Fe Fi Fo Fum... Grind His Bones...
Adrian Pepper
in article <8m4b03$7fi$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>:
>
>How old is the poem associated with the Jack and the Beanstalk story?
>
>Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum,
>I smell the blood of an Englishman.
>Be he live or be he dead,
>I'll grind his bones to make my bread.
>
>Apparently it's now a catch-phrase of some sort in some particular
>video game, and some young people, having never seen the last part of
>the above in renditions of Jack and the Beanstalk that they read, think
>it's new and original.
>
>I had always assumed both story and the particular poem dated back
>to antiquity, but, thinking about it again I could believe it was
>actually a reasonably recent (i.e. 1940's or so) embellishment in
>some particular copyrighted retelling of the tale.
>
>Anybody happen to feel they know any details?
Using Plan B, which perhaps should be Plan A these days, I find using
www.altavista.com a rendition of the tale which claims to be from
_The Young Folks Treasury, Volume 1_, The University Society, Inc., 1909
It includes the poem as above, i.e.
Fee, fi, fo, fum,
I smell the blood of an Englishman.
Be he alive, or be he dead,
I'll grind his bones to make my bread!
I notice it does say "alive" rather than "live", but, then one cannot
emphasize the "a" in "alive" too much in recitation, or it ruins the
scansion.
Adrian.
Adrian Pepper
How old is the poem associated with the Jack and the Beanstalk story?
Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum,
I smell the blood of an Englishman.
Be he live or be he dead,
I'll grind his bones to make my bread.
Apparently it's now a catch-phrase of some sort in some particular
video game, and some young people, having never seen the last part of
the above in renditions of Jack and the Beanstalk that they read, think
it's new and original.
I had always assumed both story and the particular poem dated back
to antiquity, but, thinking about it again I could believe it was
actually a reasonably recent (i.e. 1940's or so) embellishment in
some particular copyrighted retelling of the tale.
Anybody happen to feel they know any details?
Adrian.
Richard Fontana
My only comment is that in the retellings of "Jack and the Beanstalk" that
I read/heard, only the first two lines of what you've quoted were used --
I've never seen those other two lines before. I don't think, then, that
that four line poem is standard. Therefore, it may be irrelevant that
these people to whom you refer are young and play video games.
A bit of reasoning makes clear that the extra two lines can't be of recent
origin. They use the subjunctive, and the subjunctive is dead, right?
RF
Tom Deveson
<arpe...@math.uwaterloo.ca> writes
>
>Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum,
>I smell the blood of an Englishman.
>Be he live or be he dead,
>I'll grind his bones to make my bread.
Thomas Nashe (1567-1601) wrote in *Have with you to Saffron-Walden* in
1596:
"...O, tis a precious apothegmatical Pedant, who will finde matter
inough to dilate a whole day of the first invention of Fy, fa fum, I
smell the bloud of an English-man."
[That's not me trying to be rude, I thought the quote would be
interesting.]
In *King Lear* III.IV Edgar's lines at the end of the scene are:
"...Childe Rowland to the dark tower came,
His word was still: Fie, foh, and fum,
I smell the blood of a British man"
The lines -- the play dates from about 1605 -- are a quotation from the
traditional story *Jack the Giant-Killer*. I can't find my copy, but I'm
pretty sure it's in Jacobs's collection of traditional oral tales.
Tom
--
Tom Deveson
Evan Kirshenbaum
> arpe...@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) wrote,
> in article <8m4b03$7fi$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>:
> >
> >How old is the poem associated with the Jack and the Beanstalk story?
> >
> >Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum,
> >I smell the blood of an Englishman.
> >Be he live or be he dead,
> >I'll grind his bones to make my bread.
> >
> >Apparently it's now a catch-phrase of some sort in some particular
> >video game, and some young people, having never seen the last part of
> >the above in renditions of Jack and the Beanstalk that they read, think
> >it's new and original.
> >
> >I had always assumed both story and the particular poem dated back
> >to antiquity, but, thinking about it again I could believe it was
> >actually a reasonably recent (i.e. 1940's or so) embellishment in
> >some particular copyrighted retelling of the tale.
> >
> >Anybody happen to feel they know any details?
>
> Using Plan B, which perhaps should be Plan A these days, I find
> using www.altavista.com a rendition of the tale which claims to be
> from
>
> _The Young Folks Treasury, Volume 1_, The University Society, Inc.,
> 1909
>
> It includes the poem as above, i.e.
