RP & last seacon
Keith
Robert Patrick won't be able to continue an otherwise good gig. DD never
could have come near to pulling off that last role about Doggett and
loss of memory like RP did. He deserves an Emmy (assuming that an Emmy
means anything). There was another "just OK" episide in season 8 where
Doggett didn't know what was or was not real, and it was carried along
solely by the strength of his performance. RP and GA have given me a
respect for actors which I previously had not had.
In my opinion (if anyone cares), the show began to lose its mystery
when production moved fron Canada to the US. It had little to do with DD
departing, for me. DD, merely a passable actor, became a primadonna, and
his demands eventually led to the deterioration of the show's quality. I
think that this is supported by the fact that a large percentage of his
scripts indicated a contempt for the show. So, he was a double-edged
sword, I guess.
Marlene Steinberg
Keith wrote:
Oh sure poor DD he's such a hack. You must be dam blind if you could not
find some wonderful Mulder eps throughout the years of the show. RP is a
fine actor but DD is just as talented even more so. It wasn't DD's demands
that led to the deterioration of the show. It was poor writing and two
characters that many people did not find interesting. If X-Files had the
audience then they would not have ended it. I just read that article where
CC was saying how the show could go on indefinitely because of the wonderful
stories. Boy he must really be eating his words now. It wasn't the scary
stories after all:) It was two wonderful actors named David Duchovny and
Gillian Anderson.
Marlene
Diandra Hollman
:::stands up and gives Keith a round of applaude:::
Wonderful! Thank you! :)
Diandra
Marlene Steinberg
Diandra Hollman wrote:
Wow i guess i was watching a different show. What lead to the demise of the show was bad
writing and characters that didn't go over very well. When David was there for his 8 eps last
season the ratings were at least good enough for the show to come back. Now with just the
manly man and the whale women the show is canceled.
Marlene
Sango2
I will miss RP dearly too, and thank you for the wonderful words. ;^)
Patricia
laura capozzola
>
> Not only will I miss the X-Files after season 9, but I feel bad that
> Robert Patrick won't be able to continue an otherwise good gig. DD never
> could have come near to pulling off that last role about Doggett and
> loss of memory like RP did.
And because of that you would never have seen an episode like
John Doe prior to RP coming on board. DD could have never pulled
off Via Negativa, either.
But, you have to remember that DD was playing the stereotypical
woman's role when he was Mulder. You wouldn't have seen DD do a
4-D (a really great episode) because he would have had the Monica
(believer) part so that scene with Lukesh whispering to Monica in
the police station with the blob of spit on his lip would have
been silly instead of creepy. Mulder couldn't have pulled off
the Doggett part in Within/Without not because of DD necessarily
but because when would a team of FBI agent take orders from
Mulder or better yet, when would a Deputy Director ask him to
lead anything? I don't see Mulder in Roadrunners doing what
Doggett did, either. He'd probably be the one tied to the bed.
I guess what I'm trying to say is they picked RP for the
qualities of John Doggett and they picked DD for the qualities of
Fox Mulder and then wrote stories around those qualities. I
don't think you'll ever see John Doggett girly scream, read
poetry in the field where he died, get hypnoregressed voluntarily
or get a hole drilled in his head...but who knows, stranger
things have happened.
Of course, sometime over last summer, they must have forgoten
that it was supposed to appear that they were developing the
Doggett character and not just biding time until a movie could be
made with the old characters since the only thing we've learned
about Doggett through 7 episodes of Season 9 is that he had a
wife (something we already surmised last season from Invocation)
and that there were 2 supersoldiers in his marine company. And
Monica, all we know about her since the summer is that she had a
thing for Follmer at one time. So much for even making it appear
that the show was being transitioned.
Laura
bitter
##*****************************##***************************##
Visit: "All Things Chris Carter" updated 01/19/02
http://users.erols.com/lauracap/index.html
and
Visit: "The Many Roles of Robert Patrick" updated 01/21/02
http://www.geocities.com/lauracapo2000/index.html
##*****************************##***************************##
Anna
<snip disgruntled post>
> Laura
> bitter
Join the club.
Anna
Anna
> And because of that you would never have seen an episode like
> John Doe prior to RP coming on board. DD could have never pulled
> off Via Negativa, either.
I realize you're angry and bitter at what's happened to your favourite
character on your favourite tv show but comments like this are what prompts
actor bashing by those not normally inclined that way.
> But, you have to remember that DD was playing the stereotypical
> woman's role when he was Mulder. You wouldn't have seen DD do a
> 4-D (a really great episode) because he would have had the Monica
> (believer) part so that scene with Lukesh whispering to Monica in
> the police station with the blob of spit on his lip would have
> been silly instead of creepy. Mulder couldn't have pulled off
> the Doggett part in Within/Without not because of DD necessarily
> but because when would a team of FBI agent take orders from
> Mulder or better yet, when would a Deputy Director ask him to
> lead anything? I don't see Mulder in Roadrunners doing what
> Doggett did, either. He'd probably be the one tied to the bed.
So which is it? Mulder doesn't do Doggett-type stuff or DD doesn't have the
skills to do a Doggett-like role?
> I guess what I'm trying to say is they picked RP for the
> qualities of John Doggett and they picked DD for the qualities of
> Fox Mulder and then wrote stories around those qualities. I
> don't think you'll ever see John Doggett girly scream, read
> poetry in the field where he died, get hypnoregressed voluntarily
> or get a hole drilled in his head...but who knows, stranger
> things have happened.
Are you saying then that Robert Patrick was chosen to play Doggett because he
embodies the manly man characteristics found in Doggett? I think you're doing
Mr. Patrick a disservice. I've seen him playing a pathetic loser of a
character (The Sopranos) and he was very convincing.
> Of course, sometime over last summer, they must have forgoten
> that it was supposed to appear that they were developing the
> Doggett character and not just biding time until a movie could be
> made with the old characters since the only thing we've learned
> about Doggett through 7 episodes of Season 9 is that he had a
> wife (something we already surmised last season from Invocation)
> and that there were 2 supersoldiers in his marine company. And
> Monica, all we know about her since the summer is that she had a
> thing for Follmer at one time. So much for even making it appear
> that the show was being transitioned.
> Laura
> bitter
I've already responded to this part.
Anna
Medie
>Oh sure poor DD he's such a hack. You must be dam blind if you could not
>find some wonderful Mulder eps throughout the years of the show.
it's spelled damn for one *G* and two, yes, he's done some fine acting but
the fact of the matter is, as time progressed, he *stopped* playing Mulder
and became David Duchovny playing David Duchovny playing Mulder. The man's a
decent actor yes, but not something to rave over.
The number of times he's tried to play another character different from
Mulder have been box office bombs for the most part.
>of the RP is a fine actor but DD is just as talented even more so.
*snort* yeah, right. RP's a wonderful actor who, unlike DD, hasn't let
success on any scale go to his head. he came into XF with an established
career as an actor and producer behind him and a far more solid and varied
resume than DDs.
I think David has the *potential* to be a great actor but he's got to start
stretching himself more before he lands any terrific movie roles.
>It wasn't DD's demands that led to the deterioration of the show.
Maybe not, but it sure as hell was the death toll for it.
>It was poor writing and two characters that many people did not find
interesting.
On the contrary, many people do find Doggett & Reyes interesting, you may
not but let's not put a pat answer on it and dismiss them as if they weren't
even there. They simply haven't had enough time to show what they're worth.
CC's gamble to have 'Mulder the Absent Center' may have appeased a few
barbie shipper types but it also drove off a lot of the fanbase as well.
> It wasn't the scary stories after all:) It was two wonderful actors named
David Duchovny and
>Gillian Anderson.
Gillian? Maybe. David? Not lately. David hasn't contributed much to that
show acting wise for a number of years.
M
spookycc
"laura capozzola" <laur...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3C4D61DD...@erols.com...
We learned in "John Doe" that he had a tattoo we should have seen in a few
eps before. ;-)
Seriously, excellent points, Laura and Keith. I couldn't have said it
better.
spookycc
"And there he was. All angles and edges. Lean and laconic. Clear and true."
Dana Scully on John Doggett, "The Bunt" by coolbyrne
Anna
> it's spelled damn for one *G* and two, yes, he's done some fine acting but
> the fact of the matter is, as time progressed, he *stopped* playing Mulder
> and became David Duchovny playing David Duchovny playing Mulder. The man's a
> decent actor yes, but not something to rave over.
I keep reading this but honestly I never saw it. There have been episodes in
which the acting and writing could have been better but with the exception of
X-Cops in which I felt DD's presence, I can't think of another episode where DD
was playing himself. Of course I don't know DD personally so its possible I
don't recognize his character when I see it onscreen.
> The number of times he's tried to play another character different from
> Mulder have been box office bombs for the most part.
Which doesn't mean he performed badly. RP has had many box office bombs and
many many other fine actors do good movies that are box office bombs. DD was
certainly more than competent in both Return to Me and Evolution (btw, I
disliked both movies).
> wonderful actor who, unlike DD, hasn't let success on any scale go to his
> head. he came into XF with an established
> career as an actor and producer behind him and a far more solid and varied
> resume than DDs.
Yes but he hasn't had DD's success so we have no idea how he'd deal with it. It
doesn't mean he isn't just as good an actor.
> >It wasn't DD's demands that led to the deterioration of the show.
> Maybe not, but it sure as hell was the death toll for it.
How?
> >It was poor writing and two characters that many people did not find
> interesting.
> On the contrary, many people do find Doggett & Reyes interesting, you may
> not but let's not put a pat answer on it and dismiss them as if they weren't
> even there.
Yes, there are millions who are enjoying D & R but unfortunately millions more
are no longer tuning in. Judging from what both CC and FOX are saying we have
to believe they think the drop in viewership is directly related to Mulder's
absence. Whether you believe this or not, tptb do.
> They simply haven't had enough time to show what they're worth.
> CC's gamble to have 'Mulder the Absent Center' may have appeased a few
> barbie shipper types but it also drove off a lot of the fanbase as well.
Hardly, from my experience these are the people that are the angriest and most
bitter. They're the ones who refused to watch any more episodes because of
Scully and Mulder character assassination.
> > It wasn't the scary stories after all:) It was two wonderful actors named
> David Duchovny and
> >Gillian Anderson.
> Gillian? Maybe. David? Not lately. David hasn't contributed much to that
> show acting wise for a number of years.
Don't agree. It was Mulder and Scully together that kept me (and millions of
others, I'd guess) invested in the show.
Anna
Marlene Steinberg
Medie wrote:
> >Oh sure poor DD he's such a hack. You must be dam blind if you could not
> >find some wonderful Mulder eps throughout the years of the show.
>
> it's spelled damn for one *G*
Oh the old spelling thing again. Well it's an old story now that i can't spell
very well but so what. Keep on making fun i really don't care. It won't stop me
from posting.
> and two, yes, he's done some fine acting but
> the fact of the matter is, as time progressed, he *stopped* playing Mulder
> and became David Duchovny playing David Duchovny playing Mulder. The man's a
> decent actor yes, but not something to rave over.
In your opinion but many disagree with you on that. I really haven't seen
anything to rave over when it comes to Robert Patrick. It's in the eyes of the
beholder. He's a decent actor but as you said "nothing to rave over"
>
> The number of times he's tried to play another character different from
> Mulder have been box office bombs for the most part.
I hate to tell you but Return To Me was not a bomb. Bob Rueland was nothing
like Mulder and he was wonderful in that movie. Got plenty of praise from the
critics. Even in Evolution most of the critics that panned that movie didn't
like the movie while the actors received some nice reviews. In fact now that
Evolution is out on DVD it held it's place as #7 for two weeks and only dropped
one position the next.
>
> >of the RP is a fine actor but DD is just as talented even more so.
>
> *snort* yeah, right. RP's a wonderful actor who, unlike DD, hasn't let
> success on any scale go to his head. he came into XF with an established
> career as an actor and producer behind him and a far more solid and varied
> resume than DDs.
What success has RP had on a grand scale. How could it go to his head when he
didn't even last two seasons on the show? What other work has he done that he's
made covers of magazines and had people going after him the way David has?
>
> I think David has the *potential* to be a great actor but he's got to start
> stretching himself more before he lands any terrific movie roles.
I agree with the above. Now that he's free from the show he might get the
chance.
>
> >It wasn't DD's demands that led to the deterioration of the show.
