Fishcake
Simon R. Hughes
tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
American fishcakes like?
--
Simon R. Hughes -- http://www.geocities.com/a57998/subconscious/
<!--So much to do, so little time; so much time, so little done.-->
Tony Cooper
>
> As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake, and
> tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
> nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
> American fishcakes like?
> --
I can't tell you what American fishcakes are like since I
don't think there is a standard. Generally, in my
experience, from what I've seen, to the best of my
knowledge, and for what it's worth....I expect a fishcake
sandwich to be a roughly square piece of breaded fish. What
restaurants refer to (repeat weasel words) as "portion
control". They are purchased in frozen form (weasel again)
and heated for serving.
I have had fresh fishcakes in Chicago at Navy Pier, and in
Eastern cities like Baltimore and Boston. Also breaded, but
kind of a chopped up fish.
A (fresh) fish sandwich would be a filet of fish that is
either broiled or fried and either breaded or peppered. The
filet is irregular in shape, but the fishcake either
squarish or round.
Mustard on fish, though, is an appalling thought unless it's
herring.
Let the games begin.
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
Douwe Egbert
"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3C462008...@yahoo.com...
> "Simon R. Hughes" wrote:
> >
> > As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake, and
> > tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
> > nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
> > American fishcakes like?
> > --
>
> I can't tell you what American fishcakes are like since I
> don't think there is a standard. Generally, in my
> experience, from what I've seen, to the best of my
> knowledge, and for what it's worth....I expect a fishcake
> sandwich to be a roughly square piece of breaded fish. What
> restaurants refer to (repeat weasel words) as "portion
> control". They are purchased in frozen form (weasel again)
> and heated for serving.
What Tony describes here is not a "fishcake" but merely
a breaded piece of fish.
I would expect fish cakes, were they generally available
in the US (and as I recall they were not) to resemble
a crab cake with the obvious replacement of the major
ingredient.
--
D E
Douwe Egbert
jan sand
<shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake, and
>tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
>nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
>American fishcakes like?
>--
>Simon R. Hughes
My mother used to make fishcakes by mixing shredded fish with
breadcrumbs and egg and spices, parsely, chopped onion, garlic, and
whatever, The cakes were formed and then rolled in breadcrumbs and
fried, turning to get both sides properly browned.
Jan Sand
ntaylor
...I expect a fishcake
>sandwich to be a roughly square piece of breaded fish.
NT> How do you pronounce breaded?
I like to say "breeded" but the distaff insists
it is "bredded".
Tony Cooper
>
> "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3C462008...@yahoo.com...
> > "Simon R. Hughes" wrote:
> > >
> > > As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake, and
> > > tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
> > > nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
> > > American fishcakes like?
> > > --
> >
> > I can't tell you what American fishcakes are like since I
> > don't think there is a standard. Generally, in my
> > experience, from what I've seen, to the best of my
> > knowledge, and for what it's worth....I expect a fishcake
> > sandwich to be a roughly square piece of breaded fish. What
> > restaurants refer to (repeat weasel words) as "portion
> > control". They are purchased in frozen form (weasel again)
> > and heated for serving.
>
> What Tony describes here is not a "fishcake" but merely
> a breaded piece of fish.
Precisely why I weaseled. The only way to prompt an opinion
here seems to be to offer one so it can be contested.
> I would expect fish cakes, were they generally available
> in the US (and as I recall they were not) to resemble
> a crab cake with the obvious replacement of the major
> ingredient.
The question was "what is an American fishcake?" What I
described is what I would expect. You seem to agree while
disagreeing since you say we have no fishcakes. If we have
none, what we do have is something.
Douwe Egbert
"Tony Cooper" wrote
> The question was "what is an American fishcake?" What I
> described is what I would expect. You seem to agree while
> disagreeing since you say we have no fishcakes.
Not none, but few, and not widely available.
Bob Stahl
>Tony Cooper:
Yes, we have no fishcakes.
We have no fishcakes except Thai.
---
Bob Stahl
Richard Fontana
>As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake, and
>tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
>nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
>American fishcakes like?
The only fishcakes I have ever personally experienced were these frozen
pre-made fishcake things. These were round breaded things containing a
soft mashed-potatoey substance. I suspect there may have been some
fish-derived materials in them too. When I were a kid my mother bought
these things occasionally in an effort to find some sorts of foods all of
her children would be willing to eat. This was a long time ago.
I knew an Irish-American who gave me the impression that "fishcakes and
macaroni-'n'-cheese" was a traditional ethnic Irish or Irish-American
meal. I don't know if that was a different kind of fishcake or what.
R H Draney
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Simon R. Hughes" wrote:
>>
>> As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake, and
>> tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
>> nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
>> American fishcakes like?
>> --
>
>I can't tell you what American fishcakes are like since I
>don't think there is a standard.
There's the key phrase; all take note...we have fishcakes (or "fish
cakes") in the US but they vary greatly in almost every
characteristic....
What Richard describes are commercial frozen fish
cakes/sticks/portions...whatever fish is in them is pureed, and the
companies that sell them don't seem too particular about what type of
fish is used...a few of the more conscientious manufacturers will stop
the chopping process before the fish has become semi-liquid....
What jan sand describes is a staple in our family, but we call them
"salmon patties" (the pretentious prefer "croquettes")...the
obligatory ingredients are mashed tinned salmon, eggs, and something
starchy to bind it together, pan-fried in whatever sort of oil seems
appropriate at the time (I prefer olive myself)...the starch can come
from pulverized saltines, from uncooked oatmeal, from crumbled
Shredded Wheat cereal (tried it with Weetabix once and was
disappointed with the results), or smashed potato chips, among
others...additional ingredients have at various times included
sun-dried tomatoes, chopped mushrooms, diced green chilis, and
others....
