common and proper nouns
Dan Driscoll
For the common noun "bird" you might give a more specific bird as a
"robin". Is "robin" a proper noun? Why isn't it capitalized if it is?
If it isn't, what would a proper noun for "bird" be and why? Thanks for
any assistance you could give me.
Robert Lieblich
A proper noun for "bird" would be "Polly," assuming "Polly" was the name
of a particular parrot. To make it a bit easier to follow, consider
dogs. "Spaniel" is a common noun. "Fido" or "Spot" (again on the
assumption that these are the names of individual dogs) are proper
nouns.
"Man" is a common noun. "Dan Driscoll" is a proper noun. "Nation" is a
common noun. "Germany" is a proper noun.
Bob Lieblich (a proper noun)
Terry Carroll
>For the common noun "bird" you might give a more specific bird as a
>"robin". Is "robin" a proper noun?
No, unless you're referring to Batman's sidekick. A proper noun is a
noun that designates a particular being or thing. When you use the
noun "robin" to refer to a type of bird, you're not referring to a
single particular bird. There are millions of robins.
> Why isn't it capitalized if it is?
>If it isn't, what would a proper noun for "bird" be and why?
If you named your canary "Fang," "Fang" would be a proper noun,
because you're referring to a particular bird, the one named "Fang."
Robert Lipton
In article <34874F...@msn.com>, Dan Driscoll wrote:
>For the common noun "bird" you might give a more specific bird as a
>any assistance you could give me.
Robin is not a proper noun unless it is a given name (my cousin Robin, for
example.)
A proper noun is the name for a _specific_ thing.
Bob
Donna Richoux
Dan Driscoll <thedri...@msn.com> wrote:
> For the common noun "bird" you might give a more specific bird as a
> "robin". Is "robin" a proper noun?
No. A proper noun is the name of a *particular* person, place or thing.
A robin is a kind of bird, just like a dog is a kind of mammal, and a
poodle is a kind of dog, but things that are kinds of things are not
routinely capitalized.
>Why isn't it capitalized if it is?
> If it isn't, what would a proper noun for "bird" be and why?
Tweetie (of Warner Brothers cartoons). Big Bird, of Sesame Street.
Archimedes (of the Sword in the Stone). I can't think of any other
famous named birds at the moment (odd, that).
It may help you to realize that scientists say there are two kinds of
names for plants and animals. One is the "common name," and this will
vary from language to language, and even region to region. Common names
are not capitalized unless they happen to contain a proper name
themselves, like "Baltimore oriole." Scientific names, on the other
hand, are internationally agreed-upon and always follow a very precise
style format, such as (and here I'm using / to mean italics): /Panthera
tigris/, the tiger.
Best wishes --- Donna Richoux
Lee Rudolph
tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) writes:
>Tweetie (of Warner Brothers cartoons). Big Bird, of Sesame Street.
>Archimedes (of the Sword in the Stone). I can't think of any other
>famous named birds at the moment (odd, that).
The Phoenix. (There's only one at a time.)
E. Nesbit has her Phoenix (I think; but maybe it's the Psammead? or
some other creature) explain that "The end of a lark is the beak."
Would that still be understood by contemporary UK kids?
Lee Rudolph
Simon R. Hughes
On 5 Dec 1997 10:00:24 GMT, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) scribbled:
> Dan Driscoll <thedri...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > For the common noun "bird" you might give a more specific bird as a
> > "robin". Is "robin" a proper noun?
[snip]
> Tweetie (of Warner Brothers cartoons). Big Bird, of Sesame Street.
> Archimedes (of the Sword in the Stone). I can't think of any other
> famous named birds at the moment (odd, that).
[snip]
This is off topic, but the mention of Big Bird prompted my memory.
A few years ago, I was in a Swedish church and I got talking to the
translator, who translated the meeting into English for those present that
knew no Swedish (the church runs an international Bible school, so there
were a number). She told me that once she had translated Isaiah 40:31, but
couldn't remember the word "eagle". Her translation was something like the
following:
"But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall
mount up with wings as Big Bird..."
She told me that it was days before someone explained why all the Americans
fell off their chairs.
Simon R. Hughes "This scentence contain three errors."
mailto:shu...@geocities.com
(Mail not sent directly to this address will be deleted.)
Charles A. Lee
On Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:50:34 -0600, Dan Driscoll
<thedri...@msn.com> wrote:
>For the common noun "bird" you might give a more specific bird as a
>"robin". Is "robin" a proper noun? Why isn't it capitalized if it is?
