire brigade or anyone else with a
> right to connect to it carries "standpipes" and things (T-bars) for
> opening the valves.
>
> There is a yellow marker plate with an H and two numbers. One number is
> the diameter of the water supply pipe in millimetres and the other is
> the distance in metres between the sign and the "hydrant pit". The pit
> has a cover on it marked FH. Typically the cover is painted yellow.
> http://www.dorsetfire.gov.uk/community/fire-hydrants/
>
I wish I hadn't started this, now I walk round all day looking for fire
hydrants, lol... anyway the marker plates round here are blue for water,
yellow for gas, and white with a red border for fire hydrants.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jul 11, 2014, 6:26:34 AM7/11/14
to
Because the post that started the thread was crossposted we can't remove
one or two of the newsgroups because we don't know which newsgroup the
OP and others are reading the thread in.
CDB
Jul 11, 2014, 8:21:41 AM7/11/14
to
On 10/07/2014 4:27 PM, Mike L wrote:
> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mike L wrote:
>>> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [silly!]
>>>> I believe that the aughmentation of Oy!s is a fundamental
>>>> auewman right.
>>> Oh, the auemanity!
>> I had introduced the "w" version in the interests of inclusiveness.
>> But I suppose that way auewgbltamanity lies. (The second "a" is
>> for "asexual".)
> Hoist the rainbow banner! "Oh, say, does the rainbo-ow ba-anner
> sti-ill pla-ay, / O'er the LGBT, and the haunts of the gay?"
Could be about food. "Oh say, does that rasher 'neath toasted whi-ite
> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mike L wrote:
>>> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [silly!]
>>>> I believe that the aughmentation of Oy!s is a fundamental
>>>> auewman right.
>>> Oh, the auemanity!
>> I had introduced the "w" version in the interests of inclusiveness.
>> But I suppose that way auewgbltamanity lies. (The second "a" is
>> for "asexual".)
> Hoist the rainbow banner! "Oh, say, does the rainbo-ow ba-anner
> sti-ill pla-ay, / O'er the LGBT, and the haunts of the gay?"
still cru-unch/ To spoil a vegetarian (or kosher) lunch?"
Bill McCray
Jul 11, 2014, 8:21:46 AM7/11/14
to
On 7/11/2014 12:57 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> I feel for the guy. The first time we went to Ireland, I asked
> directions to some place in Dublin that was at something-quay. I
> pronounced it "kway".
If they don't want it pronounced "kway", they should spell it
> I feel for the guy. The first time we went to Ireland, I asked
> directions to some place in Dublin that was at something-quay. I
> pronounced it "kway".
differently. This is a case in which I had heard a word and had seen
the word, but had had no reason to equate the two. Two other cases
where that has happened to me were "ennui" and "segue".
Bill in Kentucky
Jerry Friedman
Jul 11, 2014, 10:39:03 AM7/11/14
to
parody of "God Save the Queen". Oh, wait, we already have.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Jul 11, 2014, 11:08:20 AM7/11/14
to
On 7/8/14 5:37 PM, Ross wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 4:11:44 AM UTC+12, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 7/7/14 11:03 PM, Ross wrote:
>>> I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is interesting
>>> in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of European
>>> Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>>
>> Or repeating prayers in general. The use of beads (by Lady Godiva in
>> the 11th century) to count prayers is mentioned by William of Malmesbury
>> in his /De Gestis Pontificum Anglorum/ (1125)
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=_NqOe4Z-zTcC&pg=PA311
>> They were probably used to count paternosters. The rosary didn't
>> develop till later, maybe the 15th century.
>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02361c.htm
>
> Correction humbly accepted.
I got carried away when I found out how hard it was to get a reliable
answer. I hope it didn't look like I was trying to induce humility.
>> Of course many other cultures use beads to count prayers,
>
> I wonder how many do this? I know some Japanese Buddhists have a beads-on-
> a-string device, but I don't know exactly how it's used, and I always
> wondered whether it might reflect Christian influence.
According to Wikipedia, the oldest known (apparent) prayer beads are
Hindu, so it's probably more Hindu influence. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_prayer_beads
So Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, and Roman and Anglo-Catholic. (Apparently
Orthodox Christians generally use knotted cords.) Wikipedia also
mentions Baha'i.
Depending on your definitions, my "many" might have been an exaggeration.
>> but I don't
>> know whether any of them have adopted a word for prayer to mean a bead.