> Generally, in my
>experience, from what I've seen, to the best of my
>knowledge, and for what it's worth....I expect a fishcake
>sandwich to be a roughly square piece of breaded fish. What
>restaurants refer to (repeat weasel words) as "portion
>control". They are purchased in frozen form (weasel again)
>and heated for serving.
>
>I have had fresh fishcakes in Chicago at Navy Pier, and in
>Eastern cities like Baltimore and Boston. Also breaded, but
>kind of a chopped up fish.
>
>A (fresh) fish sandwich would be a filet of fish that is
>either broiled or fried and either breaded or peppered. The
>filet is irregular in shape, but the fishcake either
>squarish or round.
>
>Mustard on fish, though, is an appalling thought unless it's
>herring.
Are sardines a sort of herring?...a recent store special on the best
brand of sardine offered me the choice of fish packed in spring water,
in oil, in mustard, in tomato sauce, and in jalapeño salsa....
>Let the games begin.
Food thread...now we're getting somewhere....r
--
It ain't over till the fat lady chokes on a chicken bone.
Bob Stahl
> Food thread...now we're getting somewhere....
I was wondering how Simon could keep his hands on his buns and still
type.
Also wondering about the Dijon thing. We're (almost) always proud of our
respective domestic foods, but an imported condiment seems to be a
necessary counterpoint these days.
Has anybody else noticed mayonnaise on their sushi recently?
---
Bob Stahl
Pat Durkin
"R H Draney" <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3c46631e....@news.earthlink.net...
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:51:20 -0500, Tony Cooper
> <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >"Simon R. Hughes" wrote:
> >>
> >> As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake,
and
> >> tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
> >> nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
> >> American fishcakes like?
> >> --
> >
> >I can't tell you what American fishcakes are like since I
> >don't think there is a standard.
>
> There's the key phrase; all take note...we have fishcakes (or "fish
> cakes") in the US but they vary greatly in almost every
> characteristic....
> What jan sand describes is a staple in our family, but we call them
> "salmon patties" (the pretentious prefer "croquettes")...the
> obligatory ingredients are mashed tinned salmon, eggs, and something
> starchy to bind it together, pan-fried in whatever sort of oil seems
> appropriate at the time (I prefer olive myself)...the starch can
come
> from pulverized saltines, from uncooked oatmeal, from crumbled
> Shredded Wheat cereal (tried it with Weetabix once and was
> disappointed with the results), or smashed potato chips, among
> others...additional ingredients have at various times included
> sun-dried tomatoes, chopped mushrooms, diced green chilis, and
> others....
I agree that salmon patties are fish cakes. We had them often in the
good old days (also salmon loaf, both products made from canned
salmon).
In the more distant days of my youth, there were cod cakes,
commercially packed in little wooden crates. I don't recall ever
seeing the individual containers, but I believe they were simply
wrapped in paper. These were made from salt cod, or "bacalao", if you
will, so needed no further preserving. Mother would break them into
their component shreds and cook them up in a cream sauce for serving
over mashed potatoes, or sometimes with macaroni. They were very
salty.
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>
>What Tony describes here is not a "fishcake" but merely
>a breaded piece of fish.
But often called fish sticks, and I'm pretty sure I've heard them
called fishcakes in America.
>I would expect fish cakes, were they generally available
>in the US (and as I recall they were not) to resemble
>a crab cake with the obvious replacement of the major
>ingredient.
I first read Simon's fishcake as *being* a crabcake, until I realised
the biological problem. There is nothing as good as the crabcakes from
Maryland.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake, and
>tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
>nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
>American fishcakes like?
What I'm now wondering is what a British fishcake is like. You *slice*
a fishcake? That is totally unheard of in America. We wouldn't
normally put mustard on fishcakes either, which goes without saying
(`cept Tony already said it).
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
Fontana) wrote:
>I knew an Irish-American who gave me the impression that "fishcakes and
>macaroni-'n'-cheese" was a traditional ethnic Irish or Irish-American
>meal. I don't know if that was a different kind of fishcake or what.
My mother, who's of Irish extraction, often served this combination,
although calling them "fish sticks". The two go very nicely together
and was a favourite lunch in my family. In this case, ketchup goes on
the fish, not tartare sauce.
Charles Riggs
Richard Fontana
Interesting. It occurs to me anyway that some Irish-Americans of a
Catholic religious persuasion might have served fish
cakes-and-macaroni-'n'-cheese on meatless Fridays.
To me "fish sticks" are different from "fish cakes". But the only fish
sticks I was ever familiar with were, as with fish cakes, those frozen
supermarket things. I'm also familiar with salmon croquettes and the like
as well as crab cakes and the like but I see those as different aminals.
Simon R. Hughes
> "Simon R. Hughes" wrote:
> >
> > As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake, and
> > tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
> > nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
> > American fishcakes like?
> > --
>
> I can't tell you what American fishcakes are like since I
> don't think there is a standard. Generally, in my
> experience, from what I've seen, to the best of my
> knowledge, and for what it's worth....I expect a fishcake
> sandwich to be a roughly square piece of breaded fish. What
> restaurants refer to (repeat weasel words) as "portion
> control". They are purchased in frozen form (weasel again)
> and heated for serving.
That sounds like a fish sandwich in Britain.
> I have had fresh fishcakes in Chicago at Navy Pier, and in
> Eastern cities like Baltimore and Boston. Also breaded, but
> kind of a chopped up fish.
That sounds like a fishcake in Britain.
> A (fresh) fish sandwich would be a filet of fish that is
> either broiled or fried and either breaded or peppered. The
> filet is irregular in shape, but the fishcake either
> squarish or round.
