Any *NSYNC/XF crossovers????

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Taylor Mulder

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Apr 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/16/00
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Yeah, yeah, yeah I may just be some "stupid teeny-bopper", but I bet that some
of you women were sitting right next to my mother at the Beatles concert
screaming for Paul McCartney :) he-hee Anyway, does anyone have any clue of
any *NSYNC/XF crossovers??????????? Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

Taylor
(Who is going to the *NSYNC concert of June 6th!!!!!!!!!!)

Dawson Rambo

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Apr 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/17/00
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Taylor Mulder wrote:
>
> Yeah, yeah, yeah I may just be some "stupid teeny-bopper", but I bet that some
> of you women were sitting right next to my mother at the Beatles concert
> screaming for Paul McCartney :) he-hee Anyway, does anyone have any clue of
> any *NSYNC/XF crossovers??????????? Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

I can only shudder to imagine what possible plotlines would be used
for such a crossover. But, as with all plot-addicted writers, the
thoughts that come to mind (and will probably continue to torture
me into the night) include:

1. Mulder and Scully investigate a Clearsil shortage in a chain of
drugstores that has no rational explination until Scully stumbles
on the fact that an *Nsync concert is scheduled for that weekend.
Case closed.

2. Parents request the FBI investigate how five clean-cut young
men can hold such powerful sway over girls aged 8-30 by
singing songs made entirely out of cotton candy. Scully
listens to one of the songs, and her head subsequently
explodes.

3. After performing a statistical analysis of the available
facts, Mulder discovers that the declining education
of Our Nation's Youth is directly tied to the amount of
time our young women spend writing "Amanda-n-[name] 4-ever"
on the covers of math textbooks.

4. Mulder stumbles over a mysterious labratory that is involed
in dark, diabolical cloning experiments; the first
botched experiment was "The Bay City Rollers," and after
years of trial and error (Menudo, NKOTB,) they have finally
perfected the method of creating bubblegum boy bands that
can churn out soft-rock-syrup-hits to speak to the fantasies
of teenage girls everywhere. In a shocking development,
Scully discovers that the entire cloning experiment was
financed by TEEN BEAT and TIGER BEAT magazines.

Taylor, you're not a stupid teenybopper; just a typical one. <G>

Repeat after me: Not EVERY SINGLE POPULAR CULTURE ITEM can
be successfully crossed over with X-Files. (Or any *other*
item, for that matter.)

Next thing you know, they'll be an XF/Pokemon crossover.

Dawson,
feeling his damn age

Brandon Ray

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Apr 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/17/00
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Dawson Rambo wrote:

> Taylor Mulder wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, yeah, yeah I may just be some "stupid teeny-bopper", but I bet that some
> > of you women were sitting right next to my mother at the Beatles concert
> > screaming for Paul McCartney :) he-hee Anyway, does anyone have any clue of
> > any *NSYNC/XF crossovers??????????? Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I can only shudder to imagine what possible plotlines would be used
> for such a crossover. But, as with all plot-addicted writers, the
> thoughts that come to mind (and will probably continue to torture
> me into the night) include:
>

You know, there are a lot of requests and challenges posted here and elsewhere, and
many of them fail to hold my interest. In fact, a few seem downright stupid and
childish. That also goes for a fair amount of actual fanfic that gets posted.

But it seems to me that it's even more childish to publically ridicule someone for
posting a story preference.

Just my opinion.

--
"Now, tenure at MIT is not an altogether bad thing." -- a friend, commenting on a
job offer.
===================================
I like to think that my fanfic isn't an altogether bad thing:
http://www.avalon.net/~publius/MyStories.html
And I *know* that my recs are not altogether bad things:
http://www.avalon.net/~publius/MyRecs.html

japp...@ecn.ab.ca

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Apr 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/17/00
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Deirdre (dei...@x-philes.com) wrote:

<pikasnip!>

: Poor Dawson ... There are, although I can't remember where I saw it at
: the moment.

I think I saw a few at fanfiction.net - they read like 10 year olds wrote
them...

: For many years, it seemed that both book-based fanfic and most
: actorfic (outside of parody) was mainly avoided. Theory: it was
: avoided out of respect. But in the past year or so, book-based fanfic
: has taken off to such a point that several authors have been forced to
: tell their fans - "do it and regret it." Anne Rice is the most
: recent, having expressed her dislike for fanfic within the past couple
: of weeks. Actorfic and boyband fic are on the rise - I was utterly
: shocked when I stumbled across a boyband fic archive on the web. A
: boyband slash archive involving Hanson (not just slash, incest, right?
: aren't they brothers?) ...


Author Mercedes Lackey ("Tales of the SERRAted Edge" etc.) is quite
adamant about people *not doing fanfic work based off of any of her work
without first getting an offical letter of permission from her. Adamnant
to the point of legal action... Pity...

: Most of the fic that's starting to stir up trouble is being written by
: younger kids/teens. There's indications that it's starting to stir up
: RL problems - there have been several pretty well-known authors that
: have come out against fanfic recently. We've had fic, in the past,
: that crossed with some universes pulled from Gossamer due to author's
: fears (I don't know if any were actually due to threatened legal
: action.)

Some authors are against fanfic based off of their works due to possible
complications with the contracts with their publishers. Some just don't
like their characters getting slaughtered in the hands of some incompetant
writer wannabe with the writing skills of a half-dead fern.

: Geez ... I can't remember where I was going with this ... but does
: anyone here feel that this trend indicates is going to land some forms
: of "fanfic" in deep shit?

In a word: yup.

: See, I've been trying to figure out why I've never had any desire to
: write fanfic about book-based universes, and the only conclusion I've
: come to has been that it's out of respect for the author. You see it
: around here, too, when people's disclaimers read "M & S belong to CC,
: but Blah Blah is mine and cannot be used without my permission."
: There have been problems over a couple of popular characters over the
: years. Do others see the dividing line there?

<nod> And it can only get worse...

<sigh> Everything always has to get so complicated... =(

---
NightFall (Team AL #9) (AIM: XV Watcher)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darkness comes where NightFall goes.

"There's nothin' to it at all, nothin' to it at all! All any outfit needs
is one man with brains." - "Panhandle" Phillips

"Well Hell's Bells! You can't just let events unfold of their own accords!
That'd be anarchy." - Ol' Pan Phillips again

"Melanie, O sweet Melanie, Why won't you go out with me?" - "Melanie" by
Weird Al Yankovic

"His nephew's a METAPHOR?!?!" - Rowan Atkinson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Outlandish Salmonid Fish

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
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> Scully
> listens to one of the songs, and her head subsequently
> explodes.

Hey, Dawson, any chance you can be convinced to write this? ;o)

-Rebecca
who doesn't give a damn about NSYNC or other teen bands, but just wants to read
Dawson's description of Scully's head exploding.
*******************
"He started messing with the Christmas tree, telling me how nice the Christmas
tree was. So I shot him."-- David Bullock, explaining why he murdered an
acquaintance.

My web page: www.altern.org/jseb
********************


Dawson E. Rambo

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
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Deirdre wrote:


>
> On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Dawson Rambo wrote:
>
> > Taylor Mulder wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah, yeah, yeah I may just be some "stupid teeny-bopper", but I bet that some
> > > of you women were sitting right next to my mother at the Beatles concert
> > > screaming for Paul McCartney :) he-hee Anyway, does anyone have any clue of
> > > any *NSYNC/XF crossovers??????????? Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
>

> My mother was - not I.


>
> > Next thing you know, they'll be an XF/Pokemon crossover.
>

> Poor Dawson ... There are, although I can't remember where I saw it at
> the moment.

I knew there was the moment I clicked "Send." Now, I don't wanna get
off on a rant here, but excepting very few cases ("H:LOTS" comes to
mind,) there are very few universes that "work" when crossed-over
with XF. And *Nsync is just *not* one of them. Neither is Pokemon.
AAMOF, I think a parody top-ten list of "Worst XF Crossovers" is in
order, but since I tend to start flamewars when I really don't want
to, pretend I just didn't write that.

> I know that most people around here have strong opinions about
> actorfic. ;) The longer we've been around, the stronger our opinions
> about it seem to be.

See, I didn't make the connection to the RL aspect of the boyband,
because to me, the public personae of the members of the aforementioned
*Nsync, BSB, 98 degrees, or whatever bears about as much resemblence
to the personalities of the actual people as GA does to DKS. So, to
my mind at the time I composed my original reply, those were characters
that the author was suggesting be crossed-over, not actual people.


> The other issue is book-based fanfic. Although some SF/FAN authors

[snippery]

Really no opinion on bookFic. I did think about an Andrew Vachss/XF
crossover once, just because the Bandit voice and Vachss voice are..
well, I'd be egotistical to say "Similar" but that's what comes to
mind. Sort of. Maybe "sympathetic" is a better term. But, since I've
met Andy about four or five times at various functions, I'd be
hard pressed to come up with an excuse to borrow Burke from him.

(Although, the sharp-eyed among you will remember that "Ed Burke"
was the "real name" of XFBandit until I came out of the closet. And,
yes, that was a tip of the hat to Andy's character.)

> Most of the fic that's starting to stir up trouble is being written by
> younger kids/teens. There's indications that it's starting to stir up
> RL problems - there have been several pretty well-known authors that
> have come out against fanfic recently. We've had fic, in the past,

Probably comes from the utter lack of restraint that your younger
authors (typically) show. Like that God-awful actorfic about a
month ago that allowed me to once again step in it. Kids just don't
consider the ramifications of things like that. They haven't had
enough of "life" experience to realize what's appropriate and what's
not. And the immediacy of the Internet and the ability to write/post/
view so quickly has impacted this in other ways, too.

> Geez ... I can't remember where I was going with this ... but does
> anyone here feel that this trend indicates is going to land some forms
> of "fanfic" in deep shit?

Yeah, because sooner or later some court somewhere is going to have
to lay down what "fanfic" is, and what it isn't. And I know how
slippery a slope that is. It brings all sorts of issues like
copyright protection, freedom of expression, and the fine line
between violation of copyright and fair use into question. And once
the question is settled -- then what? How is a US Supreme Court
ruling going to be enforced on Gossamer Germany? And is every single
ISP going to be held responsible for every byte that passes through
their servers? No matter what the courts eventually decide is
"right" and "wrong," the law becomes for all practical purposes
unenforceable. Germany tried to ban porn on the Internet, and
CI$ did the only thing it could: It pulled the plug to the rest
of the world, and CI$ customers howled loud and long before the
German courts relented.

For years, the PTB have depended on the communities themselves to
police and correct. So when we post followups to actorFic and such
things with gentle (and sometimes not-too-gentle) finger wags in the
flavor of "Thou shouldn't do that-" it's not so much (to my mind,
warning:Opinion) one author saying "I don't like [x], and therefore
you shouldn't write it," as some who have been offended like to
claim, but more, "That isn't *appropriate* here, and if you want
to be welcomed with open arms here, don't do it!"

Of course, the sub-problem is that the 'net has gotten so large that
cliques develop, and even if author "X" isn't welcomed by clique "A",
he/she will find some kind of welcome somewhere.

Issues, issues...

> I don't write about RL people because the thought of it makes me feel
> sullied. I mean, I've had enough of my personal life exposed around
> here during flame wars years back, and I've had enough dirty rumors

To put a fine point on it, it's just not appropriate to write about
real people in fanfic. It's disrespectful. It somehow...soils both
the person the fic is "about," and the author.

