Is "somewhen" a word?
anal...@hotmail.com
James Hogg
> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future".
John Stuart Mill, Charles Kingsley and H. G. Wells have all used it as a
word.
Here's how the OED defines it:
"At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other. Common in 19th
cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or somehow."
It's not very common today.
--
James
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
>I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future".
It is a word, but it is not used very often now.
The OED says:
somewhen, adv. SECOND EDITION 1989
At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other. Common in
19th cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or somehow.
1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 5212 Of e batayles of denemarch at abbe ybe
in is londe... Worst hii were, vor oere somwanne adde ydo [etc.].
1833 J. S. MILL Let. 5 July in Wks. (1963) XII. 163, I shall write
out my thoughts more at length somewhere, and somewhen, probably
soon.
1863 KINGSLEY Water-Bab. 349 Some folks can't help hoping..that they
may have another chance, to make things fair and even, somewhere,
somewhen, somehow.
1875 WHITNEY Life Lang. ix. 174 Spoken somewhere and somewhen in the
past.
1876 FREEMAN in W. R. W. Stephens Life & Lett. II. 134 To tarry with
James Allen..till somewhen about next Wednesday.
1920 H. G. WELLS Outl. History (rev. ed.) viii. 37/1 Somewhen about
50,000 years ago..appeared Homo Neanderthalensis.
1934 J. L. MYRES in E. Eyre Europ. Civilization I. 87 Such
accommodation between means and ends, resources and wants, is found
to have been achieved, somewhen and somehow, [etc.].
1975 J. C. MASTERMAN On Chariot Wheel v. 40, I cherished the belief
that somehow and somewhen I should find my way to Oxford.
It is possible that some of the people who use "somewhen" today are
reinventing it by analogy with "somehow" and "somewhere".
There is also a rare word "somewhy" which means for some reason or
reasons.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Moylan
> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future".
OneLook says "At some indefinite time", but then adds "(This definition
is from the 1913 Webster's Dictionary and may be outdated.)" That agrees
with my initial reaction, which is that the word is understandable
English, but should probably be avoided on the grounds that it's
excessively old-fashioned.
It would be a useful word if "sometime" didn't already exist.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Jeffrey Turner
That's an understatement. I've never seen it.
--Jeff
--
Is man one of God's blunders or
is God one of man's?
--Friedrich Nietzsche
James Silverton
> James Hogg wrote:
>> anal...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the
>>> future".
>>
>> John Stuart Mill, Charles Kingsley and H. G. Wells have all
>> used it as a word.
>>
>> Here's how the OED defines it:
>>
>> "At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other.
>> Common in 19th cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or somehow."
>>
>> It's not very common today.
> That's an understatement. I've never seen it.
It's got to be a joke.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
James Silverton
>> James Hogg wrote:
>>> anal...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the
>>>> future".
>>>
>>> John Stuart Mill, Charles Kingsley and H. G. Wells have all
>>> used it as a word.
>>>
>>> Here's how the OED defines it:
>>>
>>> "At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other.
>>> Common in 19th cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or
>>> somehow."
>>>
>>> It's not very common today.
>> That's an understatement. I've never seen it.
> It's got to be a joke.
Sorry, I've got to acknowledge its 19th century use. The OED has
somewhen, adv.
At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other. Common in 19th
cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or somehow.
1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 5212 Of e batayles of denemarch at abbe ybe in is
londe... Worst hii were, vor oere somwanne adde ydo [etc.].
--
Wood Avens
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500:
>
>> James Hogg wrote:
>>> anal...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the
>>>> future".
>>>
>>> John Stuart Mill, Charles Kingsley and H. G. Wells have all
>>> used it as a word.
>>>
>>> Here's how the OED defines it:
>>>
>>> "At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other.
>>> Common in 19th cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or somehow."
>>>
>>> It's not very common today.
>
>> That's an understatement. I've never seen it.
>
>It's got to be a joke.
I've used it once or twice, coupled with "somewhere".
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
Garrett Wollman
anal...@hotmail.com <anal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Subject: Is "somewhen" a word?
Well, it consists of word-constituent characters surrounded by
non-word characters, and it violates no constraints of English
pronunciation (phonotactics), so I'd say, yes, it is a word.
>I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future".
