Negro, Negress, Negroid

[Mack A. Damia]

The dictionaries say that all these terms are "offensive". Aren't
they scientific?

Do you know who Candace Owens is? She is a very attractive black
woman who spouts nonsense on Fox News. On Facebook yesterday, she said
that Biden is turning America into a communist country. Very doubtful
that she knows what "communism" is.

I replied to her by writing, "It's time for Fox News's token Negress."
There is no doubt that she is.

Facebook immediately suspended me for thirty days, and I appealed.
This morning I got a message from Facebook saying that they "got it
wrong", and my comment was back up and the suspension lifted.

[CDB]

On 11/10/2021 11:25 AM, Mack A. Damia wrote:

> The dictionaries say that all these terms are "offensive". Aren't
> they scientific?

Well, they're etymologically justified; but you know how much credit
etymology gets around here.

> Do you know who Candace Owens is? She is a very attractive black
> woman who spouts nonsense on Fox News. On Facebook yesterday, she
> said that Biden is turning America into a communist country. Very
> doubtful that she knows what "communism" is.

> I replied to her by writing, "It's time for Fox News's token
> Negress." There is no doubt that she is.

> Facebook immediately suspended me for thirty days, and I appealed.
> This morning I got a message from Facebook saying that they "got it
> wrong", and my comment was back up and the suspension lifted.

Perhaps they decided that you were alluding to the old phrase "token
Negro", which originated when the word was considered polite and the
phrase was used by those who advocated equality.

I'm a bit surprised they didn't ding you for the "-ess" word, though.
V. disrespectful of women, I hear.

--
And of course I meant "wimmin".

[Mack A. Damia]

Who finds the terms offensive? Not me. As you know, "negro" is
Spanish for "black".

Blacks call themselves "Negro", "Hey, Negro, How's it hanging?"

I haven't heard "Negress" too often, although I did read it somewhere
recently.

The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely
white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.

How can it be said that "Negroid" is offensive? Or any term that
emanates from it?

[Pamela]

I am surprised Facebook reinstated you as they have a reputation for
being inflexible. Well done.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:

> The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely
> white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.

No, it can't. We have known for decades that there is more genetic
variation _within_ those skin-color-determined groups than _between_
them.

[Mack A. Damia]

I must be on Facebook's radar. It just happened again.

Watching the Kyle Rittenhouse trial. He is on the stand. I wrote:

"He is emphasizing that he was there with a first aid kit giving aid
to injured people. Not with an AR-15 he aint."

Immediately suspended for thirty days. I appealed, and it was
reversed. Don't know what is going on with them; there is no sound
reasoning from them.

[Mack A. Damia]

As usual, you miss the point and just want to argue.

My point is "Negroid".

[Peter T. Daniels]

Which has no place in the 21st century except as a legacy and expression of racism.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Facebook suspended me once several years ago, after I wrote
presciently that I thought Trump had fascist tendencies. At least I think they
suspended me. There was no notification, no reason given, no acknowledgement
of any kind, and I had no idea about how to appeal, or to whom. A few weeks
later, I was suddenly able to post again. Who makes that sort of decision?
Why wouldn't they notify me, given that I include a working email address
in every post?

bill

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

I think you've drifted a bit.


But I agree in that racial grouping has some historical & genetic
basis; those of us who are of non-recent African origin set off in
different directions and have evolved slightly differently in the last
50,000 years. Skintone isn't a good indicator.


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Mack A. Damia]

Seems to be very secretive who decides these things. I, too, was
surprised when they reversed the suspension, not once but twice.

Unfortunately, no such thing as "freedom of speech" as it is a private
company, and it is Facebook's rules. But it seems as though there
ought to be some kind of neutral oversight into decisions involving
censorship.

I have no idea why you were not notified. They flagged and let me
know almost instantaneously.

[Peter Moylan]

Does anyone still use "Causasian" to mean "white"? For most of us it
means people from a region centred on Georgia.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Careful, or Mark Brader will killfile you. Maybe you won't care, as I didn't.


--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Madhu]

* CDB <smgu6q$1g5b$1 @gioia.aioe.org> :
Wrote on Wed, 10 Nov 2021 12:06:34 -0500:

> On 11/10/2021 11:25 AM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>> The dictionaries say that all these terms are "offensive". Aren't
>> they scientific?
>
> Well, they're etymologically justified; but you know how much credit
> etymology gets around here.

[snip]

>> Facebook immediately suspended me for thirty days, and I
>> appealed. This morning I got a message from Facebook saying that
>> they "got it wrong", and my comment was back up and the suspension
>> lifted.
>
> Perhaps they decided that you were alluding to the old phrase "token
> Negro", which originated when the word was considered polite and the
> phrase was used by those who advocated equality.
>
> I'm a bit surprised they didn't ding you for the "-ess" word, though.
> V. disrespectful of women, I hear.

What about `Nigra'? When I came across that in a few Flashman in
America books (set in the 19th century English) I assumed digital editor
had sanitised "nigger" (but it seemed very incomplete and followed no
discernable rules. just like the inadequate editing out of blasphemies
in some Flashman manuscripts by Flashman's sister-in law Grizel de
Rothschild). When I looked it up, somewhere it said that it was applied
to females - but the use in the Flashman Papers isn't restricted to
females. e.g. In /Flash for Freedom/ Lincoln uses it consistently in
conversation. The use of one or the other word can't be out of
considerations of politness can it, or is it some half hearted
"censorship" attempt after all

[Adam Funk]

Dunno about real life, but I think on TV shows American cops still use
it to describe suspects' appearance.

IRL, the UK police have numbered codes for this:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_codes>


--
My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a
whorehouse or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's
hardly any difference. ---Harry S Truman

[CDB]

On 11/10/2021 8:20 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:

> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> Mack A. Damia wrote:

>>> The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely
>>> white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.

>> No, it can't. We have known for decades that there is more genetic
>> variation _within_ those skin-color-determined groups than
>> _between_ them.

> Does anyone still use "Causasian" to mean "white"? For most of us it
> means people from a region centred on Georgia.

I've been watching the traditional dances of the region on Youtube -
mostly those of the Circassians, who seem to be thriving in Turkey as
well as in the Caucasus. They certainly are white, with dark hair and
some eastern features.

The dances shown are always done in front of a crowd of watchers, and
are done for the watchers to some exten - they were part of the courting
process (not a revelation, I know): the dancers, usually a paired male
and female, almost never touch, but circle each other. The males
display vigour, agility, and a keen interest in their partner; the
females exhibit grace, beauty, and a modesty almost amounting to disdain
- their gestures are slower and directed downward more than those of the
males, who raise their arms and spread them outward in a way that
reminds me of a series of _Dilbert_ cartoons (sorry, Cerkes). The
dancing pairs replace each other often, sometimes directed by a master
of ceremonies who may carry a staff of office ornamented with bells or
flowers.

For some reason I found those clips fascinating, although I have been
neglecting them of late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0cwLXknLlg

[Richard Heathfield]

For me it means a variety of chalk invented by a bloke called Brecht.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[CDB]

On 11/11/2021 4:22 AM, Madhu wrote:
> * CDB <smgu6q$1g5b$1 @gioia.aioe.org>:

I have mentioned this before, but.

Lars Eighner used to visit this group, and once related an encounter he
had had with a Southerner of the old school. He was careful then to
refer to Black people (of either sex, IIRC) as "Nigras", because it was
the polite form accepted in his interlocutor's milieu. To have used a
term more acceptable to us would have marked him as an outsider and
might have meant danger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Eighner

[charles]

In article <smj600$9nh$1...@dont-email.me>,

Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> On 11/11/2021 01:20, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 11/11/21 04:34, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely
> >>> white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.
> >>
> >> No, it can't. We have known for decades that there is more genetic
> >> variation _within_ those skin-color-determined groups than _between_
> >> them.
> >
> > Does anyone still use "Causasian" to mean "white"? For most of us it
> > means people from a region centred on Georgia.

> For me it means a variety of chalk invented by a bloke called Brecht.

but that's only when it's in a circle

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[spains...@gmail.com]

That is interesting. We used to dance (in Surrey) what we called
the Circassian Reel, but which properly seems to be the Circassian
Circle (the Reel being its tune?). A Scottish Dance:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeejZDqD1F4>

"Strip the Willow" was properly dangerous. Anyone who says
centrifugal force doesn't exist, has never experienced "Strip the Willow".