(Now, before anyone jumps down my throat about having
Janet Reno as a character in a fanfic, I know what you mean. I
think I referred to Director Freeh in one of my fics. But it was
with *respect*. And yes, I know that then the opinion of what
constitutes respect comes into play, and when some teenybopper
author writes about how she'd like to french kiss a bandmember
for six straight days...she considers that the height of respect.
I know it's a briar patch. I admit it. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.
But that don't change the facts. Some things Just Should Not
Be Done, and this is one of them.)

But that's just my opinion.

I could be wrong. :)

Dawson

Dawson E. Rambo

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
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Outlandish Salmonid Fish wrote:
>
> > Scully
> > listens to one of the songs, and her head subsequently
> > explodes.
>
> Hey, Dawson, any chance you can be convinced to write this? ;o)
>
> -Rebecca
> who doesn't give a damn about NSYNC or other teen bands, but just wants to read
> Dawson's description of Scully's head exploding.

"...wanna be your everything..."

*bam!*

*ow*

*thud*.

THE END.

;)
D

bugs

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
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In article <38FB7AF2...@airmonitor.com>,

dra...@airmonitor.com wrote:
> Taylor Mulder wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, yeah, yeah I may just be some "stupid teeny-bopper", but I bet
that some
> > of you women were sitting right next to my mother at the Beatles
concert
> > screaming for Paul McCartney :) he-hee Anyway, does anyone have
any clue of
> > any *NSYNC/XF crossovers??????????? Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I can only shudder to imagine what possible plotlines would be used
> for such a crossover. But, as with all plot-addicted writers, the
> thoughts that come to mind (and will probably continue to torture
> me into the night) include:
>
<snippity 1-4>

5. Actual story idea bugs pitched to Ambress, to be laughed off the
keyboard. I now damn her to hell, because I obviously could have had
*one* reader.

M/S investigate a case of crazed teen girls on killing sprees, ending
in the girls' suicides. But they appear to be the most pure of little
girls, obsessed with a boy band, not evil Goth girls with black
fingernails. Scully is convinced they were leading secret lives,
listening to Rob Zombie and Marilyn Manson, but Mulder isn't sure. They
go to investigate at the record company and run into ol' Marilyn, and
Scully is more convinced than ever she's right and he's sublimely
influencing the girls through his CDs. But then he shows up dead! And
it's all the work of the sweetest, blondest, purest, biggest cross
around the neck wearing boy, Zak-Nik.

Oh, Ambress got me to shut this plot down by saying someone had
already posted a killer boy band fic. So there is one out there
somewhere, all interested parties, which I doubt the original poster
really is. -- bugs

http://urw.simplenet.com/bugs


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

A.K. Finch

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
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dra...@airmonitor.com wrote:

<<3. After performing a statistical analysis of the available
facts, Mulder discovers that the declining education
of Our Nation's Youth is directly tied to the amount of
time our young women spend writing "Amanda-n-[name] 4-ever"
on the covers of math textbooks.>>

Hey! Give me back my notebooks, you joykill! <g>

Amanda, whose only ever notebook etching was "Hooray for me, and f!?k you!"
"Blessed be those of dim understanding, for by their very ignorance, they bring
light to those who labor in darkness." -- David Simon, HOMICIDE: A YEAR ON THE
KILLING STREETS

Megan

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
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Dawson E. Rambo wrote:
> See, I didn't make the connection to the RL aspect of the boyband,
> because to me, the public personae of the members of the aforementioned
> *Nsync, BSB, 98 degrees, or whatever bears about as much resemblence
> to the personalities of the actual people as GA does to DKS. So, to
> my mind at the time I composed my original reply, those were characters
> that the author was suggesting be crossed-over, not actual people.

For what it's worth, I tend to agree.

The boy bands, it's kind of like with the Monkees - they were playing
characters who happened to have the same names as they did. Didn't I
read the Backstreet Boys or NSYNC or one of them (I don't keep track) is
going to have a cartoon adventure show? Same deal.

I guess the argument could be made that this confuses the poor children
who are already confused about reality and fiction (valid point) but it
seems outside the realm of straight actorfic to me.

Megan


--
_______________________________
Megan
eponi...@worldnet.att.net
http://members.dencity.com/eponine/

Harsh Realm Virtual Season
premieres May 19
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Video/8494/index.html

Queen Mab

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
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okay, yes, i am not a huge fan of anything resembling boy bands, but i
would pay to see an episode where M and S go see one of those concerts,
just to check out the look on their faces as thousands of 13 yr old
girls scream and cry and trample each other just to get a picture of
any one of those boy's gyrating pelvis. ;)

Queen Mab


* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


Dawson Rambo

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to

Brandon Ray wrote:


>
> Dawson Rambo wrote:
>
> > Taylor Mulder wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah, yeah, yeah I may just be some "stupid teeny-bopper", but I bet that some
> > > of you women were sitting right next to my mother at the Beatles concert
> > > screaming for Paul McCartney :) he-hee Anyway, does anyone have any clue of
> > > any *NSYNC/XF crossovers??????????? Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > I can only shudder to imagine what possible plotlines would be used
> > for such a crossover. But, as with all plot-addicted writers, the
> > thoughts that come to mind (and will probably continue to torture
> > me into the night) include:
> >
>

> You know, there are a lot of requests and challenges posted here and elsewhere, and
> many of them fail to hold my interest. In fact, a few seem downright stupid and
> childish. That also goes for a fair amount of actual fanfic that gets posted.
>
> But it seems to me that it's even more childish to publically ridicule someone for
> posting a story preference.
>
> Just my opinion.

And you're welcome to it, although I hardly think what I wrote amounts
to
public ridicule. And quite frankly, I think some of the skins around
here
need to toughen up a little. Like it or not, there is a certain amount
of
validity to the idea that not every single universe should be crossed
over
with XF.

And, while I do support the idea that every single person that reads
and/or
posts here has an absolute right to their opinion, I also feel that I
have the right to look at such statments and say, "Ooooh-kay, right,
whatever."

Much has been written about the general "level" of fanfic. Inasmuch
as its true that we have all different kinds of audiences here, from
the very young to the more mature to the very old, and there should
be stories in each segment for those audiences to enjoy, I'd have
to say that a Harry Potter crossover makes a tad more sense than
a boyband/XF crossover. Again, that is just my opinion.

Dawson

Dawson Rambo

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to

Megan wrote:


>
> Dawson E. Rambo wrote:
> > See, I didn't make the connection to the RL aspect of the boyband,
> > because to me, the public personae of the members of the aforementioned
> > *Nsync, BSB, 98 degrees, or whatever bears about as much resemblence
> > to the personalities of the actual people as GA does to DKS. So, to
> > my mind at the time I composed my original reply, those were characters
> > that the author was suggesting be crossed-over, not actual people.
>

> For what it's worth, I tend to agree.
>
> The boy bands, it's kind of like with the Monkees - they were playing
> characters who happened to have the same names as they did. Didn't I
> read the Backstreet Boys or NSYNC or one of them (I don't keep track) is
> going to have a cartoon adventure show? Same deal.
>
> I guess the argument could be made that this confuses the poor children
> who are already confused about reality and fiction (valid point) but it
> seems outside the realm of straight actorfic to me.


Without getting into the discussion about whether or not these singers
are "real people" (ie:actorFic) or "characters," I fall back on my
original position: Not *every single* universe that exists should
be crossed over with XF. Or any *other* universe for that matter.

Dharma & Greg / Millenium crossovers. QED.

Just because a person likes two seperate television shows or
any two seperate universes doesn't mean that the sum of them
will add up to something great.

Yes, yes, yes, I am completely, totally aware of the position
"If you don't like it, don't read it." And it's not my job
or anyone elses to tell these writers that to write such a
fic is a waste of time/bad idea/goofy. I'm not the net police.

I'm not saying "Don't do that." I'm saying "Think about what
you're doing before you do it."

Daws

Annie

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
Brandon Ray wrote:
> downright stupid and
> childish. That also goes for a fair amount of actual fanfic that gets posted.
>
> But it seems to me that it's even more childish to publically ridicule someone for
> posting a story preference.

Brandon Ray's killfile list:

Those Who Don't Agree With Brandon Ray
The Downright Stupid (according to Brandon Ray)
All Things Childish (except for Brandon Ray)
The Even More Childish (ditto)
Public Ridiculers (unless instigated by Brandon Ray)

Come read my Brandon Ray fiction at my Brandon Ray site:
www.brandonray/hasachiponhishoulder.com

:-P

Annie
--

Dawson Rambo

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
> > AAMOF, I think a parody top-ten list of "Worst XF Crossovers" is in
> > order, but since I tend to start flamewars when I really don't want
> > to, pretend I just didn't write that.
>
> *g* I wouldn't want to help with that (no really ;)

I don't need any help. Really. <G>



> > unenforceable. Germany tried to ban porn on the Internet, and
> > CI$ did the only thing it could: It pulled the plug to the rest
> > of the world, and CI$ customers howled loud and long before the
> > German courts relented.
>

> Well - we have two different things here. I don't think that Usenet
> as currently configured will ever be effectively regulated. But

It can't. From a technical standpoint, it simply cannot. Too much
data moving too quickly through systems that are not able to
examine, only store-and-forward. If the technical limitations were
imposed that every ISP had to examine every byte passing through
a newsfeed, it'd take a week for a post to appear on a newsgroup.

> Usenet is really on that slide down to death - with under 10% of
> customers on a given ISP using the newsgroups, ISPs don't want to toss
> money at Usenet. But with the feed at over 100 gig/day, it's demanding
> big money to keep running.

I disagree, with a caveat. Consumer-oriented ISPs may eventually nuke
Usenet, but then I think it will be reborn underground. News is just
too...persistent to die. But I agree that the overhead/cost ratio
to user demand is so low that something is going to happen. I know
that my ISP (sonic.net) has a very low article expire threshold
for binaries (like <=12 hours) but 10 days for text newsgroups.
Moving data through the backbones is not the issue: Storing the
data that moves through the backbone is the issue. My ISP just
added something like 40GB to the news server for just this reason,
and they have 1 satellite feed and 3 terrestrial feeds (T3s each)
to keep news "current." That's gotta cost. But I know that since I
live pretty damn close to Silicon Valley, (and actually in something
called Telecom Valley,) that Sonic has zero plans to nuke Usenet.

> Web-wise, aren't ISPs responsible if they have been given fair warning
> but have not removed the stuff? And foriegn connections are no
> guarentee because too many foriegn countries bow to the powers of the
> US. Look at what happened to the kid in Europe that was distributing
> DeCSS! Although it's US forces (the US recording industry) that are
> upset and US copyright laws that the suit has been filed under, his
> government treated him like a criminal.

That was Hollyweird, not the recording indstury, because DeCSS was
for DVDs, IIRC. Those things (media seperate from the Internet
itself, such as CDs, DVDs, videotapes, etc.) are *already*
covered under international treaty. So, making 30,000 illegal
BSB CDs is covered and enforcable. But look, for example, at the
huge software piracy problems in Asia. Same media (CDs,) but
almost no laws to cover them outside the US. Yes, it's illegal
to pirate software in Tiawan, but try getting a US court order
enforced there, OR getting a local court to honor a request
from the US Government.


