The King's Stamp

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Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 14, 2023, 4:23:06 PMMar 14
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The design for CIIIR's first group of postage stamps has been
released. The format is the same that was used for EIIR's
for more than 50 years (the "Machin" design), and the first four
values will be in the same colors (colours) as the ones they
are superseding. (However, stocks of the old ones will not be
destroyed; they will continue to be sold until the supplies are
exhausted., and the new ones will be supplied as needed.)

Mr. Machin is no longer with us, and someone has imitated
the style -- again, it was prepared first for coins and then
adapted for stamps.

Two things: again, HRH faces left; whereas I understood
that traditionally, on coins at least, the direction of the
portrait changes from reign to reign;

and, while His Majesty is said to have approved the
design, it seems rather jowly, and could do with a bit
of airbrushing. (A US stamp depicting George Washington
was redrawn for just that reason -- it was considered
unflattering.)

Has there been public reaction to the unveiling?

(My thread header recalls the name of a short film
that Benjamin Britten scored when for his first job
he worked for a government agency that produced
educational films. This one showed the preparation
of a new design for, probably, GVR (possibly GVIR)
-- he turned 23 near the end of the Year of Three Kings.)

Lionel Edwards

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Mar 14, 2023, 5:51:46 PMMar 14
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Benjamin Britten, HRH and "jowly" all in the same posting?

Properly highbrow Peter and much appreciated. I tracked
the BB down on YouTube and found it had accumulated
zero likes. I gave it one but couldn't listen to it :(

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 14, 2023, 9:34:45 PMMar 14
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Oh, wow. Many years ago the Book of the Month Club(!) sold
me a VHS with "four" of "those" BB movies -- "Night Train,"
"Coal Face" (those two are legit), plus Malcolm Sargent
conducting and narrating the Young People's Guide (probably
made in conjunction with the first performance) -- and a short
ballet by ... Arthur Benjamin!

I shall hunt it down directly.

BB's biographers unanimously credit those "apprentice" years
of scoring those movies on zero budget with stimulating his
ingenuity and imagination. They draw a direct line to the "slung
mugs" of "Noyes Fludde."

But what do you think of the new King's stamp?

Hibou

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Mar 15, 2023, 2:29:01 AMMar 15
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Le 14/03/2023 à 20:23, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>
> [...] while His Majesty is said to have approved the
> design, it seems rather jowly, and could do with a bit
> of airbrushing. (A US stamp depicting George Washington
> was redrawn for just that reason -- it was considered
> unflattering.) [...]

If I suggested that that was an instance of the difference between
Americans and Britons, would that be unfair (and if so, to whom)?

> Has there been public reaction to the unveiling? [...]

None at all that I know of. The further rise in the price of stamps (to
£1.10 for first class) is much more likely to provoke a reaction. It
can't be that this monarch is worth more than the previous one.

And then there's the barcoding.... Apparently this means people who
receive letters will be able to watch little Shaun the Sheep videos.

What times we live in!

Ross Clark

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Mar 15, 2023, 6:38:50 AMMar 15
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It was for GVR's Silver Jubilee (1935).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King%27s_Stamp
The whole film (19:27) is online at "dailymotion".


J. J. Lodder

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Mar 15, 2023, 6:48:38 AMMar 15
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It is getting worse. No more stamps at all here.
You buy a code on-line, and write it on the envelope.
(in a 3x3 square pattern) A machine reads it.

For packets ordering on-line gets you a Q-reader code.
The human who takes in the package scans it,
and prints the label for you. No printer needed.

Jan
(hasn't seen a real stamp in years)



Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 15, 2023, 9:17:24 AMMar 15
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On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:29:01 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> Le 14/03/2023 à 20:23, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :

> > [...] while His Majesty is said to have approved the
> > design, it seems rather jowly, and could do with a bit
> > of airbrushing. (A US stamp depicting George Washington
> > was redrawn for just that reason -- it was considered
> > unflattering.) [...]
>
> If I suggested that that was an instance of the difference between
> Americans and Britons, would that be unfair (and if so, to whom)?

