THE ACID DESK: Vol 1, No 9 - Plagarism Proof
CiCi Lean2
plagarism and to clear up the many alterations that were made to the orginal
text.
CiCi Lean, 1999
========
THE ACID DESK
The Underground XFFanfic Newsletter
Vol 1. No. 9
Welcome to THE ACID DESK, a bi-weekly newsletter discussing the latest fics,
recs, trends, discussions, and even *gasp* gossip in the X-Files Fanfic
Community.
All opinions expressed herein belong solely to the author, CiCi Lean.
Write to me and tell me how wrong I am!
CiCi Lean
cici...@yahoo.com
"Some people should die. That's just unconscious knowledge." -- "Pigs In Zen"
=========
HOT BYTES
Great Authors, Stories & More!
~~~~~~~~~
THE WORK OF "MEREDITH" --
(http://www.geocities.com/area51/zone/2095/meredith.html)
"Underrated" is a word I hate using while describing a -very- talented author
who, for some unknown reason, isn't being heralded to the skies, but
unfortunately I can't think of any other. Meredith has been such a long-time
staple of fine MSR writing, and such an innovator in so many ways, for so many
years, I really can't figure it out. Maybe it's her unassuming and gentle
personality, maybe it's her careful, painstaking craftsmanship that limits the
number of fics she presents to us on the basis of quality, not quantity, or
maybe she should change her posting name to "Really Fantastic Author You
Shouldn't Miss!," but I have a feeling that just isn't her style. [grin]
She's generous with her readers, giving them wonderful prose, beautifully and
cleanly presented, along with characterization that many of us could take a
lesson from. Look, when I say that she's *that* good, trust me... she's *that*
good.
"Heaven In Hell's Despair" is her "signature" piece, but if you stop there, you
are missing FAR too much else that's great and wonderful in her catalog of
goodies. I personally would recommend ALL of her works, especially her latest
"Lower Heaven" the long awaited "follow-up" to HIHD. Read 'em and weep
(especially if you are writer. Yes, this is what we have to aspire to.)
So, get thee onto thy browser, plug in the URL I give to you and READ her
stuff. After reading and falling in love with this fine author, be SURE to
send her a letter, even if it's just a little one. Remember, our old XFFanfic
troopers, especially one as graceful and talented as this as this, need those
sweet lumps of feedback sugar to keep them writing.
Go, run... read. And don't forget that feedback.
THE WORK OF MEREDITH:
http://www.geocities.com/area51/zone/2095/meredith.html
MORE RECS FOR THE WEEK!
(Get Them Hot, Get Them Fresh!)
CiCi's XFFanfic Picks Page!
http://www.geocities.com/soho/workshop/3293/picks.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~
GOSSIP CORNER
Eat Your Heart Out, Cindy Adams
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Item #1: Which poor deluded sap was left twisting naked in the wind by her
good *pals* who had convinced her that USENET flaming under a pseudonym was not
only FUN, but that it was perfectly SAFE provided she use a certain encrypted
gateway that they themselves eschew, only to be proven wrong, wrong, WRONG?
All together now, boys and girls... WHOOPS!
Item #2: Which plucky megalomaniac has caused quite a snarling stir during
their delightfully shameless bid for readers and top dog honors during a recent
award giveaway, especially after it WORKED LIKE A CHARM! Good for her -- doing
what we all only dare to dream. Thank God there's always next year, non?
Item #3: If someone throws a retirement, and no one notices, how long will it
take for them to sneak back? The Acid Desk Bookie Office is now OPEN! Odds
are, whoops, 1 to 1 for less than a week later! Hmmm, sorry, but all bets are
now off ladies and gents. (Hey, I give you plenty of my damn time, so my money
is totally off-limits, punky bears.)
~~~~~~~~
ATXCARAMBA!
The Latest From The Usenet Front (alt.tv.x-files.creative)
~~~~~~~~
THE LITTLE NEWSGROUP THAT COULD
(and the Big Newsgroup That Just Couldn't STAND It!)
~~~~~~~~
The day after alt.tv.x-files.creative.mature was created on alt.configure is
the day I decided to take a short vacation from USENET. And it wasn't because
I was particularly unhappy with this new newsgroup's creation.
(Nor was I particularly happy about it either. Frankly, I try not to think too
hard about things that are inherently meaningless, such as the creation of a
new ng in a hierarchy that boasts such intriguing topics as "alt.fatgrrls.love"
and "alt.binaries.pictures.roadkill." Call me crazy, but that's just the way I
am.)
But, knowing that most denizens of atxc would not be quite as open-minded, I
did take that vacation and boy, it was the smartest thing I ever did.
Because what I returned to a week later was a pile of broken bodies that made
the "Atlanta battlefield" scene in "Gone With the Wind" look like the aftermath
of a rotten "free shrimp" night at the old Beefsteak Charlie's.
Yes, it was *that* bad.
Wincing my way through mile long threads of foot stamping, blue-faced tantrums,
fists pummeling madly against cyber floors and pillows, I could only cover my
ears against the echos of howling that must have reverberated through USENET
all the way to alt.bunnies.on.a.stick.
There were screams, there were cries, there were meetings and committees
formed, rmgrps plotted and tendered, there were threats and accusations...
There were GRUESOME AND FATAL SELF-IMMOLATIONS!
(All right, there weren't any of those. Unfortunately. Hey, a newsletter editor
can dream, can't she?)
All of them over a new "alt" newsgroup that would have died its own quiet death
if everyone had just shrugged and went on with their business.
But, as the endless rant went, was it "right" to create this new newsgroup
without "permission" or "voting"? Was it FAIR? WAS IT "NICE"?
Who knows? Who cares? It was already done.
Slightly saner folks asked and then asked again, was creating this new
newsgroup so spur of the moment really such a good idea?
Probably not, but, let me repeat, IT WAS DONE. For anyone who knew the
slightest thing about USENET (and since there appeared to be dozens of
"protocol" and "nettiquite" experts pontificating all over the place, there
should have been at least *one* person on ATXC who did) they would have known
it was TOO DAMN LATE to do anything about ATXCM but ignore it.
That's right. Ignore it completely.
For you see, dear friends, ATXCM was already in existence by this time and the
*only* way to have gotten rid of it (beyond the incredibly rude and pointless
posting of a rmgrp to alt.configure, which was attempted, but brutally spurned
and rightly so by the sysops) would have been to limit its propagation via
complete and total... what, boys and girls?
