FOX HARRASSMENT
laura capozzola
You can't ignore the harrassment FOX is dumping on some of our better
web site creators. If they get away with this, what/who will they go
after next? This is a TV Network pissing in your face for supporting
their shows.
Please e-mail this Oakes character or the FOX network and explain how
ridiculous it is to remove sites that provide the shows with free
advertising and give fans so much pleasure. Just think about the long
summer between new episodes and how you would feel if you only had their
Official Web Site to visit to get your daily/weekly fix of your favorite
show. Remind them that they are the Number 4 network and this isn't
the way to improve their standing.
If they don't understand the emotional appeal you make, plead the
business case. They understand dollars. You may not realize it but one
of the X-Files sites they closed down was the one with the nice promo
posters and descriptions of upcoming season 4 shows. Call it up
now:
http://www.halcyon.com/mulder/season4.html
and imagine if every X-Files site you visited returned no photos, no
poster ads, no info, no nothing because the big boys at FOX decided to
flex their muscles on some poor fan who just wanted to demonstrate their
devotion creatively and give the rest of us a little pleasure besides.
You can't let them get away with it. E-Mail FOX or Mr Oakes now or
after they are through bullying the X-Files and Millenneum web site
creators, they'll be coming after the mailing lists. Post a copy of
your letter to this site as well. Maybe we'll get someone's attention
that can step on Mr. Oakes on our behalf or carry the message to the
press.
David Oakes e mail address is DAV...@foxinc.com
-Laura-
Mishka2
Dear fellow 'Philes:
I'm including my e-mails to David Oakes and "Ask Fox"
regarding their demands to shut down X-Files- and
Millennium-related websites, specifically their attack on
Gil Trevizo. I hope this will help inspire you to join the "green
ribbon" campaign that has been started to protest these
strong-arm tactics. Other great favorite sites have also been
shut down, either directly by Fox or out of fear of harrassment
by them. Also, someone managed to get David Oakes' phone
number at Fox: (310) 369-2738. Let's tell them how we feel!
(Or at least glut their phone lines/e-mail folders!)
-- Mishka
-----------------------------
Subj: Mistreatment of Gil Trevizo
Date: 10/27/96
To: askfox@foxinc
CC: tre...@utep.edu
Dear "ask Fox":
Let me please ask you how something like this can happen to
someone who, in my opinion, has done so much to serve the
fans of the X-Files and who had only intended to do the same
service for the fans of the new Fox show, Millennium.
Following are two e-mails I sent to David Oakes and other representatives
of Fox Inc. in response to their demand that Gil Trevizo
(formerly tre...@utep.edu) close down the Millennium website
that he had set up before the premiere of the new series. The day
after I sent the first e-mail, Mr. Trevizo's e-mail account was closed
because of this. I also have included the e-mail sent by these
representatives to Mr. Trevizo, which was the first correspondence
I saw on this matter.
Hopefully you will understand the strong feelings of many dedicated
X-Files fans in regards to the mistreatment of Mr. Trevizo, who was
only trying to help the new series to succeed. This event is especially
upsetting for us so soon after Fox's decision to move The X-Files to
Sunday nights.
Can you please do something as soon as possible to resolve this?
In the meantime, I and many others who communicate on the Internet
have decided to stop watching the Fox Network and no longer purchase
any merchandise put out by Fox. I will pre-program my VCR to videotape
The X-Files and make sure that I do not view any commercials broadcast
in that time slot.
Sincerely,
Margo Foster
*****************
My first e-mail to Fox/David Oakes:
Subj: Re: Unauthorized Millenium Website
Date: 10/26/96
To: DAV...@foxinc.com
re...@newscorp.com
CC: tre...@utep.edu
I understand that you have told Gil Trevizo to remove his
Millenium website (see copy of your e-mail below). I believe
any limitation on your part of show-related websites would
be a huge mistake. Having a variety of show-related websites,
even "unofficial ones", must only intensify the popularity of
Millenuim, or any other show.
I have been a dedicated follower of The X-Files since it's first
season; I visit/communicate in X-Files-related websites, chat
rooms, and mailing lists daily, and I see evidence all the time
that new viewers who visit X-Files-related websites to get
background on the show often become very loyal viewers.