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 9:25:28 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> The dictionaries say that all these terms are "offensive". Aren't
> they scientific?

"Negro" and "Negroid" probably were once.

As I see it, the problem with "Negro" is that it came to be a euphemism for "black",
but "black" isn't a disgrace and doesn't need a euphemism.

"Negress" has an additional problem, which is that it is a term for females of
an ethnic group that there was also an unmarked term for ("Negro"). The only other
examples of that are "Jewess" and "squaw". Those words were applied to
people who there were and are strong prejudices against, and resemble various
animal words (mare, hen, vixen, etc.)

> Do you know who Candace Owens is? She is a very attractive black
> woman who spouts nonsense on Fox News. On Facebook yesterday, she said
> that Biden is turning America into a communist country. Very doubtful
> that she knows what "communism" is.

So she was doing what she was hired for.

> I replied to her by writing, "It's time for Fox News's token Negress."
> There is no doubt that she is.

I advise you not to mention people's race when you're insulting them,
even if they got their job through tokenism. The point is that she's wrong
about Biden and Communism, not that she's black. Did anyone say anything
like "See, liberals are racists"?

This is assuming there's any point to insulting public figures on Facebook,
other than relieving your feelings.

> Facebook immediately suspended me for thirty days, and I appealed.
> This morning I got a message from Facebook saying that they "got it
> wrong", and my comment was back up and the suspension lifted.

I'm surprised it was lifted. On the other hand, I'm surprised you were
suspended for your other comment.

Facebook is a very big company handling an enormous amount of
material. I guess it's not so surprising that they get some things wrong.
Of course, they've gotten much bigger things wrong.

--
Jerry Friedman

[CDB]

On 11/11/2021 9:47 AM, spains...@gmail.com wrote:

A clip of a Breton version confirms that it's une dance écossaise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUIEfPi_SgY

[charles]

In article <dcb0e2eb-2b29-46e3...@googlegroups.com>,

a "Foursome" can be quite intersting, too

[Quinn C]

* Peter Moylan:

I don't know if it's used by people in everyday life at all, but it's an
institutionalized category when the race of a person is officially
recorded, e.g. by police, even here in Canada.

In other contexts, it's only asked whether someone is a "visible
minority" or not. That's another institutionalized category.

Contrary to that, "Asian" and "Black" (but not "Oriental", where I live)
are of course everyday categories, but those ancient "scientific" names
are not, and are now considered offensive.

Btw, growing up in German, the racial categories were named "mongolid"
and "negrid", whereas "mongoloid" meant you had Down syndrome. I
wouldn't use any of those words now, and was somewhat taken aback when I
came across the database MongoDB. In German, that sounds like the
equivalent of "Spaz DB".

--
... if you're going around with a red pen and apostrophe, you're
... trying to prove your superiority over people. But if you're
going around trying to use people's correct pronouns, ... you're
trying to connect with them and ... respect them.
-- Gretchen McCulloch on Factually!

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 4:22:28 AM UTC-5, Madhu wrote:

> What about `Nigra'? When I came across that in a few Flashman in
> America books (set in the 19th century English) I assumed digital editor
> had sanitised "nigger" (but it seemed very incomplete and followed no
> discernable rules. just like the inadequate editing out of blasphemies
> in some Flashman manuscripts by Flashman's sister-in law Grizel de
> Rothschild). When I looked it up, somewhere it said that it was applied
> to females - but the use in the Flashman Papers isn't restricted to
> females. e.g. In /Flash for Freedom/ Lincoln uses it consistently in
> conversation. The use of one or the other word can't be out of
> considerations of politness can it, or is it some half hearted
> "censorship" attempt after all

I don't know about the early 19th century, but in the mid 20th century
"Nigra" was a Southern dialect variety of "Negro," and it's the form LBJ
used throughout his public life -- it was certainly not a form of "nigger"
-- including in his regular dealings with MLKJr and his championings
of the civil rights acts of 1965-67, his arm-twistings to get them passed.

[Mack A. Damia]

I find the "offensive" label difficult to accept when blacks use the
term with one another.

I can hear Samuel L. Jackson, saying, "Hey, Negro, how goes it?"

I have seen the term, "Negoress", too.

[Mack A. Damia]

Lots of Southerners say "Nigras". LBJ always used the term.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 07:02:39 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 9:25:28 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> The dictionaries say that all these terms are "offensive". Aren't
>> they scientific?
>
>"Negro" and "Negroid" probably were once.
>
>As I see it, the problem with "Negro" is that it came to be a euphemism for "black",
>but "black" isn't a disgrace and doesn't need a euphemism.
>
>"Negress" has an additional problem, which is that it is a term for females of
>an ethnic group that there was also an unmarked term for ("Negro"). The only other
>examples of that are "Jewess" and "squaw". Those words were applied to
>people who there were and are strong prejudices against, and resemble various
>animal words (mare, hen, vixen, etc.)
>
>> Do you know who Candace Owens is? She is a very attractive black
>> woman who spouts nonsense on Fox News. On Facebook yesterday, she said
>> that Biden is turning America into a communist country. Very doubtful
>> that she knows what "communism" is.
>
>So she was doing what she was hired for.
>
>> I replied to her by writing, "It's time for Fox News's token Negress."
>> There is no doubt that she is.
>
>I advise you not to mention people's race when you're insulting them,
>even if they got their job through tokenism. The point is that she's wrong
>about Biden and Communism, not that she's black. Did anyone say anything
>like "See, liberals are racists"?

Fox News supports "white supremacy", and that is obvious. They hire
token blacks to counter any insinuations that they are prejudiced.

>This is assuming there's any point to insulting public figures on Facebook,
>other than relieving your feelings.

Right, she is a "public figure". She is a token black or Negress in
the same way black newsmen readers on Fox are token blacks or Negroes.

Fuck their feelings. Tell it like it is. She is a "token".

>> Facebook immediately suspended me for thirty days, and I appealed.
>> This morning I got a message from Facebook saying that they "got it
>> wrong", and my comment was back up and the suspension lifted.
>
>I'm surprised it was lifted. On the other hand, I'm surprised you were
>suspended for your other comment.
>
>Facebook is a very big company handling an enormous amount of
>material. I guess it's not so surprising that they get some things wrong.
>Of course, they've gotten much bigger things wrong.

There is no rhyme or reason to their actions. Difficult to figure
them out. Only thing I can come up with is that they realized that I
was being honest. Candace Owens is on Fox for a very specific
purpose. Another thing that jumps out is that Fox aint "news"; it is
all propaganda.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 07:02:39 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 9:25:28 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:

...

> >This is assuming there's any point to insulting public figures on Facebook,
> >other than relieving your feelings.

> Right, she is a "public figure". She is a token black or Negress in
> the same way black newsmen readers on Fox are token blacks or Negroes.
>
> Fuck their feelings. Tell it like it is. She is a "token".

...

I'm not thinking of her feelings. It's the opposite: Your comment was pointless
because she'll never know about it. And the objection is to "Negress", not to "token".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 07:02:39 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I'm surprised it was lifted. On the other hand, I'm surprised you were
>suspended for your other comment.

Just wrote that the Rittenhouse trial will be a "hung jury" and that
in a retrial, we can hope for a reasonable judge.

Comment removed by Facebook for going against "community standards".
Don't know why. I have appealed, so I am waiting to see what happens.

[Mack A. Damia]

Update: "Your comment is back on Facebook. We are sorry we got it
wrong."

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:39:57 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman

<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 07:02:39 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 9:25:28 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>...
>
>> >This is assuming there's any point to insulting public figures on Facebook,
>> >other than relieving your feelings.
>
>> Right, she is a "public figure". She is a token black or Negress in
>> the same way black newsmen readers on Fox are token blacks or Negroes.
>>
>> Fuck their feelings. Tell it like it is. She is a "token".
>...
>
>I'm not thinking of her feelings. It's the opposite: Your comment was pointless
>because she'll never know about it. And the objection is to "Negress", not to "token".

Yes, blacks don't like it, although they use the word (Negro) to refer
to themselves.