>If it isn't, what would a proper noun for "bird" be and why? Thanks for
>any assistance you could give me.
RHUD2's definition of proper noun is helpful.
"a noun that is not normally preceded by an article
or other limiting limited modifier, [like] any or
some, and that is arbitrarily used to denote a
particular person, place, or thing without regard
to any descriptive meaning the word or phrase may have."
Even a bald eagle, our national symbol, would not qualify for
capitalization under this definition since there are many of them and
the species name is descriptive, not merely identifying. The same is
true of human. We are that species, but you don't need a capital
letter until you name a particular one (Dan).
If your have a parakeet and you name her Chipper, you reach the level
of particularity where capitalization applies to a bird.
Charles A. Lee
http://www.concentric.net/~azcal
================================
= "Nobody goes there anymore; =
= it's too crowded. =
= - Yogi Berra =
================================
SLHinton17
Dan Driscoll wrote:
>For the common noun "bird" you might give a more specific bird as a
>"robin". Is "robin" a proper noun? Why isn't it capitalized if it is?
>If it isn't, what would a proper noun for "bird" be and why? Thanks for
>any assistance you could give me.
**************************
I think that the vernacular names of species should not be considered as proper
nouns, but in some cases they are capitalized. In writing specifically about
animals, writers in the United States often capitalize terms that refer
directly to a species: thus they would write "robin," but "American Robin"
(which is not closely related to the European Robin.) The *Chicago Manual of
Style" prefers that a vernacular name NOT be capitalized unless it includes a
proper name, as in "Cooper's hawk," but in a book about birds, it would
probably appear as "Cooper's Hawk." When I was writing my *Seashore Life of
Southern California*, the editors at the University of California Press asked
me to follow this convention. Thus I would speak of 'lobsters" or "spiny
lobsters," but "California Spiny Lobster" when referring to *Panulirus
interruptus*.
Sam Hinton
La Jolla, CA
Steve MacGregor
Charles A. Lee <az...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<348a1252....@news.concentric.net>...
<<The same is true of human. We are that species, but you don't need
a capital
letter until you name a particular one (Dan).>>
Or until you name the genus along with the species: Homo sapiens.
Names of genera (and all higher-order categories) are always
capitalized.
--
(Reply to SPMacGregor at NetValue dot Net)
---------------------------------------------------------
Whom are you going to call? GRAMMAR BUSTERS!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Stan Brown
In article <19971207153...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>I think that the vernacular names of species should not be considered as proper
>nouns, but in some cases they are capitalized. In writing specifically about
>animals, writers in the United States often capitalize terms that refer
>directly to a species: thus they would write "robin," but "American Robin"
>(which is not closely related to the European Robin.)
Speaking as a writer in the United States, I disagree with the above
practice. I would certainly write "American robin" and not "American
Robin", and if I saw "Robin" with a capital I would assume it was a typo.
Such usage is UNcommon enough that it strikes me as wrong. I don't say
that no one uses it, but it's certainly not the majority practice.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
http://www.concentric.net/%7eBrownsta/
"If you have nothing to say, say nothing." --Yes, Prime Minister
Stuart Leichter
In article <1997120511...@p021.hlm.euronet.nl>, tr...@euronet.nl
(Donna Richoux) wrote:
> Tweetie (of Warner Brothers cartoons). Big Bird, of Sesame Street.
> Archimedes (of the Sword in the Stone). I can't think of any other
> famous named birds at the moment (odd, that).
>
Did Leda have any kids, muses, or chicks?
--
Stuart Leichter
Frances Kemmish
Stuart Leichter wrote:
>
>
> Did Leda have any kids, muses, or chicks?
>
> --
> Stuart Leichter
Kastor, Polydeukes, Klytemnestra, and Helen
Fran
Daan Sandee
In article <1997120511...@p021.hlm.euronet.nl> tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) writes:
>
>It may help you to realize that scientists say there are two kinds of
>names for plants and animals. One is the "common name," and this will
>vary from language to language, and even region to region. Common names
>are not capitalized unless they happen to contain a proper name
>themselves, like "Baltimore oriole." Scientific names, on the other
>hand, are internationally agreed-upon and always follow a very precise
>style format, such as (and here I'm using / to mean italics): /Panthera
>tigris/, the tiger.
One addition : scientists attempt to standardize comon or vernacular names
for all species of organisms (plants, animals, etc.) and when such a generally
accepted common name is used in a scientific context, it is capitalized, at
least in English and some other languages, including Dutch. Check the Nature
Guide section in any bookstore.
