shipper horror to come
724138
With all this talk of increased UST during the first four eps, everyone
around here seems to be getting all excited about what shipper moments
await us in the movie, but consider this:
Do you really think this cosiness is going to continue for all of 5th
season?!
CC likes to rock the boat. Calm before the storm, people.
WE'RE the ones getting too comfy. Just when we get used to this flirting
and suggestive banter, he's gonna throw us a curve ball.
Wouldn't it make more sense to start this leading-up-to-the-movie-kiss
stuff later on in the season?
Something's brewing, folks, and it's not ice tea.
-laura.. who doesn't want anyone to get her wrong and think she doesn't
LIKE all this shippy stuff - she's just more than a little paranoid -
nothing's ever this good for long in CC's dark little world.
Sandy Swanson
You just *had* to go and bust our balloon, dinncha? ;)
You're absolutely right about this. CC's just setting us up to make us
suffer later. For example, this "delicious liason" we've been taunted
with has yet to develop. Since "Herrenvolk," my money's been on a
Mulder / Marita thing.
God, I hate this show.
Sandy
Editor, X-Ville Obfuscator
dull,sock
Carolin
On 25 Nov 1997 ba...@i1.net wrote:
> >
> >Something's brewing, folks, and it's not ice tea.
> >
as long as it's not root beer...
Carolin
GABAL, Mulderite, SHIPPER and overall good phile
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If speaking your mind makes you a
lesbian, then by the lord Harry, I'm a screaming,
flaming dyke who just happens to sleep with guys.
--Leigh Anne Vrabel (Luna lumen)
GABAL alt.tv.x-files
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Andrew In Amherst
When Laura (724...@ican.net) wrote the following, she expressed
something that has crossed my mind. I didn't post it, because I didn't
want to appear any more of a hard-hearted NoRomo than I already have.
: With all this talk of increased UST during the first four eps, everyone
: around here seems to be getting all excited about what shipper moments
: await us in the movie, but consider this:
: Do you really think this cosiness is going to continue for all of 5th
: season?!
: CC likes to rock the boat. Calm before the storm, people.
: WE'RE the ones getting too comfy. Just when we get used to this flirting
: and suggestive banter, he's gonna throw us a curve ball.
: Wouldn't it make more sense to start this leading-up-to-the-movie-kiss
: stuff later on in the season?
: Something's brewing, folks, and it's not ice tea.
: -laura.. who doesn't want anyone to get her wrong and think she doesn't
: LIKE all this shippy stuff - she's just more than a little paranoid -
: nothing's ever this good for long in CC's dark little world.
Yes, I suspect that CC and FS (Cartis and Spotz-head) are chuckling
about this just about now. They left in the ACHE (arm-chewing hospital
extravaganza) and other apparently 'shipper-friendly scenes just to
cause 'shipper pain later.
Andrew in Amherst
Visit my XF site:
http://www-vms.oit.umass.edu/~watson/xf.html
for my X-Rospective (comments on the show, including most of season 4)
fanfic, and
Musings of an OBSSEd Pro-UST NoRomo: Thoughts on the relationship
lynx mulderite
I'm afraid I agree. There's going to be a rift before the movie- I can
feel it in my paranoid bones. I don't want it that way - but you can't
trust the 1013 guys farther than you can throw 'em.
lynx
mulderite
lynx mulderite
Sandy Swanson wrote:
> ...For example, this "delicious liason" we've been taunted
> with has yet to develop. Since "Herrenvolk," my money's been on a
> Mulder / Marita thing.
> God, I hate this show.
If the Marita/Mulder thing goes down, so will I.
lynx
mulderite [please CC, keep him pure for Dana]
Susan J. Daniell
Andrew In Amherst wrote:
> When Laura (724...@ican.net) wrote the following, she expressed
> something that has crossed my mind. I didn't post it, because I didn't
>
> want to appear any more of a hard-hearted NoRomo than I already have.
>
> : With all this talk of increased UST during the first four eps,
> everyone
> : around here seems to be getting all excited about what shipper
> moments
> : await us in the movie, but consider this:
>
> : Do you really think this cosiness is going to continue for all of
> 5th
> : season?!
>
> : CC likes to rock the boat. Calm before the storm, people.
>
> : WE'RE the ones getting too comfy. Just when we get used to this
> flirting
> : and suggestive banter, he's gonna throw us a curve ball.
>
> : Wouldn't it make more sense to start this
> leading-up-to-the-movie-kiss
> : stuff later on in the season?
>
> : Something's brewing, folks, and it's not ice tea.
>
> : -laura.. who doesn't want anyone to get her wrong and think she
> doesn't
> : LIKE all this shippy stuff - she's just more than a little paranoid
> -
> : nothing's ever this good for long in CC's dark little world.
>
> Yes, I suspect that CC and FS (Cartis and Spotz-head) are chuckling
> about this just about now. They left in the ACHE (arm-chewing hospital
>
> extravaganza) and other apparently 'shipper-friendly scenes just to
> cause 'shipper pain later.
>
> Andrew in Amherst
>
> Visit my XF site:
> http://www-vms.oit.umass.edu/~watson/xf.html
> for my X-Rospective (comments on the show, including most of season 4)
>
> fanfic, and
> Musings of an OBSSEd Pro-UST NoRomo: Thoughts on the relationship
I'm wondering if we're getting ourselves all excited over nothing. We
are told that something happens between M&S in the movie. If that's
true, then what is their relationship going to be in season 6? Or the
proposed subsequent movies? CC has stated that it won't happen, if
there was not going to be a season 6, then I'd believe the rumours about
the movie, but right now, I'm very wary. And I'm definatley a shipper.
--
Susan J. Daniell
Toronto, Canada
sdan...@total.net
Grispy
In article <347b6...@oit.umass.edu>, WAT...@kidder.oit.umass.edu (Andrew
In Amherst) wrote:
> When Laura (724...@ican.net) wrote the following, she expressed
> something that has crossed my mind. I didn't post it, because I didn't
> want to appear any more of a hard-hearted NoRomo than I already have.
>
> : With all this talk of increased UST during the first four eps, everyone
> : around here seems to be getting all excited about what shipper moments
> : await us in the movie, but consider this:
>
> : Do you really think this cosiness is going to continue for all of 5th
> : season?!
>
> : CC likes to rock the boat. Calm before the storm, people.
>
> : WE'RE the ones getting too comfy. Just when we get used to this flirting
> : and suggestive banter, he's gonna throw us a curve ball.
>
> : Wouldn't it make more sense to start this leading-up-to-the-movie-kiss
> : stuff later on in the season?
>
> : Something's brewing, folks, and it's not ice tea.
>
> : -laura.. who doesn't want anyone to get her wrong and think she doesn't
> : LIKE all this shippy stuff - she's just more than a little paranoid -
> : nothing's ever this good for long in CC's dark little world.
>
> Yes, I suspect that CC and FS (Cartis and Spotz-head) are chuckling
> about this just about now. They left in the ACHE (arm-chewing hospital
> extravaganza) and other apparently 'shipper-friendly scenes just to
> cause 'shipper pain later.
>
> Andrew in Amherst
AAAAAAAAHHHH! You guys must be the ones who pack umbrellas in July 'cause
it's gonna be winter soon; you frown when you win the lottery, knowing the
money won't last; and you probably buy new paper towels before the old roll
runs out, too, right??? :p I *know* the happy-happy-joy-joy can't last
forever, but let me live in my delusional little
Camelot-where-the-coffee-cup-is-bottomless until I have to face X-F
reality! Please please please don't tell me my bank account is overdrawn
*again*---I'll find out soon enough on my own! ;)
Gil
who won't believe in alligators til she suddenly has a wooden leg...
--
*********************************
Hard work pays off in the future.
Laziness pays off NOW.
*********************************
To EMAIL me, *remove* the "x" from my address.
CKMatthews
I've got my own very Melrosian, and hopefully wrong, theory about the form the
shipper horror could take. Don't get me wrong -- I don't think this is
actually what CC and company have up their collective sleeve. It doesn't seem
their style at all. This is just my personal rambling.
All of this "Scully hearing the voice of some unborn child" talk got me to
thinking, and "Detour" gave me an identifiable, if unwelcome, idea.
(Contributing to this inanity is a magazine article about the movie that
described Mulder as going up to knock on the door of his "partner, and perhaps
now lover" Scully.) My vote for personal shipper hell: M&S get themselves
even *more* emotionally entangled with an ill-planned one night stand (perhaps
as a result of the angst-fest which must arise at some point to deal with the
cancer's remission). This inevitably pulls them apart, yet again, even as it
draws them closer together. Maybe there's even a zygote involved, which would
no doubt fail to make it through the season, but since Scully's ova are all
supposed to be on ice somewhere anyway -- except for that vial Mulder stuck in
his pocket -- I suppose that could count as continuity. Some sort of
resolution follows, maybe. If the boys at 1013 could manage to keep track of
the storyline long enough.
I don't pretend it's a *good* scenario, or even an interesting one. And it's
definitely more Spelling than Spotnitz.
Meyer/Gass
Thanks for depressing me.
Andrew In Amherst <WAT...@kidder.oit.umass.edu> wrote in article
<347b6...@oit.umass.edu>...