> > claim, but more, "That isn't *appropriate* here, and if you want
> > to be welcomed with open arms here, don't do it!"
>

> That is what I see to be the best course, as well. And if those who
> are angered by it wander off and create an actorfic onelist, well
> they're providing a concentrated target ;)

It's not a matter of providing a target. It's a matter of community.
The Supreme Court usually talks about "Community Standards" when
trying to apply sticky laws about "right and wrong" in the ether.
Things about book bannings and porn and things like that always
come down to what the community believes is good/bad/ugly. All
I'm saying is that as a community, it is a good idea (in my opinion)
to tell younger authors that, yes, I know you love BSB and so forth,
but...they're Real People and writing fic about Real People
(with the examples below excepted, for obvious but hard-to-explain-
reasons,) is just Something That Should Not Be Done.

> I'm thinking back to a Law & Order/Homicide crossover from last
> season that had federal gov't connections. Even they danced around
> what universe the politics were taking place in - names were not
> frequently mentioned.


>
> > But that's just my opinion.
> >
> > I could be wrong. :)
>

> There are no absolutes in the world, only opinions.

True. And, this country was founded on the idea that when a majority
of opinions say the same thing, then that's what we'll go with.

It doesn't always work that way, and hell YEAH, sometimes it works
that way when it just shouldn't. But that's life.

Daws

Brandon Ray

unread,
Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to

Dawson Rambo wrote:

> Brandon Ray wrote:
>
> >
> > You know, there are a lot of requests and challenges posted here and elsewhere, and

> > many of them fail to hold my interest. In fact, a few seem downright stupid and


> > childish. That also goes for a fair amount of actual fanfic that gets posted.
> >
> > But it seems to me that it's even more childish to publically ridicule someone for
> > posting a story preference.
> >

> > Just my opinion.
>
> And you're welcome to it, although I hardly think what I wrote amounts
> to
> public ridicule. And quite frankly, I think some of the skins around
> here
> need to toughen up a little. Like it or not, there is a certain amount
> of

> validity to the idea that not every single universe should be crossed
> over
> with XF.

I don't like it, and I don't agree. Who are *you* to decide what stories ought and
ought not to be written? As I said before, there are a great many stories posted that I
don't care for. My solution to that is that I don't read them. I don't feel any need
to make a public post telling the people who wrote or enjoy reading those stories that
they shouldn't have done it.

> And, while I do support the idea that every single person that reads
> and/or
> posts here has an absolute right to their opinion, I also feel that I
> have the right to look at such statments and say, "Ooooh-kay, right,
> whatever."

And I have the right to tell you that you're being rude when you do it.

>
> Much has been written about the general "level" of fanfic. Inasmuch
> as its true that we have all different kinds of audiences here, from
> the very young to the more mature to the very old, and there should
> be stories in each segment for those audiences to enjoy, I'd have
> to say that a Harry Potter crossover makes a tad more sense than
> a boyband/XF crossover. Again, that is just my opinion.

And that's *all* it is. Your opinion.

And you *were* ridiculing someone. The original poster had asked for crossovers of a
specific type. You proceeded to make fun of the concept at great length, in direct
response to the original message. It's hard to see how that can be taken as anything
other than personal criticism of the original request.

Brandon Ray

unread,
Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to

Dawson Rambo wrote:

>
> >
> > > But that's just my opinion.
> > >
> > > I could be wrong. :)
> >
> > There are no absolutes in the world, only opinions.
>
> True. And, this country was founded on the idea that when a majority
> of opinions say the same thing, then that's what we'll go with.
>
> It doesn't always work that way, and hell YEAH, sometimes it works
> that way when it just shouldn't. But that's life.

That's a vast oversimplification, and there are some very important parts
of life where it is explicitly *not* true. One of those places is public
expression. The majority does not always rule in this country, nor should
it. There are protections for minority opinions built into the system.
Sometimes those rights are violated; sometimes they *have* to be violated.
But simply saying, "That's life" isn't reallly a very useful response.

Brandon Ray

unread,
Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to

Annie wrote:

> Brandon Ray wrote:
> > downright stupid and
> > childish. That also goes for a fair amount of actual fanfic that gets posted.
> >
> > But it seems to me that it's even more childish to publically ridicule someone for
> > posting a story preference.
>

> Brandon Ray's killfile list:
>
> Those Who Don't Agree With Brandon Ray
> The Downright Stupid (according to Brandon Ray)
> All Things Childish (except for Brandon Ray)
> The Even More Childish (ditto)
> Public Ridiculers (unless instigated by Brandon Ray)
>
> Come read my Brandon Ray fiction at my Brandon Ray site:
> www.brandonray/hasachiponhishoulder.com
>
> :-P
>
> Annie
> --

My killfile is actually very small, and neither you nor Dawson are anywhere close to
earning a place in it.

I'm sorry if you have a problem handling criticism of Dawson's opinions; it's too bad
you, too, had to resort to public ridicule as a response.

Dawson Rambo

unread,
Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
This is what I wrote:

Dawson Rambo wrote:
>
> Taylor Mulder wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, yeah, yeah I may just be some "stupid teeny-bopper", but I bet that some
> > of you women were sitting right next to my mother at the Beatles concert
> > screaming for Paul McCartney :) he-hee Anyway, does anyone have any clue of
> > any *NSYNC/XF crossovers??????????? Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I can only shudder to imagine what possible plotlines would be used
> for such a crossover. But, as with all plot-addicted writers, the
> thoughts that come to mind (and will probably continue to torture
> me into the night) include:
>

> 1. Mulder and Scully investigate a Clearsil shortage in a chain of
> drugstores that has no rational explination until Scully stumbles
> on the fact that an *Nsync concert is scheduled for that weekend.
> Case closed.
>
> 2. Parents request the FBI investigate how five clean-cut young
> men can hold such powerful sway over girls aged 8-30 by

> singing songs made entirely out of cotton candy. Scully


> listens to one of the songs, and her head subsequently
> explodes.
>

> 3. After performing a statistical analysis of the available
> facts, Mulder discovers that the declining education
> of Our Nation's Youth is directly tied to the amount of
> time our young women spend writing "Amanda-n-[name] 4-ever"
> on the covers of math textbooks.
>

> 4. Mulder stumbles over a mysterious labratory that is involed
> in dark, diabolical cloning experiments; the first
> botched experiment was "The Bay City Rollers," and after
> years of trial and error (Menudo, NKOTB,) they have finally
> perfected the method of creating bubblegum boy bands that
> can churn out soft-rock-syrup-hits to speak to the fantasies
> of teenage girls everywhere. In a shocking development,
> Scully discovers that the entire cloning experiment was
> financed by TEEN BEAT and TIGER BEAT magazines.
>
> Taylor, you're not a stupid teenybopper; just a typical one. <G>
>
> Repeat after me: Not EVERY SINGLE POPULAR CULTURE ITEM can
> be successfully crossed over with X-Files. (Or any *other*
> item, for that matter.)
>

> Next thing you know, they'll be an XF/Pokemon crossover.


Now, it has been pointed out to me that what I wrote could be
considered putting the original poster (Taylor, uh..Mulder)
down for:

1. Liking a specific boyband;
2. Wanting to see the characters from a favorite TV show interact
with her favorite boyband in a fic;
3. Being a teenybopper;
4. Asking for someone to write RealPersonFic, which as we all
know (repeat after me:) Is A Bad Thing.

Honestly, I was more amused than anything else. I remember my older
sister obsessing over Shaun Cassidy and John Travolta and the Bay
City Rollers in the mid-to-late-70s. She read Tiger Beat and Teen
Beat and all those magazines that are, frankly, written to cater
to the fantasies of teenage girls. And by amused, I mean that in
a nostalgic sense, not in a pointing-a-finger sense.

If I offended anyone, I *am* truly sorry.

But, and this *just* occured to me, when I posted my original short
story here, Stalkers, about...egads, more than five years ago I think,
I got roundly flamed, toasted, bar-b-queued and generally thrashed
for writing dialog containing such things as "Fox" and "Dana."

The *community* set me straight on what was expected.

So again, if there are any hurt feelings, Taylor, I apologize. Just
think of me as an old coot (33!) that doesn't "get" the appeal of an
XF/Nsync crossover. And, if you really want a story like that:
Write it. After all, that's what the group is about. Creating. <G>

Dawson

Annie

unread,
Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
Brandon Ray wrote:

> I'm sorry if you have a problem handling criticism of Dawson's opinions;

Correction: I don't have a problem handling it at all.

<looking back at previous post with smug satisfaction>

:-)

I *enjoyed* handling it...it was my *pleasure* to handle it.

And I don't need your supercilious sympathy, thank you very much, so
please be so kind as to keep it to yourself.

> it's too bad
> you, too, had to resort to public ridicule as a response.

<shrug> Three words: Pot, Kettle, Black

Annie

Outlandish Salmonid Fish

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
>
>"...wanna be your everything..."
>
>*bam!*
>
>*ow*
>
>*thud*.
>
>THE END.

Heh... this should be posted, definitely a classic.


-Rebecca

Tom Mabe

unread,
Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
While I agree with Dawson that some things just shouldn't be attempted, I
have to disagree about some RL fic. Hit me now, I can't believe I'm
admitting to this:

I used to write fic about Duran Duran. Of course, we (my friends and I,
among whom it circulated) didn't call it that. We called it: "The Saga". And
we illustrated it. Sometimes with the 12 year-old version of naughty
pictures. I have a whole scrapbook full of it from my best friend.

From there we moved on to members of... A-Ha (bet you don't remember them
fondly, do you?) and finally to... *burying head in shame* Bon Jovi. I still
maintain that my story where Jon Bon Jovi morphs into a flag-waving
superhero named "Cheese Puppy" to fight his ex-bandmate, the evil Richie
SPambora (the Spam King) was one of the funniest things I've ever written.

No, we didn't distribute said fic to millions of folks around the world. But
if we could've, ladies and gents, we would've. And though there are those
who would argue to the contrary, Jon Bon Jovi is a real person.

So let's say, for the sake of arguement, that "Cheese Puppy" was posted
worldwide on Usenet and I received tons of bitter, bitter feedback. Does
this hurt Jon Bon Jovi in any way? Nope. Did the "actorfic" written about DD
leaving his wife for GA hurt them in any way? Lemme see... DD is still
married, rich, gorgeous and living in Hollywood with his famous, gorgeous
wife and beautiful, healthy daughter. Nope, he seems ok. Is that fan any
more likely to turn out to be an obsessive stalker than someone who writes
fic about Mulder and Scully tying each other up and whipping one another
with a cat o'nine tails? I doubt it. In the end, RL stars like to bitch and
moan about invasion of their privacy, but come on... I just don't have any
sympathy when the invasion comes in the form of kids writing Nsync stories.
I just don't. It seems like celebrity whining to me.

And considering that any one of us could march right over to alt.sex.stories
(not that I've BEEN there, mind you... ehem... moving on) and read about
some geeky teen getting a mind-lock on Britney Speers or however she spells
it and then doin' the wild thing, I think we're probably holding ourselves
to a standard that just seems silly in the whole scheme of things. Does this
mean I'm going to go write actorfic? No. Would I ever? Nope, seems
tasteless. Particularly about two people who'd rather die than have sex with
one another. Now, a 14 year-old me and Jon Bon Jovi? That's a different
story...

Jess


Dawson Rambo <dra...@airmonitor.com> wrote in message
news:38FCA339...@airmonitor.com...

DBKate2

unread,
Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
>No, we didn't distribute said fic to millions of folks around the world. But
>if we could've, ladies and gents, we would've. And though there are those
>who would argue to the contrary, Jon Bon Jovi is a real person.
>


There's a big difference between a 12 year old sharing Real People fic and
passing around the notebook with pals versus an adult posting such things on
Usenet/the WWW.

