Vitor Belfort vs Frank Shamrock
James Shelledy, III
Who wins and why? And who else here thinks that Vitor has seen too many
Superfly movies?
JRS
Bulder
Grappler
James Shelledy, III wrote in message
Who wins and why? And who else here thinks that Vitor has seen too many
Superfly movies?
This would be a great match - I think the world of Frank Shamrock, but I
would have to go with Belfort because of the weight advantage. It would be a
hard choice because of Shamrocks submission skill level and the rather
untested ability of Belfort on the ground. Who's your pick?
Andrew Jacobs
At this point, I would have to pick Frank Shamrock. Vitor
hasn't shown me much as of late.
Jumpinmf
i don't see shooter adopting another grappler, igor zinoviev, (or kevin
jackson, a world class wrestler) as poster boy for his "pro wrestling" rules
campaign.
Andrew Jacobs
You are truely an IDIOT Jumpinmf. I don't have a "pro wrestling
rules campaign." I simply point out the sucess of guys like Ken
Shamrock, Dan Severn, Don Frye, Kazushi Sakaruba, Mo Smith (yeah, I
know that he was mainly a kickboxer but he has done some pro wrestling),
Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, and, any others that make a good showing of
themselves in a shoot event and then I point out the FACT that there are
others that could do the same where they came from. You are a parinoid
fool Jumpie.
Johnny Kincaide
Dear Grappler,
I don't get it, what's the Belfort-Superfly connection?
Confused in Pittsburgh
Andrew Jacobs
If anybody here has a "campaign" Jumpie, it is you with your
Royce Gracie and the rest of the Gracies RULE and everybody else sucks
(especially wrestlers) campaign. Just about everybody else here is more
rational than you are. In fact, just about anyone anywhere is far more
rational than you are.
Rodney A. Williams
His clothes, maybe.
head rush
Rodney A. Williams (rkn...@erols.com) wrote:
: His clothes, maybe.
What? You mean the silly looking pimp daddy suit he was wearing? Oh that
is all the rage in crack houses in the ghettos.
Johnny Kincaide
head rush wrote:
Thanks, LMAO!!!
AirCh621
Frank Shamrock's problems are: 1) He is cocky and over-confident and 2) He is
preoccupied with boxing and is moving farther and farther away from his
strength, which is submission fighting. The man can fight, but his day will
come. Remember the unbeatable Coleman or Vitor?
Rodney A. Williams
Heh, heh, heh ....We shall see.
Bob Savage
Everyone's day comes. It seems to come much faster for guys who get cocky,
though.
AirCh621 wrote in message <19980315214...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
Andrew Jacobs
JUMPINMF YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON. MO SMITH HAS DONE SOME
"REGULAR" PRO WRESTLING IN JAPAN. I EVEN HAVE THE TAPES. SURE, HE IS
MAINLY A KICKBOXER BUT HE HAS HAD A LITTLE BIT OF INVOLVEMENT IN
WRESTLING TOO. GO SUCK ROYCE'S DICK SOME MORE FAGGOT.
Andrew Jacobs
Nobody is unbeatable.
Jumpinmf
>> You are truely an IDIOT Jumpinmf. >>
well you're a fucking HOMO, so get over it.
>> I don't have a "pro wrestling rules campaign." I simply point out the
sucess of guys like Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, Don Frye, Kazushi Sakaruba,
Mo Smith >>
this takes the cake. now in your fucking little "pro wrestling agenda" MO
SMITH has miraculously turned into a "pro wrestler." you are an IDIOT.
Jumpinmf
>> Just about everybody else here is more rational than you are. In fact,
just about anyone anywhere is far more rational than you are. >>
you're not one of them. you are BLIND MARK. you try to make pro wrestling
relevent to everything that happens, when it's clearly NOT. this UFC had
NOTHING to do with pro wrestling, but there you go, trying to drag it in the
back door, when nobody cares and nobody wants to hear any of that stupid shit.
PRO WRESTLING IS FOR BABIES.
head rush
I don't agree or disagree with you but Frank will keep winning until someone
can take him apart tactically. Igor never had a chance once his feet left
the ground. Jackson is such a newbie with submissions that Frank took him
to the cleaners like yesterday's dirty laundry.