> When Laura (724...@ican.net) wrote the following, she expressed
> something that has crossed my mind. I didn't post it, because I didn't
> want to appear any more of a hard-hearted NoRomo than I already have.
>
> : With all this talk of increased UST during the first four eps, everyone
> : around here seems to be getting all excited about what shipper moments
> : await us in the movie, but consider this:
>
> : Do you really think this cosiness is going to continue for all of 5th
> : season?!
>
> : CC likes to rock the boat. Calm before the storm, people.
>
> : WE'RE the ones getting too comfy. Just when we get used to this
flirting
> : and suggestive banter, he's gonna throw us a curve ball.
>
> : Wouldn't it make more sense to start this leading-up-to-the-movie-kiss
> : stuff later on in the season?
>
> : Something's brewing, folks, and it's not ice tea.
>
> : -laura.. who doesn't want anyone to get her wrong and think she
doesn't
> : LIKE all this shippy stuff - she's just more than a little paranoid -
> : nothing's ever this good for long in CC's dark little world.
>
> Yes, I suspect that CC and FS (Cartis and Spotz-head) are chuckling
> about this just about now. They left in the ACHE (arm-chewing hospital
> extravaganza) and other apparently 'shipper-friendly scenes just to
> cause 'shipper pain later.
>
> Andrew in Amherst
>
Meyer/Gass
lynx mulderite <lyn...@erols.com> wrote in article
<347B38...@erols.com>...
It would be horrible if that happened. I'm with you on NOOOO..
724138
> > : Something's brewing, folks, and it's not ice tea.
> >
> > : -laura.. who doesn't want anyone to get her wrong and think she
doesn't
> > : LIKE all this shippy stuff - she's just more than a little paranoid -
> > : nothing's ever this good for long in CC's dark little world.
> >
> > Yes, I suspect that CC and FS (Cartis and Spotz-head) are chuckling
> > about this just about now. They left in the ACHE (arm-chewing hospital
> > extravaganza) and other apparently 'shipper-friendly scenes just to
> > cause 'shipper pain later.
> >
> > Andrew in Amherst
>
'cause
> it's gonna be winter soon; you frown when you win the lottery, knowing
the
Not umbrellas, PARKAS! Where's your winter? Mine's in THe Great White
North where old man winter would laugh in spite at your umbrella and
promtly blow it away.
> money won't last; and you probably buy new paper towels before the old
roll
> runs out, too, right??? :p I *know* the happy-happy-joy-joy can't last
> forever, but let me live in my delusional little
> Camelot-where-the-coffee-cup-is-bottomless until I have to face X-F
> reality! Please please please don't tell me my bank account is overdrawn
> *again*---I'll find out soon enough on my own! ;)
Hey.. someone's gotta be the pessimist.. besides, isn't it better to
ANTICIPATE the potential rift before it hits? At least then you won't have
to use up all those paper towels because you ran out of kleenex during the
episode!
BTW - if you need any paper towels, I've got a horde of 'em in my closest -
just in case of hurricanes. We get so many of them up here in Ottawa in
the middle of winter, you know.
> Gil
> who won't believe in alligators til she suddenly has a wooden leg...
Don't fear the wooden leg - it will make your life more meaningful just
carrying on and you won't have to chase after these creatures of the
unknown!
-Laura..
who would like Gil to know that while she may horde paper towels and
anticipate CC's reign of terror to come, she doesn't start essays until the
very last minute and is now suffering for it!
Joe Ramirez
lynx mulderite <lyn...@erols.com> wrote:
>Sandy Swanson wrote:
>> ...For example, this "delicious liason" we've been taunted
>> with has yet to develop. Since "Herrenvolk," my money's been on a
>> Mulder / Marita thing.
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>
>> God, I hate this show.
>If the Marita/Mulder thing goes down, so will I.
>lynx
>mulderite [please CC, keep him pure for Dana]
From the Shipper of Necessity perspective <g>, a romantic or sexual
relationship between Mulder and Marita, or between Mulder and any
woman other than Scully, would constitute a *profound* betrayal by
Mulder, of both Scully and his own emotions. Not adultery per se, but
something similar, and just as devastating. The Mulder of the
midpoint of season 3 could still get away with idle flirtations ("War
of the Coprophages," "Syzygy") because it was still possible (even if
not very realistic) for both Mulder and Scully to affirm to themselves
that their own personal relationship was "merely" a close friendship.
After "Pusher," "Never Again," "Memento Mori," and especially "Redux
II," such affirmations are no longer possible. I believe that both
Mulder and Scully now realize that they are in love with each other;
only fear and habit have prevented them from openly acknowledging that
reality. But despite the conspiracy of silence, they both *know*.
Being too frightened and/or immature to take the obvious next step is
no excuse for Mulder to stray, as it were. If he does, his character
will bear a black mark that will make him offensive to both Scully and
many viewers.
Joe Ramirez
RSharma007
>With all this talk of increased UST during the first four eps, everyone
>around here seems to be getting all excited about what shipper moments
>await us in the movie, but consider this:
>
>Do you really think this cosiness is going to continue for all of 5th
>season?!
>
>CC likes to rock the boat. Calm before the storm, people.
>
>WE'RE the ones getting too comfy. Just when we get used to this flirting
>and suggestive banter, he's gonna throw us a curve ball.
>
>Wouldn't it make more sense to start this leading-up-to-the-movie-kiss
>stuff later on in the season?
>
>
> -laura.. who doesn't want anyone to get her wrong and think she doesn't
>LIKE all this shippy stuff - she's just more than a little paranoid -
>nothing's ever this good for long in CC's dark little world.
>
>
>
>
>
>
In the words of that crazy selfologist:
DON'T BE SO DARK!!!
Ruby:)
SHIPPER FOR LIFE!
Coleen Sullivan-Baier
>If the Marita/Mulder thing goes down, so will I.
"Mulder thing goes down" is an extremely poor choice of
phraseology amidst this group of perverts......
XXXXXXXXXXXXXgizzieXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
(not *me* of course)
JennBUpG
I read somewhere that Scully will consider leaving the X Files in the movie.
There will definitely be some kind of disagreement, but the shippers will come
out on top :-)
Rachael
RSharma007 wrote:
> In the words of that crazy selfologist:
>
> DON'T BE SO DARK!!!
>
> Ruby:)
> SHIPPER FOR LIFE!
Okay, this is totally off the subject from this thread, but since you
mentioned selfosophy...
Did anyone else watch the FX rerun of "One Breath"? In the scene where Mulder
comes back from the hospital and cries, he does that thing with his hands...
you know... turns them up. :-)
I know it has nothing to do with the Millenium ep, but it's one of those weird
coincidences. *grin*
Rachael
(If coincidences are just coincidences, why do they feel so contrived? -Clyde
Bruckman's Final Repose)
Grispy
> From the Shipper of Necessity perspective <g>, a romantic or sexual
> relationship between Mulder and Marita, or between Mulder and any
> woman other than Scully, would constitute a *profound* betrayal by
> Mulder, of both Scully and his own emotions. Not adultery per se, but
> something similar, and just as devastating. The Mulder of the
> midpoint of season 3 could still get away with idle flirtations ("War
> of the Coprophages," "Syzygy") because it was still possible (even if
> not very realistic) for both Mulder and Scully to affirm to themselves
> that their own personal relationship was "merely" a close friendship.
> After "Pusher," "Never Again," "Memento Mori," and especially "Redux
> II," such affirmations are no longer possible. I believe that both
> Mulder and Scully now realize that they are in love with each other;
> only fear and habit have prevented them from openly acknowledging that
> reality. But despite the conspiracy of silence, they both *know*.
> Being too frightened and/or immature to take the obvious next step is
> no excuse for Mulder to stray, as it were. If he does, his character
> will bear a black mark that will make him offensive to both Scully and
> many viewers.
>
> Joe Ramirez
What a concise argument!
Ok, I'm re-designating myself. No longer *just* a Shipper:
Gil
*Shipper(N)*
Grispy
> -Laura..
> who would like Gil to know that while she may horde paper towels and
> anticipate CC's reign of terror to come, she doesn't start essays until the
> very last minute and is now suffering for it!
Lol...that's how I got through college at all! Suffering is the one great
motivator. Fun comes in at a close second, but fun never inspired me to
read Melville! (And the paper towels then come in handy to mop the
sweating brow...)
Thank god X-F switched to Sunday nights *before* I graduated. :)
Gil
who never got an A on a paper unless she read the book the night before...
(suspecting that's waaaay too much information about my short-term memory)
Champey
In article <347cc19d...@news2.ibm.net>, jra...@ibm.net (Joe Ramirez)
writes:
>>Sandy Swanson wrote:
>> ...For example, this "delicious liason" we've been
>taunted
>> with has yet to develop. Since "Herrenvolk," my money's been on
>a
>> Mulder / Marita thing.
Saying Mulder and Marita in the same breath makes me want to throw up. Your
money would be wasted ...
Barbara
Meyer/Gass
JennBUpG <jenn...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971127195...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
I have read the same thing too.