>
> I wonder whether it has even happened elsewhere in Christendom?
>
>> It seems to me that the etymology of "bead" has two steps, first the
>> metonymy from "prayer" to "object on a string used to count prayers",
>> then the generalization to any object of that type.
>
> Agreed. And it's the metonymy part that I find most interesting and
> distinctive, which is why I was surprised at Peter saying the hydrant
> case was "exactly the same".
...
Another of my favorites is "check".
>>> Similar to "jockey shorts" or "tabasco pepper".
>>
>> Or leaving out the "place" aspect, "tennis shoes", "watch cap"
>> (apparently now replaced by "beanie", at least around here), "baseball
>> cap", "lobster sauce", "potato peeler", "pipe cleaner", "fish slice"
>> (BrE), etc.
>
> Nice collection.
...
I meant to add an example of organism names. Around here all the vireos
(from the Latin for "green"--apparently Pliny used it for some bird) are
gray.
--
Jerry Friedman
> On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 4:11:44 AM UTC+12, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 7/7/14 11:03 PM, Ross wrote:
>>> I think of the "bead" example as a case of metonymy, which is interesting
>>> in being understandable only via a very specific aspect of European
>>> Christian culture (praying the rosary).
>>
>> Or repeating prayers in general. The use of beads (by Lady Godiva in
>> the 11th century) to count prayers is mentioned by William of Malmesbury
>> in his /De Gestis Pontificum Anglorum/ (1125)
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=_NqOe4Z-zTcC&pg=PA311
>> They were probably used to count paternosters. The rosary didn't
>> develop till later, maybe the 15th century.
>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02361c.htm
>
> Correction humbly accepted.
I got carried away when I found out how hard it was to get a reliable
answer. I hope it didn't look like I was trying to induce humility.
>> Of course many other cultures use beads to count prayers,
>
> I wonder how many do this? I know some Japanese Buddhists have a beads-on-
> a-string device, but I don't know exactly how it's used, and I always
> wondered whether it might reflect Christian influence.
According to Wikipedia, the oldest known (apparent) prayer beads are
Hindu, so it's probably more Hindu influence. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_prayer_beads
So Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, and Roman and Anglo-Catholic. (Apparently
Orthodox Christians generally use knotted cords.) Wikipedia also
mentions Baha'i.
Depending on your definitions, my "many" might have been an exaggeration.
>> but I don't
>> know whether any of them have adopted a word for prayer to mean a bead.
>
> I wonder whether it has even happened elsewhere in Christendom?
>
>> It seems to me that the etymology of "bead" has two steps, first the
>> metonymy from "prayer" to "object on a string used to count prayers",
>> then the generalization to any object of that type.
>
> Agreed. And it's the metonymy part that I find most interesting and
> distinctive, which is why I was surprised at Peter saying the hydrant
> case was "exactly the same".
...
Another of my favorites is "check".
>>> Similar to "jockey shorts" or "tabasco pepper".
>>
>> Or leaving out the "place" aspect, "tennis shoes", "watch cap"
>> (apparently now replaced by "beanie", at least around here), "baseball
>> cap", "lobster sauce", "potato peeler", "pipe cleaner", "fish slice"
>> (BrE), etc.
>
> Nice collection.
...
I meant to add an example of organism names. Around here all the vireos
(from the Latin for "green"--apparently Pliny used it for some bird) are
gray.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Jul 11, 2014, 12:11:35 PM7/11/14
to
On 7/8/14 10:11 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
...
> The rosary didn't
> develop till later, maybe the 15th century.
>
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02361c.htm
...
Actually, the first reference suggests a gradual development starting in
the 12th century.
--
Jerry Friedman
...
> The rosary didn't
> develop till later, maybe the 15th century.
>
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02361c.htm
Actually, the first reference suggests a gradual development starting in
the 12th century.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 11, 2014, 1:14:27 PM7/11/14
to
No one in sci.lang is participating.
Mike L
Jul 11, 2014, 4:03:32 PM7/11/14
to
catch-dialogues favoured by her men-at-arms, though. "Cheer up, Spud!
You're doing this for the Queen!" "Oh, fuck the Queen!" "No, I haven't
had me dinner yet."
--
Mike.
Mike L
Jul 11, 2014, 4:07:29 PM7/11/14
to
Copenhagen.
--
Mike.
