Get your dander up, or gander up?

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Dylan Nicholson

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Feb 2, 2004, 11:56:08 PM2/2/04
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Surprised this hasn't been asked here before, as someone mentioned to
me the other that the normal expression is to get your dander up,
whereas I had always heard it as "get your gander up". I did a couple
of searches, and it seems both terms are in use, although the former
is certainly more common.
If you search for both "gander up" and "dander up", you get a lot of
people "correcting" others about using one or the other. It seems
like both are valid variants - otherwise why would they occur so
often.

Hoping I haven't got anyone's [d|g]ander up...

Dylan

Donna Richoux

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Feb 3, 2004, 4:37:15 AM2/3/04
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Dylan Nicholson <wizo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

It's "dander." The American Heritage Dictionary has:

dander 1
 
NOUN: Informal Temper or anger: What got their
dander up?
ETYMOLOGY: Perhaps alteration of dunder, fermented
cane juice used in rum-making, fermentation,
possibly alteration of Spanish redundar, to
overflow, from Latin redundre. See redundant.

Which, by the way, AHD thinks is unrelated to:

dander 2
 
NOUN: Scurf from the coat or feathers of various
animals, often of an allergenic nature.
ETYMOLOGY: Alteration of dandruff.

How many other people are saying "gander" instead of "dander"?
Google shows:

"my dander up" 1660
"my gander up" 91 Ratio 18:1

That makes it about as common, relatively speaking, as people spelling
"recieve," "milage," and "suprise." Would you describe those as "valid
variants" because they occur so often?

There is a different expression involving "gander," did you realize? "To
take a gander at" something is to take a look.

--
Best - Donna Richoux

Matti Lamprhey

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Feb 3, 2004, 5:20:15 AM2/3/04
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"Dylan Nicholson" <wizo...@hotmail.com> wrote...

The original saying was "Get your gandoura up", a reference to the way
that an Algerian would hitch up his robe (the _gandoura_) before
squaring up for a figurative or actual fight with someone. When taken
over to America in the 19thC this was soon domesticated to the more
familiar word "gander", of course. In the 20thC, however, people began
to worry that there may be an undesirably phallic reference in the word,
and so they euphemized it to "dander".

Hope this helps,

Matti


Gary Vellenzer

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Feb 3, 2004, 8:19:53 AM2/3/04
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In article <1g8ksh3.1ffjnealtbvy8N%tr...@euronet.nl>, tr...@euronet.nl
says...
Hey, if you have a gander, and you can get it up....

Gary

John Dean

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Feb 3, 2004, 10:01:37 AM2/3/04
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Donna Richoux wrote:
> Dylan Nicholson <wizo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Surprised this hasn't been asked here before, as someone mentioned to
>> me the other that the normal expression is to get your dander up,
>> whereas I had always heard it as "get your gander up".
>
> It's "dander." The American Heritage Dictionary has:
>
> dander 1
>
> NOUN: Informal Temper or anger: What got their
> dander up?
>
>
> There is a different expression involving "gander," did you realize?
> "To take a gander at" something is to take a look.

That's kind of a saucy answer ...
--
John Dean
Oxford


John Dean

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Feb 3, 2004, 10:20:52 AM2/3/04
to

I thought it was 'get your gandy dancing'?
You realise some people spell it 'ghander' and some 'gandher'?
But, hey, anyone who gets my gander up can recruit him for the Roman Sacred
Geese, Junoesque Battalion, anytime.
--
John Dean
Oxford


Donna Richoux

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Feb 3, 2004, 10:47:03 AM2/3/04
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John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:

Famous geese of song and story?

Why doesn't my goose
Sing as well as thy goose,
When I paid for my goose
Twice as much as thine?

Adrian Bailey

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Feb 3, 2004, 12:45:59 PM2/3/04
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"John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote in message
news:bvoe6j$17q$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Matti Lamprhey wrote:
> > The original saying was "Get your gandoura up", a reference to the way
> > that an Algerian would hitch up his robe (the _gandoura_) before
> > squaring up for a figurative or actual fight with someone. When taken
> > over to America in the 19thC this was soon domesticated to the more
> > familiar word "gander", of course. In the 20thC, however, people
> > began to worry that there may be an undesirably phallic reference in
> > the word, and so they euphemized it to "dander".
> >
>
> I thought it was 'get your gandy dancing'?
> You realise some people spell it 'ghander' and some 'gandher'?
> But, hey, anyone who gets my gander up can recruit him for the Roman
Sacred
> Geese, Junoesque Battalion, anytime.

I was told it originated as "to get yod and eruv".