? Brits like looking at unflattering portraits? (Is Basquiat even
more popular Over There? (I suppose you did give the world
Bacon, whereas Hockney came Over Here.)

> > Has there been public reaction to the unveiling? [...]
>
> None at all that I know of. The further rise in the price of stamps (to
> £1.10 for first class) is much more likely to provoke a reaction. It
> can't be that this monarch is worth more than the previous one.

We don't do subclasses. First class (ordinary letter rate) just went to 63c.

> And then there's the barcoding.... Apparently this means people who
> receive letters will be able to watch little Shaun the Sheep videos.

They squeezed that in while I was out of philately, and I haven't seen
an explanation. Our stamps have been "phosphor-tagged" for decades,
with machine-readable patterns, not human-visible, to check that the
correct amount was prepaid.

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 15, 2023, 9:17:44 AMMar 15
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I couldn't find it at YouTube. What and where is "dailymotion"?

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 15, 2023, 9:20:49 AMMar 15
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> (hasn't seen a real stamp in years)

If that were strictly true, your government would have been
giving up a significant source of revenue. Every stamp that
is purchased and not used represents net profit.

J. J. Lodder

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Mar 15, 2023, 10:39:38 AMMar 15
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Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
We don't live in a communist dictatorship, like you.
It was all privatised long ago,
and the state is merely a shareholder,

Jan

Janet

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Mar 15, 2023, 12:03:36 PMMar 15
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In article <6084ad7c-6769-41af-bb97-
f486d1...@googlegroups.com>, gram...@verizon.net
says...
>
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:29:01 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> > Le 14/03/2023 à 20:23, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>
> > > [...] while His Majesty is said to have approved the
> > > design, it seems rather jowly, and could do with a bit
> > > of airbrushing. (A US stamp depicting George Washington
> > > was redrawn for just that reason -- it was considered
> > > unflattering.) [...]
> >
> > If I suggested that that was an instance of the difference between
> > Americans and Britons, would that be unfair (and if so, to whom)?
>
> ? Brits like looking at unflattering portraits?

IRL, he is a wrinkly jowly old man with his own teeth
and going bald. We know what Charles looks like, so it
would be very odd if the stamps didn't.

If he was American he'd have dyed hair implants, an
enormous grill of brilliant white porcelain teeth,
facelifts, botox, and a really terrible tailor.

If you want pretty, here's the new KC floral stamps

https://tinyurl.com/3ns5tz6h

Janet


bruce bowser

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Mar 15, 2023, 12:56:00 PMMar 15
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On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 9:17:24 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:29:01 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> > Le 14/03/2023 à 20:23, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>
> > > [...] while His Majesty is said to have approved the
> > > design, it seems rather jowly, and could do with a bit
> > > of airbrushing. (A US stamp depicting George Washington
> > > was redrawn for just that reason -- it was considered
> > > unflattering.) [...]
> >
> > If I suggested that that was an instance of the difference between
> > Americans and Britons, would that be unfair (and if so, to whom)?
> ? Brits like looking at unflattering portraits?

Like having a painting of a tree in the office? That's really something to look at.

bruce bowser

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Mar 15, 2023, 1:02:49 PMMar 15
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No, JJ. That is not the definition of a 'western democracy'. [Nee, JJ. Dat is niet de definitie van een 'westerse democratie'].

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 15, 2023, 3:27:02 PMMar 15
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The Post Office Department -- one of the few in Washington's
Cabinet -- was turned into the independent (but closely regulated)
United States Postal Service way back in 1971.

What's your next anti-American slur?

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 15, 2023, 3:34:35 PMMar 15
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Is there something wrong with looking decent?

> If you want pretty, here's the new KC floral stamps
>
> https://tinyurl.com/3ns5tz6h

Not exactly artistic masterpieces ... but he's facing right!

