A-Level Computing.
David Varnham
I'm about to start A-Level computing in the coming months having just
finished the GCSE's. Basically all I really want to know is to what
standard you are expected to be able to program? We will be using Pascal
which is good for me as I have been using Delphi for about 2 years now and
am very competent. Does anyone have any sample code that demonstrates the
level you are expected to be at.
Thanks,
--
David Varnham
Y3K Software - http://www.itdirect.com/y3k/
ICQ: 12995010 - dav...@dial.pipex.com
Matthew M. Huntbach
> I'm about to start A-Level computing in the coming months having just
> finished the GCSE's. Basically all I really want to know is to what
> standard you are expected to be able to program? We will be using Pascal
> which is good for me as I have been using Delphi for about 2 years now and
> am very competent.
The fact that it uses Pascal shows how amazingly out of date the syllabus is.
Still, it's nice to see a Computing syllabus which involves programming.
It is, apparently, possible to get a Computing A-level without doing any
programming whatsoever.
Matthew Huntbach
Sunil Rao
> I'm about to start A-Level computing in the coming months having just
> finished the GCSE's. Basically all I really want to know is to what
> standard you are expected to be able to program?
In A-level Computing, thoguht the syllabus says you are expected to be
at a certain standard, in reality things tend to be different.
> We will be using Pascal
> which is good for me as I have been using Delphi for about 2 years now and
> am very competent. Does anyone have any sample code that demonstrates the
> level you are expected to be at.
Nothing complicated, certainly. You'd probably breeze through it. The
A-level is particularly piss-poor preparation for a degree in Computer
Science, though.
--
{ Sunil Rao }
"...certainly no beast has essayed the boundless, infinitely
inventive art of human hatred. No beast can match its range and
power." - Arundhati Roy, "The God of Small Things", 1997.
David Varnham
Pascal to be a good starting language as it is easier to grasp than C++/Java
and is not so "lapse" as BASIC/VB. I personally prefer Pascal as it does
force you to code "properly", well, moreso than BASIC.
I understand you are invloved with a computing faculty, which language do
you prefer to teach?
--
David Varnham
Y3K Software - http://www.itdirect.com/y3k/
ICQ: 12995010 - dav...@dial.pipex.com
Matthew M. Huntbach <m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:7nmhqv$eds$7...@beta.qmw.ac.uk...
> David Varnham (y3kso...@y3ksoftware.screaming.net) wrote:
>
> > I'm about to start A-Level computing in the coming months having just
> > finished the GCSE's. Basically all I really want to know is to what
> > standard you are expected to be able to program? We will be using
Pascal
> > which is good for me as I have been using Delphi for about 2 years now
and
> > am very competent.
>
Matthew M. Huntbach
> Matthew M. Huntbach <m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> wrote in message
> > > I'm about to start A-Level computing in the coming months having just
> > > finished the GCSE's. Basically all I really want to know is to what
> > > standard you are expected to be able to program? We will be using
> > > Pascal which is good for me as I have been using Delphi for about 2
> > > years now and am very competent.
> > The fact that it uses Pascal shows how amazingly out of date the syllabus
> > is
> Which language do you feel would be more appropriate? I would have thought
> Pascal to be a good starting language as it is easier to grasp than C++/Java
> and is not so "lapse" as BASIC/VB. I personally prefer Pascal as it does
> force you to code "properly", well, moreso than BASIC.
Certainly not BASIC. BASIC is 1960s computing - before people got the idea
of structured programming. Pascal is 1970s computing - structured, but
without the concepts of modules and objects which have been developed
since. Pascal was what I was taught when I did my degree in Computing 20
years ago, but I do not know of any university that uses it now. Nearly
every university Computer Science department I know of is either using Java
or is planning to switch to Java.
> I understand you are invloved with a computing faculty, which language do
> you prefer to teach?
