Impertinence of Chinese society (Hell Money)
Ash
In article <31F082...@singnet.com.sg>,
Wayne Ong <way...@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
>
> It is very pathetic to watch a Chinese who is unable to speak his own
>language well (the Chinese spoken in the film is pathetic). And a guy who is
>able to read the word "ghost" in Chinese (which is quite difficult), was
>unable to recognise the word for "haunted house" (which was relatively
>easier).
Pathetic to you perhaps.
I can sympathize though. There are those who are born over here who do not
feel drawn to the "Motherland". And why should they? Their life is over here,
not there. While maintaining tradition may be important to you, this is not
the case with everyone else though. The past is the past, one should be able
to choose what to keep and what to drop for the present and future.
As for the "ghost" and "haunted house" problem -- perhaps the guy had previously
dealt with "haunted house" (ie. someone once pointed it out to him and he
recalled it) while he'd never encountered "ghost". There are a number of
reasonable explanations for this.
> And the "game" that they were playing. Huh? What has that got to do
>with the Hungry Ghost Festival, which is a festival when dead relatives' soul
>were to leave Hell for a day to return home, where the Chinese will place
>food and burn incense to offer to them.
The game has nothing to do with the Festival at all. The Festival was used as
a device to create an atmosphere for the show. It could have been set during
Hallowe'en and it would have had the same effect (well, except for the cultural
conotations and general "flavour" of the show).
> I guess they must have hired someone to supervise the parts
>pertaining to the Chinese, and that someone isn't a Chinese. Maybe.
Or maybe the director wanted a particular mood/effect and the actors chosen fit
his bill. I suspect that they decided that the use of a second language on
any XF show is more for effect than for authenticity.
Ash.
--
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Xiaodong Wang
ex...@zap.io.org (Ash) writes:
>In article <31F082...@singnet.com.sg>,
>Wayne Ong <way...@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
>>
>> It is very pathetic to watch a Chinese who is unable to speak his own
>>language well (the Chinese spoken in the film is pathetic). And a guy who is
>>able to read the word "ghost" in Chinese (which is quite difficult), was
>>unable to recognise the word for "haunted house" (which was relatively
>>easier).
>Pathetic to you perhaps.
>I can sympathize though. There are those who are born over here who do not
>feel drawn to the "Motherland". And why should they? Their life is over here,
>not there. While maintaining tradition may be important to you, this is not
>the case with everyone else though. The past is the past, one should be able
>to choose what to keep and what to drop for the present and future.
I think what Wayne meant was that the show was not up to
the standards we usually associate with the xfiles. In terms of
authenticity, it should (IMHO) be a show's responsibilty to
be as real as possible if that is the purpose of the show. And
indeed, the socail environment of Chinatown in which the plot
takes place was intended to be a real place. A real place where
Chinese people spoke real Chinese. Get it? It has nothing to
do with CBC or ABC (Chinese/American born Chinese) and their
lifestyle like your response talked about. It's like saying,
hey how come the FBI agents carry their guns in their armpits,
that's not what real fbi do!
Ying (all this is strictly IMHO)
Wayne Ong
I am crazy about X-Files and all, but I just have to speak about the
"Hell Money" episode.
It is very pathetic to watch a Chinese who is unable to speak his own
language well (the Chinese spoken in the film is pathetic). And a guy who is
able to read the word "ghost" in Chinese (which is quite difficult), was
unable to recognise the word for "haunted house" (which was relatively
easier).
And the "game" that they were playing. Huh? What has that got to do
with the Hungry Ghost Festival, which is a festival when dead relatives' soul
were to leave Hell for a day to return home, where the Chinese will place
food and burn incense to offer to them.
I guess they must have hired someone to supervise the parts
Vanessa Meachen
>"Hell Money" episode.