And that difference is the adult should just know better than to do something
moronic like that. (Yeah, I said moronic, and I'll say it again, just to keep
yer hair nice and curled.<g>)

IMHO, there's nothing wrong with *writing* RP fic if that's your bag.

But there is absolutely no need to post it.

None. Zilch. Zippo.

If we are able to claim copyright to posted original fiction on the internet,
then I'd say the "stars" of Real People fic should be able to claim
libel/slander, just as if the fic were a paper published work.

Can't have everything both ways.

The internet may be the Wild West at this point in time, but it won't be for
that much longer and when the big Law Hammer comes down, how we act now may
very well lend to the shape of our not-too-distant future.

Don't mean to sound scary, but sometimes restraint is a good thing.

Kate

Tom Mabe

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
Just wanted to say, on a lighthearted note, that I've found one!

While standing in line at the grocery store today, I picked up a tabloid
sporting a headline about how the various brains on celebrity Millionnaire
did.

And guess what? Our beloved Princeton Alum was beaten out by a boy from...
Nsync! (or some such pasty boy band). Oh, the humanity!

Jess

Taylor Mulder <bell...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000415213117...@ng-xb1.aol.com...


> Yeah, yeah, yeah I may just be some "stupid teeny-bopper", but I bet that
some
> of you women were sitting right next to my mother at the Beatles concert
> screaming for Paul McCartney :) he-hee Anyway, does anyone have any
clue of
> any *NSYNC/XF crossovers??????????? Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
>

SilverXmoonlight

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
Yeah, well I just wanted to thank you soooo much for replying to my original
post! (sarcasm there people). I really used to enjoy this newsgroups because
the people here were very encouraging to others writers.

In response to some things:

<<Now, it has been pointed out to me that what I wrote could be
considered putting the original poster (Taylor, uh..Mulder)
down for:>>

Um . . . yes . . .Taylor, MULDER! I know that I'm not the first person to have
ever written that.

<<1. Liking a specific boyband;>> Ok....let's see.....I'm a teenage girl with
raging
hormones and I get a little happy when I see 5 cute guys onstage
singing
all the stuff that I want to hear a guy singing to girls about. K?

<<2. Wanting to see the characters from a favorite TV show interact

with her favorite boyband in a fic>> That certaintly makes sense doesn't
it?
Fanfiction is all about writing about the things that you love!

<<3. Being a teenybopper>> I won't even dignify that with a response.

<<4. Asking for someone to write RealPersonFic, which as we all know (repeat

after me:) Is A Bad Thing.>> I don't believe that I ASKED someone to write
this kind of story. If I did, I apologize. But c'mon guys, I sure as heck
know that RealPersonFic has been written before.

I really don't wanna be flamed for this so don't even think about it. I just
get a little pissed when people squash others' ideas.

Taylor MULDER

patness

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
>Taylor Mulder <bell...@aol.com> wrote in message

(Sarcasm on) Oh, thanks. (Sarcasm off) You've ruined
what many of us didn't want to know until actually
watching the Celebrity Millionaire show.


Tom Mabe

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to

Dawson Rambo <dra...@airmonitor.com> wrote in message
news:38FCFD95...@airmonitor.com...
>
>

> > So let's say, for the sake of arguement, that "Cheese Puppy" was posted
> > worldwide on Usenet and I received tons of bitter, bitter feedback. Does
> > this hurt Jon Bon Jovi in any way? Nope. Did the "actorfic" written
about DD
> > leaving his wife for GA hurt them in any way? Lemme see... DD is still
>

> Let's talk about that for a moment. Does it hurt DD in a direct,
> actionable
> way? Taking for the moment the idea of slander/libel out of the
> equation,
> munch on this for a moment or two:
>
> We all know that DD has a love/hate relationship with his fans. And when
> you mention "Internet" fans and things like fanfic, newsgroups and
> websites, he has gotten *very* skittery in the past. Things like
> actorfic
> that mention the breakup of his marriage and all kinds of other...
> inappropriate things...cannot contribute in any sense to improving
> DD's opinion of the fanbase. I may be the lone voice in the wilderness
> here, but I really wouldn't hate an eighth season. Or more movies.
> Right now, negotiations hinge on Fox settling his lawsuit about
> profits re FX resales, but at some point in the future we just *don't
> know* if stuff like this would affect (effect?) his desire to continue
> with the FM character.

Sorry, but I just don't think what DD thinks about fanfic should influence
what I write/don't write about him. So he hates his fans. What an ingrate. I
had a very long discussion with my hubby the other day about the difference
between actors and *stars*. Julia Roberts may not be my cup of tea, but
she's always gracious and grateful. She never bad-mouths her fans, doesn't
call someone an "idiot" (I'm just quoting the man himself here) if someone
recognizes her incorrectly, etc. That, in my opinion, is a star. You can't
tell me she's any less famous, or her life is any less difficult, than DD's.
But she's not on TV bitching about how hard it is to be her. If he decided
not to play Mulder again because his fans were bugging him, more power to
him. I'd rather admire someone who appreciates the role we play in their
life.

>
> It could be credibly argued that extreme actorfic ends up hurting
> only ourselves.

That would be if they read it, which they don't.

> Actually, I have to disagree with you, but with a condition. A person
> who were to directly, openly inject themselves into a fic with the
> actor,
> and have violence or sexual activity directed towards that RL person...

Ok, let's split this in half. Violence, sure, would make me nervous. But a
kid writing a fic where they have sex with a member of Nsync? Nope, that
seems fairly harmless to me.

> And for all that say, "Oh, Dawson's full of bullspit," I just want
> to point to the current Brooke Shields problem. The man that was
> just recently arrested for stalking her had written hundreds of
> letters to her, replete with "fantasies" about what he wanted to
> do with her sexually and so forth. (Complete with nekkid pitchers
> of selfsame "author.") There is no way for a cop to determine what
> is "fantasy" in the "good" sense and what is "fantasy" in the "bad"
> sense when it comes down to it.

Now, there does seem to me to be a difference between writing a fantasy and
posting it on Usenet, and finding out the person's address and sending them
dirty pictures. If someone would like to write a sexy piece about me, please
feel free. But don't send me photos of your dink. I don't wanna see them.

>
> So, while writing about a real person is not necessarily an
> immediate warning to lock the author up, if it came to the attention
> of the Person In Question (in this case, DD,) and he were to read
> about how Author "A" wrote a story where "DD" divorces "TL" and
> then marries "Character X", I'd say that he might be offended and
> a little ticked off and possibly a little wary.

Probably. But I'd guess that if he logged on tomorrow and stumbled onto the
home of the David Duchovny Estrogen Brigade, he'd be "offended and a little
ticked off and possibly a little wary" because that's the kinda guy he is.
He wants his cake, ie fame and loads of money, and to eat it too.

>
> It really *does* come down to separating fantasy from reality;
> How many actorfic authors, do you think, would write about DD
> if he were a lit professor at Yale and not an actor? His portrayal
> of FM and other characters in his TV/movie appearences are how
> he became known to his fanbase...not by sitting down and having
> dinner with him. Or playing basketball. Or anything that the
> REAL PERSON does in his REAL LIFE.

Exactly. I do Capice *insert Tony Soprano voice here*. That's precisely my
point. Some kid writing about Nsync, or even someone writing a little story
where DD hooks up with them after ditching Tea isn't based on RL, any more
than our stories of FM are. They're just fantasies. I think they're mostly
harmless. Those that aren't wouldn't be detoured by not being allowed to
post them here.

>
> Capice? <G>


>
> > moan about invasion of their privacy, but come on... I just don't have
any
> > sympathy when the invasion comes in the form of kids writing Nsync
stories.
> > I just don't. It seems like celebrity whining to me.
>

> Perspective is all I can say. From our perspective, looking at DD from
> our own positions, we see someone making $100,000 per episode for a job
> that frankly doesn't look that hard. You spend a lot of time waiting
> for setups, you get a call to the set, the director blocks the scene,
> gives some instructions, and ACTION! is called. You spew words that
> someone else (usually) wrote, and wait for the director's "CUT!" call.
> If you muss it up, you do it again. Back to the trailer for an Evian
> and a phone call to Tea and the Baby.

Having worked on film sets, yep, that's about how it is. For the actors. The
crew spend the same amount of time on the set, work all day straight, get
paid a hellova lot less and everyone yells at them.

>
> Sweet deal.
>
> Except:
>
> 1. For all time, you've given up your privacy.

So don't go into television. No one's making you. And you can't tell me he
didn't think this might happen.

> 2. Can't go out in public without sunglasses, a hat, and a fake
> mustache.

Certainly you can. Barbara Walters said the other day that she goes grocery
shopping with her daughter. She's a hellova lot more famous than DD. And she
said, yes, fans came up to her and she just graciously said hi and moved on.

> 3. People write all sorts of things about you. (Speaking of tabloids
> here.)

Wah. People said untrue things about me in college. I got over it. Another
thing they *knew* might happen.

> 4. Complete strangers think they know you because of those selfsame
> words you spewed.

Again, wouldn't it be terrible to be instantly liked and admired by
millions. Wah. So there are a few bad apples. I would think getting to do
what you enjoy (instead of say... working the check-out counter at your
local Seven-Eleven for $7 an hour with a chance that you'll get robbed and
shot and then going to your second job so you can support your kids) and
getting paid millions per annum for it would ease the pain.

> 5. People think they OWN you because they're a fan.

Very few people. I imagine the chances of crashing that car the studio gave
you are higher than someone hurting you because they're a psycho fan.

> 6. Photographers stalk you, wanting pictures of you doing strange
> things.

Then don't do them. Ever notice there are a lot of famous people who manage
NOT to get photographed doing something stupid, liking getting their toes
sucked by someone other than their hubby? That's because they don't do
stupid things in public.

> 7. Selfsame photogs often taunt you to do something fscked up so
> they'll sell more copies of whatever is they're shooting for.

Learn to control your temper. You don't have to be Sean Penn. And I haven't
noticed it hurting his career at all, either.

I'm sorry, Dawson, but I just don't buy it. Last year, when my mother was
dying 3000 miles away and I couldn't afford to even fly out and say
good-bye, I heard DD bitching on the radio about his life. I kept thinking:
Jesus, he can at least afford to go visit his dying mom, you know? And ever
since then, my tolerance level for this crap has been about *this* high.

>
> NOT ALL people, no. But some. And where is the line on what is
> acceptable
> behiavor towards a celeb? When does it get too creepy for the celeb to
> take? I think if someone wrote a fanfic about me and Annie breaking
> up, I'd be more than a trifle pissed, and I'm a NOBODY.

Wouldn't really bother me. They don't KNOW me.

Ok, this all said, I agree it's a tad creepy. But I just think there's a
very fine line here. When we write long stories where *Mulder's* privates
are discussed in full, gory detail, don't you think we are therefore saying
we've thought a lot about DD's privates? I know I have :). And if I were DD,
I'd sure think *I* was the one being discussed, especially if I were DD :).

> So because a newsgroup *dedicated* to speaking about all levels of
> sexual
> expression, including some of the stuff that frankly belong in
> *anyone's*
> gutter (I have visited the group, and I have read some of the stories.
> No
> "er, um" for me.)

ah, but you aren't an innocent little blushing violet with a reputation for
purity to protect... *wink wink, nudge nudge*

we're going to lower *our* standards? Sorry...that's
> why
> towns have zoning laws and red light districts. Alt.sex.stories and it's
> companion groups (alt.sex.stories.incest, alt.sex.stories.cuckholds,
> alt.sex.stories.bestiality, and so forth,) are the "bad" part of town.
> Everyone knows it. Yes, there are stories there of committed, loving
> sexual expression between two married hetrosexuals, but they're rare.

