"Spuggies"

[Matthias Kranz]

I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by British
authoress Pat Barker:
"The spuggies aren't everybody's cup of tea."
As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of spiritistic
session she is going to. But what exactly does "spuggies" mean?
I haven't found this word in any dictionary and would therefore be
glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact meaning.
Thanks,
M. Kranz

[Brian J Goggin]

No sign of it in OED, Partridge (Historical Slang), Brewer or several
dictionaries of slang. The nearest thing I can find is "spug" (with
several different spellings), a sparrow; Collins has it under
"spuggy", but neither Chambers nor the OED gives that variant. Collins
says it's from Northeast English dialect, ultimately from Scottish
"sprug"; most others go straight to the Scottish word.

Could it be a reference to "sparrow-brain colloq., (a person with) a
tiny brain, (a person of) limited intelligence or perception" (OED)?
Or Sir John Sparrow (who he?) "1902 H. Begbie Adv. Sir John Sparrow
xiv. 221 We flee from before the face of vegetarianism, fruitarianism,
theosophy, and religious manias"?

bjg

[Lee Rudolph]

b...@wordwrights.ie (Brian J Goggin) writes:

>On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:32:21 -0800, Matthias Kranz
><kr...@wupper.bib.uni-wuppertal.de> wrote:
>
>>I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by British
>>authoress Pat Barker:
>>"The spuggies aren't everybody's cup of tea."
>>As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of spiritistic
>>session she is going to. But what exactly does "spuggies" mean?
>>I haven't found this word in any dictionary and would therefore be
>>glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact meaning.
>
>No sign of it in OED, Partridge (Historical Slang), Brewer or several
>dictionaries of slang. The nearest thing I can find is "spug" (with
>several different spellings), a sparrow;

Well, there you have it. God's eye is on them.

Lee Rudolph

[K. Harper]

Matthias Kranz wrote:
>
> I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by British
> authoress Pat Barker:
> "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup of tea."
> As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of spiritistic
> session she is going to. But what exactly does "spuggies" mean?

Just a guess, but could this be a spelling variation on "spooks/spookies"?

Katherine Harper
Department of English
Bowling Green State University

[Patrick Gillard]

In article <34bde21a...@news.indigo.ie>, Brian J Goggin
<b...@wordwrights.ie> writes

>On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:32:21 -0800, Matthias Kranz

><kr...@wupper.bib.uni-wuppertal.de> wrote:
>
>>I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by British
>>authoress Pat Barker:
>>"The spuggies aren't everybody's cup of tea."
>>As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of spiritistic
>>session she is going to. But what exactly does "spuggies" mean?

>>I haven't found this word in any dictionary and would therefore be
>>glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact meaning.
>
>No sign of it in OED, Partridge (Historical Slang), Brewer or several
>dictionaries of slang. The nearest thing I can find is "spug" (with

>several different spellings), a sparrow; Collins has it under
>"spuggy", but neither Chambers nor the OED gives that variant. Collins
>says it's from Northeast English dialect, ultimately from Scottish
>"sprug"; most others go straight to the Scottish word.
>
>Could it be a reference to "sparrow-brain colloq., (a person with) a
>tiny brain, (a person of) limited intelligence or perception" (OED)?
>Or Sir John Sparrow (who he?) "1902 H. Begbie Adv. Sir John Sparrow
>xiv. 221 We flee from before the face of vegetarianism, fruitarianism,
>theosophy, and religious manias"?
>
>bjg
>

My mother (born north-east of england) used to say 'spuggies' for
'sparrows'. I seem to remember it being used for some kind of sweets as
well but I'm not sure on that one.

--
Patrick Gillard

to reply by e-mail send to patrick at faustina dot demon dot co dot UK

[Sam Brookes]

In article <34BE1E...@bgnet.bgsu.edu>, "K. Harper"
<kha...@bgnet.bgsu.edu> writes

>Matthias Kranz wrote:
>>
>> I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by British
>> authoress Pat Barker:
>> "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup of tea."
>> As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of spiritistic
>> session she is going to. But what exactly does "spuggies" mean?

To me, here in England Spuggie only means one thing - - sparrow.

--
Sam

[Lars Eighner]

In our last episode <34BE48...@wupper.bib.uni-wuppertal.de>,
the lovely and talented Matthias Kranz <kr...@wupper.bib.uni-wuppertal.de>
broadcast on alt.usage.english:

|I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by British
|authoress Pat Barker:
|"The spuggies aren't everybody's cup of tea."
|As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of spiritistic
|session she is going to. But what exactly does "spuggies" mean?

|I haven't found this word in any dictionary and would therefore be
|glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact meaning.

Unless this is some especially obscure British slang, I'd suggest
to you that it is a nonce word and you aren't supposed to know
exactly what it means.

There is some suggestion in it that it is a diminutive or familiar
form -- could it be derived of an acronym or of a proper noun
for the sect with which the character is involved?

