Dana Scully: Slut
sime...@delphi.com
What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
nite with him?
Slut.
Sunnipve
I'm Sorry, did I miss something? When did this happen, or are we speaking
of an episode yet to come? And who are you to call scully a slut when men
behave like this every day, and are complimented on their virility? The
original poster must have been a guy. This is such a neanderthal knee-jerk
reaction to any showing of sexuality on the part of a woman. The whole
point is you're afraid. Because if women started to act like this en
masse, things would change dramatically. Men would cry.
Gator
Crunchy Frog
Um, Mulder's only chance at nookie?
Skinner's Night-O-Passion?
Oh wait, that would make Mulder and Skinner sluts, too...
Tsk tsk!! Are you telling me Scully's going to pick up some trampy
slut in a bar? Some male floozy? Some testosterone-laden tart? Well, girls
will be girls, but SHAME on HIM.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Crunchy Frog <:8 )--
Goddess-By-Proxy of the Ratboy Brigade and
Zen Priestess of the Taoist Temple of Krycek.
Cathy Wilson
I guess I'd have to call her "A. D. Skinner"
sime...@delphi.com wrote:
>
> What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
> guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
> nite with him?
>
> Slut.
Wishful472
>>What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
>>guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
>>nite with him?
>>Slut.
where did you get that?
JN Cotton
In <BlA2Ve1....@delphi.com> sime...@delphi.com writes:
>
>What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
>guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
>nite with him?
>
>Slut.
Uh...a college student?
nancy (no clever sig)
JN Cotton
In <19970111020...@ladder01.news.aol.com> grav...@aol.com
(GravesPA2) writes:
>
><< Oh wait, that would make Mulder and Skinner sluts, too... >>
>
>
>I've heard the "Scully's one night stand" rumors, and though I think
it'll
>be more implied than shown in the final scheme of things, I'm having a
lot
>of trouble reconciling this behavior with the Scully we've known for
>almost four years. It's going to take a LOT of motivation to make
this
>work for me....if this is, indeed, what they have planned.
>
>Paula G.
Well, I don't know if this is true or not, but it is intriguing! We'll
have to wait and see. But you're right, Paula. To make something like
this work, it would have to be written and acted just right, and if
anyone can pull it off, it would be Morgan and Wong and GA.
Personally, I've been waiting for Scully's walls to crack anytime now.
The woman can't have her emotions sealed off and her defenses up
constantly without something not giving.
We've seen Scully in lots of situations over the past four years, but
very few of these have been truly personal situations--interactions on
a social level. As you say, the motivation for such an event would have
to be strong. Scully is SO in control. It would be interesting to see
just what it would take to push her over that edge.
And although such an event would be out of character as we know it, it
wouldn't necessarily be implausible. It's all too human for people to
act out of character from time to time. Sometimes its for the better,
sometimes for the worse. In those cases, we just look back and write
them off as "mistakes."
However it goes, this episode is shaping up to be more and more
intriguing. (Fox, please give us Never Again soon, okay?)
Nancy (no clever sig)
JN Cotton
In <BlA2Ve1....@delphi.com> sime...@delphi.com writes:
>
>What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
>guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
>nite with him?
>
>Slut.
You may also want to call her "Mulder" since a very similar incident
happened to him in an episode called "3."
So maybe they can compare notes on pickup lines now?
nancy (no clever sig)
Alan Hurshman
GravesPA2 <grav...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970111020...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> << Oh wait, that would make Mulder and Skinner sluts, too... >>
>
> Well, if you want to get technical, yes. :)
A one night stand makes a person worthless, a slut?
Don't think so.
> I've heard the "Scully's one night stand" rumors, and though I think it'll
> be more implied than shown in the final scheme of things, I'm having a lot
> of trouble reconciling this behavior with the Scully we've known for
> almost four years. It's going to take a LOT of motivation to make this
> work for me....if this is, indeed, what they have planned.
Motivation? 4 years without it would be more
than enough motivation for me. Hell, after 4
years you wouldn't just have to hide your 'wives
and daughters' but you would also have to lock
your flock.
--
Alan Hurshman,
The Spa, X-Ville.
(Halifax, Nova Scotia)
StefXF
>>Well, I don't know if this is true or not, but it is intriguing! We'll
have to wait and see. But you're right, Paula. To make something like
this work, it would have to be written and acted just right, and if
anyone can pull it off, it would be Morgan and Wong and GA.<<
My problem with this is that it is so appallingly out-of-character that I
don't think there's any way the greatest writers in the world could make
it credible, let alone Morgan and Wong.
Remember, Morgan told us to be 'very afraid', and if this is true that
Scully gets drunk and has sex with a bloke she's just picked up then I
think they have done a grave injustice to the character of Dana Scully.
Morgan and Wong wrote '3', remember. They apparently think it's okay to
have sex with someone you've only just met. There are a great many people,
previous poster and myself included, who do not agree, and who do not
think the character of Scully as presented to us for 3 1/2 years would
agree or behave like that either.
There are indeed Scully issues to be addressed, and any exploration of
them would be welcome, but there was absolutely no need to destroy the
character in doing it.
Hopefully the poster is incorrect or exaggerating, because they're going
to lose viewers and destroy respect for the wonderful character they've
created if indeed this is what they have chosen to inflict on this
character as their final goodbye to XF.
Stef
JOHN A. COFFIN
In <BlA2Ve1....@delphi.com> sime...@delphi.com writes:
>
>What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
>guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
>nite with him?
""""" Hi Ho!
|-O^O-|
< < > / I called her 'Meil', and she called me 'Casonade'.
\ ~ / Ah, memmories. So, what else do you want to know
___| |___ about my youth?
/ \_/ \
/ /\ /\ \ jc
Coleen Sullivan-Baier
In <19970110234...@ladder01.news.aol.com> sunn...@aol.com
(Sunnipve) writes:
>
> The original poster must have been a guy. This is such a neanderthal
>knee-jerk reaction to any showing of sexuality on the part of a woman.
.....with "jerk" being your key word here..............
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXgizzieXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
AAtchi6973
I assume that he is talking about an upcoming episode; however, the
original poster's point is well taken. Anyone (male or female) whowould
act in that manner is deserving of criticism. What makes matters worse is
that such a display of promiscuous behavior would be inherently out of
character for Scully.
Shame is the best weapon of society against behavior that is harmful
to the overall good.
Alan
Please excuse the AOL address. I only joined to get unlimited access to Air Warrior!
LadyT182
<<I've heard the "Scully's one night stand" rumors, and though I think
it'll
be more implied than shown in the final scheme of things, I'm having a lot
of trouble reconciling this behavior with the Scully we've known for
almost four years. It's going to take a LOT of motivation to make this
work for me....if this is, indeed, what they have planned.
>>
Oh please, call a guy a "man" for getting "laid" and a woman a "slut" for
the same...I say it's about time she got some....hard to believe or not.
Theresa
StefXF
>>When did this happen, or are we speaking
of an episode yet to come? And who are you to call scully a slut when men
behave like this every day, and are complimented on their virility?<<
From all that's been floating around, this probably refers to the upcoming
episode 'Never Again.
And men can be sluts too, I think, not just women. I suppose it depends on
your moral perpective, but I can't believe that the character as they have
created for Scully over 3 1/2 years would credibly sleep with someone
she's only just met because she's drunk, and if they have indeed done that
to her character, it will be a VERY POOR DAY'S WORK INDEED, and will turn
off many devoted viewers who care about the character.
Stef
GravesPA2
<< Oh wait, that would make Mulder and Skinner sluts, too... >>
Well, if you want to get technical, yes. :)
I've heard the "Scully's one night stand" rumors, and though I think it'll
be more implied than shown in the final scheme of things, I'm having a lot
of trouble reconciling this behavior with the Scully we've known for
almost four years. It's going to take a LOT of motivation to make this
work for me....if this is, indeed, what they have planned.
Paula G.
JMorris830
Uh, I don't know what you'd call the woman, but I think the man might be a
member of the Dallas Cowboys.
Pathetic joke, I'm afraid.
But I mean, let's wait until "Never Again" actually premieres before we
cast stones at CC, 'kay?
Jeff
Who wonders why they
didn't just name the
Carolina Panthers the Charlotte Panthers
since that's where they're located.
GravesPA2
<<I agree totally. WE've seen Mulder in a few one nighters-- is he a
slut? And just because Scully is a scientist, that doesn't mean that
she doesn't like sex as much as the next person. Jeez, even doctors
get horny:P>>
We've seen Mulder in ONE one-nighter---as as I recall, it wasn't all that
good for him.
And liking sex has NOTHING to do with picking up a stranger and going home
with him for sexual purposes. I'm quite positive that Scully likes sex,
but she's too smart a cookie to pick up a guy and put herself in such a
dangerous position without some MAJOR motivation to do so. That is my
point.
Paula G. (who thinks that casual sex was dangerous long before AIDS)
LDoone1
<<I respect the character of Dana Scully greatly, but I think she is a
very human character capable of making very human mistakes. Perhaps
this, if it is indeed true, is a glimpse into that humanity.>>
We ALL make mistakes...but those of us who have a tendency to look down
the road and make judgments about the wisdom of our actions, have a
tendency to avoid the HUGE mistakes, while learning lessons from the
little ones. In this case, I think we're hearing things about Dana Scully
that just make her sound reckless and stupid...and that's not how this
character has been described to us.
Lorna
LDo...@aol.com
JN Cotton
speaking
>of an episode yet to come? And who are you to call scully a slut when
men
>behave like this every day, and are complimented on their virility?
>original poster must have been a guy. This is such a neanderthal
knee-jerk
whole
>point is you're afraid. Because if women started to act like this en
>masse, things would change dramatically. Men would cry.
>
>Gator
And women would smile more ;)
Nancy (no clever sig)
Mac Nooge
JN Cotton wrote:
>
> I agree that it would be out of character for Scully to do what has
> been suggested here, but how often are human beings totally "in
> character?" Everyone has in his or her lifetime a momentary lapse of
> reason. Given that St. Scully has been nearly flawless in 3.5 years
> (Biased? Me???:) ), I think we are overdue to see her make a mistake. I
> also think that, given Scully's character, this type of mistake would
> be accompanied hand in hand with a good dose of Scully angst and
> self-inflicted guilt, don't you think?
>
> Nancy (no clever sig)
> Order of the Blessed Saint Scully the Enigmatic--preparing to rewax
> that halo!
Of course I don't understand this whole human hang-up with mating, but I
feel compelled to point our that our Blessed Saint has already made at
least one mistake in the course of the show, one which I'm certain has
kept her up many a night thinking, "Why? Why? WHY didn't I find
SOMEBODY, ANYBODY, to babysit so that I didn't have to take my poor
innocent Quuqeug out to become Nessie bait?"
Farrr more disturbing on a moral scale than mere fornication.
:P
-Beagle
(Also thinking that if she'd had a wiser and more cowardly breed of dog
like myself she wouldn't have to be having those thoughts...*sigh* SYDs.
What can you do?)
Director, Queeuqeg Memorial Small Yappy Dog Rest Home/Bait Shop
"Protecting the SYDs from themselves and Nessie"
snoopy
>
><<I've heard the "Scully's one night stand" rumors, and though I think
>it'll
>be more implied than shown in the final scheme of things, I'm having a
lot
>of trouble reconciling this behavior with the Scully we've known for
>almost four years. It's going to take a LOT of motivation to make
this
>work for me....if this is, indeed, what they have planned.
>
>>>
>
for
>the same...I say it's about time she got some....hard to believe or
not.
>
>Theresa
I agree totally. WE've seen Mulder in a few one nighters-- is he a
slut? And just because Scully is a scientist, that doesn't mean that
she doesn't like sex as much as the next person. Jeez, even doctors
get horny:P
raff
"Buddies are we...me and the ghost upstairs."
JN Cotton
In <19970111130...@ladder01.news.aol.com> ste...@aol.com
(StefXF) writes:
>
>>>When did this happen, or are we speaking
>of an episode yet to come? And who are you to call scully a slut when
men
>behave like this every day, and are complimented on their virility?<<
>
upcoming
>episode 'Never Again.
>
>And men can be sluts too, I think, not just women. I suppose it
depends on
>your moral perpective, but I can't believe that the character as they
have
>created for Scully over 3 1/2 years would credibly sleep with someone
>she's only just met because she's drunk, and if they have indeed done
that
>to her character, it will be a VERY POOR DAY'S WORK INDEED, and will
turn
>off many devoted viewers who care about the character.
>
>Stef
Stef:
Point well taken.
I agree that it would be out of character for Scully to do what has
been suggested here, but how often are human beings totally "in
character?" Everyone has in his or her lifetime a momentary lapse of
reason. Given that St. Scully has been nearly flawless in 3.5 years
(Biased? Me???:) ), I think we are overdue to see her make a mistake. I
also think that, given Scully's character, this type of mistake would
be accompanied hand in hand with a good dose of Scully angst and
self-inflicted guilt, don't you think?