I think Frank would have a tougher time with Couture but it all depends on
Couture's knowledge in submissions. I don't think Frank can outmuscle
Couture so he would have to catch him where he is ignorant. But I don't
know if Couture can finish off Frank unless he goes the route of knocking
him senseless (i.e. Belfort's bats-in-the-belfry fight).
AirCh621 (airc...@aol.com) wrote:
: Frank Shamrock's problems are: 1) He is cocky and over-confident and 2) He is
Jumpinmf
>> MO SMITH HAS DONE SOME
"REGULAR" PRO WRESTLING IN JAPAN. I EVEN HAVE THE TAPES. SURE, HE IS
MAINLY A KICKBOXER BUT HE HAS HAD A LITTLE BIT OF INVOLVEMENT IN
WRESTLING TOO. >>
then that only solidifies my opinion that he is an ass.
Andrew Jacobs
No matter what you think, Mo Smith still kicks ass and that is
all that matters.
Jumpinmf
>> No matter what you think, Mo Smith still kicks ass and that is
all that matters. >>
actually shooter, it makes a difference to some people if a fighter is a whiny,
poor-loser, excuse making ass. but you wouldn't understand that, coming from
pro wrestling where all the "fighters" are asses.
Unc1fan812
>He is cocky and over-confident
If I was as bad as he is, I'd be cocky too!!
Rodney A. Williams
Andrew Jacobs wrote:
>
> Nobody is unbeatable.
I never said he was going to be unbeatable. I even said in another post
that his day will come. I am saying "We are going to have some fun until
it does!!!"
"Frank Shamrock's problems are: 1) He is cocky and over-confident"
Heh heh, We shall see
" He is
> preoccupied with boxing and is moving farther and farther away from his
> strength, which is submission fighting. "
How can we say this? An "armbar" is from boxing? A "double-leg takedown"
a boxing move? He only credited Javier Mendez for teaching him how to
box and made a statement that he didn't get the chance to use it. Coming
from the stance he uses ?? We shall see just how far he has strayed from
his "strength", when the fight calls for it. I for one believe he will
strike (duke) just fine though. Heh, heh....We shall see.
Remember the unbeatable Coleman or Vitor?
I think the "loss of focus" from these guys is totaly diffenent set of
bags. A set that each man carries and carries for different reasons.
Remember for better or worse Frank has been around all these scenes
before. His agenda is one that is "unique" I believe. Heh heh, ....We
shall see.
Rodney A. Williams
Agreed.
Andrew Jacobs
Mo Smith can kick ass. I have a lot of respect for Mo because
he is really the only kickboxing guy to learn the ground game and then
come into events like the UFC and Extreme Fighting and find lots of
sucess. How many other kickboxers can say that?
Andrew Jacobs
So if all pro wrestlers are "asses" I guess that that makes Dan
Severn an "ass" too. Dan Severn is great in my opinion as are a lot of
other wrestlers. THE ONLY ASS IS YOU JUMPINMF.
Bob Savage
"Takes one to know one" would have been appropriate in this situation.
Andrew Jacobs wrote in message <6ek294$me6$1...@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net>...
James Shelledy, III
Shooter,
You're wrong. Rickson is unbeatable ... because he never fights worthy
opponents. I am unbeatable for the same reason.
JRS
Rodney A. Williams
Andrew Jacobs
Good one JRS! LOL!!!!!
Andrew Jacobs
Jumpie says that Dan Severn is the "one exception." You don't
even know anything about all of the other guys so how can you accurately
make such a statement? Suppose that Dan Severn hadn't had the chance to
be in the UFC. You wouldn't know anything about him and if I brought
him up as an example of a great "regular" pro wrestler with all kinds of
credentials you would have scoffed at my claims. And we all KNOW that
this is exactly what you would have done. Well guess what Jumper Boy,
there are other guys out there that are comparable to Dan Severn. You
are just too BLIND, IGNORANT, and, PREJUDICED to realize it.