--
Lars Eighner= http://www.io.com/%7Eeighner === eig...@io.com ============
700 Hearn Street (at West 7th) #101 (512)474-1920 [FAX answers 6th ring] ==
Austin TX 78703-4501 == Help! I can't remember to take my Ginkgo! ==
Lars Eighner's Home Page Bookstore - http://www.io.com/%7Eeighner/bookstor.html

[Lee Rudolph]

eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) writes, in response to a question
about

>|I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by British
>|authoress Pat Barker:
>|"The spuggies aren't everybody's cup of tea."

that

>There is some suggestion in it that it is a diminutive or familiar
>form -- could it be derived of an acronym or of a proper noun
>for the sect with which the character is involved?

I would guess it refers to The Society for the Propagation of the
Gospel.

Lee Rudolph

[Paul Rhodes]

Sam Brookes <s...@sambo.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>To me, here in England Spuggie only means one thing - - sparrow.

I presume "spuggies" is pronounced with a hard 'gg'? "spudgies" (soft
'g') is another version.

Paul

[L.I. Endell]

Lee Rudolph (lrud...@panix.com) wrote:
: eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) writes, in response to a question
: about

: that

Ah, that sounds reasonable. That's the group we used to refer to as The
Society for the Prevention of the Gospel...

Linz

--
Lindsay Endell li...@cam.ac.uk & li...@earthling.net
Conference Administrator, Trinity Hall, Cambridge CB2 1TJ

[auyeung...@ashbournecollege.co.uk]

On Thursday, 15 January 1998 08:00:00 UTC, Matthias Kranz wrote:
> I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by British
> authoress Pat Barker:
> "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup of tea."

> As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of spiritistic
> session she is going to. But what exactly does "spuggies" mean?
> I haven't found this word in any dictionary and would therefore be
> glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact meaning.

> Thanks,
> M. Kranz

I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!

--


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[Peter Moylan]

On 10/01/20 23:31, auyeung...@ashbournecollege.co.uk wrote:
> On Thursday, 15 January 1998 08:00:00 UTC, Matthias Kranz wrote:

>> I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by
>> British authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup
>> of tea." As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of
>> spiritistic session she is going to. But what exactly does
>> "spuggies" mean? I haven't found this word in any dictionary and
>> would therefore be glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact
>> meaning. Thanks, M. Kranz
>
> I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!

Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am reluctant
to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

The OED has "spuggy/spuggies":

Scottish and English regional (chiefly north-eastern).

The house sparrow.

That is unlikely to be the meaning of "spuggy" in the novel.

It is possible the "Sp" comes from "Spiritualist" and "G" comes from
something starting with that letter. "Spuggy" seems to be a nickname. I
am not familiar with spiritualist organisations. One such appears to be
"Spiritualist Association of Great Britain". Its official initialism is
SAGB.

The nickname "Spuggy" might have been created from that name using "Sp"
and "g" with the vowel "u" inserted.

On the other hand the "g" way have come from "Group" in the name of the
organisation nicknamed.

Tangentially: "Spuggy" might be a nickname for regular patrons of a
particular bar and restaurant in Scotland.

The Spiritualist, Glasgow:
https://www.thespiritualistglasgow.com

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Anders D. Nygaard]

Den 10-01-2020 kl. 13:31 skrev auyeung...@ashbournecollege.co.uk
(as part of the (much too long) .sig):

> This e-mail and its attachments

The following is probably futile, but in case auyeungtszwing should
come across this usenet group again, what you have written and posted
is not an e-mail, but a usenet posting.

/Anders, Denmark.

[Peter T. Daniels]

All 11 prior messages?

[Jerry Friedman]

Several people mentioned sparrows. I like Katherine Harper's suggestion
that it was the character's whimsical variant of "spooks".

If anyone's interested in the passage in the book,

https://books.google.com/books?id=aazHAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT46

--
Jerry Friedman

[CDB]

On 1/10/2020 12:34 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:

>> auyeung...@ashbournecollege.co.uk wrote:
>>> Matthias Kranz wrote:

>>>> I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by
>>>> British authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't everybody's
>>>> cup of tea." As context shows, the character is talking about
>>>> a kind of spiritistic session she is going to. But what
>>>> exactly does "spuggies" mean? I haven't found this word in any
>>>> dictionary and would therefore be glad if anyone of you could
>>>> tell me its exact meaning. Thanks, M. Kranz

>>> I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!

>> Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am
>> reluctant to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.

> Several people mentioned sparrows. I like Katherine Harper's
> suggestion that it was the character's whimsical variant of
> "spooks".

In support of that, I have seen it suggested, while looking around, that
the word as used by Basil Bunting in the epigraph of his free-verse poem
"Briggflatts", "The spuggies are fledged" was intended to be pronounced
with a "hard 'g'" and in a Northern accent: ['spUgiz], perhaps.

But there is also the famous tendency of sparrows to fall while God is
watching. Ghosts of the war dead?

> If anyone's interested in the passage in the book,

> https://books.google.com/books?id=aazHAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT46

Couldn't find it there, but Gooboo has previews.

[Katy Jennison]

Common name for sparrows here is 'spadgers', with a soft g. But I
haven't looked up the poem.

--
Katy Jennison

[CDB]

On 1/10/2020 3:58 PM, Katy Jennison wrote:

Poem and word were both new to me, although I read as much of Bunting's
text as I could find. The only use of the word I saw was in the epigraph.

