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The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
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30.3.2013 klo 8.42.1330.3.2013
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The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
of
the people on this planet.
The Quran A book you can believe in
The Quran is the most often-read book in the world. Revealed by God to
the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in the 7th century, and
revered by Muslims being God's final Scripture and Testament; its
words have been lovingly recited, memorized, and implemented by
Muslims Of every nationality ever since.
The faithful are inspired, consoled often moved to tears by its
eloquence and poetic imagery, especially when recited aloud. And yet,
the Qur'an is unique in being the only Scripture that is free of
scientific inaccuracies, whose historical authenticity can be
verified, and whose text has been so carefully preserved that just one
authorized version (in Arabic) exists. Approximately the length of the
New Testament, the Qur'an is also the only holy book that can be
memorized in its entirety by people of all ages and intellectual
abilities including non Arabic speakers, which Muslims consider to be
one of its miracles. We invite you to take a few minutes to learn
something about a book that is the foundation of the worldview and
culture of almost one-fourth of the people on this planet.
A Scientific Scripture for a scientific age
One of the most remarkable things about the Qur'an is that it contains
many verses which accurately describe natural phenomena in various
fields such as embryology, astronomy, geology and oceanography.
Scientists have found its descriptions to be inexplicably valid for a
book dating from the 6th century, in fact, many of the processes and
functions mentioned in the Qur'an have been discovered only recently.
This fact alone has been the cause of a number of distinguished
scientists embracing Islam. It never arose in Islam; the Qur'an
repeatedly encourages people to reflect and use their intelligence,
and most Muslim scientists and inventors have also been pious
believers.
Some of the Qur'an's 'scientific' verses include an accurate
description of embryonic development during the first forty days of
life; an explanation that the roots of mountains are like pegs which
help to anchor and stabilize the earth's crust, that a natural barrier
exists wherever two seas meet (each maintains its own salinity,
temperature and density); that waves occur in layers in the depths of
the ocean; that the heavens and earth were first joined together
before being split apart; and that the heavens emerged from "smoke',
i, e, the gases and dust that characterize nebulas as stars are
forming.
The Qur'an was never meant to be a 'science textbook'; whether
highlighting the wonders of nature or the lessons of history, its
verses direct us to reflect on the glory of God, However, no other
ancient book or Scripture is accurate in this way, Muslims believe
that this is one of the Qur'an's proofs; one of the things that makes
it a credible, ' living revelation' for a modern age, and allows it to
reveal itself afresh with passing time.
The Qur'an and the development of knowledge
The word 'Qur'an' means 'recitation'. And the first verse; of the!
Qur'an to be revealed by the Angel Gabriel to the prophet Muhammad was
a command to {Read! In the name of your Lord...}
{اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ...}
Transliteration: Iqra biismi rabbika
This directive to a man who, like most people of the time, could
neither read nor write; marked the beginning of a new age in human
communication, learning, and development. Whereas earlier Scriptures
had been written and passed down by elite circles of priests and
scribes usually long after the death of the religion's founder the
preservation of the Qur'an was a community effort from the beginning,
and it was completed during the Prophet Muhammad's own lifetime. The
Prophet's early followers eagerly memorized and recorded each new
revelation as it was revealed: by the time he passed away, thousands
had memorized the entire Qur'an by heart. Within two years after the
Prophet's death, the first caliph Abu Bakr requested the Prophet's
secretary Zayd to collect all existing copies and fragments of the
Qur'an in one place, in order to compile a standard edition. This
manuscript became the basis for the authorized editions that were
distributed to each Muslim province during the rule of 'Uthman (the
third caliph): remarkably, a few of those early manuscripts have been
preserved and can still be viewed in museums today.
Following the example of the beloved Prophet, who encouraged all
Muslims, male and female, to seek beneficial knowledge, mosques became
centers of learning as well as prayer. The concept of universal, free
basic education originated in Islam; children learned to read, write,
memorize the Qur'an and do basic maths at village mosque schools;
bright students were sent to cities to pursue higher education. The
world's first universities, hospitals and postal services were
established by Muslims. Early caliphs set up institutions like the
'House of Wisdom' in Baghdad, where scholars were paid to translate
scientific, literary and religious works from every known language
into Arabic. It was this open-mindedness that inspired Jews and
Christians under Muslim rule in Spain to translate classical Roman and
Greek texts from Arabic into European languages, sparking the European
Renaissance.
A Book with a Message & a Purpose
Like all books, the Qur'an is a means to convey a message in this
case, a very special message from the Creator to all humanity.
The Qur'an is an 'owner's manual for the human being': whoever wonders
about the purpose of life and their own existence will find to be
guide par excellence.
Building on prior revelations, this Final Testament confirms the age-
old truths of previous Scriptures, but clarifies points of faith where
error or confusion have crept into them over the centuries. Those who
have read the Bible will find much that is familiar: descriptions of
God's handiwork, stories of the Prophets. Satan, angels and the Day of
Judgment, moral and ethical guidelines, and spiritual practices like
prayer and fasting. Yet the Qur'an is not just a re-hashing of old
stones, its perspective is unique and fresh, and its worldview
eminently suited to people of today.
To give one example, according to the Qur'an, God held Adam and Eve
jointly responsible for tasting the forbidden fruit; no special curse
was laid on Eve for leading Adam astray. And no 'original sin' came
into being, to be inherited for all time by innocent children. Adam
and Eve simply sought His forgiveness and were forgiven, and Adam
(peace be upon him) is respected in Islam as the first Prophet.
There are other important distinctions between the Qur'an and the
Bible; the Qur'an asserts that much of the original books of the Bible
and other Scriptures have been lost or corrupted over time (whether
through war fare, political intrigue, religious schisms or other
reasons). One only has to consider the number of different versions of
the Bible in use today, the lack of "first" originals, and the late
discovery of long-lost scriptures like the Dead Sea Scrolls to realize
that this viewpoint is an objective one. The Qur'an rejects the
concept of salvation or special privilege based on ethnicity: God does
not discriminate on the basis of race or colour. It also denies the
need for the sacrifice of innocent life, animal or human in order for
people to attain salvation. It states that Jesus (peace be upon him)
was not crucified as claimed, but that God saved him from his enemies,
as one would expect of God's honoured and beloved Messenger; his life
was meant to be an inspiring example. Spiritual salvation is to be
achieved solely through humble repentance, coupled by an attempt to
make amends for one's sins, and a sincere intention not to repeat
one's mistakes in the future. There is no official priesthood in
Islam, and the Imam is no more than a knowledgeable prayer-leader and
brother in faith; one's sins need only be confessed directly to the
Creator.
The Qur'an's main message is to call people to turn to the Source of
all being and the Giver of life, and to serve Him with a pure heart
free of idolatry or superstition. In Islam, "One God" means just that
there is no concept of trinity, or anything else to complicate one's
understanding Like the single nucleus of a cell or an atom. He alone
is the control centre' behind it all: anything else would lead to
chaos and confusion. God is Unique and without partner; He was not
born and did not give birth; he is All-Compassionate and Merciful,
Almighty and Just, and the only One we need turn to for guidance and
help. Anything that we allow to come between ourselves and our Creator
even our own egos is an idol.
Wealth, fame, physical attraction and all the pleasures of this world
will someday fade, and we will not be able to take them with us when
we die. Only our faith and good deeds will remain, to light our graves
and be a beacon for us on the Day of Judgment.
Although no translation of the Qur'an can faithfully capture its
Arabic meaning (and all Muslims are encouraged to learn Arabic), the
following excerpt illustrates these points beautifully:
{ And recite to them the story of Ibrahim (Abraham). (69) When he said
to his father and his people: "What do you worship?" (70) They said:
"We worship idols, and to them we are ever devoted." (71) He said: "Do
they hear you, when you call (on them)? (72) "Or do they benefit you
or do they harm (you)?" (73) They said: "Nay, but we found our fathers
doing so." (74) He said: "Do you observe that which you have been
worshipping, (75) "You and your ancient fathers? (76) "Verily! They
are enemies to me, save the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and
all that exists); (77) "Who has created me, and it is He Who guides
me; (78) "And it is He Who feeds me and gives me to drink. (79) "And
when I am ill, it is He who cures me. (80) "And Who will cause me to
die, and then will bring me to life (again); (81) "And Who, I hope
will forgive me my faults on the Day of Recompense, (the Day of
Resurrection)," (82) My Lord! Bestow Hukman (religious knowledge,
right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) on me, and join me
with the righteous; (83) And grant me an honourable mention in later
generations; (84) And make me one of the inheritors of the Paradise of
Delight; (85) And forgive my father, verily he is of the erring; (86)
And disgrace me not on the Day when (all the creatures) will be
resurrected; (87) The Day whereon neither wealth nor sons will avail,
(88) Except him who brings to Allah a clean heart [clean from Shirk
(polytheism) and Nifaq (hypocrisy)].} [Ash-Shu’raa’ 26:69-89]
{وَاتْلُ عَلَيْهِمْ نَبَأَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ ﴿٦٩﴾ إِذْ قَالَ لِأَبِيهِ
وَقَوْمِهِ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ ﴿٧٠﴾ قَالُوا نَعْبُدُ أَصْنَامًا فَنَظَلُّ
لَهَا عَاكِفِينَ ﴿٧١﴾ قَالَ هَلْ يَسْمَعُونَكُمْ إِذْ تَدْعُونَ ﴿
٧٢﴾ أَوْ يَنفَعُونَكُمْ أَوْ يَضُرُّونَ ﴿٧٣﴾ قَالُوا بَلْ وَجَدْنَا
آبَاءَنَا كَذَٰلِكَ يَفْعَلُونَ ﴿٧٤﴾ قَالَ أَفَرَأَيْتُم مَّا كُنتُمْ
تَعْبُدُونَ ﴿٧٥﴾ أَنتُمْ وَآبَاؤُكُمُ الْأَقْدَمُونَ ﴿٧٦﴾ فَإِنَّهُمْ
عَدُوٌّ لِّي إِلَّا رَبَّ الْعَالَمِينَ ﴿٧٧﴾ الَّذِي خَلَقَنِي فَهُوَ
يَهْدِينِ ﴿٧٨﴾ وَالَّذِي هُوَ يُطْعِمُنِي وَيَسْقِينِ ﴿٧٩﴾ وَإِذَا
مَرِضْتُ فَهُوَ يَشْفِينِ ﴿٨٠﴾ وَالَّذِي يُمِيتُنِي ثُمَّ يُحْيِينِ ﴿
٨١﴾ وَالَّذِي أَطْمَعُ أَن يَغْفِرَ لِي خَطِيئَتِي يَوْمَ الدِّينِ ﴿
٨٢﴾ رَبِّ هَبْ لِي حُكْمًا وَأَلْحِقْنِي بِالصَّالِحِينَ ﴿٨٣﴾ وَاجْعَل
لِّي لِسَانَ صِدْقٍ فِي الْآخِرِينَ ﴿٨٤﴾ وَاجْعَلْنِي مِن وَرَثَةِ
جَنَّةِ النَّعِيمِ ﴿٨٥﴾ وَاغْفِرْ لِأَبِي إِنَّهُ كَانَ مِنَ
الضَّالِّينَ ﴿٨٦﴾ وَلَا تُخْزِنِي يَوْمَ يُبْعَثُونَ ﴿٨٧﴾ يَوْمَ لَا
يَنفَعُ مَالٌ وَلَا بَنُونَ ﴿٨٨﴾ إِلَّا مَنْ أَتَى اللَّـهَ بِقَلْبٍ
سَلِيمٍ} الشعراء: 69-89
Transliteration: Waotlu AAalayhim nabaa ibraheema (69) Ith qala
liabeehi waqawmihi ma taAAbudoona (70) Qaloo naAAbudu asnaman
fanathallu laha AAakifeena (71) Qala hal yasmaAAoonakum ith tadAAoona
(72) Aw yanfaAAoonakum aw yadurroona (73) Qaloo bal wajadnaabaana
kathalika yafAAaloona (74) Qala afaraaytum makuntum taAAbudoona (75)
Antum waabaokumu alaqdamoona (76) Fainnahum AAaduwwun lee illa rabba
alAAalameena (77) Allathee khalaqanee fahuwa yahdeeni(78) Waallathee
huwa yutAAimunee wayasqeeni (79)Waitha maridtu fahuwa yashfeeni (80)
Waallathee yumeetunee thumma yuhyeeni (81) Waallathee atmaAAu an
yaghfira lee khateeatee yawma alddeeni (82) Rabbi hab lee hukman
waalhiqnee bialssaliheena (83)WaijAAal lee lisana sidqin fee
alakhireena (84)WaijAAalnee min warathati jannati alnnaAAeemi
(85)Waighfir liabee innahu kana mina alddalleena (86) Walatukhzinee
yawma yubAAathoona (87) Yawma layanfaAAu malun wala banoona (88) Illa
man ata Allaha biqalbin saleemin
http://en.islamway.net/article/12393
thank you
We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
of
the people on this planet.