Do you use "cake" to refer to the shape of a piece of reconstituted
fish?
> Mustard on fish, though, is an appalling thought unless it's
> herring.
Salted cod is eaten with mustard in France, but not in Norway. The
mustard on the sandwich was my own idea, and rather a successful
one, in my opinion.
> Let the games begin.
--
Simon R. Hughes
> R H Draney:
> > Food thread...now we're getting somewhere....
>
> I was wondering how Simon could keep his hands on his buns and still
> type.
I'm not as acrobatic as some of you Americans apparently are. I put
the sandwich down, and typed in the usual manner.
> Also wondering about the Dijon thing. We're (almost) always proud of our
> respective domestic foods, but an imported condiment seems to be a
> necessary counterpoint these days.
>
> Has anybody else noticed mayonnaise on their sushi recently?
You're just trying to get me back for the cooked bullshit crack,
aren't you?
Simon R. Hughes
I was eating Norwegian fishcakes, which are made primarily from
haddock (the cheapest white fish around here), which is minced a
number of times, with salt and potato-flour (corn-flour is probably
just as good), mixed with milk (nutmeg to taste), formed into cakes,
and shallow-fried in lard or butter. The consistency is like a fish
pudding (timbale), but the taste is not so bland, because they are
fried, not boiled or baked.
Note that there are no breadcumbs in Norwegian fishcakes.
If anyone is interested, I can post a recipe; I must warn, however,
that it is a messy one.
British fishcakes are much as the salmon fritters various people
have described.
I thought it was well established that Dijon mustard (it has to be
French) goes with fish (but then, I may be addicted to the stuff, so
don't quote me as an authority).
The sandwiches were completely my own design, and I take full
responsibility for their vulgarity.
Laura F Spira
>
> Thus Spake Charles Riggs:
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 00:30:22 +0100, Simon R. Hughes
> > <shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
> >
> > >As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake, and
> > >tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
> > >nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
> > >American fishcakes like?
> >
> > What I'm now wondering is what a British fishcake is like. You *slice*
> > a fishcake? That is totally unheard of in America. We wouldn't
> > normally put mustard on fishcakes either, which goes without saying
> > (`cept Tony already said it).
>
> I was eating Norwegian fishcakes, which are made primarily from
> haddock (the cheapest white fish around here), which is minced a
> number of times, with salt and potato-flour (corn-flour is probably
> just as good), mixed with milk (nutmeg to taste), formed into cakes,
> and shallow-fried in lard or butter. The consistency is like a fish
> pudding (timbale), but the taste is not so bland, because they are
> fried, not boiled or baked.
>
>
Very much like my mother's recipe, except we mince an onion in with the
fish, use matzoh meal instead of potato flour, and add egg instead of
milk (holds the mixture together). Very nice fried (in oil) and eaten
warm or cold, and can also be poached to make gefulte fish balls (or
quenelles if you're posh).
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Frances Kemmish
>
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:23:40 +1100, "Douwe Egbert" <Do...@wassup.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >What Tony describes here is not a "fishcake" but merely
> >a breaded piece of fish.
>
> But often called fish sticks, and I'm pretty sure I've heard them
> called fishcakes in America.
>
Fish sticks are called "fish fingers" in England; they are usually
some kind of white fish, covered in breadcrumbs. Fishcakes usually
have fish mixed with some kind of starch (potato, flour, or fresh
breadcrumbs), a binder like egg, and are then covered in breadcrumbs.
> >I would expect fish cakes, were they generally available
> >in the US (and as I recall they were not) to resemble
> >a crab cake with the obvious replacement of the major
> >ingredient.
>
> I first read Simon's fishcake as *being* a crabcake, until I realised
> the biological problem. There is nothing as good as the crabcakes from
> Maryland.
>
Fran
Alan Jones
"Charles Riggs" <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:nmtc4uc01hau231ag...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 00:30:22 +0100, Simon R. Hughes
> <shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>
> What I'm now wondering is what a British fishcake is like. You *slice*
> a fishcake? That is totally unheard of in America.
It's essentially mashed or squashed boiled potato mixed with cooked flaked
fish, formed into a squat cylinder about four inches across and
three-quarters of an inch deep, and shallow-fried until golden-brown. One
adds flavouring to taste: butter, salt and pepper, plenty of finely-chopped
parsley etc. That's all. A cookery book might instruct you to use a beaten
egg to bind the mixture and to coat the cakes with egg-and-breadcrumb before
frying, but really fishcakes are no more than a quick and easy way of using
up surplus cooked fish and potato. Readymade fishcakes of this kind, often
using salmon, are a supermarket staple (chilled or frozen) and will be eaten
by children who won't touch what they recognise as fish.
I've never heard of slicing UK fishcakes, but the texture would permit it.
The American recipes sound much more like real cookery, quite different from
our leftovers concoction - which nevertheless in its way can be very tasty
and certainly filling.
Alan Jones
B Briggs
> Charles Riggs wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:23:40 +1100, "Douwe Egbert" <Do...@wassup.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What Tony describes here is not a "fishcake" but merely
>>>a breaded piece of fish.
>>>
>>But often called fish sticks, and I'm pretty sure I've heard them
>>called fishcakes in America.
>>
>>
>
> Fish sticks are called "fish fingers" in England; they are usually
> some kind of white fish, covered in breadcrumbs. Fishcakes usually
> have fish mixed with some kind of starch (potato, flour, or fresh
> breadcrumbs), a binder like egg, and are then covered in breadcrumbs.