One Northern form of the word that I saw elsewhere was "spog", which I
suppose would have had the hard "g".

[Katy Jennison]

Finally intrigued enough to do a search for 'spuggies', I see there's
references to both Pat Barker's use and Basil Bunting's,
https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=spuggies, and that
Barker's use is translated 'séance'. I'm inclined to conclude she made
it up.

Bunting's hard g is at odds with the 'spadger' I've known from
childhood, but then again if you want to produce a nickname starting
'sp-' you can follow it with almost anything, and there's no reason for
either one to have been derived from the other.

Here's the OED on 'spadger':

Pronunciation /ˈspadʒə/
Frequency (in current use): [two dots out of a max of eight]
Etymology: Fanciful alteration of sparrow n.

dialect or colloquial.

1. A sparrow. Also attributive.
1862 C. C. Robinson Dial. Leeds & Neighbourhood 417 ‘Spadger-pie’ is
an article of diet occasionally.
1892 D. Jordan Within Hour of London 59 The sparrow, or ‘spadger’,
is a friend to the farmer.

2. transferred. A boy. colloquial. rare.
1899 Captain II. 273/2 If we've got to take these three young
spadgers..we shall want something bigger'n this here gig.
1978 K. Bonfiglioli All Tea in China i. iii. 29 ‘See here, young
spadger,’ he said..‘if you should be a little short of tin..come and
spend a night or two at Great Coram Street.’

--
Katy Jennison

[Peter Moylan]

On 11/01/20 07:58, Katy Jennison wrote:
>
> Common name for sparrows here is 'spadgers', with a soft g. But I
> haven't looked up the poem.

I'm trying to remember what we called them WIWAL. Something similar but
not identical to that. Possibly spidgies.

[Peter Moylan]

On 12/01/20 08:45, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 11/01/20 07:58, Katy Jennison wrote:
>>
>> Common name for sparrows here is 'spadgers', with a soft g. But I
>> haven't looked up the poem.
>
> I'm trying to remember what we called them WIWAL. Something similar but
> not identical to that. Possibly spidgies.

Found it. Yes, it was spidgies.

http://ozwords.org/?tag=spidgie

I haven't seen one for many years, by the way. They seem to have
disappeared from this area.

[Katy Jennison]

On 11/01/2020 22:11, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 12/01/20 08:45, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 11/01/20 07:58, Katy Jennison wrote:
>>>
>>> Common name for sparrows here is 'spadgers', with a soft g.  But I
>>> haven't looked up the poem.
>>
>> I'm trying to remember what we called them WIWAL. Something similar but
>> not identical to that. Possibly spidgies.
>
> Found it. Yes, it was spidgies.
>
>     http://ozwords.org/?tag=spidgie
>
> I haven't seen one for many years, by the way. They seem to have
> disappeared from this area.
>

Ah, a excellent list in that link: 'Posted in British dialect, fauna,
regionalism [...]: spadge, spadger, Spadger's Lane, spag, spagger,
sparrow, spidgie, spoggy, sprag, spraggie, sprig, spriggy, spug, spuggy,
spyug, squidgie'

--
Katy Jennison

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 12/01/20 08:45, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 11/01/20 07:58, Katy Jennison wrote:
> >>
> >> Common name for sparrows here is 'spadgers', with a soft g. But I
> >> haven't looked up the poem.
> >
> > I'm trying to remember what we called them WIWAL. Something similar but
> > not identical to that. Possibly spidgies.
>
> Found it. Yes, it was spidgies.
>
> http://ozwords.org/?tag=spidgie
>
> I haven't seen one for many years, by the way. They seem to have
> disappeared from this area.

Same here. Fifty years ago sparrows were by far the most common birds.
Nowadays they have disappeared in many places.
Cause unknown. There are speculations that it may be some virus.

Some pockets survive though.
I know a motorway stop which has lots of very tame ones.
They will come and sit on your table, expecting to be fed,

Jan

PS Yet another false friend alert for the bird lovers among us:
A sparrow in a 'mus' in Dutch, or idem a 'huismus'.
A 'spreeuw' otoh is a starling, so no direct family.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 11:25:40 +0100, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:


>
>Same here. Fifty years ago sparrows were by far the most common birds.
>Nowadays they have disappeared in many places.
>Cause unknown. There are speculations that it may be some virus.
>
>Some pockets survive though.
>I know a motorway stop which has lots of very tame ones.
>They will come and sit on your table, expecting to be fed,
>

The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.

The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*

Because this annoys some people, Costco tried to reduce the sparrow
population by hiring some people with nets on poles to capture them.
That *greatly* annoyed other people. The problem was that the area is
filled with sparrows during the times when a lot of people are eating,
and any capturing has to be done with witnesses. Costco can't figure
out where the sparrows go in the hours where there are no crowds.

A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my wife
was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a long-skirted dress
was sitting at one of the tables. A floor-scrounging sparrow flew up
her dress.

The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor. Best
time I ever had at Costco.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[David Kleinecke]

We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.

PS: It is almost certain I will never go back to Hilo again and never
learn whether the HRBs still thrive.

[Sam Plusnet]

Squidgie?? I don't like the sound of that one.

