(1) etymology of "hammy", (2) "... and I must bye"
Tomoyuki Tanaka
(1) could someone tell me the origin of the word "hammy"?
it's a pretty recent word (1929).
ham-my \'ham-e^-\ ham-mi-er; -est (1929)
:marked by exaggerated and usu. self-conscious
theatricality
-- ham-mi-ly \'ham-e-le^-\ adv
-- ham-mi-ness \'ham-e^--nes\ n
--------------------------------------------------------------------
(2) on the net i see both "... and I must bide"
and "... and I must bye".
was this seemingly inept version popularized by Elvis?
http://www.legendsofmusic.com/ElvisPresley/lyricsd.html
Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen and down the mountain side
The summer's gone and all the roses dying [falling]
'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bye
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
> D.R.Hofstadter: "alien" "inscrutable" "Oriental mind"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>> in "Metamagical Themas" (1985) Hofstadter self-righteously
>> preached nonsexist language (word choices, etc) with
>> hypersensitivity.
>>
>> in "Le Ton beau de Marot" (1997) Hofstadter casually makes
>> fun of Asians with the phrases such as
>> "inscrutable" "the Oriental mind" and other outdated
>> (and inherently racist) stereotypes.
>>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
> from Douglas Hofstadter's book "Le Ton beau de Marot" (1997)
>
> "Could it be that the very idea of transculturation
> itself is a Western one, and strikes the Oriental mind
> as alien?" (Page 148)
>
> "By virtue of being overly Oriental, it would be
> extraordinarily disorienting!" (Page 149)
>
> have you read another book that's published in the last 20
> years or so that uses the words like "inscrutable" and "the
> Oriental mind" (or other racist stereotypes) to make fun of
> Asians?
>
> if so, could you let me know?
> i'm esp. interested in books by non-comedians.
>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>> NYT's review article of Douglas Hofstadter's book "Le
>> Ton beau de Marot"
>> http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/07/20/reviews/970720.20altert.html
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
Donna Richoux
> (1) could someone tell me the origin of the word "hammy"?
> it's a pretty recent word (1929).
>
> ham-my \'ham-e^-\ ham-mi-er; -est (1929)
> :marked by exaggerated and usu. self-conscious
> theatricality
> -- ham-mi-ly \'ham-e-le^-\ adv
> -- ham-mi-ness \'ham-e^--nes\ n
The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang has an earlier
citation for "hammy," dated 1899. It comes, of course, from the noun
"ham," in the sense of "an untalented actor or variety performer, esp.
one given to overacting," which they date from 1881.
As usual, it is impossible to be sure of the origins of slang, but this
one appears to come from "hamfatter: an inept performer" which is
believed to be derived from "The Hamfat Man," a Negro-style song "much
used by traveling minstrels." "Hamfatter" was recorded in 1889 as being
used contemptuously for minstrel performers, although there are also
some earlier citations (back to 1879) that are not so clearly specified.
There is unsupported speculation is that "ham" is connected to Hamlet.
The verb "to ham" as in "to ham it up" is recorded only from 1930 on.
At first I thought we had talked about this before in a.u.e, but now I
think that discussion was about "chewing up the scenery," also related
to overacting.
--
Best wishes --- Donna Richoux
Sébastien-Jérôme W K Hew
inexpert performer -- an ineffective or over-emphatic actor, one who rants
or overacts'. OED
Sébastien Hew.
Tomoyuki Tanaka <tan...@web1.calweb.com> wrote in message
news:39b096ea$1...@news3.calweb.com...
Tomoyuki Tanaka
thank you very much for the information.
In article <1egbuso.dge22dtr35sN%tr...@euronet.nl>,
Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote:
>
> There is unsupported speculation is that "ham" is connected
> to Hamlet.
i like this theory.
maybe "ham" comes from "ham-fisted" and "ham-handed".
http://www.m-w.com
Main Entry: ham-hand·ed
Pronunciation: -"han-d&d
Function: adjective
Date: 1918
: lacking dexterity or grace : HEAVY-HANDED
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> (2) on the net i see both "... and I must bide"
> and "... and I must bye".
>
> was this seemingly inept version popularized by Elvis?
>
> http://www.legendsofmusic.com/ElvisPresley/lyricsd.html
>
> Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
> From glen to glen and down the mountain side
> The summer's gone and all the roses dying [falling]
> 'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bye
i must say that "you must go and I must bye" has some
simplistic appeal.
it means, "you must go and I must [say] [good-]bye"
sort of kindergarten English.
John Steele Gordon
> > (2) on the net i see both "... and I must bide"
> > and "... and I must bye".
> >
> > was this seemingly inept version popularized by Elvis?
> >
> > http://www.legendsofmusic.com/ElvisPresley/lyricsd.html
> >
> > Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
> > From glen to glen and down the mountain side
> > The summer's gone and all the roses dying [falling]
> > 'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bye
>
> i must say that "you must go and I must bye" has some
> simplistic appeal.
>
> it means, "you must go and I must [say] [good-]bye"
In the original "Danny Boy" isn't it "I must bide"? I.E. You must go and
I must wait. I always supposed it was about a mother saying goodbye to
her son who is about to emigrate.
The next verse is something about "Then come ye back, when summer's in
the meadow or when the valley's hushed and deep with snow . . . ."
This song is usually hammed up to a fare-thee-well by Irish tenors, but
it always brings more than one tear to my non-Irish eyes.
JSG
Angeline
"bye" bit.
John Steele Gordon wrote in message <39B1031D...@worldnet.att.net>...
Tomoyuki Tanaka
In article <39B1031D...@worldnet.att.net>,
emigrate to where?
i always thought it was a girl saying goodbye to her lover
going off to war (like Croppy Boy).
but a mother bidding farewell to her son makes more sense.
"And if I am dead, as dead I may well be"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/eire/odannybo.htm
Danny Boy
Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side
The summer's gone, and all the roses falling
'Tis you, 'tis you must go, and I must bide.
2. But come you back when summer's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis I'll be there in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Danny boy, oh Danny boy, I love you so.
3. But if you come, and all the flowers are dying
And if I am dead, as dead I may well be
You'll come and find the place where I am lying
And kneel and say an "Ave" there for me.
And I shall hear, tho' soft you tread above me
And all my dreams shall warm and sweeter be
If you will bend and tell me that you love me
Then I will sleep in peace until you come to me.
Peter T. Daniels
> In the original "Danny Boy" isn't it "I must bide"? I.E. You must go and
> I must wait. I always supposed it was about a mother saying goodbye to
> her son who is about to emigrate.
It's a father sending his boy to war.
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@worldnet.att.net
John Steele Gordon
>
> In article <39B1031D...@worldnet.att.net>,
> John Steele Gordon <JSGGen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >In the original "Danny Boy" isn't it "I must bide"? I.E. You must go and
> >I must wait. I always supposed it was about a mother saying goodbye to
> >her son who is about to emigrate.
> >
> >The next verse is something about "Then come ye back, when summer's in
> >the meadow or when the valley's hushed and deep with snow . . . ."
> >
> >This song is usually hammed up to a fare-thee-well by Irish tenors, but
> >it always brings more than one tear to my non-Irish eyes.
> >
> >JSG
>
> emigrate to where?
America most likely, but Canada or Australia as well, or, perhaps,
England. The population of Ireland fell by half after the famine.
Perhaps a million died in the famine, but many more emigrated.
JSG
Mike Oliver
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
>
> John Steele Gordon wrote:
>
> > In the original "Danny Boy" isn't it "I must bide"? I.E. You must go and
> > I must wait. I always supposed it was about a mother saying goodbye to
> > her son who is about to emigrate.
