Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?

[Dingbat]

Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?
Is Right used in this sense in any other context?

How to Vaccinate the Whole World
By The Right Honourable Tony Blair & Ambassador Mark Green on August 11, 2021
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/tony-blair-how-vaccinate-whole-world

[Mark Brader]

Ranjit Mathews:

> Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?

Something like that, yes.

> Is Right used in this sense in any other context?

There's "Right Reverend", and some other uses that might or might
not be considered the same. The OED Online lists it this way
(under "right, adv."):

# 7. As an intensifier: very...
#
# a. With adverbs: very, extremely, quite. Now usually in
# nonstandard and regional use, or archaic in "right royally".
#
# b. With adjectives. Very, extremely, fully, completely.
# Now usually in nonstandard and regional use, or archaic in
# "right royal".
#
# c. Used in titles or forms of address. Also in extended use.
# After 17th cent. chiefly in official titles prefixed to a
# person's name. "Right Honourable", "Reverend", "Worshipful":
# see the second element.

--
Mark Brader | "I do not think about things that I do not think about."
Toronto | "Do you ever think about things that you *do* think about?"
m...@vex.net | --Inherit the Wind, Lawrence & Lee

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[occam]

In Tony's case, the 'Right' can be used similarly in another word
combination. He was a Right Bastard. Slimy, deceitful and a consummate
politician.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2021-12-11 08:58:00 +0000, occam said:

> On 11/12/2021 08:11, Dingbat wrote:
>> Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?
>> Is Right used in this sense in any other context?

Yes, in "Right Reverend".

>>
>> How to Vaccinate the Whole World
>> By The Right Honourable Tony Blair & Ambassador Mark Green on August 11, 2021
>> https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/tony-blair-how-vaccinate-whole-world
>
> In Tony's case, the 'Right' can be used similarly in another word
> combination. He was a Right Bastard. Slimy, deceitful and a consummate
> politician.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 23:11:09 -0800 (PST), Dingbat
<ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?

"Right" is an intensifier.

In formal use in titles "Right Honourable" is higher in status than
"Honourable.

"Most Honourable" is a distinct title/mode of address.
OED:

Most Honourable is applied to Marquesses, and to the Order of the
Bath and the Privy Council (collectively).

>Is Right used in this sense in any other context?

Yes.
In certain churches (Anglican Communion and RC) -

Reverend: a priest
Very Reverend: a dean
Right Reverend: a bishop
Most Reverend: an archbiahop

A Mayor is "the Worshipful <name>'
A Lord Mayor is "the Right Worshipful <name>'

A Lord Mayor is not in a hierarchy above a Mayor.
A Lord Mayor is "first citizen" of a municipatity with city status.
A Mayor is "first citizen" of a municipatity without city status.

I understand that the Freemasons have members with various "Worshipful"
statuses.

>
>How to Vaccinate the Whole World
>By The Right Honourable Tony Blair & Ambassador Mark Green on August 11, 2021
>https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/tony-blair-how-vaccinate-whole-world

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Ken Blake]

In BrE and maybe others, but almost nobody in the USA would use the term
"right bastard."

[Dingbat]

They would understand it, which "arrant rotter/ bounder" they might not.

[Ken Blake]

Many Americans would, but probably not all.

[occam]

I have also heard it in connection with the great livery companies of
the City of London. The Worshipful Company of Drapers, for example, is
a patron of several UK universities.

e.g. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worshipful_Company_of_Drapers>

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 16:52:55 +0100, occam <nob...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

>On 11/12/2021 15:14, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 23:11:09 -0800 (PST), Dingbat
>> <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?
>>
>> "Right" is an intensifier.
>>
>> In formal use in titles "Right Honourable" is higher in status than
>> "Honourable.
>>
>> "Most Honourable" is a distinct title/mode of address.
>> OED:
>>
>> Most Honourable is applied to Marquesses, and to the Order of the
>> Bath and the Privy Council (collectively).
>>
>>> Is Right used in this sense in any other context?
>>
>> Yes.
>> In certain churches (Anglican Communion and RC) -
>>
>> Reverend: a priest
>> Very Reverend: a dean
>> Right Reverend: a bishop
>> Most Reverend: an archbiahop
>>
>> A Mayor is "the Worshipful <name>'
>> A Lord Mayor is "the Right Worshipful <name>'
>>
>> A Lord Mayor is not in a hierarchy above a Mayor.
>> A Lord Mayor is "first citizen" of a municipatity with city status.
>> A Mayor is "first citizen" of a municipatity without city status.

However, the situation is not rigid. There are two cities in Northern
Ireland that attained city staus at the same time (the present Queen's
Jubilee year).

One has the mayor titled "Lord Mayor", the other (where I live) is
"Right Worshipful Mayor".

The "Lord" in the title "Lord Mayor" is used of male and non-male
holders of that position.

