Pronunciation of Houghton

[Sergei A. Koval]

Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel in
the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is pronounced
in Houston?

Thank you in advance,
Sergei Koval

[Rudolf Schwarzkopf-Zskai]

Sergei A. Koval asked:

: Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel in

: the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is
pronounced
: in Houston?

This might depend on the particular family and their traditions. A whole
range of possibilities come to mind.
The first to my mind is Horton..... or Hawton.... (I really must learn
that special spelling you have on this group).
Then there's Hutton and Huffton and Hoffton.
And perhaps Howton.
Or Hooton...... or Hyooton.
(Actually, I have to confess to ignorance as to whether Houston is
pronounced Hooston or Hyooston.)

--
Rudolf
Nottingham UK
rud...@ntlworld.com
www.lizardnet.freeserve.co.uk

[Olivers]

Rudolf Schwarzkopf-Zskai wrote:
>
> Sergei A. Koval asked:
>
> : Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel in
> : the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is
> pronounced
> : in Houston?
>
> This might depend on the particular family and their traditions. A whole
> range of possibilities come to mind.
> The first to my mind is Horton..... or Hawton.... (I really must learn
> that special spelling you have on this group).
> Then there's Hutton and Huffton and Hoffton.
> And perhaps Howton.
> Or Hooton...... or Hyooton.
> (Actually, I have to confess to ignorance as to whether Houston is
> pronounced Hooston or Hyooston.)
>

Houston, in USEnglish, Hews-ton, in Lothian, House-ton.

Houghton, by individual or local option, everything from How-ton to
Huff-ton (with the How-ton seeming to be most common in the US)

[Padraig Breathnach]

Sergei A. Koval wrote in message <8t4ggu$990$1...@news.sovam.com>...

>Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel in
>the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is
pronounced
>in Houston?
>

A lot depends on how you pronounce "Houston".

In Ireland, the vowel sounds in the two words are quite different.
"Houghton" is "HOW-ton"; "Houston" is "HOOS-ton".

PB

[Matti Lamprhey]

"Rudolf Schwarzkopf-Zskai" <ta...@face.value> wrote...
> Sergei A. Koval asked:
>
> : Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel

in
> : the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is
> : pronounced in Houston?
>

> This might depend on the particular family and their traditions. A whole
> range of possibilities come to mind.
> The first to my mind is Horton..... or Hawton.... (I really must learn
> that special spelling you have on this group).
> Then there's Hutton and Huffton and Hoffton.
> And perhaps Howton.
> Or Hooton...... or Hyooton.

Also "Hoe-ton", which I believe is how the ancient water-mill near
Huntingdon is pronounced.

Matti

[Bob Cunningham]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:17:04 +0300, "Sergei A. Koval"
<sko...@online.ru> said:

>Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel in
>the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is pronounced
>in Houston?

>Thank you in advance,
>Sergei Koval

Houghton, Henry Oscar
DATES: 1823–1895
SYLLABICATION: Hough·ton
PRONUNCIATION: ['hoUtn-]
American publisher who founded (1852) the printing office that became
the Houghton Mifflin Company.

In ad hoc terms, the first syllable is pronounced to rhyme with
'coat', and the last syllable is a syllabic 'n'.

Other people named Houghton may choose to pronounce it differently.

[Spehro Pefhany]

The renowned Olivers <ol...@calpha.com> wrote:

> Houston, in USEnglish, Hews-ton, in Lothian, House-ton.

In NYC, Houston St. is pronounced How-stun (it be the "Ho" in SoHo).

Best regards,
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Contributions invited->The AVR-gcc FAQ is at: http://www.BlueCollarLinux.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

[N.Mitchum]

Sergei A. Koval wrote:
-----

> Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel in
> the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is pronounced
> in Houston?

>.....

I can neither confirm nor deny it. First, there are at least
three different pronunciations of "Houston" (Hyoo-st'n, Hoo-st'n,
How-stn'). Secondly, there must be more than one pronunciation of
"Houghton." (I can imagine Hooten, Howten, Hufften, and more.)
The only one I know for sure is in the publisher's name Houghton
Mifflin, and that's pronounced "Ho-t'n" (or HOE-tun).

(Say, how *do* they pronounce Houghton in Houston?)

----NM

[R. Fontana]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Sergei A. Koval wrote:

> Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel in
> the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is pronounced
> in Houston?