As I said, fuck their feelings.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:43:36 +0000
Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2021-11-11, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> > On 11/11/21 04:34, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely
> >>> white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.
> >>
> >> No, it can't. We have known for decades that there is more genetic
> >> variation _within_ those skin-color-determined groups than
> >> _between_ them.
> >
> > Does anyone still use "Causasian" to mean "white"? For most of us it
> > means people from a region centred on Georgia.
>
> Dunno about real life, but I think on TV shows American cops still use
> it to describe suspects' appearance.
>
> IRL, the UK police have numbered codes for this:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_codes>
>

Where would they place a jewish person? </feeble SK impersonation>

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 3:03:12 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 07:02:39 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >I'm surprised it was lifted. On the other hand, I'm surprised you were
> >suspended for your other comment.
>
> Just wrote that the Rittenhouse trial will be a "hung jury" and that
> in a retrial, we can hope for a reasonable judge.

As of last night they were inches away from a mistrial, which might
have the same beneficial effect -- unless retrials have to be heard
before the same judge in that jurisdiction. It was said that he outlawed
the use of "victim" to refer to victims many times before.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:47:23 -0500
Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

[]

> wouldn't use any of those words now, and was somewhat taken aback
> when I came across the database MongoDB. In German, that sounds like
> the equivalent of "Spaz DB".
>

I worried a bit about (US) films where there was a character was
called Mongo; was surprised it was "OK".

Ah, how could I forget; it was Blazing Salads.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Any relevant physical characteristics?

"Mingo" is well known from a lot of uses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mingo_(disambiguation)

"Mongo" has even more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongo

[Blueshirt]

On 10/11/2021 17:47, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 09:34:57 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia
wrote:
>>

>>> The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely
>>> white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.
>>
>> No, it can't. We have known for decades that there is more genetic
>> variation _within_ those skin-color-determined groups than _between_
>> them.
>

> As usual, you miss the point and just want to argue.

This is Usenet, isn't arguing about things what it's all about? <shrugs>

> My point is "Negroid".

I just know that this is going to be a *fun* thread!

[Blueshirt]

On 11/11/2021 11:43, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2021-11-11, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 11/11/21 04:34, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely
>>>> white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.
>>>
>>> No, it can't. We have known for decades that there is more genetic
>>> variation _within_ those skin-color-determined groups than _between_
>>> them.
>>
>> Does anyone still use "Causasian" to mean "white"? For most of us it
>> means people from a region centred on Georgia.
>
> Dunno about real life, but I think on TV shows American cops still use
> it to describe suspects' appearance.
>
> IRL, the UK police have numbered codes for this:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_codes>

Security guards used to use IC codes when writing reports about thefts
from shops... I was never allowed to write White or Black, it was always
IC1 or IC3.

[Snidely]

Watch this space, where Jerry Friedman advised that...

The first pass is almost certainly AI, with escalation to human support
at some point.

/dps

--
You could try being nicer and politer
> instead, and see how that works out.
-- Katy Jennison

[Snidely]

Mack A. Damia pounded on thar keyboard to tell us

In-group privileges, whitey.

> As I said, fuck their feelings.

You and RH should have a good time ripping the world.

/dps

--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.

[Sam Plusnet]

Do they just use a list of naughty words & phrases that trigger removal
on an automated basis?

"hung" may well be on such a list.

Offering an opinion of Scunthorpe might also cause you problems.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Jerry Friedman]

No doubt you're remembering that a lot in that film wasn't "OK".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Ross Clark]

Including Ramón Santamaria Rodríguez, Cuban musician professionally
known as Mongo Santamaria*. Wiki does not explain the origin of the
nickname, but apparently it was also given (by family) to Fidel Castro's
eldest brother, so can't be too insulting. Dictionary does not suggest
any Spanish meaning.

*In the comedy movie Blazing Saddles, a scene features the feared bad
man Mongo (played by Alex Karras) riding into town. A local resident is
terrified, crying out "Mongo! Santa Maria!", a double pun on the
musician's name and the Italian exclamation Oh Santa Maria Vergine! (oh
my Virgin Mary).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongo_Santamar%C3%ADa

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 4:24:03 PM UTC-7, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> On 12/11/2021 10:17 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 4:04:12 PM UTC-5, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> >> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:47:23 -0500
> >> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >>
> >> []
> >>> wouldn't use any of those words now, and was somewhat taken aback
> >>> when I came across the database MongoDB. In German, that sounds like
> >>> the equivalent of "Spaz DB".
> >>>
> >> I worried a bit about (US) films where there was a character was
> >> called Mongo; was surprised it was "OK".
> >>
> >> Ah, how could I forget; it was Blazing Salads.
> >
> > Any relevant physical characteristics?
> >
> > "Mingo" is well known from a lot of uses.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mingo_(disambiguation)
> >
> > "Mongo" has even more.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongo

> Including Ramón Santamaria Rodríguez, Cuban musician professionally
> known as Mongo Santamaria*. Wiki does not explain the origin of the
> nickname, but apparently it was also given (by family) to Fidel Castro's
> eldest brother, so can't be too insulting. Dictionary does not suggest
> any Spanish meaning.

If you're talking about why the extension the accented syllable of
"Ramón" was suffixed with "-go", I don't know, but compare "chilango",
a person from Mexico City, and "caballerango", a groom for a horse,
(whence one sense of English "wrangler").

> *In the comedy movie Blazing Saddles, a scene features the feared bad
> man Mongo (played by Alex Karras) riding into town. A local resident is
> terrified, crying out "Mongo! Santa Maria!", a double pun on the
> musician's name and the Italian exclamation Oh Santa Maria Vergine! (oh
> my Virgin Mary).
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongo_Santamar%C3%ADa

I'd call that a single pun, one of whose ingredients was the Italian
exclamation. (There's no similar exclamation in Spanish?) Thanks for
the explanation, since I certainly didn't get it when I saw that movie.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 21:35:58 +0000, Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news>
wrote:

>On 10/11/2021 17:47, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 09:34:57 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia
>wrote:
>>>
>>>> The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely
>>>> white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.
>>>
>>> No, it can't. We have known for decades that there is more genetic
>>> variation _within_ those skin-color-determined groups than _between_
>>> them.
>>
>> As usual, you miss the point and just want to argue.
>
>This is Usenet, isn't arguing about things what it's all about? <shrugs>

You know nothing about an SDS.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:00:26 -0800, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Mack A. Damia pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:39:57 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>
>>>> Right, she is a "public figure". She is a token black or Negress in
>>>> the same way black newsmen readers on Fox are token blacks or Negroes.
>>>>
>>>> Fuck their feelings. Tell it like it is. She is a "token".
>>> ...
>>>
>>> I'm not thinking of her feelings. It's the opposite: Your comment was
>>> pointless because she'll never know about it. And the objection is to
>>> "Negress", not to "token".
>>
>> Yes, blacks don't like it, although they use the word (Negro) to refer
>> to themselves.
>
>In-group privileges, whitey.
>
>> As I said, fuck their feelings.
>
>You and RH should have a good time ripping the world.

This is your first post in this thread.

Better for all of us if you keep scratching your head.

[Mack A. Damia]

I did think of that. I don't know. Maybe "Negro" or related words
are also on their radar.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:47:23 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 3:03:12 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 07:02:39 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >I'm surprised it was lifted. On the other hand, I'm surprised you were
>> >suspended for your other comment.
>>
>> Just wrote that the Rittenhouse trial will be a "hung jury" and that
>> in a retrial, we can hope for a reasonable judge.
>
>As of last night they were inches away from a mistrial, which might
>have the same beneficial effect -- unless retrials have to be heard
>before the same judge in that jurisdiction. It was said that he outlawed
>the use of "victim" to refer to victims many times before.

Were you watching? The judge set all that up. You can't argue with
the judge, so what could the prosecutor say? He was making a valid
point, and the judge knew it.

Notice that right after the exchange, the defense asked for a mistrial
WITH prejudice. If he grants it, Rittenhouse walks free of all
charges. It was a set-up. He can still declare the mistrial with
prejudice depending on what happens.

[Snidely]

Mack A. Damia formulated the question :

Oh, fuck you and all your hate.

/dps

--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 08:25:16 -0800, Mack A. Damia wrote:

> The dictionaries say that all these terms are "offensive". Aren't they
> scientific?
>

> Do you know who Candace Owens is? She is a very attractive black woman
> who spouts nonsense on Fox News. On Facebook yesterday, she said that
> Biden is turning America into a communist country. Very doubtful that
> she knows what "communism" is.
>

> I replied to her by writing, "It's time for Fox News's token Negress."
> There is no doubt that she is.
>

> Facebook immediately suspended me for thirty days, and I appealed. This
> morning I got a message from Facebook saying that they "got it wrong",
> and my comment was back up and the suspension lifted.

