Was That An Empty Cakset?
Dennis Ferguson
JerNels wrote in message <19971215032...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>Remember what happens to aliens, when they die on X-Files? They dissolve
into
>a pile of sand/powder. Aha!
I thought the Goo Guys melted into an icky green mess... I'm not an X-Phile,
though, so I'll defer to someone else's greater knowledge.
My impression was that the Bad Guys stole the body and weighted the coffin,
for some reason leaving behind the cross. It seems meant to be a
counterpoint to Scully's line to Mulder about there being evidence left by
the Bad Guys.
Of course, Mulder -does- still have that vial of lime jello mix, right?
Dennis
----
df...@erols.com (Erol's Internet)
dfe...@gl.umbc.edu (UMBC)
Jay
Garrett NY wrote in message
<19971215033...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>So if I am to get this right . . . You're telling me that was a pile of
sand in
>the coffin that the cross was resting on?
Yup...which links back nicely to the opening image before the opening
credits :)
Karen Gebhardt
Garrett NY wrote:
>
> Spolier alert
> 10 -
> 9 -
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> 7 -
> 6 -
> 5 -
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>
> When Dana opened Emily's coffin, she removed the cross she had given Emily. The
> cross seemed to be sitting ontop of a blanket - but there certainly didn't seem
> to be a body under that blanket!
>
> And wouldn't the child be wearing the cross? Thatswould be the proper custom .
> . . putting the cross on the child as she enters the hearafter. It just
> doen'st make sense to take the cross off!
>
> So was the coffin empty?
>
> eastvillage
It looked like sand to me. I don't really understand where that came
from. My first thought was that Emily had disintegrated like all the
other hybrids, but they all turned into green goo, not sand. I thought
Scully was going to look for answers in the girls body when she said
they had evidence, maybe have an autopy done or something.
Michael Miller
I thought the point was that Emily had been cremated (unbeknownst to M &
S) to hide the evidence her body contained...
Peace,
Michae
sharon cullars
Regarding the "goo" theory, maybe Emily didn't turn to goo because she
was half human. But then there is the supposition that the aliens came
and took her body and left sand in it for weight, so that there would be
no evidence. After all, they seemed to be very thorough in getting rid
of the other evidence. It would have been sloppy just to let Emily's
body be buried where it could be later exhumed and tested .
see my poem page at http://www.inergy.com/scullars/welcome.htm
Joe K
Garrett NY wrote in message
<19971215032...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>Spolier alert
>10 -
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>4 -
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>2-
>1-
>
>When Dana opened Emily's coffin, she removed the cross she had given Emily.
The
>cross seemed to be sitting ontop of a blanket - but there certainly didn't
seem
>to be a body under that blanket!
>
>And wouldn't the child be wearing the cross? Thatswould be the proper
custom .
>. . putting the cross on the child as she enters the hearafter. It just
>doen'st make sense to take the cross off!
>
>So was the coffin empty?
>
Well yes and no. From where I sat it appeared that the
coffin was not empty. However the only thing remaining of
poor Emily was a large pile of ashes (and of course the
cross necklace). I guess Emily's body decomposed at
an accelerated rate. I do understand you mistaking the
ashes for a blanket. At first look I thought it was a burlap
sack of somekind. But on closer inspection I believe it
to be mere ashes.
Garrett NY
Spolier alert
10 -
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When Dana opened Emily's coffin, she removed the cross she had given Emily. The
cross seemed to be sitting ontop of a blanket - but there certainly didn't seem
to be a body under that blanket!
And wouldn't the child be wearing the cross? Thatswould be the proper custom .
. . putting the cross on the child as she enters the hearafter. It just
doen'st make sense to take the cross off!
So was the coffin empty?
eastvillage
JerNels
Garrett NY
jedimaster
On 15 Dec 1997 03:42:42 GMT, mwli...@mindspring.com wrote:
I mentioned last week that I think the girl will be involved in the
movie somehow and I still believe that based on the last few minutes
of tonight's episode.
>
>I'd like to believe that who or whatever took that child left behind the cross
>for Scully. She needs it more than the child.
>
>Martha
>*******************************************************
>VP for Propaganda http://www.frohike.org
>
>"Welcome to the dark side." - Frohike
>*******************************************************
>
>
====================================================
"Maybe if it rains sleeping bags, you'll get lucky." - Scully in 'Detours'
====================================================
Garrett NY
Garrett NY wrote in message
>So if I am to get this right . . . You're telling me that was a pile of
sand in
>the coffin that the cross was resting on?
Jay wrote:
Yup...which links back nicely to the opening image before the opening
credits :)
REPLY
Garrett replied:
"well your reply certainly doesn't answer anything"
Jen
Karen Gebhardt <kgeb...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote in article
<3494B1...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
> Garrett NY wrote:
> >
> > Spolier alert
> > 10 -
> > 9 -
> > 8 -
> > 7 -
> > 6 -
> > 5 -
> > 4 -
> > 3-
> > 2-
> > 1-
> >
SNIP
> It looked like sand to me. I don't really understand where that came
> from. My first thought was that Emily had disintegrated like all the
> other hybrids, but they all turned into green goo, not sand. I thought
> Scully was going to look for answers in the girls body when she said
> they had evidence, maybe have an autopy done or something.