Silence.
That's right. The ONLY way that ATXCM could have been destroyed in a quick and
efficient manner was silence. And, let me tell you, it would have worked like
a charm, limiting its propagation to such a narrow corridor of USENET as to
virtually guarantee its swift removal from the scene.
There would have been no flame wars, no unhappiness and ultimately, no ATXCM.
Wouldn't that have been great? Everything you could have possibly wanted all
in one easy step.
But that wasn't to be.
What's that prayer again? God grant me the serenity to accept the things I
cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know
the difference?
Well, there wasn't a whole lot of serenity or wisdom flying around ATXC that
week.
In fact, all I saw were a bunch of hysterics hanging themselves with a rope
they themselves wove. A group that wasn't lucid enough to see beyond their
immediate and violent emotional reaction to be able to pull themselves together
and work out a problem in such a way that could have possibly resulted not only
in achieving their desired goal, but earning back some of the respect that the
newsgroup had lost during the *last* five or six pointless flame wars.
Here was an occasion, it could have been magnificently risen to, but instead
all that is left behind in the smelly ashes is a new newsgroup and a DejaNews
record of ATXC's loudest, scariest and most pathetic week.
Color me amazed.
So, welcome, ATXCM to the alt.tv.xf hierarchy.
Good luck to you, and may you learn your lessons in what NOT to do under ANY
circumstances from your "immature" sister group -- ATXC.
NANNY-NANNY HEY!: Just an F.Y.I. that the Naughty Nanny Plagiarist page is
down as of a few weeks ago, no doubt in response to the concerted efforts of
the XFFanfic Community. Kudos to those who cared enough about our author's
original efforts to take the minute and support them. Kudos also to Lydia
Bower, Karen Rasch and Plausible Deniability for their cool heads and general
good humor during what must have been a miserable and humiliating episode.
It's cold comfort, but while NN had no scruples, she did have taste. Keep
writing guys, we need you.
~~~~~~~~~
THE GOSS-IPER
Notes on The Archive of Note
~~~~~~
THE BIG ARCHIVE THAT COULDN'T
(and How No One Was Very Surprised...)
~~~~~~~
A scenario even Chicken Little refused to contemplate.
He looks up. *Gasp!* Good Lord! His dire predication has come true! The sky
*has* fallen! It's a terrible, FRIGHTENING sight!
And, much to his shock, no one notices.
Or cares.
Yes, the inevitable has happened as that Bulging Bandwidth Behemoth, The Mighty
Gossamer X-Philes USA is tossed from its server sometime in early February.
That's right, Gossamer is down to, count 'em, -two- mirror sites, (Birdfeeder
and Germany) both of them waiting like shivering dominos to follow in Big Boy's
wake, straight down into Overload Hell.
It *is* a dire picture this time, especially after the news on the grapevine is
that most server owners would rather eat a tube of Crest on a Saltine cracker
than host an infamous bandwidth hog such as Gossamer no matter how prestigious
it might be.
But, what's the *really* interesting story here?
No, it's not that Gossamer is in danger of collapse yet *again,* but the
fandom's latest reaction to this possible disaster is what really intrigues me.
No screams of "Save Gossamer!" or long threads of possible solutions ranging
from the ridiculous to the sensible are being heard anywhere. No mourning or
sympathy cards for our harried archivists or offers of volunteering are coming
in from any corner of Wonderland.
Barely a ripple has registered across the community, with only the odd, "Hey, I
can't access X-Philes" responded to by a "Oh, for God's sake can't you just
SHUT UP?" breaking through the daily monotony.
The relative silence is eerie and a far cry from the desperate panic of only a
year ago.
Of course, there are reasons for this seemingly drastic change in attitude.
And not least of which is the fact that Gossamer has long ago ceased to have a
timely relevance to a community that used to depend upon it for nearly all its
reading and storing needs.
Now a full six months behind on archiving, with only two working mirrors,
creaky hardware and even creakier software, and twice the downtime versus up,
Gossamer has finally and officially become the "tourist trap" of XFFanfic.
Sure, it's gotten the mainstream media attention via "The New York Times" and
"The Telegraph" but like the Carnegie Deli in Manhattan only out-of-towners and
new arrivals go anywhere near the place, not realizing it's living off
decades-old fame and that any native with a working set of taste buds wouldn't
be caught dead eating there. (Not unless five pounds of old, greasy pastrami
piled ten thousand feet high on stale bread actually *appeals* to you, of
course.)
In short, between authors' homepages and Ephemeral, regular readers and writers
alike just can't be bothered anymore.
I mean, how seriously can you take a archive that offers this as a time line
for its eventual return to the Web?
"It'll be up when it goes up."
Oh, okay. That says it all we suppose.
The sad fact is that most folks learned their lesson from the panic of a year
back. Yes, there -are- folks who are willing to build mirrors, give obscene
amounts of bandwidth and time and tech help in any way they can, and many of
these folks are honest and legit in their willingness to give their all to the
Gossamer cause.
So, will it happen? Nope, nope and nope.
Why, dare you ask? Simple.
Because even the casual observer has finally gotten the message that the
Gossamer administration doesn't want anyone's help. I won't presume to know why
they don't (although I have my theories,) they can explain it to you
themselves, and I'll leave any guessing to my readers.
But the fact is, that without immediate intervention, overhauling, and complete
restructuring, Gossamer is eventually going down for good. I'm not saying this
will happen today, or even tomorrow, but it cannot go on this way. The fandom
is too big, too busy, too prolific and there *is* only so much ceiling room
left for a site as large, as overloaded and central as this one.
It's just a simple fact.
And with it are going down a ton of fics that are exclusive to the place,
really old fics from '94 and '95 that can be found nowhere else, whose authors
have long left 'net, and therefore cannot be reached to gain permission to
re-archive these fics into smaller, safer havens (perhaps such as a "Golden
Oldie" site or the like?)
What happens to those? Who *owns* them now? Who owns the "Gossamer"
trademark? Is there, can there be such a thing? What about mirror sites?
What about splitting up the archive into either old and new, romo and non-romo,
date or alphabetically or anything resembling a manageable site and who will
*allow* certain folks to run those sites and why should they be the ones who
*grant* that permission?
And so on, and so on and so on.
