IOM -- or, oh my gods, they killed Cally. You bastards!
Raoul
which may be found inimical.
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I guess it's foreplay that counts, and half the orgasm is
exhaustion. I hope they make the most of their time alone.
It might have been a fabulous jewel, but what I guess it
turned out to be was hope. See, in that world, the one
where Hell exists, the flaw is the belief that anything counts.
All striving is vanity. The way of the warrior, the way
of love, the way of friendship, it's all just the way
to pass the time. Callisto sold her soul unaware that "He"
has no real plans for this world. He's just entertained by
her striving.
I'd eat snow, too.
See, once a person reaches it, Hell serves no purpose. To return
from there is to reappear, forever corrupted. Unless one is
saved by God. But why would God save? Why one and not another?
Because one repents? But no-one repents in Hell. Hell is Damnation.
Hell *is* Corruption. To serve as an agent of evil is to renounce
your own agency while all the while giving the appearance of the
freedom to choose. And even occasionally choosing. But Damnation
is final. How can it not be? So Callisto is lost. The fuckers.
Why did they have to do that?
And Love is correspondingly heavy handed: if you so love your
fellow woman that you would love perfectly, you must give away
your whole self and let Love love. And this is different
from selling your soul?
(Frankly, Alti would have been better in the angel of Satan role.
Hell is her element, and damaging souls, like she aimed at, seems
a more damned crime than merely separating them from their bodies,
like Cally aimed at. And it should have been Callisto battling
Arminestra and Shakti. Who else would consume lifetimes trying
to find and end Xena's karmic cycle, leaving aside the fact that
at the end of sac2 that part of her own cycle should have been
over?)
But I did like the "dependable chakram" speech. "...drop your sword
and join Gabrielle in fulfilling a life of loving kindness" and her
eyebrows shot up. But "invite me into your soul" was odd. Cally
wants her body, not her soul. That was "Him" speaking. Cally's
dead. She serves someone else now.
Anyway, the prison scene was bizarre enough to be comical, Be All
You Can Be, salvaged by the wish to have seen the scrolls. "You
would have liked them." That seemed more human, less Love.
And, I spose Caesar was in on the gang bang so we'd know just who
was being penetrated. Everyone else was just banging away at
raised metal buttons.
And then everyone left them alone.
It might have been a fabulous jewel. It seems rather that
it was the sea.
R
The Black Wolf
> IOM spoilers, big time; and a tone ultimately triumphant but
> which may be found inimical.
Callisto, ROC, IS, TLW, ANE, MI, SacI&II, IOM
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>
> I guess it's foreplay that counts, and half the orgasm is
> exhaustion. I hope they make the most of their time alone.
Who says they're alone? Isn't Cal floating around somewhere?
> It might have been a fabulous jewel, but what I guess it
> turned out to be was hope. See, in that world, the one
> where Hell exists, the flaw is the belief that anything counts.
> All striving is vanity. The way of the warrior, the way
> of love, the way of friendship, it's all just the way
> to pass the time. Callisto sold her soul unaware that "He"
> has no real plans for this world. He's just entertained by
> her striving.
>
> I'd eat snow, too.
Just an appetizer.
<snipped lots>
> But I did like the "dependable chakram" speech. "...drop your sword
> and join Gabrielle in fulfilling a life of loving kindness" and her
> eyebrows shot up. But "invite me into your soul" was odd. Cally
> wants her body, not her soul. That was "Him" speaking. Cally's
> dead. She serves someone else now.
Or maybe what she wants is to be intertwined between Gabs and X and all that
Mendhi. But...
Cal as Guardian Marriage Counselor????? What WAS that all about?? I mean,
there's all kinds of subtext between X & Cal but also Cal & Gab. What has
it all led up to?
<SERIOUS DIGRESSION AHEAD>
In 'Callisto' in S1, the mortal wench "relished the challenge of taking"
Xena. She wanted to kill X and make a big, big show of it, to be the
"first" to conquer the warrior in *that* way. The ultimate way. Of course
there's the revenge and destroy her hometown thing but Cal is completely
obsessed with X.
Re-watching Intimate Stranger, I noticed again the line, "Tartarus is so
boring... makes me miss what *we* had." (Apparently Cal misses X in hell
too, and also Gabs.) Theodorus had said to Xena (who was really Callisto),
"All Callisto's anger and hatred was for Xena and Xena alone." Well, since
Callisto said love was "a trick nature plays to get us to reproduce", it
seemed all her passion was for Xena.