And to tell you the truth, I don't find "The Official X-Files Website"
to be terribly interesting or informative, compared to all the other
sites out there for 'Philes -- all of which have links to your "Official"
site.
There is certainly a huge demand out there for Millenium sites,
as many of us 'Philes on newsgroups are getting sick of Millenium
posts cluttering up our lists. Do you really think your "official" site
can accomodate all the cyber-traffic? Why not allow freedom of
speech, AND help publicize your new show, by letting Gil keep his site?
You seem very ungrateful for all the free publicity/hype X-Files-related
websites have given you.
By the way, I have never written to Fox Broadcasting or Ten Thirteen
to give my feeedback on the X-Files (to which I have been extremely
loyal) and various creative and marketing/scheduling decisions that
have been made regarding the show. I generally don't do that kind
of thing. But I'm one of the silent (until now) majority who felt
abandoned by your company when you pushed The X-Files to
Sundays for Millenium, and who feel The X-files' quality is being
neglected in favor of this new show.
I really wish The X-Files could move to another network, because
there have been so many other unwise policies and decisions Fox
has made regarding The X-Files -- the split screens at the end
for the 10 o'clock news to squeeze their little teaser in, making us
unable to read the final credits; the way your "next episode" promos
are often misleading and appeal to the lowest common denominator,
not to the real fans; the move to Sundays; and now this stinginess
about some stupid logos and trademarks associated with Cris
Carter's new show.
Please let your advertisers know that I'll give Millenium a try tonight,
but I'm taping it and The X-Files and zapping through the commercials,
averting my eyes as they speed by. As I know others plan to do, if
they aren't among the many who are boycotting Millenium altogether.
Sincerely,
Margo Foster (Mis...@aol.com)
********************
My second e-mail, after hearing that Mr. Trevizo's account had been shut
down:
Subj: Trevizo's e-mail shutdown
Date: 10/27/96
To: DAV...@foxinc.com
re...@newscorp.com
CC: Tre...@utep.edu
Fox executives (DAV...@foxinc.com and re...@newscorp.com):
I sent you a message last night (Friday 10/25) to express my
feelings about your telling Gil Trevizo to shut down the
unofficial Millennium website he worked so hard to put up,
hoping to cater to new Millennium fans and get some more
excitment going about the show. This afternoon, I found out
you had his personal e-mail shut down.
All I can say is, I've never heard about anything so petty.
If you knew anything about Gil, you'd know that he has only
the best wishes for The X-Files AND Millennium. Apparently,
you really don't see your show's fans as people, because this
action has hurt all of us. Gil does a lot as the administrator
of on-line X-File fan mailing lists, and he's done nothing but his
best to support the show's popularity. Now, he was trying to do
the same for Millennium.
Can you please give us an understandable rationale for the way
you have handled this? I just don't see it.
Sincerely,
Margo Foster (Mis...@aol.com)
***************************
The original e-mail from David Oakes:
>
>> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 15:00:19 -0700
>> From: David Oakes <DAV...@foxinc.com>
>> To: tre...@mail.utep.edu
>> Cc: re...@newscorp.com
>> Subject: "MILLENNIUM" -- Unauthorized Website
>>
>> Please remove your website for Fox's television series
>> "MILLENNIUM" which uses copyrighted images and logos, and
>> duplicates materials from Fox's Official Website without
>> permission or attribution.
>>
Mishka2
In article <32752c71...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, bkus...@ix.netcom.com
(Brian E. Kushner) writes:
>
>I am faxing all these type messages directly to Chris Carter......
>
>Brian
>
Thanks, Brian!
So, everybody, get those e-mails out NOW and CC will hear
how much his fans care about freedom on the Internet!
-- Mishka
hol...@internetland.net
I am with you totally -- all these web sites can do is drum up furhter
support for the shows -- I just had one question -- if we put some sort of
attribution on our "samples," would that be sufficiant?
AMY
Brian E. Kushner
laura capozzola <laur...@erols.com> wrote:
I am faxing all these type messages directly to Chris Carter......
