"The Gracie Fix" until he met Kimo ...
Krnrocks
>Rent the tape, UFC 3, Gracie's first loss in the UFC...he may of won
>the battle, but he lost the war, and was hurt and couldn't fight no
>more.
>
>Shut up and rent it.
uh, i own it and i felt embarassed FOR Kimo after he got beat down and came out
of the locker room thinkin he actually did something cuz gracie couldnt
continue. he lost, plain and simple
what a loser.
JUMPINMF1
these overconfident, non-experienced, and sometime muscle freaks in
UFC 1. The "mixed" Martial Arts saying from the early UFC was a good
marketing ploy, and it worked. But it also allowed the Gracies (who
owned majority rights in the UFC at the time), to pick fighters who
SHOULD NOT HAVE EVEN BEEN THERE. Either they had no NHB experience or
they just plain sucked. It was a cake walk for someone with NHB
experience, many of the fighters from around the world could have
walked through the first several UFC's if they were invited (or I
should say hand picked). Gracie's set it up well, easy opponents =
easy fights, until one mistake; Kimo...and at that time Kimo had very
little experience, imagine what Kimo would do to Royce now, ouch...
Rent the tape, UFC 3, Gracie's first loss in the UFC...he may of won
the battle, but he lost the war, and was hurt and couldn't fight no
more.
Shut up and rent it.
===
more revisionist history from another little troll without a clue.
Tim McNellie
> If Kimos hair was shorter at the time teh whole myth surrounding the Gracies
> being unbeaten (until recetly) would have been shattered years ago.
Why? What would Kimo have done if Royce couldn't grab the ponytail?
SPIDERMAN
>the battle, but he lost the war, and was hurt and couldn't fight no
>more.
Yeah , so he came back in UFC 4 and won again.
xbielz
The_Regulator <MA_Reg...@reg.com> wrote in message
news:3870e5b7...@news.erols.com...
> It's was amazing to see, wasn't it...this little guy "beating" all
> these overconfident, non-experienced, and sometime muscle freaks in
> UFC 1. The "mixed" Martial Arts saying from the early UFC was a good
> marketing ploy, and it worked. But it also allowed the Gracies (who
> owned majority rights in the UFC at the time), to pick fighters who
> SHOULD NOT HAVE EVEN BEEN THERE. Either they had no NHB experience or
> they just plain sucked. It was a cake walk for someone with NHB
> experience, many of the fighters from around the world could have
> walked through the first several UFC's if they were invited (or I
> should say hand picked). Gracie's set it up well, easy opponents =
> easy fights, until one mistake; Kimo...and at that time Kimo had very
> little experience, imagine what Kimo would do to Royce now, ouch...
>
> Rent the tape, UFC 3, Gracie's first loss in the UFC...he may of won
> the battle, but he lost the war, and was hurt and couldn't fight no
> more.
>
SPIDERMAN
Thanks.
>He also came
>back in 5 and failed to win it, rent a copy.
Yes he fought Shamrock to a draw in a superfight lasting over 30 mins.
But after 30 mins of Ken doing nothing but lying in Royces guard , they are
split up and put on thier feet.
The new rule has changed the game.
Royce takes a shot trying to enter and five minutes more overtime of Ken
waiting for the clock and it ends in a draw. Wonder what woulda happened
if there were no time limit ?
Of course this was a rematch with the much bigger Ken Shamrock
who, after being quickly and beautifully snake choked by Royce in UFC 1, had
himself two years to train a safe road to a draw .
>He refused to enter 6 because
>there were too many big people in it , rent it.
Actually he claimed back injury.
You doubt him ?
After wearing guys like Severn , Kimo and Shamrock ?
Ever fought or trained with larger opponents ?
Do you know of other fighters who have had a string of victories as long as
Gracies against LARGER opponents ?
What, no ones got a video camera ?
>In fact he hasn't entered
>the octagon since for fear of losing, a real warrior would fight anyway.
This month vrs Takada at Pride 2000.
Maybe he`ll lose now that he`s forced everyone to learn to deal with his
shit, but he`s a warrior.
I got it all on tape .
Swpez
being unbeaten (until recetly) would have been shattered years ago.
Kimo is a superb fighter, who has only fort the best fighters in UFC.
Matt Palmer <dub.s...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:84r8r5$85j$1...@nclient11-gui.server.virgin.net...
>
> Krnrocks <krnr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20000103171139...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
> > >
> > >Rent the tape, UFC 3, Gracie's first loss in the UFC...he may of won
> > >the battle, but he lost the war, and was hurt and couldn't fight no
> > >more.
> > >
> > >Shut up and rent it.
> >
> > uh, i own it and i felt embarassed FOR Kimo after he got beat down and
> came out
> > of the locker room thinkin he actually did something cuz gracie couldnt
> > continue. he lost, plain and simple
> >
> > what a loser.
> ===
> yeah Kimo's UFC record is 1-3. Royce did pussy out though, if he was well
> enough to walk into the ring he was well enough to fight, if you know your
> not well enough t fight you don't come out the locker room. He shit his
> pants when he saw that mullet haired freak standing opposite.
>
>
MATTHEW J AIELLO
: It's was amazing to see, wasn't it...this little guy "beating" all
: these overconfident, non-experienced, and sometime muscle freaks in
: UFC 1. The "mixed" Martial Arts saying from the early UFC was a good
: marketing ploy, and it worked. But it also allowed the Gracies (who
: owned majority rights in the UFC at the time), to pick fighters who
: SHOULD NOT HAVE EVEN BEEN THERE. Either they had no NHB experience or
: they just plain sucked. It was a cake walk for someone with NHB
: experience, many of the fighters from around the world could have
: walked through the first several UFC's if they were invited (or I
: should say hand picked). Gracie's set it up well, easy opponents =
: easy fights, until one mistake; Kimo...and at that time Kimo had very
: little experience, imagine what Kimo would do to Royce now, ouch...
: Rent the tape, UFC 3, Gracie's first loss in the UFC...he may of won
: the battle, but he lost the war, and was hurt and couldn't fight no
: more.
: Shut up and rent it.
1. Actually Royce had no NHB experience when he entered UFC 1. Only BJJ
experience.
2. One thing that never gets mentioned is the UFC claimed it looked for
the best fighters in the world yet put Kimo in, a man who's trainer
essentially lied about his credentials(said he was a TKD black belt), and
who apparently didn't even have an id card(remember they weren't sure of
his last name). the fact that he was a decent fighter once he got in
shouldn't have mattered.
YENDOR3
owned majority rights in the UFC at the time), to pick fighters who
SHOULD NOT HAVE EVEN BEEN THERE.>>
Jimmerson was a decent light heavyweight boxer who fought for the title at one
point.I do not believe Jimmerson was the worst on the card.I would have picked
him over Zane Frazier and out of shape Kevin Rozier.Maybe the sumo guy and Pat
smith also.Jimmerson had the misfortune of being Royces first victim.
Shamrock-King of Pancrase.Good fighter nuff said.
Gordeau-Alot of experience in Karate and a genuine tough guy.
<<Either they had no NHB experience or
they just plain sucked.>>
<< It was a cake walk for someone with NHB
experience, many of the fighters from around the world could have
walked through the first several UFC's if they were invited (or I
should say hand picked).>>
Maybe maybe not.They didn't know how Bjj worked at the time and most didn't
study submissions.
<<Gracie's set it up well, easy opponents =
easy fights, until one mistake; Kimo...and at that time Kimo had very
little experience,>>
Kimo had a good day.Royce had a bad day.Royce still won.
<<imagine what Kimo would do to Royce now, ouch...>>
He would still lose.
YENDOR3
<<he may of won
the battle, but he lost the war, and was hurt and couldn't fight no
more.>>
<<Shut up and rent it.>>
I own it!
Choke
came out
> of the locker room thinkin he actually did something cuz gracie couldnt
> continue. he lost, plain and simple
>
> what a loser.
I agree
Andrew Jacobs
dub.s...@virgin.net (Matt Palmer) Re: "The Gracie Fix" until he met
Kimo ...
MATTHEW J AIELLO <apd1@orion> wrote in message
news:84rico$k...@news.csus.edu...
It's was amazing to see, wasn't it...this little guy "beating" all these
overconfident, non-experienced, and sometime muscle freaks in UFC 1. The
"mixed" Martial Arts saying from the early UFC was a good marketing
rights in the UFC at the time), to pick fighters who SHOULD NOT HAVE
sucked. It was a cake walk for someone with NHB experience, many of the
fighters from around the world could have walked through the first
several UFC's if they were invited (or I should say hand picked).
mistake; Kimo...and at that time Kimo had very little experience,
battle, but he lost the war, and was hurt and couldn't fight no more.
experience.
actually, its what Gracie jiu-jitsu is, he's been doing that his whole
life. his art is directed at reality combat
===
the best fighters in the world yet put Kimo in, a man who's trainer
essentially lied about his credentials(said he was a TKD black belt),
and who apparently didn't even have an id card(remember they weren't
sure of his last name). the fact that he was a decent fighter once he
got in shouldn't have mattered.
So Royce, one of the worlds best a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, fought the best in
the world at....boxing, savate, karate etc. who had absolutely no ground
experience, handpicked by his brother....what a guy!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------
Some of the guys that Royce fought weren't even close to being at
the top of their field. Art Jimmerson was a Peter McNeely palooka Joe
type in the boxing world. Ichihara may have been a "legend" at the YMCA
in Tokyo but I know that there were better karate fighters than him in
the world at that time (Andy Hug for instance). Ron Van Clief was a
point karate legend, back in the 1970s! I'll give some credit to
Gerrard Gordeau in Savate but this doesn't take away from the fact that
he had little to no ground skills.
Andrew Jacobs
yen...@aol.comnojunk (YENDOR3) Re: "The Gracie Fix" until he met Kimo
..
owned majority rights in the UFC at the time), to pick fighters who
SHOULD NOT HAVE EVEN BEEN THERE.>>
light heavyweight boxer who fought for the title at one point.I do not
believe Jimmerson was the worst on the card.I would have picked him over
Zane Frazier and out of shape Kevin Rozier.Maybe the sumo guy and Pat
smith also.Jimmerson had the misfortune of being Royces first victim.