The burlap in the coffin made me think that Emily had been taken and a
sandbag put in her place.
Once again we are left without a body. Is Emily really dead? Probably
not. And even if she is, I imagine there is another Emily out there to
take her place.
I'm sure I 'm not the only one who noticed a perceptibly guilty look come
over Mulder's face as Scully went to open the casket. Did Mulder steal
Emily to use the green goo on her? It would be one way to draw out the
Consortium. I hope Mulder is not capable of doing such a thing to Scully
or of using a little girl for a science fair project. But the look on his
face really makes me wonder what really happened.
Jen
>
XXScullyXX
a
spoiling
we
will
go,
a
spoiling
we
will
go...
Yadda yadda yadda...
Jen, in her wisest wisdom said: <g>
>The burlap in the coffin made me think that Emily had been taken and a
>sandbag put in her place.
>
>Once again we are left without a body. Is Emily really dead? Probably
>not. And even if she is, I imagine there is another Emily out there to
>take her place.
>
>I'm sure I 'm not the only one who noticed a perceptibly guilty look come
>over Mulder's face as Scully went to open the casket. Did Mulder steal
>Emily to use the green goo on her? It would be one way to draw out the
>Consortium. I hope Mulder is not capable of doing such a thing to Scully
>or of using a little girl for a science fair project. But the look on his
>face really makes me wonder what really happened.
Jen! Was that guilt that you saw, really? I saw grief beyond all grief.
Interpreted to me as, "Gosh, I really drug her into this pit of despair."
Mayhaps he took the body somewhere to be examined, or(rather) maybe he mopped
up the green goo to be examined. Anyway, I really do think that he is not
capable of using the little girl as "fun with science" material, especially
after all the hurt he has gone through with his sister, Samantha.
of course, at this point it's all opinions... right?
Michelle
(knew I'd run into you here sooner or later, Jen-Jen)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The hooves of the horses! -Oh! witching and sweet
Is the music earth steals from the iron-shod feet;
No whisper of lover, no trilling of bird,
Can stir me as the hooves of the horses
have stirred." (W.H. Ogilvie)
lynx mulderite
Jen wrote:
>
> Karen Gebhardt <kgeb...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote in article
> <3494B1...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
> > Garrett NY wrote:
> > >
> > > Spolier alert
> > > 10 -
> > > 9 -
> > > 8 -
> > > 7 -
> > > 6 -
> > > 5 -
> > > 4 -
> > > 3-
> > > 2-
> > > 1-
> > >
> SNIP
>
> > It looked like sand to me. I don't really understand where that came
> > from. My first thought was that Emily had disintegrated like all the
> > other hybrids, but they all turned into green goo, not sand. I thought
> > Scully was going to look for answers in the girls body when she said
> > they had evidence, maybe have an autopy done or something.
>
> sandbag put in her place.
>
> Once again we are left without a body. Is Emily really dead? Probably
> not. And even if she is, I imagine there is another Emily out there to
> take her place.
>
> I'm sure I 'm not the only one who noticed a perceptibly guilty look come
> over Mulder's face as Scully went to open the casket. Did Mulder steal
> Emily to use the green goo on her? It would be one way to draw out the
> Consortium. I hope Mulder is not capable of doing such a thing to Scully
> or of using a little girl for a science fair project. But the look on his
> face really makes me wonder what really happened.
>
> Jen
--
lynx
mulderite
"I don't wanna wrestle"
LiveLetDie
"Jen" <jenn...@ucr.campus.mci.net> wrote:
>
>Karen Gebhardt <kgeb...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote in article
><3494B1...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
>> Garrett NY wrote:
>> >
>> > Spolier alert
>> > 10 -
>> > 9 -
>> > 8 -
>> > 7 -
>> > 6 -
>> > 5 -
>> > 4 -
>> > 3-
>> > 2-
>> > 1-
>> >
>SNIP
>
>
>I'm sure I 'm not the only one who noticed a perceptibly guilty look come
>over Mulder's face as Scully went to open the casket. Did Mulder steal
>Emily to use the green goo on her? It would be one way to draw out the
>Consortium. I hope Mulder is not capable of doing such a thing to Scully
>or of using a little girl for a science fair project. But the look on his
>face really makes me wonder what really happened.
>
>Jen
>>
My interpetation was that Mulder knew the coffin was empty. The look
on his face might have been just squeamishness about seeing the body
(doesn't he have a history of flinching at autopsies and such?) but I
saw it more as knowing Scully was about to be very upset. I
interpreted the coffins content to be burlap bags of sand, one of
which had spilled, placed there to duplicate the weight of the body.