I respect the character of Dana Scully greatly, but I think she is a
very human character capable of making very human mistakes. Perhaps
this, if it is indeed true, is a glimpse into that humanity.
Nancy (no clever sig)
Cassandra
In article <5b7em7$c...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
jnco...@ix.netcom.com(JN Cotton) wrote:
>
> And women would smile more ;)
>
> Nancy (no clever sig)
Sure ... unless they got raped, murdered, pregnant, AIDS or some other
STD. It's not smart behavior for anybody, especially for for a doctor/law
enforcement officer who bloody well knows better.
--
"Sometimes I think we buy a ticket to Gilbert & Sullivan, and when we go into the theater, we find the play is by Harold Pinter." -- Bill Moyers
Sunnipve
I was just thinking about something, and I'd like to have your opinions.
I find it interesting that when Mulder and Scully have "solitary"
episodes, they go off and have these trysts (Mulder in 3 and possibly
Scully in Never Again), yet when they are together they seem to have no
"interest" in others (with the possible exception of Mulder's "Search for
the Horny Beast" w/ Det. White in Syzygy)?
It only underlines the satisfaction they must find in each other's
companionship. Almost as if, when they are not with each other, the feel
that they have to fill some void. I think that the people that wrote
about Scully and Mulder being "married" in the special Entertainment
Weekly X-Files issue were right. If anyone can be said to have kindred
spirits, it is Mulder and Scully. Mabye Kindred is not the right word.
How about compatible? Yin and Yang? Bookends? Complimentary?
I know that these characters are supposed to be realistic, so obviously
that includes inherent sexuality, and most humans try to fulfill their
sexual needs. I just think its odd that they don't exhibit these needs
directed at others when they are with each other.
I hope this makes sense, It's kind of hard for me to explain, oh well.
And just to add an addendum to the post I made on this thread earlier, to
paraphrase Salt-N-Peppa, If Scully wants to take a guy home with her
tonight, its none of your business!
Ciao bella,
gator
RomanticXF
>> Um, Mulder's only chance at nookie?
Skinner's Night-O-Passion?
Oh wait, that would make Mulder and Skinner sluts, too...<<
Yes. And your point is......?
'Slut' doesn't just apply to females. It's a reprehensible behavior in
anyone. Mulder's behavior in '3' was stupid and dangerous. Skinner's
behaviour seemed entirely out of character, but he wasn't drunk and at
least he practised safe sex - and look where it got him.
For Dana Scully or anyone else this would be both stupid and dangerous
behavior. And if they actually make her go thorugh with it, I won't
believe it for a minute.
Slut seems fair comment to me.
RomanticXF
<<In this case, I think we're hearing things about Dana Scully
that just make her sound reckless and stupid...and that's not how this
character has been described to us.>>
ITA. She been presented as wrong, as mistaken, as pig-headed and stubborn
and blinkered before, but never reckless and stupid, and it just ain't
right.
Nick Pedicini
Mac Nooge <ssi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in article
<32D873...@ns.sympatico.ca>...
> JN Cotton wrote:
> >
Personally, I think this and the "Saint" thread say more about the hangups
of the ng than about Scully.
In any case, let's hope that if Our Girl decides to do the Kielbasa Rumba
she at least stops and takes the time to "snap on the Latex"........
NJP
JN Cotton
In <19970111204...@ladder01.news.aol.com> jmorr...@aol.com
(JMorris830) writes:
>
>Uh, I don't know what you'd call the woman, but I think the man might
be a
> member of the Dallas Cowboys.
This is WAY off topic, but I have to point out....
The charges were dropped, Jeff. Dallas police say it was a hoax.
Nancy (no clever sig, and Cowboy fan to the bitter end!)
>
JN Cotton
In <cassandr-110...@ad59-193.compuserve.com>
cass...@sprynet.com (Cassandra) writes:
>
>In article <5b7em7$c...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
>jnco...@ix.netcom.com(JN Cotton) wrote:
>
>>
>> And women would smile more ;)
>>
>> Nancy (no clever sig)
>
>Sure ... unless they got raped, murdered, pregnant, AIDS or some other
>STD. It's not smart behavior for anybody, especially for for a
doctor/law
>enforcement officer who bloody well knows better.
Take a chill pill, it was a joke.
Nancy (no clever sig)
JN Cotton
In <19970112000...@ladder01.news.aol.com> sunn...@aol.com
You make sense, don't worry. And yes, that IS an interesting point.
Appeals greatly to the Shipper in me that desperately tries to come out
of hiding from time to time. I honestly don't think the writers have
conciously attempted to do what you suggest here, but I do like your
interpretation of it.
nancy (no clever sig)
Cassandra
In article <5b8ots$l...@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com>,
jnco...@ix.netcom.com(JN Cotton) wrote:
> I agree that it would be out of character for Scully to do what has
> been suggested here, but how often are human beings totally "in
> character?" Everyone has in his or her lifetime a momentary lapse of
> reason. Given that St. Scully has been nearly flawless in 3.5 years
> (Biased? Me???:) ), I think we are overdue to see her make a mistake. I
> also think that, given Scully's character, this type of mistake would
> be accompanied hand in hand with a good dose of Scully angst and
> self-inflicted guilt, don't you think?
As if the characters are in need of more angst & guilt! <g>
> I respect the character of Dana Scully greatly, but I think she is a
> very human character capable of making very human mistakes. Perhaps
> this, if it is indeed true, is a glimpse into that humanity.
I completely agree that sometimes people act "out of character" and make
mistakes; happens all the time. But this sort of thing, *for the character
as she has been portrayed for 3 1/2 years*, is not a believable mistake
for her to make IMO. It's beyond a momentary lapse of reason; it's just
downright stupid. And one thing Dana Katherine Scully is, is not stupid.
It's too big a leap from the "City of St. Scully" to
"One-Night-Standsville". It just doesn't track with me for the Poster
Child of Professionalism & Self-Control to just chuck out the window
everything she's stood for and represented for years, all for some guy in
a bar. I don't care how many drinks she's had, how big a fight she's had
with Mulder, how much she's examining her life, how "unfulfilled" she's
feeling or how good a line the bar-guy has. If these characters can all of
a sudden do something so egregiously out-of-character, what's to stop M&S
from one day, while they're interviewing a suspect, to just suddenly start
giggling & burst into show tunes b/c, well, b/c it's payday & they're just
kind of *happy*? (I'm sorry, that last part was a bit overly sarcastic,
but I think the idea behind the sarcasm is still valid.) There's a line of
believability, and unless they come up with one HELL of a motivation, this
ep's plot device is waaaaay over mine & firmly ensconced in the Land of
"Yeah, Right, Gimmee a Break". Next thing we know, *Mama Scully* is gonna
be picking up strange men in bars b/c she misses Ahab sooooo much and
being a widow is just sooooo lonely! <eg>
If they wanted to give Scully some flaws -- and in truth I think she does
already have some, though they're not as glaringly obvious as some of
Mulder's -- and have her falling for the wrong guy, OK, that could be
believably done: she gets involved with some jerk in Accounting or Violent
Crimes who happens to treat her nice at first but turns out to be a
weasel, or she can't see the obvious flaws of some old friend from med
school who comes back into her life & takes advantage of their history
together. But for her to pick the guy up in a bar & go home with him that
night? Huh-huh, this Scully-phile's not buying it. That's just taking it
too far. I don't doubt that Gillian will do a *fabulous* job of it all; I
just wish they could've examined her character while she still *was* her
character!
One thing about all this that really bugs me is that if they show this
episode after the Super Bowl as originally planned, millions of first-time
viewers will get the idea that Dana Scully is an unprofessional idiot who
gets drunk & picks up strange men in bars. Many of those first-time
viewers will never see the show again, and that will be the impression of
Dana Scully they will be left with. That is a travesty, and it makes me
physically ill, b/c it's *so far* away from what her wonderful character
really is. No doubt that's why they had 2nd-thoughts about the scheduling,
and I can only hope they put some other ep there instead, to at least
salvage *something*.
--
Cassandra
Fogg
Cassandra wrote:
> One thing about all this that really bugs me is that if they show this
> episode after the Super Bowl as originally planned, millions of first-time
> viewers will get the idea that Dana Scully is an unprofessional idiot who
> gets drunk & picks up strange men in bars. Many of those first-time
> viewers will never see the show again, and that will be the impression of
> Dana Scully they will be left with. That is a travesty, and it makes me
> physically ill, b/c it's *so far* away from what her wonderful character
> really is. No doubt that's why they had 2nd-thoughts about the scheduling,
> and I can only hope they put some other ep there instead, to at least
> salvage *something*.
Do you really think that the network would try to lure these kinds of
lunkheads into watching XF this way? I think they would find the show
uninteresting. Not to offend any "real" football/XF fans out there! And
may I say that while the topic of Scully's character has made for
interesting discussion, let us also remember that Dana is Catholic.
Would she really just throw away her values like that? And just who is
the author (sime...@delphi.com) of the original message anyway?
Katy in Whoville
RomanticXF
>> Huh-huh, this Scully-phile's not buying it. That's just taking it
too far. I don't doubt that Gillian will do a *fabulous* job of it all; I
just wish they could've examined her character while she still *was* her
character!<<
ROFL, and right on the button!!
StefXF
Crunchy Frong flamed:-
>>Women do not get raped because they are promiscuous. Women do
not get raped because they are sexually adventurous. Women do not get
raped because they are drunk. Women get raped because there are people out
there who think they should be "punished" for being anything other than
chaste Mary-figures. And sometimes for that too. <<
All those things happen to them because there are enough wicked men out
there who will take advantage of a stupid mistake. You exort the previous
poster to live in this century - try living in the real world yourself. It
may mot be right. It may not be fair. BUT IT HAPPENS.
If you get drunk with a guy you've only just met and go back to his
apartment while you're drunk you lay yourself open to the danger that you
have put yourself in a situation and you have lost your ability to deal
with any danger which might arise. Sorry, but it's a really stupid thing
to do.
No-one has said that it's the woman's fault, so you have set up your own
guy in order to knock it down yourself. But it IS STUPID, and Scully as
developed so far is not that STUPID. It's stupid to walk round pretending
there aren't dangers in the world just because it's not just or fair that
the dangers exist. It's prudent to take reasnable precautions to avoid the
dangers whilst getting on with your life as you want to live it. Scully is
a prudent character. Whatever mistake she might make, getting drunk with a
stranger and spending the night with him is not one of them.
StefXF
>> And may I say that while the topic of Scully's character has made for
interesting discussion, let us also remember that Dana is Catholic.
Would she really just throw away her values like that? <<
Good point. I don't think she would, either.
But the writers don't seem to care for consistency of character as much as
exploring a particlar idea in a script no matter *what* injustice it does
to the character or characters involved.
Stef
Crunchy Frog
On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Cassandra wrote:
> In article <5b7em7$c...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
> jnco...@ix.netcom.com(JN Cotton) wrote:
>
> >
> > And women would smile more ;)
> >
> > Nancy (no clever sig)
>
> Sure ... unless they got raped, murdered, pregnant, AIDS or some other
> STD. It's not smart behavior for anybody, especially for for a doctor/law
> enforcement officer who bloody well knows better.
*****The Frogmeistress engages Full Combat Assault Unit*****
Pardon me, cookie? Women who are sexually confident and aggressive
leads to women being raped & murdered? ahem, but JUST WHAT THE HELL
CENTURY IS YOUR LOGIC IN?? You're damn right this is a flame. This is
dangerously close to a "blame the victim" attitude, and I really hope
reality doesn't have to knock some sense into you.
Women do not get raped because they are promiscuous. Women do
not get raped because they are sexually adventurous. Women do not get
raped because they are drunk. Women get raped because there are people out
there who think they should be "punished" for being anything other than
chaste Mary-figures. And sometimes for that too.
Oh, while you're back there in the Middle Ages, say hi to St
Augustine of Canterbury for me. Tell him he still owes me a keg, the
smegger.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Crunchy Frog <:8 )--
Goddess-By-Proxy of the Ratboy Brigade and
Zen Priestess of the Taoist Temple of Krycek.
M.Roebuck
Wishful472 wrote:
>
> >>What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
> >>guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
> >>nite with him?
>
> >>Slut.
>
> where did you get that?
If Mulder did the same, no-one would bat an eyelid (see '3' etcetera...)
Scully deserves to have a sex life - she hasn't had a date since season
1 so far as I can remember, unless you count getting kidnapped by
assorted aliens and psychos...
MJ
Leigh A Vrabel
Okay, I feel honor-bound to put in my two cents on this one...
First of all, the words "promiscuous" and "slut," which have been
bandied about in this thread, imply someone who has had MULTIPLE casual
sexual partners/encounters. To the best of my recollection, Scully has
had ONE date (Rob in "Jersey Devil") and one near-wild-thing experience
(Brother Andrew, was it, in "Genderbender"?). Should our dear Squirrel
have sex in "Never Again" or any other episode, it would simply mean what
we already know, being human ourselves: Scully, like any other woman, has
sexual needs and desires, and she is at liberty to exercise them as she
pleases. As others have pointed out in this thread, Scully is a sensible,
responsible person, and I'm confident that if she does have a fling, it
will be handled responsibly and according to character. Say what you will
about CC and plot continuity, but his characterization is always right on
the mark.
