New Fanfic or Not: How abusive were Mulder's parents?
ckelll
him and somewhat helpless.
His father is distant, until Anasazi.
Neither of them was able to support him when Sam was abducted.
When he's on the phone with them and calls them Mom or Dad, they have to
ask if it's him.
They named him Fox.
But was he actually beaten or molested?
Terisa
You don't have to be beaten or molested to be abused. Emotional abuse and
neglect is just as damaging as the other two forms of abuse and more often
than not harder to detect. I don't doubt for a second that Mulder was
abused in some form as a child, most likely emotional abuse since there's no
evidence that he's physically violent in relationships and that usually
happens with children who are abused that way. Though, that's not to say
that there wasn't some physical abuse. Nor is there any real evidence of
sexual abuse. However, he does have some traits one finds in children who
are emotionally abused. He has low self esteem, and he has a guilt system
that allows him to accept the blame for things that are not his fault. And
I seriously doubt either parent gave much thought to his welfare and well
being after Samanatha was taken, so it's a good bet his was neglected.
Bug ya later,
Terisa
"Whatever tape you found in that VCR, it isn't mine." -Fox Mulder
Come and visit my webpage, if you dare:
http://home.earthlink.net/~terisafwm/
GeoRed
>From what I've seen of the show, Mulder's mother is really useless to
>him and somewhat helpless.
>His father is distant, until Anasazi.
>Neither of them was able to support him when Sam was abducted.
>When he's on the phone with them and calls them Mom or Dad, they have to
>ask if it's him.
>They named him Fox.
>But was he actually beaten or molested?
>
>
Who knows? It is hard to say. But, based on Colony and Anasazi alone, I think
it is safe to say that there was a degree of emotional abuse involved. The
way Dad treats Mulder and the way Mulder reacts in his apartment in Colony/End
Game is,IMO rather indicative of an abusive relationship. But I don't think we
have enough evidence to call it canon. I do think you are right about Mrs.
Mulder being worthless. Anyway, canon or no, the writers who make that
assumption in their fic are on the right track, IMO.
Heidi
::::::::with head in hands, rocking slowly::::::::::
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter."
<Mulder: He's not just lean.......he's cuisine.>
Nonie Rider
were abusive.
We know only that his father finds it difficult to open up around Mulder, and that
his mother wasn't able to protect one of the kids from being "abducted." (CF the
exchange where Mulder demands that his mother answer whether his father asked her
to choose which child to lose. She says something like "I couldn't choose. So he
did, and I've hated him ever since.")
So most fanfic assumes she wasn't abusive herself, but wouldn't have been strong
enough to stand up to Bill Mulder if he WAS abusive.
Myself, I'd never wondered about it until I started reading fanfic, but then it
made immediate sense. The evidence isn't in his on-screen interactions with his
parents; it's in his interactions with the whole world.
Mulder is a conflicted, tormented man, low in self-esteem and prone to self-hatred.
He shows a desperate need to be loved, although more in the way of a child than of
a man. He's trying to make sense out of a disjoint, confusing world, and is easily
swayed by others who seem to share his view of things. He tends to be emotionally
drawn to people who will reject and hurt him (including Scully and Skinner, neither
of whom is exactly warm). And these are all classic symptoms of abuse.
Physical or sexual? Hell, who knows? If you assume he feels at least some
attraction to Krycek, whether emotional or physical, you could say that his
tendency to express it with his fists suggests learned behavior. But that's pretty
circular.
Some fanfic writers assume Mulder's father began abusing him after Samantha's
disappearance, either as punishment for losing her, or from self-hatred for having
made the choice. However, the damage to his psyche might suggest that it started
earlier, while his sense of self was first developing.
So sure, we don't know whether he was abused, or if so, how, but there's reason to
wonder. Me, I like fanfic on all sides of the issue, as long as it makes sense out
of the family one way or the other.
--Nonie
Kipler
discussion comes up - because I think it's very easy for a good and
"functional" family to fall apart in the wake of a tragedy like Samantha's
abduction.
If anything, I'd say the parents were broken by grief, and that Mulder was hurt
because of that. But I think everyone in that situation deserves a measure of
sympathy.
