I have a question
SamPiper
picking on someone (which Im not, this is just a random thought)
Why write a drastic AU fic?
Im not talking about something that runs with the show and then jogs left at
some point in the (insert your season choice here) and goes from there. I can
understand those ... hell Im doing it.
I dont understand the drastic AU fic that has little to nothing to do with the
show. Like a period fic (I read the begining of a really cool one a while ago,
never finished it and now I cant remember what it was ... so it's not like I
think it is a bad thing) or a pre-xf fic.
If you have the skill to write a story like that (and some I've read are quite
good) why feel the need to "ride the coattails", so to speak, of the XF world?
Is there no forum to post a story with completely original characters (which is
what I find most drastic AU fic to be -- they only share names with XF
characters)?
... .- --
campylobacter
> Why write a drastic AU fic?
Built-in audience.
> I dont understand the drastic AU fic that has little to nothing to do
> with the show. Like a period fic [...] or a pre-xf fic.
Not all pre-XF fics are drastic; writing about Mulder solving the Monty
Props case is based on canon. So is fic about Reyes investigating the
disappearance of Doggett's son Luke.
> If you have the skill to write a story like that (and some I've read
> are quite good) why feel the need to "ride the coattails", so to speak,
> of the XF world?
It's not so much depending on the XF world as it is the XF community;
there's the instant gratification of feedback from an audience that will
respond to stories where the proper names are familiar, if not the
characterization.
> Is there no forum to post a story with completely original characters
> (which is what I find most drastic AU fic to be -- they only share
> names with XF characters)?
I'm sure there is, but authors probably outnumber the readers in that
case, if ya know what I'm sayin'.
- campy
"Sure, 90% of science fiction is crud. That's because 90% of everything
is crud." -- Theodore Sturgeon
SamPiper
>Not all pre-XF fics are drastic; writing about Mulder solving the Monty
>Props case is based on canon. So is fic about Reyes investigating the
>disappearance of Doggett's son Luke.
Point taken. I was thinking more of the number of fics I seen with the leads
meeting in college or HS or something like that where they never even join the
FBI and the couple of period fics set with the characters in the middle ages or
WWI etc.
>It's not so much depending on the XF world as it is the XF community;
>there's the instant gratification of feedback from an audience that will
>respond to stories where the proper names are familiar, if not the
>characterization.
Okay. I can understand that. My next question would be: If a post came
through from someone in the "community" that they had a story that didnt take
place in the XF universe, would you still be inclinded to read it?
I know there are number of authors who's work I have really come to enjoy/look
forward to when they post *glares at Lil_Gusty and Pru* because they have
proven, at least to my standards, they can tell a good story and I make it a
point to read anything they send through.
At this point, I wouldnt hesitate to read something that was non-XF based if it
came from certain people.
>I'm sure there is, but authors probably outnumber the readers in that
>case, if ya know what I'm sayin'.
*nod* yeah.
... .- --
campylobacter
> I was thinking more of the number of fics I seen with the leads
> meeting in college or HS or something like that where they never even join the
> FBI and the couple of period fics set with the characters in the middle ages or
> WWI etc.
Oh, ick! Mary-- er, ScullySue type stories, no doubt.
> If a post came
> through from someone in the "community" that they had a story that didnt take
> place in the XF universe, would you still be inclinded to read it?
I would, because it would allow me to see how well the author can develop
original characters without the MarySue stigma.
> I know there are number of authors who's work I have really come to enjoy/look
> forward to when they post *glares at Lil_Gusty and Pru* because they have
> proven, at least to my standards, they can tell a good story and I make it a
> point to read anything they send through.
Even if they were to write about Mulder & Scully in the Middle Ages? ;)
> At this point, I wouldnt hesitate to read something that was non-XF based if it
> came from certain people.
Either you're experiencing XF burn-out, or you need to read those books
you've always meant to read but haven't:
http://www.collegeboard.com/plan_ning/themost/booklist.html
- campy, reading DIANETICS (not!)
"And his first forays into detective fiction proved so inept,
they were mistaken for brilliant parodies."
- Jose Chung's Doomsday Defense
SamPiper
>Oh, ick! Mary-- er, ScullySue type stories, no doubt.
*chuckle* I've never really gotten far enough to find out. I see "Scully
giggled and called to Fox again" and I cant hit the close/delete key fast
enough. The sad thing is they are probably pretty good but I never liked high
school to begin with and have no interest in reading how others viewed
adolescents (which is probably why I never fell into the
90210/Buffy/Smallville/Dawson's Creek trap).
As to period pieces, I've read a couple that were so good, having the
characters using the same name was distracting and took away from the story.
>Even if they were to write about Mulder & Scully in the Middle Ages? ;)
Probably (still trying to remember the name of the period fic with Mulder
playing baseball for the Yankees and winding up in a hospital where Scully is a
nurse or something ... I've got the damn thing bookmarked but that doesnt mean
much ... I've got 4 folders of XF related bookmarks)
>Either you're experiencing XF burn-out, or you need to read those books
>you've always meant to read but haven't:
Im still smarting over a bad experience with Nathanel Hawthorne, and that was
15 years ago.
I just finished the Hillenbrand "Seabiscuit" book (yeah, I know ... I was busy)
Now Im in the mood for some good old fashioned SciFi "Lets go into space and
blow some shit up" so Im rereading Killer Station. How can you not love a
legless Navajo astronaught trying to blow up a space station?
After that, hopefully I will have finished unpacking the library at least. Im
not happy when I cant find my Poe.
... .- --
SamPiper
>http://www.collegeboard.com/plan_ning/themost/booklist.html
Well that was no help ;-)
Except for the poetry and the autobiographies/historical text sections (which I
tend not to read anyway) I've read just about everything on the long list and
read everything on the short list (voluntarily) before I graduated 10th grade.
Damnit ... I hate being reminded of my bookish nerd tendencies.
This explains why I use a term like "Knacker's yard" on a california racetrack
and get people looking at me funny.
... .- --
darle...@comcast.net
"SamPiper" <samp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030622041814...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> Probably (still trying to remember the name of the period fic with Mulder
> playing baseball for the Yankees and winding up in a hospital where Scully
is a
> nurse or something ... I've got the damn thing bookmarked but that doesnt
mean
> much ... I've got 4 folders of XF related bookmarks)
Moment in The Sun by Prufrock.