It just occurred to me that we're probably blowing this thing way
out of proportion...I mean, the powers that be haven't come right out and
SAID that Scully's having sex in "Never Again." Guess we'll just have to
wait...impatiently...tearing up paper to build our nests...:)
Leigh Anne
GravesPA2
<<> GravesPA2,grav...@aol.com,Internet writes:
> <<I agree totally. WE've seen Mulder in a few one nighters-- is he a
> slut?
I think "a few" may be overly generous. The man is a monk.>>
Well, *I* didn't say that...someone else did. *I* said that he's had ONE
1 night stand---Kristen---and that wasn't all that good for him.
Just wanted to clarify.
Paula G.
ruta...@aol.com
To throw more powder into the keg... (this is very long, sorry, but
PLEASE read to the end - I get to a point eventually)
alot of the problem we seem to be having with this stems from the fact
that we're creating a character sketch of Scully in relation to how she is
portrayed within the confines of the show. When Carter created the
character, he (I assume) created an entire *life* for her, not simply what
is shown in each episode. All we viewers see is what happens while she's
on the job and, very occasionally, a glimpse of her at home. Who's to say
that she really *is* the straightforward professional on her own time?
How many of y'all behave differently at the office than you do with your
friends in the privacy of your flat/house? Much fan fiction attempts this
- to give the characters a life outside of which we see or which is
alluded to on the show. In the same vein, I usually dismiss those
netpickers who always dispute timelines - "but how did _____ happen when
we didn't see the events leading up to them?" Well, who is to say that
what we *see* on the show is all that happens?
That said, if we do look at the character of Scully exactly as she is
presented on the show, her [rumored] behavior is uncharacteristic, but not
out of the question. I agree with those who say that her Catholicism and
high moral values hinder that sort of behavior; however, in the end, she
is only human like us all. What all do we know about this case file thus
far? "Scully reluctantly investigates one of Mulder's cases alone and
gets involved with a man bearing a deadly tattoo." [paraphrased]. What
has happened to cause Mulder not to be around to investigate the case? I
like the idea that she is being shown as so fully a partner in the
division (despite, of course, having to knock on the door...) that she is
given a case to investigate on her own. Of course, I hate that the
website calls it "one of _Mulder's_ cases" but that's another posting.
Other than that, we don't know very much except what has floated down to
us from reliable sources (thanks, Sheryl). This woman has lived -on the
show- for almost four years and done very little solely for herself - her
actions are almost always in relation to Mulder, her family, or another
factor. Why not allow her a little self-indulgence?
And what about this man with whom she gets involved? We do know that he's
a suspect, but does that necessarily mean he's some big dark man with evil
intentions? Aside from his deadly tattoo, he could actually be a
friendly, charming, thoroughly nice guy who just happens to be a suspect.
The proposed sex scene has been written out of the script, so we haven't
that to worry about. Myself, I'd love to have her sleep with someone (and
yes, I am a sometime-shipper) but, even more, I'd love to see her
wrestling with her personal emotions and needs in relation to what her
common sense and strong convictions tell her is right... and I'd rather
see those emotions and needs win!
cheers,
Alanna, very proud acolyte in the OBSSE.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alanna Baker, mba...@cs.trinity.edu......x'ed etc.
not only deadlier but smarter too.
"There's no justice like angry mob justice" - Principal Skinner
'Red Crow' XVille's resident Hippie.
In article <BlA2Ve1....@delphi.com>, sime...@delphi.com writes
>What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
>guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
>nite with him?
>
>Slut.
--
'Red Crow' XVille's resident Hippie,
And co-captain of the Tooms cheerleading squad.
(who can't make it to practise as she has busted her knee...)
Mad Hamish
In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.970112005203.21243A-100000@fraser>, awa...@sfu.ca
says...
> Pardon me, cookie? Women who are sexually confident and aggressive
>leads to women being raped & murdered?
Well it shouldn't. Whether it contributes or not is another question, it
depends upon the behaviour of the individual woman involved as to whether she
puts herself in more danger of being raped, i.e. wandering through dark
streets alone is _bloody_stupid_for_everyone_.
I believe that committing rape is disgusting (I favour castration at the neck
for it in most cases) _but_ that doesn't mean that if someone doesn't think
about the risks involved in their actions that it's reasonable to ignore
warning them. It is (for example)_stupid_ to wander through the streets alone
wearing something sexy, it is _no_excuse_ for rape but it's still stupid. In
a perfect world they'd be safe, this is a long way from a perfect world.
> ahem, but JUST WHAT THE HELL
>CENTURY IS YOUR LOGIC IN?? You're damn right this is a flame. This is
>dangerously close to a "blame the victim" attitude, and I really hope
>reality doesn't have to knock some sense into you.
Hold on there! Just because somebody is pointing out that it is a real risk
doesn't mean that they agree with the causes of it being risky.
>
> Women do not get raped because they are promiscuous. Women do
>not get raped because they are sexually adventurous. Women do not get
>raped because they are drunk. Women get raped because there are people out
>there who think they should be "punished" for being anything other than
>chaste Mary-figures. And sometimes for that too.
>
Well I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist however my _understanding_ of the
issue is that most of the experts believe that rape is based on a desire for
the person to express control.
--
****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
h_l...@postoffice.sandybay.utas.edu.au
Alan Hurshman
AAtchi6973 <aatch...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970112200...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Methinks I hear an hysterical woman. <g>
> Are you capable of clear thinking or just trying to espouse the Tired,
> Old, & Out-dated feminist rhetoric that you learned in College? But
> judging by your inability to respond in a reasonable matter to a person
> who is trying to make a legitimate point....you probably didn't go to
> college. Your intolerance is exactly what is wrong with society.
Let me see - you criticize someone for being intolerant
and then conclude that this is what is wrong with society.
But YOU:
(1) Spout off in a manner that is rude and insulting.
You make no attempt to argue a point but fall back
on the tired techniques used by the Newt dorks of
the world. What statements did she make that can
be legitimately ascribed to feminism and what type
of feminism are you talking about? How or why are
these views outdated? Why are they wrong? And why
is the educational background of the person you are
responding to important?
(2) Fail to include any part of the message you are
responding to making it difficult to know who the
hell you are insulting.
Don't insult a person for bad spelling if you youself
cannot spell worth a damn. Don't criticize people for
being intolerant or stupid when your own post contains
nothing but insult and mindless comment.
--
Alan (who hates defending people he disagrees with) Hurshman,
The Spa, X-Ville.
(Halifax, Nova Scotia)
snoopy
In <01bc00dd$556e5dc0$461e...@devel1.Psychology.Dal.Ca> "Alan
Hurshman" <alan...@demosys.gcomm.com> writes:
>
>AAtchi6973 <aatch...@aol.com> wrote in article
><19970112200...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>> Methinks I hear an hysterical woman. <g>
>> Are you capable of clear thinking or just trying to espouse the
Tired,
>> Old, & Out-dated feminist rhetoric that you learned in College? But
>> judging by your inability to respond in a reasonable matter to a
person
>> who is trying to make a legitimate point....you probably didn't go
to
>> college. Your intolerance is exactly what is wrong with society.
>
>
use the word, "femi-nazi." Oh, and how is out dated to think that a
double standard for females and males is wrong? hmm? You know what's
wrong with society? People like you who jump on any woman for
believing that double standards, out-dated moral guidlines, and sexism
should be things of the past. You know,it's funny but when ppl say
things like "Out-dated femist rhetoric" I automatically think of ppl
like Rush Limbaugh who say that, "feminism is an excuse for ugly women
to feel that they're part of mainstream society." Or how about when
Pat Robertson says that, "feminism encourages women to leave their
hubands and children and become lesbians." Excuse me, but next time
you jump on someone's back for being a "feminist," remember what kind
of company you're putting yourself in.
And by the way, when did "feminism" become a dirty word? Maybe the
same day that "liberal" became one?
raff {A feminist, and proud of it}
"Buddies are we...me and the ghost usptairs."
Cassandra
In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.970112005203.21243A-100000@fraser>, Crunchy Frog
<awa...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> Pardon me, cookie? Women who are sexually confident and aggressive
> leads to women being raped & murdered? ahem, but JUST WHAT THE HELL
> CENTURY IS YOUR LOGIC IN??
The century where there are deadly sexually transmitted diseases and
dangerous people who are just as deadly. I did *not* in any fashion say
that being sexually confident leads to women being raped. I was trying to
imply that it is stupid for *anyone*, be it male or female, to get drunk
-- diminishing their response time & intellectual reaction skills -- and
put themselves in a vulnerable position with someone they have just met
and know next to nothing about. I'm more concerned about the drunk aspect
than the sexual aspect.
You're damn right this is a flame. This is
> dangerously close to a "blame the victim" attitude, and I really hope
> reality doesn't have to knock some sense into you.
This is amusing, b/c I'm about as much of a feminist as you could possibly
meet. Probably too *much* of one actually. Rape was only one possible
outcome I mentioned, and one can admit that is a possible outcome without
placing blame on anybody.
Cassandra
In article <19970112183...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
ruta...@aol.com wrote:
> And what about this man with whom she gets involved? We do know that he's
> a suspect, but does that necessarily mean he's some big dark man with evil
> intentions? Aside from his deadly tattoo, he could actually be a
> friendly, charming, thoroughly nice guy who just happens to be a suspect.
I work at a newspaper & have seen 2 publicity photos from this ep. One had
Scully being given a tattoo on the arm by someone named Comrade Svo as she
sat on a stool with her hands bound behind her as the "suspect" character
(named Ed Jerse) watched. The other had her & Ed Jerse struggling, with
him wrapping his arm around her neck from behind as she apparently tried
to simultaneously elbow him in the groin & bite him on the arm. These two
pics lead me to the belief that he's not the nicest of guys and whatever
relationship they had earlier took a turn for the worse. <g>
Mad Hamish
In article <19970111003...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
aatch...@aol.com says...
>
> I assume that he is talking about an upcoming episode; however, the
>original poster's point is well taken. Anyone (male or female) whowould
>act in that manner is deserving of criticism.
In your opinion. Other opinions differ. I have no problems with anyone doing
whatever they want provided that it doesn't hurt anyone else (unwilling if
they're into S&M).
You're judging people from a narrow viewpoint and not everyone follows that
point of view. I've met people who have open marriages, I know of a couple of
people who knowingly married prostitutes, that's their business and they know
what they're getting into.
> What makes matters worse is
>that such a display of promiscuous behavior would be inherently out of
>character for Scully.
Let's see the episode first. It is possible that she could be in a position
such that it would be reasonable.
> Shame is the best weapon of society against behavior that is harmful
>to the overall good.
How are 2 people having a good time harmful to the overall good?
A hell of a large proportion of the western world have indulged in one night
stands and the act is no real problem, possible consequences might be but
that's a different story.
Michael P. Walsh
---
---
I think this news group is getting weird (well why not?)
There is a big debate going on about a show that hasn't even been
broadcast yet, so unless any of us have particular knowledge about
what is about to be broadcast the discussions are nonsense.
We must see the show in context and see what actually happens
on the show.
The discussions of Dana Scully as Catholic seem to miss the point
that she had been away from the Church for 6 years and didn't really
go to confession to come back to the Church and change her life, she
was mainly upset by the super-natural aspects of the boy and the
killer as shown in one particular episode. Admittedly, the type
of one night stand discussed seems inconsistent with her character
as shown previously on the show.
As for the slut/saint stuff it should really be applied to the
writers who think these things up. Try to keep from getting too
emotionally involved with the characters except when you are watching
the show. Of course, when watching the show cast aside your disbelief
and emphasize with the characters and regard them for one hour as real.
Alyssa Fernandez
Nancy wrote:
>
> I agree that it would be out of character for Scully to do what has
> been suggested here, but how often are human beings totally "in
> character?" Everyone has in his or her lifetime a momentary lapse of
> reason.
I agree with your point that everyone occasionally suffers a momentary
lapse of reason, but not with the implication that a one-night stand
with a stranger would qualify for Scully as merely a momentary lapse.
IMHO, she would have to suffer a SERIES of lapses to sleep with someone
she's only just met: possibly drinking too much, involving herself with
someone she knows little or nothing about, disappearing with him to an
isolated spot. She has better reason than most to be distrustful of
strangers--she's seen numerous examples of disastrous trysts
(Genderbender and Virgil Incanto spring readily to mind), she's been
abducted, she's been targeted by the Consortium, she's had her sister
killed in her place, etc., etc.
Alyssa,
Not trying to impose my own moral judgments on other newsgroup
members--just asking them to put themselves in the shoes of cautious,
professional, Catholic Scully.