Adrian


John Dean

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Feb 3, 2004, 3:51:20 PM2/3/04
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Goosey Goosey Gander
Whither shall I wander ....
--
John Dean
Oxford


Jitze Couperus

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Feb 3, 2004, 4:25:50 PM2/3/04
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On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:51:20 -0000, "John Dean"
<john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:

>>
>> Famous geese of song and story?
>>
>> Why doesn't my goose
>> Sing as well as thy goose,
>> When I paid for my goose
>> Twice as much as thine?
>
>Goosey Goosey Gander
>Whither shall I wander ....
>

I'm so glad you didn't quote the whole thing - the bit about
"into my lady's chamber" is clearly a not-so-veiled reference
to what happens when your gander err, ahem, ...

(Neo-deconstuctivists have pointed out that gander is a euphemistic
reference to the beak or pecker which can also be gotten up)

I understand out Federal Communications Commission is contemplating
fining a number of TV stations for playing such nursery rhymes on
family-oriented programs. National Geographic is also under fire for
publishing a picture of the top half of nekkid female member of the
Onga-Bonga tribe.

Jitze

Mickwick

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Feb 3, 2004, 4:43:05 PM2/3/04
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In alt.usage.english, Jitze Couperus wrote:

>I understand out Federal Communications Commission is contemplating
>fining a number of TV stations for playing such nursery rhymes on
>family-oriented programs. National Geographic is also under fire for
>publishing a picture of the top half of nekkid female member of the
>Onga-Bonga tribe.

Bong-Bongo tribe, shirley?

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba59/feat1.shtml

That's the only reference I have been able to find to the existence of a
real Bongo[o]-Bongo Land. The Bongos undoubtedly exist (in Sudan). But
Bong[o]-Bongos? I smell mischief.

Dr Lurve?

--
Mickwick

Evan Kirshenbaum

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Feb 3, 2004, 5:44:06 PM2/3/04
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Mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to> writes:

Well, there's Rongorongo, but that's an undeciphered script used
(presumably) to write the Rapanui language on Easter Island.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |...as a mobile phone is analogous
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |to a Q-Tip -- yeah, it's something
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |you stick in your ear, but there
|all resemblance ends.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Ross Howard
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/


Donna Richoux

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Feb 3, 2004, 6:29:07 PM2/3/04
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John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:

Identify: Spruce Goose, Goosey Loosey, and Gander AFB.

Maybe this will be easier for you than it would be for me: On which
traditional holiday was it customary to eat a goose?

--
Best -- Donna Richoux


bry...@attglobal.net

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Feb 3, 2004, 6:51:05 PM2/3/04
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"Matti Lamprhey" <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote in message
news:bvnt8d$uh4qo$1...@ID-103223.news.uni-berlin.de...

Dander up/Dander Down

Here is an example from Tom Sawyer (Twain, 1876), ch 1:

Aunt Polly:

He 'pears to know just how
long he can torment me before I get my dander up, and he knows if he
can make out to put me off for a minute or make me laugh, it's all down
again and I can't hit him a lick.

Jim


John Dean

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Feb 3, 2004, 8:46:19 PM2/3/04
to

And, writing on one side of the paper only, explain why waygoose is correct
and wayzgoose isn't.
--
John 'No wonder Tiny Time cried ...' Dean
Oxford


Peter Moylan

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Feb 3, 2004, 8:51:47 PM2/3/04
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Gary Vellenzer infrared:


>Hey, if you have a gander, and you can get it up....

One of the Billy Connolly repeats is running here at the moment.
His comments on muffin' the mule were well worth hearing.

--
Peter Moylan Peter....@newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)

Peter Moylan

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Feb 3, 2004, 8:58:33 PM2/3/04
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John Dean infrared:
>Donna Richoux wrote:

>> Famous geese of song and story?
>>
>> Why doesn't my goose
>> Sing as well as thy goose,
>> When I paid for my goose
>> Twice as much as thine?
>
>Goosey Goosey Gander
>Whither shall I wander ....

Old Mother Goose, when she wanted to wander
Would fly through the air on a very fine gander.

That makes two old rhymes where "wander" and "gander" rhyme with
each other. Which, if either, was pronounced the modern way?

In any case, it's clear that Old M.G. preferred to be on top.

Ben Zimmer

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Feb 3, 2004, 11:28:06 PM2/3/04
to

It does seem odd, considering that in contemporary cultural anthropology
"Bongo-Bongo" invariably represents a purely fictitious (presumably
African) tribe. Often it's given as a sort of ironic metacommentary,
critiquing anthropologists who come up with obscure counterexamples to
posited cultural universals. The earliest usage I find on the JSTOR
database of scholarly journals is from 1962:

Review of _Femmes d'Afrique Noire_ by Denise Paulme
Robert F. Murphy
American Anthropologist 64:5 (Oct. 1962), pp. 1075-1077.
[Women's] status contains within in its own compensatory
features, and if the male anthropologist cannot see this
in his hearth, how can he detect it among the Bongo-Bongo?