There are at least two American pronunciations of "Houston":
(1) The large city in Texas is typically /hjust@n/
(2) Houston Street in Manhattan (New York city) is /haUst@n/

The publishing company Houghton Mifflin has Houghton as /hoUt@n/ (like
"Hoe"). I used to think it was /haUt@n/ (like "How") when I was a child
and even today I have to remind myself to say /hoUt@n/. It must be that,
in applying ordinary orthographo-pronunciation rules, I determined that
"Hough" should be like "How".

[R. Fontana]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

> The renowned Olivers <ol...@calpha.com> wrote:
>
> > Houston, in USEnglish, Hews-ton, in Lothian, House-ton.
>
> In NYC, Houston St. is pronounced How-stun (it be the "Ho" in SoHo).

Yes. But in Lothian wouldn't "house" itself have a vowel that many of us
would associate with /u/, which is contained within the /ju/ of Texas
Houston?

--
Richard

[Peter Prictoe]

"N.Mitchum" <aj...@lafn.org> wrote in message news:39F5F7...@lafn.org...

> Sergei A. Koval wrote:
> -----

> > Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel
in
> > the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is
pronounced
> > in Houston?

> >.....
PP All English with the name of Houghton that I have met pronounced it
Howton
The next village to my own that is now a part of Barnsley is Great Houghton
and beyond it is Little Houghton-both pronounced as the family name quoted.

Peter P

Barnsley South Yorks UK

[Bob Cunningham]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:01:16 -0400, "R. Fontana" <rf...@is9.nyu.edu>
said:

>On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Sergei A. Koval wrote:

>> Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel in
>> the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is pronounced
>> in Houston?

>There are at least two American pronunciations of "Houston":

>(1) The large city in Texas is typically /hjust@n/
>(2) Houston Street in Manhattan (New York city) is /haUst@n/

>The publishing company Houghton Mifflin has Houghton as /hoUt@n/ (like
>"Hoe"). I used to think it was /haUt@n/ (like "How") when I was a child
>and even today I have to remind myself to say /hoUt@n/. It must be that,
>in applying ordinary orthographo-pronunciation rules, I determined that
>"Hough" should be like "How".

In the mountains directly east of Burbank, California -- which town
was my home for many years, there's a picnic area called Stough Park.
I used to find it amusing to call it Stuff Park, rhyming 'Stough' with
'rough'.

I suppose I also could have called it Stew Park, rhyming 'Stough' with
'through', but many people would say [stju] ('styoo') for 'stew',
instead of saying [stu:] ('stoo'), as I do.

I think the approved pronunciation was [staU] (rhymes with 'how'), but
it may have been [stoU] (rhymes with 'low'). I was never sure.

Then there are those who pronounce 'through' [TrVf] ('thruff'), but
with a different meaning from the usual ('A large slab of stone etc.
laid on a tomb; a flat gravestone, spec. one resting on feet. ME.' --
NSOED). Other pronunciations for that meaning are [TrVx] ('thruch'
with the 'ch' as in Scottish 'loch') and [TrUf] ('throof' with the
'oo' as in 'hood').

I suppose there's bound to be someone in this thread who will list
every pronunciation of 'ough' they can think of, so I guess I might as
well do it (I've already mentioned the three pronunciations of the
Scottish and Northern 'through' that refers to a grave slab):

The columns are
1. an example word,
2. the NSOED pronunciation,
3. the ASCII IPA equivalent to the NSOED pronunciation,
4. an ad hoc example of a similar pronunciation

borough /"bVr<schwa>/ ['bVr@] like 'o' in 'lemon'
bough /baU/ [baU] rhymes with 'how'
cough /kQf/ [kA.f] rhymes with 'off'
hiccough /"hIkVp/ ['hIkVp] rhymes with 'cup'
lough /lQk, lQx/ [lA.k],[lA.x] rhymes with 'lock' or 'Bach'
rough /rVf/ [rVf] same as 'ruff'
though /D<schwa>U/ [D@U] rhymes with 'low'
through /Tru:/ [Tru:] rhymes with 'true'

[Garry J. Vass]

Peter Prictoe <rin...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5koJ5.3480$MK5.3...@news1.cableinet.net...