Valoise Armstrong
Bruce Sterling's slipstream fiction list. This is stuff that he categorizes
as more speculative than the typical mainstream fiction, but not mired in
the same-old, same-old that seems to dominate science fiction these days.
My son emailed this to me when I was lamenting the trickling stream of cyber
punk these days.
http://gopher.well.sf.ca.us:70/0/Publications/authors/Sterling/Catscan_Stuff
/catscan_five.txt
Sterling admits that these aren't all necessarily great writing, but they
are "little tokens of possibility," whatever that means.
Valoise
SamPiper
>Moment in The Sun by Prufrock.
*hangs head in shame*
Thanks
The really stupid thing is that I clicked my Pru link right after I wrote that
and STILL couldnt remember the name.
Of course, I got caught up in reading one of her older fics so I still wouldnt
have read it last night.
... .- --
SamPiper
>http://gopher.well.sf.ca.us:70/0/Publications/authors/Sterling/Catscan_Stuff
>/catscan_five.txt
Thanks
I'll check that out.
... .- --
Dryad
> Either you're experiencing XF burn-out, or you need to read those books
> you've always meant to read but haven't:
> http://www.collegeboard.com/plan_ning/themost/booklist.html
Oh hey, cool, I've read almost 3/4ths of those.
Dryad
--
http://www.puritycontrol.co.uk - XF rec's at The Grove, updated 5/18/03
SamPiper
>> Either you're experiencing XF burn-out, or you need to read those books
>> you've always meant to read but haven't:
>> http://www.collegeboard.com/plan_ning/themost/booklist.html
>
>Oh hey, cool, I've read almost 3/4ths of those.
Gives you a heady feeling to know you are so well read doesnt it :-)
... .- --
Dryad
> Damnit ... I hate being reminded of my bookish nerd tendencies.
http://www.innergeek.com/geek.html
> This explains why I use a term like "Knacker's yard" on a california racetrack
> and get people looking at me funny.
Lol!
Dryad
It does LOL
Hee!
SamPiper
>> Damnit ... I hate being reminded of my bookish nerd tendencies.
>
>http://www.innergeek.com/geek.html
404 ... and I dont mean the fic
... .- --
Spooky2u2
God. It was fabulous. I really wasn't interested in an AU fic but a friend
reced it so I went ahead and read it and I'd say that even though it was AU, I
felt it had the essence of M&S so well ingrained that that's what I was
interested. Them as people not just them as they relate to the world of
conspiracy. Why do people write them? I'm sure built in audience and also
just wanting to explore M&S in a different setting because I think we all find
them fascinating as people not just FBI agents and would like to venture into
what they would be like in scenario B, C, or D. :)
SamPiper
>I know this isn't the original question but I just read Paracelsus and Oh.
>My. God. It was fabulous. I really wasn't interested in an AU fic but a
friend
>reced it so I went ahead and read it and I'd say that even though it was AU,
>I felt it had the essence of M&S so well ingrained that that's what I was
>interested. Them as people not just them as they relate to the world of
>conspiracy.
Ditto all of that (except the part about it being rec'd to me) on Moment In the
Sun. I finally sat down to start reading it yesterday afternoon ... it was 4am
before I finished it and didnt even realize it.
> Why do people write them? I'm sure built in audience and also
> just wanting to explore M&S in a different setting because I think we all
>find them fascinating as people not just FBI agents and would like to venture
into
>what they would be like in scenario B, C, or D. :)
All I can say is I wish I knew if Prufrock was a published writer since I would
love to see what she could do with an original character.
... .- --
campylobacter
> *chuckle* I've never really gotten far enough to find out. I see "Scully
> giggled and called to Fox again" and I cant hit the close/delete key fast
> enough. The sad thing is they are probably pretty good
"Probably pretty good"? You're being extremely generous. I'm willing
to bet that most of the characterizations are far off the mark.
> but I never liked high
> school to begin with and have no interest in reading how others viewed
> adolescents (which is probably why I never fell into the
> 90210/Buffy/Smallville/Dawson's Creek trap).
Such fanfic might not be adults writing about adolescents, but adolescents
writing about adolescents.
However, there are plenty of clues in canon about how some of the XF
characters were as children: Space, Little Green Men, One Breath, Piper
Maru, and Christmas Carol refer to Mulder's and Scully's childhoods.
Even the Gunmen have some backstory on their childhoods, if one refers to
Like Water for Octane and some of the other LGM episodes.
There's Musings of a Cigarette Smoking Man for CSM before the XF, and
various flashbacks I can think of for other characters but am too lazy
to type.
So in my opinion, there's no excuse for poor characterization if an
author chooses to write about XF characters before the XF. A little
research goes a long way.
> As to period pieces, I've read a couple that were so good, having the
> characters using the same name was distracting and took away from the story.
You mean that the storyline was good, but the use of the names Mulder
or Scully or Krycek or whoever were superfluous?
That's why I don't like the episode Triangle. ;)
It's quite strange to think of why someone would need to classify the story
as AU, when it's actually a story that has more similarity to Real
Person Fic. I hazard to guess that the writer is just coming up with a
screnplay and wants to cast GA or DD or MP as actors in the appropriate
roles, especially if they discard canonical XF characterization.
> Im still smarting over a bad experience with Nathanel Hawthorne, and that was
> 15 years ago.
Joseph Conrad's HEART OF DARKNESS makes me want to eat broken glass
instead of reading it.
> I just finished the Hillenbrand "Seabiscuit" book (yeah, I know ...
> I was busy)
Eww, you read hardcover books by *living* authors? ;D
> Now Im in the mood for some good old fashioned SciFi "Lets go into space and
> blow some shit up" so Im rereading Killer Station. How can you not love a
> legless Navajo astronaught trying to blow up a space station?
Err, maybe if you're the space station?
> After that, hopefully I will have finished unpacking the library at least. Im
> not happy when I cant find my Poe.
Stuck him between Lovecraft and Shelley, didja?