A better known example is from Mary Douglas (1970):

_Natural Symbols: Explorations in Cosmology_
By Mary Douglas. Barrie & Rockliff, 1970.
It serves to counter the effects of Bongo-Bongoism, the
trap of all anthropological discussion. Hitherto when a
generalization is tentatively advanced, it is rejected out
of court by any fieldworkers who can say: 'This is all
very well, but it doesn't apply to the Bongo-Bongo.'
(text available on Amazon: <http://tinyurl.com/2qt6l>)

Last time "Bongo-Bongo (Land)" came up here, it was in the context of
Tory minister Alan Clark's notorious usage [1]. I suggested in that
thread a possible connection to the song "Civilization (Bongo, Bongo,
Bongo)", recorded by the Andrews Sisters with Danny Kaye in 1947
("Bongo, bongo, bongo, I don't wanna leave the Congo..."). This in turn
was perhaps inspired by a song called "Bongo on the Congo", lyrics by
P.G. Wodehouse and music by Jerome Kern, which appeared in the 1924
musical "Sitting Pretty" [2].

I think Wodehouse might have been responsible for inventing the mythical
Bongo-Bongo, but not in the musical number (though I haven't found the
lyrics for it yet). In two short stories that first appeared in 1932
("The Story of Webster" and "Cats Will be Cats" aka "The Bishop's
Folly"), Wodehouse introduces a character named Theodore who accepts
"the vacant Bishopric of Bongo-Bongo, in West Africa." I could imagine
British social anthropologists reading Wodehouse and then applying
"Bongo-Bongo" (ironically, of course) to their own discipline.

[1] http://groups.google.com/groups?th=17e7c8fc4d782ea2
[2] http://wodehouse.ru/musical.htm
[3] http://wodehouse.ru/49.htm
http://tinyurl.com/2frbt ("The Story of Webster" on Amazon)

Jitze Couperus

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Feb 4, 2004, 2:53:34 AM2/4/04
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On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:43:05 +0000, Mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to>
wrote:


>... The Bongos undoubtedly exist (in Sudan). But


The tribe would then be known as the Wabongo... there is an
eponymously named location in the Central African Republic, see

http://www.calle.com/world/CT/0/Wabongo.html

The lyrics of the song that I recall (popular as a local ditty around
the time of Congo's independance) went:

OH! A-bingo bango bongo
I don't want to leave the Congo
I refuse to go...

Jitze

Donna Richoux

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Feb 4, 2004, 7:32:15 AM2/4/04
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John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:

> >>> Famous geese of song and story?
> >>>
> >>> Why doesn't my goose
> >>> Sing as well as thy goose,
> >>> When I paid for my goose
> >>> Twice as much as thine?
> >>
> >> Goosey Goosey Gander
> >> Whither shall I wander ....
> >
> > Identify: Spruce Goose, Goosey Loosey, and Gander AFB.
> >
> > Maybe this will be easier for you than it would be for me: On which
> > traditional holiday was it customary to eat a goose?
>
> And, writing on one side of the paper only, explain why waygoose is correct
> and wayzgoose isn't.

My goose is cooked, on that one. I barely managed to find out what they
mean (Onelook.com). What's the answer?

I know that "Canadian goose" is wrong.

Retreating into simple verse:

Christmas is comin' and the geese are gettin' fat
Please to put a penny in the old man's hat.
If you haven't got a penny, then a ha'penny will do,
If you haven't got a ha'penny, God bless you.

That may be the only use of "ha'penny" known in the States.

Then there's the story of the Goose Girl, and why she found herself
tending geese.

A flock of domestic geese wanders along the neighboring canal. They are
the stupidest birds. If you offer them something to eat, they spend
*all* their energy trying to chase the other birds away, instead of
eating.

John Dean

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Feb 4, 2004, 8:05:06 AM2/4/04
to
Donna Richoux wrote:
> John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>
>>>>> Famous geese of song and story?
>>>>>
>>>>> Why doesn't my goose
>>>>> Sing as well as thy goose,
>>>>> When I paid for my goose
>>>>> Twice as much as thine?
>>>>
>>>> Goosey Goosey Gander
>>>> Whither shall I wander ....
>>>
>>> Identify: Spruce Goose, Goosey Loosey, and Gander AFB.
>>>
>>> Maybe this will be easier for you than it would be for me: On which
>>> traditional holiday was it customary to eat a goose?
>>
>> And, writing on one side of the paper only, explain why waygoose is
>> correct and wayzgoose isn't.
>
> My goose is cooked, on that one. I barely managed to find out what
> they mean (Onelook.com). What's the answer?

Per OED : << The eccentrically spelt form wayzgoose, which, although
established in recent use, has not been found, exc. in Bailey's Dictionary,
earlier than 1875, is prob. a figment invented in the interest of an
etymological conjecture (see quot. 1731). Bailey's assertion that the word
had the sense of ‘stubble-goose’ is unsupported, and is very unlikely; this
allegation, and the accompanying fantastic misspelling of wase, may have
been suggested by the idea that the obscure word waygoose could be explained
on the assumption that it had lost a z. >>


>
>
> Christmas is comin' and the geese are gettin' fat
> Please to put a penny in the old man's hat.
> If you haven't got a penny, then a ha'penny will do,
> If you haven't got a ha'penny, God bless you.