Actually, that's why I write XF smut. Because it is loving and sweet and
doesn't belong on that newsgroup. I'm just saying the line is getting
thinner and thinner...

>
> > to a standard that just seems silly in the whole scheme of things. Does
this
> > mean I'm going to go write actorfic? No. Would I ever? Nope, seems
> > tasteless. Particularly about two people who'd rather die than have sex
with
> > one another. Now, a 14 year-old me and Jon Bon Jovi? That's a different
> > story...
>

> It is tasteless. And guiding new authors or younger (or perhaps
> immature)
> authors into the areas of tastefulness is something that communities
> *do*. It's just not enough to stand back and say, "Hey, the Internet
> is the Wild West right now, and someday they'll be told what's Right
> and what's Wrong." I'd rather not wait for a Cease and Desist order. <G>

Agreed. I don't really want to see actorfic all over this group either. But
I don't think we can ridicule anyone for writing about real people as long
as it's done with harmless intent. I just read an entire novel based around
Fidel Castro ("Castro's Curveball") and NONE of it was true, but it was
still a good novel. I wouldn't tell the man who wrote it to stop writing
about real people, would you? Where do we draw the line? Is it only
distasteful if there's sex? Or is it ok to write vividly about Cuban
dictators, but not actors? I just don't see the distinction.

So should I be boycotting "Jefferson in Paris", too?

>
> But, that's all just my opinion.
>
> I could be wrong.

Nah, we're probably both right, in varying degrees, which is the joy of free
speech in the first place.

Jess

>
> Dawson

japp...@ecn.ab.ca

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Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
Deirdre (dei...@x-philes.com) wrote:
: God, I'm being gloom and doom the past couple of days aren't I? I
: think I need to go hide under the desk for a while.

Ah, cheer up, De. We all have those kinds of days. =) If you come out from
under the desk, I'll buy you a milkshake... =)

japp...@ecn.ab.ca

unread,
Apr 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/18/00
to
Deirdre (dei...@x-philes.com) wrote:

<pikasnip!>

: > Fanfiction is all about writing about the things that you love!
: Fanfic is about writing stories based upon television shows.

I hate to nitpick, Deirdre, but no. Break the term "fanfic" back to it's
origin terms. It's fiction written (drawn, taped, filmed, etc.) based on
material that the creator of the piece is a fan of, be it X-Files, Van
Halen, Foxtrot, Dante's Inferno, Toy Story or even Space Moose <making
symbolic gestures against evil & stupidity>. If I write a piece based on
Michael Moorecock's Eternal Champion character Elric of Melnibone being at
a Weird Al concert, it's fanfiction, and depending where I put the focus,
it's either a Weird Al fanfic or an Elric fanfic, or a crossover piece on
both. Neither one is a television show, but it remains a fanfic piece.

My $0.27...

Dawson Rambo

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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Tom Mabe wrote:
>
> While I agree with Dawson that some things just shouldn't be attempted, I
> have to disagree about some RL fic. Hit me now, I can't believe I'm
> admitting to this:

Ah, donna worry 'bout it. <-- Chief Engineer Scotty voice, for some
odd reason.

>
> I used to write fic about Duran Duran. Of course, we (my friends and I,
> among whom it circulated) didn't call it that. We called it: "The Saga". And
> we illustrated it. Sometimes with the 12 year-old version of naughty
> pictures. I have a whole scrapbook full of it from my best friend.

I have it on *very* good authority that a group of 30-and-40 something
wimmin not so long ago and in a galaxy very much like this one had a
"saga" going about...<ewp!>...Michael Crawford. The Real Guy, not any
of his characters. And I have it on equally good authority that it
contained...naughty bits. So donna worry 'bout it. It was confined
to a small (<=5 people) email list.



> No, we didn't distribute said fic to millions of folks around the world. But
> if we could've, ladies and gents, we would've. And though there are those
> who would argue to the contrary, Jon Bon Jovi is a real person.

Hey, I quoted "Wanted Dead or Alive" in a fic.

> So let's say, for the sake of arguement, that "Cheese Puppy" was posted
> worldwide on Usenet and I received tons of bitter, bitter feedback. Does
> this hurt Jon Bon Jovi in any way? Nope. Did the "actorfic" written about DD
> leaving his wife for GA hurt them in any way? Lemme see... DD is still

Let's talk about that for a moment. Does it hurt DD in a direct,


actionable
way? Taking for the moment the idea of slander/libel out of the
equation,
munch on this for a moment or two:

We all know that DD has a love/hate relationship with his fans. And when
you mention "Internet" fans and things like fanfic, newsgroups and
websites, he has gotten *very* skittery in the past. Things like
actorfic
that mention the breakup of his marriage and all kinds of other...
inappropriate things...cannot contribute in any sense to improving
DD's opinion of the fanbase. I may be the lone voice in the wilderness
here, but I really wouldn't hate an eighth season. Or more movies.
Right now, negotiations hinge on Fox settling his lawsuit about
profits re FX resales, but at some point in the future we just *don't
know* if stuff like this would affect (effect?) his desire to continue
with the FM character.

It could be credibly argued that extreme actorfic ends up hurting
only ourselves.

> wife and beautiful, healthy daughter. Nope, he seems ok. Is that fan any


> more likely to turn out to be an obsessive stalker than someone who writes
> fic about Mulder and Scully tying each other up and whipping one another
> with a cat o'nine tails? I doubt it. In the end, RL stars like to bitch and

Actually, I have to disagree with you, but with a condition. A person


who were to directly, openly inject themselves into a fic with the
actor,
and have violence or sexual activity directed towards that RL person...

if I were a security officer assigned to the actor, or an LAPD detective
in the Stalking Squad, I'd have to admit that if I came across a "fan"
writing such things, they'd get a second, third and even fourth glance
from me. Just writing about the RL person itself is not an indication
of *potential future problems*, but when the "writer" partakes of his
or her own story with the actual RL actor, then...yes, I'd say there
exists something that needs to be examined.

And for all that say, "Oh, Dawson's full of bullspit," I just want
to point to the current Brooke Shields problem. The man that was
just recently arrested for stalking her had written hundreds of
letters to her, replete with "fantasies" about what he wanted to
do with her sexually and so forth. (Complete with nekkid pitchers
of selfsame "author.") There is no way for a cop to determine what
is "fantasy" in the "good" sense and what is "fantasy" in the "bad"
sense when it comes down to it.

So, while writing about a real person is not necessarily an

immediate warning to lock the author up, if it came to the attention
of the Person In Question (in this case, DD,) and he were to read
about how Author "A" wrote a story where "DD" divorces "TL" and
then marries "Character X", I'd say that he might be offended and
a little ticked off and possibly a little wary.

It really *does* come down to separating fantasy from reality;


How many actorfic authors, do you think, would write about DD
if he were a lit professor at Yale and not an actor? His portrayal
of FM and other characters in his TV/movie appearences are how
he became known to his fanbase...not by sitting down and having
dinner with him. Or playing basketball. Or anything that the
REAL PERSON does in his REAL LIFE.

Capice? <G>

> moan about invasion of their privacy, but come on... I just don't have any
> sympathy when the invasion comes in the form of kids writing Nsync stories.
> I just don't. It seems like celebrity whining to me.

Perspective is all I can say. From our perspective, looking at DD from


our own positions, we see someone making $100,000 per episode for a job
that frankly doesn't look that hard. You spend a lot of time waiting
for setups, you get a call to the set, the director blocks the scene,
gives some instructions, and ACTION! is called. You spew words that
someone else (usually) wrote, and wait for the director's "CUT!" call.
If you muss it up, you do it again. Back to the trailer for an Evian
and a phone call to Tea and the Baby.

Sweet deal.

Except:

1. For all time, you've given up your privacy.

2. Can't go out in public without sunglasses, a hat, and a fake
mustache.

3. People write all sorts of things about you. (Speaking of tabloids
here.)

4. Complete strangers think they know you because of those selfsame
words you spewed.

5. People think they OWN you because they're a fan.

6. Photographers stalk you, wanting pictures of you doing strange
things.

7. Selfsame photogs often taunt you to do something fscked up so
they'll sell more copies of whatever is they're shooting for.

NOT ALL people, no. But some. And where is the line on what is


acceptable
behiavor towards a celeb? When does it get too creepy for the celeb to
take? I think if someone wrote a fanfic about me and Annie breaking
up, I'd be more than a trifle pissed, and I'm a NOBODY.

The above examples are extreme yes. BUT THEY HAVE HAPPENED. Maybe not
all of them to DD, but they have happened to celebs of all statures
from all medias.

> And considering that any one of us could march right over to alt.sex.stories
> (not that I've BEEN there, mind you... ehem... moving on) and read about
> some geeky teen getting a mind-lock on Britney Speers or however she spells
> it and then doin' the wild thing, I think we're probably holding ourselves

So because a newsgroup *dedicated* to speaking about all levels of


sexual
expression, including some of the stuff that frankly belong in
*anyone's*
gutter (I have visited the group, and I have read some of the stories.
No

"er, um" for me.) we're going to lower *our* standards? Sorry...that's


why
towns have zoning laws and red light districts. Alt.sex.stories and it's
companion groups (alt.sex.stories.incest, alt.sex.stories.cuckholds,
alt.sex.stories.bestiality, and so forth,) are the "bad" part of town.
Everyone knows it. Yes, there are stories there of committed, loving
sexual expression between two married hetrosexuals, but they're rare.

> to a standard that just seems silly in the whole scheme of things. Does this


> mean I'm going to go write actorfic? No. Would I ever? Nope, seems
> tasteless. Particularly about two people who'd rather die than have sex with
> one another. Now, a 14 year-old me and Jon Bon Jovi? That's a different
> story...

It is tasteless. And guiding new authors or younger (or perhaps


immature)
authors into the areas of tastefulness is something that communities
*do*. It's just not enough to stand back and say, "Hey, the Internet
is the Wild West right now, and someday they'll be told what's Right
and what's Wrong." I'd rather not wait for a Cease and Desist order. <G>

But, that's all just my opinion.

I could be wrong.

Dawson

Tinka

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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Dawson Rambo wrote:

> How many actorfic authors, do you think, would write about DD
> if he were a lit professor at Yale and not an actor?

*raises hand reluctantly*.. uhmmm.. I'm not a an actorfic-writer .. but a lit
professor at Yale sounds extremely yummy to my English majoring ears .. I could be
tempted ..but not to write DD-fic, tho'... *clears throat*.. I'm one of those
chicks who go to hear writers speak about their work .. and I've been known to
swoon over a few writers in my time .. and a ph.d. never did hurt anybody's
charisma .. and.. uhmmm.. could we have an Alternative Universe fic where Mulder
was not with the FBI or a psychologist (wait a sec, that latter bit did happen..),
but instead was a lit professor at Yale?? *hopeful look in her eyes* .. and he'd
quote poetry all the time and deconstruct stuff and wear tweed jackets?? Oh,
that'd be HOT!! *crawling back into the woodwork blushing*

--
Tinka

----------
One of the advantages of being
disorderly is that one is constantly
making exciting discoveries.

--A.A. Milne

Lauryn

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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In article <Pine.NEB.3.96.100041...@shell-1.enteract.com>,
Deirdre <dei...@x-philes.com> writes:

>> Fanfiction is all about writing about the things that you love!
>
>Fanfic is about writing stories based upon television shows.