>
> Maybe not, but it sure as hell was the death toll for it.
I agree but that's not his concern now is it. He put his time in and had every
right to leave.
>
> >It was poor writing and two characters that many people did not find
> interesting.
>
> On the contrary, many people do find Doggett & Reyes interesting, you may
> not but let's not put a pat answer on it and dismiss them as if they weren't
> even there. They simply haven't had enough time to show what they're worth.
> CC's gamble to have 'Mulder the Absent Center' may have appeased a few
> barbie shipper types but it also drove off a lot of the fanbase as well.
Not enough people found them interesting to make the x-files a show to keep
around. What drove the fan base away was how Mulder's exit was handled last
season.
>
> > It wasn't the scary stories after all:) It was two wonderful actors named
> David Duchovny and
> >Gillian Anderson.
>
> Gillian? Maybe. David? Not lately. David hasn't contributed much to that
> show acting wise for a number of years.
>
> M
Maybe because CC gave him shit in season 8. You give David some good material
and he would eat it up and spit it out.
Marlene
laura capozzola
>
> "laura capozzola" <laur...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:3C4D61DD...@erols.com...
> > Of course, sometime over last summer, they must have forgoten
> > that it was supposed to appear that they were developing the
> > Doggett character and not just biding time until a movie could be
> > made with the old characters since the only thing we've learned
> > about Doggett through 7 episodes of Season 9 is that he had a
> > wife (something we already surmised last season from Invocation)
> > and that there were 2 supersoldiers in his marine company. And
> > Monica, all we know about her since the summer is that she had a
> > thing for Follmer at one time. So much for even making it appear
> > that the show was being transitioned.
>
> We learned in "John Doe" that he had a tattoo we should have seen in a few
> eps before. ;-)
Having a tattoo is not exactly what I call character development.
The significant things we know about Doggett I would say is that:
1. His son was taken and murdered while he was still in the
NYPD. How old he was, we're not sure because of the erroneous
conflicting information in Empedocles about Luke's birthdate, the
date of his abduction and the date Doggett joined the FBI versus
what Monica said to Mulder. We know that Monica met him then
when she was with the FBI and worked Luke's case. We know he was
married. We know he was once on a child abduction task force. I
still have some hope that the details of this story is on
someone's burner at 1013. We know this is still an open wound
for Doggett.
2. We know Doggett was a marine in Beirut when the marine
barracks were car bombed in 1983 but we knew this in Within from
a blurb on a computer screen. (We only know he was wounded from
the official site bio, not from anything in an ep.) We have no
idea where he was between 1983 and 1987. We have no idea how he
feels now or how he felt then as a result of the Beirut incident.
We know he saw his first dead body at 19 when he was a marine.
He's apparently proud of having been a marine based on what's in
his house and his tattoo but the kind of marine he was, how his
men felt about him and what exactly happened to him, we don't
know.
3. Odds and ends things we know which I don't really consider to
be character development: he drinks black coffeee, drives a
truck, eats pop tarts for breakfast and likes sausages, watches
racing on TV, lives in a house and is handy with his hands fixing
and hotwiring.
What we dont know, aside from his son is how he feels about
anything or anybody. We have no idea of what kind of
relationships he's had in his life, what he did in the FBI before
he was put on The X-Files that made people think of him as a
leader, if there are any people (relatives, friends, lovers,
enemies) at all in his life now outside of the FBI. We have no
idea about his opinions, his morals, his values or his
accomplishments. We have no idea about how he was raised or who
has been influential in his life. To me, that's character
development and 99.5 percent of what we do know about him, we
know from Season 8.
And poor Monica - fuggeddaboutit.
> Seriously, excellent points, Laura and Keith. I couldn't have said it
> better.
I'm disheartened.
Laura
SamPiper
>
>Laura
buck up, Laura
Maybe Spotsy and RP will run off to WB and start up a new series. (Im not
trying to be a smartass either .. I just think that was be the most likely
network to grab them right now)
Sam
Baseball Whore and Official ATXF Debunker
"Shut up, Mulder. I'm playing baseball."
Never sleep with someone crazier than you.
Caffeine Cal
Marlene Steinberg wrote in message <3C4CFB0C...@erols.com>...
According to all the rubbish you spout here, you were. So you're still a
liar.
Caroline
ATXF Meanie. 9+ FPSSG.
NRMTPB (YiC). LFC YNWA.
http://www.geocities.com/caffeinecal/page_1.html
Updated!
Marlene Steinberg
Caffeine Cal wrote:
Rubbish? I speak the truth!
Marlene
Caffeine Cal
Marlene Steinberg wrote in message <3C4DDB30...@erols.com>...
About watching the show? How many times have you said you're not watching?
So you are watching a show you said you'd never watch again which makes you
a liar.
You also said a while ago you weren't going to be posting here again, which
makes you a liar.
Marlene Steinberg
Caffeine Cal wrote:
Someone sent me the first two eps of the season and i watched that. Then my
husband taped the awful bug ep instead of Alias by mistake so i gave that a look
see. All 3 eps were horrible. That's all i needed. I read the timeline to see
what was going on and things did not sound very interesting. I only watched the
Mulder eps last season and even those were a mess except for the one where
Mulder and Doggett went on to the oil rig. I don't make any posts about the
recent eps at all.
Marlene
Liz Wallace
<laur...@erols.com> wrote:
>What we dont know, aside from his son is how he feels about
>anything or anybody. We have no idea of what kind of
>relationships he's had in his life, what he did in the FBI before
>he was put on The X-Files that made people think of him as a
>leader, if there are any people (relatives, friends, lovers,
>enemies) at all in his life now outside of the FBI. We have no
>idea about his opinions, his morals, his values or his
>accomplishments. We have no idea about how he was raised or who
>has been influential in his life. To me, that's character
>development and 99.5 percent of what we do know about him, we
>know from Season 8.
We got a hint that maybe he's not religious in Daemonicus. He told
Kobold that the Devil was a story made up to scare people. Or maybe
he was just saying that to see how Kobold would react.
You're right, Laura, that we have learned little new in S9.
We have seen Doggett do lots of stuff that indicates what kind of
person he is, but we have nothing to show why he is the way he is.
According to Shiban's interview, there are several remaining
stand-alone eps. Most of these, from what I've heard, are Reyes- or
Doggett- or Reyes and Doggett-centric. I'm hoping for the best, which
would be good stories that develop these characters as much as
possible before the end.
Liz W.
spookycc
> spookycc wrote:
> >
> > "laura capozzola" <laur...@erols.com> wrote in message
> > news:3C4D61DD...@erols.com...
>
> > > Of course, sometime over last summer, they must have forgoten
> > > that it was supposed to appear that they were developing the
> > > Doggett character and not just biding time until a movie could be
> > > made with the old characters since the only thing we've learned
> > > about Doggett through 7 episodes of Season 9 is that he had a
> > > wife (something we already surmised last season from Invocation)
> > > and that there were 2 supersoldiers in his marine company. And
> > > Monica, all we know about her since the summer is that she had a
> > > thing for Follmer at one time. So much for even making it appear
> > > that the show was being transitioned.
> >
> > We learned in "John Doe" that he had a tattoo we should have seen in a
few
> > eps before. ;-)
>
Didja see the ";-)"? I know that ain't a character development. I was tryna
be funny.
Looks like the high from your pic faded pretty fast.
spookycc - depressed
Boondoggler
> Keith wrote:
> >
> > Not only will I miss the X-Files after season 9, but I feel bad that
> > Robert Patrick won't be able to continue an otherwise good gig. DD never
> > could have come near to pulling off that last role about Doggett and
> > loss of memory like RP did.
>
> And because of that you would never have seen an episode like
> John Doe prior to RP coming on board. DD could have never pulled
> off Via Negativa, either.
Demons.
> Mulder couldn't have pulled off
> the Doggett part in Within/Without not because of DD necessarily
> but because when would a team of FBI agent take orders from
> Mulder or better yet, when would a Deputy Director ask him to
> lead anything?
Kitsenugari, Lazarus, Max/Tempis Fugit.
> I guess what I'm trying to say is they picked RP for the
> qualities of John Doggett and they picked DD for the qualities of
> Fox Mulder and then wrote stories around those qualities. I
> don't think you'll ever see John Doggett girly scream, read
> poetry in the field where he died, get hypnoregressed voluntarily
> or get a hole drilled in his head...but who knows, stranger
> things have happened.
Mulder also hops onto speeding trains, drives pell mell across Tunguska
and Puerto Rico, hops fences and scuba dives.
--
Boondoggler
"You know me, I'm a huge fan of subtlety, but that's downright
encrypted."
Marlene Steinberg
Boondoggler wrote:
He also hangs off of the ski lift at Sky Mountain in Dune Barry/Ascension. David
didn't even use a stand-in for that.
Marlene
Jane
> Keith wrote:
> >
> > Not only will I miss the X-Files after season 9, but I feel bad that
> > Robert Patrick won't be able to continue an otherwise good gig. DD never
> > could have come near to pulling off that last role about Doggett and
> > loss of memory like RP did.
>
> And because of that you would never have seen an episode like
> John Doe prior to RP coming on board. DD could have never pulled
> off Via Negativa, either.
I think episodes such as Pusher, Paper Hearts, Demons and Folie a Deux show
that DD can handle portraying mental breakdown, confusion and uncertainty with
the best of them.
Once again, though, I'm left wondering why in order to praise one actor,
another must be criticized. Why is it necessary to even bring up DD while
discussing RP’s performance? I mean, I can’t imagine that any RP fans would
appreciate a response to “DD could have never pulled off Via Negativa” such as
“RP could never have pulled off Pusher.” Seems kind of like an unfair and
unnecessary put-down, doesn’t it? DD played his part well in Pusher. RP
played his part well in Via Negativa. Neither performance takes anything away
from the other.
The two men played two different roles on the same show. Both were talented
enough to create loyal and devoted fan followings and keep those fans even
when other aspects of the show were disappointing or unsatisfactory. Isn’t
that enough?
> But, you have to remember that DD was playing the stereotypical
> woman's role when he was Mulder.
He was? Are you sure you're not thinking of DD's Twin Peaks role? ;-)
Of all the ways to describe the character of Mulder, stereotypical in any way
is certainly not one I would choose. Mulder’s passion, curiosity,
intelligence, humor and dedication made him a pretty unique character, IMO.
In many ways an oddball among all the law enforcement stereotypes on TV, just
the way The X-Files was an oddball TV show. But that’s why I liked them both.
> You wouldn't have seen DD do a
> 4-D (a really great episode) because he would have had the Monica
> (believer) part so that scene with Lukesh whispering to Monica in
> the police station with the blob of spit on his lip would have
> been silly instead of creepy.
Well, if you're going to reverse the sex roles and re-write the story, why not
make Lukesh a woman? She likely wouldn’t have been intimidating to Mulder in
the same way the male Lukesh was to Reyes, but I think creepy could have been
achieved. It doesn't quite work if you carry it further and Scully, not
Doggett, had been the one injured -- I don’t see her being as eager to end her
life as Doggett was. I think this was a challenge that Scully would have
faced without looking for a way out so quickly. But regardless, the main
reason DD's Mulder and GA's Scully wouldn't have fit the story isn't due to
talent or perceived lack thereof -- it's because the story was specifically
tailored to explore the characters of Reyes and Doggett. But I imagine, if
the story had been about Scully and Mulder rather than Doggett and Reyes, it
would have been tailored to fit their characters the way it was tailored to
fit Doggett and Reyes.
> Mulder couldn't have pulled off
> the Doggett part in Within/Without not because of DD necessarily
> but because when would a team of FBI agent take orders from
> Mulder or better yet, when would a Deputy Director ask him to
> lead anything?
So, this is now no longer talking about what DD, in your opinion, can’t do;
this is about what Mulder the character, again in your opinion, can’t do.
Okay. Just wanted to be clear on the shift in targets.
As for the objections themselves, this is a fairly old argument, but we’ve
certainly seen Mulder work with and direct teams of agents in various
episodes. And we’ve also seen him picked for special assignments, such as
infiltrating the domestic terrorists in that one episode. But you’re right,
Mulder wouldn’t have been picked for this particular assignment. Neither
would Doggett in the present day. Kersh wasn’t looking for someone who would
succeed at the assignment; he was looking for someone who would do his best,
and make it appear the FBI was making a good effort, but would inevitably fail
because he didn’t know how or where to search to solve an X-File. It's really
no compliment to Doggett that Kersh picked him to play the patsy here -- he
was picked because Kersh was sure he *couldn't* succeed. Neither Mulder nor
the now more experienced Doggett would fall into Kersh’s trap, the way the
more naieve Doggett of the past did.