>
> It's a father sending his boy to war.
That makes sense. In any case the title of the song isn't "Danny Boy" --
it's "Londonderry Air".
John Steele Gordon
> In any case the title of the song isn't "Danny Boy" --
> it's "Londonderry Air".
True enough, but I think that's a lost cause. It's sort of like Theodore
Roosevelt. He was called Teedie as a child and Theodore by his friends
and family as an adult. He detested the nickname given him by the
newspapers, but no matter. That guy up on Mt. Rushmore is Teddy
Roosevelt and always will be.
JSG
Bruce Tindall
I do not like green poached eyes on ghost and ham!
I do not like them, Shem I am!
B "Haveth Catinthehats Everywhere" T
--
Today is the first day of the rest of the twentieth century.
Bruce Tindall :: tin...@panix.com
Richard Palmer
<JSGGen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>In the original "Danny Boy" isn't it "I must bide"? I.E. You must go and
>I must wait. I always supposed it was about a mother saying goodbye to
>her son who is about to emigrate.
If it was anything else but "bide", it wouldn't rhyme with "mountain
side". It's not rocket science....
Richard
Peter Moylan
>In the original "Danny Boy" isn't it "I must bide"? I.E. You must go and
>I must wait. I always supposed it was about a mother saying goodbye to
>her son who is about to emigrate.
That's certainly a possibility.
For some reason the song always puts me in mind of a former lover.
She was English, not Irish, so the connection is somewhat obscure.
Be that as it may, I'll never forget her London derrière.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au
N.Mitchum
-----
> >I always supposed it was about a mother saying goodbye to
> >her son who is about to emigrate.
>
> That's certainly a possibility.
>
> For some reason the song always puts me in mind of a former lover.
> She was English, not Irish, so the connection is somewhat obscure.
I myself had supposed it was a sad love song about a girl mourning
the departure of her lover, until I heard a very convincing
argument that it was actually the lament of a mother whose son is
leaving for America; she certainly shall never see him again.
This interpretation makes the song twice at affecting: a girl can
always find another boy, but a son is forever.
----NM
Richard Herring
> I think the change came about because the Scots object to the use of the
> term "Scotch" except to designate a kind of whiskey.
Not half as much as they object to the use of the term "whiskey"
to designate whisky.
--
Richard Herring | <richard...@baesystems.com>
Tom Deveson
draper <pdr...@baig.co.uk> writes
>Surely the *tune* is the (London)Derry Air. There are other sets of words to
>it.
There was a BBC radio documentary about this a few months back. There
are at least 100 sets of words to the tune. The lyrics known as 'Danny
Boy' were originally written by Frederic Edward Weatherly (1848-1929),
an English lawyer who is never known to have visited Ireland.
He wrote them in 1910 to a different tune, but the song was
unsuccessful. A relation sent him the tune, 'Londonderry Air', and he
found his words would fit, so he republished the song with the 'new'
tune in 1913.
It appears to be a nice example of the invention of tradition.
Tom (apologies if all this has been discussed before)
--
Tom Deveson
edward mason
Ted (married to a Scot)
Richard Fontana <re...@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.100090...@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu...
> On Tue, 5 Sep 2000, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > Aaron J Dinkin wrote:
> > >
> > > In alt.usage.english John Steele Gordon
<JSGGen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Just for the record, most of the people who were settled in northern
> > > > Ireland in Elizabethan and Cromwellian times were from the border
> > > > regions of Scotland and England. They were quite a different group
from
> > > > those we normally think of as "English," and are usually called
> > > > "Scots-Irish" in the US.
> > >
> > > I thought they were usually called "Scotch-Irish" in the US. Am I
wrong?
> >
> > You are correct, sir. I grew up in a Scotch-Irish Presbyterian church in
> > New York City.
>
> You mean they never let you out? That was rather cruel of them.
>
> --
> Richard
>
Jim Purcell
> Not half as much as they object to the use of the term "whiskey"
> to designate whisky.
you know that ones ability to spell has nothing to do with their intelligence,
DUH! :-)
Jim
John Steele Gordon
Well, I was the one who spelled it "whiskey" and that is the spelling
given first in MW9NCD. I see in the OED that it is "modern trade usage"
to spell it "Scotch whisky" and "Irish Whiskey."
I guess I was too busy saying, "Thank you, I'd love one," to notice how
it was spelled on the bottle.
JSG
Richard Herring
Did I mention intelligence?
No, and I don't stoop to spelling flames either.
But when people are nitpicking about the correct usage of
Scots/Scottish/Scotch, it seems a pity not to use the appropriate word
in the other half of the phrase.
--
Richard Herring | <richard...@baesystems.com>
Estron
> The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang has an earlier
> citation for "hammy," dated 1899. It comes, of course, from the noun
> "ham," in the sense of "an untalented actor or variety performer, esp.
> one given to overacting," which they date from 1881.
So, if a talented performer hogs the stage or overacts, he or she is not
a ham? What a relief.
--
As always, all opinions are just that.
Pax vobiscum.
est...@tfs.net
Kansas City, Missouri
Steve Emerson
>
> Jim Purcell wrote:
> >
> > Now Richard,
> >
> > > Not half as much as they object to the use of the term "whiskey"
> > > to designate whisky.
> >
> > you know that ones ability to spell has nothing to do with their intelligence,
> > DUH! :-)
>
> Well, I was the one who spelled it "whiskey" and that is the spelling
> given first in MW9NCD. I see in the OED that it is "modern trade usage"
> to spell it "Scotch whisky" and "Irish Whiskey."
"Whiskey" for bourbon also.
SE.
Phil Dragoman
Padraig Breathnach wrote in message <8pUt5.1630$44....@news.iol.ie>...
>Steve Emerson wrote:
>
>>"Whiskey" for bourbon also.
>>
>Bloody cheek!
Níl aithne acu ar an fhior-uisce beatha.
Slán,
Pilib Ó Dreagomáin
Steve Emerson
>
> Steve Emerson wrote:
>
> >"Whiskey" for bourbon also.
> >
> Bloody cheek!
I draw the line at Canadian.
SE.
Aaron J Dinkin
> Steve Emerson wrote:
>
>>"Whiskey" for bourbon also.
>
> Bloody cheek!
Ah, I see you too shave after drinking.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Peter T. Daniels
>
> Donna Richoux wrote:
>
> > The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang has an earlier
> > citation for "hammy," dated 1899. It comes, of course, from the noun
> > "ham," in the sense of "an untalented actor or variety performer, esp.
> > one given to overacting," which they date from 1881.
>
> So, if a talented performer hogs the stage or overacts, he or she is not
> a ham? What a relief.
Wouldn't s/he then _ipso facto_ be untalented?
David McMurray
Eric The Read <emsc...@rmi.net> wrote:
> Steve Emerson <seme...@dnai.com> writes:
> > John Steele Gordon wrote:
> > > Well, I was the one who spelled it "whiskey" and that is the spelling
> > > given first in MW9NCD. I see in the OED that it is "modern trade usage"
> > > to spell it "Scotch whisky" and "Irish Whiskey."
> >
> > "Whiskey" for bourbon also.
>
> The usage amongst connoisseurs is 'whisky' for Scotch, and 'whiskey' for
> everything else, unless it's bourbon or such, in which case the more
> specific name is used.
Canadian rye is "whisky", whatever connoisseurs might think.
--
David
Eric The Read
> Canadian rye is "whisky", whatever connoisseurs might think.
Probably due to the heavy Scots influence on the population. Even so,
that doesn't make 'em right. :)
-=Eric
--
Bradley's Bromide:
If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a
committee -- that will do them in.