In ANE Cal's focus shifts to the then still baby-butch who'd obviously been
learning well from her teacher. Maybe Cal identified with Gab as a 'sister'
(heh), Xena had "made" them both (double 'heh'). (And I refuse to expand on
the mother-fixation shit with Cal - well, at least for now - but it's there,
too... Yet, speaking of...) In Maternal Instincts, Cal was after Xena
intently but she didn't seem to mind Gab along for the ride, even wanted to
adopt little Hope, "You should have been *my* daughter." (or would that
maybe be in reference to Hope as Xena *and* Gab's daughter... shit. I said
I wasn't gonna go there...).
Anyway, did Callisto just want to "do" Gabrielle to get at Xena or was she
hot for the little bard too? If she was, it's apparent she still wanted
Xena to watch. In SacI&II, Cal got to live vicariously through the little
tag team display, but eventually she did get Xena to stick it to her in the
end.
<END OF DIGRESSION>
Then FINALLY there's IOM with Prophet (or Puppet?) Cal telling X to just get
over it already and live happily in peace with her partner (peace&love,
peace&love, peace&love). You're right, that doesn't sound like Cal - it
*did* make me wonder what the hell Cal wants with X's soul when she really
wants her bod (gods don't we all). Maybe *that* was part of the
chakram-splitting-spine-shattering pre-Roman-ravaging climax, but only in
prelude to the final nailing. If Cal couldn't have Xena, no one could. Or
was it all about Gab by then? Maybe it's Gab's bod Cal wants now. She
*did* manage to get the now-very-queen-butch all riled up. Caesar wasn't
the only one doing the penetrating that day.
Nah, Cal wants to join in and make it a three-some, I say. She's just
biding her time. (Sorry, Alti doesn't fit in here, ick.)
> Anyway, the prison scene was bizarre enough to be comical, Be All
> You Can Be, salvaged by the wish to have seen the scrolls. "You
> would have liked them." That seemed more human, less Love.
Completely agreed. Also, maybe Gabs was ready to share now that she knew
Xena wouldn't have been scared away by all *her* fanfic efforts... (oh,
many, many skills did she learn!) No one really likes criticism, do they?
> And, I s'pose Caesar was in on the gang bang so we'd know just who
> was being penetrated. Everyone else was just banging away at
> raised metal buttons.
>
> And then everyone left them alone.
>
> It might have been a fabulous jewel. It seems rather that
> it was the sea.
>
> R
BTW, upon re-reading your post a 3rd time I tried to get a different
perspective using the focus-shifting eye trick. This is what I saw:
....foreplay...fabulous
jewel...striving...eat...repent...heavy-handed...penetrated...fulfilling...b
anging...buttons...precious jewel...sea...
Well... we all remember what Xena said about the stone under the lake.
"It's forever changed." That precious jewel may resurface yet after the
post-climactic ripples have calmed.... if you focus your 'vision' on just
"following the love" long enough, those ripples might even last all
summer...
So keep dreaming, don't give up just yet! Cally's come back 3 times already
(or 6 I think, if you count rock tombs, lava pits, and ancient worm holes).
She wants X&G BAD, or good, anyway she can get 'em...
- TBW
Raoul
Given the Touched By A Gabrielle special effects, I'd say No.
It's a hope, really. Y'know, they have such intimacy-in-public
issues -- they won't kiss much, they call each other "friend".
They need some time alone. Mabye a wine cooler and a nice lie down.
<cut to the chase>
> BTW, upon re-reading your post a 3rd time I tried to get a different
> perspective using the focus-shifting eye trick.
Ahh. A goal achieved. A post that makes people cross-eyed.
<clip>
> So keep dreaming, don't give up just yet! Cally's come back 3 times already
> (or 6 I think, if you count rock tombs, lava pits, and ancient worm holes).
> She wants X&G BAD, or good, anyway she can get 'em...
Cally died well. Now, Cally's corrupted. I mourn.
My second thought on the matter was that as time wore on and her
strength wound down, she was bound to make some seriously dumb
mistake, one that she'd never recover from. I guess that finally
means she can never be a hero. She's done something irrevocable.
The physicality's gone. It's like she really did exhaust her anger
in Sac2, but she's got nothing left to go on so she still follows
the "I hate Xena" form. She's been emptied out. Hollowed, if you
will. And I really think that is the xenaverse version of damnation.
In Hell everyone is striving, striving with the goal just there but
always out of reach. And still they go on and on, striving, striving.