Brian
TJ Currey
My friend Laurie from IRC just called this thread to my attention, as I
hadn't been keeping up with the newsgroup for the last day or so. I
want to be perfectly plain that FOX did not shut down my site, which was
located at http://www.halcyon.com/mulder/xfiles.html. I did receive a
"cease and desist" letter from Cinescape Magazine regarding one picture
and a type-up I did of a great conspiracy arc article they ran. While I
had given the writers of the article and Cinescape Magazine credit for
running the article, they wanted it removed immmediately, which I did.
I've received about 32 e-mailings from people wanting my XF page back
up, and all those e-mails have been wonderful, and I appreciate them.
However, I have/had heard rumors regarding yet another FOX crackdown on
the new "Millennium" pages, which are starting to spring up, and I've
heard a few other folks having their sites shut down and eliminated.
While I don't know if any of this is true, and while I'm also aware that
copyright rules re the 'net are not yet set in stone, I just felt that
one less XF page on the 'net would not be a catastrophe. I enjoyed
working on my page, even felt it therapeutic from time to time, and the
only reason I put up a page and worked on it so hard was from a true
love of the show "The X-Files". It was never my intention to cause any
harm towards anyone, since it was a noncommercial site, only a hobby of
mine. I received no money for my site, but I always did receive a few
e-mails nearly daily from appreciative folks.
--
TJ Currey
Mac Med. Transcription: http://www.halcyon.com/mulder/mac.html
Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/mulder/welcome.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Out the modem, through the server, over the router, nuthin but 'net!"
:)
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
Mishka2
Oops!
Folks, please disregard my recommendation (passed on from
someone else, I may add, but still something I included in a
previous post) that we phone Fox to protest their cracking down
on unofficial websites. A few people have made it very clear to
me since I suggested this that it would be a bad idea. Apparently,
in previous cases like this, studio execs have been totally turned
off to fans when they start up phone campaigns, and may have
cracked down even harder just to spite them, or at least stopped
listening to them at all. So please, don't call Fox like I
asked you to before!
Sorry. I've just been really mad.
-- Mishka
Samuel Ziegler
On Mon, 28 Oct 1996 05:29:45 GMT, Swenson <was...@server.northernnet.com> wrote:
>laura capozzola <laur...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>>You can't ignore the harrassment FOX is dumping on some of our better
>>web site creators. If they get away with this, what/who will they go
>>after next? This is a TV Network pissing in your face for supporting
>>their shows.
does any one know if FOX has made any offical statements about these actions?
--
Samuel Ziegler (zie...@bellatlantic.net)
"What do you want for Christmas, Crow?"
"I want to decide who lives and who dies."
munc...@netcom.com
In article <5509e3$e...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Mishka2 <mis...@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <32752c71...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, bkus...@ix.netcom.com
>(Brian E. Kushner) writes:
>
>>
>>
>>Brian
>>
>
>So, everybody, get those e-mails out NOW and CC will hear
>how much his fans care about freedom on the Internet!
>
> -- Mishka
If Brian The Shameless Thief (of Miri's DD scans) and Self-Promoter has
CC's fax number I'll eat my modem. Without salt. Brian Kushner posts
whatever he thinks will draw attention to himself so that he can suck you
into his merchandising site. Forget the damn fax machine, and DEFINITELY
forget the email. WRITE to the Fox Network. They neither like nor
understand the Web. Write Oakes at:
David Oakes
Twentieth Century Fox
P. O. Box 900
Los Angeles, CA 90035
****************************************************************
Sarah Stegall*http://www.webcom.com/munchkyn*munc...@netcom.com
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like his passengers...
****************************************************************
Brian E. Kushner
munc...@netcom.com wrote:
Would you want to bet some money I have his fax and his phone??????
You make the bet and then I'll email the numbers to you for
verification!!!!!
Portia
In <munchkynE...@netcom.com> munc...@netcom.com writes:
>
>In article <5509e3$e...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Mishka2
<mis...@aol.com> wrote:
>>In article <32752c71...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
bkus...@ix.netcom.com
>>(Brian E. Kushner) writes:
>>
>>>I am faxing all these type messages directly to Chris Carter......
>>>
>>>Brian
>>>
>>Thanks, Brian!