Bill Kinkaid
wrote:
It's whisky if it's made in Scotland or Canada (rye), and whiskey if
it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
If it's made anywhere else in the world, it don't count.
Bill in Vancouver
Seeg file? We don't need no steenking seeg file!
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On Thu, 07 Sep 2000 10:39:53 -0700, Steve Emerson <seme...@dnai.com>
>wrote:
>>John Steele Gordon wrote:
>>> Jim Purcell wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Not half as much as they object to the use of the term "whiskey"
>>> > > to designate whisky.
>>> >
>>> > you know that ones ability to spell has nothing to do with their intelligence,
>>> > DUH! :-)
>>>
>>> Well, I was the one who spelled it "whiskey" and that is the spelling
>>> given first in MW9NCD. I see in the OED that it is "modern trade usage"
>>> to spell it "Scotch whisky" and "Irish Whiskey."
>>
>>"Whiskey" for bourbon also.
>>
>
>It's whisky if it's made in Scotland or Canada (rye), and whiskey if
>it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
Bourbon is not the same as whiskey. Whiskey is a blend. Old Granddad
and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
Charles Riggs
khann
>
> >It's whisky if it's made in Scotland or Canada (rye), and whiskey if
> >it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
>
> and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
American whiskies are divided into three major categories: straight
whiskey, light whiskey, and blended whiskey. The four major types of
straight whiskey are: Bourbon whiskey, rye whiskey, corn whiskey, and
bottled-in-bond whiskey.
The name "Bourbon" derives from its point of origin in Bourbon County,
Kentucky, but by US law Bourbon is defined by its ingredients and
process, not by its point of origin. Bourbon whiskey is distilled from a
mash containing not less than 51% corn and is aged in new charred white
oak barrels. When distilled in Kentucky it is usually referred to as
"Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey". Produced elsewhere, as in Illinois,
Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee, etc, it is customarily referred to as
"Bourbon".
Bourbon is whiskey.
Wild Turkey and Old Granddad are most certainly whiskies but, if they
exceed 80 proof, they cannot be Bourbon according to legal definition.
KHann
D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff
Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:20:34 GMT, kin...@look.ca (Bill Kinkaid)
>wrote:
[...]
>>it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
>
>and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
And rye is not the same as whisky. I read the terms in parentheses as
subordinate. That is, USAmerican whiskey includes bourbon. (Those of
provincial mindset would say that, if it isn't from Bourbon County in
Kentucky, then it isn't bourbon.)
Besides, is whiskey *always* a blend? If so, then why do we have the term
"blended whisk(e)y"?
--
Daniel "Da" von Brighoff /\ Dilettanten
(de...@midway.uchicago.edu) /__\ erhebt Euch
/____\ gegen die Kunst!
Curious
> >It's whisky if it's made in Scotland or Canada (rye), and whiskey if
> >it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
>
> and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
>
No, the very best of whiskies, the Scotch single malts,
are by definition not blends.
My personal favourites are Lagavulin and Laphroaig.
Roger
Olivers
>
> >It's whisky if it's made in Scotland or Canada (rye), and whiskey if
> >it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
>
> Bourbon is not the same as whiskey. Whiskey is a blend. Old Granddad
> and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
You are a foolish man who knoweth not of what he speaks.
Bourbon is a whiskey made from at least 51% corn mash (and in most
better whiskies is "all corn"). The name came from the high incidence
of whiskey distilling in Bourbon County, Kaintuck, but may now be
applied generically within the state. Tennessee distillers (such as
Jack Daniels, et al) do not call their product "Bourbon". Presumably,
were a distiller to offer a mix of several Bourbons, it could be called
"Blended Bourbon" but I've never seen one, and Bourbons, like Scotch
Single Malts, traditionally represent the run of a single distillery.
Other US whiskeys are generally "blends" of alcohols distilled from corn
and other grains. "Rye' of course requires a substantial portion/maybe
all of its content to have come from a mash made from rye.
Canadian whiskeys are blends.
To claim that Old Grandad or Wild Turkey are not whiskey is heresy,
punishable by enforced abstention.... WTF do you think they are if they
are not "whiskey"?
A Dickel man, myself.
Alex Chernavsky
>Tennessee distillers (such as Jack Daniels, et al)
>do not call their product "Bourbon".
The website for Jack Daniel's (note the apostrophe) implies that
charcoal-filtering is what prevents JD from being bourbon:
====Begin quote====
Jack Daniel's Old No. 7 Brand Old-Time Tennessee Sour Mash Whiskey is a
whiskey and not a bourbon. Unlike bourbon, Jack Daniel's is
charcoal-mellowed smooth, drop by drop through 10 feet of charcoal made from
sugar maple.
http://www.jackdaniels.com/oldno7/oldno7.asp
====End quote====
--
Alex Chernavsky
al...@astrocyte-design.com
Padraig Breathnach
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:20:34 GMT, kin...@look.ca (Bill Kinkaid)
>> wrote:
>>
>[...]
>>
>> >it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
>>
>> and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
>
>
>whiskey, light whiskey, and blended whiskey. The four major types of
>straight whiskey are: Bourbon whiskey, rye whiskey, corn whiskey, and
>bottled-in-bond whiskey.
>
>The name "Bourbon" derives from its point of origin in Bourbon County,
>Kentucky, but by US law Bourbon is defined by its ingredients and
>process, not by its point of origin. Bourbon whiskey is distilled from a
>mash containing not less than 51% corn and is aged in new charred white
>oak barrels. When distilled in Kentucky it is usually referred to as
>"Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey". Produced elsewhere, as in Illinois,
>Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee, etc, it is customarily referred to as
>"Bourbon".
>
>Bourbon is whiskey.
>
>Wild Turkey and Old Granddad are most certainly whiskies but, if they
>exceed 80 proof, they cannot be Bourbon according to legal definition.
>
know better.
PB
Padraig Breathnach
>> >It's whisky if it's made in Scotland or Canada (rye), and whiskey if
>> >it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
>>
>> Bourbon is not the same as whiskey. Whiskey is a blend. Old Granddad
>> and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
>>
>> Charles Riggs
>
>No, the very best of whiskies, the Scotch single malts,
>are by definition not blends.
>
Charles was writing about whiskeys; you are writing about whiskies. There is
a difference.
PB
Padraig Breathnach
wrong between my software and my server.
PB
Arcadian Rises
>
>My personal favourites are Lagavulin and Laphroaig.
>
So what?
Are you dropping hints in here?
Cheers
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:20:34 GMT, kin...@look.ca (Bill Kinkaid)
>> wrote:
>>
>[...]
>>
>> >It's whisky if it's made in Scotland or Canada (rye), and whiskey if
>> >it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
>>
>> Bourbon is not the same as whiskey. Whiskey is a blend. Old Granddad
>> and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
>
>
>American whiskies are divided into three major categories: straight
>whiskey, light whiskey, and blended whiskey. The four major types of
>straight whiskey are: Bourbon whiskey, rye whiskey, corn whiskey, and
>bottled-in-bond whiskey.
>
>The name "Bourbon" derives from its point of origin in Bourbon County,
>Kentucky, but by US law Bourbon is defined by its ingredients and
>process, not by its point of origin. Bourbon whiskey is distilled from a
>mash containing not less than 51% corn and is aged in new charred white
>oak barrels. When distilled in Kentucky it is usually referred to as
>"Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey". Produced elsewhere, as in Illinois,
>Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee, etc, it is customarily referred to as
>"Bourbon".
>
>Bourbon is whiskey.
>
>Wild Turkey and Old Granddad are most certainly whiskies but, if they
>exceed 80 proof, they cannot be Bourbon according to legal definition.
