What is wusses?
Franke
East Man wrote:
> I read the word in following phrase;
>
> "When I was growing up," says Aaron Baddeley(young golfer from Austrailia), who
> is still growing up(he is 20), "golf wasn't considered an old man's game, like
> in America." ("When I was growing up," Tiger Woods(famous American pro golfer)
> speaks for the Americans, "we were looked at wusses, not even athletes.")
>
> What is wusses? Is it a modified Aussies?
No, it's a deprecatory term for a male who does things
that are not "tough", like play golf instead of tackle
fiootball or basketball. It's a combination of the two
words "wimp" and "pussy":
wuss
(N. Amer.) n. sissy, wimp [wUs] etym. combination of the
words "wimp" and "pussy" ex. "I was a teenage wuss", "What a
wuss!"
Find it here:
<http://www.notam.uio.no/~hcholm/altlang/ht/English.html>
>
>
> Many thanks for any help,
>
> East Man
jan sand
Fortunately the words were not combined in reverse order, since that
would result in "pimp".
Jan Sand
Joe Manfre
>No, it's a deprecatory term for a male who does things
>that are not "tough", like play golf instead of tackle
>fiootball or basketball. It's a combination of the two
>words "wimp" and "pussy":
>
>wuss
> (N. Amer.) n. sissy, wimp [wUs] etym. combination of the
>words "wimp" and "pussy" ex. "I was a teenage wuss", "What a
>wuss!"
>
>Find it here:
>
><http://www.notam.uio.no/~hcholm/altlang/ht/English.html>
You can also look up "wuss" at m-w.com, which helpfully records
both plural forms "wusses" and "wussies". I was rather impressed
with that, but I think they wussed out on the etymology.
JM
--
Joe Manfre, Hyattsville, Maryland.
Iannis Kyris
>
> Many thanks for your kind answer.
> It's great help for me.
An excellent site for looking up funny words is www.onelook.com.
Indispensable!
Best regards
--
Iannis K.
ikyris...@yahoo.com.invalid
(de-Hellenise my address for email)
------------------------------------------------------------------
'There are no answers, only cross-references'
Franke
Joe Manfre wrote:
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1983
You can say that again.
R J Valentine
And people wonder why I won't bother with MW publications since Webster's
Second. The word was well explained in _Fast Times at Ridgemont High_
(1982) by the fellow who arranged for concert tickets. It's not like the
movie was a big secret in 1983, but it was either coined for the movie or
had a life of its own before that.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Evan Kirshenbaum
> You can also look up "wuss" at m-w.com, which helpfully records
> both plural forms "wusses" and "wussies". I was rather impressed
> with that, but I think they wussed out on the etymology.
And the date. They date it to 1983, but in the 1982 movie _Fast Times
at Ridgemont High_, one of the characters spells it out:
Mike Damone: You are a wuss: part wimp, and part pussy.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It is one thing to be mistaken; it is
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |quite another to be willfully
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |ignorant
| Cecil Adams
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Tom Prigge
form of "wussy."
N.Mitchum
----
> "When I was growing up," Tiger Woods(famous American pro golfer)
> speaks for the Americans, "we were looked at wusses, not even athletes."
>
Not at all. "Wuss" is a word in its own right. It means wimp; a
weak, ineffectual person; not manly or important.
----NM
Richard Maurer
And the date. They date it to 1983, but in the 1982 movie _Fast Times
at Ridgemont High_, one of the characters spells it out:
Mike Damone: You are a wuss: part wimp, and part pussy.
>>
<< [Tom Prigge]
I remember using "wuss" at least ten years before that, usually in the
form of "wussy." >>
Yes, and I also remember the arguments about the six or so
spelling and pronounciation variations.
But the word did not come with a definition.
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of the homonym of the synonym for also.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Donna Richoux
> man...@flash.net (Joe Manfre) writes:
>
> > You can also look up "wuss" at m-w.com, which helpfully records
> > both plural forms "wusses" and "wussies". I was rather impressed
> > with that, but I think they wussed out on the etymology.
>
> And the date. They date it to 1983, but in the 1982 movie _Fast Times
> at Ridgemont High_, one of the characters spells it out:
>
> Mike Damone: You are a wuss: part wimp, and part pussy.
Gentlemen, you have all heard of the concept of inventing false
etymologies and passing them along for amusement. Why is this one taken
as gospel? Did a particular movie writer swear on a stack of Bibles, "I
invented this word and this is why I did it"?
