Shrewsbury revisited
Mark Barratt
Shropshire, England, had an alternative 'posh' pronunciation and
spelling of 'Shrovesbury'. This was quickly slapped down by
several posters, who maintained that the alternative
pronunciation is 'Shroesbury' (no 'v'), and who professed no
knowledge of an alternative spelling.
I've had little time for aue lately - too busy travelling to job
interviews - but I've been meaning to come back to this, because
the memory of the 'Shrovesbury' spelling was too compelling to
dismiss as a trick of the memory. I did find one person who
agreed with me - a lady who goes by the unlikely name of 'The
Shrew'. The Shrew is now an Oregonian, but she tells me that she
is a Londoner with many happy memories of visits to Shrewsbury
in her youth. She also remembers the 'Shrovesbury'
pronunciation, which she describes as 'country dialect'.
It occurs to me that this might be fruitfully cross-posted to
uk.culture.language.english, but there doesn't seem to be any
way to do that from Remarq. Perhaps somebody would be kind
enough to do so in a response.
Regards to all.
Mark Barratt
mark.b...@philips.com (yes, I got a new job - and I won't
miss Motorola, thank you very much)
Any spelling mistakes can be attributed to this dammed AZERTY
keyboard.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Garry J. Vass
who won last year's Totally Official aue Summer Doldrums Competition in a
heated showdown of iron will and British bulldog spirit.
If anyone can help, please jump in!
Kind regards,
GJV
Mark Barratt <flywrangl...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:0011f280...@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com...
peter
"Mark Barratt" <flywrangl...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:0011f280...@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com...
> Some time ago I mentioned here that the town of Shrewsbury in
> Shropshire, England, had an alternative 'posh' pronunciation and
> spelling of 'Shrovesbury'. This was quickly slapped down by
> several posters, who maintained that the alternative
> pronunciation is 'Shroesbury' (no 'v'), and who professed no
> knowledge of an alternative spelling.
>
> I've had little time for aue lately - too busy travelling to job
> interviews - but I've been meaning to come back to this, because
> the memory of the 'Shrovesbury' spelling was too compelling to
> dismiss as a trick of the memory. I did find one person who
> agreed with me - a lady who goes by the unlikely name of 'The
> Shrew'. The Shrew is now an Oregonian, but she tells me that she
> is a Londoner with many happy memories of visits to Shrewsbury
> in her youth. She also remembers the 'Shrovesbury'
> pronunciation, which she describes as 'country dialect'.
>
> It occurs to me that this might be fruitfully cross-posted to
> uk.culture.language.english, but there doesn't seem to be any
> way to do that from Remarq. Perhaps somebody would be kind
> enough to do so in a response.
>
> Regards to all.
> Mark Barratt
>
it is
Shroesbury with no V.
Peter P
nestor...@my-deja.com
"Garry J. Vass" <g...@totally-official.com> wrote:
> Note to the ukuleles: this is cross-posted to you at the request of
Mark,
> who won last year's Totally Official aue Summer Doldrums Competition
in a
> heated showdown of iron will and British bulldog spirit.
>
> If anyone can help, please jump in!
>
> Kind regards,
> GJV
>
message
> news:0011f280...@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com...
> > Some time ago I mentioned here that the town of Shrewsbury in
> > Shropshire, England, had an alternative 'posh' pronunciation and
> > spelling of 'Shrovesbury'. This was quickly slapped down by
> > several posters, who maintained that the alternative
> > pronunciation is 'Shroesbury' (no 'v'), and who professed no
> > knowledge of an alternative spelling.
> >
> > I've had little time for aue lately - too busy travelling to job
> > interviews - but I've been meaning to come back to this, because
> > the memory of the 'Shrovesbury' spelling was too compelling to
> > dismiss as a trick of the memory. I did find one person who
> > agreed with me - a lady who goes by the unlikely name of 'The
> > Shrew'. The Shrew is now an Oregonian, but she tells me that she
> > is a Londoner with many happy memories of visits to Shrewsbury
> > in her youth. She also remembers the 'Shrovesbury'
> > pronunciation, which she describes as 'country dialect'.
>
dialect" variations of pronunciations of places. Many of these
might have been regarded as "common" or "vulgar" by the Victorian
clergymen who busied themselves with such matters. Recorded versions
of Shrewsbury show some variation too: Scobbesbyrig 1016, Sciropesbeire
1086 (Domesday Book), Salopesberia 1094, Shrobesbury 1327, Schroysbury
1387, Schrevisbery 1461, Shrewsbury 1485. There's your "v" sound if
you want it ! - Neil.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Benjamin Krefetz
> "Mark Barratt" <flywrangl...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:0011f280...@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com...