I'm sure you know there's an alternative duosyllabic phrase to replace the
last three words.

I wonder if anyone got goosed doing a goose step?
--
John Dean
Oxford


Mickwick

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Feb 4, 2004, 8:22:42 AM2/4/04
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In alt.usage.english, Jitze Couperus wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:43:05 +0000, Mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to>

>>... The Bongos undoubtedly exist (in Sudan). But


>
>The tribe would then be known as the Wabongo... there is an
>eponymously named location in the Central African Republic, see
>
>http://www.calle.com/world/CT/0/Wabongo.html

(Useful site. Thanks.)

Although the Bongos migrated through what became the CAR in about 1600,

http://www.tribalarts.com/feature/bongo/map.html

the various CAR and Congolese Bongos* seem to be unrelated to the
present-day Sudanese Bongos.

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pater/ethno/Suda.html

BONGO (BUNGU, DOR) [BOT] 5,000 to 10,000 (1987 SIL). A large
sparsely populated area reaching from Tonj and Wau on the north,
the Beli on the east, the Zande on the south, and the Bor on the
west. Nilo-Saharan, Central Sudanic, West, Bongo-Bagirmi,
Bongo-Baka, Bongo. [...] Many students drop out of school
because they cannot understand the language being used.
Different from Bongo which is a dialect or closely related
language to Banda of CAR and Zaďre. Typology: SVO. Hunters.
Traditional religion, Muslim, Christian. Survey needed.

I looked into all this in some depth a couple of weeks ago because I was
so surprised at having found what appeared to be a genuine reference to
a Bong-Bongo tribe. Like Ben, I quickly found that anthropologists
aren't afraid to use Bongo-Bongo as a generic tribal name but the
article in _British Archaeology_ referred to alleged encounters between
white explorers and a genuine tribe of cannibals called the Bong-Bongo.

Well now, I looked up those explorers and, while it's true that they did
encounter the Bongo people of Sudan, as far as I can tell they neither
called them the Bong-Bongo nor alleged that they were cannibals. (That
was their neighbours the Azande aka Niam-Niam aka all sorts of things.)
That's why I suspected the writer of mischief.

But I've just looked at the article again and the writer is not, as I
had thought, an anthropologist: he is an archaeologist. So perhaps it
was just a passing reference to subject matter that he wasn't very
familiar with.

Incidentally, for those who like old maps, here's a beauty (large file):

www.kenyalogy.com/eng/mapake/afc1895.html

And does anyone know where I might find a larger version of this map of
African tribes/languages?

http://www.loc.gov/rr/amed/guide/images/a22rs.jpg

>The lyrics of the song that I recall (popular as a local ditty around
>the time of Congo's independance) went:
>
> OH! A-bingo bango bongo
> I don't want to leave the Congo
> I refuse to go...

Left unsnipped for Professor Laura's benefit.


*In the CAR, in addition to the (slavers' Swahili?) Wabongo, there are
three settlements called Bongo and a Massif des Bongos. In the D. R.
Congo there are at least eight settlements called Bongo (plus two called
Bongbalangbongo) and a Bongo Island. A Bongo dialect of the Banda
language is spoken in parts of both the CAR and the D.
R. Congo.

--
Mickwick

rban...@shaw.ca

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Feb 4, 2004, 9:28:49 AM2/4/04
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coup...@znet.eschew-spam.com (Jitze Couperus) wrote

> I refuse to go...

Time Warner's punishment for publication of gangsta stuff continues in
the ridicule which must certainly shower on AOL's attempts to get some
of its Super Bowl advertising money back. That particular fallout
from the Jacksonian fiasco (or ripoff) reminded me that bongo drums
are of unequal size and to suspect, given the Jacksonian family
fondness for attribute tinkering (and tinkering's inherent
uncertainty), that it may have been essential for one bongo to remain
draped.

Be that as it may, I do hope that Mr Couperus will forgive me for
dangling on a mere fragment of his quotation.

Donna Richoux

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Feb 4, 2004, 11:27:47 AM2/4/04
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John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:

> Donna Richoux wrote:
> >
> >>>>> Famous geese of song and story?

[snip]

> >
> > Christmas is comin' and the geese are gettin' fat
> > Please to put a penny in the old man's hat.
> > If you haven't got a penny, then a ha'penny will do,
> > If you haven't got a ha'penny, God bless you.
>
> I'm sure you know there's an alternative duosyllabic phrase to replace the
> last three words.

No, I've only heard this sweet and charitable version. Your suggestion
would certainly remove the attractive element of pity.

>
> I wonder if anyone got goosed doing a goose step?

We've done gooseberries, in various meanings. How about ancient
literature? Do you know how the geese saved Rome?

Riddle:
How do you get down from an elephant?
You don't get down from an elephant, silly, you get down from a goose!

(Or a duck. Eider way.)