And it begins to mean nothing.
R
The Black Wolf
> It's a hope, really. Y'know, they have such intimacy-in-public
> issues -- they won't kiss much, they call each other "friend".
> They need some time alone. Mabye a wine cooler and a nice lie down.
LOL- Well... if they *are* alone, at least there's no one left on earth to
disturb them with any bothersome thoughts. Ceasar's dead, Marcus is dead,
Perdicorpse is oh-so-thankfully-dead, Cally's dead <sniff... but still
holding out with the tiniest glint of hope>, most MOTWs are dead (or
stupid), and Joxer's apparently family now... So there's only us fans here
thinking of them endlessly. Yet I'd like to think *our* thoughts could give
them some *support*, maybe a few reminders of the good ole days...
("Gabrielle, do it!" -Xena, GJWTHF) Think they'll hear that?
> <cut to the chase>
>
> > BTW, upon re-reading your post a 3rd time I tried to get a different
> > perspective using the focus-shifting eye trick.
>
> Ahh. A goal achieved. A post that makes people cross-eyed.
Actually, I tried it once in the impressionist museum in Paris on some Monet
paintings. Didn't seem to work as well... not enough subtext I suppose.
> <clip>
>
> > So keep dreaming, don't give up just yet! Cally's come back 3 times
already
> > (or 6 I think, if you count rock tombs, lava pits, and ancient worm
holes).
> > She wants X&G BAD, or good, anyway she can get 'em...
>
> Cally died well. Now, Cally's corrupted. I mourn.
>
> My second thought on the matter was that as time wore on and her
> strength wound down, she was bound to make some seriously dumb
> mistake, one that she'd never recover from. I guess that finally
> means she can never be a hero. She's done something irrevocable.
>
> The physicality's gone. It's like she really did exhaust her anger
> in Sac2, but she's got nothing left to go on so she still follows
> the "I hate Xena" form. She's been emptied out. Hollowed, if you
> will. And I really think that is the xenaverse version of damnation.
> In Hell everyone is striving, striving with the goal just there but
> always out of reach. And still they go on and on, striving, striving.
> And it begins to mean nothing.
>
> R
Jeez, R, you make Cal sound like an S4 jaded fan! (Where's Pintele to
explain when we need her, dammit!? Oh right, "bloodbath & backstabbing"...)
So maybe Cal's *not* dead. Maybe she's out here lurking somewhere with
us... Or would that mean *we're* in Hell?? <shit>
-TBW
Kbdax
> > *
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> > *
> > *
> >
>The physicality's gone. It's like she really did exhaust her anger
>in Sac2, but she's got nothing left to go on so she still follows
>the "I hate Xena" form. She's been emptied out. Hollowed, if you
>will. And I really think that is the xenaverse version of damnation.
if only they had written her this way ... hudson tried to play her that way, i
think, but in the end she wasn't even that way. she wasn't even stuck. she was
just the same.
>In Hell everyone is striving, striving with the goal just there but
>always out of reach. And still they go on and on, striving, striving.
>And it begins to mean nothing.
>
this is *exactly* so ...
but aside from it ...
cally's problem is that she is one endless note that doesn't deviate in pitch.
she was turned into a device.
in IOM all the pieces were there ... right up until xena is nailed to the cross
and cally (even though she's eaten the snow) should have said something other
than what she said. (and became a device again.)
S4 was all about change and it was unsatisfactory when it fell back to the
devices. (but some people like devices i know cause they are familiar.)
kb
Raoul
>
> cally's problem is that she is one endless note that doesn't deviate in pitch.
> she was turned into a device.
A device? a tool? Careful, buster, that's my heart you're breaking.
A manic depressive obsessive, yes. Device? Well, yeah, but is anybody
only their role?
A single, screaming note that goes on and on. I know I like it.
Still... I guess she was doomed to one day be unable to go on.
R
Brule31x63
Such is TIME in sempiternity, as Callisto endures in hell. She continues to
exist in time.
Someone, somewhere invented the notion that devices are bad. The first I
know of them, in Aristotle's Poetics, they're described in neutral terms. All
plots must have 'em, and if used well, they're bonnie.
Callisto's trap in sempiternity constrasts with Gabrielle and Xena's implied
ability to find eternity (in `AITST` and `IOM`). X&G will transcend time
itself. They shall find that place where time can been seen still, calm and
at rest.