Whether they are "offensive" or not depends on the speaker/writer and
hearer/reader. And I'm pretty certain they aren't "scientific" (whatever
that means).

For example, the people who find "negress" offensive are probably the
same ones who find "actress" and "lady doctor" offensive.

"Negro" was regarded very positively by people like Marcus Garvey and W.
du Bois.

In my experience, "Negroid" is only used by racists, or people describing
the language of racists.



--
Steve Hayes http://khanya.wordpress.com

[Steve Hayes]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:43:36 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

>> Does anyone still use "Causasian" to mean "white"? For most of us it
>> means people from a region centred on Georgia.
>
> Dunno about real life, but I think on TV shows American cops still use
> it to describe suspects' appearance.

I was rather unpleasantly surprised to discover the coroners use it to
describe corpses in British TV shows like "Silent Witness".

Georgians, Ossetians and Chechens are Caucasian.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:20:15 -0800, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>Mack A. Damia formulated the question :
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:00:26 -0800, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mack A. Damia pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
>>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:39:57 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>>>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Right, she is a "public figure". She is a token black or Negress in
>>>>>> the same way black newsmen readers on Fox are token blacks or Negroes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fuck their feelings. Tell it like it is. She is a "token".
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not thinking of her feelings. It's the opposite: Your comment was
>>>>> pointless because she'll never know about it. And the objection is to
>>>>> "Negress", not to "token".
>>>>
>>>> Yes, blacks don't like it, although they use the word (Negro) to refer
>>>> to themselves.
>>>
>>> In-group privileges, whitey.
>>>
>>>> As I said, fuck their feelings.
>>>
>>> You and RH should have a good time ripping the world.
>>
>> This is your first post in this thread.
>>
>> Better for all of us if you keep scratching your head.
>
>Oh, fuck you and all your hate.

LOL!

Lost your sense of humor, sonny-boy?

BTW, you know what I hate? "phony people" no matter what race or
gender.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 02:38:16 -0000 (UTC), Steve Hayes
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 08:25:16 -0800, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>> The dictionaries say that all these terms are "offensive". Aren't they
>> scientific?
>>
>> Do you know who Candace Owens is? She is a very attractive black woman
>> who spouts nonsense on Fox News. On Facebook yesterday, she said that
>> Biden is turning America into a communist country. Very doubtful that
>> she knows what "communism" is.
>>
>> I replied to her by writing, "It's time for Fox News's token Negress."
>> There is no doubt that she is.
>>
>> Facebook immediately suspended me for thirty days, and I appealed. This
>> morning I got a message from Facebook saying that they "got it wrong",
>> and my comment was back up and the suspension lifted.
>
>Whether they are "offensive" or not depends on the speaker/writer and
>hearer/reader. And I'm pretty certain they aren't "scientific" (whatever
>that means).

I don't really know, but I thought "Negroid" was a scientific term,
although is may be obsolete and offensive because blacks don't like
it.

>For example, the people who find "negress" offensive are probably the
>same ones who find "actress" and "lady doctor" offensive.
>
>"Negro" was regarded very positively by people like Marcus Garvey and W.
>du Bois.

It is Spanish in origin and means "black". What is offensive about
that? And blacks use the term to refer to one another.

>In my experience, "Negroid" is only used by racists, or people describing
>the language of racists.

Negroid and Negro are related words. I knew a guy fifty years ago who
referred to them as "groids". Now that is offensive.

It is a label, and generally speaking, most if not all people don't
like labels. I didn't like "Limey" in high school. Nothing I could
do about it.

[Ross Clark]

No, Jerry, I'm operating on a much simpler level, where the connection
between "Ramón" and "Mongo" completely passed me by. Thank you.

>> *In the comedy movie Blazing Saddles, a scene features the feared bad
>> man Mongo (played by Alex Karras) riding into town. A local resident is
>> terrified, crying out "Mongo! Santa Maria!", a double pun on the
>> musician's name and the Italian exclamation Oh Santa Maria Vergine! (oh
>> my Virgin Mary).
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongo_Santamar%C3%ADa
>
> I'd call that a single pun, one of whose ingredients was the Italian
> exclamation. (There's no similar exclamation in Spanish?) Thanks for
> the explanation, since I certainly didn't get it when I saw that movie.

That's Wiki's explanation, not mine. I've forgotten almost everything
about that movie, so don't know whether I got it at the time.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 11/11/2021 22:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 11-Nov-21 20:09, Mack A. Damia wrote:

<snip>

>>
>> Update:  "Your comment is back on Facebook.  We are sorry we got it
>> wrong."
>>
> Do they just use a list of naughty words & phrases that trigger removal
> on an automated basis?
>
> "hung" may well be on such a list.
>
> Offering an opinion of Scunthorpe might also cause you problems.

It may cause the scratching of a few heads by asterisking the town's
name to S****horpe.

In the 1990s in a "chat room" it took me a while to work out "de****able".

Artificial intelligence just isn't up to the job of censorship, and
neither are people. If you don't want people to talk one-to-many, become
a tyrant and take away everyone's electronics. That will do it.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Richard Heathfield]

On 11/11/2021 22:00, Snidely wrote:
> Mack A. Damia pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:39:57 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia
>>> wrote:
>
>
>>>> Right, she is a "public figure". She is a token black or Negress in
>>>> the same way black newsmen readers on Fox are token blacks or Negroes.
>>>> Fuck their feelings. Tell it like it is. She is a "token".
>>> ...
>>>
>>> I'm not thinking of her feelings.  It's the opposite: Your comment
>>> was pointless because she'll never know about it.  And the objection
>>> is to "Negress", not to "token".
>>
>> Yes, blacks don't like it, although they use the word (Negro) to refer
>> to themselves.
>
> In-group privileges, whitey.
>
>> As I said, fuck their feelings.
>
> You and RH should have a good time ripping the world.

Not a reply calculated to spare either MCD's feelings or mine. That's
fine; I'm not complaining (a very thick skin is after all a prerequisite
for Usenet). But it does point up the hypocrisy of your position.

[Snidely]

On Thursday, Mack A. Damia yelped out that:

There's nothing humorous about your posts in this thread.

/dps

--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

We're watching The Ghost Writer at this moment. The literal French
translation would be Le nègre, but for some reason they just leave it
in English. Maybe they didn't want to offend the PTDs of this world who
are always on the lookout for something to offend them. I understand
that in Quebec they call it L'écrivain fantôme, but I don't think
they've used that title in France.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Anton Shepelev]

Steve Hayes:

> For example, the people who find "negress" offensive are

> probably the same ones who find "actress" and "lady doc-
> tor" offensive.

Cliffton Chenier had a song titled "Blues De Ma Negress",
but he was a creole who sang American blues in a mixture of
French and English, accompaniying himself on the accrodeon.

> "Negro" was regarded very positively by people like Marcus
> Garvey and W. du Bois.

Positively in what sense? Maybe inoffensively?

> In my experience, "Negroid" is only used by racists, or
> people describing the language of racists.

I thought that Negroid, Mongoloid, Europeoid were the stan-
dard names of races, quite scientific. They would sound of-
fensive when applied to an individual humanoid, though.

--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]

[Anton Shepelev]

Steve Hayes:

> I was rather unpleasantly surprised to discover the coro-

> ners use it to describe corpses in British TV shows like
> "Silent Witness".
>
> Georgians, Ossetians and Chechens are Caucasian.

It does sound strange to a Russian, but in English `cau-
casian' denotes a person of the white race. I doubt that
Georians, Osetians, and Chechens are caucasian in the proper
sense of the English word, although in Russian they are. It
is a standard term in photography, where the albido of human
skin is discussed with respect to exposure and the zone sys-
tem. It may not be easy to photograph a black musician in a
white suit, yet the studio photographers did wonders with
soft lighing when shooting black vocal groups groups such as
The Platters, The Checkers, The Clovers...

[Anton Shepelev]

I wrote:

> It may not be easy to photograph a black musician in a
> white suit, yet the studio photographers did wonders

Omit the definite article.