R. Scott Carr
Joe Ramirez wrote:
> From the Shipper of Necessity perspective <g>, a romantic or sexual
> relationship between Mulder and Marita, or between Mulder and any
> woman other than Scully, would constitute a *profound* betrayal by
> Mulder, of both Scully and his own emotions. Not adultery per se, but
> something similar, and just as devastating. The Mulder of the
> midpoint of season 3 could still get away with idle flirtations ("War
> of the Coprophages," "Syzygy") because it was still possible (even if
> not very realistic) for both Mulder and Scully to affirm to themselves
> that their own personal relationship was "merely" a close friendship.
> After "Pusher," "Never Again," "Memento Mori," and especially "Redux
> II," such affirmations are no longer possible. I believe that both
> Mulder and Scully now realize that they are in love with each other;
> only fear and habit have prevented them from openly acknowledging that
> reality. But despite the conspiracy of silence, they both *know*.
> Being too frightened and/or immature to take the obvious next step is
> no excuse for Mulder to stray, as it were. If he does, his character
> will bear a black mark that will make him offensive to both Scully and
> many viewers.
>
> Joe Ramirez
Wish I could have expressed this so well myself.
--
Scott Carr
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/7503
Monkey5s
Laura wrote:
<much snippage of everyone's posts, to get to the part I loved!>
>who would like Gil to know that while she may horde paper towels and
>anticipate CC's reign of terror to come...
THIS is a keeper! CC's reign of terror to come! Shall we start a pool, how long
before the bad times begin? What the first sign of trouble will likely be? From
which side of the partnership will it come?
And you KNOW CC is sitting there, eyes a-twinking, as he thinks about it! AR AR
AR!!
Monkey5s
dull,thimble
Barb Sterling
I tend to agree that its the calm befor the storm. CC's talented, don't get me
wrong, but not talented enough to keep this UST going as strong as it is for
all of the fifth season without making M & S end up together (and by the way,
this isn't going to happen before the movie or maybe not at all, cause CC knows
the whole "Friends" tragedy and that putting M & S together would not be the
best plan right now anyway). I have a e-mail buddy who told me that for the
upcoming ep, she heard somewhere (sorry, can't confirm where), that M & S
danced in the last scene and that the ending was a jaw dropper. I betting that
Scully will just be getting cosy with Mulder when he says out of nowhere, "Oh,
by the way, did I tell you that I've met someone...she works at the drycleaners
down the street from my apartment." The tension for the rest of season five
will be Scully trying to figure out how the hell everything went so bad all of
a sudden, but she, of coarse, won't be in a position to do anything about it
(like tell him how she feels) 'cause she thinks that Mulder doesn't share the
same feelings. UST city. Or it could be the other way around with Mulder
getting the shaft. E-mail me your thoughts on this directly at
wocket...@hotmail.com...Thanks...Kim
Sandy Swanson wrote:
> You just *had* to go and bust our balloon, dinncha? ;)
>
> You're absolutely right about this. CC's just setting us up to make us
> suffer later. For example, this "delicious liason" we've been taunted
> with has yet to develop. Since "Herrenvolk," my money's been on a
> Mulder / Marita thing.
>
> God, I hate this show.
>
> Sandy
> Editor, X-Ville Obfuscator
> dull,sock
>
> 724138 wrote:
> >
724138
Monkey5s <monk...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971128070...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Laura wrote:
>
> <much snippage of everyone's posts, to get to the part I loved!>
>
> >who would like Gil to know that while she may horde paper towels and
> >anticipate CC's reign of terror to come...
>
> THIS is a keeper! CC's reign of terror to come! Shall we start a pool,
how long
> before the bad times begin? What the first sign of trouble will likely
be? From
> which side of the partnership will it come?
Okey dokey.. put me in for the upcoming two parter. Christmas Carol/Emily.
Two Possibilities:
1) The lately Lesser-Punk has yet to tell the Sainted-One about those eggs
of her's he pocketed at the research facility in MEMENTO MORI. She won't
be terribly pleased when she finds out he's been keeping that information
from her.
2) Frank Spotnitz scared us with talk of "a delicious liaison in the
works". As much as we can hope and pray, there's probably a pretty damned
good chance that it involves one of our heroes. Hopefully it'll work out
somewhat like NEVER AGAIN, where even though Scully was in a be-it-short
relationship w/ another, the whole episode was about M&S' relationship.
SIDE NOTE: On the subject of DELICIOUS LIAISONS, I still won't rule of the
Krycek/Marita idea (professional + personal relationship?) There's still
that blurred figure standing behind her in ZERO SUM. Some say it's the
Fat Italian Dude, others say Krycek. My bet is that when CC and co. put
the individual there, THEY didn't even know who it would be. However, I DO
know that Nick Lea will be on the X-set in January, so I guess we'll figure
it out during FEB SWEEPS.
> And you KNOW CC is sitting there, eyes a-twinking, as he thinks about it!
AR AR
> AR!!
CC - You reading this? WE'RE ON TO YOU! Stop that Twinkling!
-laura.. who encourages Frank to read MORE ('shipper) FANFIC!
dschleef
724138 wrote:
>
> Okey dokey.. put me in for the upcoming two parter. Christmas Carol/Emily.
> Two Possibilities:
>
> 1) The lately Lesser-Punk has yet to tell the Sainted-One about those eggs
> of her's he pocketed at the research facility in MEMENTO MORI. She won't
> be terribly pleased when she finds out he's been keeping that information
> from her.
>
> 2) Frank Spotnitz scared us with talk of "a delicious liaison in the
> works". As much as we can hope and pray, there's probably a pretty damned
> good chance that it involves one of our heroes. Hopefully it'll work out
> somewhat like NEVER AGAIN, where even though Scully was in a be-it-short
> relationship w/ another, the whole episode was about M&S' relationship.
> My own thoughts about the "delicious liasion" may be WAY off base, but I'm
wondering if it has anything to do with the "Scully considers adopting a baby"
rumors. I know that's interpreting it broadly, but what if Scully "falls in
love" with an infant (somehow connected, or as a result of, hearing Melissa's
baby crying in the upcoming eps) and considers having/raising a baby. I think
the rumor was meant to throw us off, anyway, especially thinking about M or S
with someone else; but what if it's THIS kind of someone else? Spotnitz added
in TV Guide, "It makes you happy, but whether you necessarily want the
entanglement or not--I can't answer that." For me, this fits the bill. If
it's tied into the eggs/infertility issue, and Scully re-evaluating her life,
and leads to a (hopefully temporary) rift between our heroes (how could it
not?), so much the better, as far as I'm concerned.
Of course, it should be tied into some delicious creepiness/conspiracy stuff.
MarmaladeSkies
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_01BCFC13.09DEB620
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From what I hear it's Marita/Skinner.
------=_NextPart_000_01BCFC13.09DEB620
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">From what I hear it's =
Marita/Skinner.<br><br><br></p>
</font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BCFC13.09DEB620--
JJacov2997
>I read somewhere that Scully will consider leaving the X Files in the movie.
>There will definitely be some kind of disagreement, but the shippers will
>come
>out on top :-)
You know, in a Mulder/Scully relationship context, it'd probably be better if
one of *them* came out on top! <VBEG>
Jo.
Pass Ave
Monkey5s asked:
>CC's reign of terror to come! Shall we start a pool, how long
>before the bad times begin? What the first sign of trouble will likely be?
>From
>which side of the partnership will it come?
My money is on a rift the size of the Grand Canyon, as dense as Mulder, as
skeptical as Scully. Scully will feel betrayed. Mulder will be ohmy
alienated. They will be forced to work together but won't do it well--Skinner
will notice. I'm guessing the last 4 episodes of the season culminating in a
thundering hush not heard since M&W promised "Never Again". If it does involve
an *other* Scully will be the one involved.
Jill
Coleen Sullivan-Baier
In <01bcfc45$54792620$5d0d53d1@cphung> "MarmaladeSkies"
AAAUUUUGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
Oh, please say it ain't so!!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXgizzieXXXXXXXXXXXXX
(intrigued, though, by the Marita/Krycek rumor)
Joe Ramirez
Barb Sterling <Red...@agt.net> wrote:
>I tend to agree that its the calm befor the storm. CC's talented, don't get me
>wrong, but not talented enough to keep this UST going as strong as it is for
>all of the fifth season without making M & S end up together (and by the way,
>this isn't going to happen before the movie or maybe not at all, cause CC knows
>the whole "Friends" tragedy and that putting M & S together would not be the
>best plan right now anyway). I have a e-mail buddy who told me that for the
>upcoming ep, she heard somewhere (sorry, can't confirm where), that M & S
>danced in the last scene and that the ending was a jaw dropper. I betting that
>Scully will just be getting cosy with Mulder when he says out of nowhere, "Oh,
>by the way, did I tell you that I've met someone...she works at the drycleaners
>down the street from my apartment." The tension for the rest of season five
>will be Scully trying to figure out how the hell everything went so bad all of
>a sudden, but she, of coarse, won't be in a position to do anything about it
>(like tell him how she feels) 'cause she thinks that Mulder doesn't share the
>same feelings. UST city. Or it could be the other way around with Mulder
>getting the shaft. E-mail me your thoughts on this directly at
>wocket...@hotmail.com...Thanks...Kim
>
Although I've styled myself a Shipper of Necessity rather than a
Shipper of Desire, I must admit that the scenario you describe makes
me somewhat ... queasy. Still, it just does not seem credible. After
"Redux II," in which Scully's devotion was more apparent than ever,
and Mulder practically shouted out "I love you!" with eyeball
semaphore, an abrupt about-face like that sketched in your comment
would defy explanation. In fact, it would constitute the very sort of
inexplicable, sensationalized, soap-operatic development that the
anti-shippers always have proclaimed would be the ruination of the
show (only from the opposite direction, of course).