James Hogg
Jul 11, 2014, 5:31:25 PM7/11/14
to
however, for using the German name Kopenhagen in an English song.
--
James
CDB
Jul 12, 2014, 8:50:11 AM7/12/14
to
On 11/07/2014 5:31 PM, James Hogg wrote:
> Mike L wrote:
even some other vowels) in foreign words? Not that I'm condoning the
error. (Consider "Jeanne Benoit" with "Zhahn", and "La Grenouille" as
"Lah Grahnwee", in old episodes of NCIS.)
> Mike L wrote:
>> Bill McCray <billm...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> I feel for the guy. The first time we went to Ireland, I
>>>> asked directions to some place in Dublin that was at
>>>> something-quay. I pronounced it "kway".
>>> If they don't want it pronounced "kway", they should spell it
>>> differently. This is a case in which I had heard a word and had
>>> seen the word, but had had no reason to equate the two. Two
>>> other cases where that has happened to me were "ennui" and
>>> "segue".
>> Danny Kaye pronounced it "kay" - in, presumably, that daft song
>> about Copenhagen.
> His excuse was that he needed a rhyme for "gay". He had no excuse,
> however, for using the German name Kopenhagen in an English song.
Haven't we heard that [A] is the default vowel in the US for "a" (and
>>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> I feel for the guy. The first time we went to Ireland, I
>>>> asked directions to some place in Dublin that was at
>>>> something-quay. I pronounced it "kway".
>>> If they don't want it pronounced "kway", they should spell it
>>> differently. This is a case in which I had heard a word and had
>>> seen the word, but had had no reason to equate the two. Two
>>> other cases where that has happened to me were "ennui" and
>>> "segue".
>> Danny Kaye pronounced it "kay" - in, presumably, that daft song
>> about Copenhagen.
> His excuse was that he needed a rhyme for "gay". He had no excuse,
> however, for using the German name Kopenhagen in an English song.
even some other vowels) in foreign words? Not that I'm condoning the
error. (Consider "Jeanne Benoit" with "Zhahn", and "La Grenouille" as
"Lah Grahnwee", in old episodes of NCIS.)
Guy Barry
Jul 12, 2014, 11:21:56 AM7/12/14
to
"CDB" wrote in message news:lprau3$rgo$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
--
Guy Barry
>
>On 11/07/2014 5:31 PM, James Hogg wrote:
>> His excuse was that he needed a rhyme for "gay". He had no excuse,
>> however, for using the German name Kopenhagen in an English song.
>
>Haven't we heard that [A] is the default vowel in the US for "a" (and
>even some other vowels) in foreign words?
Yes, but "Copenhagen" isn't a foreign word.
>On 11/07/2014 5:31 PM, James Hogg wrote:
>> His excuse was that he needed a rhyme for "gay". He had no excuse,
>> however, for using the German name Kopenhagen in an English song.
>
>Haven't we heard that [A] is the default vowel in the US for "a" (and
>even some other vowels) in foreign words?
--
Guy Barry
Charles Bishop
Jul 12, 2014, 6:44:12 PM7/12/14
to
In article <4nrur9pk82p56nuqn...@4ax.com>,
On a recent trip I saw some things that could have been water towers
similar to the photo: tall tanks, of a uniform diameter. They may be
more common than I thought.
I assume that a raised water tower is needed for large quantities for a
large number of people. There are water tanks around here that aren't
raised, but they are on hills, higher than the surrounding houses.
--
charles
Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:46:55 -0700, Charles Bishop
> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <lpl083$jl7$1...@news.albasani.net>,
> > "DannyD." <Dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2932/14558061386_72ee0ae293.jpg
> >
> >Are those tanks under pressure?
> >
> >Where does the water in the tanks go?
> >
> >Where does the water in the yellow pipe come from?
> >
> >Is the device on top of the yellow pipe a hydrant, designed to draw off
> >water with hoses, in case of a separate need, such as a fire?
>
> I don't know about the ones in the photo, but I have a very similar
> tank with my well. Mine looks more like this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/k397q98
> http://www.supplyhouse.com/Amtrol-WX-252-WX-252-145S20-86-Gal-WELL-X-TROL-Well
> -Tank-Stand?gclid=CjwKEAjw8_idBRCExfC15My3owwSJACSDX_WGevoLsi5oxP6dm3XK828ENvj
> 7G7QQyNHJNQ0D7X4sRoCcCPw_wcB
>
> Water comes up from the well, goes into this tank, and goes from the
> tank to my house. The well head is deep in the ground.