>
> > >.....
> PP All English with the name of Houghton that I have met pronounced it
> Howton
> The next village to my own that is now a part of Barnsley is Great
Houghton
> and beyond it is Little Houghton-both pronounced as the family name
quoted.
>

Of course the issue here is how does a Yorkshireman's phonetic rendering of
"Howton" convey to LeftPondian ears and etc etc. And it gets very difficult
because the characters cannot convey the pronunciation.

Like saying that "sender" is pronounced such that it rhymes with both
"blender" and "agenda". Which it does here, but helps little over there.

The Houghtons I know (from the Lake District) also pronounce it "Howton",
but for LeftPondian ears, I would render it phonetically as "Hoehwt'n".

I have also noted a distinct tendency for Welsh and SW English speakers to
slip a very soft 'r' sound in just before the 'w'. But not completely sure
what that's about.

Photos of Steve & Penny Houghton, by the way, are at
http://www.londonelegance.com/penny

Kind regards,
GJV
--
AUE: http://www.alt-usage-english.org
UCLE: http://www.ucle.org

[Estraven]

"Bob Cunningham" <spa...@alt-usage-english.org> wrote:
<snip>

> I suppose there's bound to be someone in this thread who will list
> every pronunciation of 'ough' they can think of, so I guess I might as
> well do it (I've already mentioned the three pronunciations of the
> Scottish and Northern 'through' that refers to a grave slab):
>
> The columns are
> 1. an example word,
> 2. the NSOED pronunciation,
> 3. the ASCII IPA equivalent to the NSOED pronunciation,
> 4. an ad hoc example of a similar pronunciation
>
> borough /"bVr<schwa>/ ['bVr@] like 'o' in 'lemon'

Interesting. I pronounce this word [bRoU], homophonous with "burrow".

<snip>

[stuffer_...@my-deja.com]

In article <8t4ggu$990$1...@news.sovam.com>,

"Sergei A. Koval" <sko...@online.ru> wrote:
> Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first
vowel in
> the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is
pronounced
> in Houston?
>

> Thank you in advance,
> Sergei Koval
>
>

It seems to depend upon which region or country you come from. My
family name is Houghton and I grew up in the North West of England. My
family always pronounce it 'Horton' or 'H-aw-tun' (as in 'whore' name
for lady of the night, and tonne measurement of weight) not 'How-tun'
which seems more common elsewhere in the UK. There is a small town in
Lancashire called West Houghton and I believe the locals use my
pronounciation there.

In the Northamptonshire region of England there are many villages with
'Houghton' in them and the locals all pronounce it 'Ho - tun' or 'Hoe -
ton' i.e slightly shorter first syllable.

It looks like there is no 'one' answer, I hope that helps.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

[Bob Cunningham]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 02:04:55 -0700, "Estraven" <estr...@attcanada.ca>
said:

>"Bob Cunningham" <spa...@alt-usage-english.org> wrote:

[ . . . ]

>> The columns are
>> 1. an example word,
>> 2. the NSOED pronunciation,
>> 3. the ASCII IPA equivalent to the NSOED pronunciation,
>> 4. an ad hoc example of a similar pronunciation

>> borough /"bVr<schwa>/ ['bVr@] like 'o' in 'lemon'

>Interesting. I pronounce this word [bRoU], homophonous with "burrow".

So do I.

I gave the British pronunciations because I can copy and paste
pronunciations from NSOED and have them come out in a version of ASCII
IPA.

[raymond...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 24 October 2000 08:00:00 UTC+1, Sergei A. Koval wrote:
> Could anyone please confirm or reject my assuption that the first vowel in
> the family name "Houghton" is pronounced in the same way as it is pronounced
> in Houston?
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Sergei Koval

My surname is Houghton and it is pronounced "Hooton". This is true for my family but I know that most of the other pronunciations mentioned in this thread are used for families with the name "Houghton".
Sorry but that's just how it is.

[Anders D. Nygaard]

On 06-07-2015 21:22, Lewis wrote:
> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone tells you how
> their name is pronounced.

Featherstonehaugh, anybody?

> Crystal?
>
> No, it's kris-TALL
>
> Stephanie?
>
> No, it's STEPH-ah-nee

What else would it be?