>
>
That is what a fish cake would be in the US also. Salmon Patties were a
staple of my youth(fish on Friday). Salmon was more plentiful then. Are
fish cakes available from the market in the UK? We can buy fish sticks
and the square breaded fish fillets that Tony mentioned, but I have
never seen ready made fish cakes available. I do recall seeing pre-made
crab cakes.
Barbara
Tony Cooper
> Do you use "cake" to refer to the shape of a piece of reconstituted
> fish?
No, but then the situation's never come up. I can go for
days at a time without thinking or speaking of reconstituted
fish.
Bob Stahl
>Bob Stahl:
....
>>Also wondering about the Dijon thing. We're (almost) always
>>proud of our respective domestic foods, but an imported
>>condiment seems to be a necessary counterpoint these days.
>>Has anybody else noticed mayonnaise on their sushi recently?
>You're just trying to get me back for the cooked bullshit
>crack, aren't you?
Don't recall that. Anyhow, we were talking fish. I was noticing
recently that some sushi bars are playing fast and loose with
mayonnaise-like sauces.
Now I find that there is such a thing as "sushi mayonnaise"
(_Tamago-no-moto_):
http://www.rain.org/~hutch/mayo.html
================================================================
3 egg yolks
1/2 teaspoon lemon juice
1-1/2 oz (50 g) white miso *
1 cup salad oil
salt to taste
sprinkle of white pepper
a pinch of grated yuzu**, lime, or lemon peel
* miso is salty paste of fermented soy beans. It is available
in Asian markets and some health food stores. White miso is
used for soups and dressings.
** yuzu is a Japanese orange used only for its rind. Kaffir
lime used in Thai or Malaysian food is an alternative, as is
lemon or lime rind.
Beat the egg yolks and lemon juice with a wooden spoon in a bowl.
Continue to beat, adding the salad oil a few drops at a time
until the mixture begins to emulsify. Keep on adding the rest of
the oil, then stir in the miso and the seasonings.
Refrigerate in a squeeze bottle.
================================================================
Looks like a standard mayo, with the addition of miso.
I've been served sushi in a few places that had this crap
smeared on, and the taste just isn't right. Just wondering
if it's becoming widespread.
(Ignore if you don't indulge in raw fish.)
---
Bob Stahl
Simon R. Hughes
> "Simon R. Hughes" wrote:
> > Do you use "cake" to refer to the shape of a piece of reconstituted
> > fish?
>
> No, but then the situation's never come up. I can go for
> days at a time without thinking or speaking of reconstituted
> fish.
Are you sure you visited Bergen? And your mind was not enlightened
by the fish square?
Bob Stahl
>....The American recipes sound much more like real cookery,
>quite different from our leftovers concoction - which
>nevertheless in its way can be very tasty and certainly
>filling.
US recipes for this kind of thing -- other than for crab
cakes -- are unknown to me. I imagine it might be more
familiar in Asian-American homes or restaurants, but I
think we're all too spoiled with the huge variety of
fresh fish available here to think of crumbling it up or
jelling it, for the most part.
Fish sticks are an exception, but no one would make them
at home, and they're mostly for kids. I haven't eaten one
since Hector was a pup.
---
Bob Stahl
Pat Durkin
"Bob Stahl" <urbul...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:oxD18.33984$Uo5.91...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Alan Jones:
> >....The American recipes sound much more like real cookery,
> >quite different from our leftovers concoction - which
> >nevertheless in its way can be very tasty and certainly
> >filling.
>
> US recipes for this kind of thing -- other than for crab
> cakes -- are unknown to me. I imagine it might be more
> familiar in Asian-American homes or restaurants,
> think we're all too spoiled with the huge variety of
> fresh fish available here to think of crumbling it up or
We? Think... not just availability (do you fish the ocean for your
own?), but cost, please.
In the Midwest, $3 to $4 per lb of frozen codfish (a higher price for
codfish "loins"), and at least that much for fresh fish (pink, or dog
salmon, mind you, and farm-raised at that).
And that is "seafood". Fresh-water fish (unless one catches one's
own) is in the same range, again, including farmed fish.
As a single person on a budget, I eat a lot of canned fish, saving the
frozen for special treats. I hope that when I eat in a restaurant I
am selecting "fresh" fish, but accepting that the "Friday night fish"
are frozen.
I eat the frozen filets and fish sticks, and try to select those that
are cut from the fish, rather than minced and reconstituted, but
sometimes I get the wrong brand. Most of the brands in this category
claim to use whitefish and pollock.
Bob Stahl
>Bob Stahl:
> > US recipes for this kind of thing -- other than for crab
> > cakes -- are unknown to me. I imagine it might be more
> > familiar in Asian-American homes or restaurants,
> **but I
> > think we're all too spoiled with the huge variety of
> > fresh fish available here to think of crumbling it up or
> > jelling it, for the most part.**
> We? Think... not just availability (do you fish the ocean
> for your own?), but cost, please.
Insert [around SF].
Chicken I get frozen, but fresh fish is cheap.
---
Bob Stahl
Robert Bannister
> "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3C462008...@yahoo.com...
> > "Simon R. Hughes" wrote:
> > >
> > > As I eat my fishcake sandwiches (Dijon mustard, sliced fishcake, and
> > > tomato), knowing fully well that the fishcakes I am enjoying are
> > > nothing like those grown in the UK, a thought struck me: what are
> > > American fishcakes like?
> > > --
> >
> > I can't tell you what American fishcakes are like since I
> > don't think there is a standard. Generally, in my
> > experience, from what I've seen, to the best of my
> > knowledge, and for what it's worth....I expect a fishcake
> > sandwich to be a roughly square piece of breaded fish. What
> > restaurants refer to (repeat weasel words) as "portion
> > control". They are purchased in frozen form (weasel again)
> > and heated for serving.