Shamrock-King of Pancrase.Good fighter nuff
said. Gordeau-Alot of experience in Karate and a genuine tough
guy.
This has been discussed here before yet never anwsered. I'm
talking about Art "One Glove" Jimmerson's boxing career. Art was
supposedly a "contender" to a title. In the alphabet soup that is pro
boxing being a "contender" doesn't necessarily mean anything. There
have been plenty of lame ass "contenders" in pro boxing and there are
also plenty of titles in pro boxing that don't mean jack shit. What
title was he a "contender" to? When was this? Who did he box and how
did he do against them? Why did he fade into obscurity? I think that
Jimmerson's performance at UFC I was absolutely pathetic and ranks as
one of the worst, if not the worst performance I've ever seen in a NHB
match, or any other type of match for that matter. Jimmerson was
probably the worst fighter in that tournament. The only guy that I
could see him standing a chance against is that fat sumo guy.
UFC I happened in November of '93. The Pancrase organization
held it's first card in September of '93. That means that Ken Shamrock
had about 2 months of expierence in Pancrase before fighting in the UFC.
Prior to that, most of Ken's expierence came from doing worked matches.
Ken was very green at that time. Ken became the 1st King of Pancrase in
December of '94, one year and one month AFTER fighting in UFC I.
Gerrard Gordeau did have a lot of expierence in Savate (and
Kyokshin (sp.?) Karate I believe) but his ground skills were severly
lacking. He was (is) considered to be a feared man but that's because
he's a dirty fighter who's not above cheating (eye gouging, biting,
taking cheap shots, etc...) and has a short temper. However, he still
sucks on the ground and his cheating won't help him win matches because
those tactics will only lead to a DQs (and if it's a streetfight his
opponents can fight dirty too).
The Killer Bear
> yeah Kimo's UFC record is 1-3. Royce did pussy out though, if he was well
> enough to walk into the ring he was well enough to fight, if you know your
> not well enough t fight you don't come out the locker room. He shit his
> pants when he saw that mullet haired freak standing opposite.
I still believe that Royce, despite his exhaustion, could have defeated
Howard. Howard may be an adequate striker, but he certainly doesn't possess
a ground game that can ever match anyone competent in BJJ, especially Royce.
However, I believe that if Royce were to make it to the finals, he would
have been jurt severely by Ken Shamrock. Of course, this only depends on
whether Ken would have overlooked his injury. If Ken would have continued
staying out of the finals, Royce still would have been able to defeat Steve
Jennum, although not easily. I say this only because I really do believe
that Royce suffered from electrolyte exhaustion.
The Killer Bear
Royce choked his ass out during the first UFC?
And for the record, Ken is supposed to be a competant grappler (according to
many of the enlightened folks here in our wonderful NG); not some paper
tiger hack.
How about Dan Severn? I suppose that this fight was some sort of fluke
also.
Andrew Jacobs <thesh...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4588-387...@storefull-113.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Group: alt.ufc Date: Tue, Jan 4, 2000, 2:16am (PST+8) From:
dub.s...@virgin.net (Matt Palmer) Re: "The Gracie Fix" until he met
Kimo ...
MATTHEW J AIELLO <apd1@orion> wrote in message
news:84rico$k...@news.csus.edu...
The_Regulator (MA_Reg...@reg.com) wrote:
It's was amazing to see, wasn't it...this little guy "beating" all these
overconfident, non-experienced, and sometime muscle freaks in UFC 1. The
"mixed" Martial Arts saying from the early UFC was a good marketing
ploy, and it worked. But it also allowed the Gracies (who owned majority
rights in the UFC at the time), to pick fighters who SHOULD NOT HAVE
The Killer Bear
SPIDERMAN <ppa...@direct.ca> wrote in message
news:aPec4.1092$B6.8...@brie.direct.ca...
> This month vrs Takada at Pride 2000.
Fot the record, I agree with you concerning your perspectives. However, I'm
just letting you know that you may take some flak over this particular
comment. I certainly did when I used Takada in an argument. You see, most
people here refer to Takada as "Tomato Can." For many different reasons,
the people of this NG consider him a hack who works fights. They believe
that he posesses no real skill, despite the fact that he has trained Kazushi
Sakuraba on different occasions. Besides, it seems irrelevant since Takada
will be fighting someone else. Either way, Royce has certainly answered the
criticisms and has entered a tournament with top fighters. As long as he
doesn't bail out with an implausible excuse, I certainly don't have a
problem with Royce.
SPIDERMAN
So do I.
>However, I'm
>just letting you know that you may take some flak over this particular
>comment.
I`m used to it.
>I certainly did when I used Takada in an argument.
Me to...................on a Rickson thread.
>You see, most
>people here refer to Takada as "Tomato Can."
Of course they`d never say it to his face..............
>For many different reasons,
>the people of this NG consider him a hack who works fights.
And some of his fights are works, but only a hack would conclude they all
were.
>They believe
>that he posesses no real skill, despite the fact that he has trained
Kazushi
>Sakuraba on different occasions.
In a real fight (Rickson) as well as in training he looks pretty well versed
with techniques to me .
The Japanese love him.
Americans who train Japanese arts think he`s a hack.........go figure.
>Besides, it seems irrelevant since Takada
>will be fighting someone else.
Takada`s got a different opponent ?
Or Is Royce gonna lose ?
>Either way, Royce has certainly answered the
>criticisms and has entered a tournament with top fighters.
Yup.
>As long as he
>doesn't bail out with an implausible excuse, I certainly don't have a
>problem with Royce.
Nah, he`s cool to watch .
Sure be funny if he won.
JUMPINMF1
talking about Art "One Glove" Jimmerson's boxing career. Art was
supposedly a "contender" to a title. In the alphabet soup that is pro
boxing being a "contender" doesn't necessarily mean anything. There
have been plenty of lame ass "contenders" in pro boxing and there are
also plenty of titles in pro boxing that don't mean jack shit.
jimmerson was billed as a ranked light heavyweight. if you think that ANY of
the ranked light heavyweights of ANY pro boxing organization are poor strikers,
then name them.
if jimmerson had worn two gloves, would that have impressed you more? the
bottom line is, jimmerson didn't understand the power of ground fighting, so
mocking him for wearing a glove to protect his hand is foolish. no doubt he
expected to deliver serious blows, and he wanted his hand to stand up to the
punishment.
IF jimmerson had known the power of groundfighting, and STILL had worn a boxing
glove then he would be worthy of mockery. but he was a boxer, and he did not
realize the power of gracie jujitsu.
nevertheless, charactizing art jimmerson as a bum has no basis in fact. he was
obviously a dangerous puncher, or he wouldn't have been a ranked fighter. do
you have any idea how many men are trying to be ranked contenders in the world
of boxing?
bottom line, art jimmerson was not a ground fighter, and he was up against a
master ground fighter. there is NO shame in losing to royce gracie, and there
is NO shame in wearing a boxing glove to the FIRST UFC ever.
JUMPINMF1
I agree
====
the "loser" tapped out. what was his name?
Mike F.
> jimmerson was billed as a ranked light heavyweight. if you think that ANY of
> the ranked light heavyweights of ANY pro boxing organization are poor strikers,
> then name them.
Art Jimmerson is not a poor striker compared to Royce Gracie. He is a poor boxer
when compared to other boxers. Being ranked by an organization in boxing means very
little in some cases. There are about a million of them, and when Art Jimmerson
clashed with real ranked boxers, he was usually beaten in the first few rounds. He
was a very mediocre boxer. Laverne Clark is a mediocre boxer as well, but he can
outclass some of his opponents with the skills he has obtained. Nobody got to see
what Art Jimmerson could do, but...that is what you get for not protecting from the
takedown...
> the
> bottom line is, jimmerson didn't understand the power of ground fighting, so
> mocking him for wearing a glove to protect his hand is foolish.
In any type of match where you can be taken down, where is the sense in wearing a
boxing glove? Think about it. If you hit the mat, you need to use your hands,
gloves don't allow you to use your hands. Being a pure boxer with no wrestling or
ground experience, you'd think he'd not put himself at such a huge disadvantage.
> IF jimmerson had known the power of groundfighting, and STILL had worn a boxing
> glove then he would be worthy of mockery.
Agreed. I don't rag on him for wearing the boxing glove, because he honestly
thought it was for the best interest of his hand, but...anytime you can fall to the
mat, like I said, you need both hands. You're not going to outgrapple anyone with
experience if you have a big ass glove on your hand. And going into the event he
knew the rules, he knew he could be taken down, and he chose to wear it.
> but he was a boxer, and he did not
> realize the power of gracie jujitsu.
He didn't realize ANYTHING about the mat. Hell, you don't even need to know
anything about GJJ, just have ANYONE take him down and mount him and he would've
been helpless. Royce just took him down, mounted him, and waited. Jimmerson didn't
understand anything about grappling at all.
> nevertheless, charactizing art jimmerson as a bum has no basis in fact.
By boxing standards he'd be a bum. A bum being a guy with a below .500 record, and
is more of a journeyman. It all depends on how you categorize people.
> he was
> obviously a dangerous puncher, or he wouldn't have been a ranked fighter.
That's not always the case. Jimmerson has never been ranked by a top organization.
What is the name of the organization that supposedly ranked him? I know since his
UFC appearance he lost all of the matches I've heard of him fighting. If he's won a
boxing match since UFC 1, it is news to me.
> and there
> is NO shame in wearing a boxing glove to the FIRST UFC ever.
I think it's stupid as hell, but that's as far as I'll go. He would've lost to
ANYONE with that glove on his hand.
~Mike
KrAzY K
Alex Apelbaum
> Cause the whole point of the early UFC's was to have Karate vs JiuJitsu,
> Kickboxing vs. Kungfu and the like. It wasn't to have all grapplers, or cross
> trained fighters. If you asked any of those Kungfu/Karate guys at the time
> they would have said "My style teaches us to ko people before we ever get to
> the ground, so what's the point of knowing what to do on the ground?"