(Sorry for two religious images in one line, but I can't figure out
which one to take out.)
--
Best --- Donna Richoux
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
> > man...@flash.net (Joe Manfre) writes:
> >
> > > You can also look up "wuss" at m-w.com, which helpfully records
> > > both plural forms "wusses" and "wussies". I was rather
> > > impressed with that, but I think they wussed out on the
> > > etymology.
> >
> > And the date. They date it to 1983, but in the 1982 movie _Fast
> > Times at Ridgemont High_, one of the characters spells it out:
> >
> > Mike Damone: You are a wuss: part wimp, and part pussy.
>
> Gentlemen, you have all heard of the concept of inventing false
> etymologies and passing them along for amusement. Why is this one
> taken as gospel? Did a particular movie writer swear on a stack of
> Bibles, "I invented this word and this is why I did it"?
No, but when
(1) A very popular movie, especially one very popular among
teenagers claims that a word has a particular genesis,
(2) The purported genesis is plausible,
(3) The movie came out in 1982 and a credible dictionary dates the
word, presumably using print citations to 1983, and
(4) Nobody has come up with a more plausible etymology, and the
dictionary in question only says "origin unknown".
I don't see any reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt.
That others are now claiming that they knew the word somewhat earlier
takes some of the weight off of (3), but as they aren't saying that it
was known to have a different meaning, I'm not sure why you'd jump to
"false etymology".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |When correctly viewed,
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U | Everything is lewd.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |I could tell you things
| about Peter Pan,
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |and the Wizard of Oz--
(650)857-7572 | there's a dirty old man!
| Tom Lehrer
Richard Fontana
I'm inclined to be skeptical. It seems to have the quality of a bogus
etymology -- difficult to describe, but I know it (or I think I do) when I
see it. It seems too clever.
Ben Zimmer
Donna Richoux wrote:
>
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
> > man...@flash.net (Joe Manfre) writes:
> >
> > > You can also look up "wuss" at m-w.com, which helpfully records
> > > both plural forms "wusses" and "wussies". I was rather impressed
> > > with that, but I think they wussed out on the etymology.
> >
> > And the date. They date it to 1983, but in the 1982 movie _Fast Times
> > at Ridgemont High_, one of the characters spells it out:
> >
> > Mike Damone: You are a wuss: part wimp, and part pussy.
>
> Gentlemen, you have all heard of the concept of inventing false
> etymologies and passing them along for amusement. Why is this one taken
> as gospel? Did a particular movie writer swear on a stack of Bibles, "I
> invented this word and this is why I did it"?
Not that this settles anything, but Tony Thorne's Bloomsbury Dictionary
of Contemporary Slang dates the American usage of "wuss" all the way
back to the '60s (no citations given):
http://www.xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=343271&secid=.-
wuss n
1 American a weak, feeble person, and by extension a
dupe. A word used by college students and young people
from the 1960s and probably inspired by 'puss', 'pussy' or
'pussy-wussy', used as a term of endearment to a kitten.
2 in Swansea and other parts of Wales, the word wuss is
commonly heard as a synonym for mate or buddy. This is a
shortening and anglicization of the Welsh gwas meaning
servant.'Hiya wuss. How's it
going?'
And here's his entry for "wussy":
http://www.xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=343272&secid=.-
wussy n American
a variation of (and probably the origin of) the more
common wuss.
'Come on, toxic waste won't kill you. Don't be
such a wussy.'
(Armed and Dangerous, US film, (1986)).
--Ben
Donna Richoux
There's a thoughtful dictionary about slang on the web? Not just
someone's personal definitions, but something with history? I'll have to
check that out.
The Pocket Dictionary of American Slang (1968) does not have "wuss' or
"wussy," but it has "wuzzy" in its appendix "Supplement of New Words":
wuzzy n. A girl /Some teenage use, via British
rock-and-roll use, from the French 'oiseau" = bird./
That makes a lot of sense-- "oiseau" sounds like "wuss," "bird" was
well-known British slang for girl, and "girlish" would be a pretty good
translation of "wussy."
The main section of the same dictionary also says that "wuzzy" was a
variant of "woozy," both meaning "dazed or confused" since 1890s; drunk
since 1930s; and faint, dizzy since then.
--
Best wishes --- Donna Richoux
Donna Richoux
> I don't see any reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt.