On the other hand, if indeed a "jaw dropper" is in the works, I would
not be surprised to see one of the agents announce his/her resignation
from the FBI, or departure from the X-Files case load. I think it
would a natural move for Scully at this point -- she's finally got her
health back, and certainly has no need to continue dancing with death
on the job. She should go back to Quantico, or perhaps get a position
at a medical school, teaching pathology. Severing her professional
relationship with Mulder certainly does not have to mean ending her
personal relationship with him; in fact, it might be just the tactic
to combat his placid inertia.
Or maybe Mulder will quit. He thought about doing so twice in Season
2; why not now? Does he really want to continue to jeopardize
Scully's life, and his own, in battles that by now he knows he cannot
win alone? What else can he accomplish? He's seen Samantha, and
knows she's alive and well; with time, she may contact him again.
He's had more than a lifetime's worth of derring-do, and he's found
Scully. He should marry her, get a job at a university, and pursue
his interest in the paranormal through less stressful means.
(Naturally, I don't actually recommend this plotline to the writers of
the show!)
Joe Ramirez
Teddi Litman
In article <65ni46$t...@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>,
giz...@ix.netcom.com(Coleen Sullivan-Baier) wrote:
Either way...sadly... it would appear Marita would be most likely be half
of this said "liason." I just wish this wouldn't be the case, Marita is
just SO boring! If not Marita, I would think half would have to be
Scully... which I still doubt as there seems to be a conspiracy against
Scully ever getting any.<G> If both Marita and Scully were eliminated as
candidates... nah, they'd never go for slash. Too bad, even though I'm not a
particular fan of X-Files slash, it would be much more fun than any "liason"
involving Marita. No don't even suggest it ... ok I will: Scully/Marita
EEWWW!!! <shudder>
Teddi
perse...@hotmail.com
On 28 Nov 1997 22:57:04 GMT, pas...@aol.com (Pass Ave) wrote:
>Monkey5s asked:
>
>>CC's reign of terror to come! Shall we start a pool, how long
>>before the bad times begin? What the first sign of trouble will likely be?
>>From
>>which side of the partnership will it come?
>
I would put my money not on a rift, but on Scully deciding she wants a
life. Most likely, fall-out from the adoption thing...
My two cents. Five bucks Canadian.
Morgaine
-----------------------------------------------
"Thou speakest aright
I am that merry wanderer of the night."
The Bard
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8603/
-----------------------------------------------
perse...@hotmail.com
On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:54:00 GMT, jra...@ibm.net (Joe Ramirez) wrote:
>Or maybe Mulder will quit. He thought about doing so twice in Season
>2; why not now? Does he really want to continue to jeopardize
>Scully's life, and his own, in battles that by now he knows he cannot
>win alone? What else can he accomplish? He's seen Samantha, and
>knows she's alive and well; with time, she may contact him again.
>He's had more than a lifetime's worth of derring-do, and he's found
>Scully. He should marry her, get a job at a university, and pursue
>his interest in the paranormal through less stressful means.
>(Naturally, I don't actually recommend this plotline to the writers of
>the show!)
>
>Joe Ramirez
*twinkle in the eye*
Hm. Joe, are you quite sure that you're really, truly, positively a
Shipper of Necessity only? I sense some spillover... ;)
In all seriously, though, I think your reasoning is quite sound. I
think that to deny any possibility of feelings between the two, at
this point, is to go through mental gymnastics of improbability. It
reaches the stage where it begins to detract from the
characterization, which is precisely what No-Romos wish to avoid.
Shall we dub it the Shipper Paradox?
However, there's always been one fly in the ointment for me: the
difference between conspiracy and MOW episodes. I am much more
comfortable giving in to my shipper twinges during the former, where
the epic, tragic stories leave Scully and Mulder clinging to each
other, unable to lean on, or find solace in, anyone else. These are
the episodes which transcend the "they're coworkers, it wouldn't be
professional" argument, since it seems as though their entire
workplace *is* the threat, for heaven's sake.
But MOW episodes are a little fuzzier, to me. Less profound in
feeling, most times, and more down to earth. It's easier to imagine
Scully and Mulder in a genuine relationship after an episode like
"Detour".... and easier to imagine the genuine problems that would
cause.
Just a thought.
Morgaine
(still gunning for the Sublime-ist angle)
Coleen Sullivan-Baier
In <65obgi$l...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com> Teddi Litman
<dayb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
> Either way...sadly... it would appear Marita would be most likely be
>half of this said "liason." I just wish this wouldn't be the case,
>Marita is just SO boring!
But maybe she wouldn't be, if she had something to DO.
Despite the folks who hated her on sight in "Herrenvolk", because
she was beautiful and blond, I think the rest of us were somewhat
intrigued. To me, she had an immediate empathy with Mulder, and it was
fairly clear she knew SOMETHING. I did not percieve a sexual interest
at ALL, not did I in "Tunguska", I think the neligee thing was as
gratuitously placed as the later Skinner briefs scene in "Zero Sum",
neither shot was really necessary, but was tittilatingly fun.
Back to the point, I think there was real POTENTIAL there for
Marita, but the writers really didn't know what to do with her.
Weather this be because she IS a "her", or that they are just
"mysterious informant"-ed out remains to be seen. I thought the
ending, ambiguous shadow scene in....was that "Zero Sum"??...was
intriguing,and it's kept US guessing, either way.
This is gonna be a cool year.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXgizzieXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
724138
Teddi Litman <dayb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<65obgi$l...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>...
> Scully ever getting any.<G> If both Marita and Scully were eliminated as
> candidates... nah, they'd never go for slash. Too bad, even though I'm
not a
> particular fan of X-Files slash, it would be much more fun than any
"liason"
> involving Marita. No don't even suggest it ... ok I will: Scully/Marita
> EEWWW!!! <shudder>
> Teddi
hehehe.. hey - imagine the publicity and Oooo.. the controversey.. and the
great parental warnings. it would blow HOME outta the water!
C'mon folks.. they'd look cute together!
-laura.. who hates Marita with a vengence, but believes Scully is still
entitled to get some every once in a while and appreciates the idea of a
little Jealous!Mulder.
724138
Joe Ramirez <jra...@ibm.net> wrote in article
>
> On the other hand, if indeed a "jaw dropper" is in the works, I would
> not be surprised to see one of the agents announce his/her resignation
> from the FBI, or departure from the X-Files case load. I think it
> would a natural move for Scully at this point -- she's finally got her
> health back, and certainly has no need to continue dancing with death
> on the job. She should go back to Quantico, or perhaps get a position
> at a medical school, teaching pathology. Severing her professional
> relationship with Mulder certainly does not have to mean ending her
> personal relationship with him; in fact, it might be just the tactic
> to combat his placid inertia.
I believe you to be correct, in the case of Scully - she quits, or tries to
quit, but this doesn't occur until the movie.
As for the motivations for this departure from the one most important thing
(other than Mulder) in her life, I doubt it will be as simple as no longer
wishing to put her life in danger. She has a greater, be it created,
responsibility to the truth, however Out There it may remain. This quest
has become too important to her. She won't give up now without a good
reason. I'm sure there will be one. Perhaps Mulder's obliviousness will
finally get to her and she'll have to leave because, though she loves him
more than anyone else in the world (and even the noromos must admit that),
she has to leave him or be entirely consumed by both him and the work to
the point where she can see nothing else. Perhaps this has already
happened. (Never Again)
-laura.. concerned for Scully's mental health
724138
Coleen Sullivan-Baier <giz...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<65p974$b...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>...
> intrigued. To me, she had an immediate empathy with Mulder, and it was
> fairly clear she knew SOMETHING. I did not percieve a sexual interest
> at ALL, not did I in "Tunguska", I think the neligee thing was as
> gratuitously placed
Ahh.. but you forget the music that accompanied that 3 minute scene of
Mulder and Marita's in Tunguska. It was a slight variation of the music
played during the infamously hated bathroom scene in "3". And we all know
what that was about.
It's MULDER/OTHER music!
-laura.. who can see, even as she points that out that it was very likely
somewhat of a tease more than foreshadowing. <crosses fingers>
Joe Ramirez
perse...@hotmail.com wrote:
>On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 05:54:00 GMT, jra...@ibm.net (Joe Ramirez) wrote:
>
>>Or maybe Mulder will quit. He thought about doing so twice in Season
>>2; why not now? Does he really want to continue to jeopardize
>>Scully's life, and his own, in battles that by now he knows he cannot
>>win alone? What else can he accomplish? He's seen Samantha, and
>>knows she's alive and well; with time, she may contact him again.