>> Some time ago I mentioned here that the town of Shrewsbury in
>> Shropshire, England, had an alternative 'posh' pronunciation and
>> spelling of 'Shrovesbury'. This was quickly slapped down by
>> several posters, who maintained that the alternative
>> pronunciation is 'Shroesbury' (no 'v'), and who professed no
>> knowledge of an alternative spelling.
>>
>> I've had little time for aue lately - too busy travelling to job
>> interviews - but I've been meaning to come back to this, because
>> the memory of the 'Shrovesbury' spelling was too compelling to
>> dismiss as a trick of the memory. I did find one person who
>> agreed with me - a lady who goes by the unlikely name of 'The
>> Shrew'. The Shrew is now an Oregonian, but she tells me that she
>> is a Londoner with many happy memories of visits to Shrewsbury
>> in her youth. She also remembers the 'Shrovesbury'
>> pronunciation, which she describes as 'country dialect'.
>>
>> It occurs to me that this might be fruitfully cross-posted to
>> uk.culture.language.english, but there doesn't seem to be any
>> way to do that from Remarq. Perhaps somebody would be kind
>> enough to do so in a response.
>>
>> Regards to all.
>> Mark Barratt
>>
> PP I have a perceptive 95 year old friend in Shrewsbury who maintains that
> it is
> Shroesbury with no V.
You should all come to Shrewsbury, MA, which we Neanderthals from across the
lake in Worcester call /Sruzb@ri/ but which the long-time residents tend to
call /Suzbri/.
Ben
Aaron J. Dinkin
use...@wickenden.demon.co.uk wrote:
> In alt.usage.english Benjamin Krefetz <kre...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
> >You should all come to Shrewsbury, MA, which we Neanderthals from across the
> >lake in Worcester call /Sruzb@ri/ but which the long-time residents tend to
> >call /Suzbri/.
>
> Ah ha! But how do you pronounce Worcester?
I've heard /'wIst@/ claimed; I'm not sure if I've ever heard it used. Most
people I know with New England accents say /'wUst@/; if you're rhotic, it's
/'wUst@r/. There's no /r/ in the first syllable in any dialect.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Rowan Dingle
>You should all come to Shrewsbury, MA, which we Neanderthals from across the
>lake in Worcester call /Sruzb@ri/ but which the long-time residents tend to
>call /Suzbri/.
Ah ha! But how do you pronounce Worcester?
--
Rowan Dingle
Rowan Dingle
>In article <I+EsgwA9...@wickenden.demon.co.uk>,
>use...@wickenden.demon.co.uk wrote:
>I've heard /'wIst@/ claimed; I'm not sure if I've ever heard it used. Most
>people I know with New England accents say /'wUst@/; if you're rhotic, it's
>/'wUst@r/. There's no /r/ in the first syllable in any dialect.
You've prompted me to finally get to grips with ASCII IPA. To my
astonishment, it's not completely terrifying!
/'wIst@/'s a surprise. In England as in New England, most people say
/'wUst@/. I'm still unsure of the meaning of 'rhotic' (not a request for
help: plenty of places to look it up) but I imagine it's how someone
from Edinburgh or Cork might say it.
Here in Shropshire, you'll hear both /'Sruzbri/ and /'SroUzbri/ said by
residents of Shrewsbury. I have a feeling that older people say the
latter and newcomers and the young say the former. Although the latter
is a natural consequence of the name's origins ('Shrove's Burrig'
according to some), it is perceived as snobbish, which is perhaps why
the young don't like it (if indeed they don't). Me? I'm just confused. I
never say the name without pausing for a second, after which I choose
one of the two common pronunciations at random.
I don't remember hearing Mark Barratt's /'SroUvsbri/ but it sounds
plausible.
--
Rowan Dingle
Benjamin Krefetz
>> In alt.usage.english Benjamin Krefetz <kre...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >You should all come to Shrewsbury, MA, which we Neanderthals from across the
>> >lake in Worcester call /Sruzb@ri/ but which the long-time residents tend to
>> >call /Suzbri/.
>>
>> Ah ha! But how do you pronounce Worcester?