>
> Fee, fi, fo, fum,
> I smell the blood of an Englishman.
> Be he alive, or be he dead,
> I'll grind his bones to make my bread!
>
> I notice it does say "alive" rather than "live", but, then one cannot
> emphasize the "a" in "alive" too much in recitation, or it ruins the
> scansion.
The hotbed of fairy-tale research appears to be at the University of
Southern Mississippi, and they cover this one at
http://www-dept.usm.edu/~engdept/jack/jackhome.html
(There are other projects on Cinderella and Little Red Riding Hood.)
The earliest Jack they have is from 1820, but it doesn't appear to
have the rhyme. The giant says only "Wife, I smell fresh meat". This
is standard in all the versions they have through 1908. Only the last
one (marked "before 1919") says
"Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum,
I smell the blood of an
Englishman, let him be
alive, or let him be dead,
I'll grind his bones to
make my bread," sang
the Giant,
So it would appear that the poem dates back to the early 20th
century.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"Revolution" has many definitions.
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |From the looks of this, I'd say
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |"going around in circles" comes
|closest to applying...
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Richard M. Hartman
(650)857-7572
Tom Deveson
> I find using
>www.altavista.com a rendition of the tale which claims to be from
>
>_The Young Folks Treasury, Volume 1_, The University Society, Inc., 1909
>
>It includes the poem as above, i.e.
>
>Fee, fi, fo, fum,
>I smell the blood of an Englishman.
>Be he alive, or be he dead,
>I'll grind his bones to make my bread!
>
>I notice it does say "alive" rather than "live", but, then one cannot
>emphasize the "a" in "alive" too much in recitation, or it ruins the
>scansion.
Iona and Peter Opie in *The Classic Fairy Tales* (Oxford 1974) give a
number of variants of the verse, including a Scottish giant of 1527
called Red Etin who said:
"Snouk bit and snouk ben
I find the smell of an earthly man.
Be he living or be he dead
His heart tonight will kitchen my bread."
Tom
--
Tom Deveson
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Thomas Nashe (1567-1601) wrote in *Have with you to Saffron-Walden* in
> 1596:
>
> "...O, tis a precious apothegmatical Pedant, who will finde matter
> inough to dilate a whole day of the first invention of Fy, fa fum, I
> smell the bloud of an English-man."
>
> [That's not me trying to be rude, I thought the quote would be
> interesting.]
>
> In *King Lear* III.IV Edgar's lines at the end of the scene are:
>
> "...Childe Rowland to the dark tower came,
> His word was still: Fie, foh, and fum,
> I smell the blood of a British man"
>
> The lines -- the play dates from about 1605 -- are a quotation from
> the traditional story *Jack the Giant-Killer*. I can't find my copy,
> but I'm pretty sure it's in Jacobs's collection of traditional oral
> tales.
Ahh. The poem moved from one story to another. The USM's earliest
"Jack the Giant-Killer" (1820) doesn't contain it, but an 1898 one
does:
'Fa, fe, fi, fo, fum,
I smell the blood of an Englishman;
Let him be alive or let him be dead,
I'll grind his bones to make my bread.'
Another page
http://www.gandolf.com/cornwall/giants/footnotes/jackgk01.shtml
offers
Footnote For "Fee Fi Fo Fum"
Opie offers these variations:
Fee, fau, fum,
I smell the blood of an English man,
Be he alive, or be he dead,
I'll grind his bones to make my bread.
Opie cites other examples:
Fee fau fum,
I smell the blood of an earthly man;
Let him be alive or be dead,
Off goes his head.
Another:
Fe, fi, fo, fum,
I smell the blood of an Englishman;
If he have any liver and lights
I'll have them for my supper tonight.
Opie also quotes a Scottish giant referred to in 1528 named Red
Etin, who had 'thre heydis,' and invariably entered with these
'welcoming words':
Snouk but and snouk ben,
I find the smell of an earthly man;
Be he living or be he dead,
His heart this night will kitchen my bread.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |You may hate gravity, but gravity
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |doesn't care.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 | Clayton Christensen
Adrian Pepper
Evan Kirshenbaum <ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote,
in article <v9h4s56...@garrett.hpl.hp.com>:
>arpe...@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) writes:
>> arpe...@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) wrote,
>> in article <8m4b03$7fi$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>:
>> >
>> >How old is the poem associated with the Jack and the Beanstalk story?