--Kipler
Dana K. Scully
Are you a shrink?
Veronica
Kipler wrote in message <199808222249...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
Me too. I don't think that there was any real "abuse" More like after Sam's
abduction, What was a good loving family became cut off cold and isolated.
Which is why the divorce happened.
Now Mulder does have blame issues, but I don't see him as a low self esteem
kinda guy.
He courts the ladies, he gives wacky lectures, he spouts his off "to the
heavens and anyone that will listen that the fix is in...etc"
I do think he does have alot of intimacy issues, which is why trust is such
a big deal.
My .02
Veronica
Rhyme...@webtv.net
I agree with both sides of the argument, because although Bill is pretty
distant around Fox (yes, don't call him Fox, but for the sake of all the
Mulders we're discussing, I'll use it), you have to notice that Fox has
never really brought up any memories about how his father had treated
him as a *child*. We hear Fox talk about climbing trees, playing
baseball, etc, with Samantha, and it seems to me that his life was
pretty idyllic up until Sam disappeared.
Then we get a darker side of Bill Mulder, a man psychologically
tormented over his role in the abduction of his daughter. Whether or not
we will ever get the full story, I think Bill took out most of his rage
at being unable to prevent/have more of a say in Sam's abduction on Fox.
I don't think Fox was ever beaten per se, but I think the amount of
emotional abuse inflicted on him is evident in many scenes with his
parents.
As was already mentioned, you can see how Fox is around his father in
Colony/End Game where he has to tell his father that he lost Sam again.
Watch his eyes, and his body language. He seems uncomfortable around his
father, and dare I say, scared, as well. Fox has mentioned that he and
his father "don't talk" (Travelers) and that ep was set before the
X-Files.
So his relationship with Bill has probably been one of alot of hurt, and
alot of neglect from around the time Sam disappeared.
Teena is no better, as she seems cold and uncaring towards Fox. So why
won't she tell Fox what happened and what she can remember? Is she still
protecting her husband? No, she had said that she "hates him still" in
his grave, right? So why all the animosity towards Fox when all he wants
to find out is how his baby sister disappeared? Perhaps her behavior is
an indication that she neglected him as well, and either couldn't or
wouldn't lend support to her son.
I do hope this issue is addressed some time in the future. Mulder is
such a complicated character that I doubt all of his behavior has
stemmed directly from Sam's abduction. His family plays a big part in
his emotional makeup, and I for one would like to see more about Mulder
as a child in upcoming eps.
Adieu
RhymePhile
*******************
Hello, Samantha dear,
I hope you're feelin' fine/
And it won't be long until
I'm with you all the time
-- "Calling Baton Rouge"
Garth Brooks
hanna_nikkanen@nospamyahoo.com Hanna Nikkanen
> >him and somewhat helpless.
> >His father is distant, until Anasazi.
> >Neither of them was able to support him when Sam was abducted.
> >When he's on the phone with them and calls them Mom or Dad, they have to
> >ask if it's him.
> >They named him Fox.
> >But was he actually beaten or molested?
>
> neglect is just as damaging as the other two forms of abuse and more often
> than not harder to detect. I don't doubt for a second that Mulder was
> abused in some form as a child, most likely emotional abuse since there's no
> evidence that he's physically violent in relationships and that usually
> happens with children who are abused that way.
Kinda big generalisation. I'd say it's even more common for a physically
abused child to adapt the guilt system you mentioned instead of carrying
on the tradition of violence in their own relationships; many of them never
have the courage to face others as a whole person worthy of dealing with
the rest of the world, let alone using violence against other people.
Maybe it's all the fan fic messing with my head again, but I think there's
a big chance that Mulder was not only neglected as a child but also
physically abused. Having a violent father and a weak, cold mother isn't
that uncommon at all.
Though, that's not to say
> that there wasn't some physical abuse. Nor is there any real evidence of
> sexual abuse. However, he does have some traits one finds in children who
> are emotionally abused. He has low self esteem, and he has a guilt system
> that allows him to accept the blame for things that are not his fault. And
> I seriously doubt either parent gave much thought to his welfare and well
> being after Samanatha was taken, so it's a good bet his was neglected.