>
> ===
> this really spells out what a great fighter Royce was, why did Rorion pick
> Jimmerson when he could have picked Bustamante....oh no, you see that would
> have been a credible challenge.
Samoanpowr
Not according to Ken; he was a "master of submission".
Samoa.
Samoanpowr
enough to walk into the ring he was well enough to fight, if you know your not
well enough t fight you don't come out the locker room. He shit his pants when
he saw that mullet haired freak standing opposite.>>
Royce is/was hypoglycemic and his vision blurred on the way to the Octagon. He
thought he would be ok to fight, but on the way from the locker room to the
'Gon his vision got worse. He told Helio that he couldn't see, but once he got
the tie up with Howard he'd be alright. It was Helio's decision to throw the
towel.
Btw; if Royce was scared of Harold Howard so was Shamrock. Because after
Shamrock heard that he wouldn't be fighting Royce he backed out of a fight with
the same guy Royce backed out of a fight with.
Samoa.
Peter Hobday
>> >Rent the tape, UFC 3, Gracie's first loss in the UFC...he may of won
>> >the battle, but he lost the war, and was hurt and couldn't fight no
>> >more.
>>
>>
> just to let you know, most people on the newsgroup own a copy. He also came
> back in 5 and failed to win it, rent a copy. He refused to enter 6 because
> there were too many big people in it , rent it. In fact he hasn't entered
> the octagon since for fear of losing, a real warrior would fight anyway.
>
>
You tell 'em big guy. While you're on your renting binge, get a copy of
the Royce Wallid match in which Royce fights his 1st Brazilian grappler in
recent memories. Now go figure how he would have done if Rorion had
brought Sperry, Wallid, Bustamente, Bitetti, Gurgel, etc. along with
Royce to the early UFC's.
Speculation, of course, but...
Peter
Peter Hobday
> ===
> So Royce, one of the worlds best a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, fought the best in the
> world at....boxing, savate, karate etc. who had absolutely no ground
> experience, handpicked by his brother....what a guy!!!
Not sure how sarcastic this post was supposed to be Matt, but remember
that people back then actually thought that karate (like Bruce Lee) could
dispose of people left, right and centre.
While I agree that Royce's opponents were not the best in each of the MA
categories, the early UFC's did show that submissions grappling was the
best "1-dimensional" art that could be studied. Now that x-trained people
are doing well things have definitely changed.
Peter
Peter Hobday
> I'm
> talking about Art "One Glove" Jimmerson's boxing career. Art was
> supposedly a "contender" to a title. In the alphabet soup that is pro
> boxing being a "contender" doesn't necessarily mean anything. There
> have been plenty of lame ass "contenders" in pro boxing and there are
> also plenty of titles in pro boxing that don't mean jack shit.
> ====
>
> the ranked light heavyweights of ANY pro boxing organization are poor strikers,
> then name them.
>
> bottom line is, jimmerson didn't understand the power of ground fighting, so
> expected to deliver serious blows, and he wanted his hand to stand up to the
> punishment.
>
> realize the power of gracie jujitsu.
>
> obviously a dangerous puncher, or he wouldn't have been a ranked fighter. do
> you have any idea how many men are trying to be ranked contenders in the world
> of boxing?
>
> bottom line, art jimmerson was not a ground fighter, and he was up against a
> is NO shame in wearing a boxing glove to the FIRST UFC ever.
>
How about tapping without your opponent applying a hold? See the look of
bewilderment on Royce's face when the ref ended the match?
I can see Royce's thoughts:
"Christ Rorion has REALLY done it this time. Fuck, no-one will believe it
now that this guy gives up without me doing anything".
Peter
Dre Estwd
he was
obviously a dangerous puncher, or he wouldn't have been a ranked fighter.>>>>
First Hackney, then Ichihara, then Remco, NOW JIMMERSON? There is no
legitimazation of Art Jimmerson as a fighter in the MMA world. You can assume
he is a dangerous puncher all you want, but that only serves him well in the
world of boxing. A one-dimensional fighter is in trouble, but a
one-dimensional fighter who can only punch is a dead man. And Jimmerson didn't
even throw a punch. The man had absolutely no business in the octagon, even if
it was the first one.
Andrew Jacobs
news:20000104110453...@ng-ck1.aol.com...
Not according to Ken; he was a "master of submission".
Samoa.
Yes, and Pat Smith thought that he felt "no pain", so what?
Ken was good enough to have been considered to be good in
submissions (especially at that time), it's just that he screwed up and
got beat. It happens to fighters all the time.
Andrew Jacobs
in a submission hold or recieving any strikes. All that Royce had to do
was take him down and Jimmerson just tapped. I think that Jimmerson may
be more deserving of the title of President of the Quick Tap Club than
Remco. Oh well, maybe Remco can be Vice President or Treasurer or
something....
Andrew Jacobs
news:20000104091217...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
talking about Art "One Glove" Jimmerson's boxing career. Art was
supposedly a "contender" to a title. In the alphabet soup that is pro
boxing being a "contender" doesn't necessarily mean anything. There have
been plenty of lame ass "contenders" in pro boxing and there are also
plenty of titles in pro boxing that don't mean jack shit.
====
jimmerson was billed as a ranked light heavyweight. if you think that
ANY of the ranked light heavyweights of ANY pro boxing organization are
poor strikers, then name them.
Jimmerson, he trains by raising his hands in the air in victory
===
the bottom line is, jimmerson didn't understand the power of ground
fighting, so mocking him for wearing a glove to protect his hand is
foolish. no doubt he expected to deliver serious blows, and he wanted
his hand to stand up to the punishment.
IF jimmerson had known the power of groundfighting, and STILL had worn a
boxing glove then he would be worthy of mockery. but he was a boxer, and
he did not realize the power of gracie jujitsu.
a credible victory for Royce then LOL
===
he was obviously a dangerous puncher, or he wouldn't have been a ranked
contenders in the world of boxing?
it is if you're characterising him as a credible NHB fighter. Your
arguments are always the same...so full of shit. You waffle on for ages
trying to sound intelligent when you are, infact, talking shit about
shit. Are you seriously trying to make Jimmerson a credible boxer? or a
credible NHB fighter? whether you are or wether you're not, shut up...no
on cares.
===
against a master ground fighter. there is NO shame in losing to royce
gracie, and there is NO shame in wearing a boxing glove to the FIRST UFC
pick Jimmerson when he could have picked Bustamante....oh no, you see
that would have been a credible challenge.
What Jimmerson was billed as and what Jimmerson really was are
two different things. Kimo was billed as a black belt in TKD when in
reality he only had a few months of training in Joe Son Do. A lot of
the early UFC fighters had records that were inflated and credentials
that were padded. And I don't think that being a ranked light
heavyweight in any boxing organization necessarily means anything.
Which organization was he ranked in? What was his ranking? What year
did he recieve his hightest ranking? Who did he ever beat that was any
good? Why did he disappear into obscurity? Anyone who's followed any
pro boxing can tell you that there's been some lame ass "contenders"
over the years. I'm sure that Peter McNeely was considered to be a
"contender" at one time too.
The bottom line is that Jimmerson wore one glove because he
didn't know what the FUCK he was doing and really had no business
getting in there in the first place.
Tim McNellie
> LOL, yeah I saw it recently, what an appalling show of hands eh! Just
> think, had he of met Sperry in the opening round of UFC 1........
Imagine what the audience would have thought after they wind up on the ground
for 15 minutes with Sperry dominating position but unable to finish: "Why the
feck are these Brazilians rolling around like a couple of homos?"
If the early UFCs hadn't been a style-vs-style affair, nobody would have cared
about BJJ or groundfighting. If you stack the tournament with great BJJ
fighters, then no one will care about BJJ.
Samoanpowr
LOL, nah I just think he ran his mouth a little too much (not a bad thing,
every fighter does it) and after he lost he had to backstep a little to cover
up for his quick loss.
Samoa.
Samoanpowr
Royce Wallid match in which Royce fights his 1st Brazilian grappler in recent
memories. Now go figure how he would have done if Rorion had brought Sperry,
Wallid, Bustamente, Bitetti, Gurgel, etc. along with Royce to the early
UFC's.>>
BJJ guys don't fight BJJ guys in NHB. Ryan vs Wallid maybe the exception if it
ever goes down, but that is a personal issue, not two BJJ guys with nothing
against each other entering the same tournament.
Samoa.
JUMPINMF1
money and sew the seed of Gracie JJ for the future in America. By
showcasing striking martial arts just shows how in favour of BJJ it was.
===
the striking arts reigned supreme at that time.
THAT is why they were featured.
JUMPINMF1
didn't know what the FUCK he was doing and really had no business
getting in there in the first place.
who are you to say what art jimmerson should or shouldn't do? this is not the
libertarian spirit andrew. the libertarian spirit is one of toleration and
equanimity. defining what is art jimmerson's business is a terrible breach on
your part. you may be removed as posterboy soon.
JUMPINMF1
bewilderment on Royce's face when the ref ended the match?
i see a guy who realizes his is S.O.L. doing the smartest possible thing at
that moment.
JUMPINMF1
i don't think so, peter "hobday"... i think you see the thoughts of the
anti-royce.
SPIDERMAN
You`d fight a guy like Takada ?
Then your pretty badass by my own standards my friend .
>thats why no one here has said they all were
I`ve heard it myself here before.
>this explains alot
Yes , the Japanese know little or nothing about fighting.
>both, or Royce will get a donkey or work in the first round and fight
Takada
>in the second
I would imagine he`ll be afforded the same opportunitys as the other
fighters.
>agreed here, he has stepped in against the big boys and I give him all the
>credit in the world, if he fights any of the decent fighters
So you`ll slag him now and if he wins he`ll be cool ?
But if he loses then of course you were right all along.
>he could do it, it is possible, I can see him upsetting at least one of the
>big boys. I'd love to see him fight Goodridge, Coleman, Kerr then
>Vovchanchin.
That would be awsome .