>>He's had more than a lifetime's worth of derring-do, and he's found
>>Scully. He should marry her, get a job at a university, and pursue
>>his interest in the paranormal through less stressful means.
>>(Naturally, I don't actually recommend this plotline to the writers of
>>the show!)
>>
>>Joe Ramirez
>
>*twinkle in the eye*
>
>Hm. Joe, are you quite sure that you're really, truly, positively a
>Shipper of Necessity only? I sense some spillover... ;)
I s'pose there is. <g> When I started watching *The X-Files* several
years ago, I simply wanted naturalistic character development, in any
direction. I like quality television drama series to *make sense*.
Nothing irritates me more than resort to the "Bonanza syndrome" (i.e.,
Hoss brings home a fiancee who is conveniently killed by the end of
the episode, in order to preserve the ratings-friendly status quo). I
became a Shipper of Necessity once the course of the Mulder-Scully
relationship became clear, at least to me. Although I endorse a
romantic relationship primarily because it has become necessary for
the show to maintain artistic integrity, I also admit that it's
certainly an *appealing* relationship. I've never said that the
Shippers of Desire were crazy. <g>
>
>In all seriously, though, I think your reasoning is quite sound. I
>think that to deny any possibility of feelings between the two, at
>this point, is to go through mental gymnastics of improbability. It
>reaches the stage where it begins to detract from the
>characterization, which is precisely what No-Romos wish to avoid.
>Shall we dub it the Shipper Paradox?
Right, the story contortions and character distortions that must occur
in order to avoid the "entanglements" of a romance become far worse
entanglements themselves. Reminds me of certain U.S. Supreme Court
opinions, but that's another story.
>
>However, there's always been one fly in the ointment for me: the
>difference between conspiracy and MOW episodes. I am much more
>comfortable giving in to my shipper twinges during the former, where
>the epic, tragic stories leave Scully and Mulder clinging to each
>other, unable to lean on, or find solace in, anyone else. These are
>the episodes which transcend the "they're coworkers, it wouldn't be
>professional" argument, since it seems as though their entire
>workplace *is* the threat, for heaven's sake.
>
>But MOW episodes are a little fuzzier, to me. Less profound in
>feeling, most times, and more down to earth. It's easier to imagine
>Scully and Mulder in a genuine relationship after an episode like
>"Detour".... and easier to imagine the genuine problems that would
>cause.
>
"Detour" seemed to be an eye-opener for some viewers, because it
demonstrated that attention paid to significant Scully-Mulder
interaction need not interfere with traditional X-Files storytelling.
(As Paula Graves noted in her review, the fact that the "Detour" story
was rather weak was an unfortunate but unrelated feature of the
episode.) Perhaps this is a lesson that Chris Carter and his acolytes
have learned as well, finally.
Joe Ramirez
724138
Meyer/Gass <den...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<01bcfb93$da337160$178ed9cf@debbie>...
>
>
> JennBUpG <jenn...@aol.com> wrote in article
> <19971127195...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> > I read somewhere that Scully will consider leaving the X Files in the
> movie.
> > There will definitely be some kind of disagreement, but the shippers
will
> come
> > out on top :-)
> >
> I have read the same thing too.
>
yay! let's start a ME TOO thread!
-laura.. whose already huge head ache increases at the thought of an
entire thread devoted to ME TOOs
laura capozzola
Coleen Sullivan-Baier wrote:
>
> In <65obgi$l...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com> Teddi Litman
> <dayb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> >
>
> > Either way...sadly... it would appear Marita would be most likely be
> >half of this said "liason." I just wish this wouldn't be the case,
> >Marita is just SO boring!
>
>
> But maybe she wouldn't be, if she had something to DO.
>
> Despite the folks who hated her on sight in "Herrenvolk", because
> she was beautiful and blond, I think the rest of us were somewhat
> fairly clear she knew SOMETHING. I did not percieve a sexual interest
> at ALL, not did I in "Tunguska", I think the neligee thing was as
> neither shot was really necessary, but was tittilatingly fun.
What negligee thing??? On my Tunguska episode she had on a white
bathrobe? Is my FX-less Maryland cable company at it again? Did, I
<gulp> miss a naked Alex Krycek scene? On second thought...don't tell
me.
Laura
Can't see FX re-runs
Don't get good audio
Have to squint to catch the closing credits because of local news promos
Maybe missing racy stuff, too JEESH!
#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#
"The truth, the truth.....there is no truth.
These men just make it up as they go along."
- Alex Krycek (Tunguska) -
#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#
laura capozzola
724138 wrote:
> -laura..
Dear 724138 Laura -
Remember you are not a number. You are a free woman. They can not
fold, spindle or mutilate you....When did the start giving us
Laura clones Model Numbers??? ;-D
-The Other Laura-
perse...@hotmail.com
On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:55:45 GMT, jra...@ibm.net (Joe Ramirez) wrote:
>>But MOW episodes are a little fuzzier, to me. Less profound in
>>feeling, most times, and more down to earth. It's easier to imagine
>>Scully and Mulder in a genuine relationship after an episode like
>>"Detour".... and easier to imagine the genuine problems that would
>>cause.
>>
>"Detour" seemed to be an eye-opener for some viewers, because it
>demonstrated that attention paid to significant Scully-Mulder
>interaction need not interfere with traditional X-Files storytelling.
>(As Paula Graves noted in her review, the fact that the "Detour" story
>was rather weak was an unfortunate but unrelated feature of the
>episode.) Perhaps this is a lesson that Chris Carter and his acolytes
>have learned as well, finally.
>
I would settle for some consistency between the two kinds of episodes;
at times, it almost feels like viewing two different relationships.
I agree that in theory, good writing should be able to address the
bugaboos of storytelling interferences. Speaking of Paula Graves, I
believe that in her review of Memento Mori she pointed out that while
Chris Carter has claimed he would never write a romance, he has ended
up writing one of the most moving marriages on television. (Did I get
that right, Paula? You can take away my sunflower seeds if I
misrepresented you.) So no, of course it need not interfere with good
storytelling, and indeed, it has not. The marriage already exists.
Now, whether this is something that Mr.Carter and Company have truly
processed... this is another question completely. We'll see where the
game takes us.
Morgaine
RSharma007
> I think it
>> would a natural move for Scully at this point -- she's finally got her
>> health back, and certainly has no need to continue dancing with death
>> on the job.
Well, since EVERYONE on this newsgroup has given their opinion about the
"Impending Doom" of M&S' relationship..I will throw my 2 cents in:
Based on personal experience and general observations that I have made in the
brief 19 years of life that I have so far been given, it seems that most
relationships end because someone LIES! Lying and deception cause many/most of
the problems between men and women. In the case of M&S, we all know that it is
Mulder who has lied to Scully. He hasn't told her that she cannot and probably
will never be able to conceive a child. This deception will, I believe, come to
light this season. So far CC has shown us FUZZY WARM M&S to set us up for the
BIG revelation that Mulder has not been honest with Scully. It is ironic to me
that Mulder, who is a man who obviously believes in the Truth, would lie.. and
lie to the most important person in his life. I guess we all hurt those we love
the most...and my friends, Scully will be hurt! She also values Truth and her
deception by Mulder will cause much pain for the both of them....The question
is..will the damage to their relationship be fixable?
Ruby:)
GravesPA2
Ruby writes:
>So far CC has shown us FUZZY WARM M&S to set us up for the BIG revelation that
Mulder has not been honest with Scully. It is ironic to me that Mulder, who is
a man who obviously believes in the Truth, would lie...and lie to the most
important person in his life. I guess we all hurt those we love the most...and
my friends, Scully will be hurt! She also values Truth and her deception by
Mulder will cause much pain for the both of them....The question
is..will the damage to their relationship be fixable?<
First---we don't know that Mulder hasn't told her, although I'll admit it's
quite possible.
Second--yes, the relationship will be fixable, if they deal with it soon. The
lie will not be the problem--Mulder not telling Scully about the ova is not an
attempt, on his part, to cover up a discretion of his own. The lie is an act
of omission, not commission--and I'm sure Scully is mature enough to recognize
that. But it WOULD raise an interesting problem between them---Mulder's
obsessive need to protect the people he loves, to the point that he makes
decisions for them that he has no right making.
This is where Mulder's ditching tendency comes from. It's where his decision to
keep the ova information from Scully in Memento Mori came from. Although we
don't yet know if he's told her about the ova or not, it's plausible that he's
kept silent.
I must say, too, that it's equally plausible that he told her. Mulder isn't
overly consistent on this subject, because equal to his need to protect Scully
is his need to run everything in his life by her for her input. So he could
just as easily have told her about it--and in true 1013 form, nobody has
bothered to let the audience in on it. (Remember how many episodes it took for
us to find out that Scully had told Mulder about the beings in the mineshaft in
Paper Clip and the chip she found in her neck in The Blessing Way? Nine or
ten, wasn't it? And we had only an oblique hint--10 episodes into Season
2--that she and Mulder had discussed the "alien baby" she had procured in The
Erlenmeyer Flask).
I'll agree that it's possible that Mulder lied--and that Scully will be upset.