So, while being being a fully functioning, up-to-date, *useful* archive and
resource for the fanfiction community is no longer on Gossamer's list of
immediate (or even long-term) priorities there are still serious implications
of a complete Gossamer blow-out, not least of which is the loss of our
"heritage."
One that can't be held hostage for very much longer.
So, come out, come out wherever you are Chicken Little. You were right, the
sky has fallen. And no, we aren't that scared anymore, but, then again, there
is just something we might be forgetting.
~~~~~~~~~
FANFIC LINE OF THE WEEK:
(Where The Names Have Been Changed to Protect...well, Everyone.)
~~~~~~~~~
from: "The Fire of Our Love" by "happya...@badmetaphor.com"
"His loins were burning brightly."
Uh, Mulder? Don't panic, but I think we have a situation here...
~~~~~~~~~
GRATUITOUS PENDY MENTION OF THE WEEK
(A.P.I.G.P: All Pendrell is Good Pendrell)
~~~~~~~~~
Proving there's life after Pendrell, kudos to the talented Brendan Beiser for
his performance on Showtime's "Deadman's Gun" and "Nightman." No, I didn't get
to see "Deadman's Gun" [sobbing hysterically] but I did see some fine scenery
chewing on "Nightman" which is repeated again this up and coming March 22nd
re-run. See him snarl, see him kill, see him cackle with evil glee, see him
wear RED and get away with it! (Check local listings for time.)
Oh, and if you are at Sundance or some other independent film fests, don't
forget to check out "Aardvark," "The Vigil," "Dirty" and "The Deadline" for
more Brendan than CC ever gave us. (Yes, there are no labcoats in any of
these, but it's still better than nothing... [grin])
"THE VIGIL" WEBSITE: http://www.thevigil.com/vigil.html
{And be sure to write to him and ask him to wipe that weasel off of his face
when he's done...thanks! :-}
~~~~~~~
Rant-O-Rama
"AND THE WINNER IS..."
by CiCi Lean, 1999
~~~~~~~~
Mirror, mirror on the wall, who has the biggest ego of them all?
Don't answer that dearie, unless you want to go for a walk in the woods with
Mr. Hunter, all right?
Ah, Award Season. The smell of boiling blood is in the air and hot, sweaty
jealous glances are being strewn about with measured carelessness and itchy
trigger fingers are poised over those "send e-mail" buttons with intentions
both good and evil. Stuffers and pranksters, ulcer-ridden authors and gung-ho
readers, egomaniacs and sobbing newbie hopefuls, every one of them shoving,
pushing, KILLING for their chance to become a player in the ultimate game of
Fanfic Chess -- becoming the Queen of FOREVER via an actual award!
Doncha just LOVE it?
I'm not going to talk about the ATXC Spooky Awards today, mainly because they
are deserving of their very own Special Edition. (Lucky, lucky them! *cough*)
Instead, I'm going to talk about a much smaller, lesser known award, one that
went off surprisingly well in its first year of creation.
Yes, I'm talking about The Whammys.
Ah, the poor, innocent Whammys, the annual XFFanfic Slash Awards. An award
that quietly imploded upon itself during the very last days of voting and has
now disappeared into that sad and overcrowded bin labeled "Ideas We Thought
Would Be Fun."
It's a crying shame really, because the Whammys were created by very nice
people with the excellent intentions of promoting a genre that is *not* beloved
by the other awards in our fandom, but has a quality of writing and a stable of
talent that doesn't deserved to be so roundly and casually ignored by all the
other awards, big and small.
From my observations, the Whammy committee consisted of three honest,
sensitive, idealistic people, who decided to take a large chunk of time out of
their busy real life schedules, while also abandoning many of their more
pleasurable on-line activities to run this award and their intentions were,
*gasp* -- good.
They really believed that they'd be presenting the best that slash had to offer
in a relaxed and fun environment and that everyone would be so happy that the
genre was finally getting a fair shake, that they'd actually behave themselves.
It would be a gay, educational time for all involved and with any luck, an
award like this would give a much needed shot of legitimacy to a genre that's
been called everything from "garbage" to "trash" to "canonless porn" by the
ignorant masses over in GenLand.
Unfortunately, what the poor Whammy committee *didn't* realize that in fact
what they were offering was as far removed from a public service as one could
get even if they were presenting a "Do It Yourself" suicide booth at a mental
health clinic.
That unbeknownst to them, they were facilitating the presentation of one of the
most fearsome, the most violent, the most shameless, the most TERRIFYING of all
the green-eyed psychodramas that could ever plague the narrow confines of this
universe or any other...
An ego contest between amateur writers.
Dear God in Heaven! What could -possibly- be worse?
(All right, a production of "CATS" directed by the House Impeachment Managers,
featuring Rep. Henry Hyde singing from a giant litter box *does* come to mind,
but let's not go there, okay?)
Anyway, everything appeared okay at first, as the nominations went off with
relatively few hitches with the most serious being the huge, nearly
impossible-to-download listings page and some minor scuffles over eligibility.
Most folks voted for their favorites without too many complaints and, for a
while, everything seemed just ducky.
(Just to keep the record straight, I didn't vote in the nominations, I *did*
get nominated in two categories, "Best Other" and "Best Humor" and I did vote
in the final round. Yes, and I voted for myself. I mean, duh. {grin})
But, gosh, that last round. It seems so odd to me that the nominations are
always so peaceful, but when it comes to that final announcement, that
"ultimate" crowning of ONE fic to lord over all the rest, people just seem to
lose their minds.
So, yes, there was stuffing and cheating and screaming and misery during the
final round of this year's Whammy Awards and a lot of it.
(According to one member of the administration, it wasn't the authors who were
doing or encouraging the cheating, but groups of overzealous friends and
readers of various authors and certain factions of trolls who were trying to
get certain authors disqualified for humiliation purposes. Most of these folks
were caught via their IPs and fake AOL addys, but a lot weren't. In the end,
everyone was basically suspect and the award disintegrated under pressure to
the committee.)
The final result? All the nominees were declared winners and the poor, tired
Whammy committee took off, bruised and battered, never to run another award
again.
Now, is this a shame? Yes, especially for this particular genre.
Was it unexpected? No, not really.
Over the years, I've seen authors get physically ill during the waiting period
for the final winners, seen readers fight like dogs to round up support for
their favorites, heard of folks never speaking to each other again before,
during and after these awards. I mean, I've seen it ALL and none of it was
very nice.