>> >
>> >Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum,
>> >Be he live or be he dead,
>> >I'll grind his bones to make my bread.
>
>Southern Mississippi, and they cover this one at
>
> http://www-dept.usm.edu/~engdept/jack/jackhome.html
>
>(There are other projects on Cinderella and Little Red Riding Hood.)
>
>The earliest Jack they have is from 1820, but it doesn't appear to
>have the rhyme. The giant says only "Wife, I smell fresh meat". This
>is standard in all the versions they have through 1908. Only the last
>one (marked "before 1919") says
>
> "Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum,
> alive, or let him be dead,
> I'll grind his bones to
> the Giant,
>
>So it would appear that the poem dates back to the early 20th
>century.
Do we conclude then, that the early twentieth century author/editors
brought it across from some parallel tradition to which the earlier
quotations (e.g. Shakespeare) also alluded? And then there's that
ancient Scots giant.
All very, um, fascinating.
Adrian.
Adrian Pepper
>Southern Mississippi, and they cover this one at
>
> http://www-dept.usm.edu/~engdept/jack/jackhome.html
>
>(There are other projects on Cinderella and Little Red Riding Hood.)
Isn't the web fun?
The email address given as a contact for that *1997* page is no longer
valid. 8-)
http://home.wvadventures.net/cvance/story/jackand.htm
Is the URL with the poem I cited earler. But I will never be able to
get the two researchers together. 8-)
Adrian.
Matti Lamprhey
> On 31 Jul 2000, Adrian Pepper wrote:
>
> >
> > Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum,
> > I smell the blood of an Englishman.
> > Be he live or be he dead,
> > I'll grind his bones to make my bread.
> >
> > video game, and some young people, having never seen the last part of
> > the above in renditions of Jack and the Beanstalk that they read, think
> > it's new and original.
> >
> > I had always assumed both story and the particular poem dated back
> > to antiquity, but, thinking about it again I could believe it was
> > actually a reasonably recent (i.e. 1940's or so) embellishment in
> > some particular copyrighted retelling of the tale.
> >
> > Anybody happen to feel they know any details?
>
> I read/heard, only the first two lines of what you've quoted were used --
> I've never seen those other two lines before. I don't think, then, that
> that four line poem is standard. Therefore, it may be irrelevant that
> these people to whom you refer are young and play video games.
>
> A bit of reasoning makes clear that the extra two lines can't be of recent
> origin. They use the subjunctive, and the subjunctive is dead, right?
I have in front of me a Wordsworth Classics reprint entitled _English Fairy
Tales_ illustrated by Arthur Rackham. Unfortunately there is no indication
of the original publication date, but I would guess it to have been around
1900. Rackham was 1867--1939. A web search turned up nothing on this.
One of the tales is _Jack and the Beanstalk_, which contains the four lines
quoted:
"Fee-fi-fo-fum,
I smell the blood of an Englishman.
Be he alive, or be he dead,
I'll grind his bones to make my bread."
The narrator introduces this as "the real ogre's rhyme".
I also noticed that _Jack and the Beanstalk_ (unlike Fee-fi-fo-fum) has an
entry in Brewer:
"A nursery tale found among all sorts of races from Icelanders to
Zulus."
It would be interesting to know if non-English versions have anything like
this rhyme, with or without explicit mention of Englishmen.
Matti
Alex Chernavsky
>His heart tonight will kitchen my bread.
I'd stick with the bones. Most people don't get enough calcium, and giants
presumably need even stronger skeletons than people do. The heart might
contain a fair bit of protein, but I bet it's pretty tough and chewy.
Obaue: What's with using "kitchen" as a verb? Is that idiomatic for
Scottish giants?
--
Alex Chernavsky
al...@astrocyte-design.com
Evan Kirshenbaum
> I have in front of me a Wordsworth Classics reprint entitled
> _English Fairy Tales_ illustrated by Arthur Rackham. Unfortunately
> there is no indication of the original publication date, but I would
> guess it to have been around 1900. Rackham was 1867--1939. A web
> search turned up nothing on this.
According to
http://www.greenmanreview.com/anglo_celtic_folktales.html
Rackham did the illustrations for the 1918 edition.
> The narrator introduces this as "the real ogre's rhyme".