> I've heard /'wIst@/ claimed; I'm not sure if I've ever heard it used. Most
> people I know with New England accents say /'wUst@/; if you're rhotic, it's
> /'wUst@r/. There's no /r/ in the first syllable in any dialect.
I fall safely into the /'wUst@r/ camp. What usually gets called /'wIst@/ is
actually has a central vowel in the first syllable which usually gets labelled
as /I/ to contrast it with /U/.
Ben
nestor...@my-deja.com
> Here in Shropshire, you'll hear both /'Sruzbri/ and /'SroUzbri/ said
by
> residents of Shrewsbury. I have a feeling that older people say the
> latter and newcomers and the young say the former. Although the latter
> is a natural consequence of the name's origins ('Shrove's Burrig'
> according to some),
> --
> Rowan Dingle
>
The form recorded in the eleventh century (Scobbesbyrig - see previous
post) is thought to mean something very close to "at the fortified place
in the scrubland". The 'byrig' is a dative form of 'burh' (modern
'borough') apparently, and the 'scrobb' is described as conjectural
which means it might not have existed but it damn well should have done.
Matti Lamprhey
>
> Here in Shropshire, you'll hear both /'Sruzbri/ and /'SroUzbri/ said by
> residents of Shrewsbury. I have a feeling that older people say the
> latter and newcomers and the young say the former. Although the latter
> is a natural consequence of the name's origins ('Shrove's Burrig'
> the young don't like it (if indeed they don't). Me? I'm just confused. I
> never say the name without pausing for a second, after which I choose
> one of the two common pronunciations at random.
>
> I don't remember hearing Mark Barratt's /'SroUvsbri/ but it sounds
> plausible.
A recent trip took me up past Shrewsbury, and I gave a lift to a young lad
at Ludlow who wanted to go there. He was a casual farm worker who had an
appointment with the probation service after being convicted of being drunk
& disorderly in Shrewsbury a while back. Very nice, intelligent chap as it
happened. Anyway, he referred to the town as /'Sruzbri/ and didn't
acknowledge /'SroUzbri/ in any way.
It was a fairly obAUE trip in other ways. I visited "hill hill hill"
Torpenhow as promised and took a couple of photos which I will pass to Garry
in the fullness of time. I also visited a couple of Aged Aunts who were
able to provide further inside evidence on the pronunciation of
Featherstonehaugh and Cholmondeley.
One had some social acquaintance with the current Fetherstonhaugh [sic] who
inhabits Kirkoswald in Cumbria -- he pronounces it "Fetherstunhoff",
apparently. The other's husband used to work as a thatcher for Lord
Cholmondeley of Cholmondeley Castle, Cheshire -- Chumley is the only
possible pronunciation, it seems.
Matti
Aaron J. Dinkin
<kre...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
So it's actually ['wi"st@]?
Rowan Dingle
>The form recorded in the eleventh century (Scobbesbyrig - see previous
>post) is thought to mean something very close to "at the fortified place
>in the scrubland". The 'byrig' is a dative form of 'burh' (modern
>'borough') apparently, and the 'scrobb' is described as conjectural
>which means it might not have existed but it damn well should have done.
If byrig is dative, your suggestion makes a lot more sense than Shrove's
Byrig/Burrig, but it does seem a shame that there wasn't a sinner called
Shrove so miserable he gave his name to an entire town.
I had another look at your earlier post. That 'Salopesberia' spelling is
right out on its own, seemingly too different to be a variation of the
others. A cuckoo in the nest?
--
Rowan Dingle
Rowan Dingle
>A recent trip took me up past Shrewsbury, and I gave a lift to a young lad
>at Ludlow who wanted to go there. He was a casual farm worker who had an
>appointment with the probation service after being convicted of being drunk
>& disorderly in Shrewsbury a while back. Very nice, intelligent chap as it
>happened. Anyway, he referred to the town as /'Sruzbri/ and didn't
>acknowledge /'SroUzbri/ in any way.
Hats off to him for managing to travel 30 miles to get drunk. That takes
organisation or deep pockets hereabouts, because of the drink-drive
laws.
ObAUE: Have you noticed how those who want the alcohol limit lowered
call them 'drunk-drive' laws - 'drunk' rather than 'drink'? Sneaky. The
current limits are the equivalent of about a pint and a half. That's not
drunk. That's not even tipsy. A couple of pre-match sloshes of Listerine
make you squiffier than that. Shame!