A while back we had a pane of 50 different stamps, each
depicting a State Flower. Another one showed the State
Birds. Those were both very well done. There was also
one for the State Flags. (I know that you-lot would find
that offensive, but you're quick to display your armorial
bearings.)

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 15, 2023, 4:15:57 PMMar 15
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Which leads to a link that will show it to members of the BFI.

> > The whole film (19:27) is online at "dailymotion".
>
> I couldn't find it at YouTube. What and where is "dailymotion"?

By which I mean, I googled < "The King's Stamp" > and chose
Videos, and got lots of stuff about the new one. So I tried
< "The King's Stamp" Britten > and the closest I got was some
paragraphs about his film scoring in general, plus someone has
put on YouTube the album (of course I have the CD) that presents
suites of music from some of the films. (Also a review of a 2013
centennial box of 65 CDs comprising "the complete Britten," a
limited edition, which the review points out isn't, even though
they licensed from other companies dozens of tracks of things
that Decca hadn't gotten around to yet.)

Ross Clark

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Mar 15, 2023, 7:48:13 PMMar 15
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On 16/03/2023 9:15 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 9:17:44 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 6:38:50 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
>>> On 15/03/2023 9:23 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>>> (My thread header recalls the name of a short film
>>>> that Benjamin Britten scored when for his first job
>>>> he worked for a government agency that produced
>>>> educational films. This one showed the preparation
>>>> of a new design for, probably, GVR (possibly GVIR)
>>>> -- he turned 23 near the end of the Year of Three Kings.)
>>> It was for GVR's Silver Jubilee (1935).
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King%27s_Stamp
>
> Which leads to a link that will show it to members of the BFI.
>
>>> The whole film (19:27) is online at "dailymotion".
>>
>> I couldn't find it at YouTube. What and where is "dailymotion"?

Read all about it at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dailymotion

"The King's Stamp" at

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21r04k

Peter Moylan

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Mar 15, 2023, 7:53:54 PMMar 15
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Google knows.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Sam Plusnet

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Mar 15, 2023, 10:14:52 PMMar 15
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On 15-Mar-23 23:53, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 16/03/23 00:17, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 6:38:50 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
>
>>> It was for GVR's Silver Jubilee (1935).
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King%27s_Stamp
>>> The whole film (19:27) is online at "dailymotion".
>>
>> I couldn't find it at YouTube. What and where is "dailymotion"?
>
> Google knows.

Yes, but D@mn it!
How on earth can you get Google to divulge these secrets?

--
Sam Plusnet

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 16, 2023, 10:47:07 AMMar 16
to
Not, it turns out, by asking it.

If Ross had divulged how he found the "dailymotion" occurrence,
that would have been useful

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 16, 2023, 11:16:18 AMMar 16
to
It proves, thanks to Ross's url, to be by far his most conventional
film score -- piano (presumably played by himself), flute, oboe,
clarinet, and (briefly) percussion. I don't thin k he reused any of it
in a concert work, but maybe in the rarely performed piano suite.

The movie itself has points of interest -- a comic scene, and
even some color footage! Interesting that it reveals nothing of
how the King's head was inserted into the design.

occam

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Mar 16, 2023, 11:31:05 AMMar 16
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...that buying a $1 booklet of stamps from a vending machine in
California in 1982 gave me 87 cents worth of stamps? That is tantamount
to institutionalised highway robbery, if you come from a European country.

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 16, 2023, 11:55:45 AMMar 16
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That's very strange. There happens to be an article in _this month's_
*Scott's Monthly Magazine* (just renamed from *Linn's*) about the
gimmicks that were used in making up booklets, whenever a stamp
wasn't a multiple of 5c, so they could be sold in vending machines,
which in those days couldn't take pennies. They would give you a
certain number of (say) 13c stamps plus something like an (utterly
useless) 9c stamp to make it come out right. Or, of course, a multiple
of five stamps, with a "label" in the space where another stamp would
have gone but made the total value inconvenient for the machine.

I don't think vendors were allowed to charge a premium over the
face value of the stamps, but the few times I used a stamp vending
machine, they were inside the post office, so I can't say.