>
> It is very pathetic to watch a Chinese who is unable to speak his own
>language well (the Chinese spoken in the film is pathetic). And a guy who is
>able to read the word "ghost" in Chinese (which is quite difficult), was
>unable to recognise the word for "haunted house" (which was relatively
>easier)
I thought that he just said he didn't recognise the word for 'haunted house',
because he knew that it had something to do with the 'game' and he was
protecting its perpetrators. On the other hand, he didn't feel the need to lie
about 'ghost' because he didn't know that the gamesmasters were doing nasty
things like burning people alive...
> And the "game" that they were playing. Huh? What has that got to do
>with the Hungry Ghost Festival, which is a festival when dead relatives' soul
>were to leave Hell for a day to return home, where the Chinese will place
>food and burn incense to offer to them.
I don't think they were implying it was anything to do with the festival -
that was just a red herring. The game was nothing more than a cheap and nasty
way to make money by harvesting and selling organs... nothing to do with
Chinese culture, just plain greed.
Vanessa.
Huix2
> In article <31F082...@singnet.com.sg>, Wayne Ong <way...@singnet.com.sg>
> wrote:
> >I am crazy about X-Files and all, but I just have to speak about the
> >"Hell Money" episode.
> >
well, i must agree that the episode is the most un-X-files one i've watched.
it is more like a murder investigation than anything paranormal!!!!
i must add, those chinese in the show are NOT speaking
Mandarin!!!! they're speaking Cantonese (a chinese dialect), or trying
to speak it!!! they sound if they're reading off the script directly!
Huihui
Ash
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96072...@leonis.nus.sg>,
Huix2 <eng5...@leonis.nus.sg> wrote:
>
>well, i must agree that the episode is the most un-X-files one i've watched.
>it is more like a murder investigation than anything paranormal!!!!
Well, it was bound to happen sometime -- a paranormal case turning out to be
a completely normal case instead.
> i must add, those chinese in the show are NOT speaking
>Mandarin!!!! they're speaking Cantonese (a chinese dialect), or trying
>to speak it!!! they sound if they're reading off the script directly!
Yes, there are quite a number of people who speak Cantonese. I've met a
lot more that speak Cantonese than Mandarin. What's your point?
Ash
In article <Duv4Ey....@me.utoronto.ca>,
Xiaodong Wang <xiao...@me.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>ex...@zap.io.org (Ash) writes:
>
>>In article <31F082...@singnet.com.sg>,
>>Wayne Ong <way...@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
>>>
>>>language well (the Chinese spoken in the film is pathetic). And a guy who is
>>>able to read the word "ghost" in Chinese (which is quite difficult), was
>>>unable to recognise the word for "haunted house" (which was relatively
>
>>Pathetic to you perhaps.
>
>>I can sympathize though. There are those who are born over here who do not
>>feel drawn to the "Motherland". And why should they? Their life is over here
>
>the standards we usually associate with the xfiles.
It's possible. I don't think so though.
If it was, then he was doing it very poor job of trying to convey that idea.
> In terms of
>authenticity, it should (IMHO) be a show's responsibilty to
>be as real as possible if that is the purpose of the show.
When was the last time the XF was considered to be "real"?
> And
>indeed, the socail environment of Chinatown in which the plot
>takes place was intended to be a real place. A real place where
>Chinese people spoke real Chinese. Get it?
OK, I got that part when I was watching it. I might also point out that
to a large number of non-Chinese people, they probably wouldn't have
known the difference or cared. The show had an atmosphere and various
elements that conveyed the idea of a Chinatown. It may not have been
completely authentic, but it wasn't derogatory either -- just slightly
incompetant in some areas (like language). Still better than lots of
other stuff I've seen though.
> It has nothing to
>do with CBC or ABC (Chinese/American born Chinese) and their
>lifestyle like your response talked about.
I might point out though that had I not thought what
I had thought originally, then I wouldn't have gone out of my way to write
any of my previoius post. There's no need to rub it in. :)
> It's like saying,
>hey how come the FBI agents carry their guns in their armpits,
>that's not what real fbi do!