ObLudlow: I saw my first Americans in Ludlow a couple of weeks ago,
which means that the weather's lying: summer's nearly here!
[...]
>One had some social acquaintance with the current Fetherstonhaugh [sic] who
>inhabits Kirkoswald in Cumbria -- he pronounces it "Fetherstunhoff",
>apparently.
Oh! What a difference an 'a' makes!
> The other's husband used to work as a thatcher for Lord
>Cholmondeley of Cholmondeley Castle, Cheshire -- Chumley is the only
>possible pronunciation, it seems.
ObSnob: How nice it must be to be Lord Chumley of Chumley. There's a Sir
Someone Plowden of Plowden Hall, Plowden near here. There's ancient for
you!
--
Rowan Dingle
nestor...@my-deja.com
use...@wickenden.demon.co.uk wrote:
> In alt.usage.english nestor...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >The form recorded in the eleventh century (Scobbesbyrig - see
previous
> >post) is thought to mean something very close to "at the fortified
place
> >in the scrubland". The 'byrig' is a dative form of 'burh' (modern
> >'borough')
>
Shrove's
> Byrig/Burrig, but it does seem a shame that there wasn't a sinner
called
> Shrove so miserable he gave his name to an entire town.
>
> I had another look at your earlier post. That 'Salopesberia' spelling
is
> right out on its own, seemingly too different to be a variation of the
> others. A cuckoo in the nest?
> The "salop.." variant is thought to have originated as an Anglo-French
(post-Norman invasion) attempt at the local name. The two versions have
since co-existed and in fact the postal abbreviation for the county of
Shropshire is still often given as "Salop". Former 'customers' of
Shrewsbury's well-known "public" (i.e., private) school are known as Old
Salopians. From visiting the area as a child I seem to remember a bus
company called "Salopian" and no doubt the name is still used by a range
of other businesses. I smiled recently when, while looking at the
football league tables in the local (Bristol) paper, I noticed there was
a team called the Old Fallopians, but this is an irrelevant ( and,
indeed, irreverent) spoof name. At least, I hope it is. - Neil.
Rowan Dingle
>> The "salop.." variant is thought to have originated as an Anglo-French
>(post-Norman invasion) attempt at the local name. The two versions have
>since co-existed and in fact the postal abbreviation for the county of
>Shropshire is still often given as "Salop". Former 'customers' of
>Shrewsbury's well-known "public" (i.e., private) school are known as Old
>Salopians. From visiting the area as a child I seem to remember a bus
>company called "Salopian" and no doubt the name is still used by a range
>of other businesses.
Thanks. I knew the what of 'Salop' but not the why.
I think it might be out of fashion at the moment. I vaguely recall
reading about a retired colonel somewhere in the north of the county who
spends his time campaigning to have it banished from the language.
> I smiled recently when, while looking at the
>football league tables in the local (Bristol) paper, I noticed there was
>a team called the Old Fallopians, but this is an irrelevant ( and,
>indeed, irreverent) spoof name. At least, I hope it is. - Neil.
Menopause United?
--
Rowan Dingle
Benjamin Krefetz
>>
>> >The form recorded in the eleventh century (Scobbesbyrig - see
> previous
>> >post) is thought to mean something very close to "at the fortified
> place
>> >in the scrubland". The 'byrig' is a dative form of 'burh' (modern
>> >'borough')
>>
>> If byrig is dative, your suggestion makes a lot more sense than
> Shrove's
>> Byrig/Burrig, but it does seem a shame that there wasn't a sinner
> called
>> Shrove so miserable he gave his name to an entire town.
>>
>> I had another look at your earlier post. That 'Salopesberia' spelling
> is
>> right out on its own, seemingly too different to be a variation of the
>> others. A cuckoo in the nest?
>> The "salop.." variant is thought to have originated as an Anglo-French
> (post-Norman invasion) attempt at the local name. The two versions have
> since co-existed and in fact the postal abbreviation for the county of
> Shropshire is still often given as "Salop". Former 'customers' of
> Shrewsbury's well-known "public" (i.e., private) school are known as Old
> Salopians. From visiting the area as a child I seem to remember a bus
> company called "Salopian" and no doubt the name is still used by a range
> of other businesses. I smiled recently when, while looking at the
> football league tables in the local (Bristol) paper, I noticed there was
> a team called the Old Fallopians, but this is an irrelevant ( and,
> indeed, irreverent) spoof name. At least, I hope it is. - Neil.