- campy
campylobacter
> >http://www.collegeboard.com/plan_ning/themost/booklist.html
>
> Well that was no help ;-)
>
> Except for the poetry and the autobiographies/historical text sections (which I
> tend not to read anyway) I've read just about everything on the long list and
> read everything on the short list (voluntarily) before I graduated 10th grade.
>
> Damnit ... I hate being reminded of my bookish nerd tendencies.
Which is precisely why you should question how come BARTLEBY THE SCRIVENER
and THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS made that list. I won't even start ranting
about Proust. Or Mann, in translation.
> This explains why I use a term like "Knacker's yard" on a california racetrack
> and get people looking at me funny.
Californians look at you funny because it's Brit slang. Wouldn't
"abbatoir" sound more pseudo-intellectual?
- campy
SamPiper
>I'm willing to bet that most of the characterizations are far off the mark.
Yeah, but that isnt neccessarily a bad thing if all you are looking for is a
good story. I really liked the Trefoil series last year but I dont think there
is a one of us that believes those characters were anything like what we saw in
the show.
When I started reading fic, the first thing I did was start every story with a
caveat that I was NOT reading show material and that 99.9% of what I read most
likely would not resemble the show. I've been pleasantly surprised by the ones
that do stay in character as well as some very good stories that didnt.
>Such fanfic might not be adults writing about adolescents, but adolescents
>writing about adolescents.
I've often thought that but never wanted to mention it. I just make note of
the authors and put the mailing addy in the filter.
>There's Musings of a Cigarette Smoking Man for CSM before the XF
*growls* We dont discuss this ep near me. Fine enough ep and all but since it
was all nothing more than Frohike's theories, how do we really know that it is
canon and not conjecture? It never really was stated whether all those
flashbacks were Frohike telling a story or CSM remenicing.
Besides, Im still having a hard time reconciling the beginning of Apocrypha
with that first flashback in Musings with BM and CSM at Fort Bragg. Somehow,
that flashback just never felt right within canon.
>So in my opinion, there's no excuse for poor characterization if an
>author chooses to write about XF characters before the XF. A little
>research goes a long way.
*nod*
>You mean that the storyline was good, but the use of the names Mulder
>or Scully or Krycek or whoever were superfluous?
Occasionally. Distracting is probably the better term. I've been in the
middle of a few that were very good and been so involved with the story that
the erant "Mulder" or God forbid "Fox" would make me pause for a moment and
remind myself that it was supposed to be an XF related fic. Then there are
others (like Moment in the Sun) where it didnt bother me at all because they
still managed to stay true to character even though they werent really IN
character.
That didnt make any sense did it.
>That's why I don't like the episode Triangle. ;)
Ah but that was different, that was Mulder's Id, Ego and Superego getting their
ya ya's out.
>Joseph Conrad's HEART OF DARKNESS makes me want to eat broken glass
>instead of reading it.
It took me two years to read Scarlet Letter. It was so incredibly boring,
condesending and sexist that it was painful. That and I dont take kindly to
all that "thou, thee, thy" stuff. At least not from a windbag that takes 3
pages to tell me about a house. I never The Hobbit for some of the same
reasons. There is painting the picture and then there is using 20 gallons of
paint to cover a scratch on the mailbox.
>> I just finished the Hillenbrand "Seabiscuit" book (yeah, I know ...
>> I was busy)
>
>Eww, you read hardcover books by *living* authors? ;D
Often ... but then I hear she is ill so she doesnt count. And Dick Francis is
getting old. :-)
>Stuck him between Lovecraft and Shelley, didja?
Actually ... no. Somehow it wound up next to my Anais Nin.
The crossover possiblities boggle the mind.
Sam <--- has a stuffed polar bear named Edgar Allen
SamPiper
>Californians look at you funny because it's Brit slang. Wouldn't
>"abbatoir" sound more pseudo-intellectual?
Probably but most of them already think I speak beyond my upbringing and feel
Im only trying to make myself look superior to them.
I had someone tell me a couple months ago that they knew what I said was an
insult because it came from me but they had to grab a dictionary and a
thesaurus to figure out why.
... .- --
campylobacter
> When I started reading fic, the first thing I did was start every story with a
> caveat that I was NOT reading show material and that 99.9% of what I read most
> likely would not resemble the show. I've been pleasantly surprised by the ones
> that do stay in character as well as some very good stories that didnt.
I guess that's the key to enjoying fanfic: low expectations!
> >There's Musings of a Cigarette Smoking Man for CSM before the XF
> *growls* We dont discuss this ep near me. Fine enough ep and all
..yet you're discussing it. Or does that mean you won't entertain anyone's
else's opinion on it? :D
> but since it
> was all nothing more than Frohike's theories, how do we really know that it is
> canon and not conjecture? It never really was stated whether all those
> flashbacks were Frohike telling a story or CSM remenicing.
I think there's a disconnect between the director's interpretation and
Vince's screenplay. The ep opens up on CSM's point of view as he
eavesdrops on Frohike's conversation through electronic surveillance.
Then there's a damned commercial break! What an idiotic place for a
commercial break! The segue is totally ruined!
Then the backstory begins.
Because the episode ends with CSM's POV, and Frohike's mention that the
events recounted were based on a magazine subscription, and that CSM is
known to submit articles to rather offbeat magazines (using goofy
pseudonyms), one can conclude that the truth is subjective, and Frohike's
account is just slightly far enough off the mark to have CSM spare his
life by not pulling the trigger -- but not far enough off the mark to
prevent CSM from taking aim.
The events of that ep are canonical enough that using them in a fic
wouldn't constitute poor characterization, or generate cries of being
"off-canon".
But then again, there's precious little CSM fic being written anymore,
so I can't get too emotional about it. And because Jose Chung's From
Outer Space and Bad Blood deal with subjectivity, Musings doesn't
bother me at all from a canon standpoint.
> Besides, Im still having a hard time reconciling the beginning of Apocrypha
> with that first flashback in Musings with BM and CSM at Fort Bragg. Somehow,
> that flashback just never felt right within canon.
Well, what are you waiting for? Write some fic about it!