I stand corrected. Still, I make a distinction between bourbon and
whiskey but I'm not sure on what exact grounds.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>
>> >It's whisky if it's made in Scotland or Canada (rye), and whiskey if
>> >it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
>>
>> Bourbon is not the same as whiskey. Whiskey is a blend. Old Granddad
>> and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
>>
>> Charles Riggs
>
>No, the very best of whiskies, the Scotch single malts,
>are by definition not blends.
Good point. Being an almost exclusively Guinness man, I'm obviously no
expert on whiskey.
>My personal favourites are Lagavulin and Laphroaig.
I don't much care for Scotch but I once had a lovely shot from a
bottle the bartender (1) in Edinburgh pulled out from under the
counter. It was not for sale and I believe she said it was 150 years
old. I don't recall the name of it.
1. Why isn't there a name for a female bartender, such as "barman"
when male? "Barwoman" doesn't seem to work.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
>To claim that Old Grandad or Wild Turkey are not whiskey is heresy,
>punishable by enforced abstention.... WTF do you think they are if they
>are not "whiskey"?
What the fuck is wrong with calling them bourbons as most people do?
By the way, most of us are adults here and it is silly and unnecessary
to write such things as "WTF".
Charles Riggs
Chris Conner
Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>1. Why isn't there a name for a female bartender, such as "barman"
>when male? "Barwoman" doesn't seem to work.
Barmaid. But what's wrong with "bartender"?
--
Chris Conner
Brian J Goggin
<chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>I stand corrected. Still, I make a distinction between bourbon and
>whiskey but I'm not sure on what exact grounds.
Not at all. Sit down and have a drink.
bjg
Brian J Goggin
<chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>1. Why isn't there a name for a female bartender, such as "barman"
>when male? "Barwoman" doesn't seem to work.
Barmaid.
bjg [aue only]
khann
>
> khann wrote
>
> >> Bourbon is not the same as whiskey. Whiskey is a blend. Old Granddad
> >> and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
> >
> >Bourbon is whiskey.
> >
> >Wild Turkey and Old Granddad are most certainly whiskies but, if they
> >exceed 80 proof, they cannot be Bourbon according to legal definition.
> >
> know better.
Hey! I didn't say that it was _good_ whiskey, just that it fit the
definition of a whiskey. But I'm with you, give me a nice dram of
Jameson's best any day. The character of US whiskey seems to be related
to USans' original Puritan ethic, and the necessity to mortify the flesh
to expiate the sin of drinking demon alcohol.
KHann
Perchprism
>From: cco...@u.washington.edu (Chris Conner)
>Date: 10/14/00 2:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <8s8vgt$2jde$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
>
>In article <odsfus4s2u1p41m3b...@4ax.com>,
>Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>
>>1. Why isn't there a name for a female bartender, such as "barman"
>>when male? "Barwoman" doesn't seem to work.
>
A termite walks into a bar and says, "Where's the bar tender?"
--
Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
P&D Schultz
>
> <...> Still, I make a distinction between bourbon and
> whiskey but I'm not sure on what exact grounds.
Why not? I make a distinction between feta and cheese.
\\P. Schultz
Murray Arnow
>Chris wrote:
>>From: cco...@u.washington.edu (Chris Conner)
>>Date: 10/14/00 2:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <8s8vgt$2jde$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
>>
>>In article <odsfus4s2u1p41m3b...@4ax.com>,
>>Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>>
>>>1. Why isn't there a name for a female bartender, such as "barman"
>>>when male? "Barwoman" doesn't seem to work.
>>
>> Barmaid. But what's wrong with "bartender"?
>
>A termite walks into a bar and says, "Where's the bar tender?"
>
And...
Some primal termite knocked on wood
And tasted it, and found it good!
And that is why your Cousin May
Fell through the parlor floor today.
ON
picaresque
Olivers <ol...@calpha.com> wrote:
> Charles Riggs wrote:
> >
>
> > >It's whisky if it's made in Scotland or Canada (rye), and whiskey
if
> > >it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
> >
> > and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
>
>
> Bourbon is a whiskey made from at least 51% corn mash (and in most
> better whiskies is "all corn"). The name came from the high incidence
> of whiskey distilling in Bourbon County, Kaintuck, but may now be
> applied generically within the state. Tennessee distillers (such as
> Jack Daniels, et al) do not call their product "Bourbon". Presumably,
> were a distiller to offer a mix of several Bourbons, it could be
called
> "Blended Bourbon" but I've never seen one, and Bourbons,
I had always thought that the main difference between "new world"
whiskey and "old world" was the make-up of the mash. In Kentucy and
others the mash is corn/maize while in Europe corn does not equal maize.
Barleycorn and other grains are used (I think). Corn as it is known in
the Americas was completly unknown to the European distillers, until
recently.
Is corn/maize ever served in Europe as it is in the U.S. Corn on the
cob?
like Scotch
> Single Malts, traditionally represent the run of a single distillery.
> Other US whiskeys are generally "blends" of alcohols distilled from
corn
> and other grains. "Rye' of course requires a substantial
portion/maybe
> all of its content to have come from a mash made from rye.
>
-
picaresque
Her breasts were like ripe strawberries, but much bigger, a completely
different color, not as bumpy, and without the little green things on
top.
--Steve Gray, Santa Monica CA (1999 Dark and Stormy Night contest)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Padraig Breathnach
>Thus Spake Charles Riggs:
>
>> 1. Why isn't there a name for a female bartender, such as "barman"
>> when male? "Barwoman" doesn't seem to work.
>
Wenches are for nuts.
PB
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>In article <odsfus4s2u1p41m3b...@4ax.com>,
>Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>
>>1. Why isn't there a name for a female bartender, such as "barman"
>>when male? "Barwoman" doesn't seem to work.
>
> Barmaid.
I used that word once here in AUE and was chastised for it. I
subsequently tried it out on a female bartender I know and was
chastised again. Apparently, it sounds demeaning to some.
>But what's wrong with "bartender"?
Most of the time, nothing, but sometimes, when the sex of the person
is of importance, it is useful to be able to make the distinction. For
example: "I'd tell that joke to a barman but not to a barmaid".
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>Thus Spake Charles Riggs:
>
>> 1. Why isn't there a name for a female bartender, such as "barman"
>> when male? "Barwoman" doesn't seem to work.
>
>Have you ceased using "wench"?
No, but the right word should be used for the right occasion and
"wench" wouldn't generally work for barmaid, or whatever the PC word
is nowadays.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Is corn/maize ever served in Europe as it is in the U.S. Corn on the
>cob?
Corn on the cob is available in Europe though I've yet to see it
served in a restaurant. The frozen variety is always available in
supermarkets whereas the fresh variety is harder to come by, even when
in season. The price, in Ireland anyway, is several times what you'd
pay in America. Artichokes, unfortunately, are as hard to find and,
when found, the prices are sky-high in Ireland; I don't know the corn
and artichoke situations in Great Britain though artichokes are, of
course, often on the menus in France.
Charles Riggs
R. Fontana
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:06:40 GMT, picaresque <bbr...@mail.shasta.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >Is corn/maize ever served in Europe as it is in the U.S. Corn on the
> >cob?
>
> Corn on the cob is available in Europe though I've yet to see it
> served in a restaurant.
Is corn on the cob served in very many American restaurants?
--
Richard
Alex Chernavsky
>Is corn on the cob served in very many American restaurants?
I've seen it sold in KFC (formerly known as "Kentucky Fried Chicken")
restaurants.
--
Alex Chernavsky
al...@astrocyte-design.com
Red Valerian
wrote:
>>> > > Not half as much as they object to the use of the term "whiskey"
>>> > > to designate whisky.