>
> What Tony describes here is not a "fishcake" but merely
> a breaded piece of fish.
>
> I would expect fish cakes, were they generally available
> in the US (and as I recall they were not) to resemble
> a crab cake with the obvious replacement of the major
> ingredient.
I would expect a fish cake to be the fish equivalent of a rissole or
hamburger, ie containing bread and/or egg to bind it. Then there are the UK
frozen fish cakes - something closer to fish than plain bread or fish
fingers, but not very close.
--
Rob Bannister
Tony Cooper
>
> Thus Spake Tony Cooper:
> > "Simon R. Hughes" wrote:
> > > Do you use "cake" to refer to the shape of a piece of reconstituted
> > > fish?
> >
> > No, but then the situation's never come up. I can go for
> > days at a time without thinking or speaking of reconstituted
> > fish.
>
> Are you sure you visited Bergen? And your mind was not enlightened
> by the fish square?
I did not dine in Bergen. They stamped my passport,
though. They said it wasn't necessary, but I asked them
to.
Tony Cooper
> As a single person on a budget, I eat a lot of canned fish, saving the
> frozen for special treats. I hope that when I eat in a restaurant I
> am selecting "fresh" fish, but accepting that the "Friday night fish"
> are frozen.
>
Canned fish? Other than sardines, tuna or salmon?
Richard Fontana
> Pat Durkin wrote:
> > As a single person on a budget, I eat a lot of canned fish, saving the
> > frozen for special treats. I hope that when I eat in a restaurant I
> > am selecting "fresh" fish, but accepting that the "Friday night fish"
> > are frozen.
> >
>
> Canned fish? Other than sardines, tuna or salmon?
How about anchovies? (If we can speak of those tinned sardines as
"canned fish" then the same courtesy must be extended to the
anchovies.)
Spehro Pefhany
> Pat Durkin wrote:
>> As a single person on a budget, I eat a lot of canned fish, saving the
>> frozen for special treats. I hope that when I eat in a restaurant I
>> am selecting "fresh" fish, but accepting that the "Friday night fish"
>> are frozen.
>>
> Canned fish? Other than sardines, tuna or salmon?
Kippers? Smoked mackerel? Gefilte fish? Pickled herring rollmops? The
latter are particularly delicious with raw onion served as an open-faced
sandwich, assuming you are living alone or sharing the food and not
expecting to meet anybody else in the next few days. And, of course,
there is canned lutefisk. The Gefilte fish and herring are normally in
jars, but that's "canning" too, right? If you include shellfish, there is
canned crab meat and probably others- I believe I've seen crayfish
("crawfish") and canned lobster is definitely available.
Best regards,
--
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Frances Kemmish
You throw leftovers away rather than using them up for the next day's
lunch or dinner? You must be one of the rich folks.
Pat Durkin
"Spehro Pefhany" <sp...@interlog.com> wrote in message
news:agK18.151$g0b...@news1.bloor.is...
> The renowned Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Pat Durkin wrote:
> >> As a single person on a budget, I eat a lot of canned fish,
saving the
> >> frozen for special treats. I hope that when I eat in a
restaurant I
> >> am selecting "fresh" fish, but accepting that the "Friday night
fish"
> >> are frozen.
> >>
>
> > Canned fish? Other than sardines, tuna or salmon?
>
> Kippers? Smoked mackerel? Gefilte fish? Pickled herring rollmops?
The
> latter are particularly delicious with raw onion served as an
open-faced
> sandwich, assuming you are living alone or sharing the food and not
> expecting to meet anybody else in the next few days. And, of course,
> there is canned lutefisk. The Gefilte fish and herring are normally
in
> jars, but that's "canning" too, right? If you include shellfish,
there is
> canned crab meat and probably others- I believe I've seen crayfish
> ("crawfish") and canned lobster is definitely available.
Jack mackerel is another cheap brand, besides the pink salmon and
light tuna. (Again, I may indulge in red [sockeye] salmon, and white
albacore tuna, but not on a very regular basis.)
Thanks for the list, Spehro. As long as we get into non-fish seafood,
of course there are smoked oysters. I adore pickled herring (or
herring cutlets), which I expect are your "rollmops". I get them
sometimes in jars, sometimes in plastic tubs, and I understand there
are a few stores in which they are still sold in bulk, or "pick your
own out of a barrel". Still, again, they are an infrequent treat.
Bob Stahl
>You throw leftovers away rather than using them up
>for the next day's lunch or dinner? You must be one
>of the rich folks.
Did I say that?
If I buy a whole salmon, I make soup stock from the head and tail ends,
cut the rest into steaks, and what I don't need goes into the fridge or
the freezer. Leftovers would go into scrambled eggs, hashed with
potatoes, or mix it with mayonnaise and mustard for a sandwich spread.
Usually I buy cut steaks or rockfish filets, and only what I need. Leave
some for the cat, of course.
No homemade fishcakes here. Not one.
The only time I made crabcakes was on a vacation in Kitty Hawk. Found a
warehouse where they shell those dinky little crabs they have out there.
I wouldn't fry Dungeness crab or rock crab, other than with scrambled
eggs. Might put it in pasta sauce.
---
Bob Stahl
Bob Stahl
>Jack mackerel is another cheap brand, besides the pink salmon
>and light tuna. (Again, I may indulge in red [sockeye] salmon,
>and white albacore tuna, but not on a very regular basis.)
>Thanks for the list, Spehro. As long as we get into non-fish
>seafood, of course there are smoked oysters. I adore pickled
>herring (or herring cutlets), which I expect are your "rollmops".
>I get them sometimes in jars, sometimes in plastic tubs, and I
>understand there are a few stores in which they are still sold
>in bulk, or "pick your own out of a barrel". Still, again,
>they are an infrequent treat.