Java. Actually, Java's by no means perfect, but as it's come into fairly
widespread use recently, in industry as well as academia, and as there is
a huge amount of support material available for it, I'd say it's better to
use Java than some language which I may in theory regard as superior but
which is know only to a few academics.
I would like to see A-level Computing show some signs of recogising the
object-oriented revolution which has completely changed the face of
computer programming since the days when Pascal was state-of-the-art.
I do not believe it is impossible to start learning to program in a
subset of Java, and I feel it would be better to do that and thus take
an object-oriented approach from the start.
Matthew Huntbach
Sunil Rao
> Nearly
> every university Computer Science department I know of is either using Java
> or is planning to switch to Java.
Imperial starts out teaching functional programming Haskell to Computing
undergrads, and then they move to Turing (a procedural teaching language
which supports modules). Turing has an object-oriented extension, OOT,
which is introduced in the second term with Prolog.
For Information Systems Engineers (Computing and Electronics), the order
goes Turing, then Haskell, but our Turing lab exercises tend to be
longer and more involved.
I'm given to understand both of our groups get introduced to C and Java
in the second year (Comp2 also do some SQL), though many of us on ISE
(those who didn't know it already) had to learn some C fairly quickly
for some of the first-year summer-term projects. At least enough to
realise it isn't so scary after all... :)
> I would like to see A-level Computing show some signs of recogising the
> object-oriented revolution which has completely changed the face of
> computer programming since the days when Pascal was state-of-the-art.
I can see there being real trouble in finding suitable teachers, though.
Matthew M. Huntbach
> "Matthew M. Huntbach" wrote:
> > Nearly every university Computer Science department I know of is either
> > using Java or is planning to switch to Java.
> Imperial starts out teaching functional programming Haskell to Computing
> undergrads, and then they move to Turing (a procedural teaching language
> which supports modules). Turing has an object-oriented extension, OOT,
> which is introduced in the second term with Prolog.
Sure. It's a very common pattern (we at QMW do it as well) to start with
a functional (sometimes a logic) language and use it alongside the
introductory imperative language.
The use of Turing at Imperial is an example of what I mentioned - teaching
in a language which is very nice theoretically and for teaching purposes
but is not used outside academia. This was more common in the past - in fact
you could say that Pascal was such an academics-only language - but in most
places this approach has been dropped. One reason for this is that more
standard languages have a lot more available in support material than
obscure academic languages. But probably the main reason is that there
has been a strong student reaction against academics-only languages -
students want to start off in a programming language they know they are
still going to be using after they graduate and get jobs as programmers.
Whether this is a good or bad thing doesn't matter, it's a fact. If you
teach in Prof Whizzo's wonderful academic language, and the university down
the road teaches in C++, you'll find all the best students are going to
the university down the road because it's C++ they see in the job ads.
While Prof Whizzo's language may be really the best thing to teach in,
practical competition means you'll be strongly tempted to switch to teaching
in C++.
Imperial can probably get away with not doing this. Such is the reputation
of Imperial that students will always put it in preference to other places,
and will accept "this is the top place, so whatever they're teaching must be
good". At other institutions, however, students are not so trusting, and we
know that using "the language they use in industry" will be a strong selling
point in the cutthroat competition to attract the best students.
Java is in some ways a compromise. It still has a lot of faults, but it has
got rid of much of the messiness that made C++ such an awkward language.
It has a huge library of graphics and other stuff - you are not going to
find anything like that in a home-grown language. There is a big range of
textbooks using the language. The hype surrounding the language has meant
students want to study it and believe it will be useful, even though I'd say
it's still not clear whether industry will switch to it in a big way.
> I'm given to understand both of our groups get introduced to C and Java
> in the second year (Comp2 also do some SQL), though many of us on ISE
> (those who didn't know it already) had to learn some C fairly quickly
> for some of the first-year summer-term projects. At least enough to
> realise it isn't so scary after all... :)
What, no Prolog? At Imperial, of all places, you'd expect there to be some
Prolog.