Andrew Jacobs
Mark Kerr has tried to fight Gary Goodridge, Dave Benataue,
and, Royce Gracie. It's not his fualt if all of them have backed out
of it. Kerr has defeated Fabio Gurgel and Daniel Bobish who are both
quality opponents. I know that Erikson defeated Kevin Randleman by KO a
few months age and Randleman is a tough opponent. Who has Rickson ever
fought?
Bob Savage
You forgot to put the popular alt.ufc NG word *hypocrite* in there.
Andrew Jacobs wrote in message <6eks5r$nrc$1...@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net>...
GAHTU
>You're wrong. Rickson is unbeatable ... because he never fights worthy
>opponents. I am unbeatable for the same reason.
So are Mark Kerr and Tom Erickson, lately.
Jumpinmf
>> So if all pro wrestlers are "asses" I guess that that makes Dan
Severn an "ass" too. >>
no dan severn is the one exception. the rest of them are all asses.
VERITECH
Marco Ruas, Pat Militech and a handful of others...
BTH
VERITECH
> Remember the unbeatable Coleman or Vitor?
I think the key here is that every good fighter will lose a few times
over time. Fighting is like any other sport in that a fighter can have a
good or bad day, be unprepared for a certain move(s) etc... When a guy
loses a fight, even if it is quite badly (Vitor, Coleman) it doesn't
mean that guy is any less of a fighter. Look at Rumina Sato for
instance... undefeated in LW until he was beaten by a virtual nobody.
He's still one of (if not the) best lightweights out there.
BTH
VERITECH
As long as we have guys like Peretti setting up matches, we should be
able to avoid this in the future. I'd be interested to see who (if they
let him back in) Kerr might face next.
Kerr/Belfort
Ruas/Smith
Machado/Couture
Erickson/F Shamrock (giant vs david)
some interesting ideas...
BTH
Andrew Jacobs
VERITECH, I believe that Ruas was schooled in a variety of
"martial arts" that included grappling and striking early on which is
why I didn't include him in with Mo Smith in my example of a kickboxer
learning the ground game and then coming into events like Extreme
Fighting and the UFC and being very sucessful. I don't know much about
Militech's background so I can't say too much about him. I do know that
with an official NHB record of 20-1-1 that Militech is one of the most
expierenced guys out there.
Andrew Jacobs
Hell, VERITECH would make a good matchmaker for the UFC. BTW,
I think that the UFC needs to bury the hatchet with Mark Kerr. Kerr is
an amazing talent and the UFC can't afford to keep him out of the event
over petty contract disputes. At this critical stage in the game, the
UFC can't afford to lose anybody, especially someone that is as
talented as Kerr.
ga...@hotmail.com
IF Machado makes it into the next UFC what weight class is he under? (excuse
my ignorance). Also, if Peretti is smart (which, as long as they keep him AWAY
from a microphone, I'll agree to be fact) I think he will pit Vitor and
Shamrock against each other in a future UFC. If Sham thinks he can fight out
of his weight class let's see him do it. IF Sham wins, Vitor will be
relatively history (in a Tank Abbott kinda way. He's there, but noone TRULY
cares) and Sham will be touted as the second coming. UFC needs a new
posterboy. If Vitor wins, Sham will return to his weight class still with
pride and opportunity before him (since he lost to a bigger guy) and Vitor
will be elevated back to our attention like pre-Couture. Kerr/Belfort would be
great to watch but there are a lot of folks I'd like to see Kerr fight besides
Belfort and Belfort really should fight someone other than a wrestler for a
change. Ruas/Smith will never happen. I don't think Ruas will ever return to
the UFC. I have lost faith.
Just who will Peretti put Tank up against? and why?
Is Zinoviev okay?
Garp
In article <350E3C...@deathsdoor.com>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Penguin
Shamrock got lucky knocking out Igor in the last fight, i think it would
have been a battle.
Rodney A. Williams <rkn...@erols.com> wrote in article
<350C4D...@erols.com>...
> AirCh621 wrote:
> >
> > Frank Shamrock's problems are: 1) He is cocky and over-confident and 2)
He is
> > preoccupied with boxing and is moving farther and farther away from his
> > strength, which is submission fighting. The man can fight, but his day
will
> > come. Remember the unbeatable Coleman or Vitor?