/Anders, Denmark

[Ross]

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 10:54:01 AM UTC+12, Lewis wrote:
> In message <559afab2$0$301$1472...@news.sunsite.dk>

> steph-AH-nee (which I was I meant to write above).
>

And what about Princess Eugenie (YOO-zha-nee)? (Not that I've ever
known anyone else by that name to compare her with, but I think
that syllable would have come third in my choices)

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/07/15 04:32, raymond...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 October 2000 08:00:00 UTC+1, Sergei A. Koval wrote:

Strangely, I have no memory of this 15-year-old thread. That must have
been when I was drinking heavily.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Whiskers]

On 2015-07-06, Anders D. Nygaard <news2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06-07-2015 21:22, Lewis wrote:
>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone tells you how
>> their name is pronounced.

Sometimes not even then.

> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?

Beware Cholmondleigh.

>> Crystal?
>>
>> No, it's kris-TALL
>>
>> Stephanie?
>>
>> No, it's STEPH-ah-nee
>
> What else would it be?

Steff ANNIE?

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Steve Hayes]

On 10 Jul 2015 20:58:01 GMT, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
wrote:

>On 2015-07-06, Anders D. Nygaard <news2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 06-07-2015 21:22, Lewis wrote:
>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone tells you how
>>> their name is pronounced.
>
>Sometimes not even then.
>
>> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
>

And Strachan.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Janet]

In article <4i75qalj08jppenpr...@4ax.com>,
haye...@telkomsa.net says...

>
> On 10 Jul 2015 20:58:01 GMT, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 2015-07-06, Anders D. Nygaard <news2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 06-07-2015 21:22, Lewis wrote:
> >>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone tells you how
> >>> their name is pronounced.
> >
> >Sometimes not even then.
> >
> >> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
> >
>
> And Strachan.

and Geoghegan, St.John, Mainwaring, Beauchamp, Marjoribanks...

Janet

[Jack Campin]

>>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone
>>>> tells you how their name is pronounced.
>> Sometimes not even then.
>>> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
> And Strachan.

I've known a few people called Strachan and they all pronounced the
name in the same way - STRA[x]-un, the first vowel as in "bat". Is
there another pronunciation?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[James Hogg]

Jack Campin wrote:
>>>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone
>>>>> tells you how their name is pronounced.
>>> Sometimes not even then.
>>>> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
>> And Strachan.
>
> I've known a few people called Strachan and they all pronounced the
> name in the same way - STRA[x]-un, the first vowel as in "bat". Is
> there another pronunciation?

Yes. Strawn.

--
James

[Janet]

In article <bogus-627FB5....@four.schnuerpel.eu>,
bo...@purr.demon.co.uk says...

>
> >>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone
> >>>> tells you how their name is pronounced.
> >> Sometimes not even then.
> >>> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
> > And Strachan.
>
> I've known a few people called Strachan and they all pronounced the
> name in the same way - STRA[x]-un, the first vowel as in "bat". Is
> there another pronunciation?

I've only heard "Strawn", (rhymes with brawn), as in Strachan village
in Aberdeenshire.

Janet.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

And the placename Belvoir.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 18:21:49 +0100, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>>>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone
>>>>> tells you how their name is pronounced.
>>> Sometimes not even then.
>>>> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
>> And Strachan.
>
>I've known a few people called Strachan and they all pronounced the
>name in the same way - STRA[x]-un, the first vowel as in "bat". Is
>there another pronunciation?
>

I came across a monosyllabic version of Strachan. It sounded like
Strawn, "straw" with an "n" on the end.

Aha!

That is the pronuciation of the village in Aberdeenshire:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strachan,_Aberdeenshire

Strachan (pronounced 'Strawn'[1]) is a village in Aberdeenshire,
Scotland that lies along the Water of Feugh, a tributary of the
River Dee, Aberdeenshire, a few miles southwest of Banchory.

[1]
http://www.clanstrachan.org/history/pronunciations/

Pronunciation of Strachan and Etymology
By Jim Strachan, MBA, FSA Scot
Published 22 Dec 2013
Contributions from: Dr. Philip Smith, PhD Linguistics, and learned
Gaelic speaker.

The "accurate" pronunciation of the surname of STRACHAN is highly
controversial, both within and outwith the family.

Many Scots (albeit not all) contend that /stra-khan/ is the proper
pronunciation (using a gutteral for the 'ch'); while many of the
Diaspora (albeit not all) pronounce the surname /strawn/ and insist
this is the correct or original pronunciation.