Of course, timelessness is beyond description (since description fills in
what had been blank, therefore depending on time), but its apprehension is the
goal of mystical contemplation, and isn't that also the goal of television
watching? A fortiori it's the goal of overly-deep commentary on television
watching.
That single, screaming note is then like the background note played by the
bagpiper: "sound a lay, a pibroch sad to play".
Alas, poor Callisto:
Cleanthes (GGGHD)
Xena with death there is always rebirth. Anubis `TBS`
Kbdax
>A manic depressive obsessive, yes. Device? Well, yeah, but is anybody
>only their role?
>
>A single, screaming note that goes on and on. I know I like it.
>
>Still... I guess she was doomed to one day be unable to go on.
>
>R
>
>
try, but even she said cally got boring.) ... what if they had given her just a
little more ... depth? what if they left off that little taunt at the end? what
if they let the inside, or at least the focus, change as much as the outside?
ah well, she will be back, so maybe we'll know.
kb
Raoul
> "A single, screaming note that goes on and on. I know I like it."
>
> Such is TIME in sempiternity, as Callisto endures in hell. She continues to
> exist in time.
>
> Someone, somewhere invented the notion that devices are bad. The first I
> know of them, in Aristotle's Poetics, they're described in neutral terms. All
> plots must have 'em, and if used well, they're bonnie.
>
> Callisto's trap in sempiternity constrasts with Gabrielle and Xena's implied
> ability to find eternity (in `AITST` and `IOM`). X&G will transcend time
> itself. They shall find that place where time can been seen still, calm and
> at rest.
>
> Of course, timelessness is beyond description (since description fills in
> what had been blank, therefore depending on time), but its apprehension is the
> goal of mystical contemplation, and isn't that also the goal of television
> watching? A fortiori it's the goal of overly-deep commentary on television
> watching.
>
> That single, screaming note is then like the background note played by the
> bagpiper: "sound a lay, a pibroch sad to play".
>
> Alas, poor Callisto:
>
Aye, what in life might be our meaning by its horror must, in
death, just be horror. And I might be talking about tv.
Alas, poor Callisto.
R
Raoul
> think if they let her change the pitch or alter the note (hudson did, i think,
> try, but even she said cally got boring.) ... what if they had given her just a
> little more ... depth? what if they left off that little taunt at the end? what
> if they let the inside, or at least the focus, change as much as the outside?
>
> ah well, she will be back, so maybe we'll know.
ohkey, Ahm gwan tae haf tae say thus...
The fuckers damned her. Angel came back because somebody loved him.
But who'll salvage poor, dear Callisto? We have already, accidentally,
seen what Cally might have been: TLW, and to a lesser extent, IS. It
wasn't in the script, but who can help seeing more in the acting?
And, anyway, who can see beyond the stars? And still the beyond
exists. Why not cry out, over and over, cursing and wanting it all?
It does make for a single note.
R
(By that rationale, of course, I'm going to have to applaud that
bonnie lass, heidi's, call for change, even while I curse it's arrival.
Ehh, why not?)
Bob & Gail Futoran
>Angel came back because somebody loved him.
I thought Angel came back because some supernatural PTB wanted him to
continue to pay for his past misdeeds by Doing Good ... oh, wait, Angel is
Xena? I smell ripofff... :o)
Please, _don't_ tell me Cordy is Gabrielle! <g>
Gail
Katilist
>But who'll salvage poor, dear Callisto?
Her sister? The truth, finally faced?
If no one will save Callisto, it is because she has rejected the saving.
It's like the old joke about the fellow who claimed to trust in God, but
spurned the help God sent because he was expecting something else.
Xena has tried to save Callisto. Gabrielle has. Callisto's own mother
has tried to come and talk sense to her. Iolaus tried to help.
Callisto has rejected every attempt, wanting something else. She needed
to look into her own soul for the key to her redemption, but she refused.
On "Touched By an Angel" (an appropriate reference I think, given the
Amazon who was resurrected into the lead role), Monica says God is truth, and
Hell is being away from the truth. If that is so, Callisto was already in
Hell. She didn't go anywhere. It just finally manifested around her. It was
what she expected, after all.
Kat >^^<
Charter member, PIST
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If
you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will
destroy you." -- Gospel of Thomas
Raoul
> Her sister? The truth, finally faced?
> If no one will save Callisto, it is because she has rejected the saving.
> It's like the old joke about the fellow who claimed to trust in God, but
> spurned the help God sent because he was expecting something else.
> Xena has tried to save Callisto. Gabrielle has. Callisto's own mother
> has tried to come and talk sense to her. Iolaus tried to help.
