What does "What happens in vegas stays in vegas" imply?
liu
can do crazy things and forgetting everything after leaving Las Vegas?
Here is one scene from Cage's movie "Next,"
Cage asked an older man about the young lady sitting beside him "This
young lady must be your daughter, then." The old man replied, "No, she
is my wife." Cage replied "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
What does he imply? he does not think she is his real wife? a
sarcastic way of saying his wife is too young for him? .... or what?
Your input is appreciated,
Liu
Don Phillipson
news:1183353335.5...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Here is one scene from Cage's movie "Next,"
> Cage asked an older man about the young lady sitting beside him "This
> young lady must be your daughter, then." The old man replied, "No, she
> is my wife." Cage replied "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
> What does he imply? he does not think she is his real wife? a
> sarcastic way of saying his wife is too young for him? .... or what?
The phrase is by now a standard item of American
vernacular. It means in this context:
1. Cage believes the young girl is a prostitute and
the old man is lying (when he says she is his wife).
2. This is OK because Las Vegas is exempt from
general rules of morality and behavior.
The history of no. 2 is that gambling used to be generally
illegal in all US states (except for wagering on horse
races when personally at the racetrack) until the 1940s
when Nevada permitted betting and gambling at certain
resort hotels (constructed to launder the profits of
organized crime.) Another legal change pioneered
in the USA by Nevada was state-inspected brothels,
cf. point no. 2 above.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
John Kane
wrote:
> "liu" <spamfree...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1183353335.5...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Here is one scene from Cage's movie "Next,"
> > Cage asked an older man about the young lady sitting beside him "This
> > young lady must be your daughter, then." The old man replied, "No, she
> > is my wife." Cage replied "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
> > What does he imply? he does not think she is his real wife? a
> > sarcastic way of saying his wife is too young for him? .... or what?
>
> The phrase is by now a standard item of American
> vernacular.
Is it that common? I don't think I've ever heard it though it is
perfectly obvious what is meant. But then I have never heard of Cage
or a movie called Next either.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
Donna Richoux
> On Jul 2, 6:33 am, "Don Phillipson" <d.phillipsonSPAMBL...@ncf.ca>
> wrote:
[snip discussion of "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."]
> > The phrase is by now a standard item of American
> > vernacular.
>
> Is it that common? I don't think I've ever heard it though it is
> perfectly obvious what is meant. But then I have never heard of Cage
> or a movie called Next either.
>
Well, it's common -- Google says:
157,000 for "happens in vegas stays in vegas"
But I don't think it's very old. A bit of hunting in a dated archive
would quite likely show a year of origin.... Google Groups has nothing
before Nov. 1, 2000:
I'm not sure I can share with you the details
as I was informed that "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
And nothing more until 2003, which suggests that's the year a local
saying hit the mainstream.
It might be modeled after some similar saying...
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Nick Spalding
on Mon, 2 Jul 2007 06:33:34 -0400:
> "liu" <spamf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1183353335.5...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Here is one scene from Cage's movie "Next,"
> > Cage asked an older man about the young lady sitting beside him "This
> > young lady must be your daughter, then." The old man replied, "No, she
> > is my wife." Cage replied "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
> > What does he imply? he does not think she is his real wife? a
> > sarcastic way of saying his wife is too young for him? .... or what?
>
> The phrase is by now a standard item of American
> vernacular. It means in this context:
> 1. Cage believes the young girl is a prostitute and
> the old man is lying (when he says she is his wife).
> 2. This is OK because Las Vegas is exempt from
> general rules of morality and behavior.
And nobody is going to tell tales when you get home. Sort of like the
sailor's "The first turn of the screw pays all debts".
> The history of no. 2 is that gambling used to be generally
> illegal in all US states (except for wagering on horse
> races when personally at the racetrack) until the 1940s
> when Nevada permitted betting and gambling at certain
> resort hotels (constructed to launder the profits of
> organized crime.) Another legal change pioneered
> in the USA by Nevada was state-inspected brothels,
> cf. point no. 2 above.
--
Nick Spalding
tinwhistler
[snip]
> And nothing more until 2003, which suggests that's the year a local
> saying hit the mainstream.
>
> It might be modeled after some similar saying...
[snip]
I was thinking it may have had a Cuban derivation, but some
researching indicates otherwise -- only a couple of hits for "What
happens in Havana, stays in Havana;" eg:
El Cafe Cubano: November 2005
What happens in Havana, stays in Havana especially if you speak out
against castro"...
elcubanocafe.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_archive.html - 159k -
--
Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Roland Hutchinson
Might it have some connection also with the fact(?) that you can't be sued
to collect gambling debts? (Which is one reason why casinos tend to insist
on cash up front to let you play.)