> Occasionally. Distracting is probably the better term. I've been in the
> middle of a few that were very good and been so involved with the story that
> the erant "Mulder" or God forbid "Fox" would make me pause for a moment and
> remind myself that it was supposed to be an XF related fic. Then there are
> others (like Moment in the Sun) where it didnt bother me at all because they
> still managed to stay true to character even though they werent really IN
> character.
>
> That didnt make any sense did it.
LOL Yes, it did.
> >That's why I don't like the episode Triangle. ;)
> Ah but that was different, that was Mulder's Id, Ego and Superego getting their
> ya ya's out.
Yes, but without Krycek. That's what makes it so tragic. <insert slasher
snicker here> Man and Superman!
> It took me two years to read Scarlet Letter. It was so incredibly boring,
> condesending and sexist that it was painful. That and I dont take kindly to
> all that "thou, thee, thy" stuff. At least not from a windbag that takes 3
> pages to tell me about a house.
You're not from New England, I assume?
Echoing your sentiment, one of my prime objections to a lot of fanfic is
that some writers feel they have to provide an exegesis of a character's
interior world. Pages of introspection, angst, and character motivations
bore me to tears. After a while, I just don't give a damn about Mulder's
guilt or Scully's reasons to appear emotionally distant or Krycek's need
to rationalize being a bastard. There's character-driven stories, and
then there's paramasturbatory stories.
> I never The Hobbit for some of the same
> reasons. There is painting the picture and then there is using 20 gallons of
> paint to cover a scratch on the mailbox.
Tolkien was building a universe with a complex mythology, which requires
a certain amount of words. Tolkien fans feel he didn't paint enough of
Middle Earth. But if you're not into that whole trip, then it's not for
you.
I would warn you away from Robert Jordan, as well, and his Wheel of
Eternity (or whatever) series where he dedicates pages and pages to what
his characters have eaten for breakfast. He's at ten books and counting.
Yawn.
> > [Poe]
> Actually ... no. Somehow it wound up next to my Anais Nin.
>
> The crossover possiblities boggle the mind.
LOL! Anais Nin writes the incest scenes for "The Fall of the House of
Usher"! I love it!
- campy
campylobacter
> Probably but most of them already think I speak beyond my upbringing
> and feel Im only trying to make myself look superior to them.
How can they tell how you were brought up? How can anyone appear to
*exceed* one's intellectual development through speech? If you're
capable of articulating complex thought with a concise, varied
vocabulary, how could that contradict how intelligent you are?
Where are these people?
Lemme kick their asses.
> I had someone tell me a couple months ago that they knew what I said was an
> insult because it came from me but they had to grab a dictionary and a
> thesaurus to figure out why.
You need to hang out with people who aren't stupid -- unless, of course,
you ARE a maladjusted, arrogant, condescending ass with an inferiority
complex who needs to validate selfhood through brinkmanship.
But I prefer to appeal to the better angels of human nature, and believe
that you're an open-minded individual with a beautiful soul.
- campy
SamPiper
>I guess that's the key to enjoying fanfic: low expectations!
It's probably the key to enjoying anything.
>yet you're discussing it. Or does that mean you won't entertain anyone's
>else's opinion on it? :D
It just makes me flinch in scenes and Im not really sure why. And I'll
entertain anyone's opinion on anything ... I'm a hell of a lot more openminded
than some like to believe.
>Well, what are you waiting for? Write some fic about it!
Because I suck at this :-) and Im already in the middle of one that has been
contributing to the delinquency of my ulcer.
For over 2 years
and Im not even half done by the looks of it.
Maybe once I get my hands on 3rd and 4th season DVDs I'll dink around and see
what comes up.
>You're not from New England, I assume?
Native born Southern California girl bred from upstate Nu Yawk stock.
>Krycek's need to rationalize being a bastard.
You know what I want. A good old fashion "My name is Alexi Nikoli Krycek. I
am a Russian, a murder, a bastard and unapologetically fucking proud of it"
fic. Not some simpering, fawning over Scully (or Mulder) bullshit that delves
into why he is as he is because he was abused and unloved.
I want to love him because he is a dirty rotten lying ratbastard sonofabitch
and not ashamed to admit it. If Im going to be sympathetic to him, I want it
to be because he was checkmated by a better player.
I know WBD has his fans but more and more I'm beginning to wonder how nice it
would have been if they had killed CSM of in the 4th season there had been more
Krycek the Player, instead of him being this appendage to the consortium that
they never really could figure out what to do with.
... .- --
SamPiper
>If you're capable of articulating complex thought with a concise, varied
>vocabulary, how could that contradict how intelligent you are?
I think it is a varient on the "Im a fuck up and anyone that is better than me
is obviously a stuck up asshole who really needs to get over themselves" theme.
You know, the same thing that makes me look at my boss when he is ragging on me
and think "Yeah, keep going but at least when Im your age, I'll still have
hair."
>You need to hang out with people who aren't stupid
I tell myself that everytime I go to a show or open the mail from one of my
mailing lists.
>unless, of course, you ARE a maladjusted, arrogant, condescending
> ass with an inferiority complex who needs to validate selfhood through
> brinkmanship.
Well ... the arrogant, condescending part is correct :-) but you left out
selfish, self-centered, egotistically cold hearted vindictive manipulating
bitch that ... *cough* excuse me. I think I was channeling my ex boyfriend
for a moment.
But then, for the first 10 years of my life, I was thoroughly convinced that my
birthday was a national holiday and the whole world got to take a day off just
so they could stop and give thanks for my birth, so what do you expect?
>But I prefer to appeal to the better angels of human nature, and believe
>that you're an open-minded individual with a beautiful soul.
:-) Damn, you're cool.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to find my baseball bat. I have a bird trying
to make love to my window.
If I hit it, does it get scored as a fowl ball?
... .- --
campylobacter
> And I'll entertain anyone's opinion on anything ... I'm a hell of a lot
> more openminded than some like to believe.
Yeah, there's a tendency in cyberspace for people to forget that there's
a human being behind the text, and to realize we are more than what
words can convey.
> Because I suck at this :-) and Im already in the middle of one that
> has been contributing to the delinquency of my ulcer.
>
> For over 2 years
>
> and Im not even half done by the looks of it.