I hate to be picky, because I know that Deirdre is aware of this, but fanfic is
*technically* about writing stories based on television shows, movies, books,
and other media featuring fictional characters.

Sorry for being anal ;)

Lauryn

+++++
starmekitten at ihateclowns.com
+++++
"I don't care what he does outside the band. I don't care if he shoots heroin
up his arse with a rocket launcher." -- Noel on Liam

/\amanda/\

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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Hmmm. Good thing I was bored and decided to read this, seeing as how my
imagination has been tarnished. (And my name...I wonder if that was mere
coincedence. Or maybe I'm just paranoid...but that's another story.)

Imagine my surprise to come here and read how I wanted to write an
actorfic that ended the marraige of DD and TL. Interesting. And it was
called 'god-awful.' If that's not a personal (and inaccurate) attack, I
don't know what is.

Here, I will repost the proposed storyline. Just for historical
accuracy's sake.

---------------

It begins with DD and TL at home. Nothing really happens. Some mindless
dialouge for exposition. This part ends with DD going off for work on
TXF.

Next we have a script. It's basically a cut of a screenplay in which M/S
kiss. Very generic, nothing that hasn't been in the mildest MSR, except
this is in script form. It basically serves as more exposition.

Next we have the cast of TXF sitting down for a preliminary reading of
the script. The script, as we find out was written by TL. (I got this
from TL and Gary Shandling being in DD's upcoming TXF ep.)

Note:This part is in script form, but it is NOT the script. It's the
actors reading the script.

In this ep, we come to find out Scully has been experimenting with a
virtual reality game, not unlike what was in First Person Shooter.
Except this is a game in which you can download anyone to play with. One
of Scully's chosen characters is an actor. (I've always suspected her as
the type to secretly swoon over someone on TV. <g>) Guess who? DD. (This
requires a good amount of acceptance on the reader's behalf. No, this
could never reasonably happen. It's just a thought I had at lunch
today.) Well, in this game, Scully and DD fall in love. (I don't see the
need for smut in this one. Knowing their feelings is enough.)

Next scene, we come back to the actors at the reading, but I begin
writing in prose now. DD and GA have a converstation as to why TL wrote
this, don't come to any conclusions, and that's that.

---------------

See? Everyone returns to their 'normal' lives after I'm done. No
celebrites were harmed in the writing of this fic. Etc etc. Yeah. Just
wanted to clear that nasty little bugger up.

And the Dennis Miller quotes get old after a while...but that's just my


opinion. I could be wrong.

--
*****************amanda udoff*****************
we are all in he stared up into
the gutter but the universe
some of us are until he was dizzy
looking at the with infinity
stars.-wilde- -poppy z. brite-
************** http://udoff.net **************

Joyce Reynolds-Ward

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:29:27 -0500, Deirdre <dei...@x-philes.com>
wrote:

snip

>I don't want to get into other media because it looks more and more
>like fanfic based on some fiction worlds is going to be pushed
>underground in the near future :( Mainly those based upon book-only
>universes. And then that raises questions for us - do we dare do an
>xover with one of those fictional worlds with the knowledge that the
>lawyers might come? I know some authors around here have been
>struggling with that question in relation to Mercades Lackey's
>Valdemar series for the past three years.

Star Trek basically does that now with the "Strange New Worlds"
anthology--major requirement is no previous professional publication.

jrw

xphile01

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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Just out of curiosity.


DOES ANYONE ON THIS NEWSGROUP GET ALONG??????

MY GOD IT'S NOTHING BUT A CONSTANT FLAME WAR!

ALL YOU PEOPLE EVER DO IS FIGHT!

I've been on this list for over a year and everytime I turn around it's
bitch, moan, and complain. What the hell happened to all the stories???

David

My opinion counts for everything.

Brandon Ray

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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There are plenty of stories. And if you think atxc is bad, you ought to
check out atxf.

xphile01 wrote:

--

Kipler

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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I'm amazed and amused that I missed this whole thread. Jess bravely confesses:

<< I used to write fic about Duran Duran.>>

And she grew out of it without becoming a psychotic celebrity stalker. <g>

One thing that constantly amazes me on this newsgroup is the utter earnestness
with which adults address the peculiarities of childhood. Bill Cosby used to
do a good bit about how kids were, when judged by adult standards, insane.
Luckily for kids, we *don't* judge their actions by adult standards. We take
them where they are, and we try to guide them as they move forward.

You can't take a teenage brain and give it adult literary sensibilities merely
by saying, "X is good and Y is bad." The reason Jess wouldn't do Duran Duran
fiction now is because she's moved past that developmental stage - not because
some adult showed her the correct way of seeing the world.

We got to be silly, enthusiastic, and infatuated when we were kids. Expecting
the kids who come after us to be smarter, more mature, and more discerning than
we were is unrealistic.

--Kipler

Tom Mabe

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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Well I certainly could have told you how much they won, but I didn't. And
since everyone who was invited on the show got to go on, I don't think I
spoiled anything. Next time I'll include "spoilers" for Millionnaire
(sarcasm on).

Jess

patness <pat...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8dj53...@enews4.newsguy.com...

/\amanda/\

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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Deirdre wrote:

> *scratch*
>
> You were referring to this?


>
> Dawson wrote:
> <<So, while writing about a real person is not necessarily an
> immediate warning to lock the author up, if it came to the attention
> of the Person In Question (in this case, DD,) and he were to read
> about how Author "A" wrote a story where "DD" divorces "TL" and
> then marries "Character X", I'd say that he might be offended and
> a little ticked off and possibly a little wary. >>
>

<<choppity chop>>

Actually, it was more of a combination of that that this:

"Probably comes from the utter lack of restraint that your younger
authors (typically) show. Like that God-awful actorfic about a
month ago that allowed me to once again step in it. Kids just don't
consider the ramifications of things like that."

Dawson Rambo

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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Tinka wrote:


>
> Dawson Rambo wrote:
>
> > How many actorfic authors, do you think, would write about DD
> > if he were a lit professor at Yale and not an actor?
>

> *raises hand reluctantly*.. uhmmm.. I'm not a an actorfic-writer .. but a lit
> professor at Yale sounds extremely yummy to my English majoring ears .. I could be

And what do you think would happen, say, if DD was not an actor but a
lit
professor at Yale, and someone sat down and wrote a fic about him that
was disrespectful in any/all the ways detailed downthread from this
post,
and your Evil College Roomate(tm) found it in your notebook, Xeroxed it
and spread it all over campus?

Dawson

Dawson Rambo

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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Tom Mabe wrote:
>
> Dawson Rambo <dra...@airmonitor.com> wrote in message
> news:38FCFD95...@airmonitor.com...

> > DD's opinion of the fanbase. I may be the lone voice in the wilderness


> > here, but I really wouldn't hate an eighth season. Or more movies.
> > Right now, negotiations hinge on Fox settling his lawsuit about
> > profits re FX resales, but at some point in the future we just *don't
> > know* if stuff like this would affect (effect?) his desire to continue
> > with the FM character.
>
> Sorry, but I just don't think what DD thinks about fanfic should influence
> what I write/don't write about him. So he hates his fans. What an ingrate. I
> had a very long discussion with my hubby the other day about the difference
> between actors and *stars*. Julia Roberts may not be my cup of tea, but
> she's always gracious and grateful. She never bad-mouths her fans, doesn't

I will grant the point that DD sometimes seems to not get the connection
between his fanbase and his paycheck. He wants his fans (projection
here,
folks,) to just nod and say thank you and go quietly into the darkness.
No loud noises, no sudden movements, etc. No argument there.

> > It could be credibly argued that extreme actorfic ends up hurting
> > only ourselves.
>
> That would be if they read it, which they don't.

With that, I disagree. Celebs have staffs and publicists and all sorts
of "employees" dedicated to protecting AND projecting their images.
Agents, managers, etc. And with the six degrees of separation issue,
DD does hear about some of these things happening. He doesn't have
to read them to be aware of them. (I will admit that he has no grounds
*judging* them before reading them, however.)

> > Actually, I have to disagree with you, but with a condition. A person
> > who were to directly, openly inject themselves into a fic with the
> > actor, and have violence or sexual activity directed towards that RL person...
>
> Ok, let's split this in half. Violence, sure, would make me nervous. But a
> kid writing a fic where they have sex with a member of Nsync? Nope, that
> seems fairly harmless to me.

Well, we have to disagree on that. As a teenager, I'd have to
sorta-kinda
agree that it's mostly harmless. But as the Person In Question grows
older, and hopefully "more mature," if they're still writing such
things,
it is very very much a danger signal. And, to quickly short-circuit the
"alt.sex.stories/Brittany Spears" argument, to my mind that's somehow
different because that ng is *about* sex. There's a certain amount of
camp expected there. In ass, it's somehow...normal, if that makes any
sense.

> > And for all that say, "Oh, Dawson's full of bullspit," I just want
> > to point to the current Brooke Shields problem. The man that was
> > just recently arrested for stalking her had written hundreds of
> > letters to her, replete with "fantasies" about what he wanted to
> > do with her sexually and so forth. (Complete with nekkid pitchers
> > of selfsame "author.") There is no way for a cop to determine what
> > is "fantasy" in the "good" sense and what is "fantasy" in the "bad"
> > sense when it comes down to it.
>
> Now, there does seem to me to be a difference between writing a fantasy and
> posting it on Usenet, and finding out the person's address and sending them
> dirty pictures. If someone would like to write a sexy piece about me, please
> feel free. But don't send me photos of your dink. I don't wanna see them.

I'm less concerned, I guess, with the isolated incidents of writing a
sexual fantasy involving a celeb then when that problem escalates into
something more. Too often, it seems, we stand back and say that "Well,
that's not too bad. That person is just writing about a fantasy. Nothing
to worry about." And then it CAN get worse and worse and worse until
you're
in the Brooke Shields problem. My point is not that every single person
that writes actor fic is a stalker-in-training, but that the action is
in-and-of-itself inappropriate, and *that's* what should be addressed.

> > So, while writing about a real person is not necessarily an
> > immediate warning to lock the author up, if it came to the attention
> > of the Person In Question (in this case, DD,) and he were to read
> > about how Author "A" wrote a story where "DD" divorces "TL" and
> > then marries "Character X", I'd say that he might be offended and
> > a little ticked off and possibly a little wary.
>
> Probably. But I'd guess that if he logged on tomorrow and stumbled onto the
> home of the David Duchovny Estrogen Brigade, he'd be "offended and a little
> ticked off and possibly a little wary" because that's the kinda guy he is.
> He wants his cake, ie fame and loads of money, and to eat it too.

Not too much argument there, but if we want to focus the discussion on
DD specifically, we can. If we want to talk about the larger issue of
actorfic, that's another ball of wax.

> > It really *does* come down to separating fantasy from reality;
> > How many actorfic authors, do you think, would write about DD
> > if he were a lit professor at Yale and not an actor? His portrayal
> > of FM and other characters in his TV/movie appearences are how
> > he became known to his fanbase...not by sitting down and having
> > dinner with him. Or playing basketball. Or anything that the
> > REAL PERSON does in his REAL LIFE.
>
> Exactly. I do Capice *insert Tony Soprano voice here*. That's precisely my
> point. Some kid writing about Nsync, or even someone writing a little story
> where DD hooks up with them after ditching Tea isn't based on RL, any more
> than our stories of FM are. They're just fantasies. I think they're mostly
> harmless. Those that aren't wouldn't be detoured by not being allowed to
> post them here.