>
> I also noticed that _Jack and the Beanstalk_ (unlike Fee-fi-fo-fum)
> has an entry in Brewer:
> "A nursery tale found among all sorts of races from Icelanders to
> Zulus."
>
> It would be interesting to know if non-English versions have
> anything like this rhyme, with or without explicit mention of
> Englishmen.
I suspect that what's meant isn't so much this particular tale as the
motif of the hero climbing to the realm of giants or gods.
The High God, when thought of as having a definite dwelling-place
at all-for usually they are rather vague about him-is supposed to
live above the sky, which, of course, is believed to be a solid
roof, meeting the earth at the point which no one can travel far
enough to reach. People have got into this country by climbing
trees, or, in some unexplained way, by a rope thrown up or let
down; and, like Jack after climbing the beanstalk, find a country
not so very different from the one they have left. In a Yao tale a
poor woman, who had been tricked into drowning her baby, climbed a
tree into the Heaven country and appealed to Mulungu,[1] who gave
her child back to her.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/bantu.htm
The myth of Jack and his Beanstalk is found all over the world;
but the idea of a country above the sky, to which persons might
gain access by climbing, is one which could hardly fail to occur
to every barbarian.
http://celt.net/Celtic/msg/mmmakers/mmmakers_V.html
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If the human brain were so simple
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |That we could understand it,
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |We would be so simple
|That we couldn't.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Tom Deveson
>Obaue: What's with using "kitchen" as a verb? Is that idiomatic for
>Scottish giants?
I've not heard it yet from a giant, but my old Shorter OED gives a
substantive meaning (chiefly Scottish and Northern) for kitchen as "any
kind of food eaten with bread etc., as a relish." It then gives
'kitchen' as a verb meaning "to serve as 'kitchen' or relish; to season"
which I guess is what the giant was on about. The date given for this
use is 1721, so perhaps Red Etin in 1527 was a bit of a linguistic
pioneer.
There's also an early 1590s Shakespearean use of 'kitchen' as a verb in
*The Comedy of Errors*, a few lines from the end, where it means
'entertain'.
"There is a fat friend at your master's house
That kitchened me for you today at dinner..."
Tom
--
Tom Deveson
Thomas A Lawson
>
> arpe...@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) writes:
>
> > arpe...@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) wrote,
> > in article <8m4b03$7fi$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>:
> > >
> > >
> > >Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum,
> > >I smell the blood of an Englishman.
> > >Be he live or be he dead,
> > >I'll grind his bones to make my bread.
> > >
> > >Apparently it's now a catch-phrase of some sort in some particular
> > >video game, and some young people, having never seen the last part of
> > >the above in renditions of Jack and the Beanstalk that they read, think
> > >it's new and original.
> > >
> > >I had always assumed both story and the particular poem dated back
> > >to antiquity, but, thinking about it again I could believe it was
> > >actually a reasonably recent (i.e. 1940's or so) embellishment in
> > >some particular copyrighted retelling of the tale.
> > >
> > >Anybody happen to feel they know any details?
> >
> > using www.altavista.com a rendition of the tale which claims to be
> > from
> >
> > _The Young Folks Treasury, Volume 1_, The University Society, Inc.,
> > 1909
> >
> > It includes the poem as above, i.e.
> >
> > Fee, fi, fo, fum,
> > Be he alive, or be he dead,
> >
> > I notice it does say "alive" rather than "live", but, then one cannot
> > emphasize the "a" in "alive" too much in recitation, or it ruins the
> > scansion.
>
> Southern Mississippi, and they cover this one at
>
> http://www-dept.usm.edu/~engdept/jack/jackhome.html
>
> (There are other projects on Cinderella and Little Red Riding Hood.)
>
> have the rhyme. The giant says only "Wife, I smell fresh meat". This
> is standard in all the versions they have through 1908. Only the last
> one (marked "before 1919") says
>
> I smell the blood of an
> alive, or let him be dead,
> I'll grind his bones to
> the Giant,
>
> So it would appear that the poem dates back to the early 20th
> century.
>
> Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Which reminded me of my son Peter. When he was about four I
observed him stomping through the house chanting:
"Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum,
I smell the bloody Englishman!"
--
Regards,
Tom Lawson
"Whenever a human institution is in serious trouble it is
invariably because of something simple. Unfortunately, the more
basic and clear-cut the issue is, the more difficult it is for
those responsible to face up to it."
- P S Kelly
Justice on the Edge is a book about crime and punishment in
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