The current Lord Mayor of the next nearest city to me, Belfast, is (in
full) 'the Right Honourable, the Lord Mayor, Councillor Kate Nicholl'.

https://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/your-council/lord-mayor

>>
>> I understand that the Freemasons have members with various "Worshipful"
>> statuses.
>>
>
>I have also heard it in connection with the great livery companies of
>the City of London. The Worshipful Company of Drapers, for example, is
>a patron of several UK universities.
>
>e.g. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worshipful_Company_of_Drapers>
>
>>>
>>> How to Vaccinate the Whole World
>>> By The Right Honourable Tony Blair & Ambassador Mark Green on August 11, 2021
>>> https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/tony-blair-how-vaccinate-whole-world
>>

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 07:35:46 -0700, Ken Blake <K...@invalidinvalid.com>
wrote:

Is that because the lefties are bastards?

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <g4a9rg9vbvldm3a1f...@4ax.com>,

Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 23:11:09 -0800 (PST), Dingbat
><ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?
>
>"Right" is an intensifier.
>
>In formal use in titles "Right Honourable" is higher in status than
>"Honourable.
>
>"Most Honourable" is a distinct title/mode of address.
>OED:
>
> Most Honourable is applied to Marquesses, and to the Order of the
> Bath and the Privy Council (collectively).

Note that in US usage, a very large number of office-holders (both
political and non-political) are styled "The Honorable", for no
obvious reason; some of these people retain the attribution of honor
after their service has ended, in the same way as presidents,
ambassadors, and so on. Judges are the only ones who are consistently
so styled, particularly when their formal title is postposed: "Judge
Billings", but "The Honorable Franklin S. Billings, Jr., presiding".
A somewhat odder usage attributes the honor to the court itself,
rather than the judges, as in the traditional opening of the US
Supreme Court given by the Marshal:

Oyez! Oyez! Oyez! All persons having business before the
Honorable, the Supreme Court of the United States, are
admonished to draw near and give their attention, for the
Court is now sitting.

The governor of Massachusetts is "His Excellency the Governor" by
title (but not when his actual name is used) because John Adams
thought it was a good idea.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wol...@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

[Peter Moylan]

On 12/12/21 01:14, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 23:11:09 -0800 (PST), Dingbat
> <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?
>
> "Right" is an intensifier.
>
> In formal use in titles "Right Honourable" is higher in status than
> "Honourable.
>
> "Most Honourable" is a distinct title/mode of address.

It occurs to me that these inflated titles must originally have been
invented by narcissists.

Using "Honourable" for politicians is particularly silly. How often do
you meet an honourable politician?

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Tony Cooper]

I can't cite where I've read this, but aren't the offspring of the
titled sometimes referred to as "Honorables"? Not as a indication of
current status, but as an indication of future status.

--

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

[Dingbat]

Most illuminating, thanks. There's also "Right royal":

I've not seen it used positively before, as in
<<A right royal time/do (party)/ evening etc is a really good time. It's a reference to the grand/costly/memorable displays of royal occasions.>>
- Trudy Cole, lives in Great Britain, on Oct 21, 2019
https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-British-expression-right-royal-mean

[Bob Martin]

but not a Right Winger, unlike the current tosser.

[Richard Heathfield]

Right; Blair is undoubtedly on the left... but presumably you wouldn't
quibble with the observation that he's still a tosser.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Saturday, 11 December 2021 at 18:11:12 UTC+11, Dingbat wrote:
> Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?
>

Wrong Dishonourable.

[Snidely]

Remember Saturday, when Peter Duncanson [BrE] asked plaintively:

We generally assume Everbody Else are bastards. No shortage on any
side of the aisle.

/dps "yeah, yeah, is a"

--
Ieri, oggi, domani

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 14:50:21 +1100, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

It is possible that a title, honourable/whatever, refers to the positinn
occupied by the individual not the behaviour or personality of the
individual.

Many decades ago I was in the (UK) Royal Air Force. During Basic
Training we were taught how to salute and who to salute.
The rules required us to salute officers. The corporal instucting us
memorably said:

"When you salute you are saluting the uniform, not the idiot who is
wearing it".

The uniform, of course, has symbols indicating the rank of the wearer.

[CDB]

On 12/11/2021 10:50 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:

> Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>> Dingbat <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>> Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?

>> "Right" is an intensifier.

>> In formal use in titles "Right Honourable" is higher in status
>> than "Honourable.

>> "Most Honourable" is a distinct title/mode of address.

> It occurs to me that these inflated titles must originally have been
> invented by narcissists.

> Using "Honourable" for politicians is particularly silly. How often
> do you meet an honourable politician?

Cabinet Ministers and Senators are styled "the Honourable (name) here.
I made a point of writing that "Hon.". The PM is a "Right Hon." because
he is /ex officio/ a member of the Imp^W British Privy Council.