M Heikkinen
On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 sime...@delphi.com wrote:
> What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
> guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
> nite with him?
>
> Slut.
Dear friends, please forgive me if someone posted this already, but this
"Slut" post simply begs the reply:
SLUT: Woman with the morals of a man.
We now return to your usually scheduled newsgroup.
Crunchy Frog
On 12 Jan 1997, StefXF wrote:
> Crunchy Frong flamed:-
Uh, "Frog", if you please. I've never, and never will be, a Frong.
I find it to be in extremely bad taste to Frong, especially in public.
> >>Women do not get raped because they are promiscuous. Women do
> not get raped because they are sexually adventurous. Women do not get
> raped because they are drunk. Women get raped because there are people out
> there who think they should be "punished" for being anything other than
> chaste Mary-figures. And sometimes for that too. <<
>
> All those things happen to them because there are enough wicked men out
> there who will take advantage of a stupid mistake. You exort the previous
> poster to live in this century - try living in the real world yourself. It
> may mot be right. It may not be fair. BUT IT HAPPENS.
You missed the whole half of the conversation. In this particular
thread the conversation was about gender double-standards. Someone posted
(generous paraphrasing here) "what would happen if women started acting
like men? Society would crumble! Gender boundaries would collapse! Men
might start to cry!" to which Nancy added "And women would smile more.".
Then the comment about women getting raped was made. In THIS thread of
the conversation, no-one said anything about getting drunk, etc. We were
discussing that calling a woman "slut" because she decided to have sex
with someone that she just met was sexist and out-dated.
I see, however, that it was too difficult for you to keep track of
the thread of conversation without every single post being quoted in full.
My apologies for assuming that most people were following the earlier
conversation; I guess that is too much to expect sometimes.
> If you get drunk with a guy you've only just met and go back to his
> apartment while you're drunk you lay yourself open to the danger that you
> have put yourself in a situation and you have lost your ability to deal
> with any danger which might arise. Sorry, but it's a really stupid thing
> to do.
As above: we were discussing the double-standard of sexual
freedom. Not getting drunk. Sorry you missed the conversation, it was
rather interesting and fun.
> No-one has said that it's the woman's fault, so you have set up your own
> guy in order to knock it down yourself.
This sentence is making no sense to me, no matter how many times I
read it. What guy? Huh? Are you talking about a "straw man argument"?
The conversation was about, I reiterate, the imbalance in sexual
freedom alloted to men and women. The inference was made by another
poster that this might lead to women getting raped. Perhaps she as well
assumed that sexual promiscuity is related to drunkeness and loss of
control? I can't say. She never mentioned drunkeness either, so it can
easily be assumed that she was commenting on women choosing to have sex
lives that mirror what is often 'expected' of men, and this leading to
them getting raped. Which is what I was responding to.
But it IS STUPID, and Scully as
> developed so far is not that STUPID. It's stupid to walk round pretending
> there aren't dangers in the world just because it's not just or fair that
> the dangers exist. It's prudent to take reasnable precautions to avoid the
> dangers whilst getting on with your life as you want to live it. Scully is
> a prudent character. Whatever mistake she might make, getting drunk with a
> stranger and spending the night with him is not one of them.
Whatever Scully does or does not do, we were talking about gender
freedom and inequalities. Sorry to repeat it so often, but I really think
you were thinking of another conversation when you came into this one. See
if you can find the post that Nancy was responding to & that might clear
it up for you.
Sheryl Martin
GravesPA2,grav...@aol.com,Internet writes:
<<I agree totally. WE've seen Mulder in a few one nighters-- is he a
she doesn't like sex as much as the next person. Jeez, even doctors
get horny:P>>
We've seen Mulder in ONE one-nighter---as as I recall, it wasn't all that
good for him.
And liking sex has NOTHING to do with picking up a stranger and going home
with him for sexual purposes. I'm quite positive that Scully likes sex,
but she's too smart a cookie to pick up a guy and put herself in such a
dangerous position without some MAJOR motivation to do so. That is my
point.
Paula G. (who thinks that casual sex was dangerous long before AIDS)
I also think we're missing a few major points here -
first, I somehow doubt a woman who's been kidnapped by her own country (at
least from what she believes); betrayed by her superiors and who truly can't
Trust Anyone would be able to look at ANYONE as a potential sexual partner
without a great deal of trepidation...
after all, it'd be easy for CSM to fix her up with a fling and then either
blackmail her or use that person to hurt her; physically and mentally...
and while we're on the subject...
tho I really hate to kill such an interesting thread...
I have it from a Very Reliable Source that while the FIRST DRAFT of "Never
Again" did, indeed, have a short brief scene where Scully appeared (and I do
say clearly, appeared) to have had a "fling" with someone, it was IMMEDIATELY
cancelled; red-pencilled; ripped from the page by CC...
it seems that he does see Scully as the type of woman who WILL NOT be having
any fast relationship with anyone in the near future...
now, you can either regard this as truth or fiction... I'd rather trust my
source and believe that CC and Co.; including Morgan and Wong, actually know
the show and the characters and this wild rumour is fun; but false...
or you can go on with this thread - but let's not have any more panicking on
this, please...
it's so boring on the eyes...
JHMO...
Rufie710
In article <5b7e5n$c...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
jnco...@ix.netcom.com(JN Cotton) wrote:
> In <BlA2Ve1....@delphi.com> sime...@delphi.com writes:
> >
> >What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
> >guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
> >nite with him?
> >
> >Slut.
>
>
> Uh...a college student?
>
> nancy (no clever sig)
Bwahhhhahaaahahahahahah!!!!! or however it is we Gizzagrealites are
supposed to laugh.......It is so good to be back! Ruth , settling in.
--
rufie710
"I tried Reality once, I found it too confining"
laura capozzola
Sheryl Martin wrote:
>
> GravesPA2,grav...@aol.com,Internet writes:
> <<I agree totally. WE've seen Mulder in a few one nighters-- is he a
> slut?
I think "a few" may be overly generous. The man is a monk.
-Laura-
Who finally settled on a sig file she could live with...a truth quote
from a character with the greatest of moral fiber and one she knows she
will never see on "no damn poster." :~)
#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#
"The truth, the truth.....there is no truth.
These men just make it up as they go along."
- Alex Krycek (Tunguska) -
#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#
StefXF
>> Uh, "Frog", if you please. I've never, and never will be, a Frong.
I find it to be in extremely bad taste to Frong, especially in public.<<
Sorry about the Frong........
The Frongs round this way have a really bad reputation, and I would never
knowingly insinuate that anyone was indeed a Frong - it was a typo.
>>I see, however, that it was too difficult for you to keep track of
the thread of conversation without every single post being quoted in full.
My apologies for assuming that most people were following the earlier
conversation; I guess that is too much to expect sometimes. <<
I did follow the thread, and as Cassandra's comments were the ones quoted
I assumed that that was what was being criticised. If I misunderstood, I
regret that. I would point out, though, that not everyone's newsreader
retrives posts in the same way. This thread on AOL is all one, with yours
at number 36, and it certainly *is* about Scully getting drunk and
sleeping with a guy she's just met. That's exactly what Cassandra was
pointing out the danger of. If I missed the sub-thread with-a thread,
though, I'm sorry, but it seemed that Cass was being flamed for something
she didn't say.
I do believe that men can be 'sluts' - it's not a gender thing, but a
behaviour thing. Freddie Mercury characterised his behaviour that way
*himself* after all.
Stef
JN Cotton
In <cassandr-120...@dd27-158.compuserve.com>
cass...@sprynet.com (Cassandra) writes:
>
>One thing about all this that really bugs me is that if they show this
>episode after the Super Bowl as originally planned, millions of
first-time
>viewers will get the idea that Dana Scully is an unprofessional idiot
who
>gets drunk & picks up strange men in bars. Many of those first-time
>viewers will never see the show again, and that will be the impression
of
>Dana Scully they will be left with. That is a travesty, and it makes
me
>physically ill, b/c it's *so far* away from what her wonderful
character
>really is. No doubt that's why they had 2nd-thoughts about the
scheduling,
>and I can only hope they put some other ep there instead, to at least
>salvage *something*.
>
This is a point where I think we can find some common ground. Yes, we
both agree that such alleged behavior (for Scully to a) get drunk and
b) pick up some guy in a bar and sleep with him) is out of character.
Agreed. Where we differ is in the point of whether or not her character
could *ever* make that kind of mistake. You think the character never
would. I think the character could (but not easily--hence the
motivation discussion).
Where we both seem to agree is on the scheduling. Stef D. mentioned
this too, and I think both of you have a point here. Yes, I personally
would like to see Scully make a mega-mistake such as this because I
would LOVE to see what would motivate her to do so (my sadistic
nature). And I would love to see this episode that has created so much
controversy ASAP. However, I tend to agree with you that airing this
after the SuperBowl, with potentially incredible ratings, could lead
first time viewers (who don't know Scully like we know Scully) to think
this is typical behavior for her. Now, I'm hoping, as I said before,
that this "incident" (If it occurs at all) is accompained by the
requisite amount of angst and whopping dose of guilt (well, she is
Catholic ;) If that were to occur, than that could quite effectively
communicate to the audience that this isn't in keeping with this
woman's character. But then again, who knows.
A different time slot would probably be better from our perspective,
but given the number of male viewers watching Post-Super Bowl stuff,
I'm betting Fox would see this kind of episode as a real "draw" for
that audience.
Nancy (no clever sig)
JN Cotton
In <128457100...@tvo.org> Sheryl...@tvo.org (Sheryl Martin)
writes:
>and while we're on the subject...
>tho I really hate to kill such an interesting thread...
>
>I have it from a Very Reliable Source that while the FIRST DRAFT of
"Never
>Again" did, indeed, have a short brief scene where Scully appeared
(and I do
>say clearly, appeared) to have had a "fling" with someone, it was
IMMEDIATELY
>cancelled; red-pencilled; ripped from the page by CC...
>it seems that he does see Scully as the type of woman who WILL NOT be
having
>any fast relationship with anyone in the near future...
Sure. Fine. Whatever. Go ahead and kill all of our fun, Sheryl! <VBG>
;)
nancy (no clever sig)
Wanderers
I too am a feminist. I happen to be straight. I am also liberal minded
(in the Canadian sense, that is -- mostly because I am never sure how
Americans define the word).
And I have no intention of leaving my husband & family and becoming a
lesbian (no matter how tempting that may seem sometimes).
Bryn
Following the Truth to Sunday nights but not staying if Scully isn't.
Mad Hamish
In article <BlA2Ve1....@delphi.com>, sime...@delphi.com says...
>
>What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
>guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
>nite with him?
>
>Slut.
What do you call a guy who takes home a woman he's just met and has sex with
her? A real man?
Get over it. If it's good for the gander it's good for the goose.
If you call Scully a slut what do you call Mulder for doing it with the blood
fetisist in 2nd (? or 3rd) season?
R. Scott Carr
StefXF wrote:
<snip>
> My problem with this is that it is so appallingly out-of-character that I
> don't think there's any way the greatest writers in the world could make
> it credible, let alone Morgan and Wong.
>
> Remember, Morgan told us to be 'very afraid', and if this is true that
> Scully gets drunk and has sex with a bloke she's just picked up then I
> think they have done a grave injustice to the character of Dana Scully.
>
> Morgan and Wong wrote '3', remember. They apparently think it's okay to
> have sex with someone you've only just met. There are a great many people,
> previous poster and myself included, who do not agree, and who do not
> think the character of Scully as presented to us for 3 1/2 years would
> agree or behave like that either.
>
> There are indeed Scully issues to be addressed, and any exploration of
> them would be welcome, but there was absolutely no need to destroy the
> character in doing it.
>
> Hopefully the poster is incorrect or exaggerating, because they're going
> to lose viewers and destroy respect for the wonderful character they've
> created if indeed this is what they have chosen to inflict on this
> character as their final goodbye to XF.
>
> Stef
May I support your case? If this scenario, whether explicit or implied,
plays out as people seem to fear, it would be a wretched mistake of the
first order. First, as several people have said, Scully has shown
herself to be rather cautious and self-controlled, so the idea of her
just picking someone up in a bar for a night of passion is hard to
swallow. It would be extremely out of character, even in isolation.
Second, whether Chris Carter wants to acknowledge it or not, the X-Files
writers have written an implicit relationship between M&S that this
scenario does not jibe with. Consider that despite Mulder's many
provocations, Scully has devoted herself to him to a tremendous extent.
She has taken appalling risks for him, she has traveled all over the
country to save him from his own recklessness, and she has even lied and
violated FBI regulations for him (which for her is in some ways a bigger
deal than risking her life). In addition, there have been many episodes
where a romantic connection between M&S is strongly implied. Yes, it
has been ambiguous, but for 3 and 1/2 years it has been sufficiently
evident that, though it is not explicit, it is very believable. In
episodes such as "Beyond the Sea," "Tooms," "One Breath," and "Pusher,"
we are shown very strong indicators of romance. In episodes such as
"Fire," "Genderbender," and "Syzygy," we see the flip side of romance --
jealousy. This rumored scenario about Scully just does not track with
their relationship. If CC and co do not want to make the romance
explicit, surely they could afford to not deny it outright, no?