And that's what probably hurt him the most - all his feelings about
Samantha have gone unexpressed for so long that they've developed into
guilt. In his past all emotions have seemed somehow unacceptable so he
acts on that knowledge and still lets all his feelings go through the same
metamorphosis. (Which, of course, applies also to his love for Scully,
screams the little 'shipper in me.)
-Hanna
In a galaxy far, far away.
"What can we do?"
"You can strip Byers naked."
Sheesh, Mulder, haven't we just been waiting for your permission!
hanna_nikkanen@nospamyahoo.com Hanna Nikkanen
A person might appear self-secure like Mulder does and still have serious
problems with confidence under the surface. If something, an abused child
learns how to hide all unwanted emotions. For me, his arrogancy merely
tells about his need to show the world how he's not afraid - when it comes
to real personal relationships, he's terrified. Maybe this is already
getting far-fetched, but couldn't this be the reason for his paranoia? The
guy couldn't even trust his own parents or his own feelings, how is he to
trust complete strangers?
And remember, they *did* name him Fox. That's abuse if I've ever seen it.
Daydream59
>From: Rhyme...@webtv.net
> you have to notice that Fox has
>never really brought up any memories about how his father had treated
>him as a *child*.
Didn't he say something about he and his Dad being Indian Guides in Detour?
Daydreamer
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GeoRed
<hea...@home.com> writes:
>Me too. I don't think that there was any real "abuse" More like after Sam's
>abduction, What was a good loving family became cut off cold and isolated.
>Which is why the divorce happened.
But doesn't this assume that the only abuse is physical abuse? I my view, the
way his father treats him and the way he reacts to that treatment in Colony/End
Game is indicative of emotional abuse at the very least. There are more forms
of abuse than those of the physical or sexual nature. This is also exhibited
by Mulder's reaction in Anasazi.
Nonie Rider
> > there's no evidence that he's physically violent in relationships
> > and that usually happens with children who are abused that way.
Unless, of course, you agree with the slash premise that his hitting Krycek has a
sexual subtext. [grin]
--Nonie
Nonie Rider
> > Now Mulder does have blame issues, but I don't see him as a low self esteem
> > kinda guy.
The blame issues are part of the low-self esteem, but look at the number of times
he says negative things about himself (with wry humor, sure, but that's still part
of it). Look at the times when he is totally unable to cope, like his collapse in
his apartment in "One Breath," or the near-suicide scene in "Gethsemane."
And then look at Scully for contrast. Sure, she grieves terribly for Emily's slow
decline and death, and her faith wavers, and we see her in shock a few times. But
can you imagine her joking bitterly about herself, or being unable to cope with
her internal conflicts, much less contemplating suicide? Not her. Now there's a
person who WASN'T abused in childhood. She has a strong central selfhood, and
events don't shake it.
And fanfic reflects that. Stories have shown Mulder killing, or involved in a
seriously destructive relationship with Krycek, or becoming addicted to drugs, or
becoming a street bum, or getting tired of all of this and joining Krycek so he
doesn't have to make his own decisions anymore, or... And actually, the ones I've
seen rarely assume he's able to stay with the Bureau for more than another year.
While Scully, at least in the ones I've seen, does one of three things: she
continues as is, with or without falling in love with her partner; she becomes an
Assistant Director; and/or she marries Mulder and raises several children. Even
the stories where she copes with Mulder's death don't assume she'll lose that
central strength, much less kill herself.
Mind you, I may have missed some stories, but look at the contrast.
--Nonie
Diana Williams
Mrs. Mulder's behavior also reflects a seriously troubled household. It is
not uncommon for spouses of abusive partners (whether emotional, physical,
or sexual) to withdraw into themselves, especially when the abuse centers
around the children and they are helpless to do anything about it.
On the other hand (playing devil's advocate), losing a child can also make
a person withdraw and neglect the children left behind, even blaming them
for being alive when the other child is dead/missing.
--
Diana Williams
--My Inner Child is in Foster Care--
Kipler
emotional abuse. Lots of people have strained relationships with their parents
- particularly people whose families were struck by tragedy.