In Tobias Smollett's epistolary novel of 1771 "the Expedition of
Humphry Clinker" one of the characters feels it necessary to write a
letter home from Scotland explaining the term 'whisky' and expounding
on its use by the Scots:
"The Highlanders, on the contrary, despise this liquor [a thin yeasty
substance made of malt] and regale themselves with whisky; a malt
spirit, as strong as geneva, which they swallow in great quantities,
without any signs of inebriation. They are used to it from the cradle,
and find it an excellent preservative against the winter cold, which
must be extreme on these mountains -- I am told that it is given with
great success to infants, as a cordial in the confluent smallpox, when
the eruption seems to flag, and the symptoms grow unfavourable."
Of course Smollett may have had his tongue firmly in his cheek here,
but it does give pause for thought.
Red
Stephen Toogood
<chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> writes
yield, low-flavour stuff that can at least be induced to ripen in a
miserable summer such as this year's.
You'll know the importance of freshness in cobs. No point in buying them
much more than 24 hours off the plant. Little chance of that in
supermarkets. There was some on the market yesterday that tempted me,
but I was going out to lunch yesterday, so I resisted. It was five cobs
for £1 if that gives an idea of the price.
As to artichokes, if a few UK farmers grew them they'd be cheaper. I
don't think I've ever seen them on a market stall outside London.
Jerusalems are a different matter of course.
--
Stephen Toogood
picaresque
the time it actually gets to the customer's plate, the corn has lost all
of it's sweetness and it is overcooked. It is also a messy food to eat.
I asked the question because I had an aunt from Germany who came to the
US in the late 1950's and was somewhat insulted when we served corn on
the cob. She said that the only use she had ever seen (at that time) for
the corn, was for pig food. Just wondering if the status of corn on the
cob had been elevated since then :-)
--
Skitt
"picaresque" <bbr...@mail.shasta.com> wrote in message
news:8sctfk$qkt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I asked the question because I had an aunt from Germany who came to the
> US in the late 1950's and was somewhat insulted when we served corn on
> the cob. She said that the only use she had ever seen (at that time) for
> the corn, was for pig food.
Yes, that was the common belief in Germany and other surrounding countries.
I remember that from my childhood. I think that there was no knowledge of
the different types of corn.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://i.am/skitt/
Wayward in Hayward
Padraig Breathnach
>
>"picaresque" <bbr...@mail.shasta.com> wrote in message
>news:8sctfk$qkt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>> I asked the question because I had an aunt from Germany who came to the
>> US in the late 1950's and was somewhat insulted when we served corn on
>> the cob. She said that the only use she had ever seen (at that time) for
>> the corn, was for pig food.
>
>Yes, that was the common belief in Germany and other surrounding countries.
>I remember that from my childhood. I think that there was no knowledge of
>the different types of corn.
The earliest imports of Indian corn to Ireland, I am given to understand,
were during the famine in the latter part of the 1840s. The mills here were
not suited to grinding it and, in any case, there were insufficient mills.
The corn was normally cooked as a gruel which did horrendous damage to the
intestines of the starving.
Even in relatively recent times "yella male" was scorned in Ireland.
PB
Alex Chernavsky
> The corn was normally cooked as a gruel which did
> horrendous damage to the intestines of the starving.
Somehow, that seems unlikely. Why would eating corn harm a person's
intestines? At worst, the corn would pass through the person undigested (or
partially digested), or it would be vomited.
====Begin quote====
Peel ordered £100,000. to be spent on Indian corn, to be purchased in the
U.S. and shipped to Ireland. This proved a decisive factor in staving off
starvation for many...
http://goireland.about.com/travel/goireland/library/weekly/aa120897.htm
====End quote====
Incidentally, this reminds me of an urban legend related to throwing rice at
weddings. According to a fairly recent, erroneous rumor, birds eat the
uncooked rice and then die when it expands inside the birds, rupturing their
digestive tracts.
http://www.snopes.com/weddings/horrors/birdrice.htm
--
Alex Chernavsky
al...@astrocyte-design.com
R. Fontana
> Incidentally, this reminds me of an urban legend related to throwing rice at
> weddings. According to a fairly recent, erroneous rumor, birds eat the
> uncooked rice and then die when it expands inside the birds, rupturing their
> digestive tracts.
This was treated seriously by _The New York Times_ several years ago.
--
Richard
Perchprism
>From: "R. Fontana" rf...@is9.nyu.edu
>Date: 10/15/00 6:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <Pine.SOL.4.21.00101...@is9.nyu.edu>
Be that as it may, it's bad for birds to get starch when it's cold out. You
shouldn't put out crumbs for birds because they'll stuff themselves with that
and miss out on the fatty foods they need to keep warm. The same goes for white
rice. Bird seed has oil in it.
Skitt
"Perchprism" <perch...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001015185400...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
>
> Be that as it may, it's bad for birds to get starch when it's cold out.
You
> shouldn't put out crumbs for birds because they'll stuff themselves with
that
> and miss out on the fatty foods they need to keep warm. The same goes for
white
> rice. Bird seed has oil in it.
If only the birds had money to buy it.
Alex Chernavsky
>You shouldn't put out crumbs for birds because they'll
>stuff themselves with that and miss out on the fatty foods
>they need to keep warm.
My grandmother used to mix up bread crumbs with oil or fat that had been
left over from cooking. The birds seemed to like it. Probably raised their
cholesterol levels, though.
--
Alex Chernavsky
al...@astrocyte-design.com
Perchprism
>From: "Skitt" sk...@earthlink.net
>Date: 10/15/00 7:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <YHqG5.401$Ii.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
>
>
>"Perchprism" <perch...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20001015185400...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
>
>>
>> Be that as it may, it's bad for birds to get starch when it's cold out.
>> shouldn't put out crumbs for birds because they'll stuff themselves with
>that
>white
>> rice. Bird seed has oil in it.
>
>If only the birds had money to buy it.
They can always taunt a coyote and then eat around the steel shot.
Padraig Breathnach
>Padraig Breathnach wrote, in part:
>
>> The corn was normally cooked as a gruel which did
>> horrendous damage to the intestines of the starving.
>
>Somehow, that seems unlikely. Why would eating corn harm a person's
>intestines? At worst, the corn would pass through the person undigested
(or
>partially digested), or it would be vomited.
>
was it almost indigestible, but it was sharp enough to pierce the
intestines.
>====Begin quote====
>
>Peel ordered £100,000. to be spent on Indian corn, to be purchased in the
>U.S. and shipped to Ireland. This proved a decisive factor in staving off
>starvation for many...
>
>http://goireland.about.com/travel/goireland/library/weekly/aa120897.htm
>
>====End quote====
>
I do not dispute this. There are many myths concerning the Irish Famine, and
it is still a sensitive topic both among the Irish in Ireland and the
descendants of those who made it to America in their flight from the hunger.
One was that the British government did nothing to alleviate the problem.
The truth seems to me to be that they did quite a lot but the scale of the
disaster was not fully appreciated in Westminster.
PB
Rob Bannister
Charles Riggs wrote:
> On 14 Oct 2000 06:46:53 GMT, cco...@u.washington.edu (Chris Conner)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <odsfus4s2u1p41m3b...@4ax.com>,
> >Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
> >
> >>1. Why isn't there a name for a female bartender, such as "barman"
> >>when male? "Barwoman" doesn't seem to work.
> >
> > Barmaid.
>
> I used that word once here in AUE and was chastised for it. I
> subsequently tried it out on a female bartender I know and was
> chastised again. Apparently, it sounds demeaning to some.