Don't force the Muse! Just consider it a story that needs to stew
a while before the proper inspiration hits.
> Maybe once I get my hands on 3rd and 4th season DVDs I'll dink around
> and see what comes up.
I wish I owned a DVD! I'm still in VHS hell. It sucks, because my
computer has a DVD drive.
> >You're not from New England, I assume?
> Native born Southern California girl bred from upstate Nu Yawk stock.
Hawthorne is a New England native son. I'd actually trade him out of
that list for any of Nabokov's novels.
> You know what I want. A good old fashion "My name is Alexi Nikoli Krycek. I
> am a Russian, a murder, a bastard and unapologetically fucking proud of it"
> fic. Not some simpering, fawning over Scully (or Mulder) bullshit that delves
> into why he is as he is because he was abused and unloved.
Damn straight! (Or gay.)
> I want to love him because he is a dirty rotten lying ratbastard sonofabitch
> and not ashamed to admit it. If Im going to be sympathetic to him, I want it
> to be because he was checkmated by a better player.
Boo yah! That's my beloved Ratboy.
> I know WBD has his fans but more and more I'm beginning to wonder how nice it
> would have been if they had killed CSM of in the 4th season there had been more
> Krycek the Player, instead of him being this appendage to the consortium that
> they never really could figure out what to do with.
Seeing Krycek play "chauffeur" was such an insult. CC could have played up
tha anti-hero angle and really given the mytharc some nice moments.
- campy
SamPiper
>Seeing Krycek play "chauffeur" was such an insult.
Wasnt it, though?
Im not sure if I was more disgusted with him being CSMs private lackey or the
rest of the consortium's muzzled bitch.
I had such hopes for a CSM/Krycek confrontation ala Cruise/Nicholson in A Few
Good Men.
The ultimate insult was him pushing CSM down the stairs, giving us the
impression that he was going to be THE player and then NOTHING for an entire
YEAR until he shows up to only to play chauffeur for M&S and then die.
and I missed the bird.
... .- --
campylobacter
> Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to find my baseball bat. I have a bird trying
> to make love to my window.
>
> If I hit it, does it get scored as a fowl ball?
Now you're channeling DimDuk.
> .... .- --
Is that Morse code for "ham"?
-.-. .- -- .--. -.--
SamPiper
>> Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to find my baseball bat. I have a bird
>>trying to make love to my window.
>> If I hit it, does it get scored as a fowl ball?
>
>Now you're channeling DimDuk.
I miss him so.
>> .... .- --
>
>Is that Morse code for "ham"?
It's supposed to be "sam". That must be the period I missed a few years ago.
Hey Camp, drop me a private if you could. I got something I want to ask you.
... .- --
pam
> campylobacter wrote:
> > Seeing Krycek play "chauffeur" was such an insult.
>
> Wasnt it, though?
>
> Im not sure if I was more disgusted with him being CSMs
> private lackey or the rest of the consortium's muzzled bitch.
>
> I had such hopes for a CSM/Krycek confrontation ala
> Cruise/Nicholson in A Few Good Men.
Have you guys seen Krycek's deleted scene from "Two Fathers",
complete with commentary about how TPTB regretted deleting it?
http://www.fredfarm.com/~deslea/ratcave/video/nickscene.zip
(thanks to Deslea for posting & GertieBeth for hosting!)
Livia Balaban
> Why write a drastic AU fic?
><snip>
> If you have the skill to write a story like that (and some I've read are quite
> good) why feel the need to "ride the coattails", so to speak, of the XF world?
AMEN, Sam. A-bloody-men.
Weird timing, that. I just had a bit of a rantlet myself on this very
topic over in another forum last week.
I don't understand the use of the term "AU" when the story itself
doesn't appear to have anything to do with X-Files characters. Take
them out of the office and into a futuristic space station? Okay, I
guess, as long as they're still the characters.
But when you create characters that look like David Duchovny or Nic
Lea and give them some variation on their characters' names and place
them in ancient Hubricia, Land of Unreasonable Pride, and make one a
noble hazel-eyed lord and another the lithe, raven-haired,
emerald-eyed slave, and they lovelovelove each other...this is X-Files
AU fanfiction?
::blink blink::
There has to be a point where FANfic authors recognize they're not
writing fanfic anymore. I think if you're using Nic Lea's saxay as
Krycek but not using a reasonable characterization from the
series...that's not fanfic anymore. I've decided to call it BODYFIC.
BODYFIC:
Employing for a story the physical attributes of an actor and the name
of the character s/he plays, but no other canonical elements of said
character or the series from which s/he is derived.
I'm not saying this genre is entirely without merit -- but I am saying
I don't think it's X-Files fanfiction anymore. It's closer to
actorfic in that case. But I think I'll not comment on actorfic here.
[/canofworms]
My poor-economy-addled $0.02,
- Livia
campylobacter
> Have you guys seen Krycek's deleted scene from "Two Fathers",
> complete with commentary about how TPTB regretted deleting it?
> http://www.fredfarm.com/~deslea/ratcave/video/nickscene.zip
>
> (thanks to Deslea for posting & GertieBeth for hosting!)
O. M. G. Awesome. Incredible. Must rewatch ten times. Thank you pam!
The slash possibilities...
Bur seriously, why couldn't scenes like that one have been included
in THE SERIES FINALE, instead of the lame ass rehash Mytharc 101
clipshow we were force-fed?
- camps, trying not to pull my CC voodoo doll out of retirement
Dryad
> I would warn you away from Robert Jordan, as well, and his Wheel of
> Eternity (or whatever) series where he dedicates pages and pages to what
> his characters have eaten for breakfast. He's at ten books and counting.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Dryad, who gave up reading somewhere around book 5. Or was it book 6?
Maybe it was book 7, wherein Rand bores everyone to tears
Dryad
> All I can say is I wish I knew if Prufrock was a published writer since I would
> love to see what she could do with an original character.
Dryad
SamPiper
>> I would warn you away from Robert Jordan, as well, and his Wheel of
>> Eternity (or whatever) series where he dedicates pages and pages to what
>> his characters have eaten for breakfast. He's at ten books and counting.
>
>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
>
>Dryad, who gave up reading somewhere around book 5. Or was it book 6?