But if so, he didn't lie to cover his own sins, and I believe Scully will take
that into consideration. Is it really impossible to forgive someone who loves
you enough to try to protect you, even if he makes the wrong choices?
Paula G
____________________________________________________________
"We all have our faith. And mine is in the Truth." - Fox Mulder, "Redux II"
umfr...@cc.umanitoba.ca
In <19971128225...@ladder02.news.aol.com> pas...@aol.com
(Pass Ave) writes:
>Monkey5s asked:
>>CC's reign of terror to come! Shall we start a pool, how long
>>before the bad times begin? What the first sign of trouble will likely be?
>>From
>>which side of the partnership will it come?
>My money is on a rift the size of the Grand Canyon, as dense as Mulder, as
>skeptical as Scully. Scully will feel betrayed. Mulder will be ohmy
>alienated. They will be forced to work together but won't do it well--Skinner
>will notice. I'm guessing the last 4 episodes of the season culminating in a
>thundering hush not heard since M&W promised "Never Again". If it does involve
>an *other* Scully will be the one involved.
What was it Frank Spotnitz said in TV Guide? Something to the effect that
the "delicious liason will make people happy". Given this tidbit of
information my money is on Mrs. Mulder and the CSM (probably in
flashback) or on The Uniblonder/Krycek.
Involving Scully and or Mulder with someone else at this point seems
highly unlikely and if the spoilers about the movie are true, any rift that
might exist by season's end is more the size of a crack in the sidewalk.
-----
Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca / kf...@pc-ieee1.ee.umanitoba.ca)
Computer Engineering IV
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Life...is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless,
perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for". - Cancer Man -
"Keep going FBI woman" - Fox Mulder -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
R. Scott Carr
Joe Ramirez wrote:
> Barb Sterling <Red...@agt.net> wrote:
>
> ><snip> I have a e-mail buddy who told me that for the
> >upcoming ep, she heard somewhere (sorry, can't confirm where), that M & S
> >danced in the last scene and that the ending was a jaw dropper. I betting that
> >Scully will just be getting cosy with Mulder when he says out of nowhere, "Oh,
> >by the way, did I tell you that I've met someone...she works at the drycleaners
> >down the street from my apartment." The tension for the rest of season five
> >will be Scully trying to figure out how the hell everything went so bad all of
> >a sudden, but she, of coarse, won't be in a position to do anything about it
> >(like tell him how she feels) 'cause she thinks that Mulder doesn't share the
> >same feelings. UST city.
>
> Although I've styled myself a Shipper of Necessity rather than a
> Shipper of Desire, I must admit that the scenario you describe makes
> me somewhat ... queasy. Still, it just does not seem credible. After
> "Redux II," in which Scully's devotion was more apparent than ever,
> and Mulder practically shouted out "I love you!" with eyeball
> semaphore, an abrupt about-face like that sketched in your comment
> would defy explanation. In fact, it would constitute the very sort of
> inexplicable, sensationalized, soap-operatic development that the
> anti-shippers always have proclaimed would be the ruination of the
> show (only from the opposite direction, of course).
> <snip>
> Joe Ramirez
Bingo! You win this week's prize for best advocate of the 'shipper perspective. In
essence, all 'shippers by now should be "'shippers of necessity" as well as
"'shippers of desire" because the M-S relationship is already a romance. Despite
all of CC's ill-advised vows from the X-Files' early days, M&S have been written as
lovers, and to undo that now for the sake of squeezing the last drops of UST out of
the series would require mental gymnastics of such complexity that much of the
audience would be alienated. So far, TXF has done well because its characters have
been so compelling -- after all, the plots range from bizarre to ludicrous.
Personally, what has kept me on board since I first began watching in season 1, has
been watching Mulder and Scully weather the storm together, falling in love in the
process. Yes, the action is cool and the special effects intriguing, but
characterization has been the wind in the X-Files' sails. "Never Again" ventured
into dangerous territory in this regard -- had they made the mistake of putting
Scully in bed with Tattoo, *that* would have been the sort of "Melrose Place"
atrocity that could ruined the show. Let's hope that a screw-up of that magnitude
is not planned for season 5.
If you are still with me, I'll take a moment to cite a few watershed moments in the
series:
In "Tooms," Scully makes a significant romantic overture to Mulder, which he brushes
off -- this is the famous "conversation in the car."
In the Scully-abduction arc, especially "One Breath," Mulder finally reveals through
his actions that he has fallen in love with his partner.
In "Colony/Endgame," Mulder trades away a being he believes to be his sister in
order to save Scully. I know CC said that Mulder gave up his "sister" because there
was some doubt about her authenticity, but that's bunk. I watched the two-parter
again after I heard that comment from CC, and Mulder's reactions to her apparent
death -- including his conversation with his father about losing her -- do not
support that assertion. Therefore, I believe that CC was blowing smoke in that
interview. Two scenes reveal Scully's emotional state during her rescue of Mulder.
In Skinner's office, she's literally panting she's so worried about Mulder and so
frustrated with Skinner's evident unwillingness to help her. Additionally, there is
the hospital scene where she alternates between her forceful takeover of the E.R.
and "wife at dying husband's bedside" mode.
"Pusher" has often been cited as a perfect example of the M-S romance in the series,
and there seems to be no need to discuss the "Memento Mori-Redux II" developments.
My point in citing these examples is that the horse is out of the barn, in terms of
the M-S romance. My advice to CC is let it run free -- don't shoot it.
Joe Ramirez
Thanks! I prefer payment in gold. <g>
>In essence, all 'shippers by now should be "'shippers of necessity" as well as
>"'shippers of desire" because the M-S relationship is already a romance. Despite
>all of CC's ill-advised vows from the X-Files' early days, M&S have been written as
>lovers, and to undo that now for the sake of squeezing the last drops of UST out of
>the series would require mental gymnastics of such complexity that much of the
>audience would be alienated. So far, TXF has done well because its characters have
>been so compelling -- after all, the plots range from bizarre to ludicrous.
>Personally, what has kept me on board since I first began watching in season 1, has
>been watching Mulder and Scully weather the storm together, falling in love in the
>process. Yes, the action is cool and the special effects intriguing, but
>characterization has been the wind in the X-Files' sails. "Never Again" ventured
>into dangerous territory in this regard -- had they made the mistake of putting
>Scully in bed with Tattoo, *that* would have been the sort of "Melrose Place"
>atrocity that could ruined the show. Let's hope that a screw-up of that magnitude
>is not planned for season 5.
This reminds me of something I posted last year (keep good archives of
your messages and you greatly reduce the need for additional thinking
<g>). I think we are in close agreement:
______________________________________________________
Over time, I believe, *The X-Files* will come to be recognized as
outstanding television primarily because of (a) the tone and mood of
the show, as created by the music, direction, writing, etc., and (b)
the astonishing chemistry among the actors (this is not limited to M &
S). The horror aspect of the show is not original (see *The Night
Stalker*), and similar ideas were handled with greater inventiveness
in *The Twilight Zone* and *Night Gallery*. The themes dealing with
anti-government paranoia and multifaceted conspiracies will, I'm
convinced, eventually be understood as reflections rather than sources
of fin de siecle discontent. In other words, although CC was the
first to bring alien abduction worries and "us vs. them" tension to
dramatic television, these ideas were already percolating through our
society, just waiting to be appropriated. If The X-Files hadn't
appeared, something similar probably would have emerged before too
long. But -- and this is the important point -- it probably would not
have been nearly as spellbinding, nor populated with such intriguing
and watchable people. So, fans who focus on the characters rather
than on the science fiction or horror stories have correctly
recognized where the real merit of the series lies, IMO.
________________________________________________________
If anything, I'm even more convinced of this now.
Joe Ramirez
Jeb J. Card
Joe Ramirez wrote:
quoted stuff cut involving the importance of the character chemistry and
the high quality of the X-Files production as being most important in
the long run.
> The themes dealing with
> anti-government paranoia and multifaceted conspiracies will, I'm
> convinced, eventually be understood as reflections rather than sources
> of fin de siecle discontent.
I am completely in agreement. Anybody who had their ear to the ground on
this saw it coming, although I never pictured Hallmark having a set of
greeting cards with Greys on them!
> In other words, although CC was the
> first to bring alien abduction worries and "us vs. them" tension to
> dramatic television, these ideas were already percolating through our
> society, just waiting to be appropriated. If The X-Files hadn't
> appeared, something similar probably would have emerged before too
> long. But -- and this is the important point -- it probably would not
> have been nearly as spellbinding, nor populated with such intriguing
> and watchable people.
Two words for ya:
Dark Skies.
Now before anyone gets on my case, I am aware that least for the
creators, this was not a rip-off. The idea had been percolating for a
couple of years. Furthermore, all the same mythology that both shows
utilize was out there and well known. But the problem that Dark Skies
befell, at least from a story-telling point, was it showed too much.
Dark Skies played like a textbook for "UFO Mythology 300: or 12 signs
that your might be a member of MAJIC". The extreme forms of American UFO
mythology (conspiracy-hidden nuts and bolts tech vs. the non-american
unified paranormal theory approach) sound simplistic retreads of older
themes (especially when it comes to underground bases).