> I don't see Mulder in Roadrunners doing what
> Doggett did, either. He'd probably be the one tied to the bed.
Really? Considering we’ve seen Mulder go all the way to Antarctica and carry
Scully who knows how far out of a glacier/spaceship, I’m really pretty sure he
could have handled the Roadrunners scene. But then Scully wouldn’t have taken
off without Mulder in the first place and the whole show would have been
written differently, I suppose. Different partnerships, different plots.
> I guess what I'm trying to say is they picked RP for the
> qualities of John Doggett and they picked DD for the qualities of
> Fox Mulder and then wrote stories around those qualities. I
> don't think you'll ever see John Doggett girly scream, read
> poetry in the field where he died, get hypnoregressed voluntarily
> or get a hole drilled in his head...but who knows, stranger
> things have happened.
Would you see Doggett be manipulated to take an assignment he had no chance to
succeed at by a duplicitous superior? Would you see him turn away from a
paranormal area of investigation that frightened him – when he’s working in a
unit that focuses on the paranormal? Would you see him shot, killed, eaten
and resurrected via mystical vomiting, and then insist that the idea of a man
coming back from the dead was insane – after a man in a similar state did
exactly that? Would you see him believe that a murderer locked in an insane
asylum was manipulating events to effect an escape, but nevertheless take him
out of said asylum to an open crime scene and walk away, thus giving the
murderer the chance he was waiting for to escape?
Oh, wait – we’ve already seen Doggett do those things.
Doggett and Mulder are different characters with different strengths and
weaknesses. Bashing one character for his perceived failings in order to
build up the other is kind of ridiculous, IMO. Mulder and Doggett have both
been portrayed as heroic – and both been portrayed as human, with very human
weaknesses. We can list all the heroic deeds and human weaknesses if you
like, but it seems kind of pointless, since we’ve all watched the shows.
> Of course, sometime over last summer, they must have forgoten
> that it was supposed to appear that they were developing the
> Doggett character and not just biding time until a movie could be
> made with the old characters since the only thing we've learned
> about Doggett through 7 episodes of Season 9 is that he had a
> wife (something we already surmised last season from Invocation)
> and that there were 2 supersoldiers in his marine company. And
> Monica, all we know about her since the summer is that she had a
> thing for Follmer at one time. So much for even making it appear
> that the show was being transitioned.
I think 1013 was making an honest effort to transition the show by focusing on
Doggett and Reyes in the MOTW episodes and bringing out aspects of their
personalities and partnership. If you’re looking for personal information,
no, we don’t have scads of it – but we never really got scads of personal
information on Mulder and Scully until later in the game, either, except for
hearing about Samantha in the pilot. The way we got to know Mulder and Scully
was primarily by watching them work the cases and relate to one another. The
show wasn’t about their personal lives for a long time; it was about their
investigations, some of which touched them more deeply than others. I think
we were seeing the same thing with Doggett and Reyes in episodes such as
Demonicus, 4-D and John Doe. Even the myth arc episodes, although more
focused on Scully, showed how Doggett and Reyes worked together and related to
one another. I think 1013 and FOX definitely wanted the show to continue on
TV, whatever their intentions concerning the film franchise. I can't imagine
they would have poured $4 million per episode into the series if that wasn't
their intention. Follow the money, right?
Jane
Jane
> > > It wasn't the scary stories after all:) It was two wonderful actors named
> > David Duchovny and
> > >Gillian Anderson.
> > Gillian? Maybe. David? Not lately. David hasn't contributed much to that
> > show acting wise for a number of years.
>
> Don't agree. It was Mulder and Scully together that kept me (and millions of
> others, I'd guess) invested in the show.
I'm certainly one of those millions, too. The show has always been first and
foremost Mulder and Scully for me.
Jane
laura capozzola
> > Monica, all we know about her since the summer is that she had a
> > thing for Follmer at one time. So much for even making it appear
> > that the show was being transitioned.
>
> We learned in "John Doe" that he had a tattoo we should have seen in a few
> eps before. ;-)
>
> Seriously, excellent points, Laura and Keith. I couldn't have said it
> better.
>
> spookycc
Actually, we also know Monica was raised in Mexico and has an
apartment in DC. I think those are significant, just not enough.
We know how Doggett feels about his son's murder but not how
Doggett feels about anything else at all. We don't know how
Reyes feels about anything at all. But most significantly,
except for Doggett's past relationship with his murdered son and
Monica's past relationship with Follmer, we don't know about
these 2 character's relationships with anyone in the present.
Before the 5th episode of first season of The X-Files, we saw
Scully's whole family and knew her relationship with her father
and saw her converse with her mother. We saw Samantha float out
the window in Chilmark in S1. We knew about Mulder's father
(through Deep Throat) and saw Scully's mother, father, friends
and godchild (think it was her god child in Jersey Devil) before
the end of the first season.
And if no one is into them as people, we don't know a heck of a
lot about them professionally either. What exactly did Doggett
do **in the FBI** before he was placed on The X-Files, especially
what made them think he was such a rising star. Did Doggett do
well on a big case? What was it? We knew what Mulder did and a
famous case he worked on. We saw Mulder's old FBI partner in
Season 1. Doggett's former partner must be in the building. Who
is it? He never even mentions the person. How did Reyes become
an FBI agent?
Are these the loose ends that are going to be tied up? I bet not.
;-(
Laura
laura capozzola
>
> laura capozzola <laur...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> > Keith wrote:
> > >
> > > Not only will I miss the X-Files after season 9, but I feel bad that
> > > Robert Patrick won't be able to continue an otherwise good gig. DD never
> > > could have come near to pulling off that last role about Doggett and
> > > loss of memory like RP did.
> >
> > And because of that you would never have seen an episode like
> > John Doe prior to RP coming on board. DD could have never pulled
> > off Via Negativa, either.
>
> Demons.
Demons? The ep where he was crying, *naked* in the shower,
ditched Scully at his mother's, had a hole drilled in his head
and was trying to kill himself? That ep was like long-sleeved
bed shirt wearing Doggett's dream sequence in Via Negativa? ;-D
>
> > Mulder couldn't have pulled off
> > the Doggett part in Within/Without not because of DD necessarily
> > but because when would a team of FBI agent take orders from
> > Mulder or better yet, when would a Deputy Director ask him to
> > lead anything?
>
> Kitsenugari, Lazarus, Max/Tempis Fugit.
I've only seen the first 2 once (and don't remember) but Mulder
wasn't leading a team of FBI agents in Tempus Fugit/Max. If I
remember correctly those other government agents at the crash
scene were FAA and there was another man in charge of them.
>
> > I guess what I'm trying to say is they picked RP for the
> > qualities of John Doggett and they picked DD for the qualities of
> > Fox Mulder and then wrote stories around those qualities. I
> > don't think you'll ever see John Doggett girly scream, read
> > poetry in the field where he died, get hypnoregressed voluntarily
> > or get a hole drilled in his head...but who knows, stranger
> > things have happened.
>
> Mulder also hops onto speeding trains, drives pell mell across Tunguska
> and Puerto Rico, hops fences and scuba dives.
You forgot about the tram. That's my favorite Mulder thing.
Laura
laura capozzola
>
> Gillian? Maybe. David? Not lately. David hasn't contributed much to that
> show acting wise for a number of years.
>
> M
Actually, I have no problem with David Duchovny, as an actor.
I've seen a number of his movies and I own 3 of them. My primary
point was just that for the most part it's Mulder you can't see
doing Doggett things and you can't see Doggett doing Mulder
things because the things that they do is based on the
charactersitics the writers established for their characters.
Like it's a primary contrasting factor to show Mulder as a loner
and Doggett as a leader, but that doesn't mean that Robert
Patrick couldn't play a loner or David Duchovny couldn't play a
leader in some other movie/TV show.
I can't see Robert Patrick playing the Mulder part in Small
Potatoes and I can't see David Duchovny playing The Doggett part
in John Doe. But that doesn't mean that RP couldn't play a
humorous part or David Duchovny couldn't play a bad ass in two
other vehicles. I didn't see Playing God but wasn't DD a bad guy
or an edgy guy in that movie and RP was humorous in Striptease.
spookycc
> Boondoggler wrote:
> >
> > laura capozzola <laur...@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Keith wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Not only will I miss the X-Files after season 9, but I feel bad that
> > > > Robert Patrick won't be able to continue an otherwise good gig. DD
never
> > > > could have come near to pulling off that last role about Doggett and
> > > > loss of memory like RP did.
> > >
> > > And because of that you would never have seen an episode like
> > > John Doe prior to RP coming on board. DD could have never pulled
> > > off Via Negativa, either.
> >
> > Demons.
>
> Demons?
Yeah, freakin' *Demons*?
> The ep where he was crying, *naked* in the shower,
FWIW, I wouldn't have a problem with RP doin' a scene like that. In the
right context, of course. ;-)
> ditched Scully at his mother's, had a hole drilled in his head
> and was trying to kill himself? That ep was like long-sleeved
> bed shirt wearing Doggett's dream sequence in Via Negativa? ;-D
Demons, an ep where Mulder points a gun at Scully?
Compared to Doggett turning the axe on *himself* in Via Negativa?
That kinda tells ya somethin' right there, doesn't it?
spookycc
Anna
> Boondoggler wrote:
> > > And because of that you would never have seen an episode like
> > > John Doe prior to RP coming on board. DD could have never pulled
> > > off Via Negativa, either.
> > Demons.
> Demons? The ep where he was crying, *naked* in the shower,
> ditched Scully at his mother's, had a hole drilled in his head
> and was trying to kill himself? That ep was like long-sleeved
> bed shirt wearing Doggett's dream sequence in Via Negativa? ;-D
Which is it? DD did a pisspoor acting job in Demons or Goodwin and Manners put
together a stupid episode?
Anna
bosco
Just wanted to say excellent post on how silly this whole DD vs. RP/Mulder vs.
Doggett thread is. I was going to try and add something but your post is better
than what I could have done.
bosco
> Medie wrote:
>
> >
> > Gillian? Maybe. David? Not lately. David hasn't contributed much to that
> > show acting wise for a number of years.
> >
> > M
>
> Actually, I have no problem with David Duchovny, as an actor.
> I've seen a number of his movies and I own 3 of them. My primary
> point was just that for the most part it's Mulder you can't see
> doing Doggett things and you can't see Doggett doing Mulder
> things because the things that they do is based on the
> charactersitics the writers established for their characters.
Is that a point even worth making since it's so breathtakingly obvious?
Mulder and Doggett are two different characters and therefore do different
things. So?
> Like it's a primary contrasting factor to show Mulder as a loner
> and Doggett as a leader, but that doesn't mean that Robert
> Patrick couldn't play a loner or David Duchovny couldn't play a
> leader in some other movie/TV show.
>
> I can't see Robert Patrick playing the Mulder part in Small
> Potatoes and I can't see David Duchovny playing The Doggett part
> in John Doe. But that doesn't mean that RP couldn't play a
> humorous part or David Duchovny couldn't play a bad ass in two
> other vehicles.
Then what is different about Small Potatoes and John Doe that you couldn't see
the actors in those roles?
laura capozzola
> > > Mulder couldn't have pulled off
> > > the Doggett part in Within/Without not because of DD necessarily
> > > but because when would a team of FBI agent take orders from
> > > Mulder or better yet, when would a Deputy Director ask him to
> > > lead anything?
> >
> > So, this is now no longer talking about what DD, in your opinion, can’t do;
> > this is about what Mulder the character, again in your opinion, can’t do.
> > Okay. Just wanted to be clear on the shift in targets.
That's exactly what I'm saying. They wrote Mulder with certain
characteristics and they deliberately wrote Doggett with
characteristics that are different than Mulders so imagining
Doggett doing a Mulder part and imagining Mulder doing a Doggett
part isn't going to work. Stick with the Without example.
