Recording Phone conversations
Lurker
reminder to yourself), you are obliged to inform the party you are calling
that the conversation is recorded.
I note that most large companies have a general disclaimer that calls may be
monitored/recorded for training purposes etc.
What I wonder, is does this comply with the relevant acts if such recordings
were to be used in court evidence, or if I simply objected to having my call
recorded?
If it does comply, is there anything to stop me from saying all or any phone
calls may be recorded, when I fill in forms or give my phone number in any
written form, without having to say at the time of the call that it is being
recorded? Nobody amongst all these firms tell me that the call is being
recorded at the time of the conversation, and I am curious as to the legal
position.
Jennie
Peter Parry
<CSYEMH...@spammotel.com> wrote:
>What I wonder, is does this comply with the relevant acts if such recordings
>were to be used in court evidence, or if I simply objected to having my call
>recorded?
If you object to having your call monitored or recorded you had
better not use the phone :-).
> is there anything to stop me from saying all or any phone
>calls may be recorded, when I fill in forms or give my phone number in any
>written form, without having to say at the time of the call that it is being
>recorded?
You (as a private individual) are governed by the Regulation of
Investigatory Powers Act 2000
www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/20000023.htm. As long as the call is
for your own purposes and will not be divulged to others you need not
mention the call is being recorded. RIPA makes no provision for
general announcements of the sort you propose.
>Nobody amongst all these firms tell me that the call is being
>recorded at the time of the conversation, and I am curious as to the legal
>position.
Businesses are governed by Statutory Instrument 2000 No. 2699
The Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice) (Interception of
Communications) Regulations 2000.
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002699.htm This give them
authority to monitor and in some cases record messages without
notification for specific purposes.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
Lurker
> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:11:40 +0100, "Lurker"
> <CSYEMH...@spammotel.com> wrote:
>
>
>> What I wonder, is does this comply with the relevant acts if such
>> recordings were to be used in court evidence, or if I simply
>> objected to having my call recorded?
>
> If you object to having your call monitored or recorded you had
> better not use the phone :-).
:(
Actually I use the phone as little as possible. As an ordinary law- abiding
individual, there is nothing I have to say that is of earth shattering
importance. Nevertheless, it does sort of bug me (pardon the pun) that the
gas company, my housing association, the bank, the local DIY store etc can
all lawfully record what I say to them for "monitoring or quality control"
without my *express* consent. I was brought up in the pre- "big brother"
era, and I suppose its something I have to come to terms with, - but I
definitely don't like it.! :(
>
>> is there anything to stop me from saying all or any phone
>> calls may be recorded, when I fill in forms or give my phone number
>> in any written form, without having to say at the time of the call
>> that it is being recorded?
>
> You (as a private individual) are governed by the Regulation of
> Investigatory Powers Act 2000
> www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/20000023.htm. As long as the call is
> for your own purposes and will not be divulged to others you need not
> mention the call is being recorded. RIPA makes no provision for
> general announcements of the sort you propose.
Thanks for the link, but it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. My
eyes glaze over when confronted with statutory instruments. :)
If I have your summary right, I can record the conversation with (say) the
gas company, without telling 'em, so long as I don't then play the tape to
my next door neighbour for example?
Supposing, without disclosure of the recording, I rang the gas company. They
subsequently deny having said something, would I be able to respond with
"Aha but you did, I have it on tape" ? Or would I only be able to do that if
I first disclosed that the conversation was being recorded?
>> Nobody amongst all these firms tell me that the call is being
>> recorded at the time of the conversation, and I am curious as to the
>> legal position.
>
> Businesses are governed by Statutory Instrument 2000 No. 2699
> The Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice) (Interception of
> Communications) Regulations 2000.
> http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002699.htm This give them
> authority to monitor and in some cases record messages without
> notification for specific purposes.
Thanks for your help and any clarification.
Lurker
suspicious minds
"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:tmtpm0d7qddi5p183...@4ax.com...
Not right, they must notify a user. Read the last but one pragraph of the
explanation.
EXPLANATORY NOTE
(This note is not part of the Regulations)
These Regulations authorise certain interceptions of telecommunication
communications which would otherwise be prohibited by section 1 of the
Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. To the extent that the
interceptions are also prohibited by Article 5.1 of Directive 97/66/EC, the
authorisation does not exceed that permitted by Articles 5.2 and 14.1 of the
Directive.
The interception has to be by or with the consent of a person carrying on a
business (which includes the activities of government departments, public
authorities and others exercising statutory functions) for purposes relevant
to that person's business and using that business's own telecommunication
system.