--
Sam Plusnet

[RH Draney]

On 1/12/2020 7:45 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
> If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
> hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
> picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
>
> The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
> food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
> for dropped bits.*

I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....

Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r

[J. J. Lodder]

Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,

Jan

[RH Draney]

Not quite, but higher on the scale than either doves or the raptors we
also have round these parts...they seem to be right on the bubble of
true self-awareness; I've seen some grackles puzzled by their reflection
in a window (apparently assuming it's another bird to be dealt with)
while others recognize it as themselves and set to preening....

I've also seen the leader of a grackle foraging party fight off one of
his (it's always an alpha male) own entourage at a food source that's
plentiful enough to feed everyone...at some point, one of the females
will make a very conspicuous attempt to steal part of what the head
honcho is eating, distracting him just enough that the rest of the group
can come in from behind and grab portions for themselves...he never
seems to catch on to the ploy, and I often wonder if the hens take turns
playing decoy....r

[bil...@shaw.ca]

They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org. They are common
in the eastern and southern parts of North America and having been
expanding westward, but have not managed to cross the Rocky Mountains.

bill

[Jerry Friedman]

Try thinking of something else. Maybe you should have a nice shandy.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On 1/12/20 4:14 PM, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 2:14:15 PM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:

...

>>> I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
>>> operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
>>> were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
>>> waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
>>> sugar"....
>>>
>>> Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
>>> would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
>>> others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
>>> and begin eating....r
>>
>> Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
>> Maybe they are just as intelligent,
>
> They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.

Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
representatives are buntings.

Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
parvorder.

> They are common
> in the eastern and southern parts of North America and having been
> expanding westward, but have not managed to cross the Rocky Mountains.

More bird pedantry: You're talking about the Common Grackle. R and I
have Great-tailed Grackles, a bigger and more comical bird. Tony Cooper
has Boat-tailed Grackles, which are a lot like Great-tailed.


--
Jerry Friedman

[Tony Cooper]

Like this one? Photographed on the shore of Lake Monroe.

https://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Birds/i-7p5LZFL/A

[Jerry Friedman]

On 1/12/20 7:23 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 19:04:56 -0700, Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/12/20 4:14 PM, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

[grackles]

>>> They are common
>>> in the eastern and southern parts of North America and having been
>>> expanding westward, but have not managed to cross the Rocky Mountains.
>>
>> More bird pedantry: You're talking about the Common Grackle. R and I
>> have Great-tailed Grackles, a bigger and more comical bird. Tony Cooper
>> has Boat-tailed Grackles, which are a lot like Great-tailed.
>
> Like this one? Photographed on the shore of Lake Monroe.
>
> https://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Birds/i-7p5LZFL/A

Very much like that one.

--
Jerry Friedman

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 6:05:00 PM UTC-8, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 1/12/20 4:14 PM, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 2:14:15 PM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
> ...
>
> >>> I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
> >>> operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
> >>> were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
> >>> waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
> >>> sugar"....
> >>>
> >>> Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
> >>> would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
> >>> others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
> >>> and begin eating....r
> >>
> >> Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
> >> Maybe they are just as intelligent,
> >
> > They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
>
> Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
> blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
> parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
> representatives are buntings.
>
> Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
> parvorder.

I've got to know the localnorthwestern crows a little. I've followed their
daily migration from their foraging territories back to their main
roost in this area. I live near a park where up to several hundred
of them meet a couple of times a day, apparently to exchange information
about how the day is going. They seemed to be quite organized.

>
> > They are common
> > in the eastern and southern parts of North America and having been
> > expanding westward, but have not managed to cross the Rocky Mountains.
>
> More bird pedantry: You're talking about the Common Grackle. R and I
> have Great-tailed Grackles, a bigger and more comical bird. Tony Cooper
> has Boat-tailed Grackles, which are a lot like Great-tailed.
>

I used to see what might have been the last crested myna in Vancouver.
They were introduced here in the 1890s, thrived for a time, and
disappeared in the early 2000s. I often saw one in the 1990s
on a shopping street in East Vancouver.

bill

[J. J. Lodder]

Not too hard, doves an raptors are stupid.
I once saw a documentary about the great owls.
The owner of a tamed one described them as 'incredibly stupid'.

> I've also seen the leader of a grackle foraging party fight off one of
> his (it's always an alpha male) own entourage at a food source that's
> plentiful enough to feed everyone...at some point, one of the females
> will make a very conspicuous attempt to steal part of what the head
> honcho is eating, distracting him just enough that the rest of the group
> can come in from behind and grab portions for themselves...he never
> seems to catch on to the ploy, and I often wonder if the hens take turns
> playing decoy....r

From what those who have systematically observed them
I gather that in European crow-likes the alpha male
and the alpha female work as a team.

I also gathered that their social interactions are milder.
They certainly know what their status is,
but they don't feel the need to demonstrate it all the time,

Jan

[Peter Moylan]

On 13/01/20 01:45, Tony Cooper wrote:

> The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating
> area. If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food
> (pizza, hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows
> of picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
>
> The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and
> steal food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging
> around for dropped bits.*

We don't have that problem here, but seagulls will try to steal your
food if you're eating at or near the beach.