Mulder could not do Doggett's part in that ep but DD could play a
skeptic or a take charge leader of men or somebody with friends
in some other movie or TV show. People who don't think so are
typecasting him as Mulder. Robert Patrick got knocked around by
Tony Soprano and whimpered and attempted to but couldn't commit
suicide in The Sopranos when he played a degenerate gambler who
gambles away his kid's car, his wife's business and his kid's
college fund. I could never imagine Doggett doing that, but RP
can.
> > > I don't see Mulder in Roadrunners doing what
> > > Doggett did, either. He'd probably be the one tied to the bed.
> >
> > Really? Considering we’ve seen Mulder go all the way to Antarctica and carry
> > Scully who knows how far out of a glacier/spaceship, I’m really pretty sure he
> > could have handled the Roadrunners scene.
Two totally different rescues. Mulder handled the Scully rescue
in Antarctica all by himself. Doggett marshalled the police in
Utah to first look for her, then he called the local Utah FBI to
assist the cops, then he met with the cops to search for her and
to determine the suspect(s) who were responsible in the cop case
committed these murders in the past. In other words, Mulder did
Antarctica the Mulder solo way and Doggett did Utah, the Doggett
methodical coordinated cop way. Very different approaches. Very
spot on for their characters. Can't see either character doing
what they did using the other's methodology. But, could see
either actor doing it on another TV show or movie.
But then Scully wouldn’t have taken
> > off without Mulder in the first place and the whole show would have been
> > written differently, I suppose. Different partnerships, different plots.
LOL! In Roadrunners she was taking a page out of Mulder's book
because he ditched her in Herrenvolk, Demons, Deep Throat, Syzygy
and End Game (and those are only the ones I can think of). So
maybe she wouldn't have ditched him but he sure as hell would
have ditched her and he did. And Doggett wouldn't ditch Scully
and there are no examples of him doing that. The most important
thing in a ditching scenario is making sure the ditcher pays for
the error of his/her ways. Scully wasn't ballsy enough to tell
Mulder off so he kept doing it to her. I doubt that she would do
it to Doggett again after what he said to her in Roadrunners.
> > > I guess what I'm trying to say is they picked RP for the
> > > qualities of John Doggett and they picked DD for the qualities of
> > > Fox Mulder and then wrote stories around those qualities. I
> > > don't think you'll ever see John Doggett girly scream, read
> > > poetry in the field where he died, get hypnoregressed voluntarily
> > > or get a hole drilled in his head...but who knows, stranger
> > > things have happened.
> >
> > Would you see Doggett be manipulated to take an assignment he had no chance to
> > succeed at by a duplicitous superior?
I don't know that Doggett had no chance to succeed other than
David Duchovny wasn't coming back as Mulder until the end of the
season. I don't buy the idea Skinner planted in Doggett's head.
It would seem to me that it would be a feather in Kersh's cap if
his hand picked team leader, the first major responsibility Kersh
had since getting his new job title, was successful. I did not
think Kersh was out of line when he asked Doggett how he could
lose a man in the middle of the desert, either. I might have
said the same thing myself.
Would you see him turn away from a
> > paranormal area of investigation that frightened him – when he’s working in a
> > unit that focuses on the paranormal?
Frightened? "I'm not afraid of anything!" John Doggett to
Scully in Without (scene in the night desert).
Would you see him shot, killed, eaten
> > and resurrected via mystical vomiting, and then insist that the idea of a man
> > coming back from the dead was insane – after a man in a similar state did
> > exactly that?
He couldn't even type it. ;-D
Would you see him believe that a murderer locked in an insane
> > asylum was manipulating events to effect an escape, but nevertheless take him
> > out of said asylum to an open crime scene and walk away, thus giving the
> > murderer the chance he was waiting for to escape?
Totally whacky and no basis for that last car ride, however, it's
not the same as taking a child serial killer out of prison for
personal reasons so the killer could take another kid and then
have your boss blame your partner for not watching you (like she
was some FBI agent babysitter).
> > Oh, wait – we’ve already seen Doggett do those things.
Nothing any agent has ever done on the show compares to the bad
and stupid thing Mulder did in Paper Hearts.
> > Doggett and Mulder are different characters with different strengths and
> > weaknesses. Bashing one character
Bashing a character? Give it up. Characters a probably more
than 75 percent the writer, they put them in the situations and
they tell them what to say and since the same writers are writing
both characters that's kind of a ludicrous thing to say. They
aren't real, you know.
for his perceived failings in order to
> > build up the other is kind of ridiculous, IMO. Mulder and Doggett have both
> > been portrayed as heroic – and both been portrayed as human, with very human
> > weaknesses. We can list all the heroic deeds and human weaknesses if you
> > like, but it seems kind of pointless, since we’ve all watched the shows.
> >
> > > Of course, sometime over last summer, they must have forgoten
> > > that it was supposed to appear that they were developing the
> > > Doggett character and not just biding time until a movie could be
> > > made with the old characters since the only thing we've learned
> > > about Doggett through 7 episodes of Season 9 is that he had a
> > > wife (something we already surmised last season from Invocation)
> > > and that there were 2 supersoldiers in his marine company. And
> > > Monica, all we know about her since the summer is that she had a
> > > thing for Follmer at one time. So much for even making it appear
> > > that the show was being transitioned.
> >
> > I think 1013 was making an honest effort to transition the show by focusing on
> > Doggett and Reyes in the MOTW episodes and bringing out aspects of their
> > personalities and partnership.
If you’re looking for personal information,
Stop right there. What exactly did Doggett do in the FBI before
he was assigned to the X-Files? What kind of cases did he work
on? Did he have a big case? When we were listening to all of
Scully's problems in Season 8, did we ever hear her once talk to
Doggett about his FBI work before he was assigned to The X-Files
or was the show still revolving around her issues and Mulder's
issues even when Mulder wasn't there? What makes Skinner and
Kersh say Doggett was a rising star in the FBI? What did he do
that made him so hot, anyway? Doggett worked upstairs, right?
Who was his partner? Has he ever mentioned him/her? When Scully
was going "Mulder this and Mulder that," did Doggett ever talk
about that one time he and his partner did...anything? Did he
like his partner? Hate his partner? Work well with his
partner? The guy/woman must be still upstairs. Don't you think
it's odd that we know zip about Doggett's FBI work. We knew all
of the above about Mulder by the end of the first season.
> > no, we don’t have scads of it – but we never really got scads of personal
> > information on Mulder and Scully until later in the game, either, except for
> > hearing about Samantha in the pilot.
Oh please. We knew about Mulder's big case in the pilot and
Scully's college paper. We knew what Scully did in the FBI before
she was assigned to The X-Files. By the end of the first season
we knew about Mulder's former partner and how he came to be
working in the basement. We knew about his area of expertise,
where he went to college and what he did and what he majored in
while he was there. We knew about Scully's father and her
relationship with her father. We knew about Mulder's father from
Deep Throat. We saw Scully's mother. We observed Scully on a
date and Mulder with his old girlfriend. We knew about his
sister and by 7 episodes into Season 2, we knew about Scully's
sister, too, and Mulder's mother and his parent's relationship.
We know NOTHING about Doggett's relationship to any people who
are alive - friends, former partners, relatives, his old boss,
the mailman, nobody. He was involved in the bombing of the
marine barracks in Beirut and he was injured. That's huge. But
we don't know those things by Doggett or others talking about
it. We know it from a blurb on a computer screen and info on the
Official X-Files website. He doesn't talk about anything and
Scully never asked him anything and Monica hasn't been alone with
him enough to have a decent conversation with him about past FBI
work cases or anything. For cryin' out loud, Scully was so
wrapped up in her own problems that she never even asked him what
the psychic meant in Invocation nevermind talk to him about
anything at all that had to do with him. It was all about her
and Mulder and her stinkin' big secret. We have some crumbs
about Doggett's son. That's it.
The way we got to know Mulder and Scully
> > was primarily by watching them work the cases and relate to one another.
No kidding. See paragraph above and talk to me about Doggett FBI
history or an example of when during Season 8, Scully once
bothered to have a conversation with Doggett about Doggett. If
she would get lost for a couple of episodes maybe we could see
Doggett's and Reyes' working partnership develop. But no, it's
more important to see schmoopy e-mail exchanges than to bother
with developing Doggett and Reyes as partners or Doggett and
Reyes as people.
The
> > show wasn’t about their personal lives for a long time; it was about their
> > investigations, some of which touched them more deeply than others. I think
> > we were seeing the same thing with Doggett and Reyes in episodes such as
> > Demonicus, 4-D and John Doe.
By my count Reyes has been in 11 episodes and Doggett has been in
28. Talk to me about anything significant that you know about
them beyond Doggett's murdered son and Reyes former relationship
with Follmer.
Even the myth arc episodes, although more
> > focused on Scully, showed how Doggett and Reyes worked together
Really? I must have missed that. I saw a tea party of 3 women
at Doggett's place during the NIHTs and issues about Scully's
baby. I saw a very uncomfortable 2 against 1 scenario in
Daemonicus which you will get with a threesome of 2 believers and
a skeptic which only pitsd Doggett against Reyes when Scully has
to side with one or the other. 4-D was great. Lord of the Flies
we spent a good deal of time on Scully, Bronzino and angsty kids
and virtually nothing on Reyes and Doggett and John Doe, while a
good story only confirmed that Doggett was married but said
nothing about that relationship, nothing new about his
relationship with Reyes or nothing that we didn't already know
about his son.
and related to
> > one another. I think 1013 and FOX definitely wanted the show to continue on
> > TV, whatever their intentions concerning the film franchise.
I disagree. Everything that didn't happen in the pre-season and
everything that has happened (or what didn't happen) in the
Season 9 stories points to an overwhelming desire to not
transition the show. By the time they aired 4-D (a well-received
ep), they already lost their audience with what they didn't do
pre-season nine and during season 9. And then they followed it
with the Jackass ep and Trust No 1 losing any transition gains
they made with 4-D.
> I can't imagine
> > they would have poured $4 million per episode into the series if that wasn't
> > their intention. Follow the money, right?
That's their budget. You need to think "business" and determine
who gains and who loses and what the personal, professional and
monetary motivation is for all of the players. And as Spotsy
mentioned in one of his recent media things, there is plenty we
don't know about going on behind the scenes that we don't need to
know about.
Laura
##*****************************##***************************##
Visit: "All Things Chris Carter" updated 01/19/02
http://users.erols.com/lauracap/index.html
and
Visit: "The Many Roles of Robert Patrick" updated 01/22/02
http://www.geocities.com/lauracapo2000/index.html
##*****************************##***************************##
SamPiper
>Doggett did Utah
Sounds like a pair of porn movies
SamPiper
She didnt ditch Doggett in RR, there was no reason for him to be there. It was
supposed to be a just a consult. What was he going to do, hold her scapel?
laura capozzola
>
> >In Roadrunners she was taking a page out of Mulder's book
>
> She didnt ditch Doggett in RR, there was no reason for him to be there. It was
> supposed to be a just a consult. What was he going to do, hold her scapel?
A consult? That's what she said. Usually in a consult scenario
there is someone you are consulting with. She was alone at the
crime scene gathering evidence not looking at the dead body. She
never even made it to the people she was supposedly there to
consult with.
SamPiper
>>
>> She didnt ditch Doggett in RR, there was no reason for him to be there. It
>was
>> supposed to be a just a consult. What was he going to do, hold her scapel?
>
>A consult? That's what she said. Usually in a consult scenario
>there is someone you are consulting with. She was alone at the
>crime scene gathering evidence not looking at the dead body. She
>never even made it to the people she was supposedly there to
>consult with.
It still wasnt a ditch. She was screwing around, burning time and being
curious. If she hadnt needed gas, she never would have been near that town. I
thought Doggett ripping on her at the end was out of line.
Lisa V. Karaganis
<laur...@erols.com> wrote:
>Medie wrote:
>
>>
>> Gillian? Maybe. David? Not lately. David hasn't contributed much to that
>> show acting wise for a number of years.
>>
>> M
>
>Actually, I have no problem with David Duchovny, as an actor.
>I've seen a number of his movies and I own 3 of them. My primary
>point was just that for the most part it's Mulder you can't see
>doing Doggett things and you can't see Doggett doing Mulder
>things because the things that they do is based on the
>charactersitics the writers established for their characters.
>Like it's a primary contrasting factor to show Mulder as a loner
>and Doggett as a leader, but that doesn't mean that Robert
>Patrick couldn't play a loner or David Duchovny couldn't play a
>leader in some other movie/TV show.