But the FBI in this show *don't* carry their guns in shoulder holsters. ;)
Roger Gibbins
I'm Chinese but don't speak a word of it but you could
tell just from how painfully slow the actors were speaking that
they weren't native speakers. If you've ever been to a Chinatown
and heard the language spoken you know they talk quite quickly. I
didn't feel offended or anything but considering the large
Chinese population in Vancouver, it wouldn't have been very hard
to find local bilingual actors to fill the parts.
- Lin in Calgary
Tan Heng Hau
In-Reply-To: <31F082...@singnet.com.sg>
I fully agree with Wayne Ong's opinion on the Hell Money episode.Seems to
me that the producers include Chinese in the show just for the sake of it.
Actually it is a good idea as Chinese are also known for their various
superstitions in their culture,which can be made into an exciting x-files
episode.What better occasion to do a story on than the Hungry Ghost Festival?
However it is a pity the producers gave us Chinese x-philes a big
disappointment.Better luck next time.
Use_Eudora_or_another_system
Pamela T. Pon wrote:
>
> Ash <ex...@zot.io.org> wrote:
> >Huix2 <eng5...@leonis.nus.sg> wrote:
> >> i must add, those chinese in the show are NOT speaking
> >>Mandarin!!!! they're speaking Cantonese (a chinese dialect), or trying
> >>to speak it!!! they sound if they're reading off the script directly!
> >
> >Yes, there are quite a number of people who speak Cantonese. I've met a
> >lot more that speak Cantonese than Mandarin. What's your point?
>
> Not that I would know. I'm only familiar enough with the general
> sounds to know that when this ep first aired, I was overjoyed to hear that
> they were speaking Cantonese (as you'd expect from most residents of any
> Chinatown in the US) rather than Mandarin (which I've only heard from
> foreign students temporarily living in the US to go to college).
> I'd never met any Mandarin speakers until going to Berkeley, or met any more
> since. Every relative and friend we know who speaks Chinese speaks Cantonese,
> or some local village dialect of Cantonese. It's very frustrating to *only*
> hear Mandarin in movies, TV, being taught in schools, etc. because in real
> life hardly any Chinese who are American citizens seem to speak it!
> People always ask us ABCs (American-Borns) why we haven't learned "Chinese"
> (meaning *Mandarin*), eg. by taking it in college -- it's probably because
> it wouldn't do one bit to help us communicate with all our
> *Cantonese*-speaking relatives.
> So even if it was atrociously performed, I'm glad Chris Carter had
> these Chinatown residents speak Cantonese, as most do.
>
> **** pamela pon p...@best.com
> ===> Save DUE SOUTH -- write CBS @ 7800 Beverly Blvd, Los Angeles CA 90036
> ===> Save SPACE: ABOVE & BEYOND -- write FOX @ Box 900, Beverly Hills CA 90213
> **** Ride Forever ***** Do or Die ***** Thank you kindly ***** SEMPER FI *****
The reason why the characters spoke Cantonese is because there's
a lot more Cantonese-speaking actors (because there are lots
of people whose parents were originally from Hong Kong in the U.S.)
in the U.S.
The reason why they spoke so slowly is because I doubt any
of them (except for the boss -- you know the guy from Wayne's World
II) spoke Cantonese fluently. They can only sort of speak it.
The boss, though, as anyone who understands Cantonese can tell,
was originally raised in Hong Kong or perhaps Guangzhou province.
And, yes, the actors did do a horrible job of speaking Cantonese.
They sort-of mispronounced the words. But that's
just what happens if you aren't raised speaking Cantonese.
Somebody suggested that Mandarin is taking over Hong Kong, and
Cantonese is dying. Anybody who knows anything about
Hong Kong would know that's silly.
Also, they sort of messed up on the Chinese words (ie Chinese
"characters"). The word which, supposedly, meant eye ("mu" is Mandarin
pinyin) wasn't act that word in Chinese. Sometimes, they used
the word for fire ("huo" in Mandarin pinyin) instead.
People who can't read Chinese probably couldn't tell the difference.