I read recently in de.etc.sprache.de that it is currently pc to ask for
"Frau Oberin" or even "Frau Ober" - I guess I'll be in trouble if I get
to Germany again if my ingrained "Fräulein" slips out. OTOH, 'barmaid'
still seems to be the normal expression in Britain and Australia, but not
as a form of address.
-- Rob Bannister
Perth, Western Australia.
Peter Moylan
>Simon R. Hughes wrote:
>>Thus Spake Charles Riggs:
>>
>>> when male? "Barwoman" doesn't seem to work.
>>
>
>
I've known a few wenches who could tighten my nuts.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au
Charles Riggs
<ste...@stenches.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>You'll know the importance of freshness in cobs.
Yes. I've cooked them within minutes of being picked and they're
wonderful.
>No point in buying them
>much more than 24 hours off the plant. Little chance of that in
>supermarkets.
Still, that doesn't stop supermarkets from selling them older than
that and from people buying them. They take slightly longer to cook
(five minutes instead of three, perhaps) but can still be quite good.
If some water comes out of a kernel when you prick it with a
fingernail, the cob is still fit to eat. It's best if you don't let
the store manager see you when performing this experiment.
>There was some on the market yesterday that tempted me,
>but I was going out to lunch yesterday, so I resisted. It was five cobs
>for £1 if that gives an idea of the price.
Even taking into consideration the value of your presently inflated
pound, that is very much cheaper than the typical price here. I
believe there were 69P Irish each, the last time I saw any.
>As to artichokes, if a few UK farmers grew them they'd be cheaper. I
>don't think I've ever seen them on a market stall outside London.
I don't know if the climate in any part of the UK would be suitable.
In America, they grow best around San Francisco; the ones we get here
were usually grown in Israel. I can get them in Westport sometimes but
that's usually because I've asked the man to bring some in from a
Dublin outlet.
Charles Riggs
Peter Moylan
>You'll know the importance of freshness in cobs. No point in buying them
>much more than 24 hours off the plant. Little chance of that in
>supermarkets.
Shop-bought corn is OK in the sort of dish that has the right level of
moistness. I use corn in some oven-cooked casseroles, and also in
things like the stir-fry chicken to which I add the sauce ingredients
in the latter half of the cooking.
My big problem with corn is getting it to fall on the chopping board
while I'm cutting it off the cob. How do others avoid having it
fly all over the kitchen?
Please don't suggest pre-cut corn. Once the leaves are removed,
there's little time left before it's suitable only for the pigs. If you go
one step further and take it off the cob more than a few minutes
before using it, not even the pigs will touch it.
As for canned or frozen corn, the less said the better.
Brian J Goggin
<chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>Still, that doesn't stop supermarkets from selling them older than
>that and from people buying them. They take slightly longer to cook
>(five minutes instead of three, perhaps) but can still be quite good.
>If some water comes out of a kernel when you prick it with a
>fingernail, the cob is still fit to eat. It's best if you don't let
>the store manager see you when performing this experiment.
If you have a bit of garden space, you might be able to grow some corn
yourself. We usually grow a few (well, six plants) each year and eat
straight after picking. They never get very big, but they do taste
good. They seem to stand the Limerick rain, so they might grow in Mayo
too.
Do any of those listed at
http://www.theorganiccentre.ie/orgprodguide.html
supply corn or artichokes?
bjg
David McMurray
Olivers <ol...@calpha.com> wrote:
[...]
> Canadian whiskeys are blends.
Canadian whiskey is "whisky"; the plural is "whiskies".
--
David
Stephen Toogood
<chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> writes
>
>Still, that doesn't stop supermarkets from selling them older than
>that and from people buying them. They take slightly longer to cook
>(five minutes instead of three, perhaps) but can still be quite good.
>If some water comes out of a kernel when you prick it with a
>fingernail, the cob is still fit to eat. It's best if you don't let
>the store manager see you when performing this experiment.
>
cooks was making some confection or other with the stuff. He told his
viewers to avoid the woody bits by snapping them off then and there in
the supermarket as they filled their bag. Just buy the juicy bits.
I don't know how daring the customers started to be, but I'm all in
favour of a bit of militant consumerism at the expense of Mr. Tesco and
his mates. Mind you, I don't think I've ever bought asparagus from a
supermarket, and in any case the woody bits make excellent soup.
--
Stephen Toogood
picaresque
chr...@gofree.indigo.ie wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:06:24 +0100, Stephen Toogood
> <ste...@stenches.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
snipped
>
> >There was some on the market yesterday that tempted me,
> >but I was going out to lunch yesterday, so I resisted. It was five
cobs
> >for £1 if that gives an idea of the price.
>
> Even taking into consideration the value of your presently inflated
> pound, that is very much cheaper than the typical price here. I
> believe there were 69P Irish each, the last time I saw any.
Corn is usually 6 or 10 to the dollar during the height of the season
here.
> >As to artichokes, if a few UK farmers grew them they'd be cheaper. I
> >don't think I've ever seen them on a market stall outside London.
>
> I don't know if the climate in any part of the UK would be suitable.
> In America, they grow best around San Francisco; the ones we get here
> were usually grown in Israel. I can get them in Westport sometimes but
> that's usually because I've asked the man to bring some in from a
> Dublin outlet.
>
> Charles Riggs
>
They grow artichokes in the Salinas area which is near Montery, quite a
bit south of SF but close enough. They like the early morning fog and
warm afternoons and no freezing temperatures, so I imagine that there
could be some areas where they could be succesfully grown. If you let
the artichokes mature,they are attractive thistle flowers and can be
dried for arrangements.
I love artichokes but have always wondered just how desperate for
something to eat the first person to try to eat one must have been.
--
picaresque
Murray Arnow
> I love artichokes but have always wondered just how desperate for
> something to eat the first person to try to eat one must have been.
He was undoubtedly less desperate than the first person to eat a raw
oyster.
Skitt
> >
> They grow artichokes in the Salinas area which is near Montery, quite a
> bit south of SF but close enough. They like the early morning fog and
> warm afternoons and no freezing temperatures, so I imagine that there
> could be some areas where they could be succesfully grown. If you let
> the artichokes mature,they are attractive thistle flowers and can be
> dried for arrangements.
>
> I love artichokes but have always wondered just how desperate for
> something to eat the first person to try to eat one must have been.
Castroville, in the area you mention, is "The Artichoke Capital of the
World".
And yes, I too love artichokes.
Alex Chernavsky
>Castroville, in the area you mention, is "The
>Artichoke Capital of the World".
Anybody who lives in that area should check out the annual Gilroy Garlic
Festival. There's a beauty contest to pick a Garlic Queen, there's
garlic-flavored ice cream and chocolate, there's lots of beer... A good
time is guaranteed to be had by all.
http://www.gilroygarlicfestival.com/
--
Alex Chernavsky
al...@astrocyte-design.com
N.Mitchum
------
> My big problem with corn is getting it to fall on the chopping board
> while I'm cutting it off the cob. How do others avoid having it
> fly all over the kitchen?
Delighted to see we've stayed on-topic here.
Several solutions: Break corn in half and work with smaller, more
easily handled pieces. Use small knife. Get one of those gadgets
that fit round the ear like a collar and shave off the kernels.
Assign the task to your wife or children, then leave the kitchen.
----NM
Geoff Butler
>
>No, the very best of whiskies, the Scotch single malts,
>are by definition not blends.
Strictly speaking, not quite. Most single malts are blended from
different barrels, and sometimes from different years, of the same
malt. You can buy single-barrel malts, but they tend to be very[1]
expensive, probably because a barrel that's drinkable without
blending is rare indeed.
>My personal favourites are Lagavulin and Laphroaig.
I'm very pleased to hear it.