>
>I can't see Robert Patrick playing the Mulder part in Small
>Potatoes and I can't see David Duchovny playing The Doggett part
>in John Doe. But that doesn't mean that RP couldn't play a
>humorous part or David Duchovny couldn't play a bad ass in two
>other vehicles. I didn't see Playing God but wasn't DD a bad guy
>or an edgy guy in that movie and RP was humorous in Striptease.
>
He was *supposed* to be an edgy kinda guy. A doctor who lost his
license to practice due to some drug problems, IIRC.
I enjoyed the movie, but mostly because he was Mulder or Mulder-like
at the very least -- a well-intentioned ne'er-do-well, if that makes
sense (and I'm pretty sure it doesn't). In any case, I didn't think it
was a stretch for him at all. I thought "Return to Me" was more of a
stretch for him and I thought he did well in that movie.
Lisa K.
Playing catch up
tripper 9
often magical and full of life and love. And blood and gore. But
plenty of wonderment that the gore was worth shuffling through.
I told David at the end of the 2nd season (when he already wanted out,
shocked that the show was doing so well when he only thought it'd be a
tiny, short lived, cult following show, like his previous series "Twin
Peaks") that if he left, the show would die.
At that point, Gillian hadn't yet come into her own as Scully. David
was already the force, the reason to watch.
I think David both loved and hated the show. He brought a lot to the
table.
I agree, moving the show to Los Angeles, so he could be with Tea in
Malibu, while nearly everyone else on the show had ties to BC, was a
bad move for Carter. David was going to go after the 7th year no matter
what. Like the Star Trek series', they really should have written a
nice closing episode at the end of the 7th year to send it off in peace.
We'd all be waiting for a new X Files movie every four years or so after
that.
I really like the Reyes character and Anabeth Gish. I grew to like
Patrick as Dogget. I guess Carter gave it the old college try, to see
if it would stick. But the X Files without David Duchovny as Fox, in
spite of fine writing and great performances by all, is like The Police
without Sting. Sorry but it's just not going to work. I wish it
coulda.
Trust No One.
Jayson
tripper 9
much like Mulder.... I liked him in Playing God but it wasn't as good a
movie as Kalifornia.
Robert Patrick is pretty funny in Spy Kids, even though it's not a big
role.
I want to see more from Gillian and Anabeth. I tried watching Playing
for Keeps but found it to be unwatcheable. I've only seen Anabeth in
Mystic Pizza.
Chris K @*_*@
> I want to see more from Gillian and Anabeth.
> I tried watching Playing
> for Keeps but found it to be unwatcheable. I've only seen Anabeth in
> Mystic Pizza.
It's Playing By Heart...Playing for Keeps is
another movie from the 1980s.
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0091767
::Sigh:: I love that movie, but not for
Gillian...more for Jon Stewart and Angelina Jolie.
:)
Annabeth was also in "Shag: The Movie" with Phoebe
Cates, Bridget Fonda and Page Hannah. She's been
in a lot of movies, you have a lot of catching up
to do. ;)
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Gish,+Annabeth
Christine.
spookycc
"Lisa V. Karaganis" <simba...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3c4fc8cd....@news.ev1.net...
I don't watch chick flicks, but "Return to Me" was a great movie. DD sold me
on his character, and I loved his interaction with Mel, the dogg. ;-)
spookycc
"I've died and been regurgitated, and if you haven't done it, it's a neat
experience."
--RP, "Extra Profile", 01/02
laura capozzola
>
> I want to see more from Gillian and Anabeth. I tried watching Playing
> for Keeps but found it to be unwatcheable. I've only seen Anabeth in
> Mystic Pizza.
She's been on VH-1 repeatedly in a movie called "The Way She
Moves" which she referred to in her chat last season. It's a
dance movie.
Laura
##*****************************##***************************##
Visit: "All Things Chris Carter" updated 01/19/02
http://users.erols.com/lauracap/index.html
and
Visit: "The Many Roles of Robert Patrick" updated 01/22/02
http://www.geocities.com/lauracapo2000/index.html
##*****************************##***************************##
&E®
>tripper 9 wrote in message
<888-3C4FB51A-46@storefull->2113.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
>I walked in late. Sorry to hear of the demise of a show that was so
>often magical and full of life and love. And blood and gore.
<Igor> Blood and Gore! Yes master, yes master! </Igor>
>Trust No One.
>Jayson
Jane
> Jane wrote:
>
> > > So, this is now no longer talking about what DD, in your opinion, can’t do;
> > > this is about what Mulder the character, again in your opinion, can’t do.
> > > Okay. Just wanted to be clear on the shift in targets.
>
> That's exactly what I'm saying. They wrote Mulder with certain
> characteristics and they deliberately wrote Doggett with
> characteristics that are different than Mulders so imagining
> Doggett doing a Mulder part and imagining Mulder doing a Doggett
> part isn't going to work. Stick with the Without example.
> Mulder could not do Doggett's part in that ep but DD could play a
> skeptic or a take charge leader of men or somebody with friends
> in some other movie or TV show. People who don't think so are
> typecasting him as Mulder. Robert Patrick got knocked around by
> Tony Soprano and whimpered and attempted to but couldn't commit
> suicide in The Sopranos when he played a degenerate gambler who
> gambles away his kid's car, his wife's business and his kid's
> college fund. I could never imagine Doggett doing that, but RP
> can.
But that's not what you were talking about before. In response to Keith's comment
that
>> DD never
>> could have come near to pulling off that last role about Doggett and
>> loss of memory like RP did.
You wrote:
> And because of that you would never have seen an episode like
> John Doe prior to RP coming on board. DD could have never pulled
> off Via Negativa, either.
Now, were you talking about what DD, as an actor, couldn't do? Because that's the way
I read your comment when you said "DD could never have pulled off Via Negativa,
either." I don't know how else that comment could be interpreted, really. But if
what you really meant was, as you stated above, that Mulder and Doggett's roles are
not interchangable, not because of a difference in the quality of the actors, but
simply because the roles are two very different characters -- well, I pretty much
agree there. Although I do think Mulder and Doggett have certain important aspects in
common, such as intelligence, bravery, compassion, and dedication to finding the
truth, they are also obviously very different in other crucial ways, and that does
affect the way the stories involving their characters are told. I wouldn't say that
means DD "couldn't pull off" Via Negativa. But if his character, Mulder, had been
involved in that investigation, the story would doubtless have been told in a
significantly different way.
> > > > I don't see Mulder in Roadrunners doing what
> > > > Doggett did, either. He'd probably be the one tied to the bed.
> > >
> > > Really? Considering we’ve seen Mulder go all the way to Antarctica and carry
> > > Scully who knows how far out of a glacier/spaceship, I’m really pretty sure he
> > > could have handled the Roadrunners scene.
>
> Two totally different rescues. Mulder handled the Scully rescue
> in Antarctica all by himself. Doggett marshalled the police in
> Utah to first look for her, then he called the local Utah FBI to
> assist the cops, then he met with the cops to search for her and
> to determine the suspect(s) who were responsible in the cop case
> committed these murders in the past. In other words, Mulder did
> Antarctica the Mulder solo way and Doggett did Utah, the Doggett
> methodical coordinated cop way. Very different approaches. Very
> spot on for their characters. Can't see either character doing
> what they did using the other's methodology. But, could see
> either actor doing it on another TV show or movie.
Okay. But exactly how would Mulder's version of rescuing Scully have involved Mulder
"probably be[ing] the one tied to the bed"? Cause honestly, that doesn't sound like
you think Mulder would have rescued Scully differently. That pretty much sounds like
you think Mulder couldn't have pulled it off and would have been the one who needed
rescuing in the end. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting the comment.
> But then Scully wouldn’t have taken
> > > off without Mulder in the first place and the whole show would have been
> > > written differently, I suppose. Different partnerships, different plots.
>
> LOL! In Roadrunners she was taking a page out of Mulder's book
> because he ditched her in Herrenvolk, Demons, Deep Throat, Syzygy
> and End Game (and those are only the ones I can think of). So
> maybe she wouldn't have ditched him but he sure as hell would
> have ditched her and he did.
Well, yeah -- Mulder does have a tendency to run off at the drop of a hat. But
Scully, herself, would most likely not have headed out on her own without bothering to
let her partner know, if her partner at that point had been Mulder. That was kind of
the whole point of the story, right? That at the beginning of the episode Scully
didn't completely trust Doggett yet and was hesitant to fully invest in their working
partnership.
> > > Would you see Doggett be manipulated to take an assignment he had no chance to
> > > succeed at by a duplicitous superior?
>
> I don't know that Doggett had no chance to succeed other than
> David Duchovny wasn't coming back as Mulder until the end of the
> season. I don't buy the idea Skinner planted in Doggett's head.
> It would seem to me that it would be a feather in Kersh's cap if
> his hand picked team leader, the first major responsibility Kersh
> had since getting his new job title, was successful. I did not
> think Kersh was out of line when he asked Doggett how he could
> lose a man in the middle of the desert, either. I might have
> said the same thing myself.
So, Doggett, who (sensibly enough at that point) didn't believe in aliens, much less
alien abductions, much less Alien Bounty Hunters, much less the abilities of pre-teen
psychic Gibson Praise, would have had a good chance of finding Mulder? On the big
invisible spaceship? That Doggett didn't believe in?
From my point of view, Kersh's motivations throughout this storyline were readily
apparent. Kersh, while loudly proclaiming his determination to find Mulder,
immediately took the investigation out of the hands of the people who knew Mulder and
the X-Files the best -- Scully and Skinner -- and gave it someone who, while honestly
determined to find Mulder, simply didn't have a prayer because he was unable at that
point to even comprehend where Mulder truly was. Kersh threatened Scully and Skinner
if they pursued anything slightly "alien" about the investigation -- which was
ridiculous even if Kersh's only reason was that aliens don't exist, because Mulder,
the subject of the investigation, sure thought they did. He backed off on the task
force after the events of Within/Without and assigned the still clueless Doggett to
the career blackhole of the X-Files department. He basically congratulated Doggett on
a job well done following Mulder's apparent death and dangled a promotion in front of
him, despite Doggett's protests that he hadn't solved anything regarding the case. He
then threatened Doggett's career when it appeared that Mulder might recover, and
dropped Doggett off the deep end (back into the X-Files) when Mulder did recover.
Kersh never actually twirled his mustache and gloated, but it was fairly obvious that
no, Kersh did not want Doggett to succeed, as in find Mulder alive. For whatever
reasons, whatever he said to the contrary, Kersh's prime motivation in Season 8
appeared to be doing his underhanded best to make sure that Mulder was not around. If
the reason Mulder left at the beginning of Season 9 was Kersh's warning, as Kersh
himself claimed, maybe he finally found a way to succeed. Perhaps part of the series
wrap up will finally reveal what Kersh has been up to and why getting Mulder out of
the way has been such a goal of his.
> Would you see him turn away from a
> > > paranormal area of investigation that frightened him – when he’s working in a
> > > unit that focuses on the paranormal?
>
> Frightened? "I'm not afraid of anything!" John Doggett to
> Scully in Without (scene in the night desert).
Except that ooky paranormal stuff ;-). I may be remembering incorrectly, but didn't
Reyes and Doggett have a deeply meaningful conversation in Empedocles in which Doggett
confessed that he was afraid to explore mysteries he doesn't understand because he's
afraid he'll find out he didn't do everything he could to save Luke? Or is Doggett
actually just Superman after all, incapable of human weaknesses?
> Would you see him shot, killed, eaten
> > > and resurrected via mystical vomiting, and then insist that the idea of a man
> > > coming back from the dead was insane – after a man in a similar state did
> > > exactly that?
>
> He couldn't even type it. ;-D
You'd think the experience would stick in his mind though -- however much he tried to
wash that vomit right out of his hair. I mean, what a way to come back. I guess it
beats being "involved" in the ass-genie case though.
> Would you see him believe that a murderer locked in an insane
> > > asylum was manipulating events to effect an escape, but nevertheless take him
> > > out of said asylum to an open crime scene and walk away, thus giving the
> > > murderer the chance he was waiting for to escape?
>
> Totally whacky and no basis for that last car ride, however, it's
> not the same as taking a child serial killer out of prison for
> personal reasons so the killer could take another kid and then
> have your boss blame your partner for not watching you (like she
> was some FBI agent babysitter).