The well head is where the power and pump is? Or is it an artesian well?
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:46:55 -0700, Charles Bishop
> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <lpl083$jl7$1...@news.albasani.net>,
> > "DannyD." <Dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2932/14558061386_72ee0ae293.jpg
> >
> >Are those tanks under pressure?
> >
> >Where does the water in the tanks go?
> >
> >Where does the water in the yellow pipe come from?
> >
> >Is the device on top of the yellow pipe a hydrant, designed to draw off
> >water with hoses, in case of a separate need, such as a fire?
>
> I don't know about the ones in the photo, but I have a very similar
> tank with my well. Mine looks more like this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/k397q98
> http://www.supplyhouse.com/Amtrol-WX-252-WX-252-145S20-86-Gal-WELL-X-TROL-Well
> -Tank-Stand?gclid=CjwKEAjw8_idBRCExfC15My3owwSJACSDX_WGevoLsi5oxP6dm3XK828ENvj
> 7G7QQyNHJNQ0D7X4sRoCcCPw_wcB
>
> Water comes up from the well, goes into this tank, and goes from the
> tank to my house. The well head is deep in the ground.
>
> The tank has a bladder in it, and the bladder is surrounded by air.
> There's a valve at the top of the tank (just like the valve on a
> bicycle tire) that allows me to add air (to increase the pressure),
> but I've never had to.
>
> Whatever's in that photo must be to provide a helluva lot of water. My
> single tank is about 5 foot high, and it supplies water for the whole
> house and my lawn irrigation system.
What's the diameter? If it's small, you have a 5' straw.
> The tank has a bladder in it, and the bladder is surrounded by air.
> There's a valve at the top of the tank (just like the valve on a
> bicycle tire) that allows me to add air (to increase the pressure),
> but I've never had to.
>
> Whatever's in that photo must be to provide a helluva lot of water. My
> single tank is about 5 foot high, and it supplies water for the whole
> house and my lawn irrigation system.
On a recent trip I saw some things that could have been water towers
similar to the photo: tall tanks, of a uniform diameter. They may be
more common than I thought.
I assume that a raised water tower is needed for large quantities for a
large number of people. There are water tanks around here that aren't
raised, but they are on hills, higher than the surrounding houses.
--
charles
Tony Cooper
Jul 12, 2014, 6:56:39 PM7/12/14
to
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:44:12 -0700, Charles Bishop
>
>On a recent trip I saw some things that could have been water towers
>similar to the photo: tall tanks, of a uniform diameter. They may be
>more common than I thought.
>
>I assume that a raised water tower is needed for large quantities for a
>large number of people. There are water tanks around here that aren't
>raised, but they are on hills, higher than the surrounding houses.
--
<ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <4nrur9pk82p56nuqn...@4ax.com>,
> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:46:55 -0700, Charles Bishop
>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <lpl083$jl7$1...@news.albasani.net>,
>> > "DannyD." <Dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2932/14558061386_72ee0ae293.jpg
>> >
>> >Are those tanks under pressure?
>> >
>> >Where does the water in the tanks go?
>> >
>> >Where does the water in the yellow pipe come from?
>> >
>> >Is the device on top of the yellow pipe a hydrant, designed to draw off
>> >water with hoses, in case of a separate need, such as a fire?
>>
>> I don't know about the ones in the photo, but I have a very similar
>> tank with my well. Mine looks more like this:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/k397q98
>> http://www.supplyhouse.com/Amtrol-WX-252-WX-252-145S20-86-Gal-WELL-X-TROL-Well
>> -Tank-Stand?gclid=CjwKEAjw8_idBRCExfC15My3owwSJACSDX_WGevoLsi5oxP6dm3XK828ENvj
>> 7G7QQyNHJNQ0D7X4sRoCcCPw_wcB
>>
>> Water comes up from the well, goes into this tank, and goes from the
>> tank to my house. The well head is deep in the ground.
>
>The well head is where the power and pump is? Or is it an artesian well?
The well head is the electric pump down in the ground.
>In article <4nrur9pk82p56nuqn...@4ax.com>,
> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:46:55 -0700, Charles Bishop
>> <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <lpl083$jl7$1...@news.albasani.net>,
>> > "DannyD." <Dan...@is.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2932/14558061386_72ee0ae293.jpg
>> >
>> >Are those tanks under pressure?