>
>
> Heh, heh, heh ....We shall see.
>
trip...@ix.netcom.com
Lucky...... BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA
Andrew Jacobs
I'd like to see Tank vs. a lot of people. Tank vs. Kimo,
Goodridge, or, Benataue would be great for instance. Why? Just for
the hell of it. Hey, a fights a fight and Tank's fights are usually
great.
James Shelledy, III
Rigan Machado is about 220-240 lbs of solid muscle. I'm wondering why
they didn't mention his name when promoting the next UFC. I really
think the time limits will hinder his ability.
JRS
MIGHTYEAGL
just for your info, seg has said they did a study and that tom erikson is
unmarketable...so there u go....some more geniuses,
maybe erikson can get some tatoos or grow a goatee and shave his head or dye it
blue or red or purple and get some earrings and a toungue ring and maybe say he
is gay..then they will sign him for sure
Gre8Whi...@webtv.net
I would like to see Goodridge fight Belfort. Tap Out said Goodridge was
domnating the fight with Ruas until he got caught with the heel hook.
You can't win all the time, but you can't lose forever.
Gre8Whi...@webtv.net
Tank is good to watch because he is the almost man. He almost beat Oleg,
Smith, Frye, His fight with Vitor was stopped to soon, His fight with
Ferrozzo could of went either way if you like alot of tip,tap crap then
Ferrozzo won. He is alway right on the edge of winning. I think the
reason why Tank was not in the last UFC is because Perriti told Tank if
he wants to stay he has to train hard or take a walk. That would explain
why Tank came in at this UFC at 257lbs.
John said the main thing holding Tank back is he has no real trainer.
Gre8Whi...@webtv.net
They said in in UFC 16, that Couture vs. Coleman will be in UFC 17. If
Coleman beats Couture look for the debut of Tom Erickson in UFC 18.
Andrew Jacobs
Tank definetely needs to start training harder. If Perretti did
say something like this maybe it will light a fire under Tank's ass and
he'll finally start to train harder. A better trained Tank will be even
tougher to beat than he already is which is pretty hard right now.
Jumpinmf
>> UFC needs a new posterboy. >>
they already have one. frank shamrock. just like when they hyped up ken
shamrock and made him their golden boy, despite the fact that he sucked in the
ufc.
what was that whole segment with frank shamrock showing jeff blatnick
submission holds if it wasn't a definate declaration that the ufc has picked
it's new favorite son?
VERITECH
> what was that whole segment with frank shamrock showing jeff blatnick
> submission holds if it wasn't a definate declaration that the ufc has picked
> it's new favorite son?
LOL! I never thought of it that way, but it apparently seems so.
BTH
Andrew Jacobs
The UFC didn't "create" Ken Shamrock as you have specualated you
MORON. Ken Shamrock was already in exsistence before the UFC and he was
their Superfight champion at one time so of course they were going to
promote him. The UFC is a PROMOTION and therefore they PROMOTE people.
Royce Gracie was their first "poster child." If Royce hadn't left the
UFC then he would have remained their "poster child." Royce left after
his draw in which Ken got the best of him and then Ken became the UFC's
top gun for a while. It's funny that a guy that "sucks" as bad as Ken
could last 36 minutes with Royce Gracie who was the UFC's "poster child"
at that time. Frank Shamrock is the current UFC middleweight champion
so of course the UFC is going to promote him too. If Randy Couture
wasn't busy with a Greco-Roman tourney I'm sure they would have had him
there doing something too since he is their heavyweight champion.
Jumpie just can't take it when one of the guys that he doesn't like gets
air time. He throws a jealous fit like a teenage girl.
Jumpinmf
>> Royce left after his draw in which Ken got the best of him and then Ken
became the UFC's top gun for a while. >>
the similarity between your methods and those of hitler becomes more apparent
every day. you repeat the lie over and over like a propagandist until it
becomes more well known and popular than the truth, thus ensuring that people
will be led astray.
what's worst of all is that you know you're lying, that ken never got the best
of royce gracie, but you repeat the lie anyway.