Thus a feeder watcher in the U.S. calling out a sparrow might mean any one
of thirty species, depending on location and species, whereas in England the
betting would be that it is a Sparrow, _Passer domesticus_. (Tree Sparrows,
_Passer montanus_, are unusual enough to be addressed by their full name.)
And today's highlight, in Massachusetts, was a flock of White-winged Crossbills
(_Loxia leucoptera_). Not much of a highlight, as I had seen the same birds
last week. This capitalization of common names is usual, although (to be
honest) it is contested.
Daan Sandee
Burlington, MA Use this email address: sandee (at) east . sun . com
Mark Odegard
[Posted, e-mailed] **Note Spam Trap below** On Mon, 08 Dec 1997
20:28:59 -0500, slei...@nb.net (Stuart Leichter) in
<sleichte-081...@wheat-e-27.nb.net> wrote
|Did Leda have any kids, muses, or chicks?
Leda's obstetrical history was rather interesting.
--
Mark Odegard.
My real address doesn't include a Christian name.
Emailed copies of responses are very much appreciated.
Reinhold Aman
Mark Odegard wrote:
>
> [Posted, e-mailed] **Note Spam Trap below** On Mon, 08 Dec 1997
> 20:28:59 -0500, slei...@nb.net (Stuart Leichter) in
> <sleichte-081...@wheat-e-27.nb.net> wrote
>
>> Did Leda have any kids, muses, or chicks?
>
> Leda's obstetrical history was rather interesting.
Leda had cygnets (not chicks), also Helen and the twins Castor and
Pollux.
--
Reinhold Aman
Santa Rosa, CA 95402-6123, USA
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/
Robert Lipton
In article <sleichte-081...@wheat-e-27.nb.net>, Stuart Leichter wrote:
>In article <1997120511...@p021.hlm.euronet.nl>, tr...@euronet.nl
>(Donna Richoux) wrote:
>
>
>> Tweetie (of Warner Brothers cartoons). Big Bird, of Sesame Street.
>> Archimedes (of the Sword in the Stone). I can't think of any other
>> famous named birds at the moment (odd, that).
>>
>
Helen.
Bob
Mark Odegard
[Posted, e-mailed] **Note Spam Trap below** On Mon, 08 Dec 1997
<348CB4EC...@iconn.net> wrote
|Stuart Leichter wrote:
|>
|> Did Leda have any kids, muses, or chicks?
|
|Kastor, Polydeukes, Klytemnestra, and Helen
For extra credit, which egg held which? It would be interesting
to see how the scriptwriters might inject Xena and Gabrielle
into this particular tale.
Stuart Leichter
In article <348D0B...@sonic.net>, am...@sonic.net wrote:
> Mark Odegard wrote:
> >
> > [Posted, e-mailed] **Note Spam Trap below** On Mon, 08 Dec 1997
> > 20:28:59 -0500, slei...@nb.net (Stuart Leichter) in
> > <sleichte-081...@wheat-e-27.nb.net> wrote
> >
> >> Did Leda have any kids, muses, or chicks?
> >
> > Leda's obstetrical history was rather interesting.
>
> Leda had cygnets (not chicks), also Helen and the twins Castor and
> Pollux.
And Clytemnestra (not goats).
--
Stuart Leichter
Stan Brown
In article <sleichte-081...@wheat-e-27.nb.net>, slei...@nb.net
>In article <1997120511...@p021.hlm.euronet.nl>, tr...@euronet.nl
>(Donna Richoux) wrote:
>
>
>> Tweetie (of Warner Brothers cartoons). Big Bird, of Sesame Street.
>> Archimedes (of the Sword in the Stone). I can't think of any other
>> famous named birds at the moment (odd, that).
>>
Bzzt! She was the woman ravished by Zeus -- the swan shape was his, not
hers. Hence the story title, "Leda _and_ the Swan".
She had four children: Pollux and Helen (later of Troy) by Zeus, and
Castor and Clytemnestra by her husband, King Tyndareus of Sparta.
I've always wondered about some of Zeus's amorous episodes. How did he
impregnate Danae by assuming the form of a shower of gold? Unless, of
course, he was raining _up_. (No "golden showers" jokes, please!) Danae's
son was Perseus, and we all know what happened to _him_: he grew up to
become Harry Hamlin in _Clash of the Titans_.
source (except for the Harry Hamlin bit): Edith Hamilton, _Mythology_.