Ben Zimmer

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Feb 4, 2004, 12:37:06 PM2/4/04
to
Mickwick wrote:
>
> I looked into all this in some depth a couple of weeks ago because I was
> so surprised at having found what appeared to be a genuine reference to
> a Bong-Bongo tribe. Like Ben, I quickly found that anthropologists
> aren't afraid to use Bongo-Bongo as a generic tribal name but the
> article in _British Archaeology_ referred to alleged encounters between
> white explorers and a genuine tribe of cannibals called the Bong-Bongo.
>
> Well now, I looked up those explorers and, while it's true that they did
> encounter the Bongo people of Sudan, as far as I can tell they neither
> called them the Bong-Bongo nor alleged that they were cannibals. (That
> was their neighbours the Azande aka Niam-Niam aka all sorts of things.)
> That's why I suspected the writer of mischief.
>
> But I've just looked at the article again and the writer is not, as I
> had thought, an anthropologist: he is an archaeologist. So perhaps it
> was just a passing reference to subject matter that he wasn't very
> familiar with.

Looking at that article again, I see the writer also mentions the Fang,
who reside in present-day Gabon, Cameroon, and Equatorial Guinea.
There's a so-called 'Pygmy' group in Gabon called the Babongo:
<http://www.unesco-pygmee.org/res/jk/intro.php>. Perhaps that was the
source of the confusion-- were the Babongo ever called cannibals?

Frances Kemmish

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Feb 4, 2004, 1:42:29 PM2/4/04
to
Mickwick wrote:

> But I've just looked at the article again and the writer is not, as I
> had thought, an anthropologist: he is an archaeologist. So perhaps it
> was just a passing reference to subject matter that he wasn't very
> familiar with.
>

Was the archaeologist an American? If so, he would probably have been
trained first as an anthropologist; there, archaeology is regarded as a
subdiscipline of anthropology. Archaeologists in the UK are not
necessarily trained in anthropology or weren't in my youth, anyway. I'm
sure that it's all different now.

--
Frances Kemmish
Production Manager
East Coast Youth Ballet
www.byramartscenter.com

John Dean

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Feb 4, 2004, 2:11:37 PM2/4/04
to
Donna Richoux wrote:
> John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>
>> Donna Richoux wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Famous geese of song and story?
>
> [snip]
>
>>>
>>> Christmas is comin' and the geese are gettin' fat
>>> Please to put a penny in the old man's hat.
>>> If you haven't got a penny, then a ha'penny will do,
>>> If you haven't got a ha'penny, God bless you.
>>
>> I'm sure you know there's an alternative duosyllabic phrase to
>> replace the last three words.
>
> No, I've only heard this sweet and charitable version. Your suggestion
> would certainly remove the attractive element of pity.
>
>>
>> I wonder if anyone got goosed doing a goose step?
>
> We've done gooseberries, in various meanings. How about ancient
> literature? Do you know how the geese saved Rome?

I refer my honourable and learned friend to the reference I made some hours
ago to the Roman Sacred
Geese, Junoesque Battalion.


>
> Riddle:
> How do you get down from an elephant?
> You don't get down from an elephant, silly, you get down from a goose!
>
> (Or a duck. Eider way.)

Why did the goose cross the road? It was chasing the chicken...

"Talk to me, Goose. Talk to me."
--
John Dean
Oxford


Donna Richoux

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Feb 4, 2004, 2:30:53 PM2/4/04
to
John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:

> Donna Richoux wrote:
> > John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Donna Richoux wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>>> Famous geese of song and story?
> >
> > [snip]

> > We've done gooseberries, in various meanings. How about ancient


> > literature? Do you know how the geese saved Rome?
>
> I refer my honourable and learned friend to the reference I made some hours
> ago to the Roman Sacred
> Geese, Junoesque Battalion.

Ah, I didn't make the connection. They weren't so much military geese,
were they, as very useful civilians.

Which goddess is pictured on a goose, in statues? It's not Juno.


> >
> > Riddle:
> > How do you get down from an elephant?
> > You don't get down from an elephant, silly, you get down from a goose!
> >
> > (Or a duck. Eider way.)
>
> Why did the goose cross the road? It was chasing the chicken...
>
> "Talk to me, Goose. Talk to me."

Dr. Greene as a military pilot? OK. The only movie geese I know are in
"Fly Away Home."

Goose Gossage, baseball relief pitcher.

Then there's the famous problem of the fox, the goose, and the sack of
corn.

Steve Hayes

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Feb 4, 2004, 3:01:42 PM2/4/04
to

Actually about 10 years before.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

R H Draney

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Feb 4, 2004, 2:46:33 PM2/4/04
to
Donna Richoux filted:

Nobody's mentioned the childhood game of "Duck, Duck, Goose" (or as it's
inexplicably known in Wisconsin, "Duck, Duck, Gray Duck")....