The simple answer is that both versions are correct and proper
pronunciations for the spelling of STRACHAN and are based on
different languages. Further, there is absolutely no evidence to
suggest one was original.

/strawn/ is the correct pronunciation for the spelling of STRACHAN
in Gaelic, where the 'ch' is silent. It is more popularly used by
families who generally emigrated from Scotland prior to about 1850.

/Strak-han/ is the correct pronunciation for the spelling of
STRACHAN in the Anglicized Scots language, where the 'ch' is
pronounced similar to the word 'loch' or 'Bach'. It is more
popularly found in Scotland.

More Detailed Explanation

<much, much, more information>

[Ross]

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 5:22:17 AM UTC+12, Jack Campin wrote:
> >>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone
> >>>> tells you how their name is pronounced.
> >> Sometimes not even then.
> >>> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
> > And Strachan.
>
> I've known a few people called Strachan and they all pronounced the
> name in the same way - STRA[x]-un, the first vowel as in "bat". Is
> there another pronunciation?

There was a politician in British Columbia in my youth named Robert Strachan.
This was far from Scotland; seldom was a [x] to be xeard. His name was
pronounced /str&k@n/ (rhymes with bracken).

[Robert Bannister]

I can't say I've ever come across a Geoghegan, but the others are
pronounced the way they are spelt in this country. The name owners soon
get used to it or else change the spelling to something more appropriate.

--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 7:53:11 PM UTC-4, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 13/07/2015 1:20 am, Janet wrote:

> > and Geoghegan, St.John, Mainwaring, Beauchamp, Marjoribanks...
>

> I can't say I've ever come across a Geoghegan, but the others are
> pronounced the way they are spelt in this country. The name owners soon
> get used to it or else change the spelling to something more appropriate.

We had one in my school -- a year ahead of me, maybe -- go-HE-g@n.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 18:20:16 +0100, Janet <nob...@home.org> wrote:

What is the preferred pronunciation of Geoghegan?

[Steve Hayes]

There was once a Brit politician called Norman Sinjin Stevas, who got
enough media exposure that people got to know how his name was
pronounced.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 19:56:34 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:

That, and also as Jack said, but with the first vowel as in "about".

[Ross]

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 1:56:03 PM UTC+12, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 18:20:16 +0100, Janet <nob...@home.org> wrote:
>
> >In article <4i75qalj08jppenpr...@4ax.com>,
> >haye...@telkomsa.net says...
> >>
> >> On 10 Jul 2015 20:58:01 GMT, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 2015-07-06, Anders D. Nygaard <news2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> On 06-07-2015 21:22, Lewis wrote:
> >> >>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone tells you how
> >> >>> their name is pronounced.
> >> >
> >> >Sometimes not even then.
> >> >
> >> >> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
> >> >
> >>
> >> And Strachan.
> >
> > and Geoghegan, St.John, Mainwaring, Beauchamp, Marjoribanks...
>
> What is the preferred pronunciation of Geoghegan?

The only one I've ever known was GAY-g'n. He was Irish.
It was my first encounter with the Irish spelling rule:
H means "ignore preceding consonant".

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 02:45:07 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <i276qata9vclveiee...@4ax.com>

> Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 07:53:04 +0800, Robert Bannister
>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>>>On 13/07/2015 1:20 am, Janet wrote:
>>>> In article <4i75qalj08jppenpr...@4ax.com>,
>>>> haye...@telkomsa.net says...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10 Jul 2015 20:58:01 GMT, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-07-06, Anders D. Nygaard <news2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 06-07-2015 21:22, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone tells you how
>>>>>>>> their name is pronounced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sometimes not even then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And Strachan.
>>>>
>>>> and Geoghegan, St.John, Mainwaring, Beauchamp, Marjoribanks...
>>>>
>>>> Janet
>>>>
>>>I can't say I've ever come across a Geoghegan, but the others are
>>>pronounced the way they are spelt in this country. The name owners soon
>>>get used to it or else change the spelling to something more appropriate.
>
>> There was once a Brit politician called Norman Sinjin Stevas, who got
>> enough media exposure that people got to know how his name was
>> pronounced.
>

>Isn't "Sinjin" properly spelt "St John"?

Yes, I was merely indicating that "St John", as a personal name, is
properly pronounced "Sinjin".