Actually, I'm not sure if that last is still true. Maybe by now the
title is just a matter of habit.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 8:50:28 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 12/12/21 01:14, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> > On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 23:11:09 -0800 (PST), Dingbat
> > <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Does "Right Honorable" mean "Most Honorable"?
> >
> > "Right" is an intensifier.
> >
> > In formal use in titles "Right Honourable" is higher in status than
> > "Honourable.
> >
> > "Most Honourable" is a distinct title/mode of address.

> It occurs to me that these inflated titles must originally have been
> invented by narcissists.

...

Or by people who had to deal with narcissists, or by people who had to
get the commoners to obey, or by people who were trying to prevent
physical fights in legislative assemblies.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

It still applies to members of the Privy Council of the United Kingdom.
The MP for where I live, Jeffrey Donaldson, is a Privy Councillor and
has the title "The Right Honourable".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Donaldson

This describes the multiple uses of "The Right Honourable":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_Honourable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privy_Council_of_the_United_Kingdom

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <9buargti9nvqon2f9...@4ax.com>,

Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I can't cite where I've read this, but aren't the offspring of the
>titled sometimes referred to as "Honorables"? Not as a indication of
>current status, but as an indication of future status.

Not quite. The offspring of a hereditary peer who are far enough down
in the succession that they don't even get a courtesy title are styled
"The Honourable".

(AIUI: Higher-ranking peers tend to have multiple peerages, and the
lower-ranking ones are used by the heirs apparent in rank order, so an
elderly peer might be The Duke of W, his firstborn son The Viscount X,
his grandson Lord Surname, The Baron Surname of Crimblethorpe, the
latter all being courtesy titles formally held by the Duke. But the
Duke's second son would be Lord Firstname Surname, unless created a
peer in his own right; the male children of the second son would be
The Honourable Firstname Surname. This might be horribly out of date;
most of my understanding comes from Baring-Gould's _The Annotated
Sherlock Holmes_, so it's probably semi-accurate for the Victorian and
Edwardian periods.)

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2021-12-13 00:23:55 +0000, Garrett Wollman said:

> In article <9buargti9nvqon2f9...@4ax.com>,
> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I can't cite where I've read this, but aren't the offspring of the
>> titled sometimes referred to as "Honorables"? Not as a indication of
>> current status, but as an indication of future status.
>
> Not quite. The offspring of a hereditary peer who are far enough down
> in the succession that they don't even get a courtesy title are styled
> "The Honourable".

As for example Jessica Mitford, who was the Hon. Jessica
Freeman-Mitford because her father was a mere baron, Lord Redesdale,
right at the bottom of the noble heap.

>
> (AIUI: Higher-ranking peers tend to have multiple peerages, and the
> lower-ranking ones are used by the heirs apparent in rank order, so an
> elderly peer might be The Duke of W, his firstborn son The Viscount X,
> his grandson Lord Surname, The Baron Surname of Crimblethorpe, the
> latter all being courtesy titles formally held by the Duke. But the
> Duke's second son would be Lord Firstname Surname, unless created a
> peer in his own right; the male children of the second son would be
> The Honourable Firstname Surname. This might be horribly out of date;
> most of my understanding comes from Baring-Gould's _The Annotated
> Sherlock Holmes_, so it's probably semi-accurate for the Victorian and
> Edwardian periods.)
>
> -GAWollman


--

[CDB]

On 12/12/2021 12:13 PM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

WP confirms that our PM is still a Rt. Hon., but says nothing about
membership in the UK Privy Council that I can find. My God, what a lot
of material about him there is in the 'Pedia.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Does it explain why he always seems to be out of breath when he talks?

bill

[Janet]

In article <j1jra2...@mid.individual.net>, K...@invalidinvalid.com
says...

Pity.

In Br E we would also use terms like " right Charlie" which = "right
idiot". "Right mess", "right pickle" are also in common use.

Janet

[CDB]

On 12/13/2021 4:36 PM, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

Valley girl in his family tree? I wish there were another leader for
the NGP.

[Jerry Friedman]

We have "total" for that. Well, rarely if at all before "pickle".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Tony Cooper]

American English is not at all devoid of words to insult other people.
We may not use the same words that the British use, but we manage.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Yes, but that won't happen unless Trudeau lands himself in a major scandal --
something juicier than the WE charity thing -- or the Conservatives find themselves
a genuinely charismatic leader. In short, fat chance.

bill

[CDB]

--
Too depressed to respond.

[lar3ryca]

I hate to say "Me too", but in this case, I have to say it.
Me too.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Trudeau fils won't be there forever. It just seems that way, because we
haven't yet caught sight of the political pothole that will break one of his
axles. Also, Trudeau has used up all the credit he had for calling snap elections.
That reduces his flexibility, which gives the combined opposition parties more
influence on the timing of the next election.

bill