TonyCooper

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Mar 16, 2023, 12:25:11 PMMar 16
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On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 16:31:00 +0100, occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

>On 15/03/2023 20:26, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
You evidently purchased stamps from a private enterprise; basically, a
re-seller of stamps. The operator of the vending machine is a
for-profit enterprise, and a private enterprise in this country or any
other country is entitled to a profit for providing the convenience of
availability.

The enterprise furnished the dispensing machine at their cost, the
enterprise paid employees to re-stock the contents of the vending
machine, and the enterprise most probably paid a fee to the location
in which the vending machine was placed.

If you purchase a booklet of stamps at a US post office, or online
from the USPO, there is no fee or cost other than the cost of the
stamps.

You didn't say where the vending machine was located. There are
private enterprise locations that offer postal services. Many are
franchised businesses that pack and ship items by postal, UPS, Fedex,
and other means. They are businesses, not government facilities.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 16, 2023, 12:46:24 PMMar 16
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But the USPS didn't make 87c booklets.

Silvano

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Mar 16, 2023, 1:42:20 PMMar 16
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TonyCooper hat am 16.03.2023 um 17:25 geschrieben:
>> ...that buying a $1 booklet of stamps from a vending machine in
>> California in 1982 gave me 87 cents worth of stamps? That is tantamount
>> to institutionalised highway robbery, if you come from a European country.
>
> You evidently purchased stamps from a private enterprise; basically, a
> re-seller of stamps. The operator of the vending machine is a
> for-profit enterprise, and a private enterprise in this country or any
> other country is entitled to a profit for providing the convenience of
> availability.
...
> If you purchase a booklet of stamps at a US post office, or online
> from the USPO, there is no fee or cost other than the cost of the
> stamps.


It may be normal in your country, but not in occam's or mine.

In Italy, in particular, tobacconists sell stamps at face value because
they lose their right to sell cigarettes if they don't. Some souvenir
shops also sell stamps at face value as a customer service to people
buying postcards there. Post offices are not really an option in Italy
for buying stamps, because there are always many people there waiting
for other business (Post bank, registered letters, parcels etc.).

In Germany, the next post office is literally round the corner from my
flat, so I always buy stamps there at face value and know nothing about
their availability elsewhere.

I fully understand occam's rage. BTW, I'm absolutely sure that an online
purchase from the USPO was not an option for occam in 1982. :-)

TonyCooper

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Mar 16, 2023, 2:21:22 PMMar 16
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On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 09:46:21 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
That you should address to occam, not me.

I'm not going to challenge his veracity or memory. A US stamp in 1982
was 20 cents. To buy a booklet that provided 87 cents in stamps would
result in four 20 cent stamps and some combination that resulted in 7
cents in stamps. Seven "Columbus in Sight of Land" 1 cent stamps?
Three "Igor Stravinsky" 2 cent stamps and a "Columbus"?

That doesn't seem probable, but that's his story and I'll accept it.


>> The enterprise furnished the dispensing machine at their cost, the
>> enterprise paid employees to re-stock the contents of the vending
>> machine, and the enterprise most probably paid a fee to the location
>> in which the vending machine was placed.
>>
>> If you purchase a booklet of stamps at a US post office, or online
>> from the USPO, there is no fee or cost other than the cost of the
>> stamps.
>>
>> You didn't say where the vending machine was located. There are
>> private enterprise locations that offer postal services. Many are
>> franchised businesses that pack and ship items by postal, UPS, Fedex,
>> and other means. They are businesses, not government facilities.