>>
>>So, everybody, get those e-mails out NOW and CC will hear
>>how much his fans care about freedom on the Internet!
>>
>> -- Mishka
>
>If Brian The Shameless Thief (of Miri's DD scans) and Self-Promoter
has CC's fax number I'll eat my modem. Without salt. Brian Kushner
posts whatever he thinks will draw attention to himself so that he can
suck you >into his merchandising site. Forget the damn fax machine,
and DEFINITELY >forget the email. WRITE to the Fox Network. They
neither like nor >understand the Web. Write Oakes at:
>
>David Oakes
>Twentieth Century Fox
>P. O. Box 900
>Los Angeles, CA 90035
Not to mention that allowing Brian Kushner to self-appoint as
spokesperson for such a campaign destroys any credibility it might
have. How seriously do you suppose anyone at Fox or 1013 is going to
take messages forwarded by Brian "GILLIAN ANDERSON NUDES" Kushner?
He's surely well known to Fox and 1013 by now as the guy with his hand
in his pants.
He's transparently trying to link his own website problems with those
of the Millennium website folks, who ought to be appalled, and would be
smart to *specifically* distance themselves from him.
Brian E. Kushner
por...@ix.netcom.com(Portia) wrote:
I have no website problems!!!!! My site is 100% kosher! AS I said,
the nudes have been gone and Gillian Anderson is not the property of
Fox, Scully is and I show Gillian images not Scully!
And again, my bet will stand with you if you want on whether I have
Carters phone and fax!!!!
Brian
Clint Bradford
>>You can't ignore the harrassment FOX is dumping on some of our better
>>web site creators. If they get away with this, what/who will they go
>>after next? This is a TV Network pissing in your face for supporting
>>their shows.
No, Laura...this is a network attempting to protect a very valuable
property. Which is legally trademarked. And we (collectively) choose to
ignore the law and violate trademark/copyright law rather blatantly.
Fox will have no problem with "text-only" messaging user groups. But
when we start re-printing newspaper review in their entirety without
seeking permission, and display trademarked photos/logos, we cross the
line from being legal to being illegal.
Affable Al
Once again, we have someone attempting to lecture another person on a subject the former
obviously has no real clue about.
Let me explain this ONE MORE TIME, okay? :)
Violation of trademark/copyright law occurs when one of the following motives is
established IN A COURT OF LAW (not by some guy at Fox Broadcasting who's given the
thankless job of e-mailing fans and telling them, more or less, to go *%#& themselves):
1) the copyrighted and/or trademarked item/name/whatever is being used by the defendant
for the purposes of monetary gain
2) the copyrighted and/or trademarked item/name/whatever is being used by the defendant
in order to DEFAME the aforementioned item/name/whatever
OR
3) the copyrighted and/or trademarked item/name/whatever is being used in such a fashion
that obscures just WHO or WHAT ENTITY actually owns said copyright/trademark.
If a web site is using photos or logos or WHATEVER, they are not in violation of the law
until one of the above situations occurs. Now, if all the credits are given and the
entire thing is non-profit, then there's no problem.
The motive behind Fox's behavior: money.
Fox wants you to come to THEM to get your XF/Millennium fix. Not to some fan who just
wants to share. They want you to come to them. And if they can figure out some way to
make you pay for it, then they'll do that, too. Witness the XF/CreationCon money-ripoff
situation.
Now, Clint, I don't want to single you out for your ignorance on this subject, but you
(and others who've taken a high-handed attitude to this debate) have to FULLY UNDERSTAND
the true nature of the law and the implications that recent events have. Specifically:
how does this impact on our First Amendment rights?
In the case of Gil Trevizo, no law was broken. A large, very rich corporation basically
used undue influence to violate Gil's First Amendment rights. This is an extremely
serious legal development, and one that has far-reaching impact, if folks would take the
time to see it for what it is.
There is only one real solution to the problem: strike back.
It's time to show Fox two things: 1) it can not violate your rights for monetary reasons
with impunity, they ARE going to be called on the carpet and 2) it's far more COSTLY for
them to continue doing so.