But in that one (at least as we played it) both "duck" and "goose" are
verbs....r

Donna Richoux

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Feb 4, 2004, 3:36:57 PM2/4/04
to
R H Draney <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Donna Richoux filted:
> >
> >John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Donna Richoux wrote:
> >> > John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Donna Richoux wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>>>> Famous geese of song and story?
> >> >
> >> > [snip]

> >> "Talk to me, Goose. Talk to me."


> >
> >Dr. Greene as a military pilot? OK. The only movie geese I know are in
> >"Fly Away Home."
> >
> >Goose Gossage, baseball relief pitcher.
> >
> >Then there's the famous problem of the fox, the goose, and the sack of
> >corn.
>
> Nobody's mentioned the childhood game of "Duck, Duck, Goose" (or as it's
> inexplicably known in Wisconsin, "Duck, Duck, Gray Duck")....
>
> But in that one (at least as we played it) both "duck" and "goose" are
> verbs....r

Cute. I never knew "Duck, Duck, Goose" growing up, but I saw some kids
playing it once, after.

I just remembered:

He grabbed the grey goose by the neck
Threw a duck across his back,
He didn't mind the quack, quack, quack
And the legs all dangling down-o...

Old Mother Flipperflopper jumped out of bed
Threw up the window and stuck out her head,
Crying "John, John, the gray goose is gone,
The fox is on the town-o..."

Not to mention an even better known old gray goose that died in the
millpond, standing on its head. The gander and goslings also get
honorable mentions.

R H Draney

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Feb 4, 2004, 3:57:01 PM2/4/04
to
Donna Richoux filted:

>
>I just remembered:
>
> He grabbed the grey goose by the neck
> Threw a duck across his back,
> He didn't mind the quack, quack, quack
> And the legs all dangling down-o...

I could probably do the entire Smothers Brothers version of this, banter and
all, from memory with no preparation whatsoever:

"That's really clever, yelling 'quack! quack! quack!' in a song about a
fox"....r

Tony Cooper

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Feb 4, 2004, 6:27:50 PM2/4/04
to
On 4 Feb 2004 12:57:01 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Donna Richoux filted:

Smothers Brothers? Burl Ives is the voice that comes to my inner ear
on reading this.


R H Draney

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Feb 4, 2004, 6:35:37 PM2/4/04
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Tony Cooper filted:

>
>On 4 Feb 2004 12:57:01 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>>
>>I could probably do the entire Smothers Brothers version of this, banter and
>>all, from memory with no preparation whatsoever:
>>
>>"That's really clever, yelling 'quack! quack! quack!' in a song about a
>>fox"....r
>
>Smothers Brothers? Burl Ives is the voice that comes to my inner ear
>on reading this.

Mom went to high school with Tommy; we had all their albums in the house when I
was growing up...as a result, years before "A Mighty Wind" I already couldn't
take folk music too seriously....

The "original version" of anything is the first one *you* heard, not the first
one made...I still think of "Twist And Shout" as a Beatles tune, not Isley
Brothers...(apologies to Laura for what must at this point be a very troubling
thread)....r

Skitt

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Feb 4, 2004, 7:23:35 PM2/4/04
to
R H Draney wrote:

> The "original version" of anything is the first one *you* heard, not
> the first one made...I still think of "Twist And Shout" as a Beatles
> tune, not Isley Brothers...(apologies to Laura for what must at this
> point be a very troubling thread)....r

It wasn't even the Isley Brothers who recorded it first -- it was The
Topnotes.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/

John Dean

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Feb 4, 2004, 9:00:53 PM2/4/04
to
Donna Richoux wrote:
> John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>
>> Donna Richoux wrote:
>>> John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Donna Richoux wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Famous geese of song and story?
>>>
>>> [snip]
>
>>> We've done gooseberries, in various meanings. How about ancient
>>> literature? Do you know how the geese saved Rome?
>>
>> I refer my honourable and learned friend to the reference I made
>> some hours ago to the Roman Sacred
>> Geese, Junoesque Battalion.
>
> Ah, I didn't make the connection. They weren't so much military geese,
> were they, as very useful civilians.

Indeed. They prevented their land from being made desolate and a perpetual
hissing.


>
> Which goddess is pictured on a goose, in statues? It's not Juno.

Aphrodite? Though it's sometimes a swan.
http://classics.uc.edu/johnson/myth/goddesses/aphrodite1.jpg

>>
>> "Talk to me, Goose. Talk to me."
>
> Dr. Greene as a military pilot? OK. The only movie geese I know are in
> "Fly Away Home."

I *love* that movie.
And Thomas More's wife admonishing him : '"Will you sit still by the fire
and make goslings in the ashes with a stick as children do?'
We're not counting 'The Wild Geese'? No. 'The Wild geese II' Emphatically
not.
IMDb points me at 'Those Calloways' (1965), 'Hungarian Women Plucking Geese'
(1898) (yes - eighteen, not a misprint) and various cartoons.


>
> Then there's the famous problem of the fox, the goose, and the sack of
> corn.