I didn't think it was ashes - Even if the body was cremated prior to
the funeral, the ashes would be in a small box or urn, not a burlap
bag.
The fact that the necklace was there led me to believe that the body
had been taken by someone who cared about the child, someone who felt
it fitting to at least leave something of Emily in that casket as a
substitute for her body not being there. That reinforced my idea that
Mulder had arranged the removal of the body.
My thought was that Mulder felt Emily's body was critical evidence.
Kowing that Scully had made the decision that the best way to help her
child was to let her die, I think he knew that she would eventually
also decide on an autopsy and preservation of the body for evidence
but didn't want to push for that while Scully was so devastated.
Rather than wait and hope she would come to that conclusion before the
burial, he went ahead with the swap.
Diane
La..Dee..Da..
"Nick Pedicini" <jny...@netcom.com> wrote:
>I'd really hate to be one of the writers. You go through all
>the trouble of building that initial dream sequence with its
>image of Scully dissolving into dust, you hit the religious
>angle again and again ("From dust thou art and to dust thou
>shall return") and then when the payoff comes--Scully opens
>the casket and finds--well, not *dust* per se but something
>akin to but not exactly sand--bringing the image full circle
>and people are off concocting wild theories about stolen
>bodies and such.
>
>It was a simple and elegant ending.
>
>NJP
THANK YOU Nick! I've been getting VERY frustrated reading
through some of the posts and it makes me happy that at
least one person seems to have seen what I did.
"It begins where it ends.. in nothingness"
...ashes to ashes... dust to dust
And don't even get me started on the line:
"Who were the men who would create a life whose only
hope is to die?"
This could send me into at least a few hours worth of
theological debate.
- La..
Who seems to be very alone in her admiration for this episode.
____________________________ _ _ _________________________
\ /
La..Dee..Da.. ~= OBSSEr and X-PHILE XVi...@HoTMaiL.com
____________________________ _/ \_ _________________________
SCtru...@webtv.net
I think that Mulder knew what Scully would find in the casket when she
opened it. I really don't think that he took Emily. I also think that
Emily is dead because you saw Scully laying beside her in the hospital.
Mulder knew what they were dealing with. He knew about someone taking
Scullys ova out. He was justing trying to protect her in my opinion.
dschleef
La..Dee..Da.. wrote:
>
> "Nick Pedicini" <jny...@netcom.com> wrote:
> >I'd really hate to be one of the writers. You go through all
> >the trouble of building that initial dream sequence with its
> >image of Scully dissolving into dust, you hit the religious
> >angle again and again ("From dust thou art and to dust thou
> >shall return") and then when the payoff comes--Scully opens
> >the casket and finds--well, not *dust* per se but something
> >akin to but not exactly sand--bringing the image full circle
> >and people are off concocting wild theories about stolen
> >bodies and such.
> >
> >It was a simple and elegant ending.
> >
> >NJP
>
> THANK YOU Nick! I've been getting VERY frustrated reading
> through some of the posts and it makes me happy that at
> least one person seems to have seen what I did.
>
> "It begins where it ends.. in nothingness"
>
> ...ashes to ashes... dust to dust
That's what I thought too - beautiful imagery, and I appreciated it all
the more when after it ended I went right back and watched the teaser
again. I loved the shot of her face dissolving. Before coming to the
newsgroup, I thought the child had been cremated and those were her ashes
(that doesn't strike me as the way cremation works, though, so I was
still confused). I thought Scully's surprise was at seeing the cross,
which one would assume would burn up with the ashes, but which had
somehow miraculously survived the fire to be returned to Scully. Imagine
my surprise to see all this speculation about sand and bodies. I would
really like to know how CC et al meant for this to be interpreted.
(snip)
> Who seems to be very alone in her admiration for this episode.
Well, I liked it quite a bit - though not as much as the rest of the
season so far -- until I came to the newsgroup.
Debra
Dennis Ferguson
Nick Pedicini wrote in message <6734l6$k...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>...
>
>It was a simple and elegant ending.
And it would have worked better if it hadn't been yanked out of thin air --
which seems to be where the writers get most of their plot twists. Once
again, the writers put pathos before good storytelling.
The opening dream sequence was nice, and it looked good, but it didn't make
sense. Scully might feel alone, but we sure haven't seen it. One could
make a case about her not talking to Mulder when she called him last week,
but this week he's hopped a plane to San Diego County to back her up. Then
there's Detective Kresge helping out. Even her family, while not 100%
supportive, has been trying to help. The start of the thematic circle is
built upon a weak foundation.
The payoff isn't any better. So somewhere between her death and funeral,
the bad guys grabbed her. They're shapeshifters, so I'll buy it. But why
leave behind the cross? No reason, except that it makes a neat companion
image to the dream sequence.
Personally, I think it's sloppy writing. Sometimes, the writers -are- able
to pull off some impressive moments, but far too often it falls flat. Most
of their attempts here did just that.