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
R H Draney
>general rules of morality and behavior.
>
>The history of no. 2 is that gambling used to be generally
>illegal in all US states (except for wagering on horse
>races when personally at the racetrack) until the 1940s
>when Nevada permitted betting and gambling at certain
>resort hotels (constructed to launder the profits of
>organized crime.) Another legal change pioneered
>in the USA by Nevada was state-inspected brothels,
>cf. point no. 2 above.
Prostitution is and has always been illegal in Clark County, Nevada, where the
city of Las Vegas happens to be located....r
--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"
the Omrud
True in the UK, at least - gambling does not create an enforceable
contract. This may go back to Common Law - you've probably inherited
it.
--
David
=====
Roland Hutchinson
> my.sp...@verizon.net had it ...
>> Might it have some connection also with the fact(?) that you can't be
>> sued
>> to collect gambling debts? (Which is one reason why casinos tend to
>> insist on cash up front to let you play.)
>
> True in the UK, at least - gambling does not create an enforceable
> contract.
Not enforceable by the state, at any rate.
We are not entirely unacquainted on these shores with the willingness of a
certain class of entrepreneurs to arrange for what might politely be termed
the private enforcement, complementary to the strict purview of officially
sanctioned legality, of debts incurred whilst gambling.
> This may go back to Common Law - you've probably inherited it.
Yes, I thought all that might be the case, but who knows how statute law may
have modified it? They have a _lot_ of statutes relating to gambling in
Nevada, I gather. In any event, I was not disposed to research the subject
at the time when I posted, as you will have surmised.
Purl Gurl
> Don Phillipson wrote:
>> liu wrote:
(snipped)
>> 2. This is OK because Las Vegas is exempt from
>> general rules of morality and behavior.
>> organized crime.) Another legal change pioneered
>> in the USA by Nevada was state-inspected brothels,
>> cf. point no. 2 above.
> Prostitution is and has always been illegal in Clark County, Nevada, where the
> city of Las Vegas happens to be located.
http://www.bunnyranch.com/main.php
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10003761/
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/cathouse2/synopsis.html
--
Purl Gurl
--
"Then again what can you expect from a fat-assed, champagne swilling,
half-breed just off the Rez?"
- Joe Kline
LFS
The only time I've heard it was in Spamalot which we saw in New York in
2005 - it raised a big laugh in the audience so I assumed it had some
local meaning.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Grrr
Oleg Lego
I've heard it often in films. It's not always "Vegas", but could be
any city, or even an organization or an event.
"What happens in Miami, stays in Miami."
"What happens in Fight Club, stays in fight club."
"What happens it Spring Break, stays in Spring Break."
Donna Richoux
> What happens in the playgroup stays in the playgroup.
That made me think of using the asterisk to search for other uses in
Google Groups. I already reported finding the Vegas version in 2000, and
there are quite a few others that predate it. The oldest ones:
============
... All of which has zero to do with your general premise that "what
happens in back stays in back",IMHO.
Aug 22 2000 by Michael Downey
``What happens in Cuba stays in Cuba.''
Jun 5 2000
Or.....what happens in Dublin, stays in Dublin..they just aren't
telling.
Jan 3 2000
We kind of had something similar going, but one of the requirements of
our travels, is that "What happens in Alabama, stays in Alabama" (insert
state as required) LOL! ...
Mar 16 1999
Of course, most of the sailors I know like the
old Navy phrase "what happens at home stays at home, and what happens in
port, stays in port." Until it applies to their spouses! ...
Dec 11 1997
Like I told the girls, what happens in here stays in here.
May 6 1997
But I agree with other people who say that you need to make sure all
the players know that what happens in character stays in character. ...
Sep 6 1995
============
The above 1997 reference to "an old Navy phrase" might lead to
something.
tinwhistler
> something.
I agree, but I'd hate to see a nautical connection with the origin of
the OP phrase (just on principle).
Don Phillipson
news:5essouF...@mid.individual.net...
> . . . "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
> Might it have some connection also with the fact(?) that you can't be sued
> to collect gambling debts? (Which is one reason why casinos tend to
insist
> on cash up front to let you play.)
Another consideration is that (Elmore Leonard says)
mob-owned gambling institutions employ as debt-collectors
rather large men who carry baseball bats.