"if you repeat a lie loud enough and long enough, it becomes the truth."
- adolf hitler
Andrew Jacobs
Now you are quoting Hitler again you SICK FUCK. FACT: Ken
Shamrock got the best of Royce in their draw at UFC V. Royce's face was
bloody and Royce was breathing very heavy and Ken was still ready to go.
Sure, it was an official draw but Ken did get the better of Royce on
that occasion. FACT: Royce Gracie left the UFC after that. Whether he
left because of Shamrock or not is irrelavant. The FACT is that Royce
left the UFC and has not competed anywhere since then. THESE ARE FACTS.
If anyone here is like Hitler it is you Jumpinmf. Time and time again
you have used wrestlers and the people that watch them in the same
manner that Hitler used the Jews. You set yourself up as some holier
than thou figure in the same way that Hitler did when really you are
both HYPOCRITES and LIARS. You must be getting desperate again so you
decided to pull out the old Hitler references. The only thing is that
they fit you and they do NOT fit me in any way. You are so much like
Hitler that you even quote him. You sound like a crybaby Democrat to
me.
Gre8Whi...@webtv.net
Jumpin you sure do know alot about what Hitler and what he said. You a
Nazi
Gre8Whi...@webtv.net
I agree that Ken sucks, but Frank is the best middle weight ever.
Andrew Jacobs
Yeah, it makes you wonder about a guy that goes around quoting
Hitler all of the time. Jumpinmf is definetely off his rocker.
Ranselaer
I don't agree with you on this point. Tank has always been a whiner and lately
he's becoming a quitter too -- just look at his match against Mo Smith.
("Ouch, he's kicking my legs too hard, please stop the fight BJM")
IMHO, every one of Tank's losses has been an embarrasment, except for his early
loss to Oleg Taktarov, back when Tank and Oleg were both decent.
Andrew Jacobs
Tank took the match against Mo Smith as a last minute substitute
for Dan Severn. Nobody else would take the match. I thought that it
was a good match until Tank ran out of gas. It was definetely more
exciting than the borefest between Mo Smith and Randy Couture at
Ultimate Japan. I don't see any shame in any of Tank's losses myself.
I enjoy watching Tank compete. Supposedly he is working on his
conditioning and he has lost some weight so maybe he won't run out of
gas as quickly in the future. In my opinion, Tank's matches against
Taktarov and Frye are classics and two of the best matches ever in the
history of the UFC. Tank lost both of them but if you look at
Taktarov's and Frye's semifinal matches you would see that they were
very questionable to say the least (and I liked watching Frye and
Taktarov too). Personally, I'd love to see Tank go up against guys
like Benataue, Kimo, and, Goodridge in the UFC (and others too for
that matter) and I also enjoy Tank's commentary and interviews. The man
is no role model but he can be exciting.
Bob Savage
Yeah, what a jerk, maybe him and Renzo should hang out together. :)
Andrew Jacobs wrote in message <6faauu$qgk$1...@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net
>...that matter) and I also enjoy Tank's commentary and interviews. The man
IronmanIII
>Tank has always been a whiner and lately
>he's becoming a quitter too -- just look at his match against Mo Smith.
Did you hear his comments in UFC 15? In the pre-fight interview, Tank says
he's always ready to fight because if some guy comes up to you in a bar, you
can't say "I can fight now, I haven't been training. That's why you always
gotta be ready." After he quits beacuse of some stiff leg kicks (hardest I've
ever seen, IMO much harder than Ruas'), he goes on to say "They pulled me off a
bar stool one week ago, if I'd have been training this wouldn't have even been
a fight." Tank is so full of shit he disgusts me.
Ranselaer
Well said, Ironman. Tank Flabbutt needs to learn a basic lesson in
sportsmanship: don't take a match if you aren't ready, and if you take a match
and lose, take it like a man. No bullshit excuses.
Andrew Jacobs
I still persoanlly enjoy watching Tank in the UFC. His match
against Mo Smith was a hell of a lot more entertaining then the borefest
between Couture and Mo Smith at Ultimate Japan.