There's a small but thriving herring fishery in the bays here. Had some
Dutch-Jewish friends who used to have a little herring festival in the
spring, and they pickled it five different ways. The delis sell pickled
herring by the pound, but that may be Atlantic herring.
Most of the herring here is sold to the Japanese, for the roe. It's a
type of sushi I've come to like. When there's a big herring run, I
sometimes gather the roe on the seaweed along the Sausalito shore, where
the bay is fairly clean.
---
Bob Stahl
Tony Cooper
I thought anchovies came in pizza boxes.
Is there a difference between tinned and canned? What's the
key to difference?
Pat Durkin
Well, they stopped attaching the key to "Norwegian sild" ( in mustard
or in oil) and to those large elliptical sardine cans, (or tins, if
you will).
Richard Fontana
> Richard Fontana wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> > > Pat Durkin wrote:
> > > > As a single person on a budget, I eat a lot of canned fish, saving the
> > > > frozen for special treats. I hope that when I eat in a restaurant I
> > > > am selecting "fresh" fish, but accepting that the "Friday night fish"
> > > > are frozen.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Canned fish? Other than sardines, tuna or salmon?
> >
> > How about anchovies? (If we can speak of those tinned sardines as
> > "canned fish" then the same courtesy must be extended to the
> > anchovies.)
>
> I thought anchovies came in pizza boxes.
>
> Is there a difference between tinned and canned? What's the
> key to difference?
For me, it's the shape of the container.
Pat Durkin
> Pat Durkin:
I adore pickled
> >herring (or herring cutlets), which I expect are your "rollmops".
> >I get them sometimes in jars, sometimes in plastic tubs, and I
> >understand there are a few stores in which they are still sold
> >in bulk, or "pick your own out of a barrel". Still, again,
> >they are an infrequent treat.
>
> There's a small but thriving herring fishery in the bays here. Had
some
> Dutch-Jewish friends who used to have a little herring festival in
the
> spring, and they pickled it five different ways. The delis sell
pickled
> herring by the pound, but that may be Atlantic herring.
>
> Most of the herring here is sold to the Japanese, for the roe. It's
a
> type of sushi I've come to like. When there's a big herring run, I
> sometimes gather the roe on the seaweed along the Sausalito shore,
where
> the bay is fairly clean.
On a visit to S.E. Alaska, I observed that at least once a day small
planes landed in the bay at the fish packing plant. It was my
understanding that they took just the herring roe. I doubt they could
fly all the way to Japan, so am still up in the air, so to speak, as
to how fresh the Japanese like their roe, or whether they salt and can
it as the Russians do their caviar. I assume the small planes find a
"mother ship" onto which to offload their precious cargo.
Southeast, as they call it, shares the West Coast Marine climate
common to Seattle, and Vancouver, so I can imagine the herring harvest
runs nearly year-round.
(or : how often is there a herring run in Sausalito? and: are
grunions the same thing as herring?)
Tony Cooper
> > Is there a difference between tinned and canned? What's the
> > key to difference?
>
> For me, it's the shape of the container.
At one time, things in a tin can were referred as "tinned",
as in "tinned peaches". "Canned" things were in glass jars
as in "canned tomatoes". One purchased the tinned goods,
but made the canned goods. At least, in Indianapolis within
hearing range of my mother.
Skitt
"Richard Fontana" <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.020117...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu...
A can can be tinned. Of course, so can a tin. But a tin can't be canned.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).
Douwe Egbert
iwasaki
> [...]
> Looks like a standard mayo, with the addition of miso.
>
> I've been served sushi in a few places that had this crap
> smeared on, and the taste just isn't right. Just wondering
> if it's becoming widespread.
Do you remember on what kind of sushi they put the
miso-mayonnaise? It's not uncommon here that sushi wrapped
around with nori have tuna salad or crab salad with mayonnaise
on them, but I haven't come across sushi with miso-mayonnaise.
(From several English websites written about Japanese mayonnaise,
I got the impression that Japanese-brand mayo (the standard one,
not miso-mayonnaise) tastes a bit different from "Western" mayo.
Is that true?)
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Charles Riggs
It depends more on the country in which the container is purchased.
Charles Riggs
Richard Fontana
Yes, that's the main thing, but I contend that most Americans recognize
some relevant use of "tin".
Franke
iwasaki wrote:
> "Bob Stahl" <urbul...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:rwB18.33924$FQ.896...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> > [...]
> > Looks like a standard mayo, with the addition of miso.
> >
> > I've been served sushi in a few places that had this crap
> > smeared on, and the taste just isn't right. Just wondering
> > if it's becoming widespread.
>
> Do you remember on what kind of sushi they put the
> miso-mayonnaise? It's not uncommon here that sushi wrapped
> around with nori have tuna salad or crab salad with mayonnaise
> on them, but I haven't come across sushi with miso-mayonnaise.
So, desu ne. Tokyo de tsunaonigiri wo yoku tabeta.
> (From several English websites written about Japanese mayonnaise,
> I got the impression that Japanese-brand mayo (the standard one,
> not miso-mayonnaise) tastes a bit different from "Western" mayo.
> Is that true?)
Yes, but it's closer to Western mayo than Taiwanese mayo.
mplsray
> Richard Fontana wrote:
>
> > > Is there a difference between tinned and canned? What's the
> > > key to difference?
> >
> > For me, it's the shape of the container.
>
> At one time, things in a tin can were referred as "tinned",
> as in "tinned peaches". "Canned" things were in glass jars
> as in "canned tomatoes". One purchased the tinned goods,
> but made the canned goods. At least, in Indianapolis within
> hearing range of my mother.