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Sandra Constantine
rgib...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Roger Gibbins) wrote:
> - Lin in Calgary
If it's the same episode I'm thinking of the two chinese stars were
B.D. Wong and James Hong. I think both these actors are fluent in a
chinese language. I was so happy to see B.D. Wong in an X-file I
pissed they killed off his character. I would have loved to see him
be a reoccurring character. I thought he had the same kind of
intensity as David Duchovny.
I think everybody speaks painfully slow in the X-Files. The music,
blue lighting and the phrasing of the dialogue create an atmosphere
that I never encounter in real life.
I only started to love this show this season. I bought the X-Files
video and heard Chris Cater say he was a big fan of a tv show called
"The Night Stalker". I use to love this show. I'm wondering if the
star of Night Stalker, Darrin McGavin, has ever appeared in an X-File
episode. Since he is part of the inspiration for Mulder I think he
should play an older version of the same character. A retired FBI
agent who was the Mulder of his day. The last think I remember seeing
Darrin McGavin was as Murphy Brown's father.
Anyone else a huge Night Stalker fan.
Sandra
Pamela T. Pon
BGibbs
In article <4tbmfb$3...@marina.cinenet.net>, san...@hollywood.cinenet.net
(Sandra Constantine) writes:
>"The Night Stalker". I use to love this show. I'm wondering if the
>star of Night Stalker, Darrin McGavin, has ever appeared in an X-File
>episode. Since he is part of the inspiration for Mulder I think he
>should play an older version of the same character. A retired FBI
>agent who was the Mulder of his day.
i used to love 'stalker' too, if i'd known when the sci-fi channel (is
that right) started showing eps i'd have watched and taped them.
Ash
In article <4tdr3b$a...@shellx.best.com>, Pamela T. Pon <p...@best.com> wrote:
>Ash <ex...@zot.io.org> wrote:
>>Huix2 <eng5...@leonis.nus.sg> wrote:
>>> i must add, those chinese in the show are NOT speaking
>>>Mandarin!!!! they're speaking Cantonese (a chinese dialect), or trying
>>>to speak it!!! they sound if they're reading off the script directly!
>>
>>Yes, there are quite a number of people who speak Cantonese. I've met a
>>lot more that speak Cantonese than Mandarin. What's your point?
>
> That these actors did a really lousy job of speaking it?
Er, no, that's not what I was commenting on. I quoted far too much from
Huix2's post. What I was commenting on was just the first part "i must add,
those chinese in the show are NOT speaking Mandarin!!!!"
But in any case, you're right, they did do a lousy job of it.
killiam
Sandra Constantine wrote:
>
> rgib...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Roger Gibbins) wrote:
>
> > I'm Chinese but don't speak a word of it but you could
> >tell just from how painfully slow the actors were speaking that
> >they weren't native speakers. If you've ever been to a Chinatown
> >and heard the language spoken you know they talk quite quickly. I
> >didn't feel offended or anything but considering the large
> >Chinese population in Vancouver, it wouldn't have been very hard
> >to find local bilingual actors to fill the parts.
>
> > - Lin in Calgary
>
> If it's the same episode I'm thinking of the two chinese stars were
> B.D. Wong and James Hong. I think both these actors are fluent in a
> chinese language. I was so happy to see B.D. Wong in an X-file I
> pissed they killed off his character. I would have loved to see him
> be a reoccurring character. I thought he had the same kind of
> intensity as David Duchovny.
>
> I think everybody speaks painfully slow in the X-Files. The music,
> blue lighting and the phrasing of the dialogue create an atmosphere
> that I never encounter in real life.
>
> I only started to love this show this season. I bought the X-Files
> video and heard Chris Cater say he was a big fan of a tv show called
> star of Night Stalker, Darrin McGavin, has ever appeared in an X-File
> episode. Since he is part of the inspiration for Mulder I think he
> should play an older version of the same character. A retired FBI
> Darrin McGavin was as Murphy Brown's father.
>
> Anyone else a huge Night Stalker fan.
>
watch, then not go to bed because I was scared of what was under my bed.
I think Darren Mcgavin should be in an episode of the X-Files also. He
would be great.