My gut feeling is that this rumor has grown quite a bit in the telling,
but I can also believe that something untoward will be implied, because
I would not put it past TPTB to mess with the audience's minds (as they
did in a mild way with the infamous Mulder-Uniblonde scene, aka the
implicit three-minute work-out). However, as is pointed out above,
wrecking one of the best characters in television as a final yank on the
chains of the 'shipper crowd (and other X-philes, I suspect) would be a
bit of writer's vandalism that Morgan and Wong will surely be castigated
for. And if this rumor is true, than "Never Again" will be too soon.
CC, are you listening? If these rumors are true, it's not too late to
take this episode and throw it into the dumpster. A re-run would be
preferable to tearing down what has been so carefully crafted over three
and a half seasons.
SC
AAtchi6973
Methinks I hear an hysterical woman. <g>
Are you capable of clear thinking or just trying to espouse the Tired,
Old, & Out-dated feminist rhetoric that you learned in College? But
judging by your inability to respond in a reasonable matter to a person
who is trying to make a legitimate point....you probably didn't go to
college. Your intolerance is exactly what is wrong with society.
Life isn't SAFE. Life isn't FAIR. Some men are bad. Anyone that chooses
to IGNORE these facts is foolish or worse....
Alan
Please excuse the AOL address. I only joined to get unlimited access to Air Warrior!
Steve Ferencik
Sheryl Martin wrote:
>
> GravesPA2,grav...@aol.com,Internet writes:
> <<I agree totally. WE've seen Mulder in a few one nighters-- is he a
> she doesn't like sex as much as the next person. Jeez, even doctors
> get horny:P>>
>
> We've seen Mulder in ONE one-nighter---as as I recall, it wasn't all that
> good for him.
>
> And liking sex has NOTHING to do with picking up a stranger and going home
> with him for sexual purposes. I'm quite positive that Scully likes sex,
> but she's too smart a cookie to pick up a guy and put herself in such a
> dangerous position without some MAJOR motivation to do so. That is my
> point.
>
> Paula G. (who thinks that casual sex was dangerous long before AIDS)
>
> I also think we're missing a few major points here -
> first, I somehow doubt a woman who's been kidnapped by her own country (at
> least from what she believes); betrayed by her superiors and who truly can't
> Trust Anyone would be able to look at ANYONE as a potential sexual partner
> without a great deal of trepidation...
> after all, it'd be easy for CSM to fix her up with a fling and then either
> blackmail her or use that person to hurt her; physically and mentally...
>
> tho I really hate to kill such an interesting thread...
>
> I have it from a Very Reliable Source that while the FIRST DRAFT of "Never
> Again" did, indeed, have a short brief scene where Scully appeared (and I do
> say clearly, appeared) to have had a "fling" with someone, it was IMMEDIATELY
> cancelled; red-pencilled; ripped from the page by CC...
> it seems that he does see Scully as the type of woman who WILL NOT be having
> any fast relationship with anyone in the near future...
> source and believe that CC and Co.; including Morgan and Wong, actually know
> the show and the characters and this wild rumour is fun; but false...
> or you can go on with this thread - but let's not have any more panicking on
> this, please...
> it's so boring on the eyes...
> JHMO...
Well, I'm with Red Crow. Where are y'all getting this? And why should
the poor girl sit at home all the time waiting for FM to call? Just
curious.
Cassandra
In article <5bavrt$c...@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>,
jnco...@ix.netcom.com(JN Cotton) wrote:
>
> This is a point where I think we can find some common ground. Yes, we
> both agree that such alleged behavior (for Scully to a) get drunk and
> b) pick up some guy in a bar and sleep with him) is out of character.
> Agreed. Where we differ is in the point of whether or not her character
> could *ever* make that kind of mistake. You think the character never
> would. I think the character could (but not easily--hence the
> motivation discussion).
I try never to say "never"! <g> So I wouldn't say she never would. As I
think I said somewhere, it would take one HELL of a motivation for me to
buy it. Right now I can only think of one that would be remotely
believable to me: if they tied it in with her health fears as a result of
her abduction, which is apparently going to come into play shortly. If she
thought she were going to die, it would not cross my line of believability
that she might wig out and do incredibly out-of-character stuff like she's
supposedly going to do. I don't know that I think it would inevitably lead
to such behavior, but I could *buy* it. That could actually make for some
really interesting developments. I think it would take a *lot* of
motivation for her actions in this ep; I don't think it would just happen
b/c of trouble with Mulder or her job, however long it had been building.
> Where we both seem to agree is on the scheduling. Stef D. mentioned
> this too, and I think both of you have a point here. Yes, I personally
> would like to see Scully make a mega-mistake such as this because I
> would LOVE to see what would motivate her to do so (my sadistic
> nature). And I would love to see this episode that has created so much
> controversy ASAP. However, I tend to agree with you that airing this
> after the SuperBowl, with potentially incredible ratings, could lead
> first time viewers (who don't know Scully like we know Scully) to think
> this is typical behavior for her. Now, I'm hoping, as I said before,
> that this "incident" (If it occurs at all) is accompained by the
> requisite amount of angst and whopping dose of guilt (well, she is
> Catholic ;) If that were to occur, than that could quite effectively
> communicate to the audience that this isn't in keeping with this
> woman's character. But then again, who knows.
>
> A different time slot would probably be better from our perspective,
> but given the number of male viewers watching Post-Super Bowl stuff,
> I'm betting Fox would see this kind of episode as a real "draw" for
> that audience.
And that troubles me greatly, too. But I take some comfort at least in
knowing that there *have* apparently been second thoughts about the
scheduling, whether on the part of FOX or 1013 (I'm not sure who would
make the final call).
--
laural
I haven't chimed in on this one yet, really isn't much need.
Everyone has defined both sides so well:
[Let her have fun] vs. [She would never do such a thing.]
But I did want to mention just two other things.
1.) Why is it very, VERY, few of us have jumped on the original
fact that if Scully ends up in that bar, drunk, and picking up
a guy, it will be *after* (as I remember the original post
said) Mulder sleeps with the Uniblonde and loses interest
in the *work*? Did this senario bother no one?
Back when Scully was missing and Mulder truely felt
he might never see her again, he slept with Kristen. Did
we see it as "out of character"?
Wasn't it? And when he fell back into the arms of
Phoebe, wasn't it unlikely that he would do something
like that DURING a case? Not to mention the fact they
planned it for a night when she and he were to be keeping
watch over the Marsden family.
I'm just curious as to whether we have allowed the "double-
standard" we all have been screaming about (re: Scully) to
exist in order to explain away Mulder's actions?
and [this one is a little less intense]
2.) I have counted at least 23 posts (since friday alone) with
the header "Dana Scully:Slut". It has made me cringe to
imagine if GA were to be at a coffee bar/internet provider
with friends and they log on to this ng just for grins.
And what do they all see? Post after post saying her
character is a slut. Here's hoping she and friends would
be curious enough to read some of them, seeing the
header is a misnomer.
That's all. Just some brain cells that floated out my ears and
into my computer.
~laural~
JN Cotton
In <32D926...@pacbell.net> "Michael P. Walsh"
<mp_w...@pacbell.net> writes:
>
>---
>I think this news group is getting weird (well why not?)
>
>There is a big debate going on about a show that hasn't even been
>broadcast yet, so unless any of us have particular knowledge about
>what is about to be broadcast the discussions are nonsense.
The XF newsgroup getting "weird."? TEE-HEE!!!! ;)
Like ANY of this is normal???? <JK>
Seems from my tenure here, discussing rumors and supposed "what ifs" is
pretty darn typical around these parts. To paraphrase from "King of the
Hill" (which I really enjoyed tonight): "Where you from, boy?"
Just kidding. Couldn't resist.
nancy (no clever sig)
Sheryl Martin
Actually, has anyone ever actually READ the pilot script; or looked at the
"young readers" version of the Pilot?
Scully originally had a lover - there was a scene in the script that I do
happen to have that has her answering the phone while in bed with Ethan, a
Congressional Lobbyiest (sp?)...
of course that was kinda dropped from the show before it was shot or aired...
'Nuff said.
Brandon Ray
In note <32D8A2...@olywa.net>, Fogg writes:
>
>> One thing about all this that really bugs me is that if they show this
>> episode after the Super Bowl as originally planned, millions of first-time
>> viewers will get the idea that Dana Scully is an unprofessional idiot who
>> gets drunk & picks up strange men in bars. Many of those first-time
>> viewers will never see the show again, and that will be the impression of
>> Dana Scully they will be left with. That is a travesty, and it makes me
>> physically ill, b/c it's *so far* away from what her wonderful character
>> really is. No doubt that's why they had 2nd-thoughts about the scheduling,
>> and I can only hope they put some other ep there instead, to at least
>> salvage *something*.
>
>lunkheads into watching XF this way? I think they would find the show
>uninteresting. Not to offend any "real" football/XF fans out there! And
>interesting discussion, let us also remember that Dana is Catholic.
>the author (sime...@delphi.com) of the original message anyway?
>
>Katy in Whoville
>
I know plenty of Catholics who have had sex outside of marriage.
I really don't understand this whole argument -- some of you are acting as if
sleeping with someone you aren't married (or at least committed) to is the
ultimate sin. How silly! As has been pointed out by others -- Mulder did it.
Skinner did it. Why should Scully be immune to normal human sex drives?
Sheesh.
Here's a quick quiz (be honest): Of those complaining about this reported
story line, how many of you have had or have seriously considered having sex
outside of marriage? Are you all as "pure" as you claim Scully is? Or are
you just a bunch of hypocrites? And a second question: How many people
reading this thread REALLY think that Dana Scully, with her age and
experience, is still a virgin?
But if you insist on perverting sex into a sin, you might at least consider
the possibility that she is somehow bewitched by some paranormal phenomenon.
This IS the X-Files. Or for that matter...anyone here want to defend the
proposition that CSM and his gang are above using the date-rape drug on
Scully, if they thought it was to their advantage?
Best yet -- let's wait until we see the episode before we start condemning
anyone so sanctimoniously.
---
******************************************************************************
"Fifty years ago,when I was born...it was unimaginable that someone like me
could have ever become President of the greatest country in human history."
William Jefferson Clinton, 11/5/96
You said it, Bill -- not me.
******************************************************************************
cha...@aol.com
In article <19970111204...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
jmorr...@aol.com (JMorris830) writes:
> But I mean, let's wait until "Never Again" actually premieres before
we
>cast stones at CC, 'kay?
>
>
Gotta agree here ... it never ceases to amaze me all the irate judgement
calls and demeaning comments that are made about episodes that are
sometimes weeks and weeks away ... and even though criticism is valuable
in many situations ... it has to be constructive criticism to be valid ...
I have never seen a group of people who love a show so much vacillate from
one end of the spectrum to the other when it comes to criticizing it ...
really makes you wonder sometimes
This is merely an observation - not a flame ...
Barbara
LDoone1
<<1.) Why is it very, VERY, few of us have jumped on the original
fact that if Scully ends up in that bar, drunk, and picking up
a guy, it will be *after* (as I remember the original post
said) Mulder sleeps with the Uniblonde and loses interest
in the *work*? Did this senario bother no one?>>
I don't believe this is the case. The "Mulder sleeps with the Uniblonde"
rumor has not been associated with this episode. If these two scenarios
were linked, I would still consider Scully's behavior fairly stupid...what
shall we call this -- retaliatory screwing? And I continue to believe
that Scully Acting Recklessly is not a characteristic we've seen displayed
over the life of this series.
<< Back when Scully was missing and Mulder truely felt
he might never see her again, he slept with Kristen. Did
we see it as "out of character"?
Wasn't it?>>
I don't consider Mulder's behavior in "3" any less stupid or reckless than
the purported behavior of Scully that we'll see in Never Again, but we've
seen Mulder behave recklessly and stupidly from the beginning. You place
a ufo or one of his other sought after paranormal phenomenon and all
Mulder's blood rushes to another part of his anatomy and he becomes
Stupid/Reckless personified -- the examples would be too numerous to
mention, but his behavior in Paper Hearts, for instance, is merely the
latest example of Mulder not thinking about the possible ramifications of
his actions.
<< And when he fell back into the arms of
Phoebe, wasn't it unlikely that he would do something
like that DURING a case? Not to mention the fact they
planned it for a night when she and he were to be keeping
watch over the Marsden family.>>
Yet another example of RecklessMulder. Interestingly, I've always viewed
Scully's reaction to Phoebe and Mulder falling all over each other as less
jealousy on her part, than extreme frustration and annoyance that Mulder
and Phoebe were too busy toying with each other to do the real work needed
to solve the case. It should be recalled that Fire is one of the few
cases where it is quite clear that Scully solved this case and that Mulder
was totally worthless.