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 11:03:05 PM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 02:45:07 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >In message <i276qata9vclveiee...@4ax.com>
> > Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

> >> There was once a Brit politician called Norman Sinjin Stevas, who got
> >> enough media exposure that people got to know how his name was
> >> pronounced.
> >
> >Isn't "Sinjin" properly spelt "St John"?
>
> Yes, I was merely indicating that "St John", as a personal name, is
> properly pronounced "Sinjin".

By omitting the <St John>?

[Peter Moylan]

Not quite. It means "lenite preceding consonant". Often by aspiration,
so that "ch" becomes [x] and "mh" becomes a sort of bilabial [w] or [v].
Slender "gh" is silent at the end of a word, and broad "gh" can give the
impression of being silent when it combines with a preceding "o" or "a"
to produce a diphthong.

Irish spelling is simple once you understand it. Most of the vowels are
silent, and a few of the consonants are also silent. If a rural Irish
person appears to be untalkative, it's because of all those silent letters.

[Ross]

At a later stage of my life, I once tried to work out the rules by
going through the extensive vocabulary in "Teach Yourself Irish",
where they helpfully give an IPA transcription of every word. (I found
the book's attempt to expound the rules systematically quite useless.)
I'll admit there is system to it, but "simple"? No. I found so many
exceptions and inexplicable results that I gave up after a while.
And this was the "reformed" orthography (1948?)!

[Steve Hayes]

>> and Geoghegan, St.John, Mainwaring, Beauchamp, Marjoribanks...

>> ^^^^^^^
>> Janet

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 07:53:04 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

The Irish Geoghegans I've met were pronounced "Gaygan". with the second
"a" usually indistinct.

There are two examples here. The first has a touch of "ghe" between
"Gay" and "gan". The second is as I describe above.
http://www.forvo.com/word/m%C3%A1ire_geoghegan-quinn/#en

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

I once suggested to an Irish friend a rule of thumb for the
pronunciation of vowels in Irish words: "If you see a string of two or
three vowels they should sound like one of the three or two vowels not
in the string".

For example, the title of the Irish Prime Minister is "Taoiseach". An
acceptable pronunciation, certainly from an outsider, is "Teeshuck".

My Irish friend was not amused.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/british/taoiseach

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoiseach

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Jul-13 19:52, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

> I once suggested to an Irish friend a rule of thumb for the
> pronunciation of vowels in Irish words: "If you see a string of two or
> three vowels they should sound like one of the three or two vowels not
> in the string".
>
> For example, the title of the Irish Prime Minister is "Taoiseach". An
> acceptable pronunciation, certainly from an outsider, is "Teeshuck".
>
> My Irish friend was not amused.

If you see a string of vowels, most of them are silent, being there to
indicate whether a consonant is broad or slender. In the case of
Taoiseach, the "i" and "e" are not pronounced, being present only to
show that the "s" is pronounced [S]. The pronunciation of a consonant
depends on the adjacent vowels, and in most cases that means "adjacent
on both sides". That is, you can't normally have an e or i on one side,
and an a, o, or u on the other side. That would cause a broad/slender
conflict, and the word might explode.

Then it's just a matter of knowing that "ao" is pronounced [i] in some
but not all dialects.

[Janet]

In article <d0gcv3...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@clubtelco.com
says...

>
> On 13/07/2015 1:20 am, Janet wrote:
> > In article <4i75qalj08jppenpr...@4ax.com>,
> > haye...@telkomsa.net says...
> >>
> >> On 10 Jul 2015 20:58:01 GMT, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2015-07-06, Anders D. Nygaard <news2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 06-07-2015 21:22, Lewis wrote:
> >>>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone tells you how
> >>>>> their name is pronounced.
> >>>
> >>> Sometimes not even then.
> >>>
> >>>> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
> >>>
> >>
> >> And Strachan.
> >
> > and Geoghegan, St.John, Mainwaring, Beauchamp, Marjoribanks...
> >
> > Janet
> >
> I can't say I've ever come across a Geoghegan,

Gaygan.

but the others are
> pronounced the way they are spelt in this country. The name owners soon
> get used to it or else change the spelling to something more appropriate.

So how do people in Australia pronounce words spelled Beauchamp and
St?

Janet

[Jack Campin]

>>>>>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone
>>>>>>> tells you how their name is pronounced.

>>> Geoghegan, St.John, Mainwaring, Beauchamp, Marjoribanks...