Sheila Hatami
LiveLetDie wrote:
>
<snip-snip-asnip-snip>
> My interpetation was that Mulder knew the coffin was empty. The look
> on his face might have been just squeamishness about seeing the body
> (doesn't he have a history of flinching at autopsies and such?) but I
> saw it more as knowing Scully was about to be very upset. I
> interpreted the coffins content to be burlap bags of sand, one of
> which had spilled, placed there to duplicate the weight of the body.
> I didn't think it was ashes - Even if the body was cremated prior to
> the funeral, the ashes would be in a small box or urn, not a burlap
> bag.
>
> The fact that the necklace was there led me to believe that the body
> had been taken by someone who cared about the child, someone who felt
> it fitting to at least leave something of Emily in that casket as a
> substitute for her body not being there. That reinforced my idea that
> Mulder had arranged the removal of the body.
>
> My thought was that Mulder felt Emily's body was critical evidence.
> Kowing that Scully had made the decision that the best way to help her
> child was to let her die, I think he knew that she would eventually
> also decide on an autopsy and preservation of the body for evidence
> but didn't want to push for that while Scully was so devastated.
> Rather than wait and hope she would come to that conclusion before the
> burial, he went ahead with the swap.
>
> Diane
I dunno about this 'body swap' theory with Mulder. IMHO, I think that
if any swapping went on, it was by the other shape-shifters. I don't
know that Mulder knew the body wouldn't be there. I think he was not
surprised-- I know I wasn't-- but I think he looked away out of
squeamishness and out of respect for Scully. Sand was put in the casket
to replicate the weight of a body. The cross was left because they
didn't need it; it never belonged to Emily. Caring had nothing to do
with it. It would be just another thing to destroy. Also, it's a good
way of saying that Scully's faith could not protect that little girl,
not matter how much DNA she shared with her. I have a feeling that
Emily may not be done, as well. She is not really human... perhaps she
can be resurrected.
At first, I thought the whole sand storm thing was odd, but the dream
fits in with the dreams of Christmas Carol, and the revelations that
Dana has been receiving thru the phone (also done by Emily at the Center
-- I think that the thesis on the psychic tendencies shared by the
Scullys has some merit to it).
The fade that CC did with Scully and Emily to Mary and Jesus in the
stained glass only served to emphasize the idea of a Saint Scully -- of
this crazy conception/motherhood deal, and the question of faith. Plus,
for Scully to go to the casket looking for scientific evidence to only
find dust and her cross, representing a faith that she's not sure she
has -- she is obvoiusly in contemplation of that point at the close. I
think the whole beginning-with-dust-and-ending-with-dust thing played
out in the episode has great significance for Scully, and that it sends
out a message: beyond aliens and the whole conspiracy theory, all we are
is dust -- a reminder of our human heritage, or perhaps the part of
Scully that was Emily.
And again I will ask, because I don't know and am curious -- what faith
does Mulder profess? Was beliefs was he raised with?
SSH
--
*Now* I know what Mr. Potato Head looks like!
Jay
>>>So if I am to get this right . . . You're telling me that was a pile of
sand in
>>>the coffin that the cross was resting on?
>>Yup...which links back nicely to the opening image before the opening
>>credits :)
>"well your reply certainly doesn't answer anything"
It answered the question that was asked, what else was it supposed to do?
Grassy Knoll
I don't know what a cakset is. But, the casket had ashes in it.
--
"The public wants what the public gets, but I don't want what society's
got" - Paul Weller
ARTHUR HAYWARD
Yes it was an empty casket and you all know how they love to bring back
ongoing stories so this gives them one more to use later i the season.
Remeber how long ago Scully and those women met and revealed their
abuductions?
24
Things I've read from others (forgive me I don't remember who) along with my
own thoughts:
o The sand in the casket was placed there because the body was cremated.
o The sand is for weight (helps the pallbearers in some manner, I presume).
o The cross was placed in the casket for the service for religious perposes as
a representation of Emily, probably by Scully, knowing that she would keep it
to remember Emily by (even though it was hers in the first place). [does that
make sense??]
o The cremation was to protect others. Would you really want to take the
chance that a funeral director would do some embalming thing and die from toxic
green goo fumes?
o We have never seen a morph/clone/drone turn into sand instead of green
bubbling slime. (and why start now?)
o Wouldn't Scully's or Muder's reaction to Emily's missing body have been more
dramatic, considering?
- Dallas
jodi
24 wrote:
>
> Things I've read from others (forgive me I don't remember who) along with my
> own thoughts:
>
> o The sand in the casket was placed there because the body was cremated.
>
> o The sand is for weight (helps the pallbearers in some manner, I presume).
>
> o The cross was placed in the casket for the service for religious perposes as
> a representation of Emily, probably by Scully, knowing that she would keep it
> to remember Emily by (even though it was hers in the first place). [does that
> make sense??]
>
> o The cremation was to protect others. Would you really want to take the
> chance that a funeral director would do some embalming thing and die from toxic
> green goo fumes?
>
> o We have never seen a morph/clone/drone turn into sand instead of green
> bubbling slime. (and why start now?)