--Kipler
Veronica
Kipler wrote in message <199808232045...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
The problem these days is that every little incident is call "abuse" or
"neglect." This tends to cover up the serious abuse and neglect that
happens. Just when this stuff became politically correct to talk about, and
victims finally were getting a taste of what it's like to get support
without feeling shame or the other social stigmas, the media caught wind of
it. Now instead of getting serious treatment, this stuff gets broadcasts on
the Jerry Springer show.
It's getting trivialized and turned into a "buzz word." It's being used for
an excuse for anything, as in recent trials (not that I disagree in every
case.) And it doesn't stop there. It's reaching into nearly every corner of
our society. Some of the best sellers are victims "survivor stories." Some
of the most popular music too. (Jeremy, Pearl Jam springs to mind.) It's
even getting to young children. Unfortunately, in many cases, it's not
presented correctly. Here's an example:
In a recent shopping trip, I saw a mother with her child. The child decided
she wanted the cookies, and began to open them. The mother told her no, and
put the cookie on the shelf. The kid grabbed them again, and ripped open the
bag. The mother grabbed the bag from the kids hand, and smacked her hand.
The child screamed, and started saying "You can't do that! That's child
abuse! I'm gonna tell the cops on you!"
Of course the mother left, angry, flustered, embarrassed, and almost in
tears.
I hope she went home and paddled the kids butt.
I also hope she stops letting her child watch the talk shows.
After all, a child of around 6 or 7 should not react that way.
I would say that she shouldn't have taken the cookie too, but no kid is
perfect, and the mother looked shocked when the kid opened the bag, so I
assumed this was not the kids routine.
The point of my story: We need to make more responsible decisions about how
we label issues like this. No, in fan fiction, it doesn't make a real
difference, so long as when we encounter it, we recognize it. It's a
travesty that such a serious issue is being treated with such disregard.
Oh, and for the record, I don't think that Mulder suffered serious abuse as
a child. Yes, it's possible, but I don't think it's probable. I do however
think he has some serious intimacy issues, that come directly from his
parents. I'm just not ready to chalk it up to abuse. Bad parenting, yes.
Veronica
A recovered (ing?) abuse victim
Rhyme...@webtv.net
I don't think he was being serious, as usual. I think he was just poking
fun at Scully, as usual, too.
But look at the other times he has mentioned his childhood: in "Home"
where he talks about playing baseball, in "Paper Hearts" he talks about
climbing trees....all with Samantha as the focus of the stories. I can't
recall any time that Mulder has ever mentioned his happy childhood
memories and his father in the same sentence.
We did hear him mention that he knew he would be okay upon awakening
from a nightmare and hearing his father eating sunflower seeds (in the
ep with BJ Morrow and the carving of the Brother and Sister in the
chests of the victims...help me out here).
But can anyone recall a specific time where Mulder has memories about
his childhood and *good* memories about his father? He always seems to
equate happiness in his childhood years with Samantha.
CBlossom2
>drawn to people who will reject and hurt him (including Scully and Skinner,
>neither
>of whom is exactly warm)
Wait...I think these two people are of the few that have had a healthy impact
on Mulder's life...especially Scully. As others have said, trust is big issue
for Mulder, probably stemming from his childhood and issues he has from that
time. I can't see how his relationship with Scully is an example of how he
laches on to people who would tend to reject and hurt him in any way. In fact,
his relationship with Scully, as he's said himself recently, is what has often
kept his head above water. There has never been any evidence to suggest that
she would in any way deliberatly harm him. Therefore, I don't think Scully's
an example of that kind of symptom of abuse.
Skinner may have not been trusted in the beginning, but he's shown himself to
be worthy of the agents trust through his actions. And even when Scully didn't
trust Skinner, Mulder did (Redux and Redux II). I just don't see those
symptoms applying to these relationships.
About whether or not Mulder was abused, I'd have to say, no. I think that
Teena and Bill Mulder's marriage was strained from early on due to his
involvement with CSM and his goons. And by the time Samantha was abducted,
his demons were haunting him to the point where he probably neglected his
family. Samantha's abduction was just the kicker. It was the last straw that
opened up the closet wide open and there fell those skeletons that had just
been hidden but always there. So they finally got divorced. And Mulder got
neglected, which, I agree, can be as harmful as "traditional" abuse. In the
turmoil of the family tragedy and the beginnings of a broken marriage revealed,
he was forgotten and from there, I think his desperation for love and his
nature to put so much in trust began. Because his parents betrayed his trust
and had forgotten that there was another child who needed their love as well.