>
Nowadays, around here (the Minneapolis-St. Paul Metro Area) a "can" is a
sealed metal container which is usually opened with a can opener, while a
"tin" is a metal container with a lid, either one with a hinged lid--such as
the small rectangular metal boxes that mints are sold in-or with a lid which
can be completely removed--such as those enameled tins that Danish assorted
cookies come in. Until recently, neither of these type of tins could be put
in can recycling bins--they damaged the machines that processed the cans
(what "process" means here I don't know exactly). However, I have recently
read that the machines have been improved and can handle the smaller tins,
but not the Danish cookie tins.
(There are other sorts of cans: the cardboard containers that Pringles
Potato Crisps come in and those that hold Planter's Cheese Balls, but that's
something else completely, of course. And there are more and more cans which
can be opened with a pull tab.)
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Joe Manfre
I also tend to use "tin" to refer to not-very-tall rectangular cans.
For example, I've been known to speak of "tins of Altoids". However,
when reading Usenet in console mode, I tend to use "slrn".
JM
--
807
Richard Fontana
Heh heh. Thi's prove's you are a newbie. ;-)
Bob Stahl
>iwasaki:
>>Bob Stahl:
>>>[...]
>>>Looks like a standard mayo, with the addition of miso.
>>>I've been served sushi in a few places that had this crap
>>>smeared on, and the taste just isn't right. Just wondering
>>>if it's becoming widespread.
>>Do you remember on what kind of sushi they put the
>>miso-mayonnaise? It's not uncommon here that sushi wrapped
>>around with nori have tuna salad or crab salad with mayonnaise
>>on them, but I haven't come across sushi with miso-mayonnaise.
>So, desu ne. Tokyo de tsunaonigiri wo yoku tabeta.
>>(From several English websites written about Japanese
>>mayonnaise, I got the impression that Japanese-brand mayo
>>(the standard one, not miso-mayonnaise) tastes a bit different
>>from "Western" mayo. Is that true?)
>Yes, but it's closer to Western mayo than Taiwanese mayo.
I don't really know what kinds of mayonnaise the sushi places
are using -- I ran across that miso-mayonnaise recipe as one
of the first Google hits. I make mayonnaise all the time, but
both the idea and the taste of it in sushi is strange to me.
The first time I noticed it was about ten years ago, at a
restaurant said "Japanese" on the front, but after we were
sitting for a while we noticed calendars, etc. that were
obviously Korean. (Most places that serve sushi here also
have table service, by the way.) They used the mayo in nigiri
between the fish and the rice, in place of wasabi. It was
truly horrible -- it gave a sweet, stale, oily taste to the
fresh fish.
I like Korean food, and I wish they would specialize in
their own cuisine! No need to ruin sushi for American tastes.
The next place I noticed it was in one of those places that
has the little wooden boats going around and around in a
trough on an oval counter, where the chefs keep replacing
plates on the boats for the customers to grab as they go by.
The mayo was in battleship-wrap sushi -- where they chop the
ingredients finely, mix it with a sauce, and place it in a
short cylindrical wrap of nori with rice in the bottom.
I couldn't even identify what kind of seafood was mixed with
the sauce -- the taste of the mayonnaise overpowered it.
I have two older books on sushi, and a new one on vegetarian
sushi, and none of them mention mayonnaise. Perhaps it's
become a habit to make sushi more appealing to Western
tastes, but I prefer traditional ingredients.
---
Bob Stahl
Frances Kemmish
>
> Frances Kemmish wrote:
>
> > Charles Riggs wrote:
> >
> >>On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:23:40 +1100, "Douwe Egbert" <Do...@wassup.com>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>What Tony describes here is not a "fishcake" but merely
> >>>a breaded piece of fish.
> >>>
> >>called fishcakes in America.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Fish sticks are called "fish fingers" in England; they are usually
> > some kind of white fish, covered in breadcrumbs. Fishcakes usually
> > have fish mixed with some kind of starch (potato, flour, or fresh
> > breadcrumbs), a binder like egg, and are then covered in breadcrumbs.
> >
> >
>
> That is what a fish cake would be in the US also. Salmon Patties were a
> staple of my youth(fish on Friday). Salmon was more plentiful then. Are
> fish cakes available from the market in the UK? We can buy fish sticks
> and the square breaded fish fillets that Tony mentioned, but I have
> never seen ready made fish cakes available. I do recall seeing pre-made
> crab cakes.
>
Fishcakes were available from the grocery store, and even from some
fish and chip shops when I was young. I never cared much for them. We
can get them here in Connecticut, ready-made, from the fish counter at
Stop'n'Shop.
FRan
Spehro Pefhany
> I like Korean food, and I wish they would specialize in
> their own cuisine! No need to ruin sushi for American tastes.
MANY of the "Japanese" restaurants in Toronto are run by
Koreans, just as many of the "Thai" restaurants are run by
Chinese. It's a marketing decision- 20 years ago the Cantonese
were all opening Szechuan restaurants. They often have economical
and tasty Korean dishes on the menu, though in at least one
I've seen them shown only in Korean (I recognized some of my
favourites). Korean food does not appeal to many Westerners, if
my limited sucess at getting friends to go for Korean is any
indication.
I do like the spicy (raw) tuna sushi, but I'm not sure if that
is an authentic Japanese type or a Korean adaptation. It's
delicious in any case.
I've not noticed this mayonaise yet.
Franke
Bob Stahl wrote:
Maybe this is what that Taiwanese poster meant in his question about
finding bits and pieces of American culture here. You can buy Hellmans/
Best Foods mayo here, but it's made in Taiwan for Taiwanese tastes
and that means lots of sugar. Yuk!