If "Salopesberia" is due to French influence, does that make the translation
Harlotsville?
Ben
Philip Eden
Rowan Dingle wrote in message ...
>Thanks. I knew the what of 'Salop' but not the why.
>
>I think it might be out of fashion at the moment. I vaguely recall
>reading about a retired colonel somewhere in the north of the county who
>spends his time campaigning to have it banished from the language.
>
>Rowan Dingle
After the 1974 local government reorganisation, the official name
of the county was briefly Salop. But we had just entered the Common
Market (as we then called it), and the name caused great
mirth among our French-speaking co-marketeers.
"Salop" is a French expletive, usually directed at a male person,
roughly akin to "bastard" or "bugger", etc.
Embarrassed Salopian county councillors soon changed
the name back to Shropshire.
PhilipE
Eddie Lewis
<kre...@fas.harvard.edu> writes
>So nestor...@my-deja.com was all like:
>> In article <Lo3MVYAz...@wickenden.demon.co.uk>,
>> use...@wickenden.demon.co.uk wrote:
>>> In alt.usage.english nestor...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>
>>> >The form recorded in the eleventh century (Scobbesbyrig - see
>> previous
>
>> (post-Norman invasion) attempt at the local name. The two versions have
>> since co-existed and in fact the postal abbreviation for the county of
>> Shropshire is still often given as "Salop". Former 'customers' of
>> Shrewsbury's well-known "public" (i.e., private) school are known as Old
>> Salopians. From visiting the area as a child I seem to remember a bus
>> company called "Salopian" and no doubt the name is still used by a range
>> of other businesses.
>> football league tables in the local (Bristol) paper, I noticed there was
>> a team called the Old Fallopians, but this is an irrelevant ( and,
>> indeed, irreverent) spoof name. At least, I hope it is. - Neil.
>
>If "Salopesberia" is due to French influence, does that make the translation
>Harlotsville?
on Shrewsbury's womenfolk when they changed the name! (I've heard that
they had difficulty with the English 'r', but they have left the second
one alone). The 'p' makes me suspicious too, as most if not all English
spellings of the time have a 'b' (which the Normans could pronounce
perfectly well- they haven't changed 'beria' to 'peria' have they?)
:-)
>
>Ben
--
Eddie Lewis
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
"Expletive" is as misused as "obscene" and "bizarre" these days,
especially in America and particularly since the Nixonian Watergate
tapes, where so-called expletives were deleted _en masse_.
I studied the Watergate tapes and every instance of "[expletive
deleted]" and found that this phrase was misused then (and still is) to
mean any "offensive word or phrase."
*Expletive* should be limited to mean "an exclamation or oath,
especially one that is profane or obscene." (AHD)
Thus, the French _salop_ meaning "(dirty) bastard," "bugger," "swine,"
"sod" or "son-of-a-bitch" is only an expletive when yelled at or said to
someone (the target of abuse), but it's not an expletive when used in a
sentence such as, _Il est en effet un salop._
BTW, _salop_ and _salopard_ used against males have their counterpart
for female targets: _salope_ ("bitch, slut, tart, whore") which,
interestingly, can also be used against males. E.g., _C'est une vieille
salope ce type._ means "That guy/bloke is a real bastard."
As in other languages, very common first names are also used as insults
in French. "Marie" is part of at least six terms of abuse, one of which
is _Marie-salope_, "slut, tart, whore." (Sorry, Tootsie; I'm only the
messenger.)
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Matti Lamprhey
> Philip Eden wrote:
> > "Salop" is a French expletive, usually directed at a male person,
> > roughly akin to "bastard" or "bugger", etc.
>
> especially in America and particularly since the Nixonian Watergate
> tapes, where so-called expletives were deleted _en masse_.
>
> I studied the Watergate tapes and every instance of "[expletive
> deleted]" and found that this phrase was misused then (and still is) to
> mean any "offensive word or phrase."
>
> *Expletive* should be limited to mean "an exclamation or oath,
> especially one that is profane or obscene." (AHD)
>
> Thus, the French _salop_ meaning "(dirty) bastard," "bugger," "swine,"
> "sod" or "son-of-a-bitch" is only an expletive when yelled at or said to
> someone (the target of abuse), but it's not an expletive when used in a
> sentence such as, _Il est en effet un salop._
>
> BTW, _salop_ and _salopard_ used against males have their counterpart
> for female targets: _salope_ ("bitch, slut, tart, whore") which,
> interestingly, can also be used against males. E.g., _C'est une vieille
> salope ce type._ means "That guy/bloke is a real bastard."