[1] Very.
-ler
Charles Riggs
<b...@wordwrights.ie> wrote:
>If you have a bit of garden space, you might be able to grow some corn
>yourself. We usually grow a few (well, six plants) each year and eat
>straight after picking. They never get very big, but they do taste
>good. They seem to stand the Limerick rain, so they might grow in Mayo
>too.
I'd love to try it but I'm afraid it will have to wait until I have my
dream house in Dalkey; I'm presently only renting a house and Mel
doesn't appreciate us digging up his grounds.
>Do any of those listed at
>
>http://www.theorganiccentre.ie/orgprodguide.html
>
>supply corn or artichokes?
I don't know but a couple of the shops listed are nearby and I may
well check them out. Thanks for listing the name of the site --
interesting.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<ste...@stenches.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Back in May/June, at the height of the asparagus season, one of the TV
>cooks was making some confection or other with the stuff. He told his
>viewers to avoid the woody bits by snapping them off then and there in
>the supermarket as they filled their bag. Just buy the juicy bits.
I've never seen asparagus sold here with the woody bits, but at the
prices they charge they'd need to have brass balls to do so.
>I don't know how daring the customers started to be, but I'm all in
>favour of a bit of militant consumerism at the expense of Mr. Tesco and
>his mates. Mind you, I don't think I've ever bought asparagus from a
>supermarket, and in any case the woody bits make excellent soup.
I got militant in the States a few or more times when Mr. Safeway sold
broccoli with stems six inches long. I'd cut them off before bagging
and weighing them and I didn't feel guilty doing it.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>In article <5dvkusc4emn8vk6qc...@4ax.com>,
> chr...@gofree.indigo.ie wrote:
>> Even taking into consideration the value of your presently inflated
>> pound, that is very much cheaper than the typical price here. I
>> believe there were 69P Irish each, the last time I saw any.
>
>Corn is usually 6 or 10 to the dollar during the height of the season
>here.
Six would cost more like 4.70 dollars in Ireland at the present
exchange rate. You can guess why not much corn on the cob is consumed
here.
>I love artichokes but have always wondered just how desperate for
>something to eat the first person to try to eat one must have been.
How about the first person who ate a lobster? I love both but neither
is very appealing-looking from the outside.
Charles Riggs
Brian J Goggin
<chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>I'd love to try it but I'm afraid it will have to wait until I have my
>dream house in Dalkey; [...]
Keep buying the lottery tickets ....
bjg
D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff
picaresque <bbr...@mail.shasta.com> wrote:
>In article <39E721FB...@calpha.com>,
> Olivers <ol...@calpha.com> wrote:
>> Charles Riggs wrote:
>> >
>>
>> > >It's whisky if it's made in Scotland or Canada (rye), and whiskey
>if
>> > >it's made in Ireland or USAmerica (bourbon).
>> >
>> > Bourbon is not the same as whiskey. Whiskey is a blend. Old Granddad
>> > and Wild Turkey are not whiskeys.
>>
>> You are a foolish man who knoweth not of what he speaks.
>>
>> Bourbon is a whiskey made from at least 51% corn mash (and in most
>> better whiskies is "all corn"). The name came from the high incidence
>> of whiskey distilling in Bourbon County, Kaintuck, but may now be
>> applied generically within the state. Tennessee distillers (such as
>> Jack Daniels, et al) do not call their product "Bourbon". Presumably,
>> were a distiller to offer a mix of several Bourbons, it could be
>called
>> "Blended Bourbon" but I've never seen one, and Bourbons,
>
>I had always thought that the main difference between "new world"
>whiskey and "old world" was the make-up of the mash. In Kentucy and
>others the mash is corn/maize while in Europe corn does not equal maize.
>Barleycorn and other grains are used (I think). Corn as it is known in
>the Americas was completly unknown to the European distillers, until
>recently.
>
>Is corn/maize ever served in Europe as it is in the U.S. Corn on the
>cob?
[snip]
Rarely, and even more rarely is it worth eating. In Germany, it tends to
be boiled to mush.
I still remember too well the frightful dinner I had in a "Western Bar" in
Berlin. It was like going to the alternate dimension where der Westen
wurde gewonnen. Everything was just a bit wrong. The corn was mushy.
The pork ribs were served *without sauce*. And the chili was free of
chili powder. Not that it wasn't hot--they must've dumped in a whole can
of black pepper. What, the chef was out of paprika?
And the square dancers were grimly mechanical. If I hadn't been sur-
rounded by fat gay guys in denim, it would've been one of my less suc-
cessful outings.
--
Daniel "Da" von Brighoff /\ Dilettanten
(de...@midway.uchicago.edu) /__\ erhebt Euch
/____\ gegen die Kunst!
lawrence.aireworth
>>cob?
>[snip]
I buy it at local supermarkets here in Yorkshire for 35-55p per cob.
I put a cob on a soup plate a good splash of water and cover with a
smaller bowl. A good 5-10min "Zonk" in the microwave and voila!
Serve with lashings of butter (and black pepper) and a very large napkin
to keep your front clean :*)
>Rarely, and even more rarely is it worth eating. In Germany, it tends to
>be boiled to mush.
Sounds more like sauerkraut.
>And the square dancers were grimly mechanical. If I hadn't been sur-
>rounded by fat gay guys in denim, it would've been one of my less suc-
>cessful outings.
Are you sure you didn't get the cabaret confused with the audience?
Regards
--
Lawrence
Coby (Jacob) Lubliner
D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff <de...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>In article <8sa0ad$op5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>picaresque <bbr...@mail.shasta.com> wrote:
>>cob?
>[snip]
>
>be boiled to mush.
Germany is far from being "Europe". In Mediterranean Europe, from
Spain to Turkey, grilled corn on the cob is common and delicious.
Coby
Olivers
>
> Alex Chernavsky wrote in message ...
> >Padraig Breathnach wrote, in part:
> >
> >> The corn was normally cooked as a gruel which did
> >> horrendous damage to the intestines of the starving.
> >
> >Somehow, that seems unlikely. Why would eating corn harm a person's
> >intestines? At worst, the corn would pass through the person undigested
> (or
> >partially digested), or it would be vomited.
> >
> According to Cecil Woodham-Smith in "The Great Hunger" (p. 135), not only
> was it almost indigestible, but it was sharp enough to pierce the
> intestines.
>
feed corn, neither knew or were informed as to its preparation, and
while tales of intestine piercing are suspect, undercooked dried corn is
neither digestible or nourishing.
Among Mexicans and US Southerners, folks for whom corn cuisines are well
developed, a variety of "treatments" turn the inedible into the
satisfying. Certainly, the adoption of Indian corn by Rumanians and
many Italians as a cheaper, easier to grow replacement for local grains,
was not accompanied by tails of starvation, but they knew to grind it.
Theodore Heise
Stephen Toogood <ste...@stenches.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Most of the maize grown in the UK is destined for cattle; it's high-
> yield, low-flavour stuff that can at least be induced to ripen in a
> miserable summer such as this year's.
> You'll know the importance of freshness in cobs. No point in buying them
> much more than 24 hours off the plant.
Do most readers here know the difference between field corn and sweet
corn? Field corn is grown from strains that have been selected for
suitability as livestock feed. This type of corn will rarely be
sweet or tender, even if you were to eat it right off the stalk. I
believe this corn is also used to make corn meal and masa harina.
Sweet corn, on the other hand, is generally tender and sweet (aptly
enough). Modern varieties keep their character surprisingly well,
and often survive the journey from field to grocery store to table
quite nicely.