Some years ago we had a problem with frozen chickens attacking homes,
sometimes even creating a hole in someone's roof. It turned out that a
business selling chickens was putting its surplus into a big garbage
bin. Pelicans would grab a chicken, then fly high, then realise that the
chicken was too heavy to carry, so a frozen chicken would fall from the
sky. It took a couple of weeks to discover the cause.

[Peter Moylan]

On 13/01/20 21:39, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:

>> Not quite, but higher on the scale than either doves or the raptors
>> we also have round these parts...they seem to be right on the
>> bubble of true self-awareness; I've seen some grackles puzzled by
>> their reflection in a window (apparently assuming it's another bird
>> to be dealt with) while others recognize it as themselves and set
>> to preening....
>
> Not too hard, doves an raptors are stupid. I once saw a documentary
> about the great owls. The owner of a tamed one described them as
> 'incredibly stupid'.

A couple of years ago I was sitting at my computer, next to a window,
when I heard a huge bang from the window. I went outside and discovered
a stunned rosella on the ground. After about ten minutes it woke up and
flew away.

A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was in
the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of the
house.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

Not airplane testing then?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/catapoultry/
</urban myth>



--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

Your wall is invisble to sonar? Quick, get a patent!

[J. J. Lodder]

Google says it is some kind of Frisbie,

Jan

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 11:12:56 AM UTC-7, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 6:45:04 AM UTC-8, Tony Cooper wrote:

[Costco in Florida]

> > A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my wife
> > was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a long-skirted dress
> > was sitting at one of the tables. A floor-scrounging sparrow flew up
> > her dress.
> >
> > The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
> > sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor. Best
> > time I ever had at Costco.
>
> We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
> birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.

...

Well, this describes House Sparrows as ubiquitous on the Big Island.

https://assets.ventbird.com/document/vent/Fall_Hawaii_2017_Field_Report.pdf/5aaf4652776c900620cd43e4

--
Jerry Friedman

[RH Draney]

Space-chickens falling from orbit!...r

[Tony Cooper]

There was a time in Argentina where one might know of a human body
dropped from the sky. One of Juan Perón's ways of dealing with
dissidents was to have them taken up in an airplane and tossed out.

[J. J. Lodder]

Over the ocean, and it was the Videla regime,

Jan

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 9:34:58 AM UTC-8, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 6:26:01 AM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 10/01/20 23:31, auyeung...@ashbournecollege.co.uk wrote:
> > > On Thursday, 15 January 1998 08:00:00 UTC, Matthias Kranz wrote:
> >
> > >> I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by
> > >> British authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup
> > >> of tea." As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of
> > >> spiritistic session she is going to. But what exactly does
> > >> "spuggies" mean? I haven't found this word in any dictionary and
> > >> would therefore be glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact
> > >> meaning. Thanks, M. Kranz
> > >
> > > I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!
> >
> > Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am reluctant
> > to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.
>
> Several people mentioned sparrows. I like Katherine Harper's suggestion
> that it was the character's whimsical variant of "spooks".
>
> If anyone's interested in the passage in the book,
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=aazHAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT46

And Thursday will be the anniversary of Lee Rudolf's answer:

> I would guess it refers to The Society for the Propagation of the
> Gospel.

So maybe leaves instead of feathers, tracts instead of bills.

/dps

[Peter Moylan]

Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.

One of the Australian immigrant groups (I forget which one) used to call
kookaburras "ha-ha pigeons". I gather that they had a similar taste to
pigeons.

[Peter Moylan]

The problem, I suspect, was that the trees were too close to the house,
so there was a confusing cluster of objects to detect. Sonar doesn't
have as good a resolution as light vision.

[Sam Plusnet]

True, but even a whale's sonar should be able to resolve an object the
size of a house, and I imagine flying foxes operate at higher frequencies.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

None of these people were tossed out, but quite a few fell to earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wheel-well_stowaway_flights


--
Sam Plusnet

[Mack A. Damia]

I can't do it.

When I visited Ensenada for the first time, I had squab for lunch. A
little bony, but it was a novelty.

Some months later, we ended up in Rosarito, and there was a restaurant
called "The Wagon Wheel". As you walk in, there was a large cage of
squabs, and you pick one out and they cook it. No way.

This was almost twenty years ago, and the name is not showing up now,
so it probably closed. I can't do it with trout, either. There is a
restaurant in Pennsylvania with a large trout pond in the garden. Same
procedure. No way.

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 13/01/20 05:12, David Kleinecke wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 6:45:04 AM UTC-8, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> >> A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
> >> wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
> >> long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
> >> floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
> >>
> >> The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
> >> sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
> >> Best time I ever had at Costco.
> >
> > We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
> > birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
>
> Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.

Do look at European culinary history.
Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
for the rich and the mighty,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 1/12/20 4:14 PM, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 2:14:15 PM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
> ...
>
> >>> I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
> >>> operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
> >>> were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
> >>> waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
> >>> sugar"....
> >>>
> >>> Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
> >>> would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
> >>> others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
> >>> and begin eating....r
> >>
> >> Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
> >> Maybe they are just as intelligent,
> >
> > They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
>
> Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
> blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
> parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
> representatives are buntings.
>
> Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
> parvorder.