> Maybe it was book 7, wherein Rand bores everyone to tears
*snicker*
After falling 5(?) books behind -- because I hate being sheep -- I was just
starting to consider reading the Harry Potter books. Then someone told me one
of them was longer than War and Peace.
I'd rather read War and Peace.
If I can find it again.
Moving SUCKS!
... .- --
Dryad
> How can they tell how you were brought up? How can anyone appear to
> *exceed* one's intellectual development through speech? If you're
Ha. Try being mixed race but growing up in a white town, then being
thrown into the deep end of black culture. Whoo! Talk about
enlightenment - and not of the good kind, either.
> capable of articulating complex thought with a concise, varied
> vocabulary, how could that contradict how intelligent you are?
People judge people all the time on their language and accent,
regardless of how intelligent they might be. Sad, but true.
Personally speaking, I detest people who only know how to speak in
slang. I don't care if you speak in slang because of familiarity or
comfort, but you'd also better be able to use the variad vocab you
mention above.
In Scotland there are people known as Neds, who have a tendency to
wear shell-suits, cheap gold, are under 30 - often with a passle of
babies - and a tendency to speak very nasally. <g>
SamPiper wrote:
>>I had someone tell me a couple months ago that they knew what I said was an
>>insult because it came from me but they had to grab a dictionary and a
>>thesaurus to figure out why.
Lol!
Dryad, language snob
SamPiper
>People judge people all the time on their language and accent,
>regardless of how intelligent they might be.
Guilty as charged and Im sure it's something we have all fallen prey to once or
twice.
>Personally speaking, I detest people who only know how to speak in
>slang.
I wholeheartedly agree. The people that write/post in broken slang annoy me
the most. I lost my green lantern decoder ring years ago and I have no desire
to spend an hour trying to figure out what most of their crap means.
If you want to advertise the fact that you fell asleep in grade school be my
guest but dont expect me to take you serious if you cant communicate like a
normal functioning adult.
... .- --
Michael Preston
What about a strong regional accent?
I'm from southern US regional roots. I speak like I am. What's your
immediate reaction to that?
Dryad, being English, might want to modify that to rural Yorkshire, but Sam
might want to take it raw. I sound much like the roadcrew of "Deliverance".
Why should I hide my cultural roots in order to appease funny talking snobs,
especially since it costs them money and makes it for me?
I write fairly standard English, so it doesn't show here much, but spoken is
another story. My spoken is full of regionalisms, but not slang, although my
use of regionalisms and anachronisms often gets me accused of such. About
the third or fourth time I quote the OED, such criticisms generally abate.
Mike
"SamPiper" <samp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030624182449...@mb-m03.aol.com...
Spooky2u2
>All I can say is I wish I knew if Prufrock was a published writer since I
>would
>love to see what she could do with an original character.
>
A friend of mine says he/ she is a pro which doesn't surprise me. It certainly
explains why they don't have any desire for feedback and lord knows if I could
write like that, I wouldn't be doing it all for free ;)
I must admit, Paracelsus is the only Pru fic I've ever finished. The rest is
too dark for me, that I saw. Be I *loooove* Paracelsus. I truly do. Anyone
who hasn't read it, run and read it now! Read it now!
campylobacter
> What about a strong regional accent?
Dude, I totally dig 'em. They're music to my ears.
I tend to gauge people's intelligence by their vocabulary, clarity of
thought, and ability to reason. A lot of my college profs had
Southern accents, but their minds were sharp as razors, and you could
tell by their discourse.
> I'm from southern US regional roots. I speak like I am. What's your
> immediate reaction to that?
Makes me homesick.
> I sound much like the roadcrew of "Deliverance".
Dangnation, I miss north Georgia. I used to live in Duluth, but I grew
up in LA (Lower Alabama).
> Why should I hide my cultural roots in order to appease funny talking snobs,
> especially since it costs them money and makes it for me?
"Just you woit, 'Enry 'Iggins, just you woit!"
> I write fairly standard English, so it doesn't show here much, but spoken is
> another story. My spoken is full of regionalisms, but not slang, although my
> use of regionalisms and anachronisms often gets me accused of such. About
> the third or fourth time I quote the OED, such criticisms generally abate.
I had to train myself to stop using "sir" and "ma'am" when I moved to
SoCal, because people out here thought I was insulting their age or being
sexist or sarcastic or something. Conversely, I used to get a buttload
of shit if I didn't use those honorifics in the South.
Also, I move to officially include "ya'll" as a proper English contraction,
because there's no plural second person to differentiate from
singular second person. "What do ya'll think?" sounds more inclusive
than "What do you think?" when addressing a group.
Also, "ain't" is perfectly acceptable in speech, because the contraction
"am't" is just gay. "I'm rambling, am't I?" Sounds like crap, huh?
- camps, nonprescriptivist when it comes to linguistics
SamPiper
>What about a strong regional accent?
Completely different. At least in my mind but then that probably stems from my
own screwed up diction and vocabulary base. I was born and raised in Southern
California but my mother and stepdad are both upstate New York natives.
Add that to the fact that I am a natural born mimic when it comes to dialect
and inflection and my natural accent is almost unidentifiable at times. I've
had Louisiana clients call at work and swear I was a native coonass only to
turn around on the next call and when I get off have my boss swear I sound like
a girl he grew up with in the bronx
>I'm from southern US regional roots. I speak like I am. What's your
>immediate reaction to that?
No reaction.
I object to the over use of slang. Its a fine line between using phrases
native to your region and sounding like an uneducated 3rd grade dropout
gangbanger wannabe.
Most of us have had the same basic education when it comes to language. I just
want people that talk to me to use it.
Like I said, Im more offended by the people that cant write a coherent sentence
without resorting to bangerspeak and dropping letters than I am by how a person
actually speaks and that is just because if you are speaking, I dont have to
concentrate on deciphering what you are trying to tell me.