SPIDERMAN
I enjoy seeing the outcome of an undisturbed match more than I do a start
standing every five minutes competition.
>personally I believe Royce would have won
Got that right.
>this makes it perfectly acceptable then?
A back injury claim after Kimo ?
You is bad.
>you think Royce would win a descision over Shamrock in 15 mins?
Nope.
>this was his fear, he couldn't use his 'sit back and wait for a mistake'
>plan with the time limits, not to mention him crying over standups
God bless him for trying to preserve the integrity of a fight.
>he beat them all in their first ever NHB tourneys, a man who's trained the
>art all his life against first timers
So what ?
They had all thier life to train their arts as well.
>imagine Vitor back then?
Yeah with no JJ technique and the cardio of a tsetse fly.
>and roll with
>a few mates who are much bigger (taller and fatter)
Try bigger guys with muscle and skill..................its different.
>I can guess Vitor Belfort would have won the first 5 UFC's without pussying
>out of UFC 3, he would also have won the competition again in 5 or >beaten
>Shamrock in the superfight, the rules totally suioted Royce's art, which
goes to show he can onkly fight one game.
Other than Joe Charles, who has Belfort dominated on the ground ?
>Pat Militech has had a run longer than
>that against better opponents than Kimo, Ken and Severn on their first
>nights.
His biggest challenge has been Mikey Burnette who`s smaller than Pat and
arguably was the winner of the fight.
>He has fought against heavier opponents and beaten them too
Who ?
>oh I didn't realise this was the octagon.
Same thing.
>his pathetic showing against Harold Howard showed what a
>shit talker he was.
It was pathetic that he was tired and unable to continue after the Kimo
fight ?
Man you is real bad.
>He was good no ones doubting that but everything was
>set up for him by his brother, why didn't he enter any UFC's after 5?
`Cause he said he was injured and didn`t like the new rules ?
>because Rorion was no longer in control to pick out losers from boxing >and
karate anymore.
Oh.
>Why is Royce so great if he can't fight under different
>rules?
Because he`s not an athlete, he`s a fighter.
And real fights don`t get stopped and restarted.
>He fights under his own rules and in my mind that makes him very
>limited.
Really ?
I think it`s quite clever.
>me too, only I can see what actually happened.
Yeah, you da man bro.
Andrew Jacobs
samoa...@aol.com (Samoanpowr) Re: "The Gracie Fix" until he met Kimo
..
<<Ken was very green at that time.>>
Not according to Ken; he was a "master of submission".
Samoa.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Just about everybody who has ever fought in the UFC claimed to be
a "master" of something.
Tae Hoon
I tape, 'Gracie' who designed this desperate 'game' AND THE
RING with the mat.
Real fight should not have the fence the grapplers can take
advantage of or should not have the mat, on the ground,
which nullify the devastating strikers power origin,firm
ground.
In real fight, you can poke into their eyeballs or grab and
squeeze or pull off their balls while they tackle and work
on ground work. Without skills of attacking to eyes and
groins, it is just one of another martial art matches.
No matches of martial arts cannot be real fight.
UFC was a political product of Gracies' and now is of
wrestlers.
Any martial art is good including amateur wrestling and
bjj. Just keep practice your own art with respect every day.
Thank you for reading this.
Tae Hoon
Seattle
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Savage Lizard
news:Kikc4.51$xe3....@news2.randori.com...
> What about Ken Shamrock? - The former King of Pancrase. Did you forget
that
> Royce choked his ass out during the first UFC?
>
> And for the record, Ken is supposed to be a competant grappler (according
to
> many of the enlightened folks here in our wonderful NG); not some paper
> tiger hack.
You don't know Andrew. He lives with Ken Shamrock's nutsack firmly lodged
in his mouth at all times. Andrew's mission in life is to pump up anything
related to Shamrock, and belittle anything that Royce did.
> How about Dan Severn? I suppose that this fight was some sort of fluke
> also.
Little skinny guys beating big strong guys is always at least somewhat
impressive. Not that being big automatically makes someone a good fighter,
but the little guy has to defeat a weight and probably strength advantage.
No matter how much people don't like Royce, he did show up and beat everyone
they put in front of him. My friends and I all hated Royce and wanted to
see him get his ass kicked, but we begrudgingly respected the "skinny little
faggot," as one of my friends called him.
Rob
Savage Lizard
>
> > This month vrs Takada at Pride 2000.
>
> Fot the record, I agree with you concerning your perspectives. However,
I'm
> just letting you know that you may take some flak over this particular
> comment. I certainly did when I used Takada in an argument. You see,
most
> people here refer to Takada as "Tomato Can." For many different reasons,
> the people of this NG consider him a hack who works fights. They believe
> that he posesses no real skill, despite the fact that he has trained
Kazushi
> Sakuraba on different occasions. Besides, it seems irrelevant since
Takada
> will be fighting someone else. Either way, Royce has certainly answered
the
> criticisms and has entered a tournament with top fighters. As long as he
> doesn't bail out with an implausible excuse, I certainly don't have a
> problem with Royce.
I'm looking forward to seeing this. It will be interesting to see if he's
improved his game enough to hang.
Rob
JUMPINMF1
legitimazation of Art Jimmerson as a fighter in the MMA world.
this just shows what a shallow fan of the sport you are.
art jimmerson competed in UFC 1. nobody knew what do expect. he realized it
could get brutal in there, and he didn't know what these others fighters were
going to do. he stepped up, he put himself out there, and he deserves respect.
JUMPINMF1
===
i think he really believed he was going to win it all. royce showed him
reality.
JUMPINMF1
Shamrock heard that he wouldn't be fighting Royce he backed out of a fight with
the same guy Royce backed out of a fight with.
that's right, and don't even try the excuse that ken was "injured"... he
admitted he "lost his will" to fight harold howard.
Samoanpowr
reality.>>
After Ken's posturing, "monkey ass" comments (which are even MORE annoying
because he was copying a Samoan's comments), his WWF tirade against Perretti in
the Hotel and his completely out of place verbal attack on two fans at UFC XXII
that were wearing "Lion Tamer" Ortiz t-shirts, I don't really care for
him.................BUT
I think every fighter who signs for a tournament should actually believe that
they are going to win. I mean I don't wanna see a bunch of defeatists out
there who DON'T expect to win.
Samoa.
JUMPINMF1
===
there are only two kinds of good taps. the quick tap and the no tap.
anything in between means you took to long to realize you were fucked, and you
probably took some punishment that could hamper your training.
the no tap either means you win, or you have a code of honor you live by.
Samoanpowr
Hey, I'm Samoan....I'm SUPPOSED to be the last one to get it.
Samoa.
JUMPINMF1
> admitted he "lost his will" to fight harold howard.
LOL what a dick! My reply was posted a good 6 hours AT LEAST before you
posted that reply, by which time I'm sure your putile brain could have
possibly just worked out what I said. Did I make any excuses.......nay. I
do think Ken would have stepped in against Royce and I think he's a ussy for
not fighting Howard. Jump, we all know your really anal about Royce, but
that doesn't mean anyone who isn't loves Shamrock, I think Shamrock's a dong
just like you.
===
as usual i wasn't even talking to you.
Gichoke
>2. One thing that never gets mentioned is the UFC claimed it looked for
>the best fighters in the world yet put Kimo in, a man who's trainer
>essentially lied about his credentials(said he was a TKD black belt), and
>who apparently didn't even have an id card(remember they weren't sure of
>his last name). the fact that he was a decent fighter once he got in
>shouldn't have mattered.
The UFC can't get the martial arts legends to fight because these so-called
masters know they'd lose.They were invited.
Gi
Triangle Choke
Royce Wallid match in which Royce fights his 1st Brazilian grappler in
recent memories. Now go figure how he would have done if Rorion had brought
Sperry, Wallid, Bustamente, Bitetti, Gurgel, etc. along with Royce to the
early UFC's.
BJJ guys don't fight BJJ guys in NHB. Ryan vs Wallid maybe the exception if
it ever goes down, but that is a personal issue, not two BJJ guys with
nothing against each other entering the same tournament.
Samoa.
He's just making the point, that if those fighters fought in the same UFC as
Royce, he would have had a hard time winning and probably would have lost.
We all have heard you say "BJJ guys don't fight BJJ guys in NHB", but that
wasn't his point.
Triangle Choke
I think everyone was paid to fight in the first UFC, so I really don't give
them too much credit for fighting in the UFC.
Triangle Choke
Btw; if Royce was scared of Harold Howard so was Shamrock. Because after
Shamrock heard that he wouldn't be fighting Royce he backed out of a fight
with the same guy Royce backed out of a fight with.
===
admitted he "lost his will" to fight harold howard.
Where did he say he "lost his will"? I remember and I'm sure other people on
here heard that he wanted Royce in the final and Royce didn't make it to the
final, so Ken didn't fight, he wanted redemption.
Savage Lizard
news:13025-38723FDE-205@storefull-
Ken was good enough to have been considered to be good in
submissions (especially at that time), it's just that he screwed up and
got beat. It happens to fighters all the time.
I wonder if there's a chance in hell that you would apply this line of
thinking to the Royce-Wallid match. I doubt it.
Rob
The Killer Bear
and how he didn't think it was right for Takahashi to keep grabbing them all
night. Except for when he let go and then proceeded to beat on Wallid.
Matt Palmer <dub.s...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:84tn35$cng$1...@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net...
>
> Tim McNellie <twms...@pitt.edu> wrote in message
> news:38725241...@pitt.edu...
> > Matt Palmer wrote:
> >
> > > LOL, yeah I saw it recently, what an appalling show of hands eh! Just
> > > think, had he of met Sperry in the opening round of UFC 1........
> >
> ground
> > for 15 minutes with Sperry dominating position but unable to finish:
"Why
> the
> > feck are these Brazilians rolling around like a couple of homos?"
> >
> > If the early UFCs hadn't been a style-vs-style affair, nobody would have
> cared
> > about BJJ or groundfighting. If you stack the tournament with great BJJ
> > fighters, then no one will care about BJJ.