The Quran A book you can believe in
The Quran is the most often-read book in the world. Revealed by God to
the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in the 7th century, and
revered by Muslims being God's final Scripture and Testament; its
words have been lovingly recited, memorized, and implemented by
Muslims Of every nationality ever since.
The faithful are inspired, consoled often moved to tears by its
eloquence and poetic imagery, especially when recited aloud. And yet,
the Qur'an is unique in being the only Scripture that is free of
scientific inaccuracies, whose historical authenticity can be
verified, and whose text has been so carefully preserved that just one
authorized version (in Arabic) exists. Approximately the length of the
New Testament, the Qur'an is also the only holy book that can be
memorized in its entirety by people of all ages and intellectual
abilities including non Arabic speakers, which Muslims consider to be
one of its miracles. We invite you to take a few minutes to learn
something about a book that is the foundation of the worldview and
culture of almost one-fourth of the people on this planet.
A Scientific Scripture for a scientific age
One of the most remarkable things about the Qur'an is that it contains
many verses which accurately describe natural phenomena in various
fields such as embryology, astronomy, geology and oceanography.
Scientists have found its descriptions to be inexplicably valid for a
book dating from the 6th century, in fact, many of the processes and
functions mentioned in the Qur'an have been discovered only recently.
This fact alone has been the cause of a number of distinguished
scientists embracing Islam. It never arose in Islam; the Qur'an
repeatedly encourages people to reflect and use their intelligence,
and most Muslim scientists and inventors have also been pious
believers.
Some of the Qur'an's 'scientific' verses include an accurate
description of embryonic development during the first forty days of
life; an explanation that the roots of mountains are like pegs which
help to anchor and stabilize the earth's crust, that a natural barrier
exists wherever two seas meet (each maintains its own salinity,
temperature and density); that waves occur in layers in the depths of
the ocean; that the heavens and earth were first joined together
before being split apart; and that the heavens emerged from "smoke',
i, e, the gases and dust that characterize nebulas as stars are
forming.
The Qur'an was never meant to be a 'science textbook'; whether
highlighting the wonders of nature or the lessons of history, its
verses direct us to reflect on the glory of God, However, no other
ancient book or Scripture is accurate in this way, Muslims believe
that this is one of the Qur'an's proofs; one of the things that makes
it a credible, ' living revelation' for a modern age, and allows it to
reveal itself afresh with passing time.
The Qur'an and the development of knowledge
The word 'Qur'an' means 'recitation'. And the first verse; of the!
Qur'an to be revealed by the Angel Gabriel to the prophet Muhammad was
a command to {Read! In the name of your Lord...}
{اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ...}
Transliteration: Iqra biismi rabbika
This directive to a man who, like most people of the time, could
neither read nor write; marked the beginning of a new age in human
communication, learning, and development. Whereas earlier Scriptures
had been written and passed down by elite circles of priests and
scribes usually long after the death of the religion's founder the
preservation of the Qur'an was a community effort from the beginning,
and it was completed during the Prophet Muhammad's own lifetime. The
Prophet's early followers eagerly memorized and recorded each new
revelation as it was revealed: by the time he passed away, thousands
had memorized the entire Qur'an by heart. Within two years after the
Prophet's death, the first caliph Abu Bakr requested the Prophet's
secretary Zayd to collect all existing copies and fragments of the
Qur'an in one place, in order to compile a standard edition. This
manuscript became the basis for the authorized editions that were
distributed to each Muslim province during the rule of 'Uthman (the
third caliph): remarkably, a few of those early manuscripts have been
preserved and can still be viewed in museums today.
Following the example of the beloved Prophet, who encouraged all
Muslims, male and female, to seek beneficial knowledge, mosques became
centers of learning as well as prayer. The concept of universal, free
basic education originated in Islam; children learned to read, write,
memorize the Qur'an and do basic maths at village mosque schools;
bright students were sent to cities to pursue higher education. The
world's first universities, hospitals and postal services were
established by Muslims. Early caliphs set up institutions like the
'House of Wisdom' in Baghdad, where scholars were paid to translate
scientific, literary and religious works from every known language
into Arabic. It was this open-mindedness that inspired Jews and
Christians under Muslim rule in Spain to translate classical Roman and
Greek texts from Arabic into European languages, sparking the European
Renaissance.
A Book with a Message & a Purpose
Like all books, the Qur'an is a means to convey a message in this
case, a very special message from the Creator to all humanity.
The Qur'an is an 'owner's manual for the human being': whoever wonders
about the purpose of life and their own existence will find to be
guide par excellence.
Building on prior revelations, this Final Testament confirms the age-
old truths of previous Scriptures, but clarifies points of faith where
error or confusion have crept into them over the centuries. Those who
have read the Bible will find much that is familiar: descriptions of
God's handiwork, stories of the Prophets. Satan, angels and the Day of
Judgment, moral and ethical guidelines, and spiritual practices like
prayer and fasting. Yet the Qur'an is not just a re-hashing of old
stones, its perspective is unique and fresh, and its worldview
eminently suited to people of today.
To give one example, according to the Qur'an, God held Adam and Eve
jointly responsible for tasting the forbidden fruit; no special curse
was laid on Eve for leading Adam astray. And no 'original sin' came
into being, to be inherited for all time by innocent children. Adam
and Eve simply sought His forgiveness and were forgiven, and Adam
(peace be upon him) is respected in Islam as the first Prophet.
There are other important distinctions between the Qur'an and the
Bible; the Qur'an asserts that much of the original books of the Bible
and other Scriptures have been lost or corrupted over time (whether
through war fare, political intrigue, religious schisms or other
reasons). One only has to consider the number of different versions of
the Bible in use today, the lack of "first" originals, and the late
discovery of long-lost scriptures like the Dead Sea Scrolls to realize
that this viewpoint is an objective one. The Qur'an rejects the
concept of salvation or special privilege based on ethnicity: God does
not discriminate on the basis of race or colour. It also denies the
need for the sacrifice of innocent life, animal or human in order for
people to attain salvation. It states that Jesus (peace be upon him)
was not crucified as claimed, but that God saved him from his enemies,
as one would expect of God's honoured and beloved Messenger; his life
was meant to be an inspiring example. Spiritual salvation is to be
achieved solely through humble repentance, coupled by an attempt to
make amends for one's sins, and a sincere intention not to repeat
one's mistakes in the future. There is no official priesthood in
Islam, and the Imam is no more than a knowledgeable prayer-leader and
brother in faith; one's sins need only be confessed directly to the
Creator.
The Qur'an's main message is to call people to turn to the Source of
all being and the Giver of life, and to serve Him with a pure heart
free of idolatry or superstition. In Islam, "One God" means just that
there is no concept of trinity, or anything else to complicate one's
understanding Like the single nucleus of a cell or an atom. He alone
is the control centre' behind it all: anything else would lead to
chaos and confusion. God is Unique and without partner; He was not
born and did not give birth; he is All-Compassionate and Merciful,
Almighty and Just, and the only One we need turn to for guidance and
help. Anything that we allow to come between ourselves and our Creator
even our own egos is an idol.
Wealth, fame, physical attraction and all the pleasures of this world
will someday fade, and we will not be able to take them with us when
we die. Only our faith and good deeds will remain, to light our graves
and be a beacon for us on the Day of Judgment.
Although no translation of the Qur'an can faithfully capture its
Arabic meaning (and all Muslims are encouraged to learn Arabic), the
following excerpt illustrates these points beautifully:
{ And recite to them the story of Ibrahim (Abraham). (69) When he said
to his father and his people: "What do you worship?" (70) They said:
"We worship idols, and to them we are ever devoted." (71) He said: "Do
they hear you, when you call (on them)? (72) "Or do they benefit you
or do they harm (you)?" (73) They said: "Nay, but we found our fathers
doing so." (74) He said: "Do you observe that which you have been
worshipping, (75) "You and your ancient fathers? (76) "Verily! They
are enemies to me, save the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and
all that exists); (77) "Who has created me, and it is He Who guides
me; (78) "And it is He Who feeds me and gives me to drink. (79) "And
when I am ill, it is He who cures me. (80) "And Who will cause me to
die, and then will bring me to life (again); (81) "And Who, I hope
will forgive me my faults on the Day of Recompense, (the Day of
Resurrection)," (82) My Lord! Bestow Hukman (religious knowledge,
right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) on me, and join me
with the righteous; (83) And grant me an honourable mention in later
generations; (84) And make me one of the inheritors of the Paradise of
Delight; (85) And forgive my father, verily he is of the erring; (86)
And disgrace me not on the Day when (all the creatures) will be
resurrected; (87) The Day whereon neither wealth nor sons will avail,
(88) Except him who brings to Allah a clean heart [clean from Shirk
(polytheism) and Nifaq (hypocrisy)].} [Ash-Shu’raa’ 26:69-89]
{وَاتْلُ عَلَيْهِمْ نَبَأَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ ﴿٦٩﴾ إِذْ قَالَ لِأَبِيهِ
وَقَوْمِهِ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ ﴿٧٠﴾ قَالُوا نَعْبُدُ أَصْنَامًا فَنَظَلُّ
لَهَا عَاكِفِينَ ﴿٧١﴾ قَالَ هَلْ يَسْمَعُونَكُمْ إِذْ تَدْعُونَ ﴿
٧٢﴾ أَوْ يَنفَعُونَكُمْ أَوْ يَضُرُّونَ ﴿٧٣﴾ قَالُوا بَلْ وَجَدْنَا
آبَاءَنَا كَذَٰلِكَ يَفْعَلُونَ ﴿٧٤﴾ قَالَ أَفَرَأَيْتُم مَّا كُنتُمْ
تَعْبُدُونَ ﴿٧٥﴾ أَنتُمْ وَآبَاؤُكُمُ الْأَقْدَمُونَ ﴿٧٦﴾ فَإِنَّهُمْ
عَدُوٌّ لِّي إِلَّا رَبَّ الْعَالَمِينَ ﴿٧٧﴾ الَّذِي خَلَقَنِي فَهُوَ
يَهْدِينِ ﴿٧٨﴾ وَالَّذِي هُوَ يُطْعِمُنِي وَيَسْقِينِ ﴿٧٩﴾ وَإِذَا
مَرِضْتُ فَهُوَ يَشْفِينِ ﴿٨٠﴾ وَالَّذِي يُمِيتُنِي ثُمَّ يُحْيِينِ ﴿
٨١﴾ وَالَّذِي أَطْمَعُ أَن يَغْفِرَ لِي خَطِيئَتِي يَوْمَ الدِّينِ ﴿
٨٢﴾ رَبِّ هَبْ لِي حُكْمًا وَأَلْحِقْنِي بِالصَّالِحِينَ ﴿٨٣﴾ وَاجْعَل
لِّي لِسَانَ صِدْقٍ فِي الْآخِرِينَ ﴿٨٤﴾ وَاجْعَلْنِي مِن وَرَثَةِ
جَنَّةِ النَّعِيمِ ﴿٨٥﴾ وَاغْفِرْ لِأَبِي إِنَّهُ كَانَ مِنَ
الضَّالِّينَ ﴿٨٦﴾ وَلَا تُخْزِنِي يَوْمَ يُبْعَثُونَ ﴿٨٧﴾ يَوْمَ لَا
يَنفَعُ مَالٌ وَلَا بَنُونَ ﴿٨٨﴾ إِلَّا مَنْ أَتَى اللَّـهَ بِقَلْبٍ
سَلِيمٍ} الشعراء: 69-89
Transliteration: Waotlu AAalayhim nabaa ibraheema (69) Ith qala
liabeehi waqawmihi ma taAAbudoona (70) Qaloo naAAbudu asnaman
fanathallu laha AAakifeena (71) Qala hal yasmaAAoonakum ith tadAAoona
(72) Aw yanfaAAoonakum aw yadurroona (73) Qaloo bal wajadnaabaana
kathalika yafAAaloona (74) Qala afaraaytum makuntum taAAbudoona (75)
Antum waabaokumu alaqdamoona (76) Fainnahum AAaduwwun lee illa rabba
alAAalameena (77) Allathee khalaqanee fahuwa yahdeeni(78) Waallathee
huwa yutAAimunee wayasqeeni (79)Waitha maridtu fahuwa yashfeeni (80)
Waallathee yumeetunee thumma yuhyeeni (81) Waallathee atmaAAu an
yaghfira lee khateeatee yawma alddeeni (82) Rabbi hab lee hukman
waalhiqnee bialssaliheena (83)WaijAAal lee lisana sidqin fee
alakhireena (84)WaijAAalnee min warathati jannati alnnaAAeemi
(85)Waighfir liabee innahu kana mina alddalleena (86) Walatukhzinee
yawma yubAAathoona (87) Yawma layanfaAAu malun wala banoona (88) Illa
man ata Allaha biqalbin saleemin
http://en.islamway.net/article/12393
thank you
bert
30.3.2013 klo 9.44.3030.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On Saturday, 30 March 2013 12:42:13 UTC, BV BV wrote:
> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> of the people on this planet.