> That others are now claiming that they knew the word somewhat earlier
> takes some of the weight off of (3), but as they aren't saying that it
> was known to have a different meaning, I'm not sure why you'd jump to
> "false etymology".
Well, I didn't say it was false; I would have to have more evidence for
that. I was just reminding you all of the possibility, since this cute
little portmanteau explanation was being accepted without question. I
think words known truly to be portmanteaus that have made it into common
currency are extremely rare, don't you? Have there been any that were
not invented by a single, identifiable author?
Yet, just like false acronyms, it's easy to sit around and dream up
portmanteau explanations afterwards -- "This word sounds as if it is
part 'this' and part "that.'"
Richard Fontana
Does that dictionary contain pronunciation indications? I think it's
crucial to know how "wuzzy" was pronounced before we can go and connect it
with "wuss(y)". "Wuss(y)" has the vowel /U/; it doesn't rhyme with
"fuss(y)". Now, just looking at the spelling
of "wuzzy", and assuming for the moment that it was a word of American
origin, I would assume that the pronunciation was /wVzi/, rhyming with
"fuzzy" (as in "fuzzy-wuzzy"). However, if indeed the word was
imported from "British rock-and-roll use", there's some possibility that a
different vowel was used by the American importers, for some British
speakers, in pronouncing a word like "fuzzy", would use a vowel that
Americans might hear as their /U/ rather than their /V/.
I think the etymology offered in the source Ben quoted is more plausible
than the portmanteau theory, which is unlikely for the reasons you gave in
your response to Evan's posting.
R H Draney
news:1evtcik.1nogmp21pztzmwN%tr...@euronet.nl...
>
> The Pocket Dictionary of American Slang (1968) does not have "wuss' or
> "wussy," but it has "wuzzy" in its appendix "Supplement of New Words":
>
> wuzzy n. A girl /Some teenage use, via British
> rock-and-roll use, from the French 'oiseau" = bird./
>
> That makes a lot of sense-- "oiseau" sounds like "wuss," "bird" was
> well-known British slang for girl, and "girlish" would be a pretty good
> translation of "wussy."
Wow!...a parallel with the Yiddish word "faygeleh" (lit. "little bird") to
refer to a male homosexual....r
Theodore Heise
Ben Zimmer <bgzi...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
> > Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And the date. They date it to 1983, but in the 1982 movie _Fast Times
> > > at Ridgemont High_, one of the characters spells it out:
> Not that this settles anything, but Tony Thorne's Bloomsbury Dictionary
> of Contemporary Slang dates the American usage of "wuss" all the way
> back to the '60s (no citations given):
>
> wuss n
> 1 American a weak, feeble person, and by extension a
> dupe. A word used by college students and young people
> from the 1960s and probably inspired by 'puss', 'pussy' or
> 'pussy-wussy', used as a term of endearment to a kitten.
> wussy n American
> a variation of (and probably the origin of) the more
> common wuss.
My friends and I liberally used both wuss and wussy in the late 60s
in Omaha. We were in junior high and used wussy when we talked about
someone we considered a sissy. We also used pussy in much the same
way.
I seem to recall that we used wussy for a while before anyone used wuss.
Ted
--
Theodore W. Heise <the...@netins.net> West Lafayette, IN, USA
PGP public key: http://showcase.netins.net/web/twheise/theise.txt
Donna Richoux
[snip discussion of "wuss" and "wuzzy"]
> Does that dictionary contain pronunciation indications? I think it's
> crucial to know how "wuzzy" was pronounced before we can go and connect it
> with "wuss(y)".
[snip]
No, sorry, no pronunciations. It's an abridgement of the Dictionary of
American Slang, authors Wentworth & Flexner, published by Crowell, just
in case someone is sitting on a copy.
Since "wuzzy" was shown as a variant of "woozy," I thought ...[goes and
looks up symbols] ... that it might have
the short oo sound /U/ of good, (and "wuss")
or even the long oo sound /u/ of moo, (and "woozy")
but not the short u sound /V/ of up. (and "fuzzy-wuzzy").
Still possible, though.
And the earlier wuzzy might not even be connected to the later wuzzy.