> The first tourney should have been Wallid vs. Royce and the rest how it
> should have been, at least Wallid wouldn't have cried due to rule changes
> after UFC 5.
>
>
>
The Killer Bear
> Real fight should not have the fence the grapplers can take
> advantage of or should not have the mat, on the ground,
> which nullify the devastating strikers power origin,firm
> ground.
You must not have been in any real fights. A real fight means that if I'm
in a bar and you look like you are about to hit me, I'm going to smash a
chair or a bottle over your goddamn head. If I'm on the beach, I'm going to
throw sand in your eyes or drench your ass in lighter fluid. Fighters who
intend on walking away alive will use whatever is necessary to win,
including firearms.
> In real fight, you can poke into their eyeballs or grab and
> squeeze or pull off their balls while they tackle and work
> on ground work. Without skills of attacking to eyes and
> groins, it is just one of another martial art matches.
Skills of attacking to eyes and groins??? What the fuck are you smoking?
Do you really think that it requires skill to attack the eyes or groin?!
> No matches of martial arts cannot be real fight.
So what you are trying to say is that martial arts matches are real fights?
What the hell are you trying to say? I suspect that you are claiming that
no martial arts matches can be considered real fights. Well, if that is
what you meant, you are wrong. Miyamoto Musashi and Kojiro Sasaki had a
"real" martial arts math in the 1600s. Musashi walked away - alive. They
had a "real" fight.
> Any martial art is good including amateur wrestling and
> bjj. Just keep practice your own art with respect every day.
Who the hell here doesn't practice their art with respect? If they
disrespected their art, why the hell would they be practicing it to begin
with? And by the way, what the hell are you talking about regarding "good"?
If you are trying to say effective, you are wrong. I can tell you right now
that if a practitioner of Tai Chi Chuan decided to scrap with me, I'd
fucking kill their ass and then run over their cold dead corpse with my car.
Sure, Tai Chi may look graceful and may enhance someone's notion of spirit,
but the techniques suck when used to defend oneself. If you disagree, show
me one fucking example where Tai Chi techniques have been used to defeat
anyone in the UFC. You may say that such an art is about developing the
spirit. If I wanted to develop my godddamn spirit, I'll go to a goddamn
church and ask a goddamn preacher of priest to give me some goddamn advice
about my goddamn life. I'm not going to swish my hands around like a panzy
thinking that what I'm doing will actually save my ass if the hammer drops.
> Thank you for reading this.
You are most welcome.
SPIDERMAN
>fatigue
Yes I`m aware of this. I was more implying that his back troubles would be
the after effects of maulings taken from the likes of Kimo, Severn Etc.....
>he was probably expecting a TKD flashy kicking ponce, he was surprised
>for sure!
I think they would have checked Kimo out before the fight and, once seeing
him , would not have expected a TKD flashy ponce.
>although I'd have given him the UFC 5 fight on points
Correct
>well you could look at it like...if he was a good fighter all in all, he
>should be able to win in any circumstances.
No that would take a good athlete...................such as Rickson.
>Imagine he hadcome up against Vanderlei Silva with no
>rules?
Imagine if Silva didn`t have access to his familys art ?
>Shamrock
>after his 6 months ground training aswell
Are you on crack ?
Six months ?
>you dont think he could have held Royce
>up like Kimo did?
Again you`ve misinterpreted what I`ve said.
You suggested, "imagine Vitor back then? cakewalk"
I replied that Belfort didn`t have the steam or technique (even now) to have
gotten through a three man tourney (back then) against heavier opponents the
likes of which Royce fought.
>don't patronise me,
No offense but I`ll do whatever the fuck I like .
>I roll with a guy who's 6'7 300lbs, he may not be a
>muscle bound freak but he's a bloody strong bastard and thats quite >enough
>for a small guy like me, oh and the guy does Sambo so he knows what >he's
>doing too.
Wow, and you don`t relate to injurys ?
Maybe you aint training hardcore enough .
It`s probably why your so cocky and devoid of respect .
>Vitor is bigger than
>Royce
That should tell you something about who`s got the better technique.
>he also knows anough not to get choked with or without a gi, he has
>more than enough skill on the ground.
How would you know ?
He`s only fought wearing a Gi once, against Joe Charles.
>He doesn't need to dominate o the
>goround, just like Vanderlei
Silva is twice the fighter Belfort is.
>answer me who has submitted Belfort due to Belfort being insuperior on >the
>ground?
Who has Belfort fought besides Couture that was even a threat on the ground
?
>same goes for Vanderlei
Besides fighting other Brazillians ?...............same as above.
>Militech has almost 40 MMA wins (all striking events)
Lots of desisions and most all the opponents were his own weight.
>he also went to a
>draw with Severn AFTER Severn had done a bit of X-training.
Royce beat Severn.
>If you think
>Pats biggest challenge was against Mikey Burnett then you haven't seen
>Superbrawl 11
I thought Mikey got the better of him, and no I haven`t seen Superbrawl 11.
I find Militech completely boring to watch as he struggles for a decision
time and time again against same size opponents.
>almost all
>the fighters Pat's beaten were better quality than Royce's opponent when
>they fought Royce.
Really ?
I think Shamrock , Smith or Kimo would kick the shit outa Militech.
>after getting choked against Wallid
He lasted five minutes against one of the best sport JJ guys in the world.
A game he doesn`t even play .
Are you fucked ?
>no dude, you is real unknowlegable
Yeah, I can see that.
>because his brother wasn't there to handpick the fighters and make sure
>the rules stayed the same yeah.
The brother thing really bothers you huh ?
>a good fighter fights under any rules
A good fighter wins in a no rules fight .
>but you think real fights have no eye
>gouging, no biting?
Honestly, when`s the last real fight you saw where biting and eye gouging
were a factor ?
<SNIP>
THE REDUNDANT RANT ABOUT WHAT
CONSTITUTES A REAL FIGHT
>Royce did sport fighting and
>every other event under any rules is sport fighting.
So a win at a TKD tourney holds the same weight as say.........a UFC win ?
>Royce vs.
>Vitor would be a funny fight to watch
I`d like to see Vitor fight Frank Shamrock.
>looks like!
Yes it do.
SPIDERMAN
>I'd fight Vovchanchin
I don`t believe you.
>I'd be inlined to call it stupidity though
I`d call it a fantasy.
>the Japanese public do like their fighting but they
>get so sucked in
Yes, so unlike Americans with WWF and Boxing.
>Sak would be good!
Other than Igor, he`d be about the most dangerous of the lot.
>I wish him luck anyways
I`m sure it`s heartfelt.
Peter Hobday
> <<You tell 'em big guy. While you're on your renting binge, get a copy of the
> Royce Wallid match in which Royce fights his 1st Brazilian grappler in recent
> memories. Now go figure how he would have done if Rorion had brought Sperry,
> Wallid, Bustamente, Bitetti, Gurgel, etc. along with Royce to the early
> UFC's.>>
>
> ever goes down, but that is a personal issue, not two BJJ guys with nothing
> against each other entering the same tournament.
My comment was speculative only.
Peter
Peter Hobday
> Jimmerson was such a warrior that he gave up without being put
> in a submission hold or recieving any strikes. All that Royce had to do
> was take him down and Jimmerson just tapped. I think that Jimmerson may
> be more deserving of the title of President of the Quick Tap Club than
> Remco. Oh well, maybe Remco can be Vice President or Treasurer or
> something....
Hall tapped BEFORE Varelans got his hands together for the keylock.
(maybe Frye paid him:)
Peter
Peter Hobday
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> What Jimmerson was billed as and what Jimmerson really was are
> two different things. Kimo was billed as a black belt in TKD when in
> reality he only had a few months of training in Joe Son Do. A lot of
> the early UFC fighters had records that were inflated and credentials
> that were padded.
Don't forget that Big Daddy was supposedly the Canadian Superheavyweight
Boxing Champ. I don't think anyone up here can recall 1 match that he was
in, and he certainly was no champ (although Oleg's head might disagree).
Peter
Peter Hobday
JUMPINMF1 (jump...@aol.com) writes:
> How about tapping without your opponent applying a hold? See the look of
> bewilderment on Royce's face when the ref ended the match?
> ===
>
> i see a guy who realizes his is S.O.L. doing the smartest possible thing at
> that moment.
Would you give up with a guy on your back doing nothing? I'm pretty sure
Jimmerson didn't have a clue who or what Royce represented, therefore he
probably said to himself "fuck this, this is the promoter's brother and I
get paid whatever happens - it's Miller Time!!".
Peter
Peter Hobday
> the whole point of the early UFCs was for Rorion and Royce to make lots of
> money and sew the seed of Gracie JJ for the future in America. By
> showcasing striking martial arts just shows how in favour of BJJ it was.
> ===
>
> the striking arts reigned supreme at that time.
>
> THAT is why they were featured.
Hate to correct you Big Guy, but the striking arts weren't supreme at the
time - people just thought they were.
Now we see that a superb grappler who ALSO is a superb striker can make
the fight one or the other according to his preferences. I really am
coming to believe that it's the Pedro Rizzo's and Igor's of the MMA world
that are going to win regularly as opposed to excellent grapplers who are
sorta good strikers (i.e. Couture, Erikson, Kerr).
I think we already know what happens to excellent strikers who are just
mediocre on the ground (listening Mo?).
Peter
JUMPINMF1
admitted he "lost his will" to fight harold howard.
--------
Where did he say he "lost his will"?
"ultimate shamrock"
Peter Hobday
> I can see Royce's thoughts
> ===
>
> i don't think so, peter "hobday"... i think you see the thoughts of the
> anti-royce.
Sorry, I was gonna say "I can see Royce's thoughts <now>", but I figured no
one would be anal enough to raise the topic. BTW, isn't the Anti-Royce
supposed to happen soon? I thought Revelations 13 and 14 were Y2K-related.
Peter
YENDOR3
boxer
when compared to other boxers.>>
In Arts prime he was atleast a top 20 light heavyweight.That is pretty
impressive.
<< Being ranked by an organization in boxing means very
little in some cases.>>
You are right but it was for one of the top 3 sanctioning bodies.