[Adam Funk]

On 2021-11-12, Anton Shepelev wrote:

> Steve Hayes:
>
>> I was rather unpleasantly surprised to discover the coro-
>> ners use it to describe corpses in British TV shows like
>> "Silent Witness".
>>
>> Georgians, Ossetians and Chechens are Caucasian.
>
> It does sound strange to a Russian, but in English `cau-
> casian' denotes a person of the white race. I doubt that
> Georians, Osetians, and Chechens are caucasian in the proper
> sense of the English word, although in Russian they are. It
> is a standard term in photography, where the albido of human
> skin is discussed with respect to exposure and the zone sys-
> tem. It may not be easy to photograph a black musician in a
> white suit, yet the studio photographers did wonders with
> soft lighing when shooting black vocal groups groups such as
> The Platters, The Checkers, The Clovers...

Good for those photographers.

Photography of dark-skinned people used to be a problem because the
reference cards used to calibrate equipment always had portraits of
white people (just one woman for a while).

<https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/shirley-cards/>

<https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/shirley-card-racial-photographic-bias/>



--
The love of money as a possession ... will be recognised for what it
is, a somewhat disgusting morbidity, one of those semi-criminal,
semi-pathological propensities which one hands over with a shudder to
the specialists in mental disease. ---J M Keynes

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 7:38:20 PM UTC-7, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 08:25:16 -0800, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
> > The dictionaries say that all these terms are "offensive". Aren't they
> > scientific?
> >
> > Do you know who Candace Owens is? She is a very attractive black woman
> > who spouts nonsense on Fox News. On Facebook yesterday, she said that
> > Biden is turning America into a communist country. Very doubtful that
> > she knows what "communism" is.
> >
> > I replied to her by writing, "It's time for Fox News's token Negress."
> > There is no doubt that she is.
> >
> > Facebook immediately suspended me for thirty days, and I appealed. This
> > morning I got a message from Facebook saying that they "got it wrong",
> > and my comment was back up and the suspension lifted.

> Whether they are "offensive" or not depends on the speaker/writer and
> hearer/reader. And I'm pretty certain they aren't "scientific" (whatever
> that means).
>
> For example, the people who find "negress" offensive are probably the
> same ones who find "actress" and "lady doctor" offensive.

Plus the ones who find "Negro" offensive, plus others, as I noted.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 2:26:27 AM UTC-7, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Steve Hayes:
> > For example, the people who find "negress" offensive are
> > probably the same ones who find "actress" and "lady doc-
> > tor" offensive.
>
> Cliffton Chenier had a song titled "Blues De Ma Negress",
> but he was a creole who sang American blues in a mixture of
> French and English, accompaniying himself on the accrodeon.

...

That was a long time ago.

> > In my experience, "Negroid" is only used by racists, or
> > people describing the language of racists.

> I thought that Negroid, Mongoloid, Europeoid were the stan-
> dard names of races, quite scientific.

I haven't seen "Europeoid". The word that goes with "Mongoloid",
"Negroid", and maybe "Australoid", "Capoid", etc., is "Caucasoid" (not
"Caucasian", /pace/ Mack--"Caucasian" goes with "Negro").

"Mongoloid" is generally not used in English because it was used
(due to racism) for people with Down's syndrome and because, I've
read, many Chinese and Korean people don't have favorable
associations with Mongolians.

Most anthropologists in the English-speaking world think that there's
no scientific classification of humanity into races, since human "races"
are closer to each other genetically than subspecies of other animals,
have much less genetic diversity compared to each other than within
themselves, and are not monophyletic, or at least the "black race" isn't.
Also variation in many characters is clinal (geographically gradual), so
dividing lines are arbitrary.

According to the Wikipedia article, Russian and Chinese anthropologists
are much more accepting of the concept of race.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)

> They would sound of-
> fensive when applied to an individual humanoid, though.

Quite.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 21:11:37 -0800, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Looking for a fight?

Crawl up my ass and fight for air.

Go away, little man. I am discussing "reality".

[Mack A. Damia]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 04:22:41 +0000, Richard Heathfield
<r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 11/11/2021 22:00, Snidely wrote:
>> Mack A. Damia pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:39:57 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> Right, she is a "public figure". She is a token black or Negress in
>>>>> the same way black newsmen readers on Fox are token blacks or Negroes.
>>>>> Fuck their feelings. Tell it like it is. She is a "token".
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> I'm not thinking of her feelings.  It's the opposite: Your comment
>>>> was pointless because she'll never know about it.  And the objection
>>>> is to "Negress", not to "token".
>>>
>>> Yes, blacks don't like it, although they use the word (Negro) to refer
>>> to themselves.
>>
>> In-group privileges, whitey.
>>
>>> As I said, fuck their feelings.
>>
>> You and RH should have a good time ripping the world.
>
>Not a reply calculated to spare either MCD's feelings or mine. That's
>fine; I'm not complaining (a very thick skin is after all a prerequisite
>for Usenet). But it does point up the hypocrisy of your position.

He doesn't know WTF he is talking about. He is looking for a fight.

Ignore him.

[Ken Blake]

On 11/11/2021 7:38 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 08:25:16 -0800, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>> The dictionaries say that all these terms are "offensive". Aren't they
>> scientific?
>>
>> Do you know who Candace Owens is? She is a very attractive black woman
>> who spouts nonsense on Fox News. On Facebook yesterday, she said that
>> Biden is turning America into a communist country. Very doubtful that
>> she knows what "communism" is.
>>
>> I replied to her by writing, "It's time for Fox News's token Negress."
>> There is no doubt that she is.
>>
>> Facebook immediately suspended me for thirty days, and I appealed. This
>> morning I got a message from Facebook saying that they "got it wrong",
>> and my comment was back up and the suspension lifted.
>
> Whether they are "offensive" or not depends on the speaker/writer and
> hearer/reader.

Probably true. I've never found "negro" to be offensive, but apparently
other do..

> And I'm pretty certain they aren't "scientific" (whatever
> that means).
>
> For example, the people who find "negress" offensive are probably the
> same ones who find "actress" and "lady doctor" offensive.

For some reason I don't really understand, I've always found "negress"
offensive. Regarding "actress" and "lady doctor," I don't find either
offensive, but I dislike both terms, along with "waitress" and probably
a few other similar terms I can't think of at the moment. As far as I'm
concerned, there's no need to add a suffix describing a person's sex to
any of those terms.

Speaking of "waitress," a term I dislike even more is "waitperson." The
term is most often used to differentiate female waiters (waitpersons)
from male waiters.

In fact, these days I've come to dislike the word "person" used in
almost any way. It almost invariably means "female." If someone were to
complain about "person drivers," everyone would know exactly what he he
was talking about.

Speaking of "actress" I especially dislike it when used by the Academy
Awards to separate male and female actors and give an award to the best
of each category. As far as I'm concerned, there should be a single
award given to the person of either sex who does the best job of acting.

> In my experience, "Negroid" is only used by racists, or people describing
> the language of racists.

I have no opinion on that since I almost never see the word used anywhere.


--
Ken

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 08:14:29 -0800

Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 04:22:41 +0000, Richard Heathfield
> <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 11/11/2021 22:00, Snidely wrote:
> >> Mack A. Damia pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
> >>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:39:57 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
> >>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Mack A.
> >>>> Damia wrote:
> >>

[]

> >>
> >>> As I said, fuck their feelings.
> >>

[]

>
> He doesn't know WTF he is talking about. He is looking for a fight.
>

[]
Heh, unlike you then.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 09:32:54 -0700, Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com>
wrote:

>Speaking of "actress" I especially dislike it when used by the Academy
>Awards to separate male and female actors and give an award to the best
>of each category. As far as I'm concerned, there should be a single
>award given to the person of either sex who does the best job of acting.
>

In my view, it's the Academy Awards that *should* have separate awards
for male and female actors. The are roles where a person of a
particular gender wouldn't be believable in the role.

If there is a single award for Best Actor, and there are five
nominees, there's a chance for a very good performance by a male or
female that to be bumped out because four or five of the nominees are
of the same gender.

I usually record the event, and skim through it for the good parts.
More fast-forwarding than watching, though.

--

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

[Quinn C]

* Anton Shepelev:

> Steve Hayes:
>
>> I was rather unpleasantly surprised to discover the coro-
>> ners use it to describe corpses in British TV shows like
>> "Silent Witness".
>>
>> Georgians, Ossetians and Chechens are Caucasian.
>
> It does sound strange to a Russian, but in English `cau-
> casian' denotes a person of the white race. I doubt that
> Georians, Osetians, and Chechens are caucasian in the proper
> sense of the English word, although in Russian they are.