> So how do people in Australia pronounce words spelled Beauchamp
> and St?

Dunno about Australia, but the New Zealand-born pianist Richard
Beauchamp pronounces his name "Beecham".

I've never heard anyone say "Mainwaring" and would have guessed
you say it exactly as written. What's the trick?

The "Sinjon" thing has always struck me as weird and I'd never
say the name that way unless somebody personally insisted on it.
Similarly, I'm not about to guess with "St Clair" - if you want
it pronounced "Sinclair" just spell it that way, as most people
with the name do.

[Mike Barnes]

Jack Campin wrote:
> I've never heard anyone say "Mainwaring" and would have guessed
> you say it exactly as written. What's the trick?

MANN-ering.

Familiar to most Brits as the name of a (fittingly pompous) character in
the much-loved TV comedy series "Dad's Army".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-LQThcM664 3:10

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[Janet]

In article <bogus-23E359....@four.schnuerpel.eu>,
bo...@purr.demon.co.uk says...

>
> >>>>>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone
> >>>>>>> tells you how their name is pronounced.
> >>> Geoghegan, St.John, Mainwaring, Beauchamp, Marjoribanks...
> > So how do people in Australia pronounce words spelled Beauchamp
> > and St?
>
> Dunno about Australia, but the New Zealand-born pianist Richard
> Beauchamp pronounces his name "Beecham".
>
> I've never heard anyone say "Mainwaring" and would have guessed
> you say it exactly as written. What's the trick?

Mannaring. As in Captain Mainwaring of Dad's Army.

Janet

[R H Draney]

Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:bogus-23E359....@four.schnuerpel.eu:

>>>>>>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone
>>>>>>>> tells you how their name is pronounced.
>>>> Geoghegan, St.John, Mainwaring, Beauchamp, Marjoribanks...
>> So how do people in Australia pronounce words spelled Beauchamp
>> and St?
>
> Dunno about Australia, but the New Zealand-born pianist Richard
> Beauchamp pronounces his name "Beecham".
>
> I've never heard anyone say "Mainwaring" and would have guessed
> you say it exactly as written. What's the trick?
>
> The "Sinjon" thing has always struck me as weird and I'd never
> say the name that way unless somebody personally insisted on it.
> Similarly, I'm not about to guess with "St Clair" - if you want
> it pronounced "Sinclair" just spell it that way, as most people
> with the name do.

A disc jockey I otherwise like listening to insists on saying Bruce
Cockburn's name as it looks, to sound like an unfortunate injury....

Have we done "Taliaferro" (pronounced "Tolliver") yet?...r

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Jul-14 00:44, Janet wrote:
> In article <d0gcv3...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@clubtelco.com
> says...

>> but the others are
>> pronounced the way they are spelt in this country. The name owners soon
>> get used to it or else change the spelling to something more appropriate.
>
> So how do people in Australia pronounce words spelled Beauchamp and
> St?

In every case I can think of, the St is pronounced "Saint". Jack
mentioned a New Zealander called Beauchamp, but I was always under the
impression that he spelt his name Beecham. If I saw the French spelling
then I would automatically use a French pronunciation.

Mind you, New Zealand names can be tricky, especially place names. It
can take several attempts to pronounce a place name like Wherthefukarwenau.

We have immigrants from many countries here, so when we see a
foreign-looking name we do what we can to approximate what we think the
foreign pronunciation is. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. It
fails, of course, when someone with a French-looking name turns out to
be from England.

We do better on Irish names, just because so many of us have Irish ancestry.

The only Mainwaring I've ever encountered was the one in Dad's Army, so
I thought it was a joke name.

[Robert Bannister]

What a pity. I was hoping for "jog again".

[Robert Bannister]

On 13/07/2015 10:04 am, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 07:53:04 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>> On 13/07/2015 1:20 am, Janet wrote:
>>> In article <4i75qalj08jppenpr...@4ax.com>,
>>> haye...@telkomsa.net says...
>>>>
>>>> On 10 Jul 2015 20:58:01 GMT, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-07-06, Anders D. Nygaard <news2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 06-07-2015 21:22, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>> Names are tricky, and you're never 100% sure until someone tells you how
>>>>>>> their name is pronounced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes not even then.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Featherstonehaugh, anybody?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And Strachan.
>>>
>>> and Geoghegan, St.John, Mainwaring, Beauchamp, Marjoribanks...
>>>
>>> Janet
>>>
>> I can't say I've ever come across a Geoghegan, but the others are
>> pronounced the way they are spelt in this country. The name owners soon
>> get used to it or else change the spelling to something more appropriate.
>
> There was once a Brit politician called Norman Sinjin Stevas, who got
> enough media exposure that people got to know how his name was
> pronounced.
>
>

But spellings like Sinjin, Sinjun or Sinclair, Cinmarie are at least as
common as the St. variety.