CC, on the other hand, took these core ideas and melded it into
something distinctive. But more importantly, layered on top of it were
two characters which have become icons and archetypes.
Frankly I am at a loss to think of any tv or film which has utilized
recent UFO mythology successfully besides the X-Files (no, Independence
Day does not count). These stories work better in the realm of myth, not
drama. It is no surprise that a number of X-Files episodes have dealt
with storytelling and POV (Jose Chung, the otherwise dreadful El Mundo
Gira)
Barb Sterling
Nice idea for a jaw dropper. I can't decide though if it would be Scully or Mulder
that would leave the X-files. Is Scully sticking around only for Mulder? If this
is the case, if Mulder leaves Scully must also. Has Mulder found some sort of
closure to the Samantha thing or is he still just as dedicated to the truth? I
could almost see Scully quitting, and Mulder understanding for that matter. They
would remain close though and as you suggested, this might be the only way their
relationship could progress further. I think I'll stop writing though as I'll write
and write and CC will surprise me anyway. Thanks...Kim
Joe Ramirez wrote:
> Barb Sterling <Red...@agt.net> wrote:
>
> >I tend to agree that its the calm befor the storm. CC's talented, don't get me
> >wrong, but not talented enough to keep this UST going as strong as it is for
> >all of the fifth season without making M & S end up together (and by the way,
> >this isn't going to happen before the movie or maybe not at all, cause CC knows
> >the whole "Friends" tragedy and that putting M & S together would not be the
> >best plan right now anyway). I have a e-mail buddy who told me that for the
> >upcoming ep, she heard somewhere (sorry, can't confirm where), that M & S
> >danced in the last scene and that the ending was a jaw dropper. I betting that
> >Scully will just be getting cosy with Mulder when he says out of nowhere, "Oh,
> >by the way, did I tell you that I've met someone...she works at the drycleaners
> >down the street from my apartment." The tension for the rest of season five
> >will be Scully trying to figure out how the hell everything went so bad all of
> >a sudden, but she, of coarse, won't be in a position to do anything about it
> >(like tell him how she feels) 'cause she thinks that Mulder doesn't share the
> >same feelings. UST city. Or it could be the other way around with Mulder
> >getting the shaft. E-mail me your thoughts on this directly at
> >wocket...@hotmail.com...Thanks...Kim
> >
>
> Although I've styled myself a Shipper of Necessity rather than a
> Shipper of Desire, I must admit that the scenario you describe makes
> me somewhat ... queasy. Still, it just does not seem credible. After
> "Redux II," in which Scully's devotion was more apparent than ever,
> and Mulder practically shouted out "I love you!" with eyeball
> semaphore, an abrupt about-face like that sketched in your comment
> would defy explanation. In fact, it would constitute the very sort of
> inexplicable, sensationalized, soap-operatic development that the
> anti-shippers always have proclaimed would be the ruination of the
> show (only from the opposite direction, of course).
>
> On the other hand, if indeed a "jaw dropper" is in the works, I would
> not be surprised to see one of the agents announce his/her resignation
> from the FBI, or departure from the X-Files case load. I think it
> would a natural move for Scully at this point -- she's finally got her
> health back, and certainly has no need to continue dancing with death
> on the job. She should go back to Quantico, or perhaps get a position
> at a medical school, teaching pathology. Severing her professional
> relationship with Mulder certainly does not have to mean ending her
> personal relationship with him; in fact, it might be just the tactic
> to combat his placid inertia.
>
Alan M. Hurshman
Coleen Sullivan-Baier (giz...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Despite the folks who hated her on sight in "Herrenvolk", because
: she was beautiful and blond,
There were many who hated her before she first showed up.
Can't have a beautiful blonde near MulderMan! I've always
wondered if that reaction scared the writers away from
using her or giving the character the profile Deep Throat
or X had had.
: Back to the point, I think there was real POTENTIAL there for
: Marita, but the writers really didn't know what to do with her.
: Weather this be because she IS a "her", or that they are just
: "mysterious informant"-ed out remains to be seen.
I think the character was just not well defined in the beginning
so, having no explicit role, has fallen between the cracks.
--
Alan Hurshman
THE SPA, X-Ville
dull,dishwater GABAL To Err is Human, To MOOO Bovine.
Halifax, Nova Scotia
724138
laura capozzola <laur...@erols.com> wrote in article
<348069...@erols.com>...
> 724138 wrote:
>
> > -laura..
>
> Dear 724138 Laura -
>
> Remember you are not a number. You are a free woman. They can not
> fold, spindle or mutilate you....When did the start giving us
> Laura clones Model Numbers??? ;-D
Right after they realized that they've been overproducing us for the last
20 years as a result of unimaginative baby-book authors. Man.. you'd think
they could be a little be more creative, eh?
> -The Other Laura-
-laura.. who, upon finding herself in a class with two Other Lauras,
momentarily contemplated changing her name to Marvin..
Oh.. wait.. we've gotta relate this to X-files SOMEHOW, or those nasty
ON-TOPIC police will apprehend us Lauras.
Ok, how's this - has there EVER been a Laura in the X-files? I believe the
name has only been uttered once but only referring to someone we never see
on screen.
RSharma007
Hey Laura and Laura and the other Laura and that Laura...
>Ok, how's this - has there EVER been a Laura in the X-files? I believe the
>name has only been uttered once but only referring to someone we never see
>on screen.
This is true. There has of course been a "Ruby" on the X-files. One of my
personal hobbies is rewinding my tape of Conduit and just hearing Mulder say my
name..over and over again..Ruuubbyy
Ruby:)
I LOVE IT when DD says my name with that slow, sexy drawl of
his....Ruuuubbyyy.....
hehehe!!
p.s. Could you all imagine the uproar on this newsgroup if they had a character
named Gizzie??!!! :):):)
Coleen Sullivan-Baier
In <348059C9...@mediasoft.net> "R. Scott Carr"
<Car...@mediasoft.net> writes:
>
>My point in citing these examples is that the horse is out of the
>barn, in terms of the M-S romance.
...and now, the horse wants to get into the OTHER stable.....
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXgizzieXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
(who had to make a smart-ass crack, coz she's overwhelmed by the
insight of this post.....)
laura capozzola
724138 wrote:
>
> laura capozzola <laur...@erols.com> wrote in article
> <348069...@erols.com>...
> > 724138 wrote:
> >
> > > -laura..
> >
> > Dear 724138 Laura -
> >
> > Remember you are not a number. You are a free woman. They can not
> > fold, spindle or mutilate you....When did the start giving us
> > Laura clones Model Numbers??? ;-D
>
> Right after they realized that they've been overproducing us for the last
> 20 years as a result of unimaginative baby-book authors. Man.. you'd think
> they could be a little be more creative, eh?
>
> > -The Other Laura-
>
> -laura.. who, upon finding herself in a class with two Other Lauras,
> momentarily contemplated changing her name to Marvin..
>
> Oh.. wait.. we've gotta relate this to X-files SOMEHOW, or those nasty
> ON-TOPIC police will apprehend us Lauras.
>
> name has only been uttered once but only referring to someone we never see
> on screen.
Welllll, I truly believe they are saving it for February sweeps when
this new and wonderfully wicked intelligent charming CC-loving brand new
character, Doctor Laura Something-or-Other-With-An-Italian-Name,
discovers the way to regrow Krycek's arm, at which point he bats his
eyelashes at her and all UST flies out the window as The X-Files gets
its first "Mature Audience" TV rating...right there in the Spotnitz
Sanitarium.
Oh yeah, forgot one thing...and she doesn't sing Jeremiah was a
bullfrog, he was a good friend of mine, etc., either. ;-D
-Laura-
lynx mulderite
Joe Ramirez wrote:
>
> lynx mulderite <lyn...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >Sandy Swanson wrote:
> >> ...For example, this "delicious liason" we've been taunted
> >> with has yet to develop. Since "Herrenvolk," my money's been on a
> >> Mulder / Marita thing.
> >NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> >
> >> God, I hate this show.
> >If the Marita/Mulder thing goes down, so will I.
> >lynx
> >mulderite [please CC, keep him pure for Dana]
>
> From the Shipper of Necessity perspective <g>, a romantic or sexual
> relationship between Mulder and Marita, or between Mulder and any
> woman other than Scully, would constitute a *profound* betrayal by
> Mulder, of both Scully and his own emotions. Not adultery per se, but
> something similar, and just as devastating. The Mulder of the
> midpoint of season 3 could still get away with idle flirtations ("War
> of the Coprophages," "Syzygy") because it was still possible (even if
> not very realistic) for both Mulder and Scully to affirm to themselves
> that their own personal relationship was "merely" a close friendship.
> After "Pusher," "Never Again," "Memento Mori," and especially "Redux
> II," such affirmations are no longer possible. I believe that both
> Mulder and Scully now realize that they are in love with each other;
> only fear and habit have prevented them from openly acknowledging that
> reality. But despite the conspiracy of silence, they both *know*.
> Being too frightened and/or immature to take the obvious next step is
> no excuse for Mulder to stray, as it were. If he does, his character
> will bear a black mark that will make him offensive to both Scully and
> many viewers.