The English word "Caucasian" also, no, primarily has the narrow meaning
"person from the Caucasus region". The other usage is originally
pars-pro-toto. Similarly, "Ethiopian" was at one point a term that could
be used for any African.

--
Queer people shuttle between worlds each time they look up from
their smartphones at the people gathered around the family table;
as they climb the steps from the underground nightclub back into
the nation-state. In one world, time quickens; in the other it
dawdles. Spending your life criss-crossing from world to world can
make you quite dizzy. - Mark Gevisser

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 9:38:20 PM UTC-5, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 08:25:16 -0800, Mack A. Damia wrote:

> > The dictionaries say that all these terms are "offensive". Aren't they
> > scientific?
> > Do you know who Candace Owens is? She is a very attractive black woman
> > who spouts nonsense on Fox News. On Facebook yesterday, she said that
> > Biden is turning America into a communist country. Very doubtful that
> > she knows what "communism" is.
> > I replied to her by writing, "It's time for Fox News's token Negress."
> > There is no doubt that she is.
> > Facebook immediately suspended me for thirty days, and I appealed. This
> > morning I got a message from Facebook saying that they "got it wrong",
> > and my comment was back up and the suspension lifted.
>
> Whether they are "offensive" or not depends on the speaker/writer and
> hearer/reader. And I'm pretty certain they aren't "scientific" (whatever
> that means).
>
> For example, the people who find "negress" offensive are probably the
> same ones who find "actress" and "lady doctor" offensive.

Hardly.

Do you really speak of "lady doctors" in SA? If there were a reason to
mention that in the US, it would be "woman doctor." But it's unlikely
that there would be.

> "Negro" was regarded very positively by people like Marcus Garvey and W.
> du Bois.

Well over a century ago.

We just observed the death of the man who brought your country into
the 20th century (at the very end of that century). Are you trying to hold
onto all the old language that went with race hatred?

> In my experience, "Negroid" is only used by racists, or people describing
> the language of racists.

So is "Negro," except in historical contexts.

"Negress" was never non-demeaning.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 10:08:49 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:

> I don't really know, but I thought "Negroid" was a scientific term,
> although is may be obsolete and offensive because blacks don't like
> it.

No; because it has no basis in scientific/anthropological fact, as has
been well known for decades. The last anthropologist to hold onto the
obsolete terminology -- in the 1950s -- was the ironically named Harvard
anthropologist Carleton Coon.

[Mack A. Damia]

Then you have a lot of work to do, and we don't expect to see much of
you in AUE.

Do a Google on races of the world and see how many mention "Negroid".

[Peter T. Daniels]

How many that were written in the 21st century? I realize that you believe
that science stopped after you got your bachelor's degree, but it didn't.

Usually when you get like this I inquire, Off your meds or or on the sauce?

[Tak To]

On 11/12/2021 12:43 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> * Anton Shepelev:
>
>> Steve Hayes:
>>
>>> I was rather unpleasantly surprised to discover the coro-
>>> ners use it to describe corpses in British TV shows like
>>> "Silent Witness".
>>>
>>> Georgians, Ossetians and Chechens are Caucasian.
>>
>> It does sound strange to a Russian, but in English `cau-
>> casian' denotes a person of the white race. I doubt that
>> Georians, Osetians, and Chechens are caucasian in the proper
>> sense of the English word, although in Russian they are.
>
> The English word "Caucasian" also, no, primarily has the narrow meaning
> "person from the Caucasus region". The other usage is originally
> pars-pro-toto. Similarly, "Ethiopian" was at one point a term that could
> be used for any African.

Or "Mongoloid" for East Asians or "Orientals".

I don't think that was entirely pars-pro-toto. There was a
folk theory of origin somewhere.

And that was not uncommon in taxonomy in general though. E.g.,
Japonica rice.

--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 10:42:32 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>So is "Negro," except in historical contexts.
>

Driving back to Chicago at the end of our honeymoon trip to Hilton
Head and to Florida in October, 1964, we stopped in a small-town
Georgia restaurant for a late-night coffee and snack.

A local at the counter turned to us asked "What you two doin' down
heah?". I ignored him, but then he asked "You heah to see how we
treatin' the nee-grows?".

We got up and left. I admit I was shaking. I wanted our car with our
Illinois license plates out of there as quickly as possible. We
didn't even finish our peach pie.

The Civil Rights Act was signed in July, 1964, and Freedom Riders from
the North were still remembered in that part of the country.

[Snidely]

Mack A. Damia scribbled something on Friday the 11/12/2021:

You aren't worth fighting with. You, like Bozo, are making worse the
thing you are objecting to, causing Fox supporters to join ranks and
become more steadfast in defending their side from the outside attacks.

/dps

--
The presence of this syntax results from the fact that SQLite is really
a Tcl extension that has escaped into the wild.
<http://www.sqlite.org/lang_expr.html>

[Mack A. Damia]

No point in responding to Daniels.

He is busy correcting all the web sites that say "Negroid" is one of
the world's races.

I was stationed at Charleston, South Carolina in the mid-1960s. I
heard a lot of nasty stuff about blacks, and it was usually with the N
word.

I do recall that "When the Heat of the Night" was released and showing
on base, you could not hear the dialogue because blacks were sitting
in the front rows hooting and hollering every time Sidney Poitier
scored a point.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 12:08:01 -0800

Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mack A. Damia scribbled something on Friday the 11/12/2021:
> > On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 21:11:37 -0800, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thursday, Mack A. Damia yelped out that:
> >>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:20:15 -0800, Snidely
> >>> <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Mack A. Damia formulated the question :
> >>>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:00:26 -0800, Snidely
> >>>>> <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Mack A. Damia pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
> >>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:39:57 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
> >>>>>>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Mack A.
> >>>>>>>> Damia wrote:

[]

at least snip a bit if you feel you really must talk to each other.

> > Go away, little man. I am discussing "reality".
>
> You aren't worth fighting with. You, like Bozo, are making worse the
> thing you are objecting to, causing Fox supporters to join ranks and
> become more steadfast in defending their side from the outside
> attacks.
>

So go further and stop responding.

[Anton Shepelev]

Ken Blake:

> For some reason I don't really understand, I've always found
> "negress" offensive. Regarding "actress" and "lady doctor," I
> don't find either offensive, but I dislike both terms, along with
> "waitress" and probably a few other similar terms I can't think
> of at the moment. As far as I'm concerned, there's no need to add
> a suffix describing a person's sex to any of those terms.

The real problem is that there is no suffix specifying the
masculine gender. Cf. the Ukrainian language/dialect, in which
the restrooms for men are labeled Чоловiки (humans) and for women
жiнки (women) -- an even louder screaming instance of the same
phenomenon. I have nothing against it in English, but rather
dislike the extreme form in Ukrainian. When I encountered it for
the first time, I thought to myself "What! They deny women
humanity?"

> Speaking of "waitress," a term I dislike even more is
> "waitperson." The term is most often used to differentiate female
> waiters (waitpersons) from male waiters.

I think `waitperson' is an emphatically (and thereofre unpleasantly)
gender-neutral term, whereas `waiter', as `actor', may be
masculine if used in contrast with `waitress', but otherwise is
gender-neutral. Do you remember the play on this distinction in
"Falling down"?

> In fact, these days I've come to dislike the word "person" used
> in almost any way. It almost invariably means "female." If
> someone were to complain about "person drivers," everyone would
> know exactly what he he was talking about.

Now that usage is nasty indeed. If you want to say it, pluck your
courage and do not euphemise.

> Speaking of "actress" I especially dislike it when used by the
> Academy Awards to separate male and female actors and give an
> award to the best of each category. As far as I'm concerned,
> there should be a single award given to the person of either sex
> who does the best job of acting.

Why? It doubles the number of bestowed awards. What do you think of
`leading lady'? I am much more disappointed with the new PC
requirements for Oscar nominations regarding the presence of women,
non-white people, disabled people, and people with
counter-biological sexual orientations. It disqualifies "Twelve
Angree Men", "Sahara" (1943), and (if memory serves) Tarantino's
"Reservoir dogs" -- good movies with casts of exclusively white men.