Quoting you: "Mostly harmless." Really, that's my point. Mostly harmless
is not the same as "totally harmless."

> > Perspective is all I can say. From our perspective, looking at DD from
> > our own positions, we see someone making $100,000 per episode for a job
> > that frankly doesn't look that hard. You spend a lot of time waiting
> > for setups, you get a call to the set, the director blocks the scene,
> > gives some instructions, and ACTION! is called. You spew words that
> > someone else (usually) wrote, and wait for the director's "CUT!" call.
> > If you muss it up, you do it again. Back to the trailer for an Evian
> > and a phone call to Tea and the Baby.
>
> Having worked on film sets, yep, that's about how it is. For the actors. The
> crew spend the same amount of time on the set, work all day straight, get
> paid a hellova lot less and everyone yells at them.

No argument there. The crews work incredibly hard at a job they love,
and they aren't exactly starving, either.

> > 1. For all time, you've given up your privacy.
>
> So don't go into television. No one's making you. And you can't tell me he
> didn't think this might happen.

Just because is *does* happen doesn't mean it *should.* The argument of
"Oh, well, that's just the way the world IS" doesn't hold much water
for me, sorry.

> > 2. Can't go out in public without sunglasses, a hat, and a fake
> > mustache.
>
> Certainly you can. Barbara Walters said the other day that she goes grocery
> shopping with her daughter. She's a hellova lot more famous than DD. And she
> said, yes, fans came up to her and she just graciously said hi and moved on.

How many teenage female screaming fans does Barbara have? That's apples
and
oranges.

> > 3. People write all sorts of things about you. (Speaking of tabloids
> > here.)
>
> Wah. People said untrue things about me in college. I got over it. Another
> thing they *knew* might happen.

Now we talk about scope. Your college might have had at max, 100,000
enrolled
students. (Thinking like, Universty of Michigan here,) while the Star,
WWN,
and whateverthehellelse has circulations in the MILLIONS. I have five or
six friends that know about my various screw ups in life. I sure as hell
wouldn't want ten MILLION people knowing. OR being subjected to lies,
rumors and innuendos about me JUST BECAUSE I wanted to into a line
of work that is creative and satisfying.

> > 4. Complete strangers think they know you because of those selfsame
> > words you spewed.
>
> Again, wouldn't it be terrible to be instantly liked and admired by
> millions. Wah. So there are a few bad apples. I would think getting to do

I gotta tell you, writing a fic about the breakup of the marriage of an
actor isn't what I'd call "liking and admiring." Quite the opposite,
actually.

> > 5. People think they OWN you because they're a fan.
>
> Very few people. I imagine the chances of crashing that car the studio gave
> you are higher than someone hurting you because they're a psycho fan.

I have no idea on that. My point is that certain things are just
inappropriate, and actorfic is one of them. (Opinion)

> > 6. Photographers stalk you, wanting pictures of you doing strange
> > things.
>
> Then don't do them. Ever notice there are a lot of famous people who manage
> NOT to get photographed doing something stupid, liking getting their toes
> sucked by someone other than their hubby? That's because they don't do
> stupid things in public.

But we're all human, and we all make mistakes. Why should I have to
constantly
guard against being natural, human, normal in fear that a Globe
photographer
may be lurking in my rose bushes? I'm sorry, but the argument that "He
should have seen this coming" just doesn't play with me personally. I
honestly don't think that an actor's private life is any of my g-d
business.

> I'm sorry, Dawson, but I just don't buy it. Last year, when my mother was
> dying 3000 miles away and I couldn't afford to even fly out and say
> good-bye, I heard DD bitching on the radio about his life. I kept thinking:
> Jesus, he can at least afford to go visit his dying mom, you know? And ever
> since then, my tolerance level for this crap has been about *this* high.

I am sorry for the loss of your mother. I can't imagine what that did
to you. Celebs are spoiled. DD spun the wheel and came up a winner. He's
stated that when he signed the contract for XF, he doubted that it'd
make 6 eps, let alone 13, let alone 26. LET ALONE seven seasons. But
that doesn't mean that every aspect of his life becomes fodder for
his fans. It occurs because our culture allows and encourages it.

> Ok, this all said, I agree it's a tad creepy. But I just think there's a
> very fine line here. When we write long stories where *Mulder's* privates

I agree wholeheartedly: The line is *very* fine. But as a community, the
people that as a group create the enviornment that fanfic exists in,
can't we agree that RL/actorfic is something to be frowned upon?
Something
to be gently chastised about? "We understand, but...move on. Write about
characters, not about people." Isn't that what "community elders" are
FOR?

> are discussed in full, gory detail, don't you think we are therefore saying
> we've thought a lot about DD's privates? I know I have :). And if I were DD,
> I'd sure think *I* was the one being discussed, especially if I were DD :).

Sorry, with that I must disagree. Although I'd give DKS a "go" as our
British cousins say, GA does little for me in that regard.


> > So because a newsgroup *dedicated* to speaking about all levels of
> > sexual expression, including some of the stuff that frankly belong in
> > *anyone's* gutter (I have visited the group, and I have read some of the stories.
> > No> "er, um" for me.)
>
> ah, but you aren't an innocent little blushing violet with a reputation for
> purity to protect... *wink wink, nudge nudge*

This is true.


> > we're going to lower *our* standards? Sorry...that's why
> > towns have zoning laws and red light districts. Alt.sex.stories and it's
> > companion groups (alt.sex.stories.incest, alt.sex.stories.cuckholds,
> > alt.sex.stories.bestiality, and so forth,) are the "bad" part of town.
> > Everyone knows it. Yes, there are stories there of committed, loving
> > sexual expression between two married hetrosexuals, but they're rare.
>
> Actually, that's why I write XF smut. Because it is loving and sweet and
> doesn't belong on that newsgroup. I'm just saying the line is getting
> thinner and thinner...

Agreed. But the line has to be identified, and then discussed and
shown to those that want to participate. That's all I'm saying. Just
crossing your arms and standing back and saying, "Yeah, it's kinda
creepy and immature, but WTF can I do about it?" encourages and
allows such activities.

> > It is tasteless. And guiding new authors or younger (or perhaps immature)
> > authors into the areas of tastefulness is something that communities
> > *do*. It's just not enough to stand back and say, "Hey, the Internet
> > is the Wild West right now, and someday they'll be told what's Right
> > and what's Wrong." I'd rather not wait for a Cease and Desist order. <G>
>
> Agreed. I don't really want to see actorfic all over this group either. But
> I don't think we can ridicule anyone for writing about real people as long

As I posted on a followup to Taylor, I wasn't ridiculing her. I could
see
how it would be taken that way, and for that I did apologize. And I am
not saying that we need to climb up onto a soapbox as a community and
"shun" those that do such things. It's more of a gentle, "Hey...we
understand the appeal, the attractivness of RL/actorfic, but that's
just not what we want to see here." Guidance, not condemnation.

> as it's done with harmless intent. I just read an entire novel based around
> Fidel Castro ("Castro's Curveball") and NONE of it was true, but it was
> still a good novel. I wouldn't tell the man who wrote it to stop writing
> about real people, would you? Where do we draw the line? Is it only
> distasteful if there's sex? Or is it ok to write vividly about Cuban
> dictators, but not actors? I just don't see the distinction.

The question "where do you draw the line" is *exactly* what I wanted
this
thread to be about. As a community, it's OK for us to say, "Ok, it's a
sticky wicket, but...>>there<< is the line. If someone crosses it,
that's
Not Ok." And folks, we don't actually need a decision (as if anyone
could make one that was binding to the group anyway,) but the discussion
ITSELF provides the guidance. The people expressing their opinions and
reasoning and citing examples and so forth -- that's what helps.

Dawson

Dawson Rambo

unread,
Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to

Kipler wrote:
>
> I'm amazed and amused that I missed this whole thread. Jess bravely confesses:
>

> << I used to write fic about Duran Duran.>>
>

> And she grew out of it without becoming a psychotic celebrity stalker. <g>
>
> One thing that constantly amazes me on this newsgroup is the utter earnestness
> with which adults address the peculiarities of childhood. Bill Cosby used to
> do a good bit about how kids were, when judged by adult standards, insane.
> Luckily for kids, we *don't* judge their actions by adult standards. We take
> them where they are, and we try to guide them as they move forward.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Couldn't have said it better myself.

>
> You can't take a teenage brain and give it adult literary sensibilities merely
> by saying, "X is good and Y is bad." The reason Jess wouldn't do Duran Duran

That's *exactly* what you do when you guide someone forward, but with
something more. "X is good and Y is bad, and this is WHY Y is bad:"

> We got to be silly, enthusiastic, and infatuated when we were kids. Expecting
> the kids who come after us to be smarter, more mature, and more discerning than
> we were is unrealistic.

Absolutely right. But, once again, the process of guiding them into
adulthood
contains "That action, while being fun and feeing your infatuation is
wholly
inappropriate."

Daws

Dawson Rambo

unread,
Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to

Deirdre wrote:


>
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, /\amanda/\ wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Deirdre wrote:
> >
> > > *scratch*
> > >
> > > You were referring to this?
> > >
> > > Dawson wrote:

> > > <<So, while writing about a real person is not necessarily an
> > > immediate warning to lock the author up, if it came to the attention
> > > of the Person In Question (in this case, DD,) and he were to read
> > > about how Author "A" wrote a story where "DD" divorces "TL" and
> > > then marries "Character X", I'd say that he might be offended and
> > > a little ticked off and possibly a little wary. >>
> > >

> > <<choppity chop>>
> >
> > Actually, it was more of a combination of that that this:
> >
> > "Probably comes from the utter lack of restraint that your younger
> > authors (typically) show. Like that God-awful actorfic about a
> > month ago that allowed me to once again step in it. Kids just don't
> > consider the ramifications of things like that."
>

> Ahhh ... to me those both sound to be about _Homewrecker_, the
> posting/discussion of which occurred maybe a week or two before you
> were asking questions about actorfic.

Just to set the record straight, I *was* talking about _Homewrecker_.
I'm not sure where Amanda got the idea that I was talking about her
or her creative efforts.

> It embodies some of what I don't like about actorfic (TL is a bitch,
> DD should break up with her and marry GA; Piper is actually DD's
> daughter, etc).

Oh, GOD...<shudder>

D

Dawson Rambo

unread,
Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to
> Just out of curiosity.
>
> DOES ANYONE ON THIS NEWSGROUP GET ALONG??????
>
> MY GOD IT'S NOTHING BUT A CONSTANT FLAME WAR!

Actually, this isn't a flame war. It is a discussion about
writing XF fanfic stories, and the various opinions and
positions of the newsgroup pariticipants on a given issue,
and as such is wholly on-topic and within the ng charter.

Believe me. I've been in flamewars here and on other ngs.

This isn't even a weenie roast.

> ALL YOU PEOPLE EVER DO IS FIGHT!

Nah. We write, too. The signal-to-noise ratio on a.t.x.c is
actually much higher than most of the groups I've seen.

D

Dawson Rambo

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to
Hi, Taylor...

SilverXmoonlight wrote:
>
> Yeah, well I just wanted to thank you soooo much for replying to my original
> post! (sarcasm there people). I really used to enjoy this newsgroups because
> the people here were very encouraging to others writers.

We are *still* encouraging to other writers. We are *encouraging* you
to be creative about the characters the newsgroup is chartered for.

> In response to some things:
>
> <<Now, it has been pointed out to me that what I wrote could be
> considered putting the original poster (Taylor, uh..Mulder)
> down for:>>
>
> Um . . . yes . . .Taylor, MULDER! I know that I'm not the first person to have
> ever written that.