If it looks sufficiently like a word that you can ask questions like
whether it's a word or not, then it is by definition a word. Whether
it is a word or not is not determined by whether it is in your (or
anyone else's) vocabulary, or even whether you can find it in some
dictionary. As David Moser put it, "This gubblick contains many
nonsklarkish English flutzpahs, but its overall pluggandisp can be
glorked from context."
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
D. Stussy
news:00pml5p5cddi1f9du...@4ax.com...
If coupled with somewhere, wouldn't that be "somewhence?"
Whence - archiac: Referring to both when and where; in the sense of the
object's origin.
Robert Bannister
> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500:
>
>> James Hogg wrote:
>>> anal...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the
>>>> future".
>>>
>>> John Stuart Mill, Charles Kingsley and H. G. Wells have all
>>> used it as a word.
>>>
>>> Here's how the OED defines it:
>>>
>>> "At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other.
>>> Common in 19th cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or somehow."
>>>
>>> It's not very common today.
>
>> That's an understatement. I've never seen it.
>
> It's got to be a joke.
>
>
Why? Under the right circumstances, "somewhen" and "elsewhen" are useful
words. I haven't found uses for "anywhen" or "elsehow" yet.
--
Rob Bannister
Frank ess
I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE
as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable
combinations, anywhen(ever).
--
Frank ess
Eric Walker
[...]
> It's got to be a joke.
Not if one reads novels that posit time travel. All sorts of interesting
words become needful, as witness the title of such a novel, "The
Whenabouts of Burr".
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker, Owlcroft House
http://owlcroft.com/english/
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
"Somewhence" is known to the OED:
From some (indefinite) place; from somewhere or other.
It does not know "somehence", "somethence", "somethither" or
"somehither", but does know "somewhither":
1. In some direction.
2. To some place, = SOMEWHERE adv. 2.
Wood Avens
<spam+ne...@bde-arc.ampr.org> wrote:
Well, I know I've used it somewhere, somewhen, but I can't be more
precise than that.
So no, it wouldn't.
Chuck Riggs
AOL, plus I'm fairly sure I've seen "somewhen" in poetry.
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
Chuck Riggs
Else soever, too.
>I haven't found uses for "anywhen" or "elsehow" yet.
When do you want me to arrive? Anywhen will be fine.
James Hogg
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:47:38 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500:
>>>
>>>> James Hogg wrote:
>>>>> anal...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the
>>>>>> future".
>>>>> John Stuart Mill, Charles Kingsley and H. G. Wells have all
>>>>> used it as a word.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's how the OED defines it:
>>>>>
>>>>> "At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other.
>>>>> Common in 19th cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or somehow."
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not very common today.
>>>> That's an understatement. I've never seen it.
>>> It's got to be a joke.
>>>
>>>
>> Why? Under the right circumstances, "somewhen" and "elsewhen" are useful
>> words.
>
> Else soever, too.
>
>> I haven't found uses for "anywhen" or "elsehow" yet.
OED:
"elsehow. Obs. exc. dial.
In some, or any, other way."
> When do you want me to arrive? Anywhen will be fine.
OED:
"anywhen
Indefinite compound of when: At any time, ever. Rare in literature, but
common in southern dialects."
Used by Carlyle.
--
James
Evan Kirshenbaum
> "Somewhence" is known to the OED:
>
> From some (indefinite) place; from somewhere or other.
>
> It does not know "somehence", "somethence", "somethither" or
> "somehither", but does know "somewhither":
>
> 1. In some direction.
> 2. To some place, = SOMEWHERE adv. 2.
It's interesting that "somewhere" and "someplace" mean the same thing,
but "somewhat" and "something" don't anymore, at least in my dialect.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |ActiveX is pretty harmless anyway.
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |It can't affect you unless you
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |install Windows, and who would be
|foolish enough to do that?
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Peter Moylan
(650)857-7572
John Varela
wrote:
> I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE
> as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable
> combinations, anywhen(ever).
Does "elsethread" mean elsewhere in THIS thread, or somewhere in a
DIFFERENT thread? I think I've used it both ways.
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
Fred
"D. Stussy" <spam+ne...@bde-arc.ampr.org> wrote in message
news:hjg7mb$tfh$1...@snarked.org...
Sometime suits me. It's not a joke, I've seen it before, and I can
understand it.
Frank ess
John Varela wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:16:57 UTC, "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in
>> AUE as encouragement to develop and write any such easily
>> interperable combinations, anywhen(ever).