And I don't think all this cheating and angst happens because an author wants
to be known as "the best" either. No, I believe it's something much, much
worse than that.
See, I don't think any author necessarily wants to win over everyone else...
But they sure as hell don't to lose to someone they don't like.
To a writer, THAT is a fate much, -much- worse than the simple loss of an
award. Really, I know writers who would rather drop dead than see an author
they dislike or have no respect for win ANYTHING over them.
Thus the hysteria. And ultimately all the nasty, underhanded, miserable things
that go along with that insecurity. Such as cheating, stuffing, fighting,
crying, and all the rest.
So, what's the solution to all this silliness you might ask? Well, I guess the
obvious one would be not to throw awards, but I can also see the reader's
perspective of things. Awards are great form of recommendations for them, a
way to send feedback via voting and a nice way to make their own mark felt in a
world that often seems to view them as outsiders ... interlopers even.
Another solution would be to do away with that *final* First Place prize and
let the nominees share for each category, thus reducing hostilities to a
minimum, and removing the need for cheating of any kind. It's vaguely
unsatisfying, but the peace might be worth it.
Or, we can just all throw an award and give them to ourselves on a daily basis,
for the mere act of completing, editing and posting a fic of any kind, which in
my view, is often an act of heroism unto itself and deserving of *something.*
We can call them... the "I Made This!" Award.
And give ourselves a first prize every single time we post.
CiCi Lean, 1999
~~~~~~~~
NEW!
THE ACID DESK HAS GONE BI-LINGUAL!
For the benefit of our comprehension-challenged readers, The Acid Desk is now
offered in both English and "Moron," courtesy of the Dialectizer (tm.)
When signing up for home delivery of the Acid Desk please specify (to the best
of your ability) which copy you'll need. Certain satirists in particular might
want to take advantage of this offer, since our editors have noticed a distinct
struggle upon their parts to understand the various subtleties of The Acid
Desk's humor. We don't blame them pesonally, because remember, faulting
genetics *is* the polite thing to do these days.
So, for those folks who "just don't get it," get your copy of THE ACID DESK in
"Moron" today!
SAMPLE TRANSLATION:
THE ACID DESK HAS GONE BI-LINGUAL! Doihh, COOL! F' de benebit of our
c'prehenshun-challengid readehs, duuhhhh, De Acid Desk is now offehid in bod
English 'n "Moron," courtesy of de Dialeckizeh (tm.) When signigg up f' home
delibehy of de Acid Desk blease specify (to de best of your abiltiby) which
copy you'll need. Cehtain satirists in particular mite want t' take adbantage
of dis offeh, siss our editors habe noticid a distinct struggle upon deir parts
t' undehstand de barous subtleties of De Acid Desk's yoomeh. Webuh don't blame
dem pesonal, cuz remembeh, faultigg genetics *is* de polite digg t' do. So, f'
dose folks who "dgust don't get it, uh," get your copy of THE ACID DESK in
"Moron" today! Doihh, COOL!
~~~~~~~~~~~
That's it for this edition. Thanks to all my friends and supporters who
continue to write to me and request The Acid Desk and give me good vibes in
general. Love ya all! Come again next time, and I'll have some more
snarky rants, squealing raves, gratuitous Pendrell Slapping, filthy gossip and
a whole lot more!
THE ACID DESK is, hopefully, a bi-weekly (monthly?) newsletter, written &
created by CiCi Lean.
This newsletter may NOT be copied, forwarded or posted to any other list,
USENET news group of web page without express permission of the author, CiCi
Lean (cici...@yahoo.com). In short, if you sneak it around, I'll catch you
and eat you alive. (And I chew 100 times per bite, just like Mama Lean taught
me
to.)
All comments are welcome. Send to cici...@yahoo.com
TO GET "HOME DELIVERY" OF THE ACID DESK:
Send an E-mail to: acid-desk...@makelist.com
bleepi...@ihateclowns.com
for the first time, and I guess I see why CiCi never posts it in public. I
wouldn't want public scrutiny of it, either. I could read between the lines
just fine without the Flacid Desk "translation." It's pretty odd to post
advertisements pointing to the web page attacking the morons of atxc (i.e.,
everybody but CiCi and her buds) and Gossamer ON atxc. Reminds me of our old
friend Geckoliz.
By the way, guys, it's "plagiarism," NOT "plagarism" or "plaguarism" or even
"plagerist." And I think it's also "flaccid," but that looked more like
parody than illiteracy.
Bleeping Alien
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
CiCi Lean2
<snip>
I didn't post this to pique or debate anything. I posted it solely as proof
that my orginal text was stolen, altered and posted without my permission along
with my identity, which was stolen and used to post these plagiarized and
altered works.
If you wish to debate content here, you are missing the point completely (and
dare I say it, most likely have an agenda all your own.)
CiCi Lean
The Circle of CiCi
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/3293/index.html
Brandon Ray
CiCi Lean2 wrote:
> BleepingAlien wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> I didn't post this to pique or debate anything. I posted it solely as proof
> that my orginal text was stolen, altered and posted without my permission along
> with my identity, which was stolen and used to post these plagiarized and
> altered works.
>
> If you wish to debate content here, you are missing the point completely (and
> dare I say it, most likely have an agenda all your own.)
And you DON'T have an agenda?
I'm tryin' really, really hard not to just burst out laughin' here.... :)
>
>
> CiCi Lean
>
> The Circle of CiCi
> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/3293/index.html
--
"So, are you two the Fred and Ginger of X-Files fanfic?!?" -- Bonnie, commenting
on "Alternatives 5: Afterglow"
==============================
Ease your karmic burden! Visit my fanfic today!
http://www.avalon.net/~publius/MyStories.html
WickdZoot
This wasn't even parody, this was just theft.
zoot
...[It's] a simply Gothic little place consisting of three of borderline
personalities, a trailer park sophist, a dyslexic and two old dykes
struggling not to pop out of their bondage gear...
The Marquise De Lean
WickdZoot
Brandon Ray
But thanks for playing....we'll be sending you a copy of the home game....
;)
WickdZoot wrote:
> Ah, but of course, you don't either, right? <rolling eyes>
>
> zoot
--
KIMBERLY
>If the point of this was to pique curiosity, it worked. I read the Acid
Desk
>for the first time, and I guess I see why CiCi never posts it in public.