Stamp collecting gone crazy,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 11:25:40 +0100, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Same here. Fifty years ago sparrows were by far the most common birds.
> >Nowadays they have disappeared in many places.
> >Cause unknown. There are speculations that it may be some virus.
> >
> >Some pockets survive though.
> >I know a motorway stop which has lots of very tame ones.
> >They will come and sit on your table, expecting to be fed,

> >
>
> The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
> If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
> hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
> picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
>
> The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
> food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
> for dropped bits.*

I passed on your stories to a birding friend.
She tells me that there is a Great Tit population
at one of her preferred outdoor cafes.
She orders coffee with whipped cream there, which she detests,
especially for the Tits.
The Great Tits will come to collect their share of the cream.
They will even sit on the rim of the cup.
Having learned this way that humans are harmless
they will also eat cake crumbs from an outstreched hand.

Jan

[Peter Young]

Four and twenty blackbirds ...

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Janet]

In article <RP-dnYvEtaqgvoDD...@brightview.co.uk>,
n...@home.com says...

Peter hasn't mentioned a whale crashing into his house. Yet.

Janet

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 14 Jan 2020 nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:
>
> > Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> On 13/01/20 05:12, David Kleinecke wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 6:45:04 AM UTC-8, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>
> >>>> A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
> >>>> wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
> >>>> long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
> >>>> floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
> >>>>
> >>>> The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
> >>>> sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
> >>>> Best time I ever had at Costco.
> >>>
> >>> We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
> >>> birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
> >>
> >> Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
>
> > Do look at European culinary history.
> > Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
> > In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
> > for the rich and the mighty,
>
> Four and twenty blackbirds ...

Yes, and a pocketful of rye too. Poirot stopped all that, didn't he?

I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.

Veblen would have liked it,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

There are already whales in space, so that may well come next.
<https://whalesinspace.com/>

Charles Fort would have loved it,

Jan

[Katy Jennison]

Lots of that sort of thing available here, especially around Christmas.
Google 'multi-bird roast'.

--
Katy Jennison

[J. J. Lodder]

Wel, yes, but the point was that in the middle ages
even very small birds got eaten.

BTW, do you really stuff them ten deep or more?

Jan

[Jerry Friedman]

On 1/14/20 7:30 AM, Katy Jennison wrote:
> On 14/01/2020 13:50, J. J. Lodder wrote:

...

>> I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
>> for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
>> It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
>> which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
>> which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
>> eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.
>>
>> Veblen would have liked it,
>>
>
> Lots of that sort of thing available here, especially around Christmas.
> Google 'multi-bird roast'.

AmE "turducken".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

It keeps people from thinking that looking like a crow might mean it's
equally intelligent.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On 1/14/20 3:36 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 13/01/20 05:12, David Kleinecke wrote:

[scrounging]

>>> We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
>>> birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
>>
>> Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
>
> Do look at European culinary history.
> Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
> In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
> for the rich and the mighty,

At the other end of the culinary spectrum, the schoolboys (sons of
military officers) in /Stalky & Co./ like sparrows.

"Now they were busy with their Saturday evening businesses—-cooking
sparrows over the gas with rusty nibs; brewing unholy drinks in
gallipots; skinning moles with pocket-knives; attending to paper trays
full of silkworms, or discussing the iniquities of their elders with a
freedom, fluency, and point that would have amazed their parents."

--
Jerry Friedman

[J. J. Lodder]

My my, do you really believe that stamp collecting is done
on basis of the intelligence of the stamps?

Jan

[Peter Young]

Stuffed camel, anyone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_stuffed_camel

[Sam Plusnet]

On 14-Jan-20 1:18, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 13/01/20 05:12, David Kleinecke wrote:

>>
>> We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
>> birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
>
> Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
>

In comparison to Lark's Tongues?


--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

Has anyone ever questioned him about this?

He's a stoic sort of chap, hardly the type to blubber about such a
misfortune.


--
Sam Plusnet

[Jerry Friedman]

Why don't they put it into an elephant? (If they make it at all.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:04:05 AM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On 1/14/20 3:36 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 1/12/20 4:14 PM, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > >>> On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 2:14:15 PM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > >>>> RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:

[sugar-scrounging grackles]

> > >>>> Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
> > >>>> Maybe they are just as intelligent,
> > >>>
> > >>> They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
> > >>
> > >> Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
> > >> blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
> > >> parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
> > >> representatives are buntings.
> > >>
> > >> Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
> > >> parvorder.
> > >
> > > Stamp collecting gone crazy,
> >
> > It keeps people from thinking that looking like a crow might mean it's
> > equally intelligent.
>
> My my, do you really believe that stamp collecting is done
> on basis of the intelligence of the stamps?

No, that would be as silly as believing that the intelligence of birds
is correlated with their plumage color.

"It's in the crow family, so it might be among the more intelligent
birds" would be a sensible statement.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Sam Plusnet]

Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.

Whole, non-homogenised milk was the default choice back then. I can't
recall if Blue Tits learned to recognise, and avoid, skimmed milk.


--
Sam Plusnet

[musika]

They couldn't find a big enough oven.