>
> o Wouldn't Scully's or Muder's reaction to Emily's missing body have been more
> dramatic, considering?
>
> - Dallas
I was thinking that "someone" stole the body, and left the sand in the
casket to weight it down, but left the necklace as kind of slap in the
face to Scully. (Doesn't this kind of have the signature of Smoking
Man?) Why should Scully and Mulder have reacted drastically to this?
Every time they discover a piece of this whole conspiracy the evidence
is removed/destroyed before they can use it. It just figures. It would
be unintelligent for them to be truely surprised.
jodi
Philip Lacroix
I think that there are several connections that we can make from the
bodiless casket.
I don't know what to conclude as fact, if any of these hypothesis can
indeed be called such.
Tell me what you think.
1. Mulder didn't seem too surprised when the casket didn't consist of
Emily's corpse.
Does that mean that he arranged for the removal of the body? I think
Emily is dead, but her
body would be useful for research. Keep in mind, Emily had a sickness,
and Mulder had the
treatment.
2. The alien bodies disintegrate when they are killed. Could this not
have happened to Emily.
The sand could have been placed there for Scully's sake, or that of
the funeral arrangers
who would question an overly light casket.
3. Can we not draw some connection to there being sand in the casket?
Sand is the obvious
choice to replace a body, but does it not draw a connection to the
opening scene? Scully in a
barren (as she is) wasteland with sand enveloping her from all
directions. The connection
between Scully and Emily having the same DNA. The sand in the casket
with the cross that
Scully previously gave to Emily.
Any thoughts?
PRPL
Benedict Chong
jodi <d...@erols.com> wrote:
%
%I was thinking that "someone" stole the body, and left the sand in
the
%casket to weight it down, but left the necklace as kind of slap in
the
%face to Scully. (Doesn't this kind of have the signature of Smoking
%Man?) Why should Scully and Mulder have reacted drastically to this?
%Every time they discover a piece of this whole conspiracy the
evidence
%is removed/destroyed before they can use it. It just figures. It
would
%be unintelligent for them to be truely surprised.
Notice that the chain was _broken_.
If the body turned to sand, the chain should still be whole.
Ben
Maagic
well lets see...she opened it up expecting to see Emily's dead body, but
instead only saw her necklace, so Yes I would say the coffin was empty.
by the way, why post spoiler space when you obviously claim that emily
died in your subject header?
Garrett NY wrote:
>
> Spolier alert
> 10 -
> 9 -
> 8 -
> 7 -
> 6 -
> 5 -
> 4 -
> 3-
> 2-
> 1-
>
Maagic
the only connection I could make was that Scully was running through a
desert in the opening and she found her necklace in the sand then also
Karen Gebhardt wrote:
>
> Garrett NY wrote:
> >
> > Spolier alert
> > 10 -
> > 9 -
> > 8 -
> > 7 -
> > 6 -
> > 5 -
> > 4 -
> > 3-
> > 2-
> > 1-
> >
> > When Dana opened Emily's coffin, she removed the cross she had given Emily. The
> > cross seemed to be sitting ontop of a blanket - but there certainly didn't seem
> > to be a body under that blanket!
> >
> > And wouldn't the child be wearing the cross? Thatswould be the proper custom .
> > . . putting the cross on the child as she enters the hearafter. It just
> > doen'st make sense to take the cross off!
> >
> > So was the coffin empty?
> >
> > eastvillage
Konrad Douglas Frye
>I was thinking that "someone" stole the body, and left the sand in the
>casket to weight it down, but left the necklace as kind of slap in the
>face to Scully. (Doesn't this kind of have the signature of Smoking
>Man?) Why should Scully and Mulder have reacted drastically to this?
>Every time they discover a piece of this whole conspiracy the evidence
>is removed/destroyed before they can use it. It just figures. It would
>be unintelligent for them to be truely surprised.
UNINTELLIGENT!?!
You're trying to tell me that Scully wouldn't regard it as a desecration
and react visably? Sure, fine, whatever. Emily was not just some DAT tape
to Scully.
Nobody stole the body. The sand in the coffin was an obvious tie in to
Scully's dream sequence at the beginning of the episode. Scully's
reaction made it *clear* that she knew there wouldn't be a body there. In
all likelyhood Emily was cremated.
-----
Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
Computer Engineering IV
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Life...is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless,
perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for". - Cancer Man -
"Keep going FBI woman" - Fox Mulder -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Konrad Douglas Frye
>I'd really hate to be one of the writers. You go through all the trouble of
>building that initial dream sequence with its image of Scully dissolving
>into dust, you hit the religious angle again and again ("From dust thou art
>and to dust thou shall return") and then when the payoff comes--Scully opens
>the casket and finds--well, not *dust* per se but something akin to but not
>exactly sand--bringing the image full circle and people are off concocting
>wild theories about stolen bodies and such.
>It was a simple and elegant ending.