And the traditional game of Fox and Geese. There's an on-line version here :
http://www.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dawolfen/cs130/
(though it doesn't play a very good game)
Same principal as the Tibetan game of Tigers and Goats (of which I have a
very handsome version in beaten brass) and of which there is a v.
entertaining version on-line (flash required) at
http://xavier.bangor.ac.uk/xavier/SWGal/BagaChal/
--
John Dean
Oxford


Laura F Spira

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Feb 5, 2004, 1:58:34 AM2/5/04
to

Thanks for your concern - I was coping quite well until I encountered
the Bongo Bongo stuff in another thread but La Mamba will do nicely for
today. I'd like a clear head for tonight, though - we're going to a Joan
Baez concert.

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Donna Richoux

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Feb 5, 2004, 4:59:28 AM2/5/04
to
John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:

> Donna Richoux wrote:
> > John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Donna Richoux wrote:
> >>> John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Donna Richoux wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Famous geese of song and story?
> >>>
> >>> [snip]

> > Dr. Greene as a military pilot? OK. The only movie geese I know are in


> > "Fly Away Home."
>
> I *love* that movie.
> And Thomas More's wife admonishing him : '"Will you sit still by the fire
> and make goslings in the ashes with a stick as children do?'

Oh, that's good.

> We're not counting 'The Wild Geese'? No. 'The Wild geese II' Emphatically
> not.
> IMDb points me at 'Those Calloways' (1965), 'Hungarian Women Plucking Geese'
> (1898) (yes - eighteen, not a misprint) and various cartoons.

That made me remember Paul Gallico's "The Snow Goose" about Dunkirk,
which was dramatised with Richard Harris.

> > Then there's the famous problem of the fox, the goose, and the sack of
> > corn.
>
> And the traditional game of Fox and Geese. There's an on-line version here :
> http://www.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dawolfen/cs130/
> (though it doesn't play a very good game)

There used to be a constellation with a similar name, says Wikipedia:

In the late 17th century this constellation was
created by the Polish astronomer Johannes Hevelius.
It was originally known as Vulpecula cum ansere: the
Fox and the Goose. The Goose, which was represented
in the jaws of the Fox, is no longer officially in
the sky but reputedly remains in the name of the
alpha star: Anser.

I learned that a group of geese in flight can be called a "skein." I
don't know why that would be the same word as a skein of yarn, but M-W
lists them together. "Gaggle" is onomatopoeia.

The geese flying is a well-known symbol of the changing seasons, but I
can't think if there's a single famous example of that. It's easy to
find things like:

Skeins of flying geese
Paint patterns on prairie ponds
Reflections of fall

Do the Australians have wild geese?

No one has mentioned the most famous goose of all. I'm afraid if we did
so, that would kill this wild goose chase.

(Did I hear pleading from the gallery? But we want to have all the
ansers!)

PS - Here's a pretty "wild geese" quilt pattern:
http://www.quiltindex.com/ATQF/Batiks/Batiks%20-%20DS%20%20wild%20geese.
jpg

Frances Kemmish

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Feb 5, 2004, 6:50:01 AM2/5/04
to
Donna Richoux wrote:

>
> That made me remember Paul Gallico's "The Snow Goose" about Dunkirk,
> which was dramatised with Richard Harris.
>

Which reminded me of "The Grey Goose of Arnhem" by Leo Heaps, about
Arnhem, 1944.

Wood Avens

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Feb 5, 2004, 6:50:53 AM2/5/04
to
On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:59:28 +0100, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
wrote:

>The geese flying is a well-known symbol of the changing seasons, but I
>can't think if there's a single famous example of that.

I'm reminded of a song I learned as a child, "Tonight I heard the wild
goose cry", which I see upon Googling is attributed to Terry Gilkyson
and was sung by Frankie Laine in 1950 (I'd supposed it was older):
http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/t/thecryofthewildgoose.shtml.

I've always thought of that song against a mental backdrop of the
geese flying south in autumn, but the song doesn't actually say so.


--

Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove number to reply

Wood Avens

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Feb 5, 2004, 7:50:11 AM2/5/04
to
On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 11:50:53 +0000, Wood Avens
<woodav...@gmx.co.uk> wrote:

>http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/t/thecryofthewildgoose.shtml.
>
>I've always thought of that song against a mental backdrop of the
>geese flying south in autumn, but the song doesn't actually say so.
>

In fact (replying to my own post) the words say "Spring is coming and
the ice will break", so the geese are starting to fly north.

John Dean

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Feb 5, 2004, 8:20:28 AM2/5/04
to

Ooh! Ooh! I remember that! [now]. I was always a big Frankie Laine fan.
Even though he sang some weird shit. You know he's still alive, Right? He's
90 and still singing. Surprised? Imagine how Frankie feels
--
John 'and they call the wind Tootsie' Dean
Oxford


Wood Avens

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Feb 5, 2004, 8:36:56 AM2/5/04
to
On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:20:28 -0000, "John Dean"
<john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:

>Wood Avens wrote:

>> I'm reminded of a song I learned as a child, "Tonight I heard the wild
>> goose cry", which I see upon Googling is attributed to Terry Gilkyson
>> and was sung by Frankie Laine in 1950 (I'd supposed it was older):
>> http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/t/thecryofthewildgoose.shtml.