Interceptions are authorised for -
monitoring or recording communications -
to establish the existence of facts, to ascertain compliance with
regulatory or self-regulatory practices or procedures or to ascertain or
demonstrate standards which are or ought to be achieved (quality control and
training),
in the interests of national security (in which case only certain
specified public officials may make the interception),
to prevent or detect crime,
to investigate or detect unauthorised use of telecommunication
systems or,
to secure, or as an inherent part of, effective system operation;
monitoring received communications to determine whether they are business
or personal communications;
monitoring communications made to anonymous telephone helplines.
Interceptions are authorised only if the controller of the
telecommunications system on which they are effected has made all reasonable
efforts to inform potential users that interceptions may be made.
The Regulations do not authorise interceptions to which the persons making
and receiving the communications have consented: they are not prohibited by
the Act.
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002699.htm
@BB
has always been of interest to me, and I probably share your thoughts on the
matter, To illustrate my point note what happened to me when at work I
began to be treated in an unfair way, in as much that my Employer was
attemting to change my contract unilaterally. I was called to his office and
his secretary was also present, I was one step ahead of both of them and
took a small pocket recorder with me, as I had not been given the chance to
have a rep' with me. I had almost forgotten about the tape when some months
later I took my Employer to tribunal, and as such we sent our versions of
the case to each other before the date of the hearing. One of his points
was that we had met in his office, on that day and that he had put a certain
question to me, and that I had replied in a manner that would, if it had
been true, given his case some weight. his secretary also on oath, agreed
that this had happened. I had the tape with me at the hearing but had not
mentioned it in the documents given to his Solicitor, so legally they were
unusable. That said I was, if necessary going to play the tape, just to see
their faces, not the right thing to do at the hearing, but better I thought
than telling lies. but because, the lie had been made up after, to suit
their case, it was easy to expose it for what it was, his secretary had
taken a notebook into the meeting on that day, and held it in her hand all
the time, not writing anything in it for the five minute meeting, nothing
much was said, it was eventless, ( I defended myself ) and I simply asked
her at the hearing if she made any notes during the meeting, she correctly
answered " no " Her face turned red, I asked her if she had made any notes
of that very important statement, that I was alleged to have made, at this
point it dawned on her that any secretary with half a brain would warrant
the sack for not taking down such an important note, but because she was not
prepared and she had just said, no notes were taken by her, at the meeting,
she said yes, afterwards, after the meeting, she was now looking very
red indeed, embarrassingly so, such simple questions, but of course only
three people in that room knew the real truth, and the truth at that moment
in time was that they were now doing it again in court, and it was not
quite as cosy as sitting in the safety of their own office thinking of what
would sound good, although made up, on their statement. You had to be
there to feel and see the panic in her eyes, her whole body looked awkward
as she looked over to her boss and his solicitor for some sort of help or
guidance, I followed her gaze, they would not even look in her direction,
they had abandoned her. I actually felt sorry for her, but only for a
moment, I only had to think of the torment they had put me through, and the
lies done behind my back, " have you that note with you today " I asked
her, it was all over really, she mumbled that it would have been with
the papers she sent to their solicitor, he quickly covered his back by
saying to the panel that he had not heard of, or recieved any such note in
documents sent to him. Justice was done, I won hands down.
Now if you are the same as me you will wonder why you have to warn people
that while you talk, they must not make up anything at a later date that did
not happen because you suspect they might, and so are going to tape the
meeting, why should such people have the rope that they will hang themselves
with taken away to be put around anothers poor neck. and I think my
experience goes some way to highlight this. Anyone should be able to produce
sound truthfull evidence such as this, in as much that plain clothes police
officers ( quite rightly ) don't give criminals warnings as they gather
evidence.
"Lurker" <CSYEMH...@spammotel.com> wrote in message
news:2t3o8oF...@uni-berlin.de...
>I do know that if you record a phone conversation (other than as a private
> reminder to yourself), you are obliged to inform the party you are calling
> that the conversation is recorded.
>
Peter Parry
<me-and-...@virgin.net> wrote:
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote
>Not right, they must notify a user. Read the last but one pragraph of the
>explanation.
"monitoring communications made to anonymous telephone helplines."??
I don't think most calls to companies come under that heading.
Peter Parry
<CSYEMH...@spammotel.com> wrote:
>Supposing, without disclosure of the recording, I rang the gas company. They
>subsequently deny having said something, would I be able to respond with
>"Aha but you did, I have it on tape" ?
Yes. And as the Gas company were participants in the earlier
conversation you can reveal its contents to them if you wished.
> Or would I only be able to do that if
>I first disclosed that the conversation was being recorded?
It would not be necessary to do that.