<<I'm just curious as to whether we have allowed the "double-
standard" we all have been screaming about (re: Scully) to
exist in order to explain away Mulder's actions?>>
I don't view this as a double standard...we've been shown two different
characters with two different personality types who behave differently.
<<.) I have counted at least 23 posts (since friday alone) with
the header "Dana Scully:Slut".>>
This has been unfortunate. The use of a perjorative term such as "slut"
isn't very enlightening and usually just inflames opinions. I suspect it
was used purposefully to merely reflect the poste'rs disgust with an
uncharacteristic depiction of Dana Scully. I feel that way, too, but I'm
more upset at the possibility that the writer's have not really created
sufficient motivation to make this uncharacteristic behavior believable.
We will, however, have to wait and see.
<< It has made me cringe to
imagine if GA were to be at a coffee bar/internet provider
with friends and they log on to this ng just for grins.
And what do they all see? Post after post saying her
character is a slut.>>
I really think, given the sense of humor that she has displayed in her
interviews, that she'd think it was a hoot. :)
Lorna
LDo...@aol.com
Tsalagi
>I came across this interresting debate I felt compelled to respond. It
>has always been my understanding that CC intentionally omitted the
>personal lives of the shows characters to add just a bit more mystery to
>the show. With the few glimpses of the off-the-clock Dana that we have
>been given, I can't tell you what would be "in" or "out" of character
>for her. For all we know, getting drunk and taking someone home with her
>may be a commonplace. I can't equate how someone conducts themselves at
>work with how they might act on thier own time. Though I must agree that
>if this episode is aired to give us a greater insight to Dana's world
>and the pressures she's under, then I says "bravo". But if it is
>presented to boost ratings and is gratuitous in nature, then count me
>out.
>
> J. Hurt
achase
In article <19970113035...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
cha...@aol.com wrote:
> In article <19970111204...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> jmorr...@aol.com (JMorris830) writes:
>
>
> > But I mean, let's wait until "Never Again" actually premieres before
> we
> >cast stones at CC, 'kay?
> Gotta agree here ... it never ceases to amaze me all the irate judgment
> calls and demeaning comments that are made about episodes that are
> sometimes weeks and weeks away ... and even though criticism is valuable
> in many situations ... it has to be constructive criticism to be valid ...
> I have never seen a group of people who love a show so much vacillate from
> one end of the spectrum to the other when it comes to criticizing it ...
> really makes you wonder sometimes
>
> This is merely an observation - not a flame ...
>
> Barbara
There is just a certain person here who is an alarmist. This person has
some source of "inside information" and overreacts when this "inside
information" doesn't agree with his/her particular vision of what the
X-Files should be. This person then gets all sorts of other people, who
are either too new here to have any perspective (or too dumb to ever get
any), all worked up over rumors and speculations. I agree it is
interesting to hear advance info on upcoming episodes. However, IMO, it
is very boring to see these repeated hyperventilations over episodes that
have not yet aired. Let's talk once we've seen the episodes, okay?
--anne
Brandon Ray
In note <19970112100...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ste...@aol.com
>>> And may I say that while the topic of Scully's character has made for
>interesting discussion, let us also remember that Dana is Catholic.
>Would she really just throw away her values like that? <<
>
>
marriage than anyone else. I'm thinking over my Catholic friends, and I don't
think ANY of them arrived at the marriage alter as virgins.
>But the writers don't seem to care for consistency of character as much as
>exploring a particlar idea in a script no matter *what* injustice it does
>to the character or characters involved.
>
I think I've finally figured this thread out -- Scully in a way serves as a
"mother" figure on this show -- she makes sure Mulder wears his booties,
doesn't stay out too later, etc., and forgives him and serves him milk and
cookies when he strays. As a mother figure, some of the less mature fans of
the show cannot tolerate the idea that she might also be an adult, with normal
adult drives (such as sex drives).
It all becomes clear....
>Stef
ron...@aa.net
On 12 Jan 1997 22:18:17 GMT, h_l...@postoffice.sandybay.utas.edu.au
(Mad Hamish) wrote:
>****************************************************************************
>The Politician's Slogan
>'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
>of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
>Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
>****************************************************************************
>Mad Hamish
>Hamish Laws
>h_l...@postoffice.sandybay.utas.edu.au
>
I thought it was " you can fool some of the people, some of the time
and jerk the rest off"......... ;P
**************trib to gizzie*****************;>
ronin's exotic massage and casino parlour,
spin the wheel and rub er roll the dice
DD: Its more comfortable in a Futon...
this weeks special, free casino cash for play...
LISA LOISELLE
In article <achase-1301...@achase.geo.arizona.edu>,
Anne: Please don't go about coyly pointing fingers. It's rude, and
makes you appear small by saying...'a certain person...'. Take it up
with them privately, OK? And obviously this thread is specualtion(some
more alarmist than others), and if you don't like it, don't participate, OK?
I ahve no problem with you or your opinions. Just please don't be mean
about them, OK?
Lisa
...who has been the recipient of finger-pointing before... NO FUN
Andromeda
BTW, they must have shot it or I wouldn't have seen it :)
Andromeda
though, he was under the covers, with his back to the camera.
LISA LOISELLE
I didn't want to join the fray, but I WILL. I think the arguement is
getting a bit off-kilter. I don't think it's about the Saint/Slut
controversy, or about Catholicism, or about the double standard, or about
whether Scully has a sex drive(she certainly has). it's about
CHARACTERIZATION.
No doubt Scully has a sex drive, as all(or most :)) humans do. No doubt
the poor girl probably wants a 'date'. But she simply has not been
portrayed as the type to sleep with a person she has just met. She has
almost always been ruled by her *head*, not her heart(or her glands, if
you will). I do not decry those who do sleep with people they just met,
it's a matter of choice. But Scully is not the type to do so. Period.
It's completely out of character unless there are some extreme
circumstances surrounding the act(and there may be. This is all
specualtion, right?)
So what it boils down to for me is a lack of integrity with the
character. The one-night stand with a person I don't know thing is VERY
Un-Scully, at least the way she's been shown for the past 3 1/2 seasons.
I hope the writers have considered carefully character integrity before
making a desperate ratings-grab due to the plethora of post-Superbowl
testosterone.
Lisa
... brain aneurysm.... imminent....
Chris Wafer
> "Old and out-dated feminst rhetoric"? I'm shocked that you didn't
> use the word, "femi-nazi." Oh, and how is out dated to think that a
> double standard for females and males is wrong? hmm? You know what's
> wrong with society? People like you who jump on any woman for
> believing that double standards, out-dated moral guidlines, and sexism
> should be things of the past. You know,it's funny but when ppl say
> things like "Out-dated femist rhetoric" I automatically think of ppl
> like Rush Limbaugh who say that, "feminism is an excuse for ugly women
> to feel that they're part of mainstream society." Or how about when
> Pat Robertson says that, "feminism encourages women to leave their
> hubands and children and become lesbians." Excuse me, but next time
> you jump on someone's back for being a "feminist," remember what kind
> of company you're putting yourself in.
> And by the way, when did "feminism" become a dirty word? Maybe the
> same day that "liberal" became one?
>
> raff {A feminist, and proud of it}
> "Buddies are we...me and the ghost usptairs."
What's wrong with being associated with Pat Robertson and Rush Limbaugh?
You could do a lot worse.
Chris Wafer
GravesPA2
<<I think I've finally figured this thread out -- Scully in a way serves
as a
"mother" figure on this show -- she makes sure Mulder wears his booties,
doesn't stay out too later, etc., and forgives him and serves him milk and
cookies when he strays. As a mother figure, some of the less mature fans
of
the show cannot tolerate the idea that she might also be an adult, with
normal
adult drives (such as sex drives).>>
Try again. I happen to see Scully as a strong, independent, sexually
confident woman who also has standards that she has set for herself in
regards to sexual activity. She does NOT forgive Mulder's "straying"---he
hasn't strayed. (His only sexual liaison on the show was under extremely
extenuating circumstances, he paid a price for it, and I seriously doubt
Scully knows anything about it). And there are many people (not including
me) who would say that she has no right to feel betrayed by anything
Mulder does in his personal life, so how could she "serve him milk and
cookies when he strays"? Or are you talking about straying
professionally? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
I believe that my view of Scully is borne out in the 3 1/2 years of
episodes I have watched---and I have watched them all, most of them
several times apiece. Having a sex drive does NOT mean that you are
unable to CONTROL that sex drive. The times we have witnessed Scully
dealing with the concept of sex, while rare, have indicated a more
conservative viewpoint on the subject, at least in terms of what behavior
she considers to be appropriate between strangers. Her reaction to
Skinner's tryst in "Avatar" and her embarrassment about her own behavior
in "GenderBender" would indicate that quick intimacy with a stranger is
not something she'd enter into without highly extenuating circumstances.
This does not mean that she is a madonna figure of any sort. I have no
trouble seeing Scully as being a very passionate, sensual woman in the
arms of a man she loved and trusted. I just have trouble seeing her
trusting a stranger enough to make herself vulnerable to him, especially
considering the dangerous life she leads as Mulder's partner.
I haven't seen ANYONE in these threads suggest that Scully is asexual or
should remain virginal on the show. The subject in question is, given the
scenario presented (whether this is a true scenario or a false one), do we
believe that Scully would act in a given manner? That's been the source
of debate, and if only the flaming would stay out of the way, I'd find
this a rather interesting bit of discourse.
But don't suggest I am immature (I'm not; I'm 33 years old and quite
capable of making reasoned judgments based on objective observation) just
because I happen to think that such action on the part of Scully would be
out of character. I'm basing that on my own studied observations of the
character. You don't have to agree with me, but I DO ask that you respect
my right to make such a judgment as much as I respect yours to make a
contrary judgment.
This is actually an interesting subject----a "What if" kind of thread that
could be revelatory and enlightening if only we'd conduct it in a more
respectful, civilized manner.
Paula G.
GravesPA2
'Red Crow' XVille's resident Hippie.
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.97011...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>,
M Heikkinen <mi...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> writes
>Dear friends, please forgive me if someone posted this already, but this
>"Slut" post simply begs the reply:
>
>SLUT: Woman with the morals of a man.
>
>We now return to your usually scheduled newsgroup.
>
>
>Kim mi...@csd.uwm.edu
Now this is a person with girl power!!!! You go girl!!
Love.xxxx
--
'Red Crow' XVille's resident Hippie,
And co-captain of the Tooms cheerleading squad.
jofi...@comnet.pt
What's troubleing you is... that never happened to you. Get real.
--
Joao Filipe
Portugal |
/|
/ |
/ |\
/ | \
/ | \
/ |por\
/ | \
/ | \
/ | \
/_________|_______\
__________________|_________\__
(_________...@ComNet.pt__/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
lyo...@sky2.bskyb.com
In article <01bc0260$e01f12a0$3e9e2a80@chriswafer>,
Like who? Hitler?
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
lyo...@sky2.bskyb.com
In article <5bbold$1...@franklin.its.utas.edu.au>,
h_l...@postoffice.sandybay.utas.edu.au (Mad Hamish) wrote:
>
> In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.970112005203.21243A-100000@fraser>, awa...@sfu.ca
> says...
> > Pardon me, cookie? Women who are sexually confident and aggressive
> >leads to women being raped & murdered?
>
> Well it shouldn't. Whether it contributes or not is another question, it
> depends upon the behaviour of the individual woman involved as to whether she
> puts herself in more danger of being raped, i.e. wandering through dark
> streets alone is _bloody_stupid_for_everyone_.
>
> I believe that committing rape is disgusting (I favour castration at the neck
> for it in most cases) _but_ that doesn't mean that if someone doesn't think
> about the risks involved in their actions that it's reasonable to ignore
> warning them. It is (for example)_stupid_ to wander through the streets alone
> wearing something sexy, it is _no_excuse_ for rape but it's still stupid. In
> a perfect world they'd be safe, this is a long way from a perfect world.
>
> > ahem, but JUST WHAT THE HELL
> >CENTURY IS YOUR LOGIC IN?? You're damn right this is a flame. This is
> >dangerously close to a "blame the victim" attitude, and I really hope
> >reality doesn't have to knock some sense into you.
>
> Hold on there! Just because somebody is pointing out that it is a real risk
> doesn't mean that they agree with the causes of it being risky.
> >
> > Women do not get raped because they are promiscuous. Women do
> >not get raped because they are sexually adventurous. Women do not get
> >raped because they are drunk. Women get raped because there are people out
> >there who think they should be "punished" for being anything other than
> >chaste Mary-figures. And sometimes for that too.
> >
> Well I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist however my _understanding_ of the
> issue is that most of the experts believe that rape is based on a desire for
> the person to express control.
> --
> *
I think everyone is forgetting the fact that rape often occurs with someone whom
the victim knows. It is most often the case that the rapist is a familiar person
and not a complete stranger, either met in a bar or encountered walking home
from the supermarket.