So while what Teena and Bill did was wrong and immature, I also believe that in
no way were their actions deliberate or definitely abusive. Mulder's estranged
relationship with his parents only testiments to their unwillingness to "got
there", to deal with all those bottled up and almost forgotten emotions of that
time.
Anyway, just adding into this interesting discussion. Seeing it in fanfic a
lot, and reading the different takes in stories has always been intriguing and
I've always wondered what others thought about it.
~Sakura
Maureen S. O'Brien
>Daydreamer mentioned the "Indian Guides" quote from "Detour".
>I don't think he was being serious, as usual. I think he was just
>poking fun at Scully, as usual, too.
As a former Indian Princess, daughter of a Brave, and sister to two
Indian Guides, I would like to protest this one. I _like_ the idea
that Mulder, once upon a time in his younger years, did get the chance
to have some kind of relationship with his dad. YMCA Indian Guides was a
perfect choice for this, as the Indian Guides program is a father/son
program for children too young to be in Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts.
Besides, putting on the paint at the Pow Wows was really fun...and
there's that tribe on the Vineyard, so I can have Mulder having the
same irony of having a 'real Indian' in his 'tribe' as we did with
the Shawnee folks in mine...and Samantha getting into Indian Princesses
just as Mulder is having to leave Indian Guides. A little sibling
rivalry over Samantha getting more time with Dad? Oh, and the sign
language stuff in the manual, and the amazing self-lighting bonfire
that lights when you call it, and the different colored feathers you
got, and the funky symbolic art on the headbands....
Huh. I gotta write this one, I think.
Maureen
CkXxSw007
>> kinda guy.
I always thought he had low self esteem. People aren't always really
demonstrative about it, acting suicidal and such. But if you look at how he
acts around his father, it's like he's afraid to disappoint him. He hangs his
head and slouches. And he always blames himself for things, like Scully's
cancer, etc. And look at the relationships he gets into. It's like he's trying
to punish himself. After all he's been through, it's not surprising. People
call him names now, and probably have his whole life.He may be fictional, but
he's still human.
Chelsea Kaiser
Obviously not a psychologist, or a speller.
CkXxSw007
>has a
>sexual subtext. [grin]
>
Freudians, sheesh.
CkXxSw007
relationship's. Diana left him because of her job, Bambi left him for a guy who
makes bug robots, and, this one particularly suggests unhealthy behavior,
Pheobe cheated on him in college. And yet, he let himself think that she would
be honest and faithful to him. It's like he's trying to punish himself,
probably because his good-for-nothing parents made him feel like Sam's
abduction was his fault. He's been nlaming himself for everything ever since.
James Chong and Co.
CkXxSw007 <ckxx...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808262016...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >> Now Mulder does have blame issues, but I don't see him as a low self
esteem
> >> kinda guy.
>
> I always thought he had low self esteem. People aren't always really
> demonstrative about it, acting suicidal and such. But if you look at how
he
> acts around his father, it's like he's afraid to disappoint him. He hangs
his
> head and slouches
Not just his father. Admittedly, in "Demons" he was under some kind of
mind-screwing treatment, but his actions are much the same with his mother
when he tries to confront her with her adultery. Then again, maybe that's
a natural reaction for someone under stress going against their parents ...
of course, it *could* be a Freudian thing, but I wouldn't know ... :)
And he always blames himself for things, like Scully's
> cancer, etc. And look at the relationships he gets into. It's like he's
trying
> to punish himself. After all he's been through, it's not surprising.
People
> call him names now, and probably have his whole life.
On the other hand, he does have a very strong drive to succeed -- Oxford's
no kiddie pool. And he *was* part of the Investigative Support Unit of the
FBI (see "Grotesque"), which appears to house some of the elite law
enforcement officers in the United States (in fact, I just read "Journey
into Darkness" by John Douglas and thoroughly recommend it as background
material for Mulder's past in the FBI.)