When I see a post like this:
"Jillans sucks da only good racers of there or dee and charles and maybe T if
yall soo good why dont yall come down to dave and busters and have a tournment
wit us o and we waz thinkin about takin triands up there aigain and puttin it
on the total earing borad 110,000,000 damn that good but i atleast will give
dee props juzz he probally the best of there and soo his charles dee u dont noe
me but u noe dave i just a 14 year old boy but it think i can take you
haaaaaaaa juzz if jillans would come down to dave and buster we will c who is
really beta got to go but props to Dee and charles peaze"
I tend to ignore them because it gives me too much of a headache to try and
figure out what this idiot is trying to say (Beyond Jillian's sucks which most
of us already knew -- dont ask)
If you write like that then you probably sound like that and I am too old and
cynical to want to deal with someone's peter pan complex.
>Why should I hide my cultural roots in order to appease funny talking snobs,
>especially since it costs them money and makes it for me?
You shouldnt and that was kind of what I meant when I said I get accused of
speaking beyond my upbringing. For some, it may be pretentious because they
are trying to make themselves sound more intelligent than they are. For
others, it really is their natural manner of expression but either way you get
slammed for it.
... .- --
SamPiper
>I must admit, Paracelsus is the only Pru fic I've ever finished. The rest is
>too dark for me, that I saw. Be I *loooove* Paracelsus. I truly do. Anyone
>who hasn't read it, run and read it now! Read it now!
I have to admit, I just started reading all of Pru's stuff recently (prior to
that, I was seeing the chapters of a WIP coming through and wanted to wait
until it was done first)
I'll go read Paracelsus if you go read Moment in the Sun.
And Cycles ... Cycles was cool.
... .- --
Lara Means
>Also, I move to officially include "ya'll" as a proper English contraction,
>because there's no plural second person to differentiate from
>singular second person. "What do ya'll think?" sounds more inclusive
>than "What do you think?" when addressing a group.
I agree (being a native Southerner myself) -- but it's spelled "y'all." A
contraction of "you" and "all."
Nitpicky!Lara
----------
Written by Lara Means - http://larameansxf.tripod.com
Lara's Favorites: recs - http://recsbylara.tripod.com
CharlieFic - http://www.geocities.com/charliefic
XFMU: seasons 8 & 9 - http://xfmufic.tripod.com
SamPiper
>I agree (being a native Southerner myself) -- but it's spelled "y'all." A
>contraction of "you" and "all."
And "all y'all" is its proper plural (but damned if I have been able to figure
out how many people you need to move from y'all to all y'all)
... .- --
campylobacter
> I agree (being a native Southerner myself) -- but it's spelled
> "y'all." A contraction of "you" and "all."
You're right. <insert Homer Simpson "d'oh!" here>
- camps
Violet
And can anyone explain to me the difference between "yonder", "over
yonder" and "back yonder"?
The Southern accent is charming, and the regionalisms are, too, except
(imho) when someone puts them in Mulder's mouth as if he actually
speaks this way. The particular regionalism that comes to my mind is
the use of the word "drug" as the past tense of the verb, "to drag".
While it may be accepted usage in parts of the country, I can't
picture Oxford-educated New Englander Mulder as using it, except in a
parody of someone else's speech pattern.
Dryad
> I must admit, Paracelsus is the only Pru fic I've ever finished. The rest is
> too dark for me, that I saw. Be I *loooove* Paracelsus. I truly do. Anyone
> who hasn't read it, run and read it now! Read it now!
Oh, you must, must, *MUST* read Hiraeth!!
Dryad, whose favorite Pru fic is actually Negative Utopia :p
Dryad
> I have to admit, I just started reading all of Pru's stuff recently (prior to
> that, I was seeing the chapters of a WIP coming through and wanted to wait
> until it was done first)
If I don't get into <insert religious- specific equivalent of
after-death paradise here> from holding off on reading not only Pru's
latest, but Wintersong's Alphas as well, I'll be forced to haunt
someone for the rest of my afterlife!
Dryad
Dryad
> I'm from southern US regional roots. I speak like I am. What's your
> immediate reaction to that?
Cool! :D See, accents don't bother me one whit. It's the non or bad
use of English that gets my goat. I have been known to throw fits
while watching talk shows, for example, when someone says 'supposuvly'
or 'went to my work'. It may be wrong and/or fashionable, but I still
hate it.
> Dryad, being English, might want to modify that to rural Yorkshire, but Sam
> might want to take it raw. I sound much like the roadcrew of "Deliverance".
Hey, I'm not English! Oddly enough, my favorite *English* accent is
actually...the Newcastle accent. ;D
> Why should I hide my cultural roots in order to appease funny talking snobs,
> especially since it costs them money and makes it for me?
I don't think you should, but then, that's not my issue. My problem
is when I can't understand what someone's talking about because their
use of slang is so heavy. Like spoken cell phone text. Or shud that
b txt?
> I write fairly standard English, so it doesn't show here much, but spoken is
> another story. My spoken is full of regionalisms, but not slang, although my
> use of regionalisms and anachronisms often gets me accused of such. About
> the third or fourth time I quote the OED, such criticisms generally abate.
Again, I don't have a problem with that. It's the slang that gets me.
Dryad, wondering if her Eng Lit roots are showing yet
Dryad
> I tend to gauge people's intelligence by their vocabulary, clarity of
> thought, and ability to reason. A lot of my college profs had
> Southern accents, but their minds were sharp as razors, and you could
> tell by their discourse.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, and failing miserably. Can I
blame that on lack of food last night?
> I had to train myself to stop using "sir" and "ma'am" when I moved to
I'm from New England and I don't know anyone my age who does not use
'sir' and 'ma'am'...is that not normal anymore?
> Also, "ain't" is perfectly acceptable in speech, because the contraction
> "am't" is just gay. "I'm rambling, am't I?" Sounds like crap, huh?
'am't'??
Dryad
Dryad
> I object to the over use of slang. Its a fine line between using phrases
> native to your region and sounding like an uneducated 3rd grade dropout
> gangbanger wannabe.
But yo hey, you is my homey. ;p
> When I see a post like this:
> "Jillans sucks da only good racers of there or dee and charles and maybe T if
> yall soo good why dont yall come down to dave and busters and have a tournment
Ye gods, my eyes! (and ears)
SamPiper
>While it may be accepted usage in parts of the country, I can't
>picture Oxford-educated New Englander Mulder as using it, except in a
>parody of someone else's speech pattern.