Amen. The only problem I had with the initial dream sequence was that it
completely telegraphed the ending. It seems some people here just don't
understand the concept of cremation ;)
Carolin
On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, lynx mulderite wrote:
> Jen wrote:
> >
> > Karen Gebhardt <kgeb...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote in article
> > <3494B1...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
> > > Garrett NY wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Spolier alert
> > > > 10 -
> > > > 9 -
> > > > 8 -
> > > > 7 -
> > > > 6 -
> > > > 5 -
> > > > 4 -
> > > > 3-
> > > > 2-
> > > > 1-
> > > >
> > SNIP
> >
> >
> > I'm sure I 'm not the only one who noticed a perceptibly guilty look come
> > over Mulder's face as Scully went to open the casket. Did Mulder steal
> > Emily to use the green goo on her? It would be one way to draw out the
> > Consortium. I hope Mulder is not capable of doing such a thing to Scully
> > or of using a little girl for a science fair project. But the look on his
> > face really makes me wonder what really happened.
> >
> > Jen
> Oh man. That is a really scary take. I REALLY REALLY hope not.
>
> --
> lynx
> mulderite
> "I don't wanna wrestle"
>
>
I second you Lynn. It's kinda scary. At the beginning of the show, there
were only two people we knew we could trust, maybe not even two because
there was some concern as to Scully's agenda but overall we knew that they
were the ones we could trust. but now so much has happened and now, what,
we don't even trust Mulder? it's scary to think so...the conspiracy has
gotten so detailed. and Mulder not telling her stuff only makes it worse.
i for one, as a true Mulderite, still want to believe that he turned his
head as a measure of respect for Scully's loss. he wouldn't do that to
her...he couldnt'...how do you forgive something like that if he did? she
never could. it's just too scary a concept.
Carolin
GABAL, Mulderite, SHIPPER, CoS and overall good phile
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If speaking your mind makes you a
lesbian, then by the lord Harry, I'm a screaming,
flaming dyke who just happens to sleep with guys.
--Leigh Anne Vrabel (Luna lumen)
GABAL alt.tv.x-files
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nick Pedicini
I'd really hate to be one of the writers. You go through all the trouble of
building that initial dream sequence with its image of Scully dissolving
into dust, you hit the religious angle again and again ("From dust thou art
and to dust thou shall return") and then when the payoff comes--Scully opens
the casket and finds--well, not *dust* per se but something akin to but not
exactly sand--bringing the image full circle and people are off concocting
wild theories about stolen bodies and such.
It was a simple and elegant ending.
NJP
Jen
XXScullyXX <xxscu...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971215072...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> a
> spoiling
> we
> will
> go,
> a
> spoiling
> we
> will
> go...
> Yadda yadda yadda...
> Jen, in her wisest wisdom said: <g>
That's me. Wisest wisdom. Yep.
> Jen! Was that guilt that you saw, really? I saw grief beyond all grief.
Yep, GUILT. Guilt mingled with grief, the grief made deeper because he
knew Emily was gone, he knew where she was and he knew he was hurting
Scully AGAIN, for all that he professes to protect her.
> Interpreted to me as, "Gosh, I really drug her into this pit of despair."
The PIT of dessspppaaaaaaiiiiiiirrrrr...... <<cough>>
> Mayhaps he took the body somewhere to be examined, or(rather) maybe he
mopped
> up the green goo to be examined.
Exactly. Isn't that what I said? Mulder took the body and didn't get
Mommy's permission first. Kind of him, though, to leave the cross for
Scully. A sweet little memento.
>Anyway, I really do think that he is not
> capable of using the little girl as "fun with science" material,
especially
> after all the hurt he has gone through with his sister, Samantha.
Well, I don't REALLY think he'd play Frankenstein with Emily, but who knows
of what Mulder is capable. Can we really TRUST him? ;-D
> of course, at this point it's all opinions... right?
As always.
> Michelle (knew I'd run into you here sooner or later, Jen-Jen)
Come on back now, ya hear?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "The hooves of the horses! -Oh! witching and sweet
> Is the music earth steals from the iron-shod feet;
> No whisper of lover, no trilling of bird,
> Can stir me as the hooves of the horses
> have stirred." (W.H. Ogilvie)
>
Pretty sig.
Jen--
********************************************************
Her heroes were always children because they
believed everything could be fixed with scotch
tape.
*******************************************************
Jen
Nick Pedicini <jny...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<6734l6$k...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>...
I'd go with you on this one Nick, (and, truly, I am generally "with" you),
except that CC and crew have trained us XPhiles to "trust no one." We
don't believe our eyes and we can't accept anything at face value. Bodies
disappear, bees carry small pox, sisters show up and vanish again, parents
lie and everything is complex. In this context, theories about stolen
bodies are hardly wild!
>
> It was a simple and elegant ending.
Nothing is *EVER* simple on the X-Files! ;-)
Jen
>
> NJP
kj
> >The burlap in the coffin made me think that Emily had been taken and a
> >sandbag put in her place.