Did you happen to catch this line: "All opinions expressed herein belong
solely to the author, CiCi Lean." I'm assuming the reason why she has a
list is not because she is afraid of posting her opinion, quite the
contrary, CiCi just gives you an option. (Which by the way is more than I
had after opening up *your* very opinionated, spiteful e-mail.)
>It's pretty odd to post
>advertisements pointing to the web page attacking the morons of atxc (i.e.,
>everybody but CiCi and her buds) and Gossamer ON atxc.
So, tell me...you haven't noticed that lately AXTC has gotten a little out
of hand around here? CiCi is merely pointing out the obvious. Yeah, I
realize that with this post I'm only adding fuel to the dying embers. But I
fail to see how you can say CiCi is attacking anyone, she is merely pointing
out that these flame wars are really getting old. Same with Gossamer.
>
>By the way, guys, it's "plagiarism," NOT "plagiarism" or "plagiarism" or
even
>"plagiarist."
Really, has it ever happened to you? Have you ever had an opinion, or
written anything and then had someone claim it as their own? Right down to
an e-mail address? I'm thinking no...
So, just so I'm interpreting this right...it's not okay to plagiarize
fiction, but hey if it's someone's opinion then by God, run with it! Yeah
that makes a whole hell of a lot of sense...
> And I think it's also "flaccid," but that looked more like
>parody than illiteracy.
>
If it was a parody then why hide? I'm sure CiCi can take it as she dishes it
out. If you have an opinion that differs from hers, then why not tell her?
Instead this fool has wasted my time and yours with this deception. Instead
they would have paid attention to this line in CiCi's newsletter:
"This newsletter may NOT be copied, forwarded or posted to any other
list, USENET news group of web page without express permission of the
author, CiCi Lean."
Instead, they hid like cowards that they are. Look kids, do you want to
share your thoughts? Have something you want to get off your chest? Then be
an adult and state it in your own words. If you can't do that, at least have
the courtesy to take your medication before logging on.
End of rant...
Kimberly
WickdZoot
>
>But thanks for playing....we'll be sending you a copy of the home game....
>;)
>
This has something to do with the issue of plagiarism? Does it make plagiarism
okay?
Just curious--
Dasha K
>share your thoughts? Have something you want to get off your chest? Then be
>an adult and state it in your own words. If you can't do that, at least have
>the courtesy to take your medication before logging on.
>
>End of rant...
>
>
>Kimberly
That was very well said and I just want to add a big-ass ditto.
Medication for all the leetle plotters and schemers!
Dasha K.
Admitting your fanfic problem is the first step...
Shameless plug- come see Dasha K's Fanfic-O-Rama
Lisby
WickdZoot wrote:
Perhaps, Sheare, this is a question you need to ask yourself, as you took the
entire text of multiple stories by Hindy Bradley and I and inserted your own
vicious commentary then created a Web site just to show to show them off. And all
lacking our permission. So, as Cici so often says, "Pot. Kettle. Black."
And no, Sheare, my using one paragraph of Complicated Shadows to promote your
story as the excellent piece of work it is was not out of line with any accepted
definition of fair use. That one won't cut it, and never did as an excuse for your
subsequent behavior.
Lisby
Veronica
Lispy wrote in message <36E57172...@earthlink.net>...
>
>
>WickdZoot wrote:
>
>> >Ah, but you see, I'm not the one claiming to be an injured innocent.
>> >
>> >But thanks for playing....we'll be sending you a copy of the home
game....
>> >;)
>> >
>>
>> This has something to do with the issue of plagiarism? Does it make
plagiarism
>> okay?
>>
>> Just curious--
>>
>> zoot
the
>entire text of multiple stories by Hindy Bradley and I and inserted your
own
>vicious commentary then created a Web site just to show to show them off.
And all
>lacking our permission. So, as Cici so often says, "Pot. Kettle. Black."
OK. Fine. Hi, Lisby. *I* didn't put any of your text on a web page. Matter
of fact, I don't think I've ever even read it.
So. Let me ask for zoot.
Does it make plagiarism OK? Was what was done to CiCi fair? Right?
Do you condone this plagiarism?
I know I don't think it was right. I certainly don't condone it. I hope CiCi
chews the punk who did this into little pieces.
>>Lisby
~Veronica
Hindy Bradley
CiCi Lean2 wrote:
>
> Since someone has decided to plaguarize me, I'm posting this as proof of the
> plagarism and to clear up the many alterations that were made to the orginal
> text.
>
> CiCi Lean, 1999
> ========
> THE ACID DESK
> The Underground XFFanfic Newsletter
> Vol 1. No. 9
<big snip-o-rama>
Hello? Has anyone read this tripe by our supposed leader of the
anti-plagiarism posse?
The at-scum article decries a non-existent flame war. The gossip column
is
so vague as to be baffling. After three tries, I still can't make it
through the Gossamer diatribe, but I sense that she is neither for it
nor
for its demise. And, lastly, the Whammys, where apparently it was
proven that our entire community consists of either cheaters or
egomaniacs
who were lucky not to have had to deal with loss because they're all a
bunch of whining babies.
Here's my favourite paragraph:
>>Over the years, I've seen authors get physically ill during the
waiting period for the final winners, seen readers fight like dogs to
round up support for their favorites, heard of folks never speaking to
each other again before, during and after these awards. I mean, I've
seen it ALL and none of it was very nice.<<
Got that? "None" of it was nice. So, masks off and, I guess, diapers
on
because that's what we really are - mewling infants, not fit to share
the
playpen with Lil and Phil or CiCi and Zoot.
Give me a break.
Hindy
Dasha K
I don't thinkHindy's text was big enough for me to read, what with going blind
from my lace-making job and all...
Okay, folks. Can we just shut up for a while?
It's wrong to plagerize. We all know that. The person who "re-organized" the
Acid Desk was an idiot with too much time on his/her hands. If that person is
found, he/she should be shunned like an Amish with a cell phone. End of story.
So, anyone read any good fic lately?
WickdZoot
>blind
>from my lace-making job and all...
LOL. Thanks, Dash, I thought maybe those cataracts had finally done me in!
BethLynn
.>Hello? Has anyone read this tripe by our supposed leader of the
>anti-plagiarism posse?
*looks accusingly at posse* Damn, I thought I was the leader of the
anti-plagiarism posse this time.
BethLynn
FEB
WickdZoot
>anti-plagiarism posse this time.
>
>
So did I, honest!