<< There are about a million of them,>>
There are 3 widely recognized ones and about 5 junk ones.
<< and when Art Jimmerson
clashed with real ranked boxers, he was usually beaten in the first few
rounds.>>
I will try to dig up some info on atrs career.
<< He
was a very mediocre boxer. Laverne Clark is a mediocre boxer as well, but he
can
outclass some of his opponents with the skills he has obtained.>>
Art Jimmerson would have totally outclassed Clark in a boxing match.
<<Nobody got to see
what Art Jimmerson could do, >>
I give him credit for even fighting in the UFC at the time.No other boxers will
do it.
YENDOR3
<<By boxing standards he'd be a bum. A bum being a guy with a below .500
record, and
is more of a journeyman. It all depends on how you categorize people.>>
I know that Art had a much higher % record than that.I would bet he won at
least 75% of his fights.
YENDOR3
<<bottom line, art jimmerson was not a ground fighter, and he was up against a
master ground fighter. there is NO shame in losing to royce gracie, and there
is NO shame in wearing a boxing glove to the FIRST UFC ever.>>
I'm not defending Art but he was unfortunate enough to be Gracies first victim.
Andrew Jacobs
dub.s...@virgin.net (Matt Palmer) Re: "The Gracie Fix" until he met
Kimo ...
JUMPINMF1 <jump...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000104184420...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
The bottom line is that Jimmerson wore one glove because he didn't know
what the FUCK he was doing and really had no business getting in there
in the first place.
===
who are you to say what art jimmerson should or shouldn't do? ===
because its a free country and a free newsgroup DOH
===
this is not the
libertarian spirit andrew. the libertarian spirit is one of toleration
and equanimity. defining what is art jimmerson's business is a terrible
breach on your part.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, it is the Libertarian spirit because I'm using my freedom
of speech to express that I feel that Art Jimmerson was not qualified to
be a UFC fighter.
Andrew Jacobs
b...@armbar.com (Triangle Choke) Re: "The Gracie Fix" until he met Kimo
..
Btw; if Royce was scared of Harold Howard so was Shamrock. Because after
Shamrock heard that he wouldn't be fighting Royce he backed out of a
fight with the same guy Royce backed out of a fight with.
===
admitted he "lost his will" to fight harold howard.
--------
people on here heard that he wanted Royce in the final and Royce didn't
make it to the final, so Ken didn't fight, he wanted redemption.
Ken had recently injured his knee in Pancrase and the injury was
aggarvated while fighting in UFC III. Shit happens. Just ask Marco
Ruas...
Andrew Jacobs
dub.s...@virgin.net (Matt Palmer) Re: "The Gracie Fix" until he met
Kimo ...
SPIDERMAN <ppa...@direct.ca> wrote in message
news:wCGc4.1396$B6.1...@brie.direct.ca...
I don`t believe you.
whats the big deal, have you ever been knocked out? I have loads of
time, its alot less painfull than getting choked or arm-barred. Its
quick and painless and do you know how much money I'd get for fighting
him??? bucks.
===
I`d call it a fantasy.
you can call it what you like LOL
===
if thats a childish pop at me then congrats. I'm English and most Boxing
is real plus I hate Pro wrestling, as does the rest of the British
public, probably alot of Americans too
---------------------------------------------------------------
How could you say that the rest of the British public hates "pro
wrestling" when the WWF does big business in England? Summer Slam '92
from Wembley Stadium was sold out with over 80,000 fans and was one of
the WWF's biggest live gates ever. Hell, there's even a "pro
wrestling" magazine published in England called "Powerslam". And
there's more Brits on the rec.sports-pro-wrestling newsgroup than there
are here (and a lot more posters in general for that matter). It sounds
to me like you don't have your facts straight on this one.
Triangle Choke
that's right, and don't even try the excuse that ken was "injured"... he
admitted he "lost his will" to fight harold howard.
--------
Where did he say he "lost his will"?
"ultimate shamrock"
======
The ultimate shamrock hater watches the ultimate shamrock show LOL
Savage Lizard
> I don't hate Royce, but it was so obvious everything was set up right for
> him, I do respect him but not the fact he didn't fight ater the frule
> changes, a good fighter will fight any rules. He does have a chance to
> redeem himself if he wins the Pride tourney though.
Hey, it's all about marketing. From that aspect, the UFC was a huge success
for Rorion. The Gracies went from being virtually unknown in this country
to being well-known and their school and videos raked the cash in.
I am looking forward to the Pride tournament. I've been out of the loop for
awhile, when is that going down?
Rob
Andrew Jacobs
yen...@aol.comnojunk (YENDOR3) Re: "The Gracie Fix" until he met Kimo
..
When was Jimmerson's prime? In which promotion was he ranked in
the top 20? How long was he ranked there? There have been many
questionable rankings in pro boxing so being in a top 20 list doesn't
necessarily mean anything.
Clark is in a lower weight class than Jimmerson. Even so, if
the two fought in a MMA match I'd definetely pick Clark to win. Clark
has done some wrestling in the past and he trains with Pat Miletich who
is one of the best trainers in the game. Clark also showed much more of
a warrior spirit in his NHB fights than Jimmerson showed against Royce
(hell, Jimmerson showed no warrior spirit at all with the exception of
the fact that he got in there).
Another boxer named Melton Bowen fought Steve Jennum at UFC IV
and his performance was much better than Jimmerson's. Sure, he was
fighting Jennum as opposed to Royce and he had a better idea of what to
expect but he still got taken to the ground pretty easily. However,
once there he didn't punk out like Jimmerson did. Unlike Jimmerson, at
least he gave it a good try and put up a decent fight before tapping out
after being put in an arm bar.
Angel Cruz
>goes to show he can onkly fight one game. With other rules that show not
>just the better martial artist but the better athelite he doesn't enter,
>tells you something
The first couple of UFCs were the closest thing we had to No Holds Barred.
The main intent and what made it so enjoyable, was to showcase martial arts
style against another. What it showed is that on a one-on-one contest, the
ground and submission skills were far superior than the stand up and
striking skills.
No matter how hard the karatekas and kung fu artists tried to hit and kick,
the grappler took them to the ground.
The later UFCs inserted rules to make the show more palatable to the
audience. People prefer to see boxing/karate match than see a couple of
guys rolling around for an hour.
The time limit and stand up rules, then, bastardized the original concept of
one style vs another by giving strikers more chances to connect.
Royce is 175 pounds. Do you really think he can stand there and exchange
blows with a 230 pound striker? Well, the newer rules would've forced him
to do just that.
Andrew Jacobs
r...@savagelizard.com (Savage Lizard) Re: "The Gracie Fix" until he met
Kimo ...
I certainly would and do, however, there is a difference between
the two matches. In Ken vs. Royce I you had a guy who'd been training
for a relatively short period of time and had limited expierence in Ken,
vs. a guy who'd been training his entire life and had lots of expierence
in Royce. In Wallid vs. Royce, you had two guys who'd been training in
the same style for many years going up against eachother. Now, it's
certainly possible that Royce could win in a re-match but the fact is
that he had just as much expierence and probably even more expierence
than Wallid had and yet he got beat whereas Ken did not have much
expierence at all and had in fact never faced a BJJ fighter before in
his life. That is the difference.
Andrew Jacobs
news:Kikc4.51$xe3....@news2.randori.com...
What about Ken Shamrock? - The former King of Pancrase. Did you forget
that Royce choked his ass out during the first UFC?
And for the record, Ken is supposed to be a competant grappler
(according to many of the enlightened folks here in our wonderful NG);
not some paper tiger hack.
You don't know Andrew. He lives with Ken Shamrock's nutsack firmly
lodged in his mouth at all times. Andrew's mission in life is to pump up
anything related to Shamrock, and belittle anything that Royce did.
--------------------------------------------------------------
And you don't know what the FUCK you are talking about as usual.
You keep repeating this LIE that I worship Ken Shamrock just as Jump
worships Royce Gracie and that is PURE BULLSHIT. If Ken were to fight
Igor Vovchachin, Mark Kerr, or, Tom Erikson, I'd consider Ken to be
the UNDERDOG. In fact, I think that there's a very good chance that
Igor V. could knock Ken out while standing. Ken's only chace against
Igor V. would be to submitt him on the ground. Igor V.'s ground defense
is good though so it wouldn't be an easy thing for Ken to do and if the
fight went back to the feet Ken would be in some serious trouble.
There's other fighters out there today that could give Ken a tough
battle that could go either way such as Rizzo and Randleman for
instance. I don't build Ken up as some kind of invincible warrior. I
really don't know how he'd do today. If he's still in good physical
condition I think that he could be top ten caliber today but if his
physical condition has gone down hill he may be reduced to a lower
status. I think that Ken was one of the best when he was competing and
that he has been about the most sucessful trainer in MMA thus far given
the accomplishments of the guys that have trained with him.
As far as Royce's accomplishments go, sure, he was good in his
day. While it's true that he came from a family that did vale tudo
their whole lives and he fought guys who were newbies to vale tudo, the
fact that he was able to defeat some of the guys that he defeated was
kind of impressive. I don't think that he could beat some of them now
(like Kimo and Severn), but the fact that he beat them back then was
still kind of impressive when you look at the size differences that he
was giving up in some of the matches. Although, some of the guys that
Royce beat were TOTAL TOMATO CANS (Jimmerson, Ichihara, Van Clief)
and this is something that can't be denied. Royce opened the world's
eyes up to BJJ and groundfighting but as a trainer he really hasn't
accomplished much. The best guy he ever trained was Joe Pardo, not
exactly a 1st tier fighter. It seems to me that the people who actually
fight in competitions know where to go for the best training and they
aren't exactly beating down the door to get in Royce's dojo so that
should tell you something. None the less, I will say that GJJ is
better than 98% of what's out there (YMCA karate lessons and San Fu
bullshit and stuff like that).
Andrew Jacobs
(Angel Cruz) Re: "The Gracie Fix" until he met Kimo ...
Pat Miletich is 170 lbs. and the newer rules haven't stopped him.