TonyCooper

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Mar 16, 2023, 2:40:39 PMMar 16
to
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 18:42:19 +0100, Silvano
<Sil...@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

>TonyCooper hat am 16.03.2023 um 17:25 geschrieben:
>>> ...that buying a $1 booklet of stamps from a vending machine in
>>> California in 1982 gave me 87 cents worth of stamps? That is tantamount
>>> to institutionalised highway robbery, if you come from a European country.
>>
>> You evidently purchased stamps from a private enterprise; basically, a
>> re-seller of stamps. The operator of the vending machine is a
>> for-profit enterprise, and a private enterprise in this country or any
>> other country is entitled to a profit for providing the convenience of
>> availability.
>...
>> If you purchase a booklet of stamps at a US post office, or online
>> from the USPO, there is no fee or cost other than the cost of the
>> stamps.
>
>
>It may be normal in your country, but not in occam's or mine.
>
>I fully understand occam's rage. BTW,

Rage? I didn't leave the US in 1982, but I was in England, Scotland,
Wales, and Ireland in 1984. There were several things we encountered
on that trip that would not be "normal" in the US...none of which I'm
still brooding about.

>I'm absolutely sure that an online
>purchase from the USPO was not an option for occam in 1982. :-)

I just wanted to assure him that should he decide to re-visit the US
that better options are now available.

BTW...I did not say that what he experienced is/was normal in the US.
I've never encountered that, or heard of it. I'm just taking his word
for it that it did happen to him.

TonyCooper

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Mar 16, 2023, 3:11:23 PMMar 16
to
Before someone corrects me...Stamps in 1982 were issued in several
different denominations. The 20 cent stamp was required for a letter
up to one ounce in weight to be delivered to a US destination.

Ross Clark

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Mar 16, 2023, 4:12:54 PMMar 16
to
No secret methods. Googled "The King's Stamp", clicked on "videos". The
first two items that came up were about the present K.S. The third was
Dailymotion.

Silvano

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Mar 16, 2023, 4:43:22 PMMar 16
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TonyCooper hat am 16.03.2023 um 19:40 geschrieben:
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 18:42:19 +0100, Silvano
> <Sil...@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
>
>> TonyCooper hat am 16.03.2023 um 17:25 geschrieben:
>>>> ...that buying a $1 booklet of stamps from a vending machine in
>>>> California in 1982 gave me 87 cents worth of stamps? That is tantamount
>>>> to institutionalised highway robbery, if you come from a European country.
>>>
>>> You evidently purchased stamps from a private enterprise; basically, a
>>> re-seller of stamps. The operator of the vending machine is a
>>> for-profit enterprise, and a private enterprise in this country or any
>>> other country is entitled to a profit for providing the convenience of
>>> availability.
>> ...
>>> If you purchase a booklet of stamps at a US post office, or online
>>> from the USPO, there is no fee or cost other than the cost of the
>>> stamps.
>>
>>
>> It may be normal in your country, but not in occam's or mine.
>>
>> I fully understand occam's rage. BTW,
>
> Rage? I didn't leave the US in 1982, but I was in England, Scotland,
> Wales, and Ireland in 1984. There were several things we encountered
> on that trip that would not be "normal" in the US...none of which I'm
> still brooding about.

You aren't, but occam obviously is. If he weren't still brooding about
it, he wouldn't write as he did over 40 years later, and I still fully
understand him.



>> I'm absolutely sure that an online
>> purchase from the USPO was not an option for occam in 1982. :-)
>
> I just wanted to assure him that should he decide to re-visit the US
> that better options are now available.
>
> BTW...I did not say that what he experienced is/was normal in the US.
> I've never encountered that, or heard of it. I'm just taking his word
> for it that it did happen to him.

Good to know. If you ever go to Italy and want to send postcards, please
avoid carefully the yellow postboxes of private companies and insist
that you get normal Italian stamps. Also, please find out online what's
the current rate for postcards from Italy to the US.

A friend of mine ignored my warnings. Her postcards from last September
through a private company had not yet arrived by Christmas and when they
did arrive in January (slower than bringing them on foot), the postmark
(date stamp, cancellation, or how do you call it in the US?) showed
clearly that they had gone through the independent state of San Marino,
definitely not the fastest way from Rome to Berlin.

Silvano

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Mar 16, 2023, 4:51:25 PMMar 16