Donna Richoux
> I've heard it often in films. It's not always "Vegas", but could be
> any city, or even an organization or an event.
>
> "What happens in Miami, stays in Miami."
> "What happens in Fight Club, stays in fight club."
That last one sounded really likely, so I looked it up.
First I saw that "Fight Club" was released in 1999, which is before the
majority of uses, but not before the earliest dates.
Second, Internet Movie Database does not list any "stays" among its long
list of memorable quotes. What it has:
The first rule of Fight Club is - you do not
talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club
is - you DO NOT talk about Fight Club. Third rule of
Fight Club, someone yells Stop!, goes limp, taps out,
the fight is over. Fourth rule, only two guys to a
fight. Fifth rule, one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth
rule, no shirt, no shoes. Seventh rule, fights will
go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and
final rule, if this is your first night at Fight Club,
you have to fight.
And then later:
The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club?
So although you may have heard someone paraphrase the rule in that form,
it wasn't in the movie.
Donna Richoux
> On Jul 2, 3:38 pm, t...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:
> [snip]
> > The above 1997 reference to "an old Navy phrase" might lead to
> > something.
>
>
> I agree, but I'd hate to see a nautical connection with the origin of
> the OP phrase (just on principle).
>
It doesn't lead to much of anywhere, though. If it was an old Navy
saying, it didn't get written down much.
Stepping back to apply the asterisk trick to Google Books, I found these
as the oldest for "happens in * stays in":
Social Workers as Trainers in Health Programs: Based
on the Proceedings of the 1971 Annual ... - Page 7 by
National Institute of Child Health and Human
Development (U.S.), Margaret Greenfield, World Health
Organization - 1972 - 84 pages
What happens in
California stays in California; what happens in New
York remains in New York, so to speak. I am talking
about developing a mechanism where ...
Nam - Page 177 by Mark Baker - 1983
But what happens
in the field, stays in the field. We were riding in a
jeep, about five of us. The driver said jokingly, "
Will anybody bet me that I won't ..
The list of hits was heavy on social work, psychotherapy, family
counseling, etc. We've seen some phrases circulate widely within the
"self-help" community before going broadly public, and this might be
another.
The military origin is still possible -- note that the last is about
Viet Nam.
"happens in the field stays in the field" turns up 29 regular Web hits,
but we won't get dates from those. Proquest?
Evan Kirshenbaum
>> What happens in the playgroup stays in the playgroup.
>
> That made me think of using the asterisk to search for other uses in
> Google Groups. I already reported finding the Vegas version in 2000,
> and there are quite a few others that predate it. The oldest ones:
>
> ============
>
> But I agree with other people who say that you need to make sure all
> the players know that what happens in character stays in
> character. ... Sep 6 1995
The oldest on Google Books is a year older:
Sayings like "Don't hang out your dirty laundry" or "Whatever
happens in this family stays in this family" ...
Susan Johnson and Herbert Anderson, _Regarding
Children_, 1994
Somewhat similar:
Edison stopped mid-sentence, sat, down, stood up again, and looked
at Chuck. "What you hear in this room stays in this room."
T. Jefferson Parker, _Little Saigon, 1989
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |I value writers such as Fiske.
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |They serve as valuable object
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |lessons by showing that the most
|punctilious compliance with the
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |rules of usage has so little to do
(650)857-7572 |with either writing or thinking
|well.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | --Richard Hershberger
Donna Richoux
> tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) writes:
>
> >> What happens in the playgroup stays in the playgroup.
> >
> > That made me think of using the asterisk to search for other uses in
> > Google Groups. I already reported finding the Vegas version in 2000,
> > and there are quite a few others that predate it. The oldest ones:
> >
> > ============
> >
> > But I agree with other people who say that you need to make sure all
> > the players know that what happens in character stays in
> > character. ... Sep 6 1995
>
> The oldest on Google Books is a year older:
>
> Sayings like "Don't hang out your dirty laundry" or "Whatever
> happens in this family stays in this family" ...
>
> Susan Johnson and Herbert Anderson, _Regarding
> Children_, 1994
>
> Somewhat similar:
>
> Edison stopped mid-sentence, sat, down, stood up again, and looked
> at Chuck. "What you hear in this room stays in this room."
>
> T. Jefferson Parker, _Little Saigon, 1989
I should have made a note of exactly what search terms I used. Anyway,
as I posted today, I got some from 1972 and 1983 by searching in Google
Books for: <"happens in * stays in" date:0-2000>.