[Robert Bannister]

I have only known two Beauchamps here. One was the old way: bee-cham,
the other bow (as in arrow) cham. I have yet to meet an Australian
saint, but in London I used to teach at Sir Walter St John's School,
which was in English fashion "Sinjun".

[Ross]

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:26:40 PM UTC+12, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2015-Jul-14 00:44, Janet wrote:
> > In article <d0gcv3...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@clubtelco.com
> > says...
>
> >> but the others are
> >> pronounced the way they are spelt in this country. The name owners soon
> >> get used to it or else change the spelling to something more appropriate.
> >
> > So how do people in Australia pronounce words spelled Beauchamp and
> > St?
>
> In every case I can think of, the St is pronounced "Saint". Jack
> mentioned a New Zealander called Beauchamp, but I was always under the
> impression that he spelt his name Beecham.

Nope, google him and see.
A more famous New Zealander, the writer Katherine Mansfield was born
K.M.Beauchamp, and I have always understood that it was pronounced
"Beecham". Don't know if she was related to the pianist.

[Peter Moylan]

Oh, I don't doubt the original assertion. It's just that I assume
Beecham if I hear the name without seeing it written down.

[Dr Nick]

He needs to be more careful with that rocket launcher.

[Steve Hayes]

You must have missed the joys of Enid Blyton in your youth.

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Jul-14 16:14, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:26:35 +1000, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>> The only Mainwaring I've ever encountered was the one in Dad's Army, so
>> I thought it was a joke name.
>
> You must have missed the joys of Enid Blyton in your youth.

I remember Noddy's little red car, and "Noddy felt a little queer", and
Bigears, and Mr Plod the policeman. From a later age I remember the
Secret Seven and the Famous Five, but no Mainwaring. Must be selective
memory.

[Janet]

In article <d0j54a...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@clubtelco.com
says...

I've never seen Sinjun/jin or Cinmarie, but Sinclair is common here in
Scotland.

Janet.

[GordonD]

On 14/07/2015 07:29, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2015-Jul-14 16:14, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:26:35 +1000, Peter Moylan
>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> The only Mainwaring I've ever encountered was the one in Dad's Army, so
>>> I thought it was a joke name.
>>
>> You must have missed the joys of Enid Blyton in your youth.
>
> I remember Noddy's little red car, and "Noddy felt a little queer", and
> Bigears, and Mr Plod the policeman. From a later age I remember the
> Secret Seven and the Famous Five, but no Mainwaring. Must be selective
> memory.
>

I think Steve is talking about the Adventure series, with two sets of
siblings, one called "Mannering". But IIRC it was spelt that way.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 2:29:08 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2015-Jul-14 16:14, Steve Hayes wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:26:35 +1000, Peter Moylan
> > <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> The only Mainwaring I've ever encountered was the one in Dad's Army, so
> >> I thought it was a joke name.
> >
> > You must have missed the joys of Enid Blyton in your youth.
>
> I remember Noddy's little red car, and "Noddy felt a little queer", and

How did the little queer feel about being felt?

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 16:29:03 +1000, Peter Moylan

<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 2015-Jul-14 16:14, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:26:35 +1000, Peter Moylan
>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> The only Mainwaring I've ever encountered was the one in Dad's Army, so
>>> I thought it was a joke name.
>>
>> You must have missed the joys of Enid Blyton in your youth.
>
>I remember Noddy's little red car, and "Noddy felt a little queer", and
>Bigears, and Mr Plod the policeman. From a later age I remember the
>Secret Seven and the Famous Five, but no Mainwaring. Must be selective
>memory.

The first Enid Bllyton book I recall reading was "The mountain of
adventure" which had two children named Mainwaring, and their mother.
It was part of a series featuring the same characters.

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 09:18:51 +0100, GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

Perhaps it was, it's a long time since I read them.