>
> As in other languages, very common first names are also used as insults
> in French. "Marie" is part of at least six terms of abuse, one of which
> is _Marie-salope_, "slut, tart, whore." (Sorry, Tootsie; I'm only the
> messenger.)
Wondering a few weeks ago about the precise meaning of "expletive", I
checked NSOED. The oath/profanity usage is recent (E19), the primary meaning
being "Something introduced merely to make up a required quantity; serving
as a filler."
Do leftpondian dictionaries not give this meaning at all?
Matti
Rowan Dingle
>After the 1974 local government reorganisation, the official name
>of the county was briefly Salop. But we had just entered the Common
>Market (as we then called it), and the name caused great
>mirth among our French-speaking co-marketeers.
>
>"Salop" is a French expletive, usually directed at a male person,
> roughly akin to "bastard" or "bugger", etc.
>
>Embarrassed Salopian county councillors soon changed
>the name back to Shropshire.
That was precociously cosmopolitan of them, to worry about French
sniggers. I didn't think we did back then - 'Fog in Channel, Continent
cut off' and so on.
Shropshire in the vanguard of cultural cringe! Who'd have thought it?
--
Rowan Dingle
Salopard
Richard Fontana
> Wondering a few weeks ago about the precise meaning of "expletive", I
> checked NSOED. The oath/profanity usage is recent (E19), the primary meaning
> being "Something introduced merely to make up a required quantity; serving
> as a filler."
>
> Do leftpondian dictionaries not give this meaning at all?
They do. M-W:
Main Entry: 1ex·ple·tive
Pronunciation: 'ek-spl&-tiv
Function: noun
Date: 1612
1 a : a syllable, word, or phrase inserted to fill a vacancy (as in a
sentence or a metrical line) without adding to the sense; especially : a
word (as it in "make it clear which you prefer") that occupies the
position of the subject or object of a verb in normal English word order
and anticipates a subsequent word or phrase that supplies the needed
meaningful content b : an exclamatory word or phrase; especially : one
that is obscene or profane
2 : one that serves to fill out or as a filling
RF
nestor...@my-deja.com
"Philip Eden" <phi...@weather.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Rowan Dingle wrote in message ...
> >Thanks. I knew the what of 'Salop' but not the why.
> >
> >I think it might be out of fashion at the moment. I vaguely recall
> >reading about a retired colonel somewhere in the north of the county
who
> >spends his time campaigning to have it banished from the language.
> >
> >--
> >Rowan Dingle
>
> of the county was briefly Salop. But we had just entered the Common
> Market (as we then called it), and the name caused great
> mirth among our French-speaking co-marketeers.
>
> "Salop" is a French expletive, usually directed at a male person,
> roughly akin to "bastard" or "bugger", etc.
>
> Embarrassed Salopian county councillors soon changed
> the name back to Shropshire.
>
Somerset. As their coach drove down the main street (it wasn't
pedestrianised then) every shop window was seen to be full of large
signs bearing what seemed to them to be the French word for "dirty".
("Sale"). - Neil.
Stephen Toogood
<ma...@polka.bikini> writes
>One had some social acquaintance with the current Fetherstonhaugh [sic] who
>inhabits Kirkoswald in Cumbria -- he pronounces it "Fetherstunhoff",
>Cholmondeley of Cholmondeley Castle, Cheshire -- Chumley is the only
>possible pronunciation, it seems.
>
Who kept as a pet a babuhoun.
But his mother said: "Cholmondely,
I don't think it quite colmondely
To feed your babuhoun with a spuhoun."
--
Stephen Toogood
Michael Cargal
>> "Salop" is a French expletive, usually directed at a male person,
>> roughly akin to "bastard" or "bugger", etc.
So a salopsist is one who buggers himself?
--
Michael Cargal mhca...@home.com
Tootsie
Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote in message
>As in other languages, very common first names are also used as insults
>in French. "Marie" is part of at least six terms of abuse, one of which
>is _Marie-salope_, "slut, tart, whore." (Sorry, Tootsie; I'm only the
>messenger.)
Ah, but "Marie" isn't my name. I do not identify with "Marie" any more
than I would with "Mary." "Maria" -- at least in the US -- is quite a
separate name, I think.
Tootsie