>
> Joe Ramirez
Thanks, Joe. You've put it *just* right. Their romantic involvement with
others would be completely out of context with the show as it has
evolved. On the other hand (too many hands - I must be an octopus, but a
dull,octopus) is there a possibility of a(nother) sex-without-romance
thing (but only a one nightstand) for Mulder, because he is reluctant to
commit to a romantic/sexual relationship with Scully? (I would hate it,
of course) Or does his adult-video/phonesex-line habit preclude this? I
agree that it would be a black mark on him - and would devastate Scully
- but would it be out of character? ooooo, why am I asking this? It's
like picking a scab. I should have just left it back there 10 lines ago
- agreeing with your whole post.
lynx
mulderite
lynx mulderite
Coleen Sullivan-Baier wrote:
>
> In <347B38...@erols.com> lynx mulderite <lyn...@erols.com> writes:
> >
>
> >If the Marita/Mulder thing goes down, so will I.
>
> phraseology amidst this group of perverts......
>
> XXXXXXXXXXXXXgizzieXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> (not *me* of course)
Yeah, I just reread that after returning from my Thanksgiving trip over
the river and through the woods - and I says to myself, "Self,
WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!!!!!?????
On the other hand, I like to think I'm a pervert in good standing in
this group.
lynx
mulderite
Magn0lia
724138 <724...@ican.net> wrote:
> Something's brewing, folks, and it's not ice tea.
"If there's ice tea in that bag ..."
:-)
--
Magn0lia <magd...@pedantic.com> <http://www.pedantic.com/>
GeoRed
In article <19971129205...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, grav...@aol.com
(GravesPA2) writes:
>I'll agree that it's possible that Mulder lied--and that Scully will be
>upset. But if so, he didn't lie to cover his own sins, and I believe Scully
>will take that into consideration. Is it really impossible to forgive
>someone who loves you enough to try to protect you, even if he makes the
>wrong choices?
If she is the adult that we all believe her to be, she will be pissed for a
little while and then realize that not only did Mulder not know for certain
that what the Kurts were telling him was true but that he really just didn't
know *how* to tell her. I think it is very possible that he *did* tell her and
we just don't know about it....in much the same way that we don't know for sure
how he got out of murder charges in Redux II.
Heidi
::::::::with head in hands, rocking slowly::::::::::
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter."
Joe Ramirez
lynx mulderite <lyn...@erols.com> wrote:
>Joe Ramirez wrote:
[deleted]
>
>Thanks, Joe. You've put it *just* right. Their romantic involvement with
>others would be completely out of context with the show as it has
>evolved. On the other hand (too many hands - I must be an octopus, but a
>dull,octopus) is there a possibility of a(nother) sex-without-romance
>thing (but only a one nightstand) for Mulder, because he is reluctant to
>commit to a romantic/sexual relationship with Scully? (I would hate it,
>of course) Or does his adult-video/phonesex-line habit preclude this? I
>agree that it would be a black mark on him - and would devastate Scully
>- but would it be out of character? ooooo, why am I asking this? It's
>like picking a scab. I should have just left it back there 10 lines ago
>- agreeing with your whole post.
>lynx
>mulderite
All happy shippers are alike, but every unhappy shipper is unhappy in
her/his own way. The weed of speculation bears bitter fruit! As you
say, better to silence your imagination about potential sins of the
Mulder and just agree with everything I write. <g>
Joe Ramirez
lynx mulderite
Joe Ramirez wrote:
And that would be Joe Tolstoy-Ramirez? Right again, oh Leader of the
Shippers of Necessity - I should have left well enough alone.
The sins of The Mulder are sins of omission [or possibly emission :-)]
not commission.
I should have known this, being
lynx
mulderite
Joe Ramirez
lynx mulderite <lyn...@erols.com> wrote:
I was Tolstoy in a past life that I had forgotten until now.
(Cancerman was Rasputin.) Now that I have remembered it, it's time to
take out the trash I left sitting in the corner of my garret.
>
>The sins of The Mulder are sins of omission [or possibly emission :-)]
>not commission.
>
>I should have known this, being
>lynx
>mulderite
Er, if you don't mind, I think I'll gracelessly bow out of any further
discussion of unsavory peccadilloes. Just let me know when the Mulder
has returned to Mother Russia and all that is holy.
Joe Ramirez
Pamela T. Pon
Alan M. Hurshman <Alan...@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:
>Coleen Sullivan-Baier (giz...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: Despite the folks who hated her on sight in "Herrenvolk", because
>: she was beautiful and blond,
>
>There were many who hated her before she first showed up.
>Can't have a beautiful blonde near MulderMan! I've always
>wondered if that reaction scared the writers away from
>using her or giving the character the profile Deep Throat or X had had.
If it had scared the writers away from using her, she wouldn't have become
a recurring character (or rather, remained one, since they obviously
intended her as such from the start.) In all the magazine interviews I've
read in which Marita was mentioned, the writers (eg. Spotnitz) and Holden
seem to be under the impression that Marita is a popular character with
much potential. Perhaps they get that impression from fan reactions such
as those of the X-POSE writers who voted Marita the *third* sexiest XF
character of all time -- *over* Krycek (4th) and Skinner (6th)!!!!!!
Given the fact that 5th place went to Bambi Berenbaum, I can't
help but conclude that the results may in part be due to a possibly high
male/female ratio among the staff (it's not clear who exactly made these
choices), or to a desire to appeal equally to male as well as female
readers by making sure there were *exactly* 10 of each gender on the list,
carefully ranked in interchanging order. (They were so desperate to find
enough sexy female characters that they even included the *tattoo*!)
Moreover, several of the male guest characters listed (in lieu of
far more intriguing recurring characters like CSM or Pendrell) were those
whom I've never heard of *anyone* finding attractive: Virgil Incanto,
Eladio Buentes -- both of them listed before X, even! -- Pierre Bauvais,
and Augustus Cole. (I like Tony Todd, and he was wonderful as the older
Jake Sisko on DS9's "The Visitor" -- but the 10th sexiest male character
in the history of XF?? I don't think so.) Further indication that the
choices were not made by those familiar with what female X-Philes *really*
like (or gay male Philes, for that matter).
However, although I've yet to met a Phile who would agree with this
list, its very existence seems to indicate that there are probably other
Phile demographic groups out there who might. Groups I tend not to come
in contact with -- such as Males aged 18-25, who would no doubt be more
appreciative of Marita than other gender/age groups -- but who figure
heavily among X-POSE's readership, in other forums I'm not familiar with,
in the general viewing audience, and in the "Pls Send Me Naked Scully PiXX"
crowd. Since 1013 no doubt have their fingers on the pulse of these other
demos as well as on the enlightened feminist intellectuals of a.t.xf, ;-)
there may very well be a large "Marita's HOTTT!!!" contingent whose
existence has helped convince some at 1013 that she is a wildly popular
character ripe for a delicious liaison.
I think that some of them *are* willing to use her, but that her
character has been so poorly thought-out (and acted, imho ;-) from the
start that they've found it difficult to do much. Plus, the writers who
are best at characterizing (eg. Vince) have not written for her at all.
With only Gordon & Spotnitz trying to redeem her, she ended up getting
shoehorned into Action!Episodes ("Tunguska," "Zero Sum") and Wannabe
Action!Eps ("Unrequited" & whatever the heck "Teliko" was meant to be)
as an awkward, unnecessary, distracting plot device (or even a detour)
in scripts that were story-driven to begin with -- a situation hardly
conducive to character development.
>: Back to the point, I think there was real POTENTIAL there for
>: Marita, but the writers really didn't know what to do with her.
>: Weather this be because she IS a "her", or that they are just
>: "mysterious informant"-ed out remains to be seen.
If Vince had taken an interest in her, or if CC had continued to write for
her, she might have grown a little. As it is, CC seems to have left her
in the care of Spotnitz & Gordon -- I'm guessing she was mainly Spotnitz'
creation -- and they weren't able to pull off what Vince did with Holly;
or M&W with the Lone Gunmen, Ma & Pa Scully, etc.; or everyone with X.
*And*, Laurie Holden wasn't able to make up for the writing by
taking over and making Marita compelling in spite of it -- as WBD did for
CSM, despite having *no lines*; and as MP, Brendan Beiser, Julia Arkos,
Braidwood, Haglund, & Harwood were able to do for their characters in what
were supposed to be small one-time roles, which helped bring them back by
popular demand. (I'm assuming Margaret, Bill Sr., & X were always meant
to be long-term.) A better actress *could* have done more, even with the
same poor writing! Off-hand, from memory, I could name at least 40-50 US,
UK, & Australian actresses who could have done far more with far less --
and still have met any reasonable criteria for attractiveness
(provided Marita did not necessarily have to look younger than Mulder).
I think that both the actress and her writers (Spotnitz & Gordon)
are to blame -- and CC, for not putting a stop to it as soon as it became
obvious that the character was *not* working out (which for me would have
been Holden's acting in "Herrenvolk" or Gordon's writing in "Teliko").
>I think the character was just not well defined in the beginning
>so, having no explicit role, has fallen between the cracks.
Fine with me >;-)
* please do not email * please POST replies *