Does this people's culture include a belief that it is acceptable
> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> of the people on this planet.
to so persistently pollute a factual newgroup with material quite
unrelated to it?
--
Curlytop
30.3.2013 klo 9.53.3730.3.2013
vastaanottaja
BV BV set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
>
> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> of
> the people on this planet.
>
> The Quran A book you can believe in
In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
I am a Christian, but I have a "copy" (English translation) of the Qur'an
which I do study fairly regularly.
In fact I find much practical wisdom therein. The opening prayer for divine
guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have to
be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we have
to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God" (we
certainly don't), and that it "ill beseemeth God to beget a son" (and this
weekend in particular, we are commemorating the Death and Resurrection of
the Son of God). On the other hand, the frequent calls to regular prayer
and to give alms, are much to be commended.
[1] I have used this prayer as one of the "sample texts" for my fantasy
language Hallon. Check out
http://webspace.webring.com/people/tp/prai_jei/ubim_puvasha.htm - "Ubim
Puvasha" is Hallon for "the Opening of the Book", one of the names by which
this prayer is known by Muslims.
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
>
> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> of
> the people on this planet.
>
> The Quran A book you can believe in
I am a Christian, but I have a "copy" (English translation) of the Qur'an
which I do study fairly regularly.
In fact I find much practical wisdom therein. The opening prayer for divine
guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have to
be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we have
to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God" (we
certainly don't), and that it "ill beseemeth God to beget a son" (and this
weekend in particular, we are commemorating the Death and Resurrection of
the Son of God). On the other hand, the frequent calls to regular prayer
and to give alms, are much to be commended.
[1] I have used this prayer as one of the "sample texts" for my fantasy
language Hallon. Check out
http://webspace.webring.com/people/tp/prai_jei/ubim_puvasha.htm - "Ubim
Puvasha" is Hallon for "the Opening of the Book", one of the names by which
this prayer is known by Muslims.
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Athel Cornish-Bowden
30.3.2013 klo 10.43.2330.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On 2013-03-30 13:53:37 +0000, Curlytop said:
> BV BV set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
>
>> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>>
>>
>> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
>> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
>> of
>> the people on this planet.
>>
>> The Quran A book you can believe in
>
> In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
>
> I am a Christian, but I have a "copy" (English translation) of the Qur'an
> which I do study fairly regularly.
>
> In fact I find much practical wisdom therein.
Interesting. I bought an English translation of the Koran (as we wrote
> BV BV set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
>
>> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>>
>>
>> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
>> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
>> of
>> the people on this planet.
>>
>> The Quran A book you can believe in
>
> In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
>
> I am a Christian, but I have a "copy" (English translation) of the Qur'an
> which I do study fairly regularly.
>
> In fact I find much practical wisdom therein.
it in those far-off days) in the days when I was a Christian, but I
found it largely unreadable, with nothing I'd call practical wisdom.
Probably I should look at it again (if I can find it).
> The opening prayer for divine
> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have to
> be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we have
> to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God" (we
> certainly don't),
> and that it "ill beseemeth God to beget a son" (and this
> weekend in particular, we are commemorating the Death and Resurrection of
> the Son of God). On the other hand, the frequent calls to regular prayer
> and to give alms, are much to be commended.
>
>
>
> [1] I have used this prayer as one of the "sample texts" for my fantasy
> language Hallon. Check out
> http://webspace.webring.com/people/tp/prai_jei/ubim_puvasha.htm - "Ubim
> Puvasha" is Hallon for "the Opening of the Book", one of the names by which
> this prayer is known by Muslims.
--
Arcadian Rises
30.3.2013 klo 11.24.5030.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On Mar 30, 8:42 am, BV BV <bv8bv8...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> of
> the people on this planet.
>
> The Quran A book you can believe in
I have to take your word for it because I don't know Arabic to be able
> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> of
> the people on this planet.
>
> The Quran A book you can believe in
to read the only authorized version.
>
> The faithful are inspired, consoled often moved to tears by its
> eloquence and poetic imagery, especially when recited aloud. And yet,
> the Qur'an is unique in being the only Scripture that is free of
> scientific inaccuracies, whose historical authenticity can be
> verified, and whose text has been so carefully preserved that just one
> authorized version (in Arabic) exists.
Curlytop
30.3.2013 klo 11.38.1130.3.2013
vastaanottaja
Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
space-time continuum:
>> The opening prayer for divine
>> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have
>> to be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we
>> have to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God"
>> (we certainly don't),
>
> What does that mean?
Note the distinction between "gods" (with a small g) and "God" (with a
capitaL g). In the early days of Islam, Arabia was mostly pagan and
polytheistic. Islam stresses that there is just one God, and any other
entity that is worshipped must be a false god. Many of the early converts
accepted the idea of one God but refused to give up their pagan ways. The
Qur'an repeats many times the warning against "joining gods with God", i.e.
mixing supposed faith in the One God, with pagan practices where a
multitude of gods was worshipped.
Unfortunately, the Qur'an also accuses Christians of worshipping a plurality
of gods. Perhaps the technical aspects of the Trinity were too much for
Mohammed (peace be upon him) to grasp. We therefore strongly deny the
allegation, proclaiming that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are
One God, with Whom we join no other.
space-time continuum:
>> The opening prayer for divine
>> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have
>> to be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we
>> have to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God"
>> (we certainly don't),
>
> What does that mean?
capitaL g). In the early days of Islam, Arabia was mostly pagan and
polytheistic. Islam stresses that there is just one God, and any other
entity that is worshipped must be a false god. Many of the early converts
accepted the idea of one God but refused to give up their pagan ways. The
Qur'an repeats many times the warning against "joining gods with God", i.e.
mixing supposed faith in the One God, with pagan practices where a
multitude of gods was worshipped.
Unfortunately, the Qur'an also accuses Christians of worshipping a plurality
of gods. Perhaps the technical aspects of the Trinity were too much for
Mohammed (peace be upon him) to grasp. We therefore strongly deny the
allegation, proclaiming that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are
One God, with Whom we join no other.
Arcadian Rises
30.3.2013 klo 11.47.0830.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On Mar 30, 11:38 am, Curlytop <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> Perhaps the technical aspects of the Trinity were too much for
> Mohammed (peace be upon him) to grasp. We therefore strongly deny the
> allegation, proclaiming that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are
> One God, with Whom we join no other.
What about Vergin Mary and an army of saints who are each worshiped in
churches named after them?
"Ave Maria, Gratia plena" - one of the most beautiful prayers
(especially when it's sung) is not dedicated to the One and Only God;
And Jesus is mentioned as "fructus ventris tui".
wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
> space-time continuum:
>
> >> The opening prayer for divine
> >> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have
> >> to be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we
> >> have to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God"
> >> (we certainly don't),
>
> > What does that mean?
>
> Note the distinction between "gods" (with a small g) and "God" (with a
> capitaL g). In the early days of Islam, Arabia was mostly pagan and
> polytheistic. Islam stresses that there is just one God, and any other
> entity that is worshipped must be a false god. Many of the early converts
> accepted the idea of one God but refused to give up their pagan ways. The
> Qur'an repeats many times the warning against "joining gods with God", i.e.
> mixing supposed faith in the One God, with pagan practices where a
> multitude of gods was worshipped.
>
> Unfortunately, the Qur'an also accuses Christians of worshipping a plurality
> of gods.
It may have a point.
> space-time continuum:
>
> >> The opening prayer for divine
> >> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have
> >> to be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we
> >> have to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God"
> >> (we certainly don't),
>
> > What does that mean?
>
> Note the distinction between "gods" (with a small g) and "God" (with a
> capitaL g). In the early days of Islam, Arabia was mostly pagan and
> polytheistic. Islam stresses that there is just one God, and any other
> entity that is worshipped must be a false god. Many of the early converts
> accepted the idea of one God but refused to give up their pagan ways. The
> Qur'an repeats many times the warning against "joining gods with God", i.e.
> mixing supposed faith in the One God, with pagan practices where a
> multitude of gods was worshipped.
>
> Unfortunately, the Qur'an also accuses Christians of worshipping a plurality
> of gods.
> Perhaps the technical aspects of the Trinity were too much for
> Mohammed (peace be upon him) to grasp. We therefore strongly deny the
> allegation, proclaiming that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are
> One God, with Whom we join no other.
churches named after them?
"Ave Maria, Gratia plena" - one of the most beautiful prayers
(especially when it's sung) is not dedicated to the One and Only God;
And Jesus is mentioned as "fructus ventris tui".
the Omrud
30.3.2013 klo 12.02.4330.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On 30/03/2013 15:38, Curlytop wrote:
> Unfortunately, the Qur'an also accuses Christians of worshipping a plurality
> of gods. Perhaps the technical aspects of the Trinity were too much for
> Mohammed (peace be upon him) to grasp. We therefore strongly deny the
> allegation, proclaiming that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are
> One God, with Whom we join no other.
When we lived in Manchester, I was a governor of the local primary
> Unfortunately, the Qur'an also accuses Christians of worshipping a plurality
> of gods. Perhaps the technical aspects of the Trinity were too much for
> Mohammed (peace be upon him) to grasp. We therefore strongly deny the
> allegation, proclaiming that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are
> One God, with Whom we join no other.
school, which was nominally CoE with the vicar as Chair of Governors but
had a majority of Muslim children and smaller numbers of several other
faiths, as well as a significant number of children of middle-class
atheists of many racial backgrounds.
The vicar and the school had a policy of inclusion - all the children
were encourated to take part in activites realting to all faiths. We
talked to representatives of the Muslim parents - they were happy for
their children to join in with faith activities of Sikh, Rastafarian,
etc, etc. For Christianity, they were content for their children to
join activities relating to Christmas and Easter, sing Christian hymns,
say Christian prayers, but they were absolutely terrified that we would
teach their children about the Trinity. The governors were happy to
leave this component out of collective worship.
--
David
Athel Cornish-Bowden
30.3.2013 klo 12.37.3930.3.2013
vastaanottaja
--
athel
Curlytop
30.3.2013 klo 12.51.0530.3.2013
vastaanottaja
Arcadian Rises set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:
>> Unfortunately, the Qur'an also accuses Christians of worshipping a
>> plurality of gods.