I would have thought that low self-esteem might have in some way precluded
him from greatness in these forms ... and then it begs the question: if he
does have *really* serious hangups about his past, how did he pass the
psych screen for FBI agents (this one can't be ignored -- it was referred
to in "Pusher".)
I'm for the Coin Theory: his darker side certainly has these aspects of
self-punishment to him, and low self-esteem -- at one stage of any "quest",
a penitent is bound to have these things rattling around in his head; but
on the other hand, he does have a flip side which believes in the ... um
... "holiness" of his quest, and is capable of doing practically anything
to advance that quest ... even graduating at Oxford, or becoming an FBI
agent.
As an addendum, does anybody think that he might have subconsciously chosen
to join the FBI as the most likely body from which he might find his
sister?
To get back on topic: I think there was a discussion years ago on the
group, sparked by someone who was asking if there was a group consensus on
whether Mulder had been physically abused as a child. I don't know if
there ever was such a consensus reached ...
I tend to think Mulder may have suffered, in terms of physical abuse, the
occasional slap across the face or black eye, especially around the time
that Samantha was abducted. On the other hand, I'm more for thinking that
the abuse was emotional, and unintended. Mulder's initial explanation to
Scully of the effect Samantha's abduction had on the family was that "It
tore the family apart. Nobody would talk about it." The months (or even
years) of underlying tension implied in that, I would tentatively submit,
is as deadly and destroying as physical abuse. Coming from a family with
some marriage problems, I can at the risk of sounding melodramatic say that
young Fox may not have needed to be physically abused -- the emotional
could well have been enough to make him what he is.
That Fox Mulder has managed to come so far, despite having such odds
stacked against him, is a testament to his own character, and to Chris
Carter's belief in overcoming adversity.
> He may be fictional, but he's still human.
Thank God for that (the human part, I mean. :))
> Chelsea Kaiser
> Obviously not a psychologist, or a speller.
--Pax,
Michael Aulfrey
(Who ain't a psychologist, either.)
RdhdFlyr82
The name Fox is abuse? My friend Anderson- his parents named him Anderson
Jeremy. He has a younger brother named Carson Nicholas. Now, THAT's horrible.
Especially paired with their last name. Anderson and Carson Clooney.
Diana Williams
Anderson
>Jeremy. He has a younger brother named Carson Nicholas. Now, THAT's
horrible.
>Especially paired with their last name. Anderson and Carson Clooney.
Think that's bad? A co-worker just named her DAUGHTER - are you ready for
it - Spencer.
--
Diana Williams
--My Inner Child is in Foster Care--
--Embrace your Inner Mulder--
ImXFScully
appeared overly traumatized by the experience. My idea of a really rotten name
is, say, Percy. Or Elmo.
And top this, if you can: a friend of mine has twin uncles named -- take a
deep breath -- Harley Lloyd and Marley Floyd. Now THAT is pain.
Amy
Diana Williams
RdhdFlyr82
>it - Spencer. Poor kid.
When I was 14, I temped in an office for the summer. The secretary was
pregnant, and she wanted to name the baby Casey whether it was a girl or a boy.
THe baby was born, and it was a girl. She and her husband, Phillip (who is a
complete SLEAZE, even the boss thought so), named the baby Cassye. Spelled
Cassye, pronounced Casey. I said, "Bonnie, that's Cassie. The poor kid's
going to have to correct every single teacher."
And my paternal grandfather was a twin. Originally, they named them...get
this...Julius John and John Julius. Isn't that horrible? This was 1902.
Finally, the parents realized it was too confusing, and changed John Julius to
John Silcox.
I was talking to Anderson this morning, and he said his dad is Jeremy Atticus
Clooney, after Jem Finch, from To Kill a Mockingbird. I find that strange, but
not as strange as what Bruce and Demi named their kids. Scout, Rumer, and I
forget the other one.
Now here's a name that takes the cake- Allen Stanley. Allen Stanley Glushakow.
I was flipping through the phone directory for my school, which includes
middle names. Poor Allen Stanley. His parents are very cruel.
Hehe. Boy, I really blabbered on here.
I have a nephew named Spencer, BTW. He's pretty ugly, even for a 19 month old.