Plus, Pat has fought under several different sets of rules and has even
taken on bigger guys like Dan Severn and he's done it in the era of
crosstraining.
Samoanpowr
Royce, he would have had a hard time winning and probably would have lost. We
all have heard you say "BJJ guys don't fight BJJ guys in NHB", but that wasn't
his point.>>
We've all heard you say lots of things, but you keep saying them. I know what
his point was. If Igor Vovchanchin was in it Royce probably would have had a
hard time winning too....If a lot of things.
Samoa.
Samoanpowr
has fought under several different sets of rules and has even taken on bigger
guys like Dan Severn and he's done it in the era of
crosstraining.>>
What tournament has Pat entered with the RINGS type rules where he was facing
much bigger fighters?
Btw; as I read it the guy was talking about Royce fighting 230 lb strikers.
Dan could be 400 lbs but he will never be a "striker" to any extent of the
imagination.
Samoa.
SPIDERMAN
Yes.
>I have loads of time
That should speak volumes to you.
>its alot less painfull than getting choked or arm-barred.
Oh really ?
>Its quick and
>painless and do you know how much money I'd get for fighting him??? >bucks.
Of course you`d have to okay it with the promoter, and pay per view
might be stretching it.
>LOL
Yeah your a real hoot.
>if thats a childish pop at me then congrats. I'm English and most Boxing
is
>real plus I hate Pro wrestling, as does the rest of the British public,
>probably alot of Americans too
Touché .
>You think Sak is a better fighter than Kerr?
Kerr is big and powerfull .
Sak is a better fighter.
>are you purposely being a cock?
Yes, but I can see it comes naturally for you.
SPIDERMAN
>view but don't talk about things you don't know about.
Man you need a mirror.
>Had he have been crap TKD guy, Royce would have beaten him easily
>but he wasn't.
You really believe the entire Gracie camp, after living and breathing a
fighters life for as long as they have, looked at Kimo Leopoldo and said
don`t worry Royce............cakewalk ?
You think Rickson, who was training Royce (up until UFC 4), would be waveing
off Kimo as a TKD ponce ?
Well my man, I believe they take a fight more seriously than that.
I believe they would have attempted a stratagy of tie up and wind.......and
Kimo just proved too strong.
I thought 178 pound Royce did an amazing job against a beserk, roided out
nutbar.
I`ve met Kimo, his head is the size of a medicine ball.
>man you are arrogant
Your in denial.
>he is NOT the king of NHB.
No, he is the "FATHER" of NHB.
>Rickson is over the hill now.
So leave him alone.
He`s done enough to stand beside the greats you pompous piece of shit.
>If you're
>going to argue with people here, you are going to need to do alot more
>thinking and alot less talking shit.
Yeah ?
Fuck you loser.
>You clearly are a beginner in the
>world of NHB and need to do some research
Why ?
I`ve watched pretty much everything out there, the fact that I don`t know
details like Pat Mitiletch`s fuckin` diaper size doesn`t concern me in the
least.
I see shit that works and I integrate it in my own training.
I also believe I understand what is going on between two opponents
when I`m watching the fight.
That`s good enough for me.
>LOL
It`s really gay when you do that .
>what a stupid thing to say.
Really ?
Read this...........
"If there was no family art, Royce would be a skinny runt getting the crap
kicked out of him, but no, he does know the art and his family teach it to
make lots of money,thats how Vanderlei learned, but just because Royce is
far better at sport jiu-jitsu, Vanderlei is far better at MMA"
>LOL
Shut up !
>you tell
>us how much training Shamrock had.
He began his fight training as a young teenager under the guidance of his
adoptive father Bob Shamrock.
>shootfighting was only
>INVENTED in 1992 by a bunch of Japanese guys (one being Funaki), >sure
people
>did shoot competitions before then, shoot wrestling competition has been
>around since the 60's and perhaps before. .
Yikes.
>Shamrock learned all he knew
>submission wise from the Japanese and this only started in 1992
So what ?
He was older than Royce when they first fought.
Bin` fighting most of his life.
It`s his own fault he didn`t know submissions.
Now fuck you bitch for turning the conversation once again.
You said......
>perhaps Shamrock
>after his 6 months ground training
Shamrock had been wrestling since his teens.
Wrestling is ground training.
We weren`t talking submission experience fuckhead.
>Vitor had crap cardio and no JJ technique.
Yes .
>Do you even know who Vitor Belfort is?
Yes, little Royler did a better job against Sak.
Vitor is a natural one punch.
His limited JJ skills are well known by all who`ve watched him fight.
Hopes for an olympic boxing bid are now in doubt because it has become
apparent his lack of skills and overall performance in this arena are as
well, under par.
>the Kimo fight was shorted than the Belfort vs. Couture fight
>and Royce couldn't carry on.
Royce was fighting someone 70 pounds heavier.
Royce won.
Vitor was fighting someone ten pounds heavier.
Vitor lost.
>what are you 12, 13?
35 .
>maybe its past your bedtime
Bitch.
>LOL
Fag.
>Its ok not to be knowledgable, but to pretend, is
>ignorance and arrogance.
I`d like to kick your face in.
>did he get choked out?
Did you ever wonder why he wore a Gi for that particular fight and little or
no punches were thrown against Charles ?
You see nothing cupcake.
>LOL
If we were face to face I guarantee I`d knock your teeth out.
>Vitor beat Vanderlei in less than a minute in the UFC
Yes he had a bad day.
Silva is a way better fighter .
>Joe Charles was a black belt at Judo
Fat and old.
>Tre Telligman has fought at Abu Dhabi
>and is a good submission fighter
He always loses and he`s missing half his chest.
>LOL
Fuck off.
>MOST of his oppnents outweighed him ,maybe by only 10lbs or so but
>it makes difference
Yet most of Royces opponents outweighed him by fifty or more pounds
and it doesn`t ?
>see you pick on the uninportant facts though, more to
>the point the people he beat were of better standard than Royce's
>opponents
>at the time they fought Royce.
Most all Royces victories were won fighting three opponents one after the
other.
>LOL
Die !
>Pat drew him about 3 years later
Royce beat him.
>he only has 2 losses and 2 draws
How many descisions ?
>I think he'd be alot
>better against Mike in a rematch too
Mikey called him out on TV and in the press .
Guess what ?
Aint nobody home.
>Shamrock at UFC 1, Kimo at UFC 3 and Severn at UFC 4, I'd
>pick Militech over all of these.
They woulda killed him with the rules as they were.
>LOL
You wear a dress.
>a game he doesn't even play?
Wallid has competed non stop sport JJ for a decade.
Royce hasn`t competed sport JJ in a decade.
Sport JJ allows one to become comfortable in amassing a great deal of
winning techniques that, although effective in a non striking competition,
leave you wide open to many attacks should you attempt them in a NHB
arena.
Watch Wallid fight NHB and count how many times he takes shots.
Royce made a big mistake going there.
The fact that he lasted five minutes is amazing.
>my dear god, you know less than I thought
You write more than you think.
>LOL
Pussey.
>You have clearly never been in a
>street fight
Think whatever you want .
>A piece of advice, next time someone starts
>on you, don't go for the guard LOL, headbutt him and kick him in the balls,
>otherwise your mommy will be phoning an ambulance.
A piece of advice, don`t come to Canada and look me up.
>did I even imply they held the same weight
Yes, now please fuck off your annoying.
Triangle Choke
LOL!!yeah i think it's pretty funny now that the time is drawing near for
the return of royce, all the little butt monkeys are getting agitated...
they are spewing out the IFs on the past, and the IFs on the future like
there's no tomorrow...and for many them... tomorrow will come all too
soon...to all the bandwagon riders it must suck to know your favorite
fighter may be losing to royce gracie soon.... what IF... the thought is
too much to bear, isn't it? i can't wait until the whole new royce
bandwagon starts up, i'm
going to be naming names. LOL
-----------
Hey jumpy i see your confidence in your fighter Royce is changing from he's
going to school everybody, to he MIGHT beat a fighter LOL what do you now
doubt he's going to school everyone and win? I have the up most confidence
he will lose and I won't change my mind like some people that have lost
confidence in there fighter.
Triangle Choke
"ultimate shamrock"
===
LOL Jumps new bible
-------------
I wonder why there wasn't an "Ultimate Gracie"?
Savage Lizard
Group: alt.ufc Date: Tue, Jan 4, 2000, 11:36pm From:
Kimo ...
The Killer Bear <kille...@mad.scientist.com> wrote in message
news:Kikc4.51$xe3....@news2.randori.com...
What about Ken Shamrock? - The former King of Pancrase. Did you forget
that Royce choked his ass out during the first UFC?
And for the record, Ken is supposed to be a competant grappler
(according to many of the enlightened folks here in our wonderful NG);
not some paper tiger hack.
You don't know Andrew. He lives with Ken Shamrock's nutsack firmly
lodged in his mouth at all times. Andrew's mission in life is to pump up
anything related to Shamrock, and belittle anything that Royce did.
--------------------------------------------------------------
> And you don't know what the FUCK you are talking about as usual.
> You keep repeating this LIE that I worship Ken Shamrock just as Jump
> worships Royce Gracie and that is PURE BULLSHIT.
I don't have to say anything, your own words demonstrate how much you are in
love with Shamrock. You constantly make excuses for him, pump up his
accomplishments, ignore the fact that he bores the shit out of most people,
re-write history in your observations of the second Gracie-Shamrock fight,
etc., etc. Everyone in the NG can see it, I don't have to say a word.
I'm not sure what your fixation is with him. Is it because he is now an
actor in your favorite "sport?" Maybe if you pump up Shamrock, that somehow
makes Pro Wrestling more legitimate?
> If Ken were to fight
> Igor Vovchachin, Mark Kerr, or, Tom Erikson, I'd consider Ken to be
> the UNDERDOG. In fact, I think that there's a very good chance that
> Igor V. could knock Ken out while standing. Ken's only chace against
> Igor V. would be to submitt him on the ground. Igor V.'s ground defense
> is good though so it wouldn't be an easy thing for Ken to do and if the
> fight went back to the feet Ken would be in some serious trouble.
> There's other fighters out there today that could give Ken a tough
> battle that could go either way such as Rizzo and Randleman for
> instance. I don't build Ken up as some kind of invincible warrior. I
> really don't know how he'd do today. If he's still in good physical
> condition I think that he could be top ten caliber today but if his
> physical condition has gone down hill he may be reduced to a lower
> status. I think that Ken was one of the best when he was competing and
> that he has been about the most sucessful trainer in MMA thus far given
> the accomplishments of the guys that have trained with him.
Of course you would have to consider him an underdog, he would get his ass
handed to him by any of those guys.
> As far as Royce's accomplishments go, sure, he was good in his
> day. While it's true that he came from a family that did vale tudo
> their whole lives and he fought guys who were newbies to vale tudo, the
> fact that he was able to defeat some of the guys that he defeated was
> kind of impressive.
Yeah, and Shamrock fought that same group, yet was never able to finish a
tournament. Then he gets a second chance at Royce and sleeps in Royce's
guard, all the while supposedly redeeming himself.
> I don't think that he could beat some of them now
> (like Kimo and Severn), but the fact that he beat them back then was
> still kind of impressive when you look at the size differences that he
> was giving up in some of the matches.
We actually agree on something. Royce had the advantage that most of the
early fighters didn't know his game. But he still beat them, and still won
three UFCs, Shamrock won none. I don't even really care about Royce, I just
get tired of the Shamrock Myth.
> Although, some of the guys that
> Royce beat were TOTAL TOMATO CANS (Jimmerson, Ichihara, Van Clief)
> and this is something that can't be denied. Royce opened the world's
> eyes up to BJJ and groundfighting but as a trainer he really hasn't
> accomplished much. The best guy he ever trained was Joe Pardo, not
> exactly a 1st tier fighter. It seems to me that the people who actually
> fight in competitions know where to go for the best training and they
> aren't exactly beating down the door to get in Royce's dojo so that
> should tell you something. None the less, I will say that GJJ is
> better than 98% of what's out there (YMCA karate lessons and San Fu
> bullshit and stuff like that).
I think if you're trying to make a sly attempt at a slam on me, you should
use the correct name, San Soo. And yes, one of the reasons I stopped going
to San Soo is that I felt a lot of the techniques were impractical.
However, I did learn some valuable things in that class, so it wasn't a
waste of time.
Rob
Savage Lizard
>
> Savage Lizard <r...@savagelizard.com> wrote in message
> news:s778o4...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Matt Palmer <dub.s...@virgin.net> wrote in message
> > news:8500n8$5r9$1...@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net...
> > > I don't hate Royce, but it was so obvious everything was set up right
> for
> > > him, I do respect him but not the fact he didn't fight ater the frule
> > > changes, a good fighter will fight any rules. He does have a chance
to
> > > redeem himself if he wins the Pride tourney though.
> >
> > Hey, it's all about marketing. From that aspect, the UFC was a huge
> success
country
> > to being well-known and their school and videos raked the cash in.
> >
> > I am looking forward to the Pride tournament. I've been out of the loop
> for
> > awhile, when is that going down?
> >
> > Rob
> you been on holiday or just off the net? its on the 22nd of this month I
> think and the bracket was released today, the first round is set, I don't
> know how they'll do the rest. Basically the first round is in Jan and
then
> the last 8 remaining fighters go through to an 8 man tourney to be held in
> March ( I think) but I don't know if they'll be using the same brackets or
> just what but more info http://news.adcombat.com/
I have definitely been WAY out of the loop. I haven't been to the NG in
many months, got busy with many things, didn't have the time. I just
recently heard about the GRand Prix event from a friend of mine, from what
he was telling me, it should be good. I haven't seen shit about it though,
no pairings, no dates. Thanks for the update!
How in the hell did Metzger get in there, even as an alternate???
Rob
Savage Lizard
> But you can think I have my facts wrong, thats up to you
> dude, but I can tell you pro wrestling is NOT big here, I live here, its
not
> big at all.
I'm jealous! That stupid shit is on TV over here all the time. And they
have a friggin' PPV almost every week. I don't watch them, but they are
taking up a channel that could be used to broadcast something good.
Rob
Savage Lizard
news:8517tb$qns$1...@news.chorus.net...
Probably because the current regime at SEG takes every chance to curry favor
with Shamrock. I guess they are hoping to attract his legion of mongoloid
Pro Wrestling fans.
Rob
Dre Estwd
it
could get brutal in there, and he didn't know what these others fighters were
going to do. he stepped up, he put himself out there, and he deserves
respect.>>>
He has my respect for getting into the Octagon, but that doesn't change
the fact that he was a can.
Bob Savage
> whats the big deal, have you ever been knocked out? I have loads of time,
> painless and do you know how much money I'd get for fighting him??? bucks.
The problem is, unless you're a big guy, there's a good chance that Igor
would bust the bones in your face into little pieces, and maybe break your
neck when your head does The Linda Blair (tm). I wouldn't take any amount
of cash for that kind of punishment.
Bob
JUMPINMF1
Samoa.
====
LOL!!
JUMPINMF1
and equanimity. defining what is art jimmerson's business is a terrible
breach on your part.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, it is the Libertarian spirit because I'm using my freedom
of speech to express that I feel that Art Jimmerson was not qualified to
be a UFC fighter.
====
what a hypocrite you are. you are supposed to be about minding your own
fucking business, instead you mind everybody else's business. it has nothing
to do with freedom of speech, you can talk all you wish, but what you are
talking about is ignorant and racist. it's no secret around here that you are
always the first to attack the reputations of blacks and brazilian fighters,
while kissing the asses of white males like ken shamrock, and all your pro
wrestling heart throbs. it's disgusting.
JUMPINMF1
===
LOL Jumps new bible
===
i gained a whole new respect for ken shamrock, watching that the other night.
he really is very good at lying and puffing himself up. i think it's pretty
funny that the only time he gets his panties in a bunch is when they get to the
fight with royce. all of a sudden ken is all "i put a beating on his monkey
ass" blah blah. he says he knocked royce out of NHB, made him "lose his
warrior spirit." i think ken is a piece a shit for saying that, but SEG is a
piece of shit for letting him rewrite history for the UFC.
ken clearly sold out, and now he betrays the sport he claims to love by telling
lies about a great champion, and a man who schooled him like a white belt.
the bottom line to that whole story, ken's little bullshit aside, is that royce
will be fighting in a few weeks, and ken will not.
ken is washed up. all he does now is talk shit.
JUMPINMF1
>
> THAT is why they were featured.
Hate to correct you Big Guy, but the striking arts weren't supreme at the
time - people just thought they were.
===
that was my whole point.
apparently a few people need to brush up on their "hooked on phonics"...
YENDOR3
Some guys won't tap out and I respect that.It's not the smartest thing when it
comes to arm bars though.
<<LOL anyon who gets choked unconcious is worse than the guy you described
above.going unconcious is the worst by far,>>
I would rather be choked out than quit like Tank did against MO smith.
<<if ever it highlights 'who's the
biggest twat' then it is this. For family honour??? he was beaten, he just
didn't have the manliness to tap (like Royler, Royler did the best thing he
could) >>
Manliness to tap?You need to roll on the mat some more.A good fighter can get
out of things when a guy like you would think he was beaten.
<<not tapping jsut shows ignorance and stupidity, PLEASE tell us you
don't respect him for this.>>
I lost a Judo match during Randori by being choked out once.Am I stupid?
<<Not tapping at all is one step further down the line from a slow tap,
because he not only realised too late...he didn't realise at all >>
I didn't realize it it because I had been in the same situation atleast 100
times and got out of it.The guy who beat me outweighed me by 50 pounds and got
lucky.I beat him every time before and after the time I went nite nite.Not for
1 second did I think he would get it.It was fast and perfect.The reason I say
he got lucky was because that was the only time he won.
<<and
probably still doesn't LOL >>
He knew after about 1 minute.It really is quite the experience being choked
out.I have never felt so at peace and rested before.Maybe that's because I was
almost dead.lol
<<this is NOT the sign of an honourable man, you
tit.>>
You are an idiot troll.
Bob Savage
> well it is possible but I've had my jaw broken by a guy much bigger than
> Igor and unfortunately I didn't get paid. The chances are very unlikely,
> its a personal choice. Thats like saying you wouldn't get into a boxing
> ring bacause it could cause you a blood clot in the brain. There are
> chances, you weigh them up and make a descision.
He may have been bigger than Igor, but how was his technique compared to
Igor's? I think you're discounting how much good striking technique adds to
the punch, or, as you alluded to in another thread maybe you really are just
stupid enough to not fear a crack in the melon by someone with the power and
technique of Igor. For me, I would pass, most definitely.
By the way, how big is "much bigger" than Igor? Igor is a very large man.
Bob
SPIDERMAN
>mails.
Actually your unbelievably boring.
Your saying nothing new here by pulling out dissected bits of hindsight and
trying to put todays fighters in the past to justify why Royce won then and
why he wouldn`t now.
We all know.
And no one really expects much outa him in 2000 against a much tougher and
improved breed of MA.
You obviously spend a great deal of time compiling facts from multiple
sources to arm yourself with every facet of information of every fight that
ever was.
Good for you .
I however have niether the patience nor interest to collect so much trivia
about other peoples lives.
I call it like I see it.
You call it like you`ve read it............obsesively.
I don`t think your at all the tough, Igor fightin,` toothless, sparrin` with
300 pound partners, bin knocked out dozens of times limey hardcore you claim
to be.
I think your a fact fetish piece of mouthy shit who`s probably never taken a
shot.
In fact I`ll bet you live with your parents .
>I have family in Canada, you'd be white as a sheet if you opened
>the door to my ugly mug LOL
You`ve got my email address, feel free to drop me a line if you ever visit.
And make sure you give me a nice big LOL cupcake.
JUMPINMF1
with Shamrock. I guess they are hoping to attract his legion of mongoloid
Pro Wrestling fans.
judging from the posts around here lately, it's working.