>
> It may have a point.
>
>> Perhaps the technical aspects of the Trinity were too much for
>> Mohammed (peace be upon him) to grasp. We therefore strongly deny the
>> allegation, proclaiming that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are
>> One God, with Whom we join no other.
>
> What about Vergin Mary and an army of saints who are each worshiped in
> churches named after them?
>
> "Ave Maria, Gratia plena" - one of the most beautiful prayers
> (especially when it's sung) is not dedicated to the One and Only God;
> And Jesus is mentioned as "fructus ventris tui".
We "venerate" not "worship" the Saints. We remember them, and commemorate
their anniversaries, because they are examples of Godly life, sources of
Godly teaching, or examples of how the power of faith can overcome the
worst that this mortal life can throw at us.
The punchline of the Ave Maria is "Ora pro nobis" - "Pray for us". The
Virgin Mary is not to us a goddess, but a mortal woman who has passed away
(see the "Euphemism" thread) and this antiphon asks that she, being in some
sense closer to God than we are, could put in a word for us.
The Regina Caeli, the antiphon sung instead at Easter time, makes this point
even more explicit in its final line;
Regina Caeli, laetare. Alleluia
Quia quem meruisti portare. Alleluia
Resurrexit sicut dixit. Alleluia
Ora pro nobis Deum. Alleluia.
In my fantasy language Hallon, the text was made to rhyme virtually without
any effort on my part:
Jeima Shofim, cui u eva. Alleluia.
Shegu eva piol Na. Alleluia
Shegus voi ji li u reva. Alleluia
Dos baloi u Shut vul ha. Alleluia.
Note that in the second line it is Shegu ("He Who") and Na (a follow-up to
Shegu with no direct counterpart in English) that carry the divine
capitals, not eva ("you") which is deliberately not capitalised.
Here is the usual sung English version:
Joy to thee, O Queen of Heaven. Alleluia.
He Whom thou wast meet to bear, Alleluia
As He promised hath arisen. Alleluia.
Pour for us to God thy prayer. Alleluia.
continuum:
>> Unfortunately, the Qur'an also accuses Christians of worshipping a
>> plurality of gods.
>
> It may have a point.
>
>> Perhaps the technical aspects of the Trinity were too much for
>> Mohammed (peace be upon him) to grasp. We therefore strongly deny the
>> allegation, proclaiming that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are
>> One God, with Whom we join no other.
>
> What about Vergin Mary and an army of saints who are each worshiped in
> churches named after them?
>
> "Ave Maria, Gratia plena" - one of the most beautiful prayers
> (especially when it's sung) is not dedicated to the One and Only God;
> And Jesus is mentioned as "fructus ventris tui".
their anniversaries, because they are examples of Godly life, sources of
Godly teaching, or examples of how the power of faith can overcome the
worst that this mortal life can throw at us.
The punchline of the Ave Maria is "Ora pro nobis" - "Pray for us". The
Virgin Mary is not to us a goddess, but a mortal woman who has passed away
(see the "Euphemism" thread) and this antiphon asks that she, being in some
sense closer to God than we are, could put in a word for us.
The Regina Caeli, the antiphon sung instead at Easter time, makes this point
even more explicit in its final line;
Regina Caeli, laetare. Alleluia
Quia quem meruisti portare. Alleluia
Resurrexit sicut dixit. Alleluia
Ora pro nobis Deum. Alleluia.
In my fantasy language Hallon, the text was made to rhyme virtually without
any effort on my part:
Jeima Shofim, cui u eva. Alleluia.
Shegu eva piol Na. Alleluia
Shegus voi ji li u reva. Alleluia
Dos baloi u Shut vul ha. Alleluia.
Note that in the second line it is Shegu ("He Who") and Na (a follow-up to
Shegu with no direct counterpart in English) that carry the divine
capitals, not eva ("you") which is deliberately not capitalised.
Here is the usual sung English version:
Joy to thee, O Queen of Heaven. Alleluia.
He Whom thou wast meet to bear, Alleluia
As He promised hath arisen. Alleluia.
Pour for us to God thy prayer. Alleluia.
Skitt
30.3.2013 klo 13.36.0430.3.2013
vastaanottaja
numbers don't matter to me in the slightest. In fact, I don't worship
anything.
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html
R H Draney
30.3.2013 klo 13.43.3430.3.2013
vastaanottaja
Curlytop filted:
repeated, but I've never been able to discern any difference between what one
has to do to "worship" one thing and "venerate" another....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>We "venerate" not "worship" the Saints. We remember them, and commemorate
>their anniversaries, because they are examples of Godly life, sources of
>Godly teaching, or examples of how the power of faith can overcome the
>worst that this mortal life can throw at us.
I've heard this claim enough times in my life that there's no need to have it
>We "venerate" not "worship" the Saints. We remember them, and commemorate
>their anniversaries, because they are examples of Godly life, sources of
>Godly teaching, or examples of how the power of faith can overcome the
>worst that this mortal life can throw at us.
repeated, but I've never been able to discern any difference between what one
has to do to "worship" one thing and "venerate" another....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Evan Kirshenbaum
30.3.2013 klo 14.13.2730.3.2013
vastaanottaja
hope that you will use your power as a god to benefit us". You
venerate somebody by saying "We think you are/were really great", in
some religions adding "and, by the way, we'd appreciate it if you
could use your pull with the gods to convince them to use their powers
to benefit us".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |Marge: You liked Rashomon.
SF Bay Area (1982-) |Homer: That's not how *I* remember
Chicago (1964-1982) | it.
evan.kir...@gmail.com
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Arcadian Rises
30.3.2013 klo 21.32.5130.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On Mar 30, 2:13 pm, Evan Kirshenbaum <evan.kirshenb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> evan.kirshenb...@gmail.com
>
> http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Right, the saints intercede in your behalf, but sometimes the
interceders have more impact on your fate than the big boss - like
the secretary (can I still use this job description?), or the judges'
clerks who rule the world.
But I'm preaching to the choir, it seems you already know all those
answers and defenses
wrote:
>
> http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Right, the saints intercede in your behalf, but sometimes the
interceders have more impact on your fate than the big boss - like
the secretary (can I still use this job description?), or the judges'
clerks who rule the world.
But I'm preaching to the choir, it seems you already know all those
answers and defenses
Peter Brooks
31.3.2013 klo 3.29.1231.3.2013
vastaanottaja
a monotheist, you 'worship' one of your gods and 'venerate' the rest.
R H Draney
31.3.2013 klo 4.05.5731.3.2013
vastaanottaja
Peter Brooks filted:
>> >We "venerate" not "worship" the Saints. We remember them, and commemorat=
>e it
>> repeated, but I've never been able to discern any difference between what=
>> >We "venerate" not "worship" the Saints. We remember them, and commemorat=
>e
>> >their anniversaries, because they are examples of Godly life, sources of
>> >Godly teaching, or examples of how the power of faith can overcome the
>> >worst that this mortal life can throw at us.
>>
>> I've heard this claim enough times in my life that there's no need to hav=
>> >their anniversaries, because they are examples of Godly life, sources of
>> >Godly teaching, or examples of how the power of faith can overcome the
>> >worst that this mortal life can throw at us.
>>
>e it
>> repeated, but I've never been able to discern any difference between what=
> one
>> has to do to "worship" one thing and "venerate" another....r
>>
>I think that there's an obvious pattern. In order to claim that you're
>a monotheist, you 'worship' one of your gods and 'venerate' the rest.
This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>> has to do to "worship" one thing and "venerate" another....r
>>
>I think that there's an obvious pattern. In order to claim that you're
>a monotheist, you 'worship' one of your gods and 'venerate' the rest.
Yusuf B Gursey
31.3.2013 klo 4.51.0131.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On Mar 30, 9:53 am, Curlytop <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> BV BV set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
>
> > The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
> > We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> > that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> > of
> > the people on this planet.
>
> > The Quran A book you can believe in
>
> In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
>
> I am a Christian, but I have a "copy" (English translation) of the Qur'an
> which I do study fairly regularly.
>
> In fact I find much practical wisdom therein. The opening prayer for divine
> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have to
in fact, western scholars say there are much Christian elements in it.
> BV BV set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
>
> > The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
> > We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> > that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> > of
> > the people on this planet.
>
> > The Quran A book you can believe in
>
> In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
>
> I am a Christian, but I have a "copy" (English translation) of the Qur'an
> which I do study fairly regularly.
>
> In fact I find much practical wisdom therein. The opening prayer for divine
> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have to
> be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we have
> to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God" (we
> certainly don't), and that it "ill beseemeth God to beget a son" (and this
> weekend in particular, we are commemorating the Death and Resurrection of
> the Son of God). On the other hand, the frequent calls to regular prayer
> and to give alms, are much to be commended.
>
> [1] I have used this prayer as one of the "sample texts" for my fantasy
Yusuf B Gursey
31.3.2013 klo 5.07.5131.3.2013
vastaanottaja
> Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
> space-time continuum:
>
> >> The opening prayer for divine
> >> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have
> >> to be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we
> >> have to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God"
> >> (we certainly don't),
>
> > What does that mean?
>
> Note the distinction between "gods" (with a small g) and "God" (with a
> capitaL g). In the early days of Islam, Arabia was mostly pagan and
> polytheistic. Islam stresses that there is just one God, and any other
> entity that is worshipped must be a false god. Many of the early converts
> accepted the idea of one God but refused to give up their pagan ways. The
> Qur'an repeats many times the warning against "joining gods with God", i.e.
"associating" or "making"
> space-time continuum:
>
> >> The opening prayer for divine
> >> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have
> >> to be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we
> >> have to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God"
> >> (we certainly don't),
>
> > What does that mean?
>
> Note the distinction between "gods" (with a small g) and "God" (with a
> capitaL g). In the early days of Islam, Arabia was mostly pagan and
> polytheistic. Islam stresses that there is just one God, and any other
> entity that is worshipped must be a false god. Many of the early converts
> accepted the idea of one God but refused to give up their pagan ways. The
> Qur'an repeats many times the warning against "joining gods with God", i.e.
> mixing supposed faith in the One God, with pagan practices where a
> multitude of gods was worshipped.
contraction of al-'ila:h "The Deity" and this was also the name used
by Arab Christians and Jews (and local monotheistic religions) for the
one God of the Bible. however, for daily worship they prayed to other
subordinate deities, male and female. by the time of Muhammad they had
come to be regarded as sons or daughters of the Supreme Deity, Allah.
these beliefs alluded to in the Qur'an are confirmed by epigraphic
evidence found in Arabia and South Arabia. that's why the polytheists
are called "associators" (mushrikun), because they "asscoiate" other
deities with the Supreme Deity and the Qur'anic that God was not
begotten nor did beget.
Yusuf B Gursey
31.3.2013 klo 5.43.4231.3.2013
vastaanottaja
> Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
> space-time continuum:
>
> >> The opening prayer for divine
> >> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have
> >> to be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we
> >> have to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God"
> >> (we certainly don't),
>
> > What does that mean?
>
> Note the distinction between "gods" (with a small g) and "God" (with a
> capitaL g). In the early days of Islam, Arabia was mostly pagan and
> polytheistic. Islam stresses that there is just one God, and any other
> entity that is worshipped must be a false god. Many of the early converts
> accepted the idea of one God but refused to give up their pagan ways. The
> Qur'an repeats many times the warning against "joining gods with God", i.e.
> mixing supposed faith in the One God, with pagan practices where a
> multitude of gods was worshipped.
>
> Unfortunately, the Qur'an also accuses Christians of worshipping a plurality
> of gods. Perhaps the technical aspects of the Trinity were too much for
it is not certain that the Christians in early 7th cent. Mecca were in
> space-time continuum:
>
> >> The opening prayer for divine
> >> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have
> >> to be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we
> >> have to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God"
> >> (we certainly don't),
>
> > What does that mean?