Ted
--
Theodore W. Heise <the...@netins.net> West Lafayette, IN, USA
PGP fingerprint = 5B C5 B4 54 3C 30 E3 2C A2 FA 81 1C 39 06 B8 25
Skitt
"Darrell Fuhriman" <dar...@grumblesmurf.net> wrote in message
news:tshzok3...@pickwick.grumblesmurf.net...
> de...@midway.uchicago.edu (D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff) writes:
>
> > The pork ribs were served *without sauce*. And the chili was
> > free of chili powder. Not that it wasn't hot--they must've
> > dumped in a whole can
>
> world. :) I once went to a mexican restaurant in Germany.
> They'd never heard of hot sauce. I tried to explain it, as there
> doesn't seem to be a german word for it, and they just looked at
> me like I was high.
>
> Ironically, I was hanging-out with a mexican guy at the time
> (although he wasn't at the restaurant). His comment was,
> "What!?!? That's like a German restaurant without beer."
>
> I think I'll be bring a couple bottles along with me next time,
> maybe some green Tabasco, some Cholula, and maybe some Dave's
> Insanity Sauce (just to blow their minds). :)
DEGREES OF SAUCE (at Frankie's Wings & Things in Florida):
1. Mild
2. Medium
3. Regular
4. Extra Hot
5. Ridiculous
6. Call the Fire Dept.
7. Call the Medics
8. Call Frankie
9. Call 911
Jerry Friedman
"Lawrence.aireworth" <Lawr...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
> >>Is corn/maize ever served in Europe as it is in the U.S. Corn on
the
> >>cob?
> >[snip]
>
> I put a cob on a soup plate a good splash of water and cover with a
> smaller bowl. A good 5-10min "Zonk" in the microwave and voila!
> Serve with lashings of butter (and black pepper) and a very large
napkin
> to keep your front clean :*)
A food thread! Here's another suggestion:
1. Put a large pot of water on to boil.
2. Husk corn cobs and remove silk.
3. When water boils, drop cobs in (gently).
4. Cook until thoroughly heated (a few minutes). Some people like to
wait till the kernels deepen in color. It still doesn't take long.
5. Serve (with butter, salt, and pepper if desired).
--
Jerry Friedman
jfrE...@nnm.cc.nm.us
i before e
and all the disclaimers
Padraig Breathnach
>Padraig Breathnach wrote:
>>
>> Alex Chernavsky wrote in message ...
>> >Padraig Breathnach wrote, in part:
>> >
>> >> The corn was normally cooked as a gruel which did
>> >> horrendous damage to the intestines of the starving.
>> >
>> >Somehow, that seems unlikely. Why would eating corn harm a person's
>> >intestines? At worst, the corn would pass through the person undigested
>> (or
>> >partially digested), or it would be vomited.
>> >
>> According to Cecil Woodham-Smith in "The Great Hunger" (p. 135), not only
>> was it almost indigestible, but it was sharp enough to pierce the
>> intestines.
>>
>feed corn, neither knew or were informed as to its preparation, and
>while tales of intestine piercing are suspect, undercooked dried corn is
>neither digestible or nourishing.
>
communicated or heeded probably can not now be ascertained but, given the
state of Ireland at the time, it might not have been followed.
I have read in more than one place of the damage caused to people's
intestines, but I cannot locate the other source or sources. And it is
probably not a case of one researcher's error being picked up by another --
the historical accounts which I have read were based on the writers' own
researches. Re-tellings are not worth reading when the original research
works are published and easily available.
PB
Olivers
>
>
> A food thread! Here's another suggestion:
Followed by a healthier appraoch
>
> 1. Put a large pot of water on to boil.
Keep the water for the grass. water, at least in legend, toughens corn.
>
> 2. Husk corn cobs and remove silk.
Peel back at tassel, remove silk, replacing the shcucks on the protect
the tender little corns.
>
> 3. When water boils, drop cobs in (gently).
Place on hot gas grill or even in hot oven for a few minutes
>
> 4. Cook until thoroughly heated (a few minutes). Some people like to
> wait till the kernels deepen in color. It still doesn't take long.
The length of time depends on the corn, its variety and its time away
from the stalk. "heated through" serves well for fresh young ears.
>
> 5. Serve (with butter, salt, and pepper if desired).
>
Butter, salt and ground red chiles are the condiments of kings when it
comes to sweet corn
....and then there's grits, by which all life may be measured.
Brian J Goggin
>I suspect that the recipient Erse, used to gentler grains than parched
>feed corn, neither knew or were informed as to its preparation, and
>while tales of intestine piercing are suspect, undercooked dried corn is
>neither digestible or nourishing.
It seems that there were few mills and that many poor folk had no
experience of cooking anything other than potatoes. When preparation
of the stuff was taken over by "soup kitchens", it was served
sometimes with oatmeal and sometimes with rice (two thirds meal, one
third rice).
And why did Peel (Gawd bless 'im) buy Indian meal? Because it wasn't
covered by the Corn Laws.
bjg
D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff
Coby (Jacob) Lubliner <co...@newton.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>In article <AF%G5.119$x3.1967@uchinews>,
>D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff <de...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>In article <8sa0ad$op5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>>>Is corn/maize ever served in Europe as it is in the U.S. Corn on the
>>>cob?
>>[snip]
>>
>>be boiled to mush.
>
>Germany is far from being "Europe". In Mediterranean Europe, from
>Spain to Turkey, grilled corn on the cob is common and delicious.
But "as it is in the US" is boiled rather than grilled or roasted, at
least here in corn country. Roasting corn was something we tended to do
on campouts, where it was too much trouble to get a big ol' pot of water
going. I never liked it as much, since my cob would inevitably end up
half-charred.
Jerry Friedman
Olivers <ol...@calpha.com> wrote:
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > A food thread! Here's another suggestion:
>
> Followed by a healthier appraoch
>
> >
> > 1. Put a large pot of water on to boil.
>
> Keep the water for the grass. water, at least in legend, toughens
corn.
Since I live in the Southwest, the water definitely ends up in the
garden (except what evaporated). I like the flavor and texture of
boiled corn much better than that of roasted, by the way--could all the
roasted corn I've eaten have been overcooked, maybe?
...
> > 4. Cook until thoroughly heated (a few minutes). Some people like
to
> > wait till the kernels deepen in color. It still doesn't take long.
>
> The length of time depends on the corn, its variety and its time away
> from the stalk. "heated through" serves well for fresh young ears.
Why would you get any other kind of ears? (Same reason I would--that's
all that's available.)
> > 5. Serve (with butter, salt, and pepper if desired).
> >
> Butter, salt and ground red chiles are the condiments of kings when it
> comes to sweet corn
I know someone who recommends rubbing corn on the cob with umeboshi.
Not very American, but he likes it.
> ....and then there's grits, by which all life may be measured.
Thus: "How's life?"
"Grits." (I'm surviving.)
"Plain posole." (Not bad.)
"Posole with pork and red chile." (Quite good, thanks.)
"Pavo en mole poblano con tamales ciegos." (Superb!)
Olivers
>
>
> Thus: "How's life?"
>
> "Grits." (I'm surviving.)
>
> "Plain posole." (Not bad.)
>
> "Posole with pork and red chile." (Quite good, thanks.)
especially when served with sliced limon, chopped onions, diced raw
jalapeno and cilantro (and some folks even add avocado slices)
>
> "Pavo en mole poblano con tamales ciegos." (Superb!)
>
"Herradura Blanco o Sauza Hornitos on Saturday night, Menudo (para la
cruda) on Sunday Morning"
(About as good as it gets!)
Harlan Messinger
"Jerry Friedman" <jfried...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8skgp9$vsc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> "Pavo en mole poblano con tamales ciegos." (Superb!)
>