--
Ray
UK

[Katy Jennison]

Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.

The smallest bird seems to be a quail.

--
Katy Jennison

[Peter T. Daniels]

turducken

very well known

[John Dunlop]

Sam Plusnet:

Would he even notice? These Aussies have a reputation for being well oiled.

--
John

[J. J. Lodder]

Perhaps, but this one (start at 0:10 out of 1:14)
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/tits-pecking-milk-bottles-epidemic/z6xhqp3>
certainly looks like a Great Tit.

It is generally taken as an example of cultural behaviour.
One bird invented the trick, the others learned it.

Maybe they have forgotten again by now,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Your 'might' is better than my 'maybe'?

Jan

[Quinn C]

* J. J. Lodder:

> RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/12/2020 3:14 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

[grackles]

>>> Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
>>> Maybe they are just as intelligent,
>>

>> Not quite, but higher on the scale than either doves or the raptors we
>> also have round these parts...
>
> Not too hard, doves an raptors are stupid.

Hey, you're talking about birds that can distinguish Monet from
Picasso!

--
I don't see people ... as having a right to be idiots. It's
just impractical to try to stop them, unless they're hurting
somebody. -- Vicereine Cordelia
in L. McMaster Bujold, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen

[Peter Young]

Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.

> Whole, non-homogenised milk was the default choice back then. I can't
> recall if Blue Tits learned to recognise, and avoid, skimmed milk.

I get semi-skimmed milk now, but in the long-ago days when we had whole
milk it wasn't unusual for the blue-tits to have pecked a hole in the foil
lid. I still have blue and great tits in the garden.

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:21:06 +0000, Katy Jennison
<ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:


>Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
>various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.
>
>The smallest bird seems to be a quail.

A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.

Personally, the gaining a bite of such a small bird and the danger of
cracking a tooth isn't something I'd look forward to again. I'd
rather be invited over for KFC (fried chicken).


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes, readily available in supermarkets.
Produced commercially in quantity nowadays,
just like chickens.

It might amuse you to google 'spreeuwenpot'.
(are those things known in your parts?)
The things were ceramic nesting pots for sparrows,
to be hung on a wall, with a hole in the back
to harvest the young birds just before they would fly out.

Nowadays for garden decoration only,

Jan

[RH Draney]

On 1/14/2020 11:54 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:21:06 +0000, Katy Jennison
> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
>> various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.
>>
>> The smallest bird seems to be a quail.
>
> A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
> served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
> eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.

The only bird for which I've faced that risk was a rabbit....r

[Peter Young]

Years ago I anaestetised a farmer who was a keen shooter of game birds. He
complained of severe abdominal pain. The diagnosis was acute appendicitis,
and the abdominal x-ray showed a shotgun pellet at the expected position
of the appendix. The surgeon found a non-inflamed appendix (medical slang,
appendicitis alba vera). He then looked for another cause of the pain, and
found an inflamed Meckel's diverticulum, wherein was the pellet.

A broken tooth is not the only sequela of ingesting lead shot.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 2:47:32 PM UTC-5, Peter Young wrote:
> On 14 Jan 2020 Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote:

> > A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
> > served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
> > eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.

My uncle hunted deer. My aunt would prepare it but not eat it. We received
the same caution.

> > Personally, the gaining a bite of such a small bird and the danger of
> > cracking a tooth isn't something I'd look forward to again. I'd
> > rather be invited over for KFC (fried chicken).
>
> Years ago I anaestetised a farmer who was a keen shooter of game birds. He
> complained of severe abdominal pain. The diagnosis was acute appendicitis,
> and the abdominal x-ray showed a shotgun pellet at the expected position
> of the appendix. The surgeon found a non-inflamed appendix (medical slang,
> appendicitis alba vera). He then looked for another cause of the pain, and
> found an inflamed Meckel's diverticulum, wherein was the pellet.
>
> A broken tooth is not the only sequela of ingesting lead shot.

Was he advised to chew his food more thoroughly before swallowing?

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes, and in these parts the shot is no longer allowed to be lead,
so it is much harder,

Jan

[Anders D. Nygaard]

Den 12-01-2020 kl. 21:09 skrev RH Draney:
> I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
> operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
> were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
> waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
> sugar"....
>
> Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table

Stupid question from a non-native: Is sugar considered a condiment?
I associate the term with ketchup, worcestershire sauce, pickles, etc.

/Anders, Denmark

[charles]

In article <b9145b325...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young

<pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14 Jan 2020 Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote:

> > On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:21:06 +0000, Katy Jennison
> > <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:


> >>Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
> >>various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very
> >>common.
> >>
> >>The smallest bird seems to be a quail.

> > A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
> > served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
> > eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.

> > Personally, the gaining a bite of such a small bird and the danger of
> > cracking a tooth isn't something I'd look forward to again. I'd rather
> > be invited over for KFC (fried chicken).

> Years ago I anaestetised a farmer who was a keen shooter of game birds.
> He complained of severe abdominal pain. The diagnosis was acute
> appendicitis, and the abdominal x-ray showed a shotgun pellet at the
> expected position of the appendix. The surgeon found a non-inflamed
> appendix (medical slang, appendicitis alba vera). He then looked for
> another cause of the pain, and found an inflamed Meckel's diverticulum,
> wherein was the pellet.