>
> Note the distinction between "gods" (with a small g) and "God" (with a
> capitaL g). In the early days of Islam, Arabia was mostly pagan and
> polytheistic. Islam stresses that there is just one God, and any other
> entity that is worshipped must be a false god. Many of the early converts
> accepted the idea of one God but refused to give up their pagan ways. The
> Qur'an repeats many times the warning against "joining gods with God", i.e.
> mixing supposed faith in the One God, with pagan practices where a
> multitude of gods was worshipped.
>
> Unfortunately, the Qur'an also accuses Christians of worshipping a plurality
> of gods. Perhaps the technical aspects of the Trinity were too much for
the majority Pauline Christians following the Athenasian Creed. the
Trinity described in the Qur'an consists of God, Mary and their Son,
Jesus. now, F. de Blois maintains that such a Trinity can be found in
the descriptions of heresies of early church writers and attributed to
the Elchasites, a Judaizing non-Pauline Christian sect. there are
other reasons in the description of Christians in the Qur'an to
consider the presence of such "Jewish Christians". however there is no
firm evidence for their existance there, other than the possibilty of
their existance due to the fact that Central Arabia was pretty much a
blank on the church map (no records of bishops etc.) and that this,
and the fact that Arabia was beyond the policing the Byzantines may
have allowed their existence. not all scholars are convinced of this
theory, although I have fancied it.
Naṣrānī (Ναζωραȋος) and ḥanīf (ἐθνικός): Studies on the Religious
Vocabulary of Christianity
and of Islam
Author(s): François de Blois
Source: Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies,
University of London, Vol. 65,
No. 1 (2002), pp. 1-30
Published by: Cambridge University Press on behalf of School of
Oriental and African Studies
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/4145899
there were also Pauline Christians, as the Qur'an has also allusions
to the Canonical Gospels and also to some Apochryphal ones that were
in circulation in the Near East.
the Qur'an does recognize the essential monotheism of Christianity and
mentions that there are disagreements among Christians, i.e. some are
monotheists while others deviate too much, and warns them "not to go
to extremes".
the Holy Trinity (of maintream Christianity) is also unacceptable to
Islam as it is also deviation towards "aassociation" and gives God
"structure". in the reverse of the Athenaisan Creed, the Qur'an
maintains that Jesus was "created not begoten" by God. Jesus,
according to Muslim belief, was miraculously created in Mary's womb in
a similar manner to Adam being created.
> Mohammed (peace be upon him) to grasp. We therefore strongly deny the
> allegation, proclaiming that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are
> One God, with Whom we join no other.
the mouth of Ibn Fadlan). in Muslim parlance, "Our Father" refers to
Adam.
Yusuf B Gursey
31.3.2013 klo 6.12.3231.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On Mar 30, 10:43 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr>
wrote:
without commentary. it usually alludes to a story or situation then
goes to the moral of religious point to be made of it. one needs
commentary on the story (Biblical, as Muslims understand it, or
Arabian) and also how it fit in with Muhammad's career (called 'asba:b
al-nuzu:l, "Reason's for Revelation"). the Medinan passages are heavy
with points of law and rules of conduct.
the original Arabic OTOH has rhyme and elements of rhetoric and is
even appreciated form that point of view by many Arab Christians.
I like Yusuf Ali's translation and commentary, and it is in canonical
format having the original on the opposite side of the page.
> > The opening prayer for divine
> > guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have to
> > be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we have
> > to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God" (we
> > certainly don't),
>
> What does that mean?
>
> > and that it "ill beseemeth God to beget a son" (and this
> > weekend in particular, we are commemorating the Death and Resurrection of
> > the Son of God). On the other hand, the frequent calls to regular prayer
> > and to give alms, are much to be commended.
>
> > [1] I have used this prayer as one of the "sample texts" for my fantasy
> > language Hallon. Check out
> >http://webspace.webring.com/people/tp/prai_jei/ubim_puvasha.htm- "Ubim
wrote:
> On 2013-03-30 13:53:37 +0000, Curlytop said:
>
>
>
>
>
> > BV BV set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
>
> >> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
> >> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> >> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> >> of
> >> the people on this planet.
>
> >> The Quran A book you can believe in
>
> > In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
>
> > I am a Christian, but I have a "copy" (English translation) of the Qur'an
> > which I do study fairly regularly.
>
> > In fact I find much practical wisdom therein.
>
> Interesting. I bought an English translation of the Koran (as we wrote
> it in those far-off days) in the days when I was a Christian, but I
> found it largely unreadable, with nothing I'd call practical wisdom.
> Probably I should look at it again (if I can find it).
>
the Qur'an in translation is not that good a read, especially one
>
>
>
>
>
> > BV BV set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
>
> >> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
> >> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> >> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> >> of
> >> the people on this planet.
>
> >> The Quran A book you can believe in
>
> > In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
>
> > I am a Christian, but I have a "copy" (English translation) of the Qur'an
> > which I do study fairly regularly.
>
> > In fact I find much practical wisdom therein.
>
> Interesting. I bought an English translation of the Koran (as we wrote
> it in those far-off days) in the days when I was a Christian, but I
> found it largely unreadable, with nothing I'd call practical wisdom.
> Probably I should look at it again (if I can find it).
>
without commentary. it usually alludes to a story or situation then
goes to the moral of religious point to be made of it. one needs
commentary on the story (Biblical, as Muslims understand it, or
Arabian) and also how it fit in with Muhammad's career (called 'asba:b
al-nuzu:l, "Reason's for Revelation"). the Medinan passages are heavy
with points of law and rules of conduct.
the original Arabic OTOH has rhyme and elements of rhetoric and is
even appreciated form that point of view by many Arab Christians.
I like Yusuf Ali's translation and commentary, and it is in canonical
format having the original on the opposite side of the page.
> > The opening prayer for divine
> > guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have to
> > be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we have
> > to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God" (we
> > certainly don't),
>
> What does that mean?
>
> > and that it "ill beseemeth God to beget a son" (and this
> > weekend in particular, we are commemorating the Death and Resurrection of
> > the Son of God). On the other hand, the frequent calls to regular prayer
> > and to give alms, are much to be commended.
>
> > [1] I have used this prayer as one of the "sample texts" for my fantasy
> > language Hallon. Check out
Yusuf B Gursey
31.3.2013 klo 6.16.2631.3.2013
vastaanottaja
Yusuf B Gursey
31.3.2013 klo 6.31.1131.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On Mar 30, 9:53 am, Curlytop <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> BV BV set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
>
> > The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
> > We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> > that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> > of
> > the people on this planet.
>
> > The Quran A book you can believe in
>
> In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
>
> I am a Christian, but I have a "copy" (English translation) of the Qur'an
> which I do study fairly regularly.
>
> In fact I find much practical wisdom therein. The opening prayer for divine
> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have to
> be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we have
> to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God" (we
> certainly don't), and that it "ill beseemeth God to beget a son" (and this
> weekend in particular, we are commemorating the Death and Resurrection of
> the Son of God). On the other hand, the frequent calls to regular prayer
you just won the Trifecta of Muslim "NO"s.
>
> > The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
> > We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> > that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> > of
> > the people on this planet.
>
> > The Quran A book you can believe in
>
> In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
>
> I am a Christian, but I have a "copy" (English translation) of the Qur'an
> which I do study fairly regularly.
>
> In fact I find much practical wisdom therein. The opening prayer for divine
> guidance can be used *unmodified* by Christians [1]. Some passages have to
> be taken mutatis mutandis for the Christian, but the only passages we have
> to reject are the frequent allegations that we "join gods with God" (we
> certainly don't), and that it "ill beseemeth God to beget a son" (and this
> weekend in particular, we are commemorating the Death and Resurrection of
> the Son of God). On the other hand, the frequent calls to regular prayer
according to Muslim belief, Jesus did not die but was taken up into
heaven whole. he will return to Earth towards the End of Days, help
the Mahdi (a human ruler who will establish Muslim rule on Earth)
defeat the Dajjal (the False Messiah, Antichrist), die a natural death
(Jesus is mortal) and be ressurrected in the General Ressurection.
a 17th century Turkish polymath tied himself to a rocket in Istanbul
and fell to the sea, using artificial wings as a parachute, as he
emerged from the Bosphorus naked he quipped to the Sultan "Jesus the
Messiah send you his greetings". I had wondered why he had chosen
Jesus. that's because Jesus is the only mortal up there.
well, anyway so records a famous traveller who says he knew the man in
question. appatrently a modern space museum recognizes this event.
another polymath of the same group hang glided across the Bosphorus.
> and to give alms, are much to be commended.
>
> [1] I have used this prayer as one of the "sample texts" for my fantasy
Peter Brooks
31.3.2013 klo 6.31.3631.3.2013
vastaanottaja
have originated:
"
boon, n.1
(buːn)
Forms: 2–7 bone, 3–4 bon, (2, 5 bune, 3 bun, 3, 6 boun, 4 boyn, 5
boyne), 4–8 boone, (6 bowne, bound), 5– boon.
[a. ON. bón, the etymological correspondent of OE. bén, ME. bene,
prayer. Through such phrases as ‘ask a boon’, ‘have one's boon’,
‘grant a boon’, taken without analysis, the sense easily passed, by
insensible transitions, from ‘prayer’, to ‘favour asked’, ‘favour
conferred’, ‘free gift,’ ‘good thing received’. The adj. boon ‘good’
probably aided in this development.]
†1.1 A prayer, petition, entreaty, request. Obs. a.1.a A prayer to
God, Christ, etc.
c 1175 Lamb. Hom. 63 Ah lauerd god, her ure bone. a 1225 Ancr.
R. 28 Þe seoue bonen iþe Paternoster. a 1300 Cursor M. 3690 Godd‥
has herd mi bon. Ibid. 25306 Hu wath it es to bid þis bun. c
1380 Sir Ferumb. 3948 To ihesu þanne he bad a bone. c 1460 Towneley
Myst. 12 Lord of heven, thou here my boyne [rime done]. 1513
Douglas Æneis x. v. 90 Ene‥can pray and maid hys bone.
b.1.b A request addressed to a human being; esp. the asking of a
favour.
c 1205 Lay. 14912 Þe king uor his fader bone Ȝette hire hir bone [?
bene]. c 1385 Chaucer L.G.W. 1592 The kyng assentede to his bone
[v.r. boone]. c 1440 Gesta Rom. (1879) 153 He grauntid, that the
trespassour shulde aske iij. bonys or he deyde. 1530 Palsgr. 199/2
Bone, a request, requeste. a 1581 Campion Hist. Irel. ii. vii.
(1633) 94 Her husband assented, and accomplished her boone
effectually. 1623 Cockeram, Boone, a request.
†2.2 A request made with authority; a command or order couched in the
form of a request. Obs.
c 1300 St. Brandan 631 Ich aros to don his holi bone. c 1325
E.E. Allit. P. B. 826 Agayne þe bone of þe burne þat hit forboden
hade. a 1400 Cov. Myst. (1841) 28 Why hast thou synnyd so sone,
Thus hastyly to brake my bone. c 1400 Destr. Troy 505 Sho obeit his
bone. 1593 Shakes. 3 Hen. VI, iii. ii. 46 Wid. What you command,
that rests in me to doe. King. But you will take exceptions to my
Boone.