>Ooh! Ooh! I remember that! [now]. I was always a big Frankie Laine fan.


>Even though he sang some weird shit. You know he's still alive, Right? He's
>90 and still singing. Surprised? Imagine how Frankie feels

I was never a Frankie Laine fan. I admit to not having realised it
was one of his until I read it via Google earlier this morning. I
learnt it as a child (and it can't have been long after 1950), while
sitting on a log by a campfire in the dark; under those circumstances
it has a high shiver-factor - which for me it retains to this day.

Tony Cooper

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Feb 5, 2004, 9:05:05 AM2/5/04
to
On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:20:28 -0000, "John Dean"
<john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:

I always get Frankie Lane and Vaughn Munroe mixed up. Let's see, that
song was "I must go where the Ghost Riders in the sky go", wasn't it?


John Dean

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Feb 5, 2004, 10:21:30 AM2/5/04
to

You're thinking of:

<< A capital ship for an ocean trip
Was the "Walloping Window-blind"!
No gale that blew dismayed her crew
Or troubled the captain's mind;>>
--
John Dean
Oxford


Scarlotti

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Feb 5, 2004, 2:34:02 PM2/5/04
to
Wood Avens <woodav...@gmx.co.uk> wrote in message news:<rse420tgh528s2d9i...@4ax.com>...

> On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 11:50:53 +0000, Wood Avens
> <woodav...@gmx.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/t/thecryofthewildgoose.shtml.
> >
> >I've always thought of that song against a mental backdrop of the
> >geese flying south in autumn, but the song doesn't actually say so.
> >
>
> In fact (replying to my own post) the words say "Spring is coming and
> the ice will break", so the geese are starting to fly north.

I still tend to think of them flying south, even though I'm very
familiar with the lyrics. One of my early childhood memories is of my
mother quoting from this song when we'd see geese flying south every
autumn.

Back then, I didn't know it was a song -- it just seemed like some
timeless quote (perhaps from some early American poem). I found it
that it was a song when I was in my teens and bought a Frankie Laine
album that included it. It immediately became one of my favorite
songs -- and still is to this day (20-odd years later).

The song opens with them flying north, although the lyrics (posted at
the above link) are a bit off:

My heart knows what the wild goose knows
And I must go where the wild goose goes
Wild goose, brother goose, which is best?
A wanderin' fool or a heart at rest?

*The last line should read: "A wanderin' FOOT or a heart at rest?"

I used to think it said "fool" as well, but I've now got 3 different
versions of the song on cd, and all 3 clearly say "foot." Foot
actually makes more sense poetically, as the metaphoric choice in the
question is between 2 body parts: foot and heart.

I've seen several lyrics sites that erroneously list it as "fool."

Tonight I heard the wild goose cry

Hangin' north in the lonely sky

*This line is actually "WINGIN' north in the lonely sky." Geese don't
hover, after all.

Tried to sleep, it warn't no use
'cause I am a brother to the old wild goose

(Oh, my heart knows what the wild goose knows)
(And I must go where the wild goose goes)
Wild goose, brother goose, which is best?
A wanderin' FOOT or a heart at rest?

Woman was kind and true to me
She thinks she loves me, more fool she!
She's got a LEARN that ain't no use

*Hopefully that was just a typo on the transcriber's part.

To love a brother of the old wild goose

(Oh, my heart knows what the wild goose knows)
(And I must go where the wild goose goes)
Wild goose, brother goose, which is best?
A wanderin' FOOT or a heart at rest?

8(OH, YOU WILD GOOSE!)

The cabin is warm and the snow is deep
And I got a woman who lies asleep
She'll wake up tomorrow's dawn
And find, poor critter, that her man is gone

*There are slight variations on the above, and other, lines in the 3
versions. For example, the original recording runs: "WHEN SHE WAKES
AT tomorrow's dawn/SHE'LL FIND, poor critter, that her man is gone."

(Oh, my heart knows what the wild goose knows)
(And I must go where the wild goose goes)
(Wild goose, brother goose, which is best?)
(A wanderin' fool or a heart at rest?)

Let me fly, let me fly, let me fly away

Spring is comin' and the ice will break
And I can't linger for a woman's sake
She'll see a shadow pass overhead
And she'll find a feather 'side her bed

*There are also several variations on the above line, switching the
ownership of the bed.

(Oh, my heart knows what the wild goose knows)
(And I must go where the wild goose goes)
Wild goose, brother goose, which is best?
A wanderin' fool or a heart at rest?

Jerry Friedman

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Feb 5, 2004, 4:32:43 PM2/5/04