In Tokyo I used to get tunafish sushi either in a roll or in
nori-wrapped
onigiri. But the tuna was canned tuna and not fresh. It had Japanese
mayo
on it. I sometimes get that here in Taiwan too. It isn't the greatest,
but it's
quick and cheap enough.
I've never heard of misomayo, though. It sounds awful.
Bob Stahl
>....In Tokyo I used to get tunafish sushi either in a roll
>or in nori-wrapped onigiri. But the tuna was canned tuna
>and not fresh. It had Japanese mayo on it. I sometimes get
>that here in Taiwan too. It isn't the greatest, but it's
>quick and cheap enough.
>I've never heard of misomayo, though. It sounds awful.
The kind of sushi you're describing sounds like a corner-shop fast-food
adaptation -- I probably wouldn't mind a little mayo on it to freshen up
canned tuna. But if you're "going out to eat" you'd expect something
more authentic.
Rules were made to be broken, though. My general rule when getting
"ethnic" food is to stick to ethnic restaurants, but the best fish and
chips (or at least what I take to be most authentic) in San Francisco is
a place owned by some Chinese in the Tenderloin, around the corner from
the Edinburgh Castle. You can sit in the pub and ask the barman to order
it while you sip your pint, and they'll bring it over wrapped in
newspaper. The Bank of Ireland downtown is excellent, and the Mayflower
up in San Rafael isn't bad, but I usually just get Scotch eggs up there.
I'm already getting a little peckish... where can I get a decent
fishcake around here, I wonder?
---
Bob Stahl
R J Valentine
...
} I also tend to use "tin" to refer to not-very-tall rectangular cans.
} For example, I've been known to speak of "tins of Altoids". However,
} when reading Usenet in console mode, I tend to use "slrn".
I use "tin" for both. Also for baking pies and seasoning soldering irons.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
10 2 4
Charles Riggs
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Charles Riggs wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:18:39 -0500, Richard Fontana
>> <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>> >> Is there a difference between tinned and canned? What's the
>> >> key to difference?
>> >
>> >For me, it's the shape of the container.
>>
>> It depends more on the country in which the container is purchased.
>
>Yes, that's the main thing, but I contend that most Americans recognize
>some relevant use of "tin".
Now I'm with you, and that is in the back of my mind as well. Can we
recall an example?
Charles Riggs
iwasaki
> Franke:
> >iwasaki:
> >>Bob Stahl:
> >>>[...]
> >>>Looks like a standard mayo, with the addition of miso.
> >>>I've been served sushi in a few places that had this crap
> >>>smeared on, and the taste just isn't right. Just wondering
> >>>if it's becoming widespread.
> >>Do you remember on what kind of sushi they put the
> >>miso-mayonnaise? It's not uncommon here that sushi wrapped
> >>around with nori have tuna salad or crab salad with mayonnaise
> >>on them, but I haven't come across sushi with miso-mayonnaise.
> >So, desu ne. Tokyo de tsunaonigiri wo yoku tabeta.
> >>(From several English websites written about Japanese
> >>mayonnaise, I got the impression that Japanese-brand mayo
> >>(the standard one, not miso-mayonnaise) tastes a bit different
> >>from "Western" mayo. Is that true?)
> >Yes, but it's closer to Western mayo than Taiwanese mayo.
>
> I don't really know what kinds of mayonnaise the sushi places
> are using -- I ran across that miso-mayonnaise recipe as one
> of the first Google hits.
I think you could make miso-mayonnaise more easily, just
mixing miso and mayonnaise. (I haven't tasted it, though.)
> I make mayonnaise all the time, but
> both the idea and the taste of it in sushi is strange to me.
>
> The first time I noticed it was about ten years ago, at a
> restaurant said "Japanese" on the front, but after we were
> sitting for a while we noticed calendars, etc. that were
> obviously Korean. (Most places that serve sushi here also
> have table service, by the way.) They used the mayo in nigiri
> between the fish and the rice, in place of wasabi. It was
> truly horrible -- it gave a sweet, stale, oily taste to the
> fresh fish.
I've never heard of such sushi.
> I like Korean food, and I wish they would specialize in
> their own cuisine! No need to ruin sushi for American tastes.
>
> The next place I noticed it was in one of those places that
> has the little wooden boats going around and around in a
> trough on an oval counter, where the chefs keep replacing
> plates on the boats for the customers to grab as they go by.
We call them "kaiten-zushi". Popular style of sushi restaurants
these days.
> The mayo was in battleship-wrap sushi -- where they chop the
> ingredients finely, mix it with a sauce, and place it in a
> short cylindrical wrap of nori with rice in the bottom.
> I couldn't even identify what kind of seafood was mixed with
> the sauce -- the taste of the mayonnaise overpowered it.
That's the ones I mentioned above. Battleship-wrap sushi
of tuna (canned tuna) or crab (maybe with some vegetables
such as cucumber and onion) mixed with mayo is common here.
> I have two older books on sushi, and a new one on vegetarian
> sushi, and none of them mention mayonnaise. Perhaps it's
> become a habit to make sushi more appealing to Western
> tastes, but I prefer traditional ingredients.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Richard Fontana
I say "a tin of sardines", not "a can of sardines". It's not
*can-shaped*, see?
I also agree with whoever spoke of "a tin" of those cookie things, but I'm
not sure that's an active-vocabulary-thing for me.
felix
> The sandwiches were completely my own design, and I take full
> responsibility for their vulgarity.
They sound great tho - Nigel Slater put me onto the idea of a fish
finger sandwich, with mayo and cornichons, on baguette tho plastic
bread is fine too. Yum.
felix
ntaylor
NT>>Did you ever play 'Kick the can"?