Yeah -- it's not the same. It's a lot worse when the serial killer escapes, rather
than ends up shot dead.
> Nothing any agent has ever done on the show compares to the bad
> and stupid thing Mulder did in Paper Hearts.
Oh, I think Doggett's actions in this particular case were a lot more stupid and had
far worse consequences. Doggett *believed* that a locked up serial killer was
manipulating everything to bring about his own escape and he still took the guy out of
the nice safe asylum to an open crime scene. At least Mulder was honestly trying to
figure out if the guy in Paper Hearts killed his sister; what was Doggett's motivation
to take the serial killer out of lockdown when he knew the guy was planning an
escape? Field trip for the mass murderer? What Doggett did there was just dumb. But
more importantly, Mulder in the end killed the child serial killer and ended the
threat before anyone else was seriously hurt. Doggett's serial killer? Fate
unknown. Is he out there somewhere? Is he still a threat? Sure looks like it.
> > > Doggett and Mulder are different characters with different strengths and
> > > weaknesses. Bashing one character
>
> Bashing a character? Give it up. Characters a probably more
> than 75 percent the writer, they put them in the situations and
> they tell them what to say and since the same writers are writing
> both characters that's kind of a ludicrous thing to say. They
> aren't real, you know.
No! Boy, next you'll tell me that there are no real Vulcans, or that Willow can't
really do magic, or that Martin Sheen *isn't* the President. Shyeah, right. ;-)
I do agree that the actions of the characters are pretty much up to the writers. But
when you said:
>> I guess what I'm trying to say is they picked RP for the
>> qualities of John Doggett and they picked DD for the qualities of
>> Fox Mulder and then wrote stories around those qualities.
And then said:
>> I don't think you'll ever see John Doggett girly scream, read
>> poetry in the field where he died, get hypnoregressed voluntarily
>> or get a hole drilled in his head...but who knows, stranger
>> things have happened.
It looks like you're listing things Mulder's done that you think are stupid, that
Doggett would never do. And that the reason Mulder did those things is due to the
writers responding to "qualities" of the role of Mulder, that in your view DD
apparently embodied. Which kind of looks like a bash of both DD and Mulder, unless
it's a compliment to bring the quality of stupid to a role.
> > > I think 1013 was making an honest effort to transition the show by focusing on
> > > Doggett and Reyes in the MOTW episodes and bringing out aspects of their
> > > personalities and partnership.
>
> If you’re looking for personal information,
>
> Stop right there. What exactly did Doggett do in the FBI before
> he was assigned to the X-Files? What kind of cases did he work
> on? Did he have a big case? When we were listening to all of
> Scully's problems in Season 8, did we ever hear her once talk to
> Doggett about his FBI work before he was assigned to The X-Files
> or was the show still revolving around her issues and Mulder's
> issues even when Mulder wasn't there? What makes Skinner and
> Kersh say Doggett was a rising star in the FBI? What did he do
> that made him so hot, anyway? Doggett worked upstairs, right?
> Who was his partner? Has he ever mentioned him/her? When Scully
> was going "Mulder this and Mulder that," did Doggett ever talk
> about that one time he and his partner did...anything? Did he
> like his partner? Hate his partner? Work well with his
> partner? The guy/woman must be still upstairs. Don't you think
> it's odd that we know zip about Doggett's FBI work. We knew all
> of the above about Mulder by the end of the first season.
Not that I have any real reason for thinking this, but I've always had the impression
that prior to his assignment to head the taskforce to find Mulder, Doggett didn't work
at the Hoover office -- that he was working at another office in a different area. I
guess because it just seemed weird that he would work in the Hoover building and
Scully and Skinner wouldn't know him, at least to pass by in the hall. Probably it
was just that RP was a newcomer to The X-Files, but I always felt like Doggett was a
newcomer to the politics of the Hoover building as well.
I think you have some valid points about not getting your questions answered about
Doggett's background. But I don't think the introductions of Mulder/Scully and
Doggett are really comparable. Mulder and Scully were introduced in Season 1 and we
had to get to know them, but even then I'd say the information came in pretty
gradually -- it's not like we plunged into either one's personal life right off the
bat. The focus was always on the cases, and that's how we got to know the characters
-- by the way they investigated. Doggett's introducion came in a season when there
was already a strong main storyline going on -- while you apparently didn't like that
Mulder and Scully remained central to the storyline even in Mulder's absence, it was
the reason a lot of people (like me) were still tuning in. And I remember quite a
stretch of episodes -- from the end of Without to The Gift -- where Mulder was hardly
mentioned. That would have been the ideal time to learn more about Doggett, as
opposed to say the fascinating inner lives of the guest stars of Salvage or Surekill.
We did get to know him through watching him investigate cases, and form a working
partnership with Scully, and a bit through his friendship with the guest star of
Redrum. But I agree that more could have and maybe should have been done about his
personal life.
> The way we got to know Mulder and Scully
> > > was primarily by watching them work the cases and relate to one another.
>
> No kidding. See paragraph above and talk to me about Doggett FBI
> history or an example of when during Season 8, Scully once
> bothered to have a conversation with Doggett about Doggett.
Has Scully *ever* struck you as the kind of person to be overly interested in the
personal lives of her fellow agents, or appreciate their interest in hers? She knew
about Mulder because he told her, and because his obsession with finding his sister
tended to crop up in their work, oh, a time or two, or twelve million. But on a
normal, day-to-day, non-life-threatening crisis basis Mulder and Scully spent years
not sharing their personal minutae with one another. To expect a now pregnant, now
searching for Mulder Scully to suddenly become chatty Cathy with her new partner would
have been a pretty big turn around on her part. She's an insular personality.
> If
> she would get lost for a couple of episodes maybe we could see
> Doggett's and Reyes' working partnership develop. But no, it's
> more important to see schmoopy e-mail exchanges than to bother
> with developing Doggett and Reyes as partners or Doggett and
> Reyes as people.
I think that 4-D and John Doe did a good job developing D&R's personal relationship
and Demonicus gave the audience a taste of their approach to working together. D&R
don't get a lot of attention in the mytharc episodes, and LotF was just stupid. But
we have seen development of D&R as partners and characters, IMO, and they seem to have
intended and still intend to devote the bulk of the remaining season to just that.
> By my count Reyes has been in 11 episodes and Doggett has been in
> 28. Talk to me about anything significant that you know about
> them beyond Doggett's murdered son and Reyes former relationship
> with Follmer.
Doggett, although assigned to the X-Files department, often feels out of place there
and in opposition to Scully and Reyes' ideas. He occasionally has visions that he
fears and denies, along with other paranormal phenomena, because he's haunted by the
fear that he didn't do everything he could to save his son's life. Although the death
of his son is incredibly painful to him, Doggett would prefer to keep the pain because
he would never give up the good memories of his son's life. Doggett has contacts with
certain government agencies and military personnel, and friendships with others in the
FBI, but he isn't afraid to go it alone in pursuit of justice and what he feels is
right. He's tough, but can be manipulated at times. He *really* hates Kersh, and
isn't sure what to think of Skinner. He apparently has feelings for Scully, and feels
somewhat overshadowed by Mulder's memory. He wishes Scully would trust him
completely. He trusts Reyes completely. He may be aware that Reyes has feelings for
him, but doesn't seem to want to bring that out in the open. He doesn't like Follmer
much, and the feeling is mutual. When faced with a serious, life-changing injury,
he'd rather take a chance on dying than live the rest of his life that way. Under
those same trying circumstances, though, he does a good job of keeping a sense of
humor. He keeps his survival skills and training even when he doesn't know who he
is. He was apparently married at one time. He lives in a spacious home in the
'burbs, drives a truck, watches Nascar, finds Mulder pretty annoying for a guy who's
come back from the dead, and may or may not be the key to everything. And he likes
sausage.
As for Reyes...um. She knows whale songs. ;-) Okay, she's harder, since I haven't
been paying as much attention to her. Let's see...she's a specialist in ritualistic
murders who worked in the New Orleans office. She tries to keep an open mind about
different possibilities. She's willing to call Fox Mulder on not being open to
possibilities. She pursues her theories even in the face of personal and professional
opposition. She has certain psychic visions and feelings, usually related to cases
she's investigating. Being assigned to the X-Files is her dream job. She once had an
affair with Follmer but doesn't appear to be interested in him now, although she's
willing to use his feelings for her to get information -- pretty devious for a
whale-singer. She believes in her theories enough to pull the plug on someone she
cares for deeply in the hopes of getting him back whole and complete. She's willing
to risk her life to catch a serial killer. She appreciates Scully (hmmm) and is as
supportive as Scully will allow her to be. She's not afraid of a little hard work and
can whip a storefront church into a labor and delivery room in no time. She is
capable of assisting in the delivery of a child and has one successful run as midwife
to her credit. Scully trusts her enough to babysit the aforementioned miracle child.
She's very loyal to Doggett and may be in love with him. She was adopted and raised
in Mexico and is familiar with the country and its customs. She speaks Spanish very
well. She was willing to run roughshod over the various authorities hindering her
search for her partner. She just moved into a new apartment. Did I miss anything?
Oh, and she may be the key to everything. Or maybe just a whale-singer. But she
really appears to live the motto "Casual Friday, every day of the week!"
Jane
chibiangi
Jane <vze2...@mail.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3C5112AC...@mail.verizon.net...
>But she
> really appears to live the motto "Casual Friday, every day of the week!"
>
> Jane
>
It's not about the stories. It's about the clothes, dude :D
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FEB MBC Sushi!Girlie
"When I bite into a York Peppermint Patty, I get the sensation of
performing oral sex
on a poorly constructed snowman standing in the yard of people I have never
met."-ad
"My career lets me travel to all kinds of great overseas places, like
Canada."
-Britney Spears
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anna
>
> laura capozzola wrote:
>
> > Jane wrote:
<snip>
WOW!!! I just wanted to say that these kinds of discussions are why I
love this fandom so much.
Excellent work!
Anna
Diandra Hollman
> > >of the RP is a fine actor but DD is just as talented even more so.
> >
> > *snort* yeah, right. RP's a wonderful actor who, unlike DD, hasn't let
> > success on any scale go to his head. he came into XF with an established
> > career as an actor and producer behind him and a far more solid and varied
> > resume than DDs.
>
> What success has RP had on a grand scale. How could it go to his head when he
> didn't even last two seasons on the show? What other work has he done that he's
> made covers of magazines and had people going after him the way David has?
Are we talking about the same David?! The X-Files made him as
successful as he is. Unfortunately - as with every star who has ever
been typecast - without the X-Files the odds are against him. Don't
get me wrong, I love him and all, and I'd hate to see him fall on his
ass, but I'm afraid that's exactly what will happen.
And just so I'm not accused of being biased, I'm wondering if all the
people who refuse to - or can't - accept Doggett's character are
having a hard time seeing beyond his typecast as the villan.
Typecasts are a bitch, but, hey, that's Hollywood for you!
Diandra
Diandra Hollman
> I don't watch chick flicks, but "Return to Me" was a great movie. DD sold me
> on his character, and I loved his interaction with Mel, the dogg. ;-)
>
> spookycc
:::starts making obnoxious 'baby talk' sounds:::
Awwwwww...wittwe puppy wuppy! You're jusht a cute wittwe...AHEM...I
mean... ;)
Yeah, I loved that movie! :::sigh:::
I read all these reviews that said he was doing a sh**ty job of
playing someone that *wasn't* Mulder, but I was glad to find out that
they were wrong. :)
Diandra
Diandra Hollman
> >Mulder did Antarctica
> >Doggett did Utah
>
> Sounds like a pair of porn movies
...then they did each other...
:::looks around innocently:::
I didn't say it, I swear! ;)
Diandra
Jane
> Jane <vze2...@mail.verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:3C5112AC...@mail.verizon.net...
> >But she
> > really appears to live the motto "Casual Friday, every day of the week!"
> >
> > Jane
> >
>
> It's not about the stories. It's about the clothes, dude :D
*They*'re the key to everything!
Whew, glad that's resolved.
Jane
Jane
Awh, thanks Anna! Givin' me the warm fuzzies here ;-).
And thanks to Laura Cap as well, for making me think about different
aspects of the show in a new way.