What I mean is this: boycott the products advertised during XF and Millennium. Go ahead
and watch the shows, but don't buy the products. Go out of your WAY not to buy the
products. And let those companies know exactly why you aren't buying their products.
Television exists merely to sell you things. Shows are ways to make you watch MORE TV so
that you will see more commercials. Quality is incidental. And if you want Fox to
behave, put them in exactly the situation they don't want: loss of revenue.
Stew Barnes
In article <3276FB...@worldnet.att.net>, Affable Al
<Affa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Clint Bradford wrote:
Again, as has been pointed out by others, no it is not. Copyright is just
that, an ability to control the copying and distribution of your work.
The use the material is put to, including monetary gain, can impact the
amount a claimant can attempt to recover, but does not excuse the offense.
To quote Brad Templeton's excellent "10 Big Myths about copyright explained":
2) "If I don't charge for it, it's not a violation."
False. Whether you charge can affect the damages awarded in
court, but that's essentially the only difference. It's still a
violation if you give it away -- and there can still be
heavy damages if you hurt the commercial value of the
property.
If you have any information to the contrary, please post your sources.
As to "IN A COURT OF LAW...", I assume you would prefer that Fox simply
choose a fan and demolish them in court? It is within the rights of the
people receiving letters from Fox to ignore them and force Fox to pursue
the matter in court, which would be fairly expensive. Instead, Fox is
allowing them to clean up their sites before they suffer anything but a
bit of embarrassment.
>
> If a web site is using photos or logos or WHATEVER, they are not in
violation of the law
> until one of the above situations occurs. Now, if all the credits are
given and the
> entire thing is non-profit, then there's no problem.
Well, I guess I can scan in Rober Jordan's new nobel and post a PDF file
to my web page, as long as I don't charge anything and maintain Tor's
copyright notice?
If they are using other people's property without consent they are in
violation of copyright rules, unless it fits narrow exceptions (i.e. fair
use).
> The motive behind Fox's behavior: money.
Duh! Everyone knows this; I doubt Fox would say anything to the
contrary. The motive (Fox's, at least) behind producing the X-Files is
money.
> Fox wants you to come to THEM to get your XF/Millennium fix. Not to some
fan who just
> wants to share. They want you to come to them. And if they can figure
out some way to
> make you pay for it, then they'll do that, too. Witness the
XF/CreationCon money-ripoff
> situation.
That's right, because they bought the X-Files from CC; its their property
to do with as they see fit. You can argue til everyone is blue in the
face about whether Fox is being smart in their actions, but it falls
within their rights to control their product. People are only free to
"share" what belongs to them.
> Now, Clint, I don't want to single you out for your ignorance on this
subject, but you
> (and others who've taken a high-handed attitude to this debate) have to
FULLY UNDERSTAND
> the true nature of the law and the implications that recent events have.
Specifically:
> how does this impact on our First Amendment rights?
>
> In the case of Gil Trevizo, no law was broken. A large, very rich
corporation basically
> used undue influence to violate Gil's First Amendment rights. This is an
extremely
> serious legal development, and one that has far-reaching impact, if
folks would take the
> time to see it for what it is.
I'm sorry to single you out, as it is a common misperception, but you need
to read the 1st amendment. It, and later modifying amendments, extend
protection against GOVERNMENT interference in free speech. Courts have
extended this to entities offering themselves as public gathering points
(malls), but even there have allowed private concerns to impose strict
limitations.
>
> There is only one real solution to the problem: strike back.
>
> It's time to show Fox two things: 1) it can not violate your rights for
monetary reasons
> with impunity, they ARE going to be called on the carpet and 2) it's far
more COSTLY for
> them to continue doing so.
If you seriously believe this claptrap, then put your money where your
mouth is. Go ahead and put up a graphics-intensive page using material
owned by Fox. Shove it in their face. Ignore their cease and desist
letters. Fight them in court. Lose.
> What I mean is this: boycott the products advertised during XF and
Millennium. Go ahead
> and watch the shows, but don't buy the products. Go out of your WAY not
to buy the
> products. And let those companies know exactly why you aren't buying
their products.
All within your rights as a consumer. Please feel free to do so. And
I'll continue to support Fox's commitment to the X-Filea and Millenium.
Stew