3.3 transf. The matter prayed for or asked; esp. in to have one's
boon, to grant one his boon. (Cf. use of prayer, request.) Obs. or
arch.
c 1175 Lamb. Hom. 37 Ȝif þu wult habben bone to drihten. a 1300
Cursor M. 8414 He yatte hir freli al hir bone. c 1385 Chaucer
L.G.W. 2337 God‥sende the thyn bone. c 1386 ― Knt.'s T. 1811 Mars
hat his wille, his knyght hath al his boone. c 1440 Promp. Parv. 43
Bone, or graunte of prayer. 1488 Caxton Chast. Goddes Chyld. 95
Thou shalt haue thy askynge and thy boone. 1513 More Rich. III,
Wks. 59/1 God loued her better, then to graunt her her bone. 1645
Milton Tetrach. Wks. 1738 I. 245 If the Law come down‥to grant lust
his boon. 1823 Scott Peveril I. vi. 106 Cousin, you must grant me
my boon.
b.3.b A thing asked as a favour; a favour (asked for). arch.
c 1200 Ormin 7606 Drihhtin haffde ȝatedd himm þatt bone Þatt he
ȝeorrnde. c 1305 Pilate 229 in E.E.P. (1862) 117 Grante me ane
bone, Ȝif me an appel to ete. c 1400 Ywaine & Gaw. 2790 The yonger
mayden than alsone Of the King askes this bone. c 1440 York Myst.
xviii. 36 Þis bone of þe I crave. 1483 Caxton G. de la Tour C ij, I
pray yow alle‥to graunte me a bone and a yefte. 1575 Appius & Virg.
in Hazl. Dodsl. IV. 143 Then tender your child that craveth this
bound. 1588 Shakes. Tit. A. ii. iii. 289 Vpon my feeble knee, I beg
this boone, with teares, not lightly shed. c 1650 Rob. Hood & Fryer
116 A boone, a boone, said the curtall fryer‥Give me leave to set my
fist to my mouth. 1862 Trench Mirac. xxiii. 343 She has a boon to
ask for her daughter.
†c.3.c to pray (one) of a boon. Obs.
1393 Gower Conf. I. 207 He‥praid him of a bone, To se this Custe.
c 1440 Gesta Rom. (1879) 411, I pray the,‥of a bone, that thou
wilte herborow me this nyght. 1481 Caxton Reynard (Arb.) 34, I pray
you of a bone, that I may to fore you alle make my confession.
4.4 A favour, a gift, a thing freely or graciously bestowed: a.4.a in
response to asking. arch.
c 1460 Towneley Myst. 282 Send us, lord, this blissid bone. c
1520 Adam Bel 509 in Hazl. E.P.P. II. 160 Madame, ye myght have asked
a bowne, That shuld have ben worth them all three. 1630 Prynne God
No Impostor 30 We deserue no boone, no fauor at his hands. 1712
Arbuthnot John Bull (1727) 71 What art thou asking of them, after all?
Some mighty boon? 1839 Thirlwall Greece VI. 319 A boon like that
which Aristotle had obtained from Philip.
b.4.b without the notion of asking. In 17th c. applied to a largess,
gratuity or present; but now only fig. and arch.
1662 Fuller Worthies (1840) II. 508 The Queen‥seldom gave boons,
and never forgave due debts. 1677 Marvell Season. Argument Wks.
1776 II. 558 He‥has got by boones, at several times‥3000l. Ibid.
579 A boon given him in the excise which he sold for 13500l. 1679
Pepys Diary VI. 130, I have never‥done it to the obtaining sixpence
from the Crown by any boon extraordinary. 1738 Glover Leonidas i.
144 The choicest boons of fate. 1830 D'Israeli Chas. I, III. viii.
161 The Earl‥had accepted with difficulty, the boon of his freedom.
1845–6 Trench Huls. Lect. Ser. ii. viii. 269 The gods had no better
boon for him than an early death.
†c.4.c Grace, favour. rare.
1820 Keats St. Agnes xxiv, Down she knelt for heaven's grace and
boon. 1821 ― Isabel xix, Of thee we now should ask forgiving boon.
5.5 A gift considered with reference to its value to the receiver; a
benefit enjoyed, blessing, advantage, a thing to be thankful for:
sometimes without even the notion of giving, but always with that of
something that one has no claim to, or that might have been absent.
(The usual current sense.)
1767 T. Hutchinson Hist. Prov. Mass. Bay i, The charter of
Massachusets was not so great a boon. 1820 Keats St. Agnes xxxix,
An elfin storm from faery land, Of haggard seeming, but a boon indeed.
1855 Maury Phys. Geog. Sea iii. (1860) §185 The presence of the
warm waters of the Gulf Stream‥is a great boon to navigation. 1856
Sir B. Brodie Psychol. Inq. I. App. 270 The inestimable boon of
articulate language. 1876 Green Short Hist. iii. §3 (1882) 124 The
boon of free and unbought justice was a boon for all.
6.6 An unpaid service due by a tenant to his lord. Cf. ‘benevolence’.
Obs. exc. dial.
1634 Sanderson Serm. II. 294 Racking their rents, taking in their
commons, overthrowing their tenures, diminishing their wages,
encreasing their boons. 1703 Bp. T. Wilson in Keble Life v. (1863)
194 To leave all such carriages, Boones and services on the same foot
as already provided for by Law. 1855 Whitby Gloss., Boon, a stated
service rendered to the landlord by the tenant.
b.6.b Hence boon-day, boon-loaf (a loaf allowed to a tenant when
working on a boon-day), boon-man, boon-work; also c.6.c boon-
ploughing, -shearing, a day's ploughing or shearing given gratuitously
to a farmer by his neighbours on a special occasion.
1679 Blount Anc. Tenures 153 The custom was here for the Natives
and Cottagers to plow and harrow for the Lord, and to work one *boon-
day for him every week in Harvest. 1788 Marshall Rur. Econ. Yorksh.
(1796) I. 41 Tenant agrees‥to perform the customary leadings, or
boondays. 1863 Atkinson Provinc. Danby, &c. s.v. Boon-days.
1679 Blount Anc. Tenures 143 Every plow was to be allowed four
*boon-loaves.
1727 Bp. T. Wilson in Keble Life xx. (1863) 680 The *boon-men i.e.
they who owe him rent in the way of work.
1886 Carlisle Jrnl. 23 Feb. 2/4 *Boon Ploughing at Burgh.
1875 Lanc. Gloss. (E.D.S.) *Boon-shearin (N. Lanc.), a quantity of
shearing given as in the case of a boon-ploo [= boon-ploughing].
1883 Seebohm Eng. Vill. Community 78, Precariæ or *boon-work, i.e.
special work at request.
¶Occasionally boon appears to have the sense of ‘good’, but in the
earlier instances at least the sense of ‘favour asked’ or ‘conferred’,
is more or less apparent. Modern archaists complete the confusion with
boon a.
c 1325 E.E. Allit. P. B. 1089 Hade bodyly burne abiden þat bone‥His
lyf wer loste. c 1650 Came you not, &c. 12 in Furniv. Percy Folio
I. 254, I haue Land att durham will feitch my hart to boone. 1874
Holland Mistr. Manse xxi. 83 The steps were scaled for boon or bale.
1884 Skrine Und. Two Queens ii. 34 Boon we mingle and bane.
" [OED]
Evan Kirshenbaum
31.3.2013 klo 12.44.0731.3.2013
vastaanottaja
Yusuf B Gursey <ygu...@gmail.com> writes:
> the Qur'an in translation is not that good a read, especially one
> without commentary. it usually alludes to a story or situation then
> goes to the moral of religious point to be made of it. one needs
> commentary on the story (Biblical, as Muslims understand it, or
> Arabian) and also how it fit in with Muhammad's career (called
> 'asba:b al-nuzu:l, "Reason's for Revelation"). the Medinan passages
> are heavy with points of law and rules of conduct.
>
> the original Arabic OTOH has rhyme and elements of rhetoric and is
> even appreciated form that point of view by many Arab Christians.
>
> I like Yusuf Ali's translation and commentary, and it is in canonical
> format having the original on the opposite side of the page.
>
Thanks. I've been meaning to get a good English translation
> the Qur'an in translation is not that good a read, especially one
> without commentary. it usually alludes to a story or situation then
> goes to the moral of religious point to be made of it. one needs
> commentary on the story (Biblical, as Muslims understand it, or
> Arabian) and also how it fit in with Muhammad's career (called
> 'asba:b al-nuzu:l, "Reason's for Revelation"). the Medinan passages
> are heavy with points of law and rules of conduct.
>
> the original Arabic OTOH has rhyme and elements of rhetoric and is
> even appreciated form that point of view by many Arab Christians.
>
> I like Yusuf Ali's translation and commentary, and it is in canonical
> format having the original on the opposite side of the page.
>
(preferably bilingual) with Muslim commentatry that doesn't presuppose
too much background knowledge. (I have the Shakir translation.)
I see that Amazon has both what seems to be the original translation
and a 2002 "revised" translation (with revised commentary). From some
of the negative comments on the revisions being "watered down" to make
them more palatable to westerners, I think I'm probably better off
going with the (slightly more expensive) original. Or does the
revised work more closely match current Muslim opinion? (The original
was published in the 1930s.)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |"The Dynamics of Interbeing and
SF Bay Area (1982-) |Monological Imperatives in 'Dick
Chicago (1964-1982) |and Jane' : A Study in Psychic
|Transrelational Modes."
evan.kir...@gmail.com | Calvin
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Athel Cornish-Bowden
31.3.2013 klo 13.02.4631.3.2013
vastaanottaja
edition, translated by N. J. Dawood, who according to Amazon was Iraqi.
>> --
>> athel
--
athel
Yusuf B Gursey
31.3.2013 klo 16.18.5831.3.2013
vastaanottaja
first of all it doesn't have the canonical atrangements of the surahs
(chapters).
I am told, that the translator, apparently an Arab Christian,
deliberately chose the interpretations that make the Qur'an sound bad.
the example that was discussed in a USENET forum was Solomon slaying
his horses with his sword.
the Arabic says that Solomon stroked his horses. now, some medieval
commentator apparently noticed that "stroking" was also an Arabic
euphemism for slaying with a sword. so Mr. Dawood has Solomon slaying
his horses. which doesn't make common sense given the context.
> >> --
> >> athel
>
> --
> athel- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
R H Draney
31.3.2013 klo 16.37.1031.3.2013
vastaanottaja
Peter Brooks filted:
>
>On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>>
>Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon might
>have originated:
Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened to he....r
>On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>>
>Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon might
>have originated:
Curlytop
31.3.2013 klo 16.38.3231.3.2013
vastaanottaja
Yusuf B Gursey set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:
>> The one I bought (probably around 1966) was the Penguin Classics
>> edition, translated by N. J. Dawood, who according to Amazon was Iraqi.
>>
>
> that's the worst translation!
>
> first of all it doesn't have the canonical atrangements of the surahs
> (chapters).
>
> I am told, that the translator, apparently an Arab Christian,
> deliberately chose the interpretations that make the Qur'an sound bad.
>
> the example that was discussed in a USENET forum was Solomon slaying
> his horses with his sword.
>
> the Arabic says that Solomon stroked his horses. now, some medieval
> commentator apparently noticed that "stroking" was also an Arabic
> euphemism for slaying with a sword. so Mr. Dawood has Solomon slaying
> his horses. which doesn't make common sense given the context.
I use Rodwell's translation in Everyman's Library. It too does not use the
canonical sequence of suras, though there is a lookup table at the start to
show which page a sura begins on according to the traditional numbering.
The only reference I can find to Solomon and his horses is in Sura 38 (SAD)
vv.30-32 which Rodwell translates as follows:
[30] /Remember/ when at eventide the prancing chargers were displayed before
him. [31] And [Solomon] said, "Truly I have loved the love of earthly gods
above the remembrance of my Lod, till the sun hath been hidden by the veil
of darkness. [32] Bring them back to me." And he began to sever the heads
and necks.
Yusuf is this the passage you were referring to?
In Rodwell's edition a footnote ascribes to "the Commentators" the
explanation that Solomon was so distracted with admiration of his horses
that he forgot the time of evening prayer, and he only realised he had
missed it when darkness came, and so he began slaughtering his horses to
prevent such a distraction in the future.
continuum:
>> The one I bought (probably around 1966) was the Penguin Classics
>> edition, translated by N. J. Dawood, who according to Amazon was Iraqi.
>>
>
> that's the worst translation!
>
> first of all it doesn't have the canonical atrangements of the surahs
> (chapters).
>
> I am told, that the translator, apparently an Arab Christian,
> deliberately chose the interpretations that make the Qur'an sound bad.
>
> the example that was discussed in a USENET forum was Solomon slaying
> his horses with his sword.
>
> the Arabic says that Solomon stroked his horses. now, some medieval
> commentator apparently noticed that "stroking" was also an Arabic
> euphemism for slaying with a sword. so Mr. Dawood has Solomon slaying
> his horses. which doesn't make common sense given the context.
canonical sequence of suras, though there is a lookup table at the start to
show which page a sura begins on according to the traditional numbering.