>> >
>> >Where does the water in the tanks go?
>> >
>> >Where does the water in the yellow pipe come from?
>> >
>> >Is the device on top of the yellow pipe a hydrant, designed to draw off
>> >water with hoses, in case of a separate need, such as a fire?
>>
>> I don't know about the ones in the photo, but I have a very similar
>> tank with my well. Mine looks more like this:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/k397q98
>> http://www.supplyhouse.com/Amtrol-WX-252-WX-252-145S20-86-Gal-WELL-X-TROL-Well
>> -Tank-Stand?gclid=CjwKEAjw8_idBRCExfC15My3owwSJACSDX_WGevoLsi5oxP6dm3XK828ENvj
>> 7G7QQyNHJNQ0D7X4sRoCcCPw_wcB
>>
>> Water comes up from the well, goes into this tank, and goes from the
>> tank to my house. The well head is deep in the ground.
>
>The well head is where the power and pump is? Or is it an artesian well?
>>
>> The tank has a bladder in it, and the bladder is surrounded by air.
>> There's a valve at the top of the tank (just like the valve on a
>> bicycle tire) that allows me to add air (to increase the pressure),
>> but I've never had to.
>>
>> Whatever's in that photo must be to provide a helluva lot of water. My
>> single tank is about 5 foot high, and it supplies water for the whole
>> house and my lawn irrigation system.
>
>What's the diameter? If it's small, you have a 5' straw.
Maybe 2', 2.5'. Dunno what you mean by "straw" in this context.
>> The tank has a bladder in it, and the bladder is surrounded by air.
>> There's a valve at the top of the tank (just like the valve on a
>> bicycle tire) that allows me to add air (to increase the pressure),
>> but I've never had to.
>>
>> Whatever's in that photo must be to provide a helluva lot of water. My
>> single tank is about 5 foot high, and it supplies water for the whole
>> house and my lawn irrigation system.
>
>What's the diameter? If it's small, you have a 5' straw.
>
>On a recent trip I saw some things that could have been water towers
>similar to the photo: tall tanks, of a uniform diameter. They may be
>more common than I thought.
>
>I assume that a raised water tower is needed for large quantities for a
>large number of people. There are water tanks around here that aren't
>raised, but they are on hills, higher than the surrounding houses.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jul 12, 2014, 11:42:39 PM7/12/14
to
the way a great many of us front /&/ before nasals.
> and "La Grenouille" as "Lah Grahnwee", in old episodes of NCIS.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Jul 12, 2014, 11:43:45 PM7/12/14
to
--
Jerry Friedman
Mark Brader
Jul 13, 2014, 12:02:23 AM7/13/14
to
C.D. Bellemare:
>> NCIS.)
Jerry Friedman writes:
> Well, we're hardly likely to say "Zhan" /Z&n/, especially considering
> the way a great many of us front /&/ before nasals.
But in French, the -nne ending indicates an N sound, *not* a nasal.
"Jeanne" sounds like "Zhen", with a short E, not like French "Jean".
I was going to say that it was possible the character on the show had
decided to Americanize her name, but of course that doesn't make sense.
She would then presumably have pronounced it like English "Jean".
--
Mark Brader | "...the average homeowner should expect...
Toronto | meteor damage every hundred million years."
m...@vex.net | --Robert Nemiroff & Jerry Bonnell
My text in this article is in the public domain.
>> Haven't we heard that [A] is the default vowel in the US for "a" (and
>> even some other vowels) in foreign words? Not that I'm condoning the
>> error. (Consider "Jeanne Benoit" with "Zhahn"... in old episodes of
>> even some other vowels) in foreign words? Not that I'm condoning the
>> NCIS.)
Jerry Friedman writes:
> Well, we're hardly likely to say "Zhan" /Z&n/, especially considering
> the way a great many of us front /&/ before nasals.
"Jeanne" sounds like "Zhen", with a short E, not like French "Jean".
I was going to say that it was possible the character on the show had
decided to Americanize her name, but of course that doesn't make sense.
She would then presumably have pronounced it like English "Jean".
--
Mark Brader | "...the average homeowner should expect...
Toronto | meteor damage every hundred million years."
m...@vex.net | --Robert Nemiroff & Jerry Bonnell
My text in this article is in the public domain.
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