Jane
Marlene Steinberg
Diandra Hollman wrote:
>
> Are we talking about the same David?! The X-Files made him as
> successful as he is. Unfortunately - as with every star who has ever
> been typecast - without the X-Files the odds are against him. Don't
> get me wrong, I love him and all, and I'd hate to see him fall on his
> ass, but I'm afraid that's exactly what will happen.
> And just so I'm not accused of being biased, I'm wondering if all the
> people who refuse to - or can't - accept Doggett's character are
> having a hard time seeing beyond his typecast as the villan.
> Typecasts are a bitch, but, hey, that's Hollywood for you!
> Diandra
Before X-Files i never even heard of Robert Patrick. I did see one movie that he was
in From Dusk to Dawn. I didn't even remember what part he played. So for me he was
not typecast.
Marlene
Marlene Steinberg
Diandra Hollman wrote:
That's funny because he had mostly wonderful reviews for Return To Me. I bet the good ones for outweighed the bad.
Marlene
Kenneth
57_38.10563$ag5.9...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net, "spookycc"
<spoo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Yes Return to Me was a good movie, but I never wanted to have to see David
sob so loudly over someone besides Gillian.
Sent using the Entourage X Test Drive.
Diandra Hollman
Um...you must be one of the few people who hasn't seen Terminator 2.
:) I had never heard of him before X-Files either, but then again, I
was never into Science Fiction before I started watching X-Files, so I
didn't see Terminator 2.
Diandra
Marlene Steinberg
Diandra Hollman wrote:
No, i didn't even see Terminator l. I love sci fi but the Terminator movies did not interest me at
all.
Marlene
Diandra Hollman
> > :::starts making obnoxious 'baby talk' sounds:::
> > Awwwwww...wittwe puppy wuppy! You're jusht a cute wittwe...AHEM...I
> > mean... ;)
> > Yeah, I loved that movie! :::sigh:::
> > I read all these reviews that said he was doing a sh**ty job of
> > playing someone that *wasn't* Mulder, but I was glad to find out that
> > they were wrong. :)
> > Diandra
>
> That's funny because he had mostly wonderful reviews for Return To Me. I bet the good ones for outweighed the bad.
What reviews were you reading? All the newspapers around here (and
Entertainment Weekly) were definitely not "wonderful". And why do you
always have to shoot down everything I say anyhow? :(
Diandra
Buffy
And you NEVER shoot down, Marlene, or anyone else who doesn't share your
opinion, right? We all do the same thing, don't act like it shouldn't happen
to you, too, just because you don't want it to. And Marlene is right about the
reviews, there were a lot of good ones. There were bad ones, but there were of
good ones, too.
Buffy
"To read makes our speaking English good."
--Xander Harris
Marlene Steinberg
Diandra Hollman wrote:
Marlene Steinberg <Pi...@erols.com> wrote in message news:<3C52EBCF...@erols.com>...
> > :::starts making obnoxious 'baby talk' sounds:::
> > Awwwwww...wittwe puppy wuppy! You're jusht a cute wittwe...AHEM...I
> > mean... ;)
> > Yeah, I loved that movie! :::sigh:::
> > I read all these reviews that said he was doing a sh**ty job of
> > playing someone that *wasn't* Mulder, but I was glad to find out that
> > they were wrong. :)
> > Diandra
>
> That's funny because he had mostly wonderful reviews for Return To Me. I bet the good ones for outweighed the bad.
What reviews were you reading? All the newspapers around here (and
Look again Diandra. The good far outweighed the bad. Every movie has both.Entertainment Weekly) were definitely not "wonderful".(
Diandra
And why do you always have to shoot down everything I say anyhow? :
Because the statement you made about RTM was not true. Yes not everyone loved it but it did get more wonderful reviews then not. The good and the bad were sent into afdd and so i can say for sure that more were more positive then not. And by the way it made a profit for MGM because it did not cost that much to make.
Marlene
Diandra Hollman
> >> That's funny because he had mostly wonderful reviews for Return To Me. I
> >bet the good ones for outweighed the bad.
> >
> >What reviews were you reading? All the newspapers around here (and
> >Entertainment Weekly) were definitely not "wonderful". And why do you
> >always have to shoot down everything I say anyhow? :(
> >Diandra
>
> And you NEVER shoot down, Marlene, or anyone else who doesn't share your
> opinion, right?
Well, it's kinda hard to shoot *her* down since I'm always trying to
defend myself with her. But...okay. Sorry.
And Marlene is right about the
> reviews, there were a lot of good ones. There were bad ones, but there were of
> good ones, too.
Again I say: where? I certainly never saw them!
Diandra
Buffy
>>
>> And you NEVER shoot down, Marlene, or anyone else who doesn't share your
>> opinion, right?
>
>Well, it's kinda hard to shoot *her* down since I'm always trying to
>defend myself with her. But...okay. Sorry.
>
>And Marlene is right about the
>> reviews, there were a lot of good ones. There were bad ones, but there were
>of
>> good ones, too.
>
>Again I say: where? I certainly never saw them!
>Diandra
You say you are trying to defend yourself. Don't you think that other people
may be under the impression that they are defending themselves from you? You
tell people to get off the boards if they have the nerve to say that they
haven't liked this season. Is that defending yourself? And if they respond to
that, are they attacking you or defending themselves? Things can be seen in
many different lights. As for the reviews, go check some out at IMDB or google
search afdd, there are plenty of them. Even some of the negative ones say good
things about David. I'm not pretending that it was a universally hailed film,
but it got a lot of nice reviews.
Buffy
Lollee
diandra...@yahoo.com (Diandra Hollman) writes:
>And Marlene is right about the
>> reviews, there were a lot of good ones. There were bad ones, but there were
>of
>> good ones, too.
>
>Again I say: where? I certainly never saw them!
The Houston Chronicle review was quite complimentary - liked the film quite a
bit.
Lollee
Marlene Steinberg
Lollee wrote:
Thanks to alfornos there were over l00 reviews or more that she sent into afdd.
The were from papers all over the USA and Canada. Then she sent in reviews when
the movie went overseas. David should be very proud of this movie because he was
wonderful in it and many reviewers said just that.
Marlene
Michael Walsh
Marlene Steinberg wrote:
"Return to Me" got fairly good reviews, at least in the Los Angeles
area. This area has quite a few local
reviewers as well as media that carry national reviews.
Duchovny got distinctly better reviews for his performance in "Return to
Me" than he
did for "Playing God", which was not highly regarded or attended.
Mike Walsh
Marlene Steinberg
Michael Walsh wrote:
Yes what you said is very true Mike. As much as i love David i did not care
for Playing God. It seemed like the movie was just thrown together If i
remember correctly David only had 6 weeks to film and i think the script
that he was given was not the one they ended up shooting.. Although some of
his reviews for that movie were fairly good too.
Marlene
adhokk7
>Medie wrote:
>
>> >Oh sure poor DD he's such a hack. You must be dam blind if you could
>not
>> >find some wonderful Mulder eps throughout the years of the show.
>>
>> it's spelled damn for one *G*
>
>Oh the old spelling thing again.
Get used to it.
>Well it's an old story now that i can't
>spell
>very well but so what.
If you're happy being an idiot, I'm happy with you being an idiot. There's a
zen thing at play here, you see.
>Keep on making fun i really don't care.
Cool! Moron! By the way, that lower-case "i" would get most second-graders
failed. Welcome to the wonderful world of proper communication. Was that job
you held for "18years" hooking?
>It won't
>stop me
>from posting.
No, but it will allow those of us with an IQ to continue making you look
stupid.
>> and two, yes, he's done some fine acting but
>> the fact of the matter is, as time progressed, he *stopped* playing Mulder
>> and became David Duchovny playing David Duchovny playing Mulder. The man's
>a
>> decent actor yes, but not something to rave over.
>
>In your opinion but many disagree with you on that.
The Flat Earth Society doesn't count.
>I really haven't seen
>anything to rave over when it comes to Robert Patrick.
Coming from someone who can't even spell, that means a lot. <rolls eyes>
>It's in the eyes
>of the
>beholder.
If you believe that, you wouldn't speak in absolutes as you do below. Hey,
look, another Marlene *lie*. What a surprise.
>He's a decent actor
Doggshit lover! Doggshit lover!
>but as you said "nothing to rave over"
Eyes of the beholder, liar.
>> The number of times he's tried to play another character different from
>> Mulder have been box office bombs for the most part.
>
>I hate to tell you but Return To Me was not a bomb.
Yes it was. It was a big-time loser and that's pretty much because of DD. Any
other actor would have made it a huge success.
Bob Rueland was nothing
>like Mulder and he was wonderful in that movie.
Aw, that's sweet. Remember you said that.
>Got plenty of praise from
>the
>critics.
If critics mean so much to you, why don't you pay attention to the bad reviews
*you* get?
>Even in Evolution most of the critics that panned that movie didn't
>like the movie while the actors received some nice reviews.
Cite them. You can't because you're making more bullshit up.
In fact now
>that
>Evolution is out on DVD it held it's place as #7 for two weeks and only
>dropped
>one position the next.
Cite source and explain relevance.
>> >of the RP is a fine actor but DD is just as talented even more so.
>>
>> *snort* yeah, right. RP's a wonderful actor who, unlike DD, hasn't let
>> success on any scale go to his head. he came into XF with an established
>> career as an actor and producer behind him and a far more solid and varied
>> resume than DDs.
>
>What success has RP had on a grand scale.
Is that a question or an observation, Doggshit lover?
How could it go to his head when
>he
>didn't even last two seasons on the show?
Season 8, season 9... That makes two where I come from.
What other work has he done that
>he's
>made covers of magazines and had people going after him the way David has?
T2. Ha!
>> I think David has the *potential* to be a great actor but he's got to
>start
>> stretching himself more before he lands any terrific movie roles.
>
>I agree with the above.
No you don't. "Bob Rueland was nothing like Mulder and he was wonderful in
that movie."
>Now that he's free from the show he might get the
>chance.
Doubt it. Not unless The Story of Cardboard ever hits the big screen.
>> >It wasn't DD's demands that led to the deterioration of the show.
>>
>> Maybe not, but it sure as hell was the death toll for it.
>
>I agree
What? Do you have any idea what you just agreed to?
>but that's not his concern now is it.
Is that a question?
>He put his time in and had
>every
>right to leave.
And whine and whine and whine like a crybaby and then come back when the big
bad world didn't kiss his ass the way he expected. What a loser.
>> >It was poor writing and two characters that many people did not find
>> interesting.
>>
>> On the contrary, many people do find Doggett & Reyes interesting, you
>may
>> not but let's not put a pat answer on it and dismiss them as if they weren't
>> even there. They simply haven't had enough time to show what they're worth.
>> CC's gamble to have 'Mulder the Absent Center' may have appeased a few
>> barbie shipper types but it also drove off a lot of the fanbase as well.
>
>Not enough people found them interesting to make the x-files a show to keep
>around. What drove the fan base away was how Mulder's exit was handled last
>season.
Marlene explanation #1,200,521. Your credibility is invincible.
>> > It wasn't the scary stories after all:) It was two wonderful actors
>named
>> David Duchovny and
>> >Gillian Anderson.
>>
>> Gillian? Maybe. David? Not lately. David hasn't contributed much to that
>> show acting wise for a number of years.
>>
>> M
>
>Maybe because CC gave him shit in season 8.
Okay, see if you can keep up now...
#1. Bad acting = CC's fault
#2. Good acting = CC's credit.
There is the Marlene Pendulum. Live by it, loser.
>You give David some good material
>and he would eat it up and spit it out.
S7 *and* Playing God stand in direct contradiction to that. You did see those
things, didn't you?
-ad
--
NRMTPB- Tyrant
http://www.caryrainey.com
http://www1.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid=12837
adhokk7
>Before X-Files i never even heard of Robert Patrick.
Before X-Files *I* never heard of David Duchovny, along with about 50,000,000
other people. It's amazing how much both of these actors owe Chris Carter (one
more than the other, obviously).
adhokk7
>Marlene Steinberg wrote in message <3C4CFB0C...@erols.com>...
>>
>>
>>Diandra Hollman wrote:
>>
>>> Keith <mcdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:<3C49BFB9...@mindspring.com>...
>>> > Not only will I miss the X-Files after season 9, but I feel bad that
>>> > Robert Patrick won't be able to continue an otherwise good gig. DD
>never
>>> > could have come near to pulling off that last role about Doggett and
>>> > loss of memory like RP did. He deserves an Emmy (assuming that an Emmy
>>> > means anything). There was another "just OK" episide in season 8 where
>>> > Doggett didn't know what was or was not real, and it was carried along
>>> > solely by the strength of his performance. RP and GA have given me
>a
>>> > respect for actors which I previously had not had.