--
Fuzzy-wuzzy wasn't very fuzzy, was he? --- Donna Richoux
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Ben Zimmer <bgzi...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
> > Not that this settles anything, but Tony Thorne's Bloomsbury Dictionary
> > of Contemporary Slang dates the American usage of "wuss" all the way
> > back to the '60s (no citations given):
> >
> > http://www.xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=343271&secid=.-
> >
> > wuss n
> >
> > 1 American a weak, feeble person, and by extension a
> > dupe. A word used by college students and young people
> > from the 1960s and probably inspired by 'puss', 'pussy' or
> > 'pussy-wussy', used as a term of endearment to a kitten.
> > 2 in Swansea and other parts of Wales, the word wuss is
> > commonly heard as a synonym for mate or buddy. This is a
> > shortening and anglicization of the Welsh gwas meaning
> > servant.'Hiya wuss. How's it
> > going?'
>
>
> The Pocket Dictionary of American Slang (1968) does not have "wuss'
> or "wussy," but it has "wuzzy" in its appendix "Supplement of New
> Words":
>
> wuzzy n. A girl /Some teenage use, via British
> rock-and-roll use, from the French 'oiseau" = bird./
>
> That makes a lot of sense-- "oiseau" sounds like "wuss," "bird" was
> well-known British slang for girl, and "girlish" would be a pretty
> good translation of "wussy."
Since we're pulling out slang dictionaries, Chapman's _American Slang_
(1987) says
*wussy* or *wuss* n _teenagers_ A weak person; = PUSSYCAT, WIMP;
_"Wussy" was a particularly expressive word...the handy
combination of wimp and pussy_--Cameron Crowe [perhaps a
shortening of hypothetical _pussy-wussy_]
Unfortunately, Chapman doesn't give dates. I'm not sure what to make
of the juxtaposition of the quote he chose and his proposed etymology.
It seems a bit bizarre to be jumping to the conclusion that it's
derived from an unattested ("hypothetical") word in the face of people
claiming something else. And when one of the people claiming
otherwise, the one he chooses to quote, was the screenwriter of _Fast
Times at Ridgemont High_. (He has later gone on to fame as the
writer/director/producer of _Jerry Maguire and _Almost Famous_, but at
the time the dictionary was written, _Fast Times_ and _The Wild Life_
were pretty much all he had done.) Not exactly "swearing on a stack
of bibles", I'll admit.
AHD4 says "Probably blend of WIMP PUSSY(1)". Between this and the
MWCD/ol date of 1983 (the year after _Fast Times_ came out), I'd
suspect that both of them thought that it was likely that Crowe coined
the word, but weren't willing to commit. I was about to say that the
other dictionary's pushing it back to the '60s meant that it couldn't
have come from "wimp", but MWCD/old dates that back to 1920.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The misinformation that passes for
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |gospel wisdom about English usage
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |is sometimes astounding.
| Merriam-Webster's Dictionary
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | of English Usage
(650)857-7572
GrapeApe
>} Date: 1983
>}
>} You can say that again.
>
>And people wonder why I won't bother with MW publications since Webster's
>Second. The word was well explained in _Fast Times at Ridgemont High_
>(1982) by the fellow who arranged for concert tickets. It's not like the
>movie was a big secret in 1983, but it was either coined for the movie or
>had a life of its own before that.
>
No it was not coined for the movie, that is the point. Apparently to some
people it led a relatively incognito life however.
GrapeApe
> dictionary in question only says "origin unknown".
>
If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. A better phrase
than "origin unknown' might be, "we don't know and aren't going to look very
far for a published usage".
It was not a neologism at the time of that movie. The screenwriter was probably
using it when he were the characters age.
GrapeApe
>looks up symbols] ... that it might have
> the short oo sound /U/ of good, (and "wuss")
>or even the long oo sound /u/ of moo, (and "woozy")
>but not the short u sound /V/ of up. (and "fuzzy-wuzzy").
>
>Still possible, though.
Woozy Winks may have been a Wuss, but he was called Woozy Winks because of his
sleepy looking glaze and way of figuratively sleepwalking through certain
situations, a bravado of ignorance and lack of awareness. His bravery or
cowardice varied depending on the needs of the story.
(Woozy was a fat comic sidekick of 1940s comic character Plastic Man)
R J Valentine
...
He _were_ the characters age. He went undercover to research the
book. Is the word in the book? That was a published usage, right?
Skitt
"R J Valentine" <r...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:tjvr0am...@corp.supernews.com...
The "were" for "was" cutesy thing is spreading like wildfire in this group.
No longer funny, though.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://i.am/skitt/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).