The only reference I can find to Solomon and his horses is in Sura 38 (SAD)
vv.30-32 which Rodwell translates as follows:
[30] /Remember/ when at eventide the prancing chargers were displayed before
him. [31] And [Solomon] said, "Truly I have loved the love of earthly gods
above the remembrance of my Lod, till the sun hath been hidden by the veil
of darkness. [32] Bring them back to me." And he began to sever the heads
and necks.
Yusuf is this the passage you were referring to?
In Rodwell's edition a footnote ascribes to "the Commentators" the
explanation that Solomon was so distracted with admiration of his horses
that he forgot the time of evening prayer, and he only realised he had
missed it when darkness came, and so he began slaughtering his horses to
prevent such a distraction in the future.
the Omrud
30.3.2013 klo 13.10.0130.3.2013
vastaanottaja
lifelong non-theist with liberal inclinations, I suspect he wouldn't
approve of me in any case.
--
David
James Silverton
30.3.2013 klo 13.34.5130.3.2013
vastaanottaja
to the meaning of "worship" but it did once mean "respect" or "honor".
After all, there is "His Worship, the Mayor".
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
Yusuf B Gursey
31.3.2013 klo 18.02.0031.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On Mar 31, 4:38 pm, Curlytop <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Yusuf B Gursey set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:
>
>
the thread I was referring to is
> Yusuf B Gursey set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:
>
>
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/browse_frm/thread/1c68b4dc5d097275/1563cafa508f8e15?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=Solomon+horses#1563cafa508f8e15
I'll get back with more detail
Peter Moylan
31.3.2013 klo 3.45.1031.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On 30/03/13 23:42, BV BV wrote:
> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
>
> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> of
> the people on this planet.
>
> The Quran A book you can believe in
My rule of thumb: if it's something promoted by spammers, it's probably
> The Quran...A Book You Can Believe In
>
>
> We invite you to take a few minutes to learn something about a book
> that is the foundation of the worldwide & culture of almost one-fourth
> of
> the people on this planet.
>
> The Quran A book you can believe in
crap.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Peter Moylan
31.3.2013 klo 9.27.5531.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On 31/03/13 20:43, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> the Holy Trinity (of maintream Christianity) is also unacceptable to
> Islam as it is also deviation towards "aassociation" and gives God
> "structure".
That's the first time I've seen "structure" used in that context. Do you
> the Holy Trinity (of maintream Christianity) is also unacceptable to
> Islam as it is also deviation towards "aassociation" and gives God
> "structure".
mean that in the sense of saying that the Trinitarian doctrine says that
God has internal structure rather than being an atomic particle? That's
a considerable distance away from the tradition that man created God in
his own image, presumably with internal organs.
In that connection, I'm now lead to wonder what Christian philosophers
make of the fact that the once-indivisible protons and neutrons now turn
out to be trinities.
Yusuf B Gursey
31.3.2013 klo 23.23.2831.3.2013
vastaanottaja
On Mar 31, 9:27 am, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 31/03/13 20:43, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > the Holy Trinity (of maintream Christianity) is also unacceptable to
> > Islam as it is also deviation towards "aassociation" and gives God
> > "structure".
>
> That's the first time I've seen "structure" used in that context. Do you
> mean that in the sense of saying that the Trinitarian doctrine says that
> God has internal structure rather than being an atomic particle? That's
> a considerable distance away from the tradition that man created God in
> his own image, presumably with internal organs.
I have heard of that argument used somewhere. but I am not a
> On 31/03/13 20:43, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > the Holy Trinity (of maintream Christianity) is also unacceptable to
> > Islam as it is also deviation towards "aassociation" and gives God
> > "structure".
>
> That's the first time I've seen "structure" used in that context. Do you
> mean that in the sense of saying that the Trinitarian doctrine says that
> God has internal structure rather than being an atomic particle? That's
> a considerable distance away from the tradition that man created God in
> his own image, presumably with internal organs.
philosopher or theologian.
Peter Moylan
1.4.2013 klo 0.02.261.4.2013
vastaanottaja
That's why they put me away.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
1.4.2013 klo 13.55.471.4.2013
vastaanottaja
On 2013-03-30 17:10:01 +0000, the Omrud said:
> On 30/03/2013 16:37, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2013-03-30 16:02:43 +0000, the Omrud said:
>>
>>> When we lived in Manchester, I was a governor of the local primary
>>> school, which was nominally CoE with the vicar as Chair of Governors
>>> but had a majority of Muslim children and smaller numbers of several
>>> other faiths, as well as a significant number of children of
>>> middle-class atheists of many racial backgrounds.
>>>
>>> The vicar and the school had a policy of inclusion - all the children
>>> were encourated to take part in activites realting to all faiths. We
>>> talked to representatives of the Muslim parents - they were happy for
>>> their children to join in with faith activities of Sikh, Rastafarian,
>>> etc, etc. For Christianity, they were content for their children to
>>> join activities relating to Christmas and Easter, sing Christian
>>> hymns, say Christian prayers, but they were absolutely terrified that
>>> we would teach their children about the Trinity. The governors were
>>> happy to leave this component out of collective worship.
>>
>> I don't think the Rev. Fred Phelps would approve of you.
>
> I had to look up the good Reverend
"Good" is not an adjective many would apply to the Rev. Fred Phelps. He
> On 30/03/2013 16:37, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2013-03-30 16:02:43 +0000, the Omrud said:
>>
>>> When we lived in Manchester, I was a governor of the local primary
>>> school, which was nominally CoE with the vicar as Chair of Governors
>>> but had a majority of Muslim children and smaller numbers of several
>>> other faiths, as well as a significant number of children of
>>> middle-class atheists of many racial backgrounds.
>>>
>>> The vicar and the school had a policy of inclusion - all the children
>>> were encourated to take part in activites realting to all faiths. We
>>> talked to representatives of the Muslim parents - they were happy for
>>> their children to join in with faith activities of Sikh, Rastafarian,
>>> etc, etc. For Christianity, they were content for their children to
>>> join activities relating to Christmas and Easter, sing Christian
>>> hymns, say Christian prayers, but they were absolutely terrified that
>>> we would teach their children about the Trinity. The governors were
>>> happy to leave this component out of collective worship.
>>
>> I don't think the Rev. Fred Phelps would approve of you.
>
> I had to look up the good Reverend
must be one of the nastiest people on this planet.
> - I'd never heard of him.
interesting how much divergence there is in what people read on the
web. There is quite a lot of overlap between people who read AUE and
people who read AEU, but there is no surprise there, and some overlap
with people who read sci.lang, though there are some here -- like Evan,
for example -- who know a lot more linguistics than I do but who stay
away from sci.lang because for some reason they're not keen on Peter T.
Daniels. Yusuf is basically a sci.langer, but he comes here from time
to time. I meet Jan Lodder, and Mike Lyle much less often, at
talk.origins. Lanarcam frequents sci. lang.translation (insofar as one
can frequent a moribund group), and has made a valiant effort to
resuscitate it. I may have met Garrett once or twice at alt.html, but
I'm not sure. Apart from that I have little idea where everyone goes
where they're not here.
> Since I'm lifelong non-theist with liberal inclinations, I suspect he
> wouldn't approve of me in any case.
--
athel
Curlytop
1.4.2013 klo 13.58.401.4.2013
vastaanottaja
Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
space-time continuum:
> Lanarcam frequents sci. lang.translation (insofar as one
> can frequent a moribund group),
Why do I keep misreading the name as Llantarnam (a district of Cwmbran in
South Wales)?
space-time continuum:
> Lanarcam frequents sci. lang.translation (insofar as one
> can frequent a moribund group),
South Wales)?
Lanarcam
1.4.2013 klo 14.05.021.4.2013
vastaanottaja
Le 01/04/2013 19:58, Curlytop a écrit :
> Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
> space-time continuum:
>
>> Lanarcam frequents sci. lang.translation (insofar as one
>> can frequent a moribund group),
>
> Why do I keep misreading the name as Llantarnam (a district of Cwmbran in
> South Wales)?
>
David Lewis lived there, apparently, they have been rather harsh
> Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
> space-time continuum:
>
>> Lanarcam frequents sci. lang.translation (insofar as one
>> can frequent a moribund group),
>
> Why do I keep misreading the name as Llantarnam (a district of Cwmbran in
> South Wales)?
>
with him, so to say.
the Omrud
1.4.2013 klo 14.13.551.4.2013
vastaanottaja
day at Montpellier airport. FIL was scheduled to arrive from LEeds
Bradford at 12:45; the plane was delayed until 13:30. We arrived spot
on time to see it marked as "Landing". However, the state of "Landing"
lasted for about half an hour after which it was announced that it had
proved impossible for the plane to land (high winds and zero visibility)
and had been diverted to Marseille. There seemed no point in leaving
the airport with the weather so terrible, so we sustained ourselves with
very good sandwiches from one of the bars and waited until FIL arrived
by bus from Marseille at about 17:45. He had a phone with him but I
hadn't thought it necessary to enable roaming, so we just had to wait in
the hope that he would be herded by an English-speaking guide onto the
right transport.
We took him back to Montpellier this afternoon and he's just phoned from
home in Yorkshire so the return trip was considerably less difficult.
--
David
Curlytop
1.4.2013 klo 14.25.331.4.2013
vastaanottaja
Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
space-time continuum:
space-time continuum:
> Apart from that I have little idea where everyone goes
> where they're not here.
I occasionally post on sci.lang but you'll also find me on sci.astro and
> where they're not here.
sci.physics (doing my best to defend Einstein against the antirelativists)
or on rec.music.classical or rec.music.classical.recordings, or sometimes
on alt.fan.tolkien or rec.arts.books.tolkien, perhaps even uk.misc,
uk.legal and uk.railway, all appropriate to my various side interests.
> I don't think you need lose any sleep over that.
Evan Kirshenbaum
1.4.2013 klo 15.22.001.4.2013
vastaanottaja
Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> writes:
> Probably you don't read the same blogs as I do. In fact it's
> interesting how much divergence there is in what people read on the
> web. There is quite a lot of overlap between people who read AUE and
> people who read AEU, but there is no surprise there, and some
> overlap with people who read sci.lang, though there are some here --
> like Evan, for example -- who know a lot more linguistics than I do
> but who stay away from sci.lang because for some reason they're not
> keen on Peter T. Daniels. Yusuf is basically a sci.langer, but he
> comes here from time to time. I meet Jan Lodder, and Mike Lyle much
> less often, at talk.origins. Lanarcam frequents
> sci. lang.translation (insofar as one can frequent a moribund
> group), and has made a valiant effort to resuscitate it. I may have
> met Garrett once or twice at alt.html, but I'm not sure. Apart from
> that I have little idea where everyone goes where they're not here.
About the only other group I follow these days is
> Probably you don't read the same blogs as I do. In fact it's
> interesting how much divergence there is in what people read on the
> web. There is quite a lot of overlap between people who read AUE and
> people who read AEU, but there is no surprise there, and some
> overlap with people who read sci.lang, though there are some here --
> like Evan, for example -- who know a lot more linguistics than I do
> but who stay away from sci.lang because for some reason they're not
> keen on Peter T. Daniels. Yusuf is basically a sci.langer, but he
> comes here from time to time. I meet Jan Lodder, and Mike Lyle much
> less often, at talk.origins. Lanarcam frequents
> sci. lang.translation (insofar as one can frequent a moribund
> group), and has made a valiant effort to resuscitate it. I may have
> met Garrett once or twice at alt.html, but I'm not sure. Apart from
> that I have little idea where everyone goes where they're not here.
rec.arts.comics.strips.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |When all else fails, give the
SF Bay Area (1982-) |customer what they ask for. This
Chicago (1964-1982) |is strong medicine and rarely needs
|to be repeated.
evan.kir...@gmail.com
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Mark Brader
1.4.2013 klo 15.26.101.4.2013
vastaanottaja
Athel Cornish-Bowden (copyedited):
> Apart from that I have little idea where everyone goes when they're
> not here.