Could you check Proquest for something like this, or perhaps it doesn't
have a word-wildcard? If not, the phrases with port, "the field," "the
group" and "in/at home" seem promising.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Could you check Proquest for something like this, or perhaps it doesn't
> have a word-wildcard? If not, the phrases with port, "the field," "the
> group" and "in/at home" seem promising.
I tried, but couldn't find anything useful. No, it doesn't have word
wildcards (just end-of-word truncations)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |You may hate gravity, but gravity
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |doesn't care.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 | Clayton Christensen
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Oleg Lego
I tossed that one out because I'd heard it somewhere. Though I am not
sure where I heard it, I have a feeling it was in another film or
television series, in which one of the characters was in Fight Club or
a similar thing.
Mark Brader
> > "What happens in Fight Club, stays in fight club."
Donna Richoux wrote:
> That last one sounded really likely, so I looked it up.
>
> First I saw that "Fight Club" was released in 1999, which is before the
> majority of uses, but not before the earliest dates.
>
> Second, Internet Movie Database does not list any "stays" among its long
> list of memorable quotes.
...
> So although you may have heard someone paraphrase the rule in that form,
> it wasn't in the movie.
Uh, Donna, the fact that a line isn't quoted in the IMDB doesn't mean
it's not in the movie. Even if all their quotes are correct, which
(as I've previously noted) is often not the case.
What *does* strongly suggest that the line isn't in the movie is
the fact that it doesn't appear in this, which is supposed to be its
shooting script:
http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/fight_club_shoot.txt
The word "happens" does not occur in the script at all, and "stays"
appears only in a stage direction.
(Even this is only strongly suggestive, as it's always possible that
the line was added in a later rewrite or an ad lib.)
--
Mark Brader "...there are other means of persuasion
m...@vex.net besides killing and threatening to kill."
Toronto --Dashiell Hammett, The Maltese Falcon
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Donna Richoux
> This was posted:
> > > "What happens in Fight Club, stays in fight club."
>
> Donna Richoux wrote:
> > That last one sounded really likely, so I looked it up.
> >
> > First I saw that "Fight Club" was released in 1999, which is before the
> > majority of uses, but not before the earliest dates.
> >
> > Second, Internet Movie Database does not list any "stays" among its long
> > list of memorable quotes.
> ...
> > So although you may have heard someone paraphrase the rule in that form,
> > it wasn't in the movie.
>
> Uh, Donna, the fact that a line isn't quoted in the IMDB doesn't mean
> it's not in the movie. Even if all their quotes are correct, which
> (as I've previously noted) is often not the case.
True, they're a good starting point for memorable quotes, but they're
not perfect. I'm glad you looked for the script.
>
> What *does* strongly suggest that the line isn't in the movie is
> the fact that it doesn't appear in this, which is supposed to be its
> shooting script:
>
> http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/fight_club_shoot.txt
>
> The word "happens" does not occur in the script at all, and "stays"
> appears only in a stage direction.
>
> (Even this is only strongly suggestive, as it's always possible that
> the line was added in a later rewrite or an ad lib.)
Yes, but the chances are remote. Comparing the odds: a nine-word
sentence appears in the movie but is not in the shooting script or IMDb,
vs, someone here erroneously remembers a popular recent catchphrase as
appearing in a popular recent movie. My money is on the latter.
Richard Maurer
But I don't think it's very old. A bit of hunting in a
dated archive would quite likely show a year of origin....
Google Groups has nothing before Nov. 1, 2000:
I'm not sure I can share with you the details
as I was informed that "What happens in Vegas,
stays in Vegas."
And nothing more until 2003, which suggests that's
the year a local saying hit the mainstream.
It might be modeled after some similar saying...
The mainstream was hit in 2003 when the TV show "Las Vegas"
aired the second episode on September 9, entitled
"What Happens in Vegas Stays in Vegas".
A similar saying is:
"What is said in this room stays in this room,"
--- The Light Infantry Ball by Hamilton Basso,
1959 (date confirmed), page 180
Still there is the intriguing thought that the above
might have been modeled upon a place name such as Macau.
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Page
I first heard in the form "what happens on tour stays on tour" in
relation to touring rugby teams. A search on that form turns up
something apparently from 1998. I think there was a commercial
for Las Vegas that may have popularised the phrase in its Vegas
form.
--
Mike Page
Who has a space after the two dashes in his
sig. separator, honest.