> >
> >Once again we are left without a body. Is Emily really dead? Probably
> >not. And even if she is, I imagine there is another Emily out there to
> >take her place.
> >
> >over Mulder's face as Scully went to open the casket. Did Mulder steal
> >Emily to use the green goo on her? It would be one way to draw out the
> >Consortium. I hope Mulder is not capable of doing such a thing to Scully
> >or of using a little girl for a science fair project. But the look on his
> >face really makes me wonder what really happened.
Mulder asked Scully if she could save Emily, would she? She said she
wouldn't because she wanted to spare Emily the suffering she went
through because the aliens were pursuing her. When he walked away from
that encounter in the hospital, he took the green vial out of his pocket
and considered it.
Mulder treated Emily with the contents of the vial, secreted Emily
away, and replaced her body with sand. Emily would not have been
cremated because the ashes would have been placed in an urn, not a
casket. The cross is a sign of the unknown that Scully herself is
pursuing.
Mr...@ibm.net**delete_to_reply**
The chain was BROKEN?!? Wow, I didn't see that. That could very well
point to a theft of the body.
Dallas
Benedict Chong wrote:
> jodi <d...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> %
> %I was thinking that "someone" stole the body, and left the sand in
> the
> %casket to weight it down, but left the necklace as kind of slap in
> the
> %face to Scully. (Doesn't this kind of have the signature of Smoking
> %Man?) Why should Scully and Mulder have reacted drastically to this?
> %Every time they discover a piece of this whole conspiracy the
> evidence
> %is removed/destroyed before they can use it. It just figures. It
> would
jodi
>
>
> You're trying to tell me that Scully wouldn't regard it as a desecration
> and react visably? Sure, fine, whatever. Emily was not just some DAT tape
> to Scully.
>
> Nobody stole the body. The sand in the coffin was an obvious tie in to
> Scully's dream sequence at the beginning of the episode. Scully's
> reaction made it *clear* that she knew there wouldn't be a body there. In
> all likelyhood Emily was cremated.
>
Okay, so maybe she had Emily cremated. I still don't understand a few
things, then. First, why would there be sand in the casket (that was
sand and not ashes)? Why would there be a casket? It's fine if the sand
is a tie-in to the dream, but why? Where does it come from?
The main reason I thought Scully didn't know Emily's body wasn't in the
casket was because she said something about how her body is the only
evidence they now have. It sure sounded to me like she was deciding to
allow the body to be investigated.
And if she knew, why on earth would she have opened the casket in the
first place?
It still looked to me like Scully was surprised. Not completely shocked,
though. I think she expected to see her daughter, opened the casket and
when she wasn't there, went into a sort of shock. She did react. She
stood there in stunned silence. But behind it there was a kind of
pre-knowledge.
Kirsten
I haven't read all the posts in this topic but I believe that Mulder has
Emily somewhere. The lone gunmen may have helped him. HE left the
cross in the casket because he knew how much it meant to Scully. He had
tremendous guilt for taking Emily so he left the cross to be buried in
her place. Remember how he NOTICED the cross around Emily's neck?
Kirsten
psy...@gulf.net
GeoRed
In article <6729kd$g30$1...@winter.news.erols.com>, "Dennis Ferguson"
<df...@erols.com> writes:
>I thought the Goo Guys melted into an icky green mess... I'm not an
>X-Phile, though, so I'll defer to someone else's greater knowledge.
>My
>impression was that the Bad Guys stole the body and weighted the coffin, for
>some reason leaving behind the cross. It seems meant to be a counterpoint to
>Scully's line to Mulder about there being evidence left by the Bad Guys.
>Of
>course, Mulder -does- still have that vial of lime jello mix, right?
This is my theory as well. They removed the body to remove the evidence. Why
the cross was still there.....who knows.
Heidi
::::::::with head in hands, rocking slowly::::::::::
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter."
GeoRed
In article <349aad97...@news.concentric.net>, jedi...@concentric.net
(jedimaster) writes:
>I mentioned last week that I think the girl will be involved in the movie
>somehow and I still believe that based on the last few minutes of tonight's
>episode.
That would disappoint me in that Scully *is* a medical doctor and would
certainly know when the child died. I also think that Scully would make *very*
sure that the child was dead. Now, if *another* child that is identical shows
up........
GeoRed
In article <01bd091f$da3cdd60$b7839bd0@uymfdlvk>, "Jen"
<jenn...@ucr.campus.mci.net> writes:
>I'm sure I 'm not the only one who noticed a perceptibly guilty look
>come over Mulder's face as Scully went to open the casket. Did Mulder
>steal Emily to use the green goo on her? It would be one way to draw out
>the Consortium. I hope Mulder is not capable of doing such a thing to
>Scully or of using a little girl for a science fair project. But the look on
>his face really makes me wonder what really happened.
Heavens no! That wasn't a guilty look. That was a look of pain. His best
friend/partner was going to open the coffin of her child that she had come to
love. He was anticipating her pain at seeing the childs body (again) and was
respecting her privacy.