So it really has little to do with people being in 'dangerous' situations, by
being drunk or drugged or wandering about in the dark, and more to do with rape
being much closer to home, and quite unavoidable. If you can get raped lying in
your own bed with all the doors locked and your dog asleep in the kitchen, then
I don't think you can profile the 'type' of woman who gets raped. These days the
'risky behaviour/situation' is simply that of being a woman.
Pamela T. Pon
Mac Nooge <rmnu...@is2.dal.ca> wrote:
>JN Cotton wrote:
>>I agree that it would be out of character for Scully to do what has
>>been suggested here, but how often are human beings totally "in
>>character?" Everyone has in his or her lifetime a momentary lapse of reason.
Yep. I don't think Skinner normally goes around having one-night stands
with women he meets in bars, or that Mulder often lets blood-drinking murder
suspects shave him-- but during a period of extreme emotional turmoil,
who knows?
>>Given that St. Scully has been nearly flawless in 3.5 years
>>(Biased? Me???:) ), I think we are overdue to see her make a mistake. I
>>also think that, given Scully's character, this type of mistake would
>>be accompanied hand in hand with a good dose of Scully angst and
>>self-inflicted guilt, don't you think?
;-) I hope she only feels guilty if there's a good reason to.
As far as relationships go ... IMHO Jack Willis could qualify as a
mistake. I know we didn't get to see him at his best, but still -- getting
involved with your *instructor*??? Ok, maybe if he's Dr. Samuel Beckett
or Prof. "Indiana" Jones or a reeeeeally cute English Lit. grad student,
it might be worth it -- but Jack Willis?! Boring at best; a big fat
Neutral on the physical attractiveness scale; a domineering jerk at worst.
If we're talking mistakes, which is worse: a prolonged affair with
her *instructor*, who also happened to be a control freak -- or an admitted
1-night stand with yummmmmola Cooper Hawkes/Rodney Rowland? (Assuming the
same methods of protection were used or not used in both cases, of course.)
Wasting months of her life emotionally -- or just one night physically?
(... and why does Mulder get gorgeous British big-name actress
Amanda Pays to play his ex, while Scully gets ... whoever he was.
Someone even remotely attractive would have been nice!)
>Of course I don't understand this whole human hang-up with mating, but I
>feel compelled to point our that our Blessed Saint has already made at
>least one mistake in the course of the show, one which I'm certain has
>kept her up many a night thinking, "Why? Why? WHY didn't I find
>SOMEBODY, ANYBODY, to babysit so that I didn't have to take my poor
>innocent Quuqeug out to become Nessie bait?"
Well -- if QQ hadn't gone and slipped the leash she'd so dutifully and
responsibly attached to him and run off TOWARDS the sound/smell of a very
big, very vicious PREDATOR ...! ;-D
He could just as well have met his end while being babysat by
Scully's mom -- eg. by slipping his leash & running out into heavy traffic.
>-Beagle
>(Also thinking that if she'd had a wiser and more cowardly breed of dog
>like myself she wouldn't have to be having those thoughts...*sigh* SYDs.
>What can you do?)
Quite true. Curious: would a Beagle have resorted to eating its deceased
mistress after only a day or two without dog food?
>Director, Queeuqeg Memorial Small Yappy Dog Rest Home/Bait Shop
>"Protecting the SYDs from themselves and Nessie"
I didn't know Small Yappy Dogs were *capable* of resting (as opposed to
yapping, jumping, and running about insanely) as long as they were alive.
... uhhh ... hey ... what exactly IS that Bait made from?
*** pamela pon p...@best.com {very behind on e-mail; please POST replies} ***
There is a God: two more seasons of DUE SOUTH! for news see alt.tv.due-south
Help do the same for SPACE: ABOVE & BEYOND! http://www.planetx.com/space:aab
***** Ride Forever **** Do or Die **** Thank you kindly **** SEMPER FI *****
JN Cotton
In <cassandr-150...@hd39-038.compuserve.com>
>> respectful, civilized manner.
>
>Bravo, Paula, and thank you for saying this so very well! [Insert much
>clapping here.] This is *exactly* the point I've been trying to
address.
>To borrow an extremely overused phrase from a couple of elections ago,
>"It's The Characterization, Stupid!" <g> From everything I have seen
on
>the show, Dana Katherine Scully is a very controlled, responsible
person
>who does not trust easily.
The only point here I take issue with is "trust." True, I think after
all St. Scully has been through her trust factor has grown a little
dim. But it seems that the initial Scully we saw was fairly trusting.
She obviously trusted in her superiors, her government, her friends
(Tom Colton I'm thinking), and even Mulder (in the pilot) who she did
not know well. She may only "trust" Mulder now, but I don't think she
started out that way.
Nancy (no clever sig)
Denise A. Agnew
In article <853181013-0-8950@arthur>, Brandon Ray
<Pub...@panda.uiowa.edu> writes
>In note <32D8A2...@olywa.net>, Fogg writes:
>>Cassandra wrote:
>>
>>> One thing about all this that really bugs me is that if they show this
>>> episode after the Super Bowl as originally planned, millions of first-time
>>> viewers will get the idea that Dana Scully is an unprofessional idiot who
>>> gets drunk & picks up strange men in bars. Many of those first-time
>>> viewers will never see the show again, and that will be the impression of
>>> Dana Scully they will be left with. That is a travesty, and it makes me
>>> physically ill, b/c it's *so far* away from what her wonderful character
>>> really is. No doubt that's why they had 2nd-thoughts about the scheduling,
>>> and I can only hope they put some other ep there instead, to at least
>>> salvage *something*.
>>
>>Do you really think that the network would try to lure these kinds of
>>lunkheads into watching XF this way? I think they would find the show
>>interesting discussion, let us also remember that Dana is Catholic.
>>the author (sime...@delphi.com) of the original message anyway?
>>
>>Katy in Whoville
>>
>I know plenty of Catholics who have had sex outside of marriage.
>
>I really don't understand this whole argument -- some of you are acting as if
>sleeping with someone you aren't married (or at least committed) to is the
>ultimate sin. How silly! As has been pointed out by others -- Mulder did it.
> Skinner did it. Why should Scully be immune to normal human sex drives?
>Sheesh.
>
>Here's a quick quiz (be honest): Of those complaining about this reported
>story line, how many of you have had or have seriously considered having sex
>outside of marriage? Are you all as "pure" as you claim Scully is? Or are
>you just a bunch of hypocrites? And a second question: How many people
>reading this thread REALLY think that Dana Scully, with her age and
>experience, is still a virgin?
>
>But if you insist on perverting sex into a sin, you might at least consider
>the possibility that she is somehow bewitched by some paranormal phenomenon.
>This IS the X-Files. Or for that matter...anyone here want to defend the
>proposition that CSM and his gang are above using the date-rape drug on
>Scully, if they thought it was to their advantage?
>
>Best yet -- let's wait until we see the episode before we start condemning
>anyone so sanctimoniously.
>******************************************************************************
>
>"Fifty years ago,when I was born...it was unimaginable that someone like me
>could have ever become President of the greatest country in human history."
> William Jefferson Clinton, 11/5/96
>
>You said it, Bill -- not me.
>
>******************************************************************************
>
nor would I expect most people are anymore. I don't begrude anyone for
staying a virgin until they get married if that is what they want. I
don't think I'd die if they had an episode where Scully got some
attention from a man that lead to a physical relationship, but I think
if it was for an X-File reason like possession or something that would
make it even more interesting. And never in a million years would I
consider sex a sin. :)
--
Denise A. Agnew
Brandon Ray
In note <01bc0260$e01f12a0$3e9e2a80@chriswafer>, "Chris Wafer" writes:
>> "Old and out-dated feminst rhetoric"? I'm shocked that you didn't
>> use the word, "femi-nazi." Oh, and how is out dated to think that a
>> double standard for females and males is wrong? hmm? You know what's
>> wrong with society? People like you who jump on any woman for
>> believing that double standards, out-dated moral guidlines, and sexism
>> should be things of the past. You know,it's funny but when ppl say
>> things like "Out-dated femist rhetoric" I automatically think of ppl
>> like Rush Limbaugh who say that, "feminism is an excuse for ugly women
>> to feel that they're part of mainstream society." Or how about when
>> Pat Robertson says that, "feminism encourages women to leave their
>> hubands and children and become lesbians." Excuse me, but next time
>> you jump on someone's back for being a "feminist," remember what kind
>> of company you're putting yourself in.
>> And by the way, when did "feminism" become a dirty word? Maybe the
>> same day that "liberal" became one?
>>
>> raff {A feminist, and proud of it}
>> "Buddies are we...me and the ghost usptairs."
>
>What's wrong with being associated with Pat Robertson and Rush Limbaugh?
>You could do a lot worse.
>
hide the family silver...
>Chris Wafer
R. Scott Carr
GravesPA2 wrote:
>
<snip> Scully...does NOT forgive Mulder's "straying"---he
> hasn't strayed. (His only sexual liaison on the show was under extremely
> extenuating circumstances, he paid a price for it, and I seriously doubt
> Scully knows anything about it).
You could not be more correct. Whatever happened in "3," you can bet
that Mulder filed that in the "Whoops! I feel sheepish" section of his
brain and that was the end of it. In fact, he worked himself into such
a frenzy in "One Breath" that he may have managed to repress the whole
affair. In any event, you can bet he never told Scully. (They could
get married, have a bunch of kids, and live to be 100 and he would still
never tell her, I'll wager.)
And there are many people (not including
> me) who would say that she has no right to feel betrayed by anything
> Mulder does in his personal life, so how could she "serve him milk and
> cookies when he strays"? Or are you talking about straying
> professionally? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
If the earlier poster meant straying romantically, I don't get it. As
you said, Mulder doesn't stray, and when he flirts, Scully doesn't cut
him a whole lot of slack. Phoebe Green caught on to that right away.
And I agree that she would have the right to be upset if he were to
stray romantically. (Indeed, I think the whole audience would have that
right, but that's another issue.) As for his professional screw-ups,
yes Scully saves Mulder's bacon time and time again, but she also lets
him know when he's been acting foolishly. Milk and cookies? Like when
she shot him in Anasazi?
> Having a sex drive does NOT mean that you are
> unable to CONTROL that sex drive. The times we have witnessed Scully
> dealing with the concept of sex, while rare, have indicated a more
> conservative viewpoint on the subject, at least in terms of what behavior
> she considers to be appropriate between strangers. Her reaction to
> Skinner's tryst in "Avatar" and her embarrassment about her own behavior
> in "GenderBender" would indicate that quick intimacy with a stranger is
> not something she'd enter into without highly extenuating circumstances.
> This does not mean that she is a madonna figure of any sort. I have no
> trouble seeing Scully as being a very passionate, sensual woman in the
> arms of a man she loved and trusted. I just have trouble seeing her
> trusting a stranger enough to make herself vulnerable to him, especially
> considering the dangerous life she leads as Mulder's partner.
Your analysis seems right on the mark to me.
<snip> The subject in question is, given the
> scenario presented (whether this is a true scenario or a false one), do we
> believe that Scully would act in a given manner?
Exactly. Whether one is a 'shipper, an anti-'shipper, or whatever, the
question is how the writers should handle the characters. This has
never been (or should never have been) a moral debate, but rather a
discussion of whether a given (rumored) scenario could possibly be
believed.
SC
Mac Nooge
Pamela T. Pon wrote:
>Mac Nooge wrote:
> >
> >-Beagle
> >(Also thinking that if she'd had a wiser and more cowardly breed of dog
> >like myself she wouldn't have to be having those thoughts...*sigh* SYDs.
> >What can you do?)
>
> Quite true. Curious: would a Beagle have resorted to eating its deceased
> mistress after only a day or two without dog food?
>
natures, any beagle would have long since figured out how to open the
door (it IS difficult wihtout those opposing thumb thingies) and get on
the road. Loyalty? Hey, hanging around the corpse doesn't help anything.
But eating it is...well...gross. We may be ruthless, but we're not
uncivilized!
> >Director, Queeuqeg Memorial Small Yappy Dog Rest Home/Bait Shop
> >"Protecting the SYDs from themselves and Nessie"
>
> I didn't know Small Yappy Dogs were *capable* of resting (as opposed to
> yapping, jumping, and running about insanely) as long as they were alive.
> ... uhhh ... hey ... what exactly IS that Bait made from?
We at the rest home attempt to calm the nerves of Small Yappy Dogs
traumatized by the death of their original owners, involvement in serial
murder cases, detection by psychics, adoption and possible neglect by
FBI agents, and so forth. This involves a healthy routine of heavy
sedatives, genetic therapy (crossing them with dogs of a slightly
slower metabolism...like, oh, say, a Basset hound) and slave labour on
the Darin Morgan Suspension of Disbelief Bridge. Should these treatments
fail to prove effective, we...er...um...
the bait thing...bait, you say? what bait? oh, THAT bait?