I don't exist when I'm not here. Thank you for noticing. :-)
There are 5 other newsgroups I tend to post to these days. In order
by my posting frequency, they are:
* rec.games.trivia, which I'm trying to help keep alive by posting
old games from the trivia league I play in
* alt.fan.cecil-adams, which in practice is a group where nothing is
off-topic, but too often (for my taste) gets into nasty politics;
it's the only one of the five that's close to the posting volume here
* rec.puzzles.crosswords, which in practice consists mainly of people
challenging each other to write cryptic-crossword clues and critiquing
the results
* rec.games.bridge, which in practice is about duplicate bridge
* rec.puzzles, which is self-explanatory, although the puzzles aren't
--
Mark Brader | "Of course, if you only see one movie this year,
m...@vex.net | you're in the wrong newsgroup."
Toronto | --Chris Pierson, rec.arts.movies.past-films
My text in this article is in the public domain.
> Apart from that I have little idea where everyone goes when they're
> not here.
I don't exist when I'm not here. Thank you for noticing. :-)
There are 5 other newsgroups I tend to post to these days. In order
by my posting frequency, they are:
* rec.games.trivia, which I'm trying to help keep alive by posting
old games from the trivia league I play in
* alt.fan.cecil-adams, which in practice is a group where nothing is
off-topic, but too often (for my taste) gets into nasty politics;
it's the only one of the five that's close to the posting volume here
* rec.puzzles.crosswords, which in practice consists mainly of people
challenging each other to write cryptic-crossword clues and critiquing
the results
* rec.games.bridge, which in practice is about duplicate bridge
* rec.puzzles, which is self-explanatory, although the puzzles aren't
--
Mark Brader | "Of course, if you only see one movie this year,
m...@vex.net | you're in the wrong newsgroup."
Toronto | --Chris Pierson, rec.arts.movies.past-films
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Yusuf B Gursey
1.4.2013 klo 17.18.361.4.2013
vastaanottaja
On Mar 31, 4:38 pm, Curlytop <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
hoursesw did have to pay for Solomon's sins!
Mike L
1.4.2013 klo 17.43.571.4.2013
vastaanottaja
horse-killing interpretation as if it were well known, and calls it
"puerile".
--
Mike.
Snidely
3.4.2013 klo 4.11.523.4.2013
vastaanottaja
Skitt submitted this idea :
> I have it easy -- I don't worship imaginary sky fairies at all, so their
> numbers don't matter to me in the slightest. In fact, I don't worship
> anything.
Sometimes it seems you worship not worshipping.
/dps
--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013
> I have it easy -- I don't worship imaginary sky fairies at all, so their
> numbers don't matter to me in the slightest. In fact, I don't worship
> anything.
Sometimes it seems you worship not worshipping.
/dps
--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013
Yusuf B Gursey
3.4.2013 klo 4.14.183.4.2013
vastaanottaja
John Holmes
6.4.2013 klo 2.57.346.4.2013
vastaanottaja
Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
>> Peter Brooks filted:
>>>
>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>>>>
>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
>>> might have originated:
>>
>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
>> to he....r
>>
>>
> I talk to the trees
> That's why they put me away.
- Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
>> Peter Brooks filted:
>>>
>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>>>>
>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
>>> might have originated:
>>
>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
>> to he....r
>>
>>
> I talk to the trees
> That's why they put me away.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Leslie Danks
6.4.2013 klo 4.11.506.4.2013
vastaanottaja
John Holmes wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
>>> Peter Brooks filted:
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
>>>> might have originated:
>>>
>>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
>>> to he....r
>>>
>>>
>> I talk to the trees
>> That's why they put me away.
>
> - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
>
I believe so. Prince Charles is said to have talked to his flowers, but he
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
>>> Peter Brooks filted:
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
>>>> might have originated:
>>>
>>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
>>> to he....r
>>>
>>>
>> I talk to the trees
>> That's why they put me away.
>
> - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
>
is still at liberty.
--
Les (BrE)
"... be skeptical of government guidelines. The Indians learned not to trust
our government and neither should you." (Fallon & Enig)
Peter Brooks
6.4.2013 klo 5.06.006.4.2013
vastaanottaja
On Apr 6, 10:11 am, Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at> wrote:
> John Holmes wrote:
> > Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
> >>> Peter Brooks filted:
>
> >>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>
> >>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
> >>>> might have originated:
>
> >>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
> >>> to he....r
>
> >> I talk to the trees
> >> That's why they put me away.
>
> > - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
>
> I believe so. Prince Charles is said to have talked to his flowers, but he
> is still at liberty.
>
If you call that liberty then lab rats are free as the wind.
> John Holmes wrote:
> > Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
> >>> Peter Brooks filted:
>
> >>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>
> >>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
> >>>> might have originated:
>
> >>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
> >>> to he....r
>
> >> I talk to the trees
> >> That's why they put me away.
>
> > - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
>
> I believe so. Prince Charles is said to have talked to his flowers, but he
> is still at liberty.
>
John Holmes
6.4.2013 klo 8.17.406.4.2013
vastaanottaja
"Leslie Danks" <leslie...@aon.at> wrote in message
news:515fd8c6$0$13290$91ce...@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at...
> John Holmes wrote:
>
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> I talk to the trees
>>> That's why they put me away.
>>
>> - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
>>
> I believe so. Prince Charles is said to have talked to his flowers, but he
> is still at liberty.
Just yesterday I sent someone a message that Rommel had the wrong master. I
>
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> I talk to the trees
>>> That's why they put me away.
>>
>> - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
>>
> I believe so. Prince Charles is said to have talked to his flowers, but he
> is still at liberty.
keep making these typos of doubling the wrong letter, so the autocorrect
turned (room) romm into Rommel, confusing the poor locksmith no end.
Leslie Danks
6.4.2013 klo 9.00.226.4.2013
vastaanottaja
privileges, but what was left would surely keep him warm during the evening
of his life.
Peter Brooks
6.4.2013 klo 9.19.556.4.2013
vastaanottaja
On Apr 6, 3:00 pm, Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at> wrote:
> Peter Brooks wrote:
> > On Apr 6, 10:11 am, Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at> wrote:
> >> John Holmes wrote:
> >> > Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> >> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
> >> >>> Peter Brooks filted:
>
> >> >>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> >> >>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>
> >> >>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
> >> >>>> might have originated:
>
> >> >>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
> >> >>> to he....r
>
> >> >> I talk to the trees
> >> >> That's why they put me away.
>
> >> > - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
>
> >> I believe so. Prince Charles is said to have talked to his flowers, but
> >> he is still at liberty.
>
> > If you call that liberty then lab rats are free as the wind.
>
> He is free to leave at any time. He would have to give up certain perks and
> privileges, but what was left would surely keep him warm during the evening
> of his life.
>
Again, if you think that he's free to give up being a pet, then you
> Peter Brooks wrote:
> > On Apr 6, 10:11 am, Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at> wrote:
> >> John Holmes wrote:
> >> > Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> >> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
> >> >>> Peter Brooks filted:
>
> >> >>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> >> >>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>
> >> >>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
> >> >>>> might have originated:
>
> >> >>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
> >> >>> to he....r
>
> >> >> I talk to the trees
> >> >> That's why they put me away.
>
> >> > - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
>
> >> I believe so. Prince Charles is said to have talked to his flowers, but
> >> he is still at liberty.
>
> > If you call that liberty then lab rats are free as the wind.
>
> He is free to leave at any time. He would have to give up certain perks and
> privileges, but what was left would surely keep him warm during the evening
> of his life.
>
don't know much about pets. If Mr Tiddles is on a good billet with
regular, tasty grub, a warm bed and the chance of killing a few birds
when he feels like it, then Mr Tiddles is not free to bugger off in
any real sense of the word 'free' - when Mr Tiddles mistress snuffs
it, Mr Tiddles will leave within 24 hours for a better prospect,
having noticed the house getting cold and the non-appearance of free
grub. Before that, the thought of going to the trouble if finding a
different life is unlikely even to have entered his head, keeping him
trapped in a cage with an open door.
Peter Young
6.4.2013 klo 13.30.046.4.2013
vastaanottaja
On 6 Apr 2013 "John Holmes" <s...@sig.instead> wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
>>> Peter Brooks filted:
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
>>>> might have originated:
>>>
>>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
>>> to he....r
>>>
>>>
>> I talk to the trees
>> That's why they put me away.
> - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
Spine Milligna, the well-known typing error, actually.
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
>>> Peter Brooks filted:
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
>>>> might have originated:
>>>
>>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
>>> to he....r
>>>
>>>
>> I talk to the trees
>> That's why they put me away.
> - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Leslie Danks
6.4.2013 klo 15.47.346.4.2013
vastaanottaja
developed hobbies more appropriate to his future role as King of England -
active participation in the military overthrow of African regimes, for
example. People of that ilk are surely capable of escaping from locked
cages, let alone open ones.
Mike L
6.4.2013 klo 18.06.146.4.2013
vastaanottaja
On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 18:30:04 +0100, Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk>
wrote:
>On 6 Apr 2013 "John Holmes" <s...@sig.instead> wrote:
>
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
>>>> Peter Brooks filted:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
>>>>> might have originated:
>>>>
>>>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
>>>> to he....r
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I talk to the trees
>>> That's why they put me away.
>
>> - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
>
>Spine Milligna, the well-known typing error, actually.
>
So it's beginn, then? What a relief! I reflect on Spike's equally
lucky compatriot, poor old Michael Finnegan, benign again.
--
Mike.
wrote:
>On 6 Apr 2013 "John Holmes" <s...@sig.instead> wrote:
>
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 01/04/13 07:37, R H Draney wrote:
>>>> Peter Brooks filted:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 31, 10:05=C2=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is where being a pantheist is a real boon....r
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, though there's the little niggle regarding whence the boon
>>>>> might have originated:
>>>>
>>>> Alan J Lerner said he talked to the trees, but they never listened
>>>> to he....r
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I talk to the trees
>>> That's why they put me away.
>
>> - Spike Miiligna, wasn't it?
>
>Spine Milligna, the well-known typing error, actually.
>
lucky compatriot, poor old Michael Finnegan, benign again.
--
Mike.
Curlytop
7.4.2013 klo 14.25.597.4.2013
vastaanottaja
John Holmes set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:
> Just yesterday I sent someone a message that Rommel had the wrong master.
> I keep making these typos of doubling the wrong letter, so the autocorrect
> turned (room) romm into Rommel, confusing the poor locksmith no end.
In work the spell chucker didn't like the description of a new range of PC's
as "fanless" and suggested "fannies".
continuum:
> Just yesterday I sent someone a message that Rommel had the wrong master.
> I keep making these typos of doubling the wrong letter, so the autocorrect
> turned (room) romm into Rommel, confusing the poor locksmith no end.
as "fanless" and suggested "fannies".
R H Draney
7.4.2013 klo 17.42.377.4.2013
vastaanottaja
Curlytop filted:
"Data Base Management Administrator")...every time he tried to include it in a
document, MS Word added a squiggly red underline and offered two possible
"corrections":
Dumb
Dumber
....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>John Holmes set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
>continuum:
>
>> Just yesterday I sent someone a message that Rommel had the wrong master.
>> I keep making these typos of doubling the wrong letter, so the autocorrect
>> turned (room) romm into Rommel, confusing the poor locksmith no end.
>
>In work the spell chucker didn't like the description of a new range of PC's
>as "fanless" and suggested "fannies".
Friend of mine at work had the job title "DBMA" (standing for something like
>John Holmes set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
>continuum:
>
>> Just yesterday I sent someone a message that Rommel had the wrong master.
>> I keep making these typos of doubling the wrong letter, so the autocorrect
>> turned (room) romm into Rommel, confusing the poor locksmith no end.
>
>In work the spell chucker didn't like the description of a new range of PC's
>as "fanless" and suggested "fannies".
"Data Base Management Administrator")...every time he tried to include it in a
document, MS Word added a squiggly red underline and offered two possible
"corrections":
Dumb
Dumber
....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
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