> Callisto has rejected every attempt, wanting something else. She needed
> to look into her own soul for the key to her redemption, but she refused.
> On "Touched By an Angel" (an appropriate reference I think, given the
> Amazon who was resurrected into the lead role), Monica says God is truth, and
> Hell is being away from the truth. If that is so, Callisto was already in
> Hell. She didn't go anywhere. It just finally manifested around her. It was
> what she expected, after all.
Boy, what a bunch of hardasses you all turned out to be! A damnation
here, an eternity there. Yep, rejected help; yep, expected hell...
but deserved it? Would anybody? Ya make yer choice, ya pay the price;
but if the price is so high,...
So she killed a lot of people. C'mon, give a girl a break! Xena did it.
Ephiny did it. Marcus did it. Caesar did it. Gab's getting a taste for
it. Amarice likes it a lot. Even Autolycus and Joxer kill people.
Cal's crime was what, attitude, co-operation with bad gods, unkind
words? Pride? Self-pity? Or do bad girls really go to hell?
What truth has Callisto missed? That people are too fragile to be
made subject to your sense of injustice? Granted. But why ditch
the bitch? Let's all bleed together.
R
I woke the same as any other day except a voice was in my head
it said seize the day, pull the trigger, drop the blade
one more time around might do it, might make it
The day i tried to live
i wallowed in the blood and mud
with all the other pigs
The day I tried to live
just like you
Apologies to Chris Cornell
Katilist
<snip>
>Yep, rejected help; yep, expected hell...
>but deserved it? Would anybody? Ya make yer choice, ya pay the price;
>but if the price is so high,...
Who said she deserved it? Then again, if that's what she got, maybe she
did. Maybe she herself believed it deep down, and would accept no substitutes.
How delicious to have the ultimate problem for which to blame XENA!
If ya can't stand the heat, ya get out of hell's kitchen. Didn't someone
just say that? If the piper's fee is too high, you don't dance.
>What truth has Callisto missed? That people are too fragile to be
>made subject to your sense of injustice? Granted. But why ditch
>the bitch? Let's all bleed together.
Nuh-uh. No more wounds for me right now, thanks. I'm set.
What truth has Callisto missed? I'll tell you:
Letting go.
She thought *that* would be hell. Her mistake. Too bad. But here's the kicker
--
She can get out of hell anytime, with her get-out-of-hell-free card, the one
that has the truth written all over it, plain as the lines in Gabrielle's palm.
The Black Wolf
kati...@aol.comdiespamm (Katilist) wrote:
> Raoul wrote:
> <snip>
<snipped not deserving consequences & no dancing cuz too broke to pay
piper>
>What truth has Callisto missed? That people are too fragile to be
> >made subject to your sense of injustice? Granted. But why ditch
> >the bitch? Let's all bleed together.
>
> Nuh-uh. No more wounds for me right now, thanks. I'm set.
> What truth has Callisto missed? I'll tell you:
>
> Letting go.
Just couldn't get past this without thinking that Cal as Aleph told
Xena to do just that. If only Cal could go to Illusia... too bad she
drew the card that said 'Go directly to Hell. Do eat snow. Do not
collect (or pay) and Debts. Do not stand too close to any cliffs...'
But wait, wasn't Xena catching a few snowflakes during that lovely
little ditty (still couldn't dance to it though, *that* piper was too
expensive...) atop a mountain before driving the GabDrag express to
Illusia?
Could the chakram splitting qualify as a Xena & Gab drag to the cross?
Could Callisto be headed for her little lesson in redemption??
It's far fetched. Still holding out, though...
- TBW
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Raoul
>
<snip>
> What truth has Callisto missed? I'll tell you:
>
> Letting go.
>
> --
>
> She can get out of hell anytime, with her get-out-of-hell-free card, the one
> that has the truth written all over it, plain as the lines in Gabrielle's palm.
Yer right. Dammit. All she has to do is let go. The obsession
holds her in place.
All she has to do is let go. Accept. Heal. Find peace. Like a good girl?
My one enduring problem is that it all ended in Sac2. She had it all.
She had neither the wisdom to accept what she couldn't change nor
the humility to change only what she could. She had only the old
madness that everything was hers to destroy. And with it she got
everything she hoped for.
So, in storytelling terms, they took it all away and sent her to hell.
They reinstated the obsession, robbed the character of her victory over
it. And left me to accept that she has to give in to go on.
But I'm starting to think I love every minute of it.
R