Hyphen question
Alan Jones
"Tootsie" <too...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:8ga87f$bkp$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
| [snip]
Webster's New World Dictionary (Third College Edition) has
| groundbreaking as both an adjective and a noun.
|
|
| "groundbreaking. adj. 1 designating or of the ceremony of breaking
| ground, as for a new building. 2 pioneering -- n. a groundbreaking
| ceremony for a new building. -- groundbreaker n."
|
| Ground-breaking is not given in this dictionary, but it was published in
| 1988. Maybe things have changed.
|
| And from WWWebsters:
|
| "Main Entry: ground搓reak搏ng
| Pronunciation: -"brA-ki[ng]
| Function: adjective
| Date: 1907
| : markedly innovative <has written a groundbreaking work>"
|
| I didn't check any other dictionaries, but I'd use the one-word version
| without hesitation. (However, pleasing the editor may be the wisest
| choice, especially in view of the various opinions expressed here.)
|
| Maria
UK Chambers (1992) has essentially the same entry as Webster NWD, but adds
"esp.US", which surprised me. No hyphen for adjective or noun. UK Collins
(also 1992) has no entry for this compound at all - even more surprising.
Perhaps I'd better buy the latest edition.
Alan Jones
Warren Harding
> On Sun, 21 May 2000 09:00:26 -0700, Aissa
> <ai...@junkfree.mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 21 May 2000 01:18:35 -0700, "Tom Reedy" <tre...@cooke.net>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>I had an argument tonight with an editor about the use of a hyphen with the
> >>phrase "ground breaking ceremony." She said it should be "ground-breaking
> >>ceremony," since the first two words make up a compound adjective. I said
> >>no, it should be written without a hyphen unless you are writing about a
> >>historic, never-before-attempted ceremony, and that the whole phrase
> >>operates as one unit in the sense it is used.
> >>
> >>What say you?
> >
> >I say "groundbreaking" is one word.
> >
>
> Which leads me to remark that the hyphen can sometimes
> mark a critical difference in meaning.
>
> A wind-break is something used to protect you from
> excessive breezes as you bask on the beach.
>
> Breaking wind has to do with an entirely different kind
> of breeze.
>
> So what is a windbreaker? Or a wind-breaker?
>
> Jitze
It's windbreaker (no hyphen).
The OCED says it is US (although it is used in Canada as well) for windcheater,
which it defines as "a kind of wind-resistant outer jacket with close-fitting
neck, cuffs, and lower edge."
Warren in Toronto
Ray Heindl
<kX%V4.18267$T41.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:
>> My dictionary agrees with you, and it also lists the ceremony as
>> being the meaning of the term when used as a noun. So the phrase
>> "groundbreaking ceremony" could be considered redundant, and using
>> just "groundbreaking" should resolve the argument.
>
>MWCD10 lists "groundbreaking" as an adjective only. Ground breaking
>is something else -- the beginning of construction and such. So, if
>the ceremony was truly something innovative, it could have been
>called a groundbreaking one, no matter what it was for. In
>describing the beginning of construction, or the start of some other
>task, the proceedings could be described metaphorically as a ground
>breaking ceremony. I have no use for a hyphen in any case. Others
>have disagreed with my views, and there always are some who will do
>that.
>
I should have mentioned that the dictionary I cited above was the RHUD.
It lists the adjective sense, as does MWCD10, but also lists the
single-word noun. There's no mention of hyphenated or two-word
phrases.
--
Ray Heindl
John Holmes
Jitze Couperus wrote in message
<39281ee9...@news.mindspring.com>...
>So what is a windbreaker? Or a wind-breaker?
One of PDQ Bach's favourite instruments, wasn't it?
Regards,
John.
Rhys Watkins
> I myself have been to many ground-breakings, and found none of them
> groundbreaking. And the gold shovels? Painted! Feh.
> A great fear of mine is that I'll be blindsided by an earthshakingly
groundbreaking hairsplitting bushwhacker.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Jody
> jodyb...@mail.smsu.edu
Oops Jody!
*I myself*?
--
Rhys Watkins - a hairsplitting bushwacker.
rhysw...@CRAZYone.net.au
Remove CRAZY to reply
Dave Blair
news:LlLV4.38334$nm6.7...@news-east.usenetserver.com...
> I had an argument tonight with an editor about the use of a
> hyphen with the phrase "ground breaking ceremony." She said
> it should be "ground-breaking ceremony," since the first two
> words make up a compound adjective. I said no, it should be
> written without a hyphen unless you are writing about a
> historic, never-before-attempted ceremony, and that the whole
> phrase operates as one unit in the sense it is used.
>
> What say you?
A "ground breaking ceremony" would mean something like a
"breaking ceremony" held on the ground, as opposed to the "air
breaking ceremony" held in the airplane.
But neither make sense, so you need the hyphen to group "ground"
and "breaking" up into a compound adjective, as your editor said.
Re "groundbreaking": I can see objections other posters are
making that this would mean "a totally revolutionary concept in
ceremonies", but this interpretation is unlikely (if not used by
a catering organization), and anyway, "groundbreaking" has passed
into the language on its own to mean the ceremony, as
"housewarming" has. So, it could possibly be ambiguous, but not
wrong.