(hehheheheheh---evil laugh of a beagle gone slightly mad from the
constant yapping)
-Beagle, hoping to get some deaf wolves over here to help with security
Director, QM SYD RH/BS
Cassandra
In article <5bijs2$o...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
jnco...@ix.netcom.com(JN Cotton) wrote:
> The only point here I take issue with is "trust." True, I think after
> all St. Scully has been through her trust factor has grown a little
> dim. But it seems that the initial Scully we saw was fairly trusting.
> She obviously trusted in her superiors, her government, her friends
> (Tom Colton I'm thinking), and even Mulder (in the pilot) who she did
> not know well. She may only "trust" Mulder now, but I don't think she
> started out that way.
True. She was more trustful in the beginning. And all those other people
she trusted easily turned out not to be worthy of her trust (I'm thinking
Colton, too, and, heck, she thinks her government abducted her!). Which to
me has led her to the point where she sure wouldn't remotely trust a
veritable stranger now.
--
Sandra Peacock
Brandon Ray wrote:
>
> In note <19970112100...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ste...@aol.com
> (StefXF) writes:
> >interesting discussion, let us also remember that Dana is Catholic.
> >Would she really just throw away her values like that? <<
> >
> >
> No, it's a bad point. Catholics are no less likely to have sex outside of
> marriage than anyone else. I'm thinking over my Catholic friends, and I don't
> think ANY of them arrived at the marriage alter as virgins.
>
I'd agree. I find the "she wouldn't do it becuase she's Catholic" the
least persusasive of the arguments in these threads.
Sure, S was raised Catholic and yes, she went to Confession in
"Revelations" but I've seen nothing to make me think she is in any way a
currently practising Catholic. In "Revelations", didn't she confess it'd
been a number of years since she had last had this sacrament?A "good"
Catholic should confess several times a year and a "minimal" one, still
at least once.
Wears a cross? Family memento.
Tal;ks about God? General belief in something greater but does not
indicate a particular practice of Catholicism.
Attends Church with her mom on Christmas? So? Christmas and Easter are
the big holidays for any of the Catholic derived religions and are big
family events on top of it. You'd have to feel very strongly about it to
argue with Mom Scully on Christmas...besides the songs are so beautiful
that season.
Yes, S was raised Catholic and is a saint but many saints have had sex.
Of all the things the lapsed Catholics I know feel guilt about,
premarital sex is very low on the list. Actually, judging by the number
of Catholic weddings I've been to in which the bride is pregnant, it's
apparently quite low on the list of things practising Catholics feel
guilt about.
I'd also disagree with the "she's too repressed/it wouldn't be
professional" argument. S is obviously not a virgin...much as I enjoyed
the fanfic "Taming the Unicorn". As was pointed out in one of the many
fine responses to this line of thought, S's involvment w/ Jack while
still a student does show an ability to disregard what is safe and to
take risks. She has also shown this ability the many times she's put her
own career in jeopardy (or even in jail) to protect Mulder.
And while I'm at it, re: the "it's not medically safe" thought...SHE'S A
DOCTOR. She knows what a condom and a diaphragm are for and I'll be she
even knows how to use them. THe spread of AIDS, other STD's or pregnancy
in properly protected low risk populations is just that...low risk.
Re: other arguments, I'm in the "let's watch it first" camp.
sandra
-who's just waitng for Pendrell to be the "man in the bar" S picks up
Cathy Kelty
ldo...@aol.com (LDoone1) writes:
>We ALL make mistakes...but those of us who have a tendency to look down
>the road and make judgments about the wisdom of our actions, have a
>tendency to avoid the HUGE mistakes, while learning lessons from the
>little ones.
Now she tells me...
Cathy
Jane Harmon
Pamela T. Pon wrote:
> If we're talking mistakes, which is worse: a prolonged affair with
> her *instructor*, who also happened to be a control freak -- or an admitted
> 1-night stand with yummmmmola Cooper Hawkes/Rodney Rowland?
I was wondering when someone was going to point this out. Face it,
the most moral, chaste, intellectual and/or repressed female is going
to start thinking 'ah, heck with it' when confronted with this
*particular* form of temptation... Jane
Cassandra
In article <19970114154...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
grav...@aol.com (GravesPA2) wrote:
> Try again. I happen to see Scully as a strong, independent, sexually
> confident woman who also has standards that she has set for herself in
> regards to sexual activity.
[snip]
> I believe that my view of Scully is borne out in the 3 1/2 years of
> episodes I have watched---and I have watched them all, most of them
> several times apiece. Having a sex drive does NOT mean that you are
> unable to CONTROL that sex drive. The times we have witnessed Scully
> dealing with the concept of sex, while rare, have indicated a more
> conservative viewpoint on the subject, at least in terms of what behavior
> she considers to be appropriate between strangers. [snip] I just have
trouble seeing her
> trusting a stranger enough to make herself vulnerable to him, especially
> considering the dangerous life she leads as Mulder's partner.
>
> I haven't seen ANYONE in these threads suggest that Scully is asexual or
> should remain virginal on the show. The subject in question is, given the
> scenario presented (whether this is a true scenario or a false one), do we
> believe that Scully would act in a given manner? That's been the source
> of debate, and if only the flaming would stay out of the way, I'd find
> this a rather interesting bit of discourse.
[snip]
> This is actually an interesting subject----a "What if" kind of thread that
> could be revelatory and enlightening if only we'd conduct it in a more
> respectful, civilized manner.
Bravo, Paula, and thank you for saying this so very well! [Insert much
clapping here.] This is *exactly* the point I've been trying to address.
To borrow an extremely overused phrase from a couple of elections ago,
"It's The Characterization, Stupid!" <g> From everything I have seen on
the show, Dana Katherine Scully is a very controlled, responsible person
who does not trust easily. That is the Scully I have seen for 3-1/2 years,
and I think any change in that characterization would be a gradual one,
not an abrupt metamorphosis in the course of one episode. If we had seen
hints of something brewing, *perhaps* ... but we haven't, apart from a
growing irritation with Mulder, and I'm afraid that just doesn't count for
much with me in terms of metamorphic motivation.
Sandra Peacock
Sheryl Martin wrote:
>snip..snip
>
> after all, it'd be easy for CSM to fix her up with a fling and then either
> blackmail her or use that person to hurt her; physically and mentally...
> snip
I think about this whenever the "Mulder and the Uniblonde are going to
sleep together" rumors reappear.
If she really is inside the Consortium or has close ties to it, then she
should know what happened to Deep Throat and Mr. X when they were found
to be feeding M info.
I was surprised she even let him into her apartment.
sandra
Sam Deth
sime...@delphi.com wrote:
>
> What else do you call a woman who gets loaded in a bar with a
> guy she's just met, rolls back to his apartment and spends the
> nite with him?
Mmm hmmmm...and this happened when?
I'd call her fun quite frankly...or a dream come true (I suspect a lot
of guys out there agree on that), but I would certainly not call her a
slut. It's not as if she's made a habit of it if she did it once.
Besides...least she did not get a hooker like Skinner did hehehe. Scully
is far too smart to be classified as a slut anyway, and a one time
occurance would not change that.
In any case...guys do that all the time, and you would not call them
sluts would you? I know women generally call them names, but men
don't...not negative ones anyway.
I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond to such trollbait.
Seems like this is an attempt to inflame the female residents of
X-ville...I hope they're smart enough not to get too upset over it.
>Slut.
What a colorful name you have, or is it just your nickname?
Sam Deth.
--
"He falls on his *ss. Then gets up, minus his handsome features, and
busts the pr*ck's shotgun over his head. Then he bites the guy's throat
open and starts drinking." Si Coltrane, describing his first encounter
with Cassidy.
Dawn Garden
In article <853181013-0-8950@arthur>, Brandon Ray
<Pub...@panda.uiowa.edu> writes
>In note <32D8A2...@olywa.net>, Fogg writes:
>>Cassandra wrote:
>>
>>> One thing about all this that really bugs me is that if they show this
>>> episode after the Super Bowl as originally planned, millions of first-time
>>> viewers will get the idea that Dana Scully is an unprofessional idiot who
>>> gets drunk & picks up strange men in bars. Many of those first-time
>>> viewers will never see the show again, and that will be the impression of
>>> Dana Scully they will be left with. That is a travesty, and it makes me
>>> physically ill, b/c it's *so far* away from what her wonderful character
>>> really is. No doubt that's why they had 2nd-thoughts about the scheduling,
>>> and I can only hope they put some other ep there instead, to at least
>>> salvage *something*.
>>
>>Do you really think that the network would try to lure these kinds of
>>lunkheads into watching XF this way? I think they would find the show
>>interesting discussion, let us also remember that Dana is Catholic.
>>the author (sime...@delphi.com) of the original message anyway?
>>
>>Katy in Whoville
>>
>I know plenty of Catholics who have had sex outside of marriage.
>
>I really don't understand this whole argument -- some of you are acting as if
>sleeping with someone you aren't married (or at least committed) to is the
>ultimate sin. How silly! As has been pointed out by others -- Mulder did it.
> Skinner did it. Why should Scully be immune to normal human sex drives?
>Sheesh.
>
>Here's a quick quiz (be honest): Of those complaining about this reported
>story line, how many of you have had or have seriously considered having sex
>outside of marriage? Are you all as "pure" as you claim Scully is? Or are
>you just a bunch of hypocrites? And a second question: How many people
>reading this thread REALLY think that Dana Scully, with her age and
>experience, is still a virgin?
>
>But if you insist on perverting sex into a sin, you might at least consider
>the possibility that she is somehow bewitched by some paranormal phenomenon.
>This IS the X-Files. Or for that matter...anyone here want to defend the
>proposition that CSM and his gang are above using the date-rape drug on
>Scully, if they thought it was to their advantage?
>
>Best yet -- let's wait until we see the episode before we start condemning
>anyone so sanctimoniously.
>******************************************************************************
>
>"Fifty years ago,when I was born...it was unimaginable that someone like me
>could have ever become President of the greatest country in human history."
> William Jefferson Clinton, 11/5/96
>
>You said it, Bill -- not me.
>
>******************************************************************************
>
or that sex before marriage is the ultimate sin (although to some people
it is, so respect that), or even that Scully should not have sex. This
is just a debate on whether it is keeping with Scully's character, for
her to GET DRUNK, and sleep with a STRANGER, whilst on a case, that's
all. I think the inclusion of the word "slut" just confused the issue a
bit.
We all (or most of us) want to see Scully doing normal Scully things,
and to keep with her character, sex for Scully would most likely with
someone she knows quite well, and not some one-night-stand thing. Unless
there were extenuating circumstances, which is where I like your idea of
the love-drug thing! Maybe she comes under the influence of some "Flash
Gordon/Ming's ring-power to seduce" situation. Now that would be cool:)
I thank you!!
--
Osu (who thinks the woman in Flash Gordon might have been called Dale Arden, but
didn't want to embarrasse herself incase she's wrong.)
Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/
Brandon Ray
In note <46MTYDAg...@sgarden.demon.co.uk>, Dawn Garden writes:
>In article <853181013-0-8950@arthur>, Brandon Ray
><Pub...@panda.uiowa.edu> writes
>>In note <32D8A2...@olywa.net>, Fogg writes:
>>>Cassandra wrote:
>>>
>>>> One thing about all this that really bugs me is that if they show this
>>>> episode after the Super Bowl as originally planned, millions of first-
>or that sex before marriage is the ultimate sin (although to some people
>it is, so respect that), or even that Scully should not have sex. This
>is just a debate on whether it is keeping with Scully's character, for
>her to GET DRUNK, and sleep with a STRANGER, whilst on a case, that's
>all. I think the inclusion of the word "slut" just confused the issue a
>bit.
Let's not be disingenuous -- it is self-evident that for at least half of the
poeple on the "no she would never do that" side, it most certainly IS a matter
of morality. All the blather about "character development" is just cover.
Would Scully get drunk and have a one night stand? I say, given the right set
of circumstances and buildup, almost ANYONE would do this. All the cries of
moral outrage that Scully is somehow above such urges are, based on alleged
characterization, are convenient but not convincing -- unless you REALLY
believe that, by coincidence, the most important recurring female character
"just happens" to be "not that sort of girl", when it is has been amply
demonstrated that the two most important MALE characters most certainly ARE
"that sort of boy".
What we are seeing is a demonstration of a long-standing American prejudice:
Women are either virgins or whores. There is no middle ground. And the use
of the term slut, repeatedly, in numerous threads, did not simply muddy the
waters -- it let the cat out of the bag.
>We all (or most of us) want to see Scully doing normal Scully things,
>and to keep with her character, sex for Scully would most likely with
>someone she knows quite well, and not some one-night-stand thing. Unless
>there were extenuating circumstances, which is where I like your idea of
>the love-drug thing! Maybe she comes under the influence of some "Flash
>Gordon/Ming's ring-power to seduce" situation. Now that would be cool:)
>
Agreed!
>I thank you!!
>
>--
>Osu (who thinks the woman in Flash Gordon might have been called Dale Arden,
>butdidn't want to embarrasse herself incase she's wrong.)
>
>Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/
---