Just because other people have used characters surnames for their
"screen" names
doesn't make it right. No, you're not the first, and you certainly won't
be
the last.

But I'll tell you something: Credibility goes way, way down when you
identify
yourself in this way. If you want to be taken seriously, don't use a
screen name that identifies you as a "Mulder."

And before anyone else asks, "Dawson Rambo" is the name on my birth
certificate.

> <<1. Liking a specific boyband;>> Ok....let's see.....I'm a teenage girl with
> raging hormones and I get a little happy when I see 5 cute guys onstage
> singing all the stuff that I want to hear a guy singing to girls about. K?

That's fine. That's why they sell zillions of albums.

> <<2. Wanting to see the characters from a favorite TV show interact
> with her favorite boyband in a fic>> That certaintly makes sense doesn't

> it? Fanfiction is all about writing about the things that you love!

No, it's not. Fanfiction is not about writing about the things you
love.


> <<3. Being a teenybopper>> I won't even dignify that with a response.

Those are your own words, Taylor. You identified yourself as a
teenybopper.
I was merely using the phrase you used.

> <<4. Asking for someone to write RealPersonFic, which as we all know (repeat
> after me:) Is A Bad Thing.>> I don't believe that I ASKED someone to write
> this kind of story. If I did, I apologize. But c'mon guys, I sure as heck
> know that RealPersonFic has been written before.

Once again, just because it has occured in the past doesn't make it
appropriate. That is the entire point I've been trying to make. And
once again, I apologize if you feel attacked. That was not my intent.

My intent is to point out that writing or *encouraging* stories to
be written about RL/actors is inappropriate and disrepectful. Period.

> I really don't wanna be flamed for this so don't even think about it. I just
> get a little pissed when people squash others' ideas.
>
> Taylor MULDER

Being upset is understandable. But read what has been written while
trying
not to take it personally.

Dawson

Brandon Ray

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to

Dawson Rambo wrote:

>
> Sorry, with that I must disagree. Although I'd give DKS a "go" as our
> British cousins say, GA does little for me in that regard.

Aiieee! Not me! Think about what's happened to the men who've expressed an interest in
Scully. They're all either dead or in jail -- those that weren't mutants to begin
with. Besides, at this point in S7, Mulder'd probably just shoot me. ;)

bugs

unread,
Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to
In article <38FDDDA8...@airmonitor.com>,

dra...@airmonitor.com wrote:
>
>
> Tinka wrote:
> >
> > Dawson Rambo wrote:
> >
> > > How many actorfic authors, do you think, would write about DD
> > > if he were a lit professor at Yale and not an actor?
> >
> > *raises hand reluctantly*.. uhmmm.. I'm not a an actorfic-writer ..
but a lit
> > professor at Yale sounds extremely yummy to my English majoring ears
.. I could be
>
> And what do you think would happen, say, if DD was not an actor but a
> lit
> professor at Yale, and someone sat down and wrote a fic about him that
> was disrespectful in any/all the ways detailed downthread from this
> post,
> and your Evil College Roomate(tm) found it in your notebook, Xeroxed
it
> and spread it all over campus?

Actually, a little side note in an article in the SF Chronicle a couple
of weeks ago caught my eye. Professors at a local community college were
sueing to have an on-line evaluation site taken down for libel but
mostly because it was causing class enrollment to go down. The note that
caught my eye? 'Students also post sexually explicit stories involving
the professors.'

I was, like, oh, my, gawd! Proffic Smut! EEEEKKKK! So, Tinka, look
around your uni. Maybe there's a venue for your work.

-- bugs

http://urw.simplenet.com/bugs


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

pam

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to
Tom Mabe wrote:
> patness wrote

> > (Sarcasm on) Oh, thanks. (Sarcasm off) You've ruined
> > what many of us didn't want to know until actually
> > watching the Celebrity Millionaire show.
>
> Well I certainly could have told you how much they won,
> but I didn't. And since everyone who was invited on the
> show got to go on, I don't think I spoiled anything.

Oh noooooo. Of course not. After all, you *only*
revealed how DD did.

Ie., THE ONLY RESULT I CARE ABOUT.

> Next time I'll include "spoilers" for Millionnaire (sarcasm on).

Please do.

For the past week & a half, I've been scrupulously averting
my eyes from every single WWTBAM post in AFDD & ATXF in order
to avoid accidentally reading any spoilers about how DD did.

And everyone else who *has* posted about the game's results
has been extremely thoughtful and considerate about putting
spoiler warnings in their subject lines, so that those of us
who wanted to remain Spoiler Virgins for WWTBAM just as we
do for upcoming episodes of XF could be forewarned and give
those posts a wide berth.

Thanks to you, all that effort on my part *and* on the part
of all the people who *were* thoughtful enough to include
spoiler warnings has been ruined.

/sarcasm on/ Congratulations. /sarcasm off/

Dawson Rambo

unread,
Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to

Brandon Ray wrote:


>
> Dawson Rambo wrote:
>
> >
> > Sorry, with that I must disagree. Although I'd give DKS a "go" as our
> > British cousins say, GA does little for me in that regard.
>

> Aiieee! Not me! Think about what's happened to the men who've expressed an interest in
> Scully. They're all either dead or in jail -- those that weren't mutants to begin
> with. Besides, at this point in S7, Mulder'd probably just shoot me. ;)

This is *very* true, and I should add a codicil. DKS up until about
"Small Potatoes."

But I'm a big, burly dude, so I think I could handle FM.

;)

D

Dawson Rambo

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to

Outlandish Salmonid Fish wrote:
>
> >
> >"...wanna be your everything..."
> >
> >*bam!*
> >
> >*ow*
> >
> >*thud*.
> >
> >THE END.
>
> Heh... this should be posted, definitely a classic.

If you *replied* to it, it was *posted*. <kidding>

Daws

/\amanda/\

unread,
Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to
<<choppity chop>>

> Just to set the record straight, I *was* talking about _Homewrecker_.
> I'm not sure where Amanda got the idea that I was talking about her
> or her creative efforts.
>

Cos about a month ago, I posted requesting some feedback on the idea of
actorfic. I had never even heard of Homewrecker until last night. A
misunderstanding. *bowing out and off the soapbox*

Anyone know where I can find this story, though? My curiosity has been
piqued.

Nicola Simpson

unread,
Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to
On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, pam wrote:

> Thanks to you, all that effort on my part *and* on the part
> of all the people who *were* thoughtful enough to include
> spoiler warnings has been ruined.
> /sarcasm on/ Congratulations. /sarcasm off/

Pam, I'm not sure exactly why you're getting your knickers in a twist
about this. Do you also avoid Entertainment Tonight, Access Hollywood,
and the local news? Because those places are where I've heard the most
about the results of Celebrity WWTBAM lately (with regards to the latter,
it must have been a *very* slow news day).

As Jess said, she didn't give any details about DD's turn under those
ridiculous spinning spotlights, only that he did well. Did anyone here
expect him to crash and burn? Is that what's been spoiled for you?

Pam, you've been in this community long enough to know that information
often has a way of getting to people despite rabid attention to spoilers,
from either the poster's or the reader's perspective. If you're that
desperately afraid of hearing something, then stay off the boards until
after the show has aired, or only read posts that are pretty much
guaranteed not to be about WWTBAM, such as new stories.

I think your response to Jess was overly harsh, and needlessly caustic.

Nic Simpson
(donning flameproof undies)


Dawson Rambo

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Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to

Deirdre wrote:


>
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Dawson Rambo wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Brandon Ray wrote:
> > >
> > > Dawson Rambo wrote:
> > >
> > > >

> > > > Sorry, with that I must disagree. Although I'd give DKS a "go" as our
> > > > British cousins say, GA does little for me in that regard.
> > >

> > > Aiieee! Not me! Think about what's happened to the men who've expressed an interest in
> > > Scully. They're all either dead or in jail -- those that weren't mutants to begin
> > > with. Besides, at this point in S7, Mulder'd probably just shoot me. ;)
> >
> > This is *very* true, and I should add a codicil. DKS up until about
> > "Small Potatoes."
>

> See, even as a female, I can say that DKS is pretty hot. ;)
>
> But GA isn't. She's pretty strange - almost abrasive.

*nod nod*

> The hotness factor of DKS comes from the character as written,
> especially in the early seasons. She's intelligent, somewhat
> sarcastic at times, not willing to put up with shit, as well as being
> rather beautiful.

And, as has been said $BIGNUM times, "Smart is so very sexy."

> GA's got the beauty (you know, since it's hers ;) but her personality,
> as revealed through inteviews, public appearences, etc is rather
> off-putting (of course, that may be an attention-seeking public image
> she's created, so there's no way to be certain.)

*nod nod* But I always come back to this: If her "offline" persona
is so...abrasive, that means she's one *hell* of an actress.

> And despite liking All Things, that was the one thing that bothered
> me. Although it was supposed to be DKS, there were several scenes
> where I felt I was watching GA as GA. The acting failed there for me.

*nod nod*

Dawson E. Rambo
Network Administrator
Air Monitor Corporation
dra...@airmonitor.com
--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Tinka

unread,
Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to
bugs wrote:

> Dawson wrote:
> > And what do you think would happen, say, if DD was not an actor but a
> > lit
> > professor at Yale, and someone sat down and wrote a fic about him that
> > was disrespectful in any/all the ways detailed downthread from this
> > post,
> > and your Evil College Roomate(tm) found it in your notebook, Xeroxed
> it
> > and spread it all over campus?
>
> Actually, a little side note in an article in the SF Chronicle a couple
> of weeks ago caught my eye. Professors at a local community college were
> sueing to have an on-line evaluation site taken down for libel but
> mostly because it was causing class enrollment to go down. The note that
> caught my eye? 'Students also post sexually explicit stories involving
> the professors.'
>
> I was, like, oh, my, gawd! Proffic Smut! EEEEKKKK! So, Tinka, look
> around your uni. Maybe there's a venue for your work.

Now, as I started out by saying - and as I've stated explicitly before in
similiar threads - I don't write nor read actorfic. In my reply I was merely
begging (shamelessly) for a **Fox
Mulder**-turned-professor-and-wearing-tweed-jackets-(and-perhaps-also-smoking-a-pipe?)-fic.
As for the real life prof-fics ... I am sitting here screaming with laughter
.. it is funny.. in a very sad, unfunny way.

Finally, I seem to recall a fic that dealt explicitly with Mulder finding a
Smut Archive dedicated to himself.. and writing an angry email to the
archivist.. that was funny too.. but this time in a genuine funny way. Am I
making sense? Sheese, probably not...

Kipler

unread,
Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to
<< But, once again, the process of guiding them into
adulthood contains "That action, while being fun and feeing your infatuation is
wholly inappropriate." >>

I guess I'm wondering what action you're referring to. Fandom in general?
Fanfic? In my mind, teen infatuation isn't something kids need to be "guided
out of." It's something that should make us smile and wink and nod our heads
with happy remembrances.

I don't see much difference between the way my friends and I spoke about Paul
Michael Glaser ("Oh! Wouldnt it be neat if hecame to the spring dance and
DANCED WITH US!?") and what girls are saying in fanfic about the boy bands of
today. It's all the same thing - teenage fantasy stories being played out to a
receptive audience. That's no more inappropriate, harmful or damaging to kids
than it was in my day (the 70's) or the days when Frank Sinatra was a teen
idol.

--Kipler

Tom Mabe

unread,
Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00