Halrloprillalar
das...@aol.com (Dasha K) wrote:
> If that person is
> found, he/she should be shunned like an Amish with a cell phone. End of story.
This has nothing to do with the thread at all, but I just wanted to note
that there's a really cool article in the Jan 99 ish of Wired about
Amish people using cell phones and not being shunned. :)
-Hal
Woodinat
>From: Hindy Bradley <hzbr...@home.com>
>Date: 3/9/1999 4:58 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <36E598F7...@home.com>
>
Hindy wrote:
>Hello? Has anyone read this tripe by our supposed leader of the
>anti-plagiarism posse?
>
<snip>
The point isn't whether the Acid Desk is nice or not. Heck, the name is Acid
Desk, not Gentle Spring Water Desk. It's supposed to have potentially
controversial opinions. That's what editorials do.
The point is, someone faked CiCi's email addy, purposely took huge parts of her
editorial, inserted a couple of nasty comments, and then posted it. Plagiarism
isn't just fiction. It can happen with editorials, journalism articles, etc.
Now, even if you don't like CiCi, this is something for the community to worry
about. With all the anonymous email programs out there, someone could fake any
person's addy, and post anything. Heck, it's already happened. In the case of
the fake Acid Desk, this was not only identity stealing, but plagiarism as
well.
Well, that's just my opinion.
Woodinat
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel: What do you want for Christmas, Crow?
Crow: I wanna decide who lives and who dies
Joel: Oh, I don't know...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Nalaktok
>Hello? Has anyone read this tripe by our supposed leader of the
anti-plagiarism posse?
Are you sure you know what you mean when you say tripe? or do you mean
diatribe?
I don't get it.
Has anyone read this [pig intestines that when cooked right is acutally
mouth-wateringly delicious] by our supposed leader of the anti-plagiarism
posse?
Is there another meaning to the word that I'm as of yet unaware of?
- Felix
"I think I'll [proclaim] my apartment an independant country and declare war on
the people above me for voilating my airspace"
Loligo Opalescens
<various snips>
>~~~~~~~~
>ATXCARAMBA!
>The Latest From The Usenet Front (alt.tv.x-files.creative)
>~~~~~~~~
>THE LITTLE NEWSGROUP THAT COULD
>(and the Big Newsgroup That Just Couldn't STAND It!)
>~~~~~~~~
>Silence.
>
>That's right. The ONLY way that ATXCM could have been destroyed in a quick and
>efficient manner was silence. And, let me tell you, it would have worked like
>a charm, limiting its propagation to such a narrow corridor of USENET as to
>virtually guarantee its swift removal from the scene.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see how that's true. Was the debate a
colossal waste of our collective time? Yes. But would silence have
made ATXCM go away? I don't see why.
I presume that "Zoot" created the group for the purpose of having
people post fanfic and commentary there. Vera brought the group to
our attention before Zoot made any public announcements, so I don't
know if she was planning to or not. Maybe she was just going to send
private invites to interested parties. But even so, those interested
parties probably could have gotten their sysadmins to add the group
with enough prodding (after all, it *had* been created), and then we'd
be exactly where we are now, which is: people who want to post there
do, people who don't, don't, and people with personal grudges against
ATXCM frequent posters troll the place.
Maybe you know something I don't know. Like, maybe Zoot created the
group just to piss people off, and if ATXC hadn't risen to the bait
she would have just abandoned the group and let it die. If that were
the case, then yes, you could technically say that it was the ATXC
riot that allowed the group to survive. But if you're claiming that
that's what happened, then that says a lot more about Zoot than about
ATXC.
>Here was an occasion, it could have been magnificently risen to, but instead
>all that is left behind in the smelly ashes is a new newsgroup and a DejaNews
>record of ATXC's loudest, scariest and most pathetic week.
Honestly now, is this hyperbole or do you think it truly was the
worst? I seem to remember there were some awfully vicious and
personal flame wars involving Gil Whats-his-name, back in the old
days... Obviously, what we need to answer questions like this is a
Flame War Archive, with altercations neatly threaded so that we can
follow each insult and counter-insult. Hey, and once we have the list
of eligible flame wars, we could have awards! The Toasties! Meanest
Flame War, Longest Flame War, Most Illogical Post in a Flame War...
It's a surefire way to build a sense of community around here.
Look, let me set sarcasm aside to make sure my point gets made. I
happen to enjoy a certain amount of public flaming and
gossip-mongering; it fascinates me. I get the Acid Desk delivered
right to my mailbox. However, my personal enjoyment doesn't blind me
to the negative effects, such as frightening away shy fanfic
authors/readers, and turning off well-mannered fanfic authors/readers.
So it would be hypocritical (and, from a selfish point of view,
counterproductive) for me to ask people to desist from this kind of
activity; but I can ask that they not kid themselves about the
results. Snarky criticism, anonymous flaming, and the spreading of
rumours and gossip do not promote the goals of better manners, better
writing, or more community spirit. They work directly against those
goals, and it would be better not to pretend otherwise. (And if you'd
rather pursue the goal of keeping me amused, well, all I can say is...
CAN WE PLEASE GET A NEW FLAME WAR, PEOPLE? Even the most devoted
afficionado gets bored with reruns. Pick some new targets. Some new
issues. Please.)
L.O.
Nalaktok
>Dasha K.
Yup. Just read one I picked randomly off of Gossamer (germany - the rest make
my Netscape '[crap] out on me'
Blackwood and Blackwood II
by Susan Garrity
Had a bit of an abrupt ending but it was still preety dern interesting. With
the sort-of-sex and all... but if that's not your kettle of fish, skip it.
- Felix
p.s.>he/she should be shunned like an Amish with a cell phone.
Ms. K, this had me laughing very hard.
Nalaktok
- Felix
CiCi Lean2
>Hello? Has anyone read this tripe by our supposed leader of the
>anti-plagiarism posse?
To debate the content of a piece of plagiarized, altered and unauthorized
posted material is pointless, amoral and highly suspect.
Please give ME a break.
CiCi Lean
Brandon Ray
Woodinat wrote:
>
>
> The point isn't whether the Acid Desk is nice or not. Heck, the name is Acid
> Desk, not Gentle Spring Water Desk. It's supposed to have potentially
> controversial opinions. That's what editorials do.
although usually it's desired that they be at least somewhat literate....