I am even more disappointed that people who changed their gender
from male to female can now participate in sports competitions with
genuine female sportsmen. Their physical advantage is almost the
same as of men over women, so change of gender is a way to a
successful career in physial sports. I think it is blatant cheating
at the expense of one's identity. Any such temptations to change
gender are dangerous because people will want to do it for the
wrong resons. "When competeing with men I always come second or
third. If only I could compete with women... Wait! There is way..."

[spains...@gmail.com]

Yup. My time in Towns County GA in 1971 was like that. "Hangman's
Cross", not a great memorial.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 12/11/2021 21:45, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 12:08:01 -0800
> Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mack A. Damia scribbled something on Friday the 11/12/2021:
>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 21:11:37 -0800, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, Mack A. Damia yelped out that:
>>>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:20:15 -0800, Snidely
>>>>> <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mack A. Damia formulated the question :
>>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:00:26 -0800, Snidely
>>>>>>> <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mack A. Damia pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:39:57 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>>>>>>>>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Mack A.
>>>>>>>>>> Damia wrote:
>
> []
>
> at least snip a bit if you feel you really must talk to each other.

Or they could try growing up.

> So go further and stop responding.

Like that, for example. Or they could take a leaf from Sybil Vimes's book.

"But Sybil had been brought up properly; if you can’t find something
nice to say about the food, find /something/ to be nice about. “These
are…really very interesting plates,” she said, dutifully."
--- /The Fifth Elephant/, Terry Pratchett

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 3:14:04 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 15:00:52 -0500, Tony Cooper
> <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 10:42:32 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
> ><gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>So is "Negro," except in historical contexts.
> >Driving back to Chicago at the end of our honeymoon trip to Hilton
> >Head and to Florida in October, 1964, we stopped in a small-town
> >Georgia restaurant for a late-night coffee and snack.
> >A local at the counter turned to us asked "What you two doin' down
> >heah?". I ignored him, but then he asked "You heah to see how we
> >treatin' the nee-grows?".
> >We got up and left. I admit I was shaking. I wanted our car with our
> >Illinois license plates out of there as quickly as possible. We
> >didn't even finish our peach pie.
> >The Civil Rights Act was signed in July, 1964, and Freedom Riders from
> >the North were still remembered in that part of the country.
>
> No point in responding to Daniels.
>
> He is busy correcting all the web sites that say "Negroid" is one of
> the world's races.

You shouldn't be consulting web sites that state there are "races."

> I was stationed at Charleston, South Carolina in the mid-1960s. I
> heard a lot of nasty stuff about blacks, and it was usually with the N
> word.
>
> I do recall that "When the Heat of the Night" was released and showing
> on base, you could not hear the dialogue because blacks were sitting
> in the front rows hooting and hollering every time Sidney Poitier
> scored a point.

I've already observed that some people like to live in the past.

The Vietnam war is _over_. Help _is_ available for your PTSD.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 22:05:23 +0000, Richard Heathfield
<r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 12/11/2021 21:45, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 12:08:01 -0800
>> Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Mack A. Damia scribbled something on Friday the 11/12/2021:
>>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 21:11:37 -0800, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, Mack A. Damia yelped out that:
>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:20:15 -0800, Snidely
>>>>>> <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mack A. Damia formulated the question :
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:00:26 -0800, Snidely
>>>>>>>> <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mack A. Damia pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:39:57 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>>>>>>>>>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-7, Mack A.
>>>>>>>>>>> Damia wrote:
>>
>> []
>>
>> at least snip a bit if you feel you really must talk to each other.
>
>Or they could try growing up.

\|||/
(o o)
,--oo0--------------.
| Please |
| Don't Feed |
| The TROLL |
'--------------oo0---
|__| |__|
|| ||
ooO Ooo

[Anton Shepelev]

Adam Funk to Anton Shepelev wrote:

> > It does sound strange to a Russian, but in English

> > `caucasian' denotes a person of the white race. I

> > doubt that Georians, Osetians, and Chechens are
> > caucasian in the proper sense of the English word,
> > although in Russian they are. It is a standard term in
> > photography, where the albido of human skin is

> > discussed with respect to exposure and the zone system.

> > It may not be easy to photograph a black musician
> > in a white suit, yet the studio photographers did
> > wonders with soft lighing when shooting black vocal
> > groups groups such as The Platters, The Checkers, The
> > Clovers...
>
> Good for those photographers.
>
> Photography of dark-skinned people used to be a problem
> because the reference cards used to calibrate equipment
> always had portraits of white people (just one woman for
> a while).
>
> <https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/shirley-cards/>
> <https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/shirley-card-racial-photographic-bias/

I had not known about the Shirley card. If it had had only a
set of reference colors, it would have been much more
general and efficient: one you get a set of key colors and
several values (brightnesses) right, everying else will
come out right thanks to the approximate linearity of film
and contolled characteristics photographic paper. Who on
Earth decided to put a female portrait on a reference card?
It should be strictly technical and indifferent to subject.
Attempts to get pleasant (rather than correct) skin tones
in isolation from the rest of the scene are cheating. The
only natural corrections are linear: color balance and
dynamic range.

Paper captures only part of film's density range and is
often rather non-linear, which calls for good judgement
while printing. Contrast is best controlled by choice of
photographic paper, whereas all the rest should be
calibrated for optometric precision (within possible
limits) and stay so. No, color balance does not affect that
precision in the sence that it preserves color
integrity (c) of the original by affecting all colors in the
same optically natural way.

I have never used a reference card, but have seen them in
pictures. They tend to contain much more reference points
than linear corrections can handle without redundancy, which
suggests non-linear transformations in the heart of your
digital camera or raw processor! Do not do that, for both
films and CCD matrices are quite linear mediums. If you
must destroy this precious linearity, do so late in the
post-processing.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 14:14:27 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

I was responding to Tony's experience in Georgia. Mind your own
business.

>The Vietnam war is _over_. Help _is_ available for your PTSD.

With Trump it was "bone spurs". What was your excuse for dodging the
draft? Mindlessness?

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 02:46:05 -0000 (UTC), Steve Hayes
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:43:36 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:
>
>>> Does anyone still use "Causasian" to mean "white"? For most of us it
>>> means people from a region centred on Georgia.
>>
>> Dunno about real life, but I think on TV shows American cops still use
>> it to describe suspects' appearance.
>
>I was rather unpleasantly surprised to discover the coroners use it to

>describe corpses in British TV shows like "Silent Witness".
>

I don't know whether real-life coroners in Britain use the word, but it
is possible that the writers of the TV scripts use it with US audiences
in mind.

>Georgians, Ossetians and Chechens are Caucasian.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

[Ross Clark]

On 13/11/2021 8:28 a.m., Tak To wrote:
> On 11/12/2021 12:43 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Anton Shepelev:
>>
>>> Steve Hayes:
>>>
>>>> I was rather unpleasantly surprised to discover the coro-
>>>> ners use it to describe corpses in British TV shows like
>>>> "Silent Witness".
>>>>
>>>> Georgians, Ossetians and Chechens are Caucasian.
>>>
>>> It does sound strange to a Russian, but in English `cau-
>>> casian' denotes a person of the white race. I doubt that
>>> Georians, Osetians, and Chechens are caucasian in the proper
>>> sense of the English word, although in Russian they are.
>>
>> The English word "Caucasian" also, no, primarily has the narrow meaning
>> "person from the Caucasus region". The other usage is originally
>> pars-pro-toto. Similarly, "Ethiopian" was at one point a term that could
>> be used for any African.
>
> Or "Mongoloid" for East Asians or "Orientals".
>
> I don't think that was entirely pars-pro-toto. There was a
> folk theory of origin somewhere.

The "Caucasian race" was first named by Meiners (1785) (Kaukasische
Stamm) and Blumenbach (1795). Apparently the women of the Caucasus
(Georgians, Circassians) were considered the most beautiful specimens
thereof. As for origins, there was that business about Noah's Ark
landing in Armenia....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

[Tony Cooper]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2021 00:58:15 +0300, Anton Shepelev
<antof...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ken Blake:
>
>> For some reason I don't really understand, I've always found
>> "negress" offensive. Regarding "actress" and "lady doctor," I
>> don't find either offensive, but I dislike both terms, along with
>> "waitress" and probably a few other similar terms I can't think
>> of at the moment. As far as I'm concerned, there's no need to add
>> a suffix describing a person's sex to any of those terms.
>
>The real problem is that there is no suffix specifying the
>masculine gender. Cf. the Ukrainian language/dialect, in which

>the restrooms for men are labeled ?????i?? (humans) and for women
>?i??? (women) -- an even louder screaming instance of the same

>phenomenon. I have nothing against it in English, but rather
>dislike the extreme form in Ukrainian. When I encountered it for
>the first time, I thought to myself "What! They deny women
>humanity?"
>
>> Speaking of "waitress," a term I dislike even more is
>> "waitperson." The term is most often used to differentiate female
>> waiters (waitpersons) from male waiters.
>
>I think `waitperson' is an emphatically (and thereofre unpleasantly)
>gender-neutral term, whereas `waiter', as `actor', may be
>masculine if used in contrast with `waitress', but otherwise is
>gender-neutral. Do you remember the play on this distinction in
>"Falling down"?
>
>> In fact, these days I've come to dislike the word "person" used
>> in almost any way. It almost invariably means "female." If
>> someone were to complain about "person drivers," everyone would
>> know exactly what he he was talking about.
>
>Now that usage is nasty indeed. If you want to say it, pluck your
>courage and do not euphemise.
>
>> Speaking of "actress" I especially dislike it when used by the
>> Academy Awards to separate male and female actors and give an
>> award to the best of each category. As far as I'm concerned,
>> there should be a single award given to the person of either sex
>> who does the best job of acting.
>
>Why? It doubles the number of bestowed awards.

I don't see that to be a problem for anyone.

>What do you think of 'leading lady'?

It's not a term that I've ever give thought to.

> I am much more disappointed with the new PC
>requirements for Oscar nominations regarding the presence of women,
>non-white people, disabled people, and people with
>counter-biological sexual orientations.

A point for having double the number of awards, then. More people
nominated.

>It disqualifies "Twelve
>Angree Men", "Sahara" (1943), and (if memory serves) Tarantino's
>"Reservoir dogs" -- good movies with casts of exclusively white men.

It doesn't disqualify any movie. It may reduce the odds of one being
nominated, though.

>I am even more disappointed that people who changed their gender
>from male to female can now participate in sports competitions with
>genuine female sportsmen. Their physical advantage is almost the
>same as of men over women, so change of gender is a way to a
>successful career in physial sports. I think it is blatant cheating
>at the expense of one's identity. Any such temptations to change
>gender are dangerous because people will want to do it for the
>wrong resons. "When competeing with men I always come second or
>third. If only I could compete with women... Wait! There is way..."

I can't say I'm comfortable with former men competing as women, but I
can't go along with thinking they do so to gain an advantage. I can't
imagine anyone going through that process to gain an advantage in
sports.

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 14:14:27 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

In 1967, when that movie came out, it's too bad he wasn't stationed in
the South. The blacks would have been made to sit in balcony behind
him if they were allowed in the theater.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Age?

[Mack A. Damia]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 22:20:36 -0500, Tony Cooper

Unsure, but do you mean Daniels?

This was a movie theater on base, so there was no overt discrimination
of any kind anywhere, although if you got with the wrong white crowd
you would hear plenty of racism.

They spoiled the film with their needless noise. I have experienced
it several times, and it is something I don't like about them. Many
if not most of them are unnecessarily loud people. If that make me a
racist, then so be it.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2021 07:24:57 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 5:32:41 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 14:14:27 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >The Vietnam war is _over_. Help _is_ available for your PTSD.
>>
>> With Trump it was "bone spurs". What was your excuse for dodging the
>> draft? Mindlessness?
>
>Age?

How old were you in 1972? Last year for the draft.

"Private Peter" is so appropriate.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Not that it's any of your business, but I had to go to some building
in the Loop for my draft physical in January 1973. (Which made no
sense.) It seemed an appropriate occasion for reading *Catcher in
the Rye* for the first time.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2021 08:27:56 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 11:16:15 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Nov 2021 07:24:57 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 5:32:41 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 14:14:27 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >> >The Vietnam war is _over_. Help _is_ available for your PTSD.
>> >> With Trump it was "bone spurs". What was your excuse for dodging the
>> >> draft? Mindlessness?
>> >Age?
>>
>> How old were you in 1972? Last year for the draft.
>
>Not that it's any of your business, but I had to go to some building
>in the Loop for my draft physical in January 1973. (Which made no
>sense.) It seemed an appropriate occasion for reading *Catcher in
>the Rye* for the first time.

Why did you fail your draft physical? Brain spurs?

[Tony Cooper]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2021 08:27:56 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 11:16:15 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Nov 2021 07:24:57 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 5:32:41 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 14:14:27 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >> >The Vietnam war is _over_. Help _is_ available for your PTSD.
>> >> With Trump it was "bone spurs". What was your excuse for dodging the
>> >> draft? Mindlessness?
>> >Age?
>>
>> How old were you in 1972? Last year for the draft.
>
>Not that it's any of your business, but I had to go to some building
>in the Loop for my draft physical in January 1973. (Which made no
>sense.) It seemed an appropriate occasion for reading *Catcher in
>the Rye* for the first time.

Probably the same building where I went for my draft physical, but in
1961.

Interesting day. Nothing like standing in a row of men where the row
of men in front of me - like all of us - were naked from the waist
down. A doctor, or some sort of medical person, walked behind us,
instructed us to "bend over and spread 'em", and did a close
examination. Not a pretty view.

When the inspection was over, and underpants and trousers restored,
the view changed to some "tighty-whitey" underpants that weren't all
white. Some ranged from dirty grey to brown-streaked.

A second person walked the line and inserted something under the
arches of each person's feet to determine flat-footedness.

Then there was a hearing test in which the primary test was if you
looked up when the tester entered the booth and called your name.

Blood was drawn (finger prick, though) at one point, and two testees
passed out and fell to the floor. Why is it that the big,
burly-looking boys are always the ones to faint?

The last test was the "IQ" test. A sergeant addressed the seated
group saying "There is a pencil on the table in front of you. Pick up
the pencil. This is a rubber end (he said pointing to eraser) and
this is the writing end (he said pointing to the lead). You will mark
your paper with the pointed end."

He also instucted us to write our name, last name first, on the top
right of the paper. He helpfully showed a few which was the right
side of the top of the paper.

All I remember about what was on the "IQ" test was a series of
drawings of objects like a screwdriver, a hammer, a pineapple, and a
flower. We had to circle the two that were similar in use. (I did
pass)

[Ken Blake]

On 11/12/2021 2:58 PM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Ken Blake:

>> Speaking of "actress" I especially dislike it when used by the
>> Academy Awards to separate male and female actors and give an
>> award to the best of each category. As far as I'm concerned,
>> there should be a single award given to the person of either sex
>> who does the best job of acting.
>
> Why? It doubles the number of bestowed awards.

If doubling it is good, double it again by having separate awards for

Best White Male Actor

Best White Female Actor

Best Black Male Actor

Best Black Female Actor.

That makes just as much sense, as far as I'm concerned.

That's just a start. You can add even more awards for adding categories
for Asian, Blond(e), Brunette, Under 21, Over 21, Over 50, Over 80,
French, Italian, German, Chinese, Japanese, etc.

Keep that up long enough and every actor could get an award.

--
Ken

[Ken Blake]

I pressed "Send" too soon. I meant to add that I'm similarly against
separate titles for Chess Grandmasters and Woman Grandmasters, and
separate titles for Chess Champion of XXXX and Chess Women's Champion of
XXXX. It's a rare woman who plays chess nearly as well as the best men
players, but remove that separation, require women to play against men,
and in my opinion any difference would soon vanish.

There are some athletic skills that require physical strength, such as
running, weight lifting, tennis, etc. and it make sense for those to
have separate categories for men and women, but in my opinion it makes
no sense to have separate categories in mental endeavors like acting,
chess, bridge, etc.


--
Ken

[Mack A. Damia]

The AFQT scores correlate very closely to IQ tests.

Scored as a percentile rating from 1 to 99, scores are grouped. I
scored a 92 that placed me by one point into group 2.

That score follows you around while to are in the military. It opens
up or closes job opportunities.

[Mack A. Damia]

AFQT Categories:
Category I - 93-99.
Category II - 65-92.
Category IIIA - 50-64.
Category IIIB - 31-49.
Category IVA - 21-30.
Category IVB - 16-20.
Category IVC - 10-15.
Category V - 0-9.