> A broken tooth is not the only sequela of ingesting lead shot.

I can remember being served "wild duck" in an hotel in Dunoon and being
warned about possible lead shot.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Tony Cooper]

You are correct, but so is Mr Draney. The comment was that the birds
were raiding the condiment basket. In many US restaurants, a basket
or some sort of container will be placed on the table, and it will
contain salt, pepper, ketchup, (sometimes) jelly, and sugar packets.

The container, if a basket, is a condiment basket. A websearch says
the "baskets" are sold as "condiment caddies". Images are available.

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-01-14 05:36, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 13/01/20 05:12, David Kleinecke wrote:
>>> On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 6:45:04 AM UTC-8, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
>>>> wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
>>>> long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
>>>> floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
>>>>
>>>> The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
>>>> sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
>>>> Best time I ever had at Costco.
>>>
>>> We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
>>> birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
>>
>> Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
>
> Do look at European culinary history.
> Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
> In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
> for the rich and the mighty,
>

> Jan
>
>
See "Gigi".

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-01-13 21:11, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 14-Jan-20 1:23, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 14/01/20 03:50, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:02:06 GMT, Peter Moylan
>>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
>>>> attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was
>>>> in the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
>>>> continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of
>>>> the house.
>>>>
>>> Your wall is invisble to sonar? Quick, get a patent!
>>
>> The problem, I suspect, was that the trees were too close to the house,
>> so there was a confusing cluster of objects to detect. Sonar doesn't
>> have as good a resolution as light vision.
>>
> True,  but even a whale's sonar should be able to resolve an object the
> size of a house, and I imagine flying foxes operate at higher frequencies.
>

A friend of mine from Kuala Lumpur told me that the country folk would
'fish' for flying foxes at the edge of the forest, using kites trailing
treble hooks.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

[Sam Plusnet]

A place setting for each diner should include cutlery, napkin, wine
glasses, metal detector...


--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

On 14-Jan-20 18:48, Peter Young wrote:
> On 14 Jan 2020 Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>

>
>> Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
>> was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
>> cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
>
> Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
> support local businesses.
>

Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.



--
Sam Plusnet

[bil...@shaw.ca]

A condiment is defined as a seasoning or relish for food, and the
things you mentioned qualify. I don't think sugar qualifies unless
you bend the meaning a bit. I think of it as a leading member
of the category of sweeteners.

bill

[bil...@shaw.ca]

What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
captured on security cameras.

Here in urban Vancouver, Amazon usually uses the post office for
delivery, and the post office leaves a sticky note informing
the buyer at which post office and after what time the parcel
can be picked up.

bill

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:09:31 -0800 (PST), bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 5:12:50 PM UTC-8, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 14-Jan-20 18:48, Peter Young wrote:
>> > On 14 Jan 2020 Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >> Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
>> >> was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
>> >> cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
>> >
>> > Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
>> > support local businesses.
>> >
>>
>> Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
>> It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
>>
>What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
>a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
>the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
>people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
>captured on security cameras.
>

We have had several online orders delivered by Amazon, UPS, and the
USPS. Several. All of them leave the package outside of the door
without requiring us to accept them.

Some of them ring the doorbell and then leave. Some of them
photograph the package leaning against the door and send us that
photograph by text. Others just leave the package and go.

[snide...@gmail.com]

You're avoiding the "signature required" items?
Bignum$ and certain product types may fall into that category.


/dps

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 5:12:50 PM UTC-8, Sam Plusnet wrote:

"Uber Eats".

/dps

[RH Draney]

It certainly does...with its mouth open....r

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-01-14 10:36:30 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

>>
>> [ … ]

>>
> I passed on your stories to a birding friend.
> She tells me that there is a Great Tit population

Years ago there was an article in The Listener (an up-market magazine
for listeners to the radio -- I don't know if it still exists) intended
to be called "A pair of great tits" but changed to "A great pair of
tits" by a mischievous typesetter.

> at one of her preferred outdoor cafes.
> She orders coffee with whipped cream there, which she detests,
> especially for the Tits.
> The Great Tits will come to collect their share of the cream.
> They will even sit on the rim of the cup.
> Having learned this way that humans are harmless
> they will also eat cake crumbs from an outstreched hand.
>

> Jan
>


--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-01-15 02:09:31 +0000, bil...@shaw.ca said:

> On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 5:12:50 PM UTC-8, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 14-Jan-20 18:48, Peter Young wrote:
>>> On 14 Jan 2020 Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
>>>> was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
>>>> cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
>>>
>>> Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
>>> support local businesses.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
>> It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
>>
> What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
> a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
> the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
> people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
> captured on security cameras.

Here we can get such parcels delivered to the local Arab shop (the sort
of shop that is almost never closed and sells mainly groceries,
together with anything else that customers might want to buy, such as
vodka; in Birmingham when I lived there such shops were called
Pakistani shops).

>
> Here in urban Vancouver, Amazon usually uses the post office for
> delivery, and the post office leaves a sticky note informing
> the buyer at which post office and after what time the parcel
> can be picked up.
>
> bill

--
athel