>
> The point is, someone faked CiCi's email addy, purposely took huge parts of her
> editorial, inserted a couple of nasty comments, and then posted it. Plagiarism
> isn't just fiction. It can happen with editorials, journalism articles, etc.
but it didn't happen in this case. the Flacid Desk (whether you think it was well
done or not) was not plagiarism..it's what is called in the trade "fair comment".
If you post something in public I have a legal and ethical right to comment on
what you've posted, including the right to quote from your article as I attempt to
rebut you.
Deal with it.
>
> Now, even if you don't like CiCi, this is something for the community to worry
> about. With all the anonymous email programs out there, someone could fake any
> person's addy, and post anything. Heck, it's already happened. In the case of
> the fake Acid Desk, this was not only identity stealing, but plagiarism as
> well.
I really, really wonder about the stability of someone who is so ....
attached...to her email address name that she flies off the handle when someone
spoofs that handle. Speaking just for myself, my email handle does not define my
life....
--
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over,
pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." -- Matt Groening, "Love
is Hell"
=======================
My fanfic wants to love you, but you have to make the first move:
http:www.avalon.net/~publius/MyStories.html
Brandon Ray
CiCi Lean2 wrote:
> Hindy Bradley sez:
>
> >Hello? Has anyone read this tripe by our supposed leader of the
> >anti-plagiarism posse?
>
> To debate the content of a piece of plagiarized, altered and unauthorized
> posted material is pointless, amoral and highly suspect.
Fortuntaely, that's not what Hindy was doing, since the material in question
was not plagiarized. If you post something in public, other people have a
right to dispute your opinions -- and that includes the right to quote from
the original. And considering the, uh, tone of the original, the fact that
the parody was a little rough on you (to say the least) was only to be
expected.
If you can't stand the heat, and all that....
stillwater16
<snip>
>
>I just don't understand all the childish games that are going on. I've wanted
>to refrain from comment, really I have, but I fail to understand the finger
>pointing and anger over things that are far, far in the past. Okay, you're
>peeved about ATXCM? In a snit about the long-dead DM list? Get over it! Go
>for a walk, have a margarita, watch a movie, write some fic. Post some
>recommendations of stories you really dig. But please, everyone, find
>something better to do than snipe at each other and post pissy little parodies
>of each other. If you've got real issues, take it to email.
>
>And BTW, just to give my unsolicited opinion, if you're not happy w/the Acid
>Desk, start your own bi-weekly newsletter. It takes guts and courage for CiCi
>to put out her opinions as frankly as she does. I have to ask the person who
>posted the Flaccid Desk, do you have that kind of courage? Or do you prefer to
>hide in the shadows, performing your juvenile little tricks? I'll say this for
>CiCi- you can call her a bitch, you can call her abrasive (and she'd agree with
>all that) but she's always open and up-front and doesn't sneak around. Can you
>say that for yourself?
>
>Okay, I am DONE with this topic.
>
>
>Dasha K.
>
>Admitting your fanfic problem is the first step...
>
>Shameless plug- come see Dasha K's Fanfic-O-Rama
>
>http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Studio/7367
ditto, ditto, mondo ditto.
stillwater16, weary of all this
Julie Cantrell
>Loligo writes:
>
>[snip]
>>CAN WE PLEASE GET A NEW FLAME WAR, PEOPLE?
>
>Whoo-hoo! Nominations for new 'Flame Wars'?
Hey! Maybe we could have Flame War Awards! I can see the categories now:
Most Creative Come Back
Most Annoying Troll
Longest Thread
Most Likely To Be Plagiarized
Most Likely To End Up Swearing While Responding To A Post
Most Likely To Continue Arguing After 99.9% Of Those Posting Have
Discontinued
Most Likely To Mention Debbilmice (although, personally, I still have no
idea what the
heck a *Debbilmouse* is and, quite frankly, I don't think that I want to)
Most Likely To End Up In a Mental Institution
I'm sure everyone else could come up with about a million more creative
categories than these...
You have *no* idea how much this cracks me up! ;-)
Julie :-)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/3881/
XF Views and Phenomena
BethLynn
[snip]
>CAN WE PLEASE GET A NEW FLAME WAR, PEOPLE?
[snip]
Whoo-hoo! Nominations for new 'Flame Wars'?
BethLynn
FEB
Dasha K
>Fortuntaely, that's not what Hindy was doing, since the material in question
>was not plagiarized. If you post something in public, other people have a
>right to dispute your opinions -- and that includes the right to quote from
>the original. And considering the, uh, tone of the original, the fact that
>the parody was a little rough on you (to say the least) was only to be
>expected.
>
>If you can't stand the heat, and all that....
You are possibly right, but you know and I know that it's in poor taste to post
the Acid Desk onto ATXC without the author's permission, and in poor taste to
make no note that this was an edited, parody version of it. It was just more
childishness in a world that I thought was populated by adults.
KGlover602
>Me, me! I have a suggestion! Should the toilet paper roll over the top or
>from the bottom.
>
>I curse the bottom rollers!!!!!! :P A blight on your toilet!
>
:::smacks la:::
Serious up! Choosing a a new topic for flame wars will have long-lasting
repercussions on this ng.
Spiderman and Jesus Christ--Theological Similarities and Differences
Go!
Katrina
Woodinat
>Date: 3/9/1999 9:13 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <19990309211319...@ng96.aol.com>
>
Elise wrote:
>>-cept that sandal thing
>>JC had going.
>
>Yeah--you think it was comfy walking in the desert in sandals? Sheesh.
At least He didn't wear socks with those sandals. Now that's tacky.
Woodinat
>Date: 3/9/1999 9:13 PM Eastern Standard Time
la wrote:
><<<GAWD! Can't we even stay in season? Peeps: harmless fluff or the evil
>under
>belly of the universe?
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Elise ~ Miss...@aol.com>>>
>
>
>Oh, good Gawd! Stale or fresh--yellow or those awful designer colours?
>Strictly chicks or bunnies, too? Those are the questions you should be
>asking
>you silly wench! :P
>
>la
Oh, I can resolve that quickly.
Stale
Yellow
Chicks.
The Small Woodinat Creature has spoken. Go forth and munch stale yellow chick
Peeps.
JourneyToX
Jesus is just all right with me. Whoa yeah.
Paper over the top of the roll, thank you *very* much.
OK, and how about this. Not only should the seat be down, but the lid needs to
be closed too.
Everybody has to raise and lower something then.