>
> Does "elsethread" mean elsewhere in THIS thread, or somewhere in a
> DIFFERENT thread? I think I've used it both ways.
I think I'd hear "in a DIFFERENT thread"; in THIS thread is "above".
--
Frank ess
Robert Bannister
> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:
>
>> "Somewhence" is known to the OED:
>>
>> From some (indefinite) place; from somewhere or other.
>>
>> It does not know "somehence", "somethence", "somethither" or
>> "somehither", but does know "somewhither":
>>
>> 1. In some direction.
>> 2. To some place, = SOMEWHERE adv. 2.
>
> It's interesting that "somewhere" and "someplace" mean the same thing,
> but "somewhat" and "something" don't anymore, at least in my dialect.
>
Not sure whether I'd ever use it myself, but I'm pretty sure "something"
(meaning 'a bit') wouldn't strike me as odd, though perhaps not as a
perfect substitute for "somewhat/rather". It seems most common before a
comparative.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
That is the beauty of all these types of word: they are all instantly
comprehensible and sound like real words.
--
Rob Bannister
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Peter Moylan
that means "upthread", sometimes "downthread", because by the time I
respond to something there will often have been contributions both above
and below. In any case, I avoid words like "above" in this context
because I know that the order of reception is different for different
people.
It had never occurred to me until now that the word was ambiguous. Now
that it's been pointed out, it's obvious. We need two new words, not one.
Steve Hayes
>I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE
>as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable
>combinations, anywhen(ever).
James Thurber, in his story "The white deer", uses the phrase "otherwhere than
here", followed shortly by "otherwhen than now".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Jerry Friedman
> James Silverton wrote:
> > Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500:
>
> >> James Hogg wrote:
> >>>> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the
> >>>> future".
>
> >>> John Stuart Mill, Charles Kingsley and H. G. Wells have all
> >>> used it as a word.
>
> >>> Here's how the OED defines it:
>
> >>> "At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other.
> >>> Common in 19th cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or somehow."
>
> >>> It's not very common today.
>
> >> That's an understatement. I've never seen it.
>
> > It's got to be a joke.
>
> Why? Under the right circumstances, "somewhen" and "elsewhen" are useful
> words. I haven't found uses for "anywhen" or "elsehow" yet.
"If you're not afraid of time travel, I'll take you anywhen you like."
"On your time machine, or elsehow?"
--
Jerry Friedman
sjde...@yahoo.com
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:16:57 UTC, "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE
> > as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable
> > combinations, anywhen(ever).
>
> Does "elsethread" mean elsewhere in THIS thread, or somewhere in a
> DIFFERENT thread? I think I've used it both ways.
I've always used it (and understood it to mean) elsewhere in this
thread.
sjde...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 16:22:22 -0800, "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >John Varela wrote:
> >> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:16:57 UTC, "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in
> >>> AUE as encouragement to develop and write any such easily
> >>> interperable combinations, anywhen(ever).
>
> >> Does "elsethread" mean elsewhere in THIS thread, or somewhere in a
> >> DIFFERENT thread? I think I've used it both ways.
>
> >I think I'd hear "in a DIFFERENT thread"; in THIS thread is "above".
>
> Or perhaps "upthread".
Those are too limiting--"elsethread" can refer to something found
above or below in the thread (or "upthread or downthread" if you
prefer). Indeed, I've usually used them when I can't recall exactly
where in the thread the reference occurred.
James Hogg
And anyone can utter such a word without ever having heard it, fondly
believing they have just coined it.
--
James
Chuck Riggs
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:
>
>> "Somewhence" is known to the OED:
>>
>> From some (indefinite) place; from somewhere or other.
>>
>> It does not know "somehence", "somethence", "somethither" or
>> "somehither", but does know "somewhither":
>>
>> 1. In some direction.
>> 2. To some place, = SOMEWHERE adv. 2.
>
>It's interesting that "somewhere" and "someplace" mean the same thing,
>but "somewhat" and "something" don't anymore, at least in my dialect.
It's also interesting that, of those, only "someplace" is chiefly AmE.
The other three are found in both BrE and AmE.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
Being neither well-defined nor universally understood, I think
"elsethread" is best avoided.
Chuck Riggs
If you've used the poorly-defined "elsethread" to mean that, why not
simply type, in future, "elsewhere in this thread", which will be
understood by all?