> > I would like to see A-level Computing show some signs of recogising the
> > object-oriented revolution which has completely changed the face of
> > computer programming since the days when Pascal was state-of-the-art.
> I can see there being real trouble in finding suitable teachers, though.
Sure. But that's the problem with A-level Computing. Things in the computing
world seem to filter through very slowly to the A-level world, with the
result that the teachers and textbooks for A-level Computing just are years
out of date.
Matthew Huntbach
Sunil Rao
> What, no Prolog? At Imperial, of all places, you'd expect there to be some
> Prolog.
I think there's a third-year option (they keep changing), but a good
half of the ISE course is Electronics, so we miss out on the more
theoretical aspects of the Computing course. So we don't do Reasoning or
Logic or Prolog or Z in the first two years. But then they don't get to
do Circuit Analysis or Control Systems or Communications. :)
Jonathan Dalton
computing
>world seem to filter through very slowly to the A-level world, with the
>result that the teachers and textbooks for A-level Computing just are years
>out of date.
I agree with that. I studied CS A level for 3 weeks at the beginning of year
12 under the delusion that somehow I'd learn something useful. The textbooks
were still going on about DOS commands, and a quick flick through to the
'advanced' stuff in the book revealed that the world's most useful language,
Pascal, was still there in force. And the internet got a fith of a page
dedicated to it out of a 400 page book, which just about somes up how
useless the A level course is.
jon
Niall Saville
wrote:
>The fact that it uses Pascal shows how amazingly out of date the syllabus is.
As an aside, you *have* heard of Delphi?
--
Niall Saville, Churchill College, Cambridge. Email bigfoot, no .!
The CU Yogurt Appreciation Society will rise again! Yogsoc lives!
Climbing. Hypnosis. Rowing. (Sometime) rugby. Alcohol. Depression
(The right to do whatever I like and like everything but myself.)
Robert Martin
just realised I have only liked three universities so far; Oxford, Durham
and Lancaster, and you have to pick six don't you/
Do they call people for interviews? It might be worth applying in case
Oxford and Durham reject me?
Rob
Josh Smith
<rob...@rdale.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>How is Imperial College for Chemistry, I never went to the open day but have
>just realised I have only liked three universities so far; Oxford, Durham
>and Lancaster, and you have to pick six don't you/
No. You don't. In fact, if you only apply to one, you save about £5 on
the fee ;-P
Josh
--
Freelance Writer
'Words ought to be a little wild for they are the
assault of thought on the unthinking' - JM Keynes
Matt Johnson
<m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> writes
>The fact that it uses Pascal shows how amazingly out of date the syllabus is.
>It is, apparently, possible to get a Computing A-level without doing any
>programming whatsoever.
Indeed.... even at my school, it /was/ possible to complete the project
via use of an Excel system with no real 'coding' whatsoever. MS Access +
wizards is also A Bad Thing for AL Computing, too. :(
--M
--
Matt Johnson <mailto:ma...@guysfield.demon.co.uk>
Matthew M. Huntbach
> On 28 Jul 1999 09:17:19 GMT, m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew M. Huntbach)
> wrote:
> >The fact that it uses Pascal shows how amazingly out of date the
> >syllabus is.
> As an aside, you *have* heard of Delphi?
Yes. So?
Matthew Huntbach
Niall Saville
wrote:
>Niall Saville (nd...@hermes.cam.ac.uk) wrote:
>> On 28 Jul 1999 09:17:19 GMT, m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew M. Huntbach)
>> wrote:
>
>> >The fact that it uses Pascal shows how amazingly out of date the
>> >syllabus is.
>
>> As an aside, you *have* heard of Delphi?
>
>Yes. So?
Nothing.
Jonathan Dalton
>>
>>Yes. So?
>
>Nothing.
>
And ladies and gentlemen, no prizes for guessing which thread wins the award
for 'most excruitiatingly boring conversation ever'!
jon