>>> > In my opinion (if anyone cares), the show began to lose its mystery
>>> > when production moved fron Canada to the US. It had little to do with
>DD
>>> > departing, for me. DD, merely a passable actor, became a primadonna,
>and
>>> > his demands eventually led to the deterioration of the show's quality.
>I
>>> > think that this is supported by the fact that a large percentage of
>his
>>> > scripts indicated a contempt for the show. So, he was a double-edged
>>> > sword, I guess.
>>>
>>> :::stands up and gives Keith a round of applaude:::
>>> Wonderful! Thank you! :)
>>> Diandra
>>
>>Wow i guess i was watching a different show.
>
>According to all the rubbish you spout here, you were. So you're still
>a
>liar.
*spnak*
adhokk7
>Marlene Steinberg wrote in message <3C4DDB30...@erols.com>...
>>> Caroline
>>
>>Rubbish? I speak the truth!
>
>
>About watching the show? How many times have you said you're not watching?
"Fifty-two yards into the wind..."
>So you are watching a show you said you'd never watch again which makes
>you
>a liar.
"It's up! It's long enough! It's good!"
>You also said a while ago you weren't going to be posting here again, which
>makes you a liar.
Triple-play, baby.
adhokk7
Do you know what "mostly" means? Let's see some numbers and ratios here, liar.
>I
>bet the good ones for outweighed the bad.
How much does an opinion weigh on Planet Stupid?
adhokk7
>Buffy
>"To read makes our speaking English good."
>--Xander Harris
Dear Marlene,
Buffy is mocking your command of English. JTIS.
adhokk7
>Diandra Hollman wrote:
>
>> Marlene Steinberg <Pi...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:<3C52EBCF...@erols.com>...
>> > > :::starts making obnoxious 'baby talk' sounds:::
>> > > Awwwwww...wittwe puppy wuppy! You're jusht a cute wittwe...AHEM...I
>> > > mean... ;)
>> > > Yeah, I loved that movie! :::sigh:::
>> > > I read all these reviews that said he was doing a sh**ty job of
>> > > playing someone that *wasn't* Mulder, but I was glad to find out that
>> > > they were wrong. :)
>> > > Diandra
>> >
>> > That's funny because he had mostly wonderful reviews for Return To Me.
>I bet the good ones for outweighed the bad.
>>
>> What reviews were you reading? All the newspapers around here (and
>> Entertainment Weekly) were definitely not "wonderful".(
>> Diandra
>
>Look again Diandra. The good far outweighed the bad.
Prove it or the fact that you're making bullshit up stands unchallenged.
> Every movie has both.
Hey, while I'm at it, prove that too.
>> And why do you
>> always have to shoot down everything I say anyhow? :
>>
>Because the statement you made about RTM was not true. Yes not everyone
>loved it but it did get more wonderful reviews
>then not.
Prove it.
>The good and the bad were sent into afdd and so i can say for
>sure that more were more positive then not.
Oh goddam, that's funny. You're soooooo scientific, Marlene. ROFL.
And
>by the way it made a profit for MGM because it did not cost that much to
>make.
Oh well, alrighty then.
engt...@acs.eku.edu
Or it's just a quote that I thought was funny from a tv show I like.
Buffy
Marlene Steinberg
adhokk7 wrote:
> Marlene Steinberg wrote:
>
> >Before X-Files i never even heard of Robert Patrick.
>
> Before X-Files *I* never heard of David Duchovny, along with about 50,000,000
> other people. It's amazing how much both of these actors owe Chris Carter (one
> more than the other, obviously).
>
> -ad
> --
Actually i did know of David because of the film Kalifornia. I went to see it with
a friend who loved Brad Pitt. When i saw he was one of the stars of the X-Files i
was really interested to tune in and see him.
Marlene
W. Blaine Dowler
> Or it's just a quote that I thought was funny from a tv show I like.
> Buffy
"I Robot, You Jane" if memory serves. You'd never know Nicholas Brendan
has (had?) a stuttering problem.
I picked up the DVD set of the first season and started watching them. I
have more respect for the early series now. The writing in a given scene
is often weak, but even at that stage the events of the previous week have
an impact on this week. Some friends doubted me when I said that, so I
made notes.
Ep 1 - obvious first episode; Buffy meets Willow, Xander, etc. for the
first time
Ep 2 - picks up exactly where ep 1 left off. Must be second.
Ep 3 - After episode 2 (by default), and before episode 4 (science teacher
not yet eaten)
Ep 4 - After ep 3 (Dr. Gregory gets eaten) and before ep 6 (Principal
Flutie not yet eaten). Angel gives Buffy his jacket in this episode, and
Xander and Willow first see Angel in this one.
Ep 5 - must be after ep 4 (Xander recognizes Angel), Anointed One
introduced, must be before ep 7 (think Angel's human)
Ep 6 - must follow episode 4 (Principal Flutie gets eaten, Buffy has
Angel's coat), must precede ep 7 (think Angel's human)
Ep 7 - must be after ep 5 (anointed one around), after ep 6 and before ep 8
(learn Angel is a vamp)
Ep 8 - after ep 7 (know Angel is a vamp), Xander first hits somebody, must
be before ep 9 (Buffy's only absense was from ep 2)
Ep 9 - must be after eps 6, 8 (new principal, Buffy has new absense, Snyder
mentions suicide from ep 8), probably before ep 11: there's no explicit
mention that Snyder just got here, but it's written as his first appearance
(eg. explaining to Giles about the differences between his policies and
Flutie's)
Ep 10 - after ep 5 (Anointed one around), before ep 12 (Master alive)
Ep 11 - after ep 7 (Angel known as a vamp), probably after ep 9 (Snyder not
written as new), before ep 12 (Master not dead, Angel brings in Codex)
Ep 12 - after ep 11 (Master dies, Giles has Codex)
If you go through carefully, episodes 5 and 6 can be reversed, and episode
10 can be aired almost anytime in the second half of the season. It's not
as completely sequential as, say, 24, but at least it's not as episodic as
most Star Treks or most sitcoms, where most of the episodes within a season
can be randomly rearranged.
Even X-Files wasn't this well sorted in its first season. The Pilot
obviously comes first, Squeeze preceeds Tooms, Deep Throat preceeds the
other eps with Deep Throat, and The Erlenmeyer Flask comes last. Aside
from that, the episodes can be jumbled a fair amount.
--
- Blaine
ICQ #24893016
XFW #299792458, SW, WM, WNS, NRMTPB, FPSSG
Mox Fulder
[...]
> Before X-Files *I* never heard of David Duchovny, along with about 50,000,000
> other people. It's amazing how much both of these actors owe Chris Carter (one
> more than the other, obviously).
How many people had heard of Chris Carter before the XF?
--
Al Ruffinelli <alv...@accesscom.com>
http://www.turning-pages.com/xf/
http://www.turning-pages.com/xf101/
adhokk7
>adhokk7 <cary...@aol.com.empty> wrote:
>[...]
>> Before X-Files *I* never heard of David Duchovny, along with about
50,000,000
>> other people. It's amazing how much both of these actors owe Chris Carter
>(one
>> more than the other, obviously).
>
>How many people had heard of Chris Carter before the XF?
Three, I think. Four, tops.
adhokk7
Laurie
>Marlene Steinberg wrote:
<snip>
>How much does an opinion weigh on Planet Stupid?
Don't you get tired, ad? I used to laugh at how silly you made her
look, but it's getting old. She apparently enjoys coming back for
more ass-kicking. I know that only by seeing the replies others have
made to her posts. I wonder, if everyone just killfiled her, would
she get bored and go away? You know, you're giving her exactly what
she craves: attention.
Laurie
adhokk7
>adhokk7 wrote:
>
>>Marlene Steinberg wrote:
><snip>
>
>>How much does an opinion weigh on Planet Stupid?
>
>Don't you get tired, ad?
You'd think I would. I normally do with this kind of thing long before now. I
can't explain it though. It's like, I'll finish a slam and think, "Please,
Marlene, just stay down this time...for your sake." Not to make her the
analagous flip side here, but I feel like Apollo Creed watching Rocky getting
back up in the first movie and knowing, somehow, it's my duty, as regrettable
as it is, to keep pounding. There is some good news though. I'll offer it
below.
>I used to laugh at how silly you made her
>look, but it's getting old. She apparently enjoys coming back for
>more ass-kicking. I know that only by seeing the replies others have
>made to her posts. I wonder, if everyone just killfiled her, would
>she get bored and go away? You know, you're giving her exactly what
>she craves: attention.
I have managed to get tapes of a bunch of episodes I didn't have before, so I
expect to have diversionary and reasonably on-topic posts coming soon. Why?
Because it pleases me. :)
Tara
> I feel like Apollo Creed watching Rocky getting
>back up in the first movie and knowing, somehow, it's my duty, as regrettable
>as it is, to keep pounding.
God, I've missed you people.
Tara-----Super!Bitch
(check out the new email addy please)
KatieMoo
"Tara" <tara_c...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u5br5u093nktgnqcc...@4ax.com...
> On 03 Feb 2002 02:26:10 GMT, cary...@aol.com.empty (adhokk7) wrote:
>
> > I feel like Apollo Creed watching Rocky getting
> >back up in the first movie and knowing, somehow, it's my duty, as
regrettable
> >as it is, to keep pounding.
>
>
> God, I've missed you people.
>
<waves> I squealed with delight when I saw the slew of "Tara"s in the box.
:D
>
> Tara-----Super!Bitch
> (check out the new email addy please)
Oooooh...it's got a nice ass.
Katie
--
"Vultures are protected by law, so you can't kill them, even though they
will eat your child. It's true!" -- Tori Amos
Tara
<klo...@uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>"Tara" <tara_c...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 03 Feb 2002 02:26:10 GMT, cary...@aol.com.empty (adhokk7) wrote:
>>
>> > I feel like Apollo Creed watching Rocky getting
>> >back up in the first movie and knowing, somehow, it's my duty, as
>regrettable
>> >as it is, to keep pounding.
>>
>>
>> God, I've missed you people.
>>
>
><waves> I squealed with delight when I saw the slew of "Tara"s in the box.
>:D
A slew of "Tara"s would require most people to take lots of
medication. ;->
>> Tara-----Super!Bitch
>> (check out the new email addy please)
>
>Oooooh...it's got a nice ass.
<glancing in mirror>
You think? I was planning to cut down on the ice cream, but if it
looks good...
Tara-----Super!Bitch
<unwilling to mess with a good thing>
KatieMoo
> On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 13:49:20 -0800, "KatieMoo"
> <klo...@uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Tara" <tara_c...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On 03 Feb 2002 02:26:10 GMT, cary...@aol.com.empty (adhokk7) wrote:
> >>
> >> > I feel like Apollo Creed watching Rocky getting
> >> >back up in the first movie and knowing, somehow, it's my duty, as
> >regrettable
> >> >as it is, to keep pounding.
> >>
> >>
> >> God, I've missed you people.
> >>
> >
> ><waves> I squealed with delight when I saw the slew of "Tara"s in the
box.
> >:D
>
> A slew of "Tara"s would require most people to take lots of
> medication. ;->
>
I'm not most people, I guess. Most people have seen an episode of Survivor,
it seems, so there you go.
> >> Tara-----Super!Bitch
> >> (check out the new email addy please)
> >
> >Oooooh...it's got a nice ass.
>
> <glancing in mirror>
>
> You think? I was planning to cut down on the ice cream, but if it
> looks good...
>
*Never* cut down on the ice cream. :D
Katie <-- ice cream fan
Tara
<klo...@uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>"Tara" <tara_c...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 13:49:20 -0800, "KatieMoo"
>> <klo...@uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>> >> Tara-----Super!Bitch
>> >> (check out the new email addy please)
>> >Oooooh...it's got a nice ass.
>> <glancing in mirror>
>> You think? I was planning to cut down on the ice cream, but if it
>> looks good...
>>
>*Never* cut down on the ice cream. :D
>Katie <-- ice cream fan
Have you seen the new one? Breyers Reese's PB Cup Ice Cream. Holy
CRAP...that's some good stuff.
Tara-----Super!Bitch