Chuck Riggs
<rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
What's a real word? If enough people use it, isn't it real enough?
John Varela
wrote:
>
>
> John Varela wrote:
> > On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:16:57 UTC, "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in
> >> AUE as encouragement to develop and write any such easily
> >> interperable combinations, anywhen(ever).
> >
> > Does "elsethread" mean elsewhere in THIS thread, or somewhere in a
> > DIFFERENT thread? I think I've used it both ways.
>
> I think I'd hear "in a DIFFERENT thread"; in THIS thread is "above".
Not necessarily. Some of the aue threads go for hundreds, even a
thousand posts, with scores of subthreads. The reference could be to
a remark in a subthread that is neither ancestral to nor descendent
from the current posting; it could be almost anywhere.
John Varela
wrote:
> It had never occurred to me until now that the word was ambiguous. Now
> that it's been pointed out, it's obvious. We need two new words, not one.
How about "elsethread" for somewhere in the tree descended from this
OP, and "otherthread" for a thread descended from a different OP.
"Above" would be restricted to a lineal ancestor of this posting.
I think I'll do that.
John Varela
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:16:57 -0800, "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com> wrote:
>
> >I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE
> >as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable
> >combinations, anywhen(ever).
>
> James Thurber, in his story "The white deer", uses the phrase "otherwhere than
> here", followed shortly by "otherwhen than now".
He was having fun with words, which is, after all, what we do here.
Robert Bannister
Perish the thought. There are many words, frequently uttered, especially
on television, that are definitely phoney. You only have to look at the
person saying them. Now of course, on AUE, most contributors are real
people, so their noncing about can easily result in real wordiness.
--
Rob Bannister
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
>On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 02:08:54 UTC, Peter Moylan <gro.nalyomp@retep>
>wrote:
>
>> It had never occurred to me until now that the word was ambiguous. Now
>> that it's been pointed out, it's obvious. We need two new words, not one.
>
>How about "elsethread" for somewhere in the tree descended from this
>OP, and "otherthread" for a thread descended from a different OP.
>"Above" would be restricted to a lineal ancestor of this posting.
>
>I think I'll do that.
How about "thisthread" and "otherthread"?
I have toyed with "intrathread" and "extrathread" but have not convinced
myself.
"inthread" / "outthread"?
Chuck Riggs
capabl...@gmail.com
> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future"
capabl...@gmail.com
And also in addition after reading further down the thread I'd like to make known that "anywhen" is also in every day usage in Hampshire/Wiltshire/New Forest area of England. Again, a word I had always used and heard while growing up in this area of the UK but not heard it used since moving to Bristol. I still use it as part of my dialect and as with "somewhen" it makes complete logical sense to me e.g.
"anywhen you want to chat give me a ring" "anywhen you want to collect that book just pop round".
Jerry Friedman
--
Jerry Friedman
David Kleinecke
need it."Whenever" for "anywhen".
Robert Bannister
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Jerry Friedman
Nehwon.
--
Jerry Friedman
Brian Austin
wormhole you might emerge 'somewhere else in space and somewhen else
in time'.
- Brian
On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 03:03:33 -0700 (PDT), capabl...@gmail.com
wrote:
>On Saturday, January 23, 2010 at 10:50:38 AM UTC, anal...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future"
>
>It is still commonly used along the South Coast of England and Isle of Wight. I am from Hampshire and "somewhen" is common parlance among old and young. It was only when I moved away from the area that people picked up on it or just laughed when they heard it. My understanding is it was commonly used more widely centuries ago but has died out in other areas but was retained in the Hampshire/Wiltshire/New Forest dialect. I now live in Bristol and they don't use it here. To me it is a natural word to use and completely logical as in "when are we going to town? When is that film on?" rather than "time are we going to town? time is that film on?" therefore someWHEN rather than someTIME.
>
>This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>http://www.avg.com
Sam Plusnet
> I remember Carl Sagan, in 'Cosmos', saying that if you went through a
> wormhole you might emerge 'somewhere else in space and somewhen else
> in time'.
>
To disagree.
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
wrote:
>I remember Carl Sagan, in 'Cosmos', saying that if you went through a
>wormhole you might emerge 'somewhere else in space and somewhen else
>in time'.
>
Would you be somewho else?