ISAAC
In article <19971215033...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, garr...@aol.com (Garrett NY) writes:
>So if I am to get this right . . . You're telling me that was a pile of sand in
>the coffin that the cross was resting on?
It was Scully's dream from the beginning of the ep come full circle...remember,
she was walking in a weird dream desert, and at the end she picked up her cross
necklace from the sand. At the end of the ep, she reached into the coffin, and
there was a little bit of sand, and when she picked up her necklace there were
TWO CROSSES!!! WHOAA!!! also, if i remember correctly, when those alien clone
people die, they disintegrate rather quicly into a dusty or sandy substance.
altho on that I may be wrong.
isaac
ENTEC
I agree; I liked the episode and the ending.
I think that the pharmgen guys got her body but for some reason left the
cross. Emily was not cremated; the sand was to give the coffin some weight.
If she had been cremated, why the burlap sackcloth?
>
>> Who seems to be very alone in her admiration for this episode.
>
>Well, I liked it quite a bit - though not as much as the rest of the
>season so far -- until I came to the newsgroup.
>Debra
g...@visi.com
: people die, they disintegrate rather quicly into a dusty or sandy substance.
maybe i'm missing something but...
After: Dust and a cross
which should mean
Before: a naked body wearing a cross
If the dust is a disintegrated body, did it also dissolve her clothes or
was she buried naked?
The Mulder steals the body doesn't make too much sense to me - he'd have
to wait until after she died (Scully would be watching the entire time
before that, as would doctors), which would be too late for much. I also
don't think he'd expect sand - he'd expect cremation (it's happened
before) or a missing body (happens all the time), but to specifically
expect sand? I think he's just used to getting screwed
--
***************************************************************
Disclaimer: No wife, no horse, no mustache
www.visi.com/~gsi - really stupid web site
It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both
incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by
twelve dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper.
-- Rod Serling
GeoRed
In article <679c61$o23$1...@new-news.cc.brandeis.edu>,
st95...@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (ISAAC) writes:
>It was Scully's dream from the beginning of the ep come full
>circle...remember, she was walking in a weird dream desert, and at the end
>she picked up her cross necklace from the sand. At the end of the ep, she
>reached into the coffin, and there was a little bit of sand, and when she
>picked up her necklace there were TWO CROSSES!!! WHOAA!!! also, if i
>remember correctly, when those alien clone people die, they disintegrate
>rather quicly into a dusty or sandy substance. altho on that I may be
>wrong.
isaac
Also, for those who saw burlap, don't they pack sand in burlap bags (ie Sand
Bags) for helping to prevent flooding? So it makes sense that you would see
burlap and sand in the coffin. It makes no sense that they would cremate her
and then Scully would open the coffin. They were talking about evidence, she
opens the coffin, and suprise, the body (evidence) is gone.....as usual.
That's why there is no suprise...they lose evidence all the time.
Nameer Bassil Kirma
On 15 Dec 1997, XXScullyXX wrote:
> a
> spoiling
> we
> will
> go,
> a
> spoiling
> we
> will
> go...
> Yadda yadda yadda...
> Jen, in her wisest wisdom said: <g>
> >The burlap in the coffin made me think that Emily had been taken and a
> >sandbag put in her place.
> >
> >Once again we are left without a body. Is Emily really dead? Probably
> >not. And even if she is, I imagine there is another Emily out there to
> >take her place.
> >
> >I'm sure I 'm not the only one who noticed a perceptibly guilty look come
> >over Mulder's face as Scully went to open the casket. Did Mulder steal
> >Emily to use the green goo on her? It would be one way to draw out the
> >Consortium. I hope Mulder is not capable of doing such a thing to Scully
> >or of using a little girl for a science fair project. But the look on his
> >face really makes me wonder what really happened.>
Hadn't thought about that. But here is another possibility: the shape
shifters may have induced a death-like coma state. I guess Scully would
be less apt to look for a kidnapped dead Emily than a kidnapped living
Emily. I am not sure why they would leave the cross.
Regina S Heinicke
Well, I'm just going to throw in my own two cents on this whole "what's
the deal with the sand, coffin and cross" affair. I think that Emily's
body was removed from the coffin by the same people who destroyed all
the evidence at the nursing home. The sand served as weight and also a
way to bring the episode around full circle. I think the Consortium (or
whoever) took Emily because Scully immediately opens the coffin after
telling Mulder that there is some remaining evidence, namely, Emily. I
don't think this juxtaposition is coincidental.
As for the cross, I think the people (again, consortium or whoever) who
removed Emily intentionally left the cross. I think they removed the
body knowing damn well that either Mulder or Scully would look in the
coffin and the cross was left as a sort of calling card. Mulder, I
think, turned around with that horrified look on his face because he, at
that moment, realized (not because he took the body but because of his
past experience) that the body, evidence, would have been removed.
I don't know, this is just something I thought of while reading the
numerous theories everyone has on this.