Plus, if the fox terrier decides to chase the siamese kitten all over the
house, including into the bathroom, and the kitty makes a desperate leap past
the toilet for the relative safety of the sink, and misses, the siamese kitten
doesn't wind up *in* the toilet.
There are few things more pathetic.
*~*~*~*~*~*
Journ...@aol.com
My URL? You're so kind to ask: http://members.aol.com/altoidgal/JTX/xfiles.html
"God Bless America! Now get your asses out of here!" 1939!Skinner, Triangle
"Oh yeahhhh!" Mitch Pileggi, Season 3 Gag Reels. :-)
JourneyToX
>I have you know, toilet paper plays an important role in my home! :P
Ha! I'm not fooled. I know you wait eagerly for the Sears-Roebuck catalog!
GeoRed
(Dasha K) writes:
>>Instead, they hid like cowards that they are. Look kids, do you want to
>>share your thoughts? Have something you want to get off your chest? Then be
>>an adult and state it in your own words. If you can't do that, at least have
>>the courtesy to take your medication before logging on.
>>
>>End of rant...
>>
>>
>>Kimberly
>
>That was very well said and I just want to add a big-ass ditto.
>
>Medication for all the leetle plotters and schemers!
I ditto as well. Once upon a time, a long time ago, someone stole my name and
tried to be me....right down to my sig. That was not parody, that was not
satire, that was just plain sick and disgusting. It makes me wonder about the
stability of the person who does it and if their next step in the ladder of
obsession is stalking. Thankfully, the person who tried to imitate me was
immediately busted......thanks to some very sharp denizens of ATXF. This is
about more than just stealing, IMO. This is about someone who is *ill*.
Finally, what really worries me is when I see some normally very sharp people
on this newsgroup writing posts that appear to side with the person who
steals........simply because they don't *like* the person who was stolen from.
People, please step back and realize that regardless of the personality of the
person who was stolen from, it is *wrong*...and highly disturbing.
Heidi
::::::::with head in hands, rocking slowly::::::::::
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter."
<Mulder: He's not just lean.......he's cuisine.>
JourneyToX
>>Loved dem boots of Spidey's.
>
>Bah--they were nothing compared to Wonder Woman's.
>
I have Doc Marten's. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Woodinat
>Date: 3/9/1999 8:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <19990309205704...@ng96.aol.com>
Elise:
>GAWD! Can't we even stay in season? Peeps: harmless fluff or the evil
>under
>belly of the universe?
>
Peeps: Evil, but fun.
Now, another topic, for the Krycek/Nick Lea fans:
What does NL look like shirtless? Hairy or smooth? Freckled, tan, or pale?
Two or more nipples?
Teddi Litman
Brandon Ray <pub...@avalon.net> wrote:
>
>but it didn't happen in this case. the Flacid Desk (whether you think it
was well
>done or not) was not plagiarism..it's what is called in the trade "fair
comment".
>If you post something in public I have a legal and ethical right to comment
on
>what you've posted, including the right to quote from your article as I
attempt to
>rebut you.
>
No, it is not in any way "fair comment." This person didn't parody The
Acid Desk editorial. It did not even quote the Acid Desk inserting
commentary which is what those oft mentioned Debbilmice MSTs did. The
commentary in the MSTs may have been nasty and uncalled for; but it was not
plagiarism. It was quite clear what was the original material of the stories
and what was the commentary. The person/s making the commentary neither
claimed to have written the stories nor pretended to be the authors. The
Flacid Desk was a large portion of the original Acid Desk with some added
commentary; but it was not in any way made clear which was the original and
what was the addition. Most importantly though, and the ultimate reason The
Flacid Desk doesn't have a leg to stand on as parody, the poster CLAIMED TO
BE CICI LEAN! This time it wasn't ChiChi Wyde or DeeDee Beam or whatever but
CiCi Lean.
Think of it this way, Brandon. It's the equivalent situation to me
posting "Jump" (I chose that as an example as it's one of my favorites of
yours. :)) in basically it's entirety minus a paragraph I didn't like and
changing the ending under the addy pub...@yahoo.com claiming to be Brandon
Ray. If I did that, would you feel it was in any way "fair comment" on your
story?
Teddi
JourneyToX
>but it didn't happen in this case. the Flacid Desk (whether you think it was
>well
>done or not) was not plagiarism..it's what is called in the trade "fair
>comment".
>If you post something in public I have a legal and ethical right to comment
>on
>what you've posted, including the right to quote from your article as I
>attempt to
>rebut you.
Brandon, I hope your 'trade' isn't intellectual property law.
To wholesale lift, with few alterations, someone's work, with a
misleading/confusing sponsorship or authorship, is not the same as fair
comment. It's outright theft and actionable.
E.g., "The Joy of Trek" wholesale lifted lines of Trek and appropriate the
creation "Star Trek" without remuneration, acknowledgement or permission, from
Paramount Studios. The author of this book and its publisher were sued for
$220 million. I do not know the status of that suit.
Contrast, "The Nitpicker's Guides" by Phil Farrand to several shows - Star
Trek, TNG and The X-Files. What he does is commentary on it - critique, jokes,
humor, information that draws from the show as a whole. Something on the order
of what your local TV/newspaper film/tv critic does is fair comment.
Arguably, it was satire, but satire is usually a bit more than a xerox with a
few words changed. I think the satire argument is considerably diluted by the
name appropriation/confusion and the lack of any disclaimer that it was satire.
Nor was any real comment at dialogue or rebuttal present.
It was lame shameful satire, at best, it was theft, most likely, but it gave
the writer a dry, dusty little orgasm to think she had 'gotten' CiCi.
KGlover602
>house
Certainly, it's the ol' dyslexia kicking in, but I had this vivid mental image
of *two* kittens joined at the...golly...just forget it...
elliptically yours...
Katrina
KGlover602
>he probably didn't suffer from fallen arches
Even arches that have fallen can be redeemed by Him.
Katrina
Peeps suck wind--Cadbury Egg me, baby
JourneyToX
>
>What does NL look like shirtless? Hairy or smooth? Freckled, tan, or pale?
Not a lot of hair and pale, I'm sure.
>Two or more nipples?
>
That's where you lost me, Natty.
<Thanking God we know just how many MP has and that they're perfect in every
way>
CiCi Lean2
Peeps: Gross, tasteless, nasty, harmful and I buy two boxes of them every
year.
Chicks. Blue chicks. Or purple bunnies.
They must be have hypno-rays in their