Dave
--
Dave Blair
Halle/Saale, Germany
Donna Richoux
> > I myself have been to many ground-breakings, and found none of them
> > groundbreaking. And the gold shovels? Painted! Feh.
>
> Oops Jody!
>
> *I myself*?
Perfectly good US colloquialism. You yourself may not be familiar with
it.
Or perhaps you meant "myself" should be set off by commas? So many
commas have gone extinct these days.
--
Best --- Donna Richoux
Dave Blair
news:19vnisgnoll68puvk...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 May 2000 08:10:22 GMT, "Dave Blair"
<dave...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
> >A "ground breaking ceremony" would mean something like a
> >"breaking ceremony" held on the ground, as opposed to the "air
> >breaking ceremony" held in the airplane.
>
> Man.
Actually, I meant that it would be a wimpy breaking ceremony...
err... or something...
(I'm not going to come out of this alive, am I?)
ObAUE: Using "aircraft" sounds to me as if the "aircraft" were
still on the ground when the ceremony takes place inside it;
airplanes fly, but aircraft (being the technical term) are
modelled, designed, exhibited, repaired etc., so definitely
stay on the ground.
Rudolf Schwarzkopf-Zskai
Dave Blair hyphenless-in-Gaza he say:
: Actually, I meant that it would be a wimpy breaking ceremony...
: err... or something...
Oi!
Surely it's 'wimpy*-*breaking'?
Rudolf
rud...@dollynet.freeserve.co.uk
www.dollynet.freeserve.co.uk
Mike Oliver
> Or perhaps you meant "myself" should be set off by commas?
Speaking for myself only, Donna, I have no particular desire
to set you off by commas.
Donna Richoux
> I have always said "have become extinct", myself. I think I may have
> heard some say "gone extinct" but it doesn't seem to be normal NZ usage.
> Would you say that your usage is common amongst your acquaintances?
I'm comfortable using it, but maybe it's just the circles I move in. I
looked up the frequency in Altameter, and found that "become" and
"became extinct" outnumber "go," "went," and "have gone extinct" ten to
one.
I wonder if those who work in the field (natural history) have a
position on this. I'll ask.
Dave Blair
Newsbeitrag news:8ghfri$b0a$3...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Dave Blair hyphenless-in-Gaza he say:
>
> : Actually, I meant that it would be a wimpy breaking
> : ceremony... err... or something...
>
> Oi!
> Surely it's 'wimpy*-*breaking'?
Yeeeees...
Although "wimpy" should be capitalized.
I think. Err. Hm. What are we talking about, exactly?
Charles Riggs
>In article <1eb4yo5.1j67tcnvu2soeN%tr...@euronet.nl>, tr...@euronet.nl
>(Donna Richoux) wrote:
>
>>
>>Or perhaps you meant "myself" should be set off by commas? So many
>>commas have gone extinct these days.
>
>I have always said "have become extinct", myself. I think I may have
>heard some say "gone extinct" but it doesn't seem to be normal NZ usage.
>Would you say that your usage is common amongst your acquaintances?
It sounds to me that Donna was using, perhaps unconsciously, a
Briticism. I haven't heard "have gone extinct" but one often hears
"have gone missing", which I think is similar, whereas an American
would usually say "are missing" or, more likely, "can't be located".
I don't know the NZ practice.
Charles Riggs
Donna Richoux
>
> It sounds to me that Donna was using, perhaps unconsciously, a
> Briticism. I haven't heard "have gone extinct" but one often hears
> "have gone missing", which I think is similar, whereas an American
> would usually say "are missing" or, more likely, "can't be located".
> I don't know the NZ practice.
Nice try, Charles, but I don't think so. I don't link the two phrases in
any way and I would never say "gone missing." I say "go extinct" because
I've heard it for years, maybe all my life.
My husband just walked by and he says "become extinct" and "go extinct"
are interchangeable, to him. Natural history people talk about
extinction a lot, so I think he'd know if there was strong feeling in
those circles... Now he comes back and adds that what he said is for
"common parlance"; in formal uses, scientists might use other
constructions altogether, like extinction events occuring.
Jody Bilyeu
"Donna Richoux" <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1eb4yo5.1j67tcnvu2soeN%tr...@euronet.nl...
> Rhys Watkins <rhysw...@one.net.au> wrote:
>
> > > I myself have been to many ground-breakings, and found none of them
> > > groundbreaking. And the gold shovels? Painted! Feh.
>
> >
> > Oops Jody!
> >
> > *I myself*?
>
> Perfectly good US colloquialism. You yourself may not be familiar with
> it.
>
> commas have gone extinct these days.
Interesting! First, I consulted a couple style guides and discovered that
neither of them so much as acknowledged the possibility of putting commas around
an intensive pronoun. 'Course, both of my style guides were published
stateside. Don't the British have occasion to use an intensive pronoun now and
then?
Commas?
--
Cheers,
Jody
jodyb...@mail.smsu.edu