That is kind of jarring. There are times Im flying along on a fic and
something gets written that there is no WAY I would believe Mulder would say.
It's like hitting a brick wall at 90 mph.
... .- --
SamPiper
>> I had to train myself to stop using "sir" and "ma'am" when I moved to
>I'm from New England and I don't know anyone my age who does not use
>'sir' and 'ma'am'...is that not normal anymore?
And Im a southern California military brat (for several generations and all
branches)
Sir and Ma'am are honorifics but they are also more than that to me -- Sir more
than Ma'am since Ma'am in the military only came into use in the last 15-20
years when it became more politically correct to use. Prior to that it was
always "Sir" because you were addressing the rank and not the person. That was
part of the reason I liked ST: Voyaguer, at least they addressed Janeway
correctly. I digress.
It is very common for me to answer "Yes Sir" when someone is calling me. It's
just a conditioned response. If I am concentration on something and someone
calls me, I always answer "Yes, sir (or ma'am)".
I actually had a problem at my last job because I would continually use it in
phone conversations when I was acknowledging what someone was asking me and my
boss said it made me sound too formal.
Besides, I just think "Yes, sir" sounds better than "Yes". Just saying "yes"
as an acknowledgement sounds so abrupt -- like you had a complete thought but
stopped before you said it -- and I hate using "Yeah" (not that I dont, I just
try not to.)
Standing there nodding my head makes me feel like one of those bobblehead dogs
people put in their cars. Of course, all of that generally only applies when
Im working but I have been known to sir or ma'am my friends if they interrupt
my train of thought.
and now Im babbling.
... .- --
campylobacter
> That is kind of jarring. There are times Im flying along on a fic and
> something gets written that there is no WAY I would believe Mulder would say.
> It's like hitting a brick wall at 90 mph.
"Whilst" and "amongst" uttered by American characters always stops me
cold.
- camps
campylobacter
> > Also, "ain't" is perfectly acceptable in speech, because the
> > contraction "am't" is just gay. "I'm rambling, am't I?" Sounds
> > like crap, huh?
> 'am't'??
It makes more sense that "aren't I".
Are not I?
I are not?
Icky icky icky. And nobody to tell me it's subjuctive tense,
because I won't believe it.
- camps
SamPiper
>> "Whilst" and "amongst" uttered by American characters always stops me
>> cold.
>Hey, I use amongst in everyday life
"twas" and "to wit" for me. My friends think I'm nuts.
Camp, Dryad ... You've got post :-)
... .- --
campylobacter
> It's the non or bad
> use of English that gets my goat. I have been known to throw fits
> while watching talk shows, for example, when someone says 'supposuvly'
> or 'went to my work'. It may be wrong and/or fashionable, but I still
> hate it.
I have a big hate: Weasel Speak.
The phrases that make me want to smash my TV with a 2x4:
- value-added
- grow your business
- administrate
- any improperly-used word that conflates a vapid marketing job:
"After transitioning to globally leverage our value-added resources to
facilitate synergistic enterprise solutions, we project the end result
of high throughput."
Gee, that's "a better way to office". :-p
- camps, anti-corporate
SamPiper
>I have a big hate: Weasel Speak.
Damn ... and here I thought this was going to be Spenderfic.
... .- --
Dryad
>>From: Deirdre bon...@chaos.x-philes.com
>
>
>>>"Whilst" and "amongst" uttered by American characters always stops me
>>>cold.
>>
>>Hey, I use amongst in everyday life
>
>
> "twas" and "to wit" for me. My friends think I'm nuts.
Dryad, another user of 'amongst' as well as 'pray tell'
Mare
Does that mean that the e-mail I got at work from someone in North
Carolina, using the word "y'alls" (indicating my entire company, hence
should have been "all y'all") was wrong?
Damn, just when I thought I had the singular/plural thing about
"y'all" figured out <g>
Mare, wondering how many Southerners would actually use "y'all" or a
variation of it in a business e-mail
campylobacter
> Does that mean that the e-mail I got at work from someone in North
> Carolina, using the word "y'alls" (indicating my entire company, hence
> should have been "all y'all") was wrong?
"Y'alls" should've been "y'all's" -- second person plural possessive, such as
"Y'all's network has been down fer prit near three hours."
In speech, it's often common to hear /yallses/ for second person plural
possessive, but that creates some confusion if you try to break it down
into a noun that's possessive AND plural AND collective.
For example, "the peoples of North America" illustrates a plural collective
noun for "the ethnic groups of North America", and the possessive form would be
illustrated as "various peoples' rights to cultural identity".
Therefore, "Y'alls's networks are dang well FUBARed" would refer to several
"you alls", or multiple groups of individuals. (Because "y'all" is only
one syllable, an "s" follows the possessive apostrophe: "y'alls's".)
> Damn, just when I thought I had the singular/plural thing about
> "y'all" figured out <g>
This would've made a great Louis Grizzard column. :(
> Mare, wondering how many Southerners would actually use "y'all" or a
> variation of it in a business e-mail
Apparently, at least one.
- camps
Leslie
>Carolina, using the word "y'alls" (indicating my entire company, hence
>should have been "all y'all") was wrong?
Really, it should have been "Your-all's"--at least, that's how I would say it
here in Tennessee.
All y'all is addressed to a group of three or more individuals, IME. Y'all is
used when talking to an individual only when he or she is a representative of a
group (like a company or a family) as in, "Where are y'all going on vacation
this summer?" or "Do y'all have any shrimp for sale today?"
>
>Damn, just when I thought I had the singular/plural thing about
>"y'all" figured out <g>
>
>Mare, wondering how many Southerners would actually use "y'all" or a
>variation of it in a business e-mail
Not in business e-mail, but in a face-to-face business transaction, yes.
Leslie
Spooky2u2
>that, I was seeing the chapters of a WIP coming through and wanted to wait
>until it was done first)
>
>I'll go read Paracelsus if you go read Moment in the Sun.
>
>And Cycles ... Cycles was cool.
>
>
I started Moment in the Sun and just haven't been in the mood to finish it. I
have to be up for a long fic ::hangs head in shame::
Spooky2u2
>
::makes mental note with big check by it::: ;)