Great Xena Merch
Romar666
In article
<C0C06B37AEE54BC4.CEB49DFE...@library-proxy.airnews.
net>, myo...@wwonline.com (Melanie Young) writes:
>Subject: Re: Great Xena Merch
>From: myo...@wwonline.com (Melanie Young)
>Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:36 GMT
>
>On 24 May 1997 17:44:13 GMT, K GYPSY wrote:
>
>>Hi people. I found a great place to get Xena merchandise: Power Star.
>>
>>They only took about 2 weeks to send my order and everything was at a
>>reasonable price.
>>
>>Check out their website at : http://pages.prodigy.com/tvmerch
>
>Okay. So let's say I believe that the people posting these messages
>are satisfied customers of whatever.
>
>Okay, let's say I believe that they want to share their knowledge of
>this great place to buy Xena stuff.
>
>Why don't they read the newsgroup and notice that other "satisfied
>customers" have already advised us of this place.
>
>Repeatedly.
>
>
>
Because if they dont harass us with their repetitive posting then they
don't get their free picture.
ROMAR666 }}} :-)
CYBER--MOM SAYS:
"Don't put that in your mouth, You don't know where that's been"
Aethe...@worldnet.att.net
Nor the points for the toaster oven of their choice.
Although I would like a new VCR: how do I sign up and spread
the news? And how many points do I need for one?
Michael Martinez
In article <19970525203...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, roma...@aol.com (Romar666) wrote:
>Because if they dont harass us with their repetitive posting then they
>don't get their free picture.
Ron, which wastes more bandwidth? 1 announcement about PowerStar or five
followups complaining about it? 100 announcements about PowerStar or 500
followups harrassing the people who posted them?
These complaints about PowerStar are giving Brian an AWFUL LOT OF FREE
PUBLICITY. Most of the PowerStar articles are NOT qualifying as compensated
articles by anyone's definition.
If I see an article saying go to http://pages.prodigy.com/tvmerch every day, I
won't be upset. If I see a half-dozen followups to that article every day,
beating on the person for taking advantage of a sweet deal, I might get upset.
If I find that Kevin or someone else has cancelled this article because I
mentioned the PowerStar web site at http://pages.prodigy.com/tvmerch I will
not be a happy camper, and I know how to complain to ISPs, ISPs' ISPs, and
every postmaster and abuse account in the Path: line.
Think about it guys. If you count up all the "Great/Cool" merchandise
announcements and then tally up the complaints about them, I think you will
find that the allegedly compensated articles are vastly outnumbered by the
complaints (including those which cite the allegedly compensated articles in
toto).
So, if everyone wants to stop seeing articles about PowerStar, they will
contribute to about an 80% reduction in PowerStar traffic by not following up
with their own PowerStar articles.
Publicity -- especially free publicity -- seldom hurts a business. Brian
Kushner obviously isn't compensating most of the people who are talking about
his web site (he's certainly not compensating ME in any way -- I don't buy
Xena merchandise over the 'Net). I'd say he's on the short end of the stick
this time around.
So, there you have it. There's no need for content-based-cancels (which would
be a very BAD thing for this newsgroup and Usenet on the whole).
--
++ ++ "Well Samwise: What do you think of the elves now?"
||\ /|| --fbag...@mid.earth.com
|| v ||ichael Martinez (mma...@basis.com)
++ ++------------------------------------------------------
Michael Martinez
In article <C0C06B37AEE54BC4.CEB49DFE...@library-proxy.airnews.net>, myo...@wwonline.com (Melanie Young) wrote:
>Why don't they read the newsgroup and notice that other "satisfied
>customers" have already advised us of this place.
That's a rather naive request. Why don't people read the news group, see we
all like Xena and Gabrielle, and stop posting the equivalent of "me too"
posts?
There is nothing wrong with 100 people posting articles saying they found a
good deal with any particular merchant. Nothing in Usenet conventions forbid
it, nothing in alt.tv.xena's charter (which I wrote and no one has objected
to thus far in the months that it's been posted) forbids it, and demanding
that people stop talking about any particular web site is as close to an
infringement on freedom of speech as an unorganized group of people (such as
newsgroup subscribers tend to be) can come.
The same topics come up repeatedly in news groups. People who don't know any
better will post the same great announcements about all sorts of things. How
many times have you seen articles describing Tom Simpson's web site as the
ultimate Xena page? How many followups have you seen to requests for info
that mention Xena Online Resources?
If you guys succeed in shutting down PowerStar announcements, who is next, and
why?
Offering a discount for making an announcement on the Usenet is NOT a shady
deal. Nor is true compensation. GIVING the discount is compensatory, but so
what? I'd much rather see 100 PowerStar announcements than 200 followups
accusing everyone who mentions PowerStar of having sold their souls or
something.
Brian Kushner
mich...@swcp.com (Michael Martinez) wrote:
Michael:
I appreciate your opinion on this. Funny thing is, these people
post their message once and that's it, but the people who oppose it
post 20 messages bitching about one message being spam.
If I ripped someone off, and a customer came in here and told of it
they'd be a hero. But because someone is referring my site they're a
spammer????
Thanks again for shedding some light on this.
Brian Kushner
Tim Smith
Brian Kushner <bkus...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<338e2aee...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
>
> I appreciate your opinion on this. Funny thing is, these people
> post their message once and that's it, but the people who oppose it
> post 20 messages bitching about one message being spam.
>
Unscientific results:
Angel - 1 ad
Dawn Ellsworth - 1 ad
K Gypsy - 1 ad
Ronda Miller - 1 ad
Melanie Young - 3 negative
Romar666 - 3 negative
Aethelrede - 1 negative
Michael Martinez - 7 positive
Brian Kushner - 1 positive, 4 informational
M. Wolfson - 1 negative
o0o9869 - 2 ads
Kevin Martin - 2 negative, 1 Positive
Tim Smith - 2 negative
Sekhmet209 - 1 informational
Oshram - 1 negative, 1 apology
Jim McLennan - 1 negative
DAWickstro - 1 negative
Total (I hope I added correctly):
6 ad (the original ads)
15 negative (any negative comments towards the posting of the ads)
9 positive (any positive comments about posting ads)
6 informational (general clarification messages)
1 apology
3-4 assorted comments
15 to 9 isn't exactly 20 to 1. There have been at least 6 ads posted and
only 15 negative comments.
I fully defend your right to defend the image of your company. More power
to you. However, since I do not like the methods which you are advertising
on ATX, I regret that I will be taking any of my business elsewhere.
--
Tim Smith
(At a chicken funeral) "And yes, Norman was beheaded, cleaned,
and plucked, ... But we all know Norman's wacky sense of humor,
and we can take confort knowing he would've gotten a kick
out of this." - The Far Side
Michael Martinez
In article <0482D80B1AA9DF7A.A19E9AC8...@library-proxy.airnews.net>, myo...@wwonline.com (Melanie Young) wrote:
>On Tue, 27 May 1997 18:42:34 GMT, Brian Kushner wrote:
>No, you compensating people to advertise your site here makes you a
>spammer.
No, that does NOT make anyone a spammer.
Michael Martinez
In article <01bc6adc$226401a0$ab9a45cf@frank>, "Tim Smith" <tim....@omnidssi.com> wrote:
>Unscientific results:
>
>Angel - 1 ad
>Dawn Ellsworth - 1 ad
>K Gypsy - 1 ad
>Ronda Miller - 1 ad
>Melanie Young - 3 negative
>Romar666 - 3 negative
>Aethelrede - 1 negative
>Michael Martinez - 7 positive
I wouldn't say my followups have been positive. I'm merely defending the
right of people to post recommendations for web sites. So far no one has
shown that any of the people mentioning PowerStar's web site have been
compensated. Even Brian Kushner has failed to name names (and I should think
he would know).
>Brian Kushner - 1 positive, 4 informational
>M. Wolfson - 1 negative
>o0o9869 - 2 ads
>Kevin Martin - 2 negative, 1 Positive
Kevin has posted more than 2 followups in this deal. I haven't tried to count
other people's messages, unless you're referring to DIRECT followups.
>Tim Smith - 2 negative
>Sekhmet209 - 1 informational
>Oshram - 1 negative, 1 apology
>Jim McLennan - 1 negative
>DAWickstro - 1 negative
>
>Total (I hope I added correctly):
>6 ad (the original ads)
>15 negative (any negative comments towards the posting of the ads)
>9 positive (any positive comments about posting ads)
>6 informational (general clarification messages)
>1 apology
>3-4 assorted comments
>
>15 to 9 isn't exactly 20 to 1. There have been at least 6 ads posted and
>only 15 negative comments.
My count differs from yours but I don't want to get into a numbers-tossing
game. This is about freedom of speech and retromoderation. Once again I
point out that in this situation neither Mr. Kushner nor any of his customers
have violated Usenet conventions nor posted articles off topic for
alt.tv.xena.
>I fully defend your right to defend the image of your company. More power
>to you. However, since I do not like the methods which you are advertising
>on ATX, I regret that I will be taking any of my business elsewhere.
This is a risk anyone runs -- that their articles will, instead of drawing
people in, will in some cases turn others away. But you are all being unfair
to those of us who have mentioned PowerStar's web site by suggesting we are
all compensated. I have never received compensation for mentioning PowerStar
and will never accept any compensation for mentioning ANY vendor's web site as
far as Xena/Hercules stuff goes.
I will continue to support Usenet freedoms and will, if necessary, make sure
that PowerStar's web site gets mentioned on a regular basis if that's what it
will take to put an end to the idea of retromoderation in this newsgroup.
Paul Hilling
Romar666 wrote in article <19970525203...@ladder02.news.aol.com>..
.
>Because if they dont harass us with their repetitive posting then they
>don't get their free picture.
More importantly, what was the free picture? I mean a free picture of
Joxer, no way! (no disrespect to Ted, but I don't find him attractive...)
But if it was of LL or X or ROC or Gabby that's a different case entirely.
I know this place where...........................
----
Reply to p.hi...@virgin.net [antispam header in effect]
Web Page @ http://freespace.virgin.net/p.hilling/
**No computers were harmed during the creation of this post, however
**several billion electrons gave their lives to ensure its safe delivery.
---Gravity Is A Myth, The Earth Sucks---
Aethe...@worldnet.att.net
Erin wrote:
>
> On Tue, 27 May 97 15:50:37 GMT, mich...@swcp.com (Michael Martinez)
> wrote:
>
> >There is nothing wrong with 100 people posting articles saying they found a
> >good deal with any particular merchant.
>
> to be non-spam. They can plug this place to their heart's content as
> far as I care, as long as the admins rule that it isn't spam.
>
> But doesn't this doofus realize that he's annoying the hell out of his
> potential customers by this "word of mouth" advertizing technique?
> Seems to me that he's doing a lot more harm than if he presented this
> site in a professional, non-intrusive manner.
>
> > I'd much rather see 100 PowerStar announcements than 200 followups
> >accusing everyone who mentions PowerStar of having sold their souls or
> >something.
>
> to be honest (not compensated) opinion and fresh ideas.
But there are soo many of them and so many are way long too.
It's all on topic, but these people must have something better to do,
or so one would think. But, De gustibus non est disputandum.
Erin
>There is nothing wrong with 100 people posting articles saying they found a
>good deal with any particular merchant.
I don't object to the content of any posts which newsadmins determine
to be non-spam. They can plug this place to their heart's content as
far as I care, as long as the admins rule that it isn't spam.
But doesn't this doofus realize that he's annoying the hell out of his
potential customers by this "word of mouth" advertizing technique?
Seems to me that he's doing a lot more harm than if he presented this
site in a professional, non-intrusive manner.
> I'd much rather see 100 PowerStar announcements than 200 followups
>accusing everyone who mentions PowerStar of having sold their souls or
>something.
Good. I'd rather see the 200 followups. At least they're more likely
to be honest (not compensated) opinion and fresh ideas.
Erin
--
"God has no place within these walls! Just
like facts have no place in organized
religion." -- Superintendent Chaumers
*email: er...@cts.com
Michael Martinez
In article <338e29b0....@nntp.cts.com>, er...@cts.com (Erin) wrote:
>But doesn't this doofus realize that he's annoying the hell out of his
>potential customers by this "word of mouth" advertizing technique?
>Seems to me that he's doing a lot more harm than if he presented this
>site in a professional, non-intrusive manner.
I don't know if Mr. Kushner is a doofus or not. But I do know many business
people, and they all have to go through the same trial-and-error process with
any promotional scheme. This one may or may not have backfired in his face.
It may or may not continue. I can think of a lot of annoying car lot
commercials I have to endure on the radio. Obviously, since these mindless
yabberbots carry on year-after-year people go buy cars from those dealers.
The PowerStar campaign may or may not enjoy similar success. You can't sell
to all of the people all of the time (even if you are Microsoft).
>> I'd much rather see 100 PowerStar announcements than 200 followups
>>accusing everyone who mentions PowerStar of having sold their souls or
>>something.
>
>Good. I'd rather see the 200 followups. At least they're more likely
>to be honest (not compensated) opinion and fresh ideas.
I've still not seen any proof that ANY of the PowerStar articles were
compensated. If we're all really interested in honesty, can we at least be
honest about the nature of these allegations: unproven.
My mentions of the PowerStar web site were and always shall be uncompensated.
Erin
On Fri, 30 May 97 15:15:58 GMT, mich...@swcp.com (Michael Martinez)
wrote:
>I've still not seen any proof that ANY of the PowerStar articles were
>compensated. If we're all really interested in honesty, can we at least be
>honest about the nature of these allegations: unproven.
Kushner admitted it! He called it "word of mouth advertizing", and he
admitted that he gave away a discount or free goods for people to come
here and plug him. I could look up the article for you, if you really
want me to, but I have to admit I don't have the interest to invest
the time. I've created a kill filter in Agent to knock out posts
about his company, so I shortly won't be bothered by him again.
Oldtimer
In article <5mnp21$h3j$1...@nic.com>, can...@nic.com (Kevin Martin) wrote:
>In article <5mmrfl$11k...@thepope.basis.com>,
>Michael Martinez <mich...@swcp.com> wrote:
>>
>>It will pass eventually. Either everyone will killfile me and Kevin or one of
>>us will blink.
>
>Geez, Michael, I thought I already did? Stick a fork in it, son, it's
>DONE.
Didja get ALL my possible accounts? (Sorry -- didn't feel up to dragging one
out of mothballs).
The narrow-minded solution is always the best for people who don't want to
listen, Kevin. For what it's worth, I posted the message IDs Stan Kalisch III
asked for -- the five that I could find on Dejanews, that is.
>> There's a good chance I'll just get disgustipated
>>with the whole thing anyway.
>
>As I have been since the day before it officially started.
You've told me why you're disgustipated. It's obvious why everyone else is,
though. This was a clear case of mountains-out-of-molehills syndrome.
Aethe...@worldnet.att.net
Romar666 wrote:
>
> In article <338E3C...@worldnet.att.net>, Aethe...@worldnet.att.net
> writes:
>
> > De gustibus non est disputandum.
> >
> >
>
Not that I say it often because it's hard to spell. It's a
latin tag meaning that you can't argue about taste. Like if you thought
Callisto was a useless skinny ugly bimbo, and I thought she was an
attractive young lady with a wonderful figure, and of great value to the
show X:WP: we could never come to an agreement about her unless one
of us changed our taste. And of course since I am right......
See the point?
Other cheap quotes are: 'Festina lente.'
and of course 'Cucullus non facit monachum': 'the hood does not
make the monk'.
Oh yes: "Nil Carborundum" too.
'Omnia Gallia est in tres partes resdividus' (and I know I spelt
that wrong: Mea Culpa: Mea Maxima Culpa'.)
Romar666
> De gustibus non est disputandum.
>
>
Oh yeah, Well thats easy for you to say. <S>
ROMAR666 }}} :-)
CYBER--MOM SAYS:
"If bologna was a tin horn you'd have yourself an orchestra
Kevin Martin
In article <5mq8fc$1bs...@thepope.basis.com>,
Oldtimer <mma...@basis.com> wrote:
>In article <5mnp21$h3j$1...@nic.com>, can...@nic.com (Kevin Martin) wrote:
>>In article <5mmrfl$11k...@thepope.basis.com>,
>>Michael Martinez <mich...@swcp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>It will pass eventually. Either everyone will killfile me and Kevin or one of
>>>us will blink.
>>Geez, Michael, I thought I already did? Stick a fork in it, son, it's
>>DONE.
>
>Didja get ALL my possible accounts? (Sorry -- didn't feel up to dragging one
>out of mothballs).
Geez. I didn't *killfile* you, you big lug, I *blinked*. Re-read the
part about "If you want to close this down, the ONLY thing I need from
you is...", would ya? I happen to agree with you that no lawyer who wants
to keep his shingle is going to take this to court -- but who can tell?
Express all the opinions you want, but don't lie about what I've DONE.
That's all.
>The narrow-minded solution is always the best for people who don't want to
>listen, Kevin.
Pot, kettle. You're not going to budge on "substantively identical," and
I'm not going to carry on any more "am not/are too" about it.
I don't understand how you apparently missed that it was Bryan Kushner
HIMSELF who posted in a direct reply to a direct question -- NOT mine! --
that he was giving out freebies with strings attached.
I don't understand why you don't see "substantially identical" when it
bites you on the bottom.
And because Stan didn't follow up right away to tell you that you were
wrong, you must be right? "I don't think so, Tim."
> For what it's worth, I posted the message IDs Stan Kalisch III
>asked for -- the five that I could find on Dejanews, that is.
So I'll leave it to him to say whether they're "substantively identical"
or not; there's no particular love lost between him and me, so you should
be willing to accept his objectivity.
>You've told me why you're disgustipated.
Yet you don't seem to be bothered at all by the concept of spam by proxy,
i.e. hired flunkies, which could spread like wildfire. I suspect the
motives you're attributing to me are not the ones I would claim; but let
it go, let it go.
>This was a clear case of mountains-out-of-molehills syndrome.
No argument there -- let the record show who set followups and who
overrode that to drag it back here. (Since when do "rogue cancellers"
ASK for attention from news.admin.net-abuse.usenet?!)
You want the last word, knock yourself out. Silence is not agreement.
Sean
Doug Funny wrote:
><snip>
> but a comment on the whole BI Index/Spam issue...
>
> It must be a sad life for someone to spend that much time and thought
> on coming up with a mathematical equation to calculate spam.
>
> Just my 2 dinars.
I don't think you have to worry too much about Seth Breidbart. He's got
friends, a life he enjoys, a good career, and his own little bit of
Internet immortality. Not exactly Vint Cerf, but hey, how many
international measures have been named after you? None for me either.
Besides, he's a nice guy. Weird, but nice in a computer nebbish sort of
way.
--
"Never attribute to maliciousness what can be adequately
explained by stupidity" Mark Twain
Ray Radlein
[e-mailed and posted, since my news server seems to hate alt.tv.xena
again]
Doug Funny wrote:
>
> This is not a personal attack against you, Michael; but a comment on
> the whole BI Index/Spam issue...
>
> It must be a sad life for someone to spend that much time and thought
> on coming up with a mathematical equation to calculate spam.
Of course! Let this qoute from Seth, on the topic of "big mistakes"
illustrate: "Back in college, I told a friend that I wasn't interested
in helping him write a compiler for a brain-dead language on a toy
computer. That was probably the most expensive decision of the 20th
century."
Seth Breidbart's friend now owns the entire Pacific Northwest. Isn't
that the saddest thing *you've* ever heard of? After *that*, what's a
few hours spent building a mathematical model to help network
administrators all over the world? Child's play, really.
- Ray R.
--
*********************************************************************
"Well, before my sword can pass all the way through your neck, it has
to pass *half way* through your neck. But before it can do *that*, it
has to first pass *one-fourth* of the way through your neck. And
before it can do *that*...." - Zeno, Warrior Princess
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
*********************************************************************