Fence over manhole cover
Freda Perkins
and part of my front garden has been in very poor condition since I moved
into my house six years ago. No doubt it was in poor condition for many
years before I moved here in south east England. I would estimate it at more
than 20 years old.
For the past few years it has been falling down in the direction of my side.
The base has long since rotted away and there can be no doubt that it has
been pushed further towards my side due to the number of bushes growing on
the neighbours side behind it.
About a year ago when I cut some bushes down on my side of this fence I
became aware of what was either a rectangular concrete block, like a paving
stone, or possibly a manhole cover for the drains. It was difficult to tell
exactly what it was because of the amount of soil and other debris on it but
I noticed that the fence was resting on it. I suspected that someone may
have lifted the fence onto it to stop the base rotting any further but
couldn't be sure. I thought no more of it.
This morning the doorbell rang at roughly 9 AM. I was still waking up and
because the caller rang only once and wasn't persistent (like the post can
be with a parcel) I didn't get up to answer. I thought it was probably
Jehovas witnesses or someone selling something.
At roughly 11 AM I became aware of some unusual banging noises and looked
outside through the front window.
The remains of the old fence was piled on my front lawn and it was obvious
that they were finally replacing the old fence. I went outside and said good
morning and looked for the concrete block but there did not appear to be
anything there. I indicated to the workman that I thought there was a
concrete block or a drain cover there but he said he had got the concrete up
and I couldn't see any sign of it. It looked like bare ground. The workman
indicated that he was sorry for the mess and would clear it up soon. I was
not bothered by this and told him that the mess was fine as long as it was
cleared up when they had finished. I then went back inside the house
believing that the concrete block couldn't have been a drain cover after all
and was now gone.
At roughly midday I looked outside again and there was no-one working on my
side of the fence. Thinking that they had probably gone to lunch I went
outside to have a closer look. It then became obvious that what I had seen
earlier was the drain cover under enough dirt to hide it. The base of the
fence has been placed two inches over the long side of a rectangular
concrete manhole cover, thus preventing it being removed should there be a
problem with the drains in the future.
I wasn't happy with this and called through the fence to see if the
neighbour was there. They were. There then followed much exchange, which
could have been heated, but I'm old enough to know how to remain calm and
polite even if the other person appears upset or aggressive.
I indicated that I thought it was illegal to put a fence over a manhole
cover, even though I'm not sure whether or not it is.
The neighbour was obviously unhappy, probably because they had already
concreted the posts in and put the frame up and it would obviously be
difficult to move it now.
The workman then reappeared and said that he had put the new fence in along
the same boundary as the existing one.
I don't believe that the original fence when it was put in 20 or more years
ago could have been over the manhole cover. It believe it has crept further
towards my side due to its rotting condition and being pushed by bushes on
the neighbours side.
I told the workman that I thought he should have put the fence three inches
back so that it would not be over the manhole cover.
The workman indicated that perhaps he could screw instead of nail the base
of the fence on so that it could be removed to facilitate access to the
drain. I wasn't very happy with this.
I then wrote and put the following letter through the neighbours front door.
There did not appear to be anyone to speak to when I delivered it and no
further work has been done on the fence since. Only the posts and frame is
up.
"You appear to have located your new fence over a manhole cover which could
have to be opened in the future for drain inspection and/or repairs. Could
you please demonstrate to me that it is possible to remove the cover and
access the drain without difficulty. I will have no further complaint once
you have demonstrated that the drain can be easily accessed without
obstruction."
There has been no sign of work on the fence since I delivered the letter at
roughly 1 PM Saturday 7th May 2005.
What should I do if they complete the fence in such a way that the manhole
cover cannot be opened?
Should I insist that the fence is moved a few inches back so that it is not
obstructing the cover at all?
There are plans that show the boundary but it is not very clear to me
exactly where the boundary line should be when you want to be accurate to
within three inches. It does however look like the neighbour has got it
wrong because the plans show a line curved towards their property but they
have put a straight fence frame in.
I am not very concerned about three inches of difference in the boundary; I
am only concerned about access to the drains should it be necessary in
future. I know that there are pipes from my house going into that drain
because pipes going in that direction were discovered by the survey I had
done six years ago, but I did not know for certain that there was a manhole
cover there until today because it was all covered by bushes, soil and
rotting fence.
Freda
FT
When you need to access the drain, get a saw.
"Freda Perkins" <n...@way.none> wrote in message
news:kSbfe.22514$Y46...@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
Freda Perkins
news:9gnq7151devvab29q...@4ax.com...
> >The workman indicated that perhaps he could screw instead of nail the
base
> >of the fence on so that it could be removed to facilitate access to the
> >drain. I wasn't very happy with this.
>
> If it allows you to get at the cover seems ok to me.
This is probably how it will turn out, but we are talking about a concrete
cover a couple of inches thick and a wooden fence base about 6 inches wide
resting directly on the cover.
I'd like to be sure that I don't have to go cutting a neighbour's fence down
just to access the drains.
Assuming that access is not obstructed once the base of the fence is taken
off then that will be ok.
Freda
robert
"FT" <f...@t.net> wrote in message news:d5kcri$5tf$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
Wouldn't want to live next to you. When we built a fence our neighbours came
round and offered to pay half. We politely declined.
If the time ever comes that you need to access the drain you'll have no
option but to move the fence-the neighbour couldn't argue this at all and i
imagine that this would be far less hassle. Worst case scenario the fence
ends up broken and they dont fix it. You cant complain because you didn't
pay for it
Freda Perkins
news:bxlfe.22064$YF5....@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>
> "FT" <f...@t.net> wrote in message news:d5kcri$5tf$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > For gods sake get a life.
> > When you need to access the drain, get a saw.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Freda Perkins" <n...@way.none> wrote in message
> > news:kSbfe.22514$Y46...@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>>
came
> round and offered to pay half. We politely declined.
When I moved here all fencing with the frame on my side was replaced at my
expense, including a piece backing on to the neighbour which is probably
theirs not mine. They never offered to pay anything but they did grumbly
insist that all fences were replaced with exact same boundaries. The only
piece that wasn't touched was the piece over the drain because it was clear
that this was theirs and it's mostly hidden by bushes. I can see no reason
to want to contribute to the cost of the fence over the drain as well as all
other fence between us. The fence over the drain is less than 20% of what
was replaced when I moved in.
> If the time ever comes that you need to access the drain you'll have no
> option but to move the fence-the neighbour couldn't argue this at all and
i
> imagine that this would be far less hassle.
I'm not sure it would. I think they'd have a fit at the sight of someone
interfering with their new fence.
> Worst case scenario the fence
> ends up broken and they dont fix it. You cant complain because you didn't
> pay for it
But they could complain to me for breaking it, could they not?
Freda
>
>
steve robinson
"Freda Perkins" <n...@way.none> wrote in message
no they cant if you are accessing a drain /manhole cover then you are
entitled to remove the panel as long as you exercise reasonable care then
there is squat they can do
if you wanted to be a real arsehole you could of course ask them to remove
the panel as you require access
Any way what type of fencing is it , if its panel fencing slipped in the
grooves of concrete posts then all you do is lift up the panel , if its a
timber post then stick a couple of tee hinges on it and a bolt top and
bottom then swing it open if you do need access real simple , saves all the
hassle with the neighbours offer to pay for them if your that worried
£12.00 tops
If you give them a hard time they will surely retaliate be a nice
neighbour
Freda Perkins
news:%uofe.27615$G8.2...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
No it's all timber.
> , if its a
> timber post then stick a couple of tee hinges on it and a bolt top and
> bottom then swing it open if you do need access real simple , saves all
the
> hassle with the neighbours offer to pay for them if your that worried
> £12.00 tops
LOL you need to see it.
If it really were only £12.00 to turn it into something that could be swung
open then I would be glad to pay for it.
But I can't see anyone agreeing to it being openable as that was discussed
when I replaced the rest of the fence years ago and they would not have any
doors in it.
>
> If you give them a hard time they will surely retaliate be a nice
> neighbour
I am a nice neighbour.
The possibility of retaliation is always a concern when dealing with
neighbours.
If they are going to do it in a way which allows access to the drain then I
will thank them for that.
Freda
>
>
Blueyonder
"Freda Perkins" <n...@way.none> wrote in message
news:kSbfe.22514$Y46...@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
Sponge Bob
"Blueyonder" <cgib...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9qrfe.45452$Cq2....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Sounds to me like Freda took a partial roasting here - can't understand why,
seems she has been a good neighbour in the past, even paying for replacement
fencing which her neighbours should have purchased. Why should she ignore
what is happening - sounds like her neighbours would simply shrug their
shoulders and stick two fingers up in five years time when access to the
drain is needed - at least she is bringing it to their attention now, which
is a good thing for all parties concerned isn't it?
Bob
Freda Perkins
news:427e54ee$0$289$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
>
> "Blueyonder" <cgib...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:9qrfe.45452$Cq2....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > This story must be longer than the latest Harry Potter book! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > "Freda Perkins" <n...@way.none> wrote in message
> > news:kSbfe.22514$Y46...@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
> > > The fence which runs along the boundary between my neighbours back
The fence is now complete and they have screwed the base on along the
manhole cover instead of nailing it.
I plan to send the following letter.
Any comments?
I wonder what the situation would be if the neighbour moves and new
neighbours move in.
Dear Neighbour,
Thank you for arranging to make the base of the fence removable where it
crosses the manhole cover.
I would also like to thank you for clearing the dirt from the manhole cover
on my side.
I would also like to apologise if I appeared a little upset yesterday.
Since no test has been done to check that the cover can be successfully
opened I will have to assume that it can be opened if the base of the fence
was taken off. Should this prove not to be the case in the future (perhaps
because the base has rotted and the fence has dropped), and should access to
the drain be required in the future, then I believe it would be your
responsibility to partially take the fence down to allow access.
Freda
Steve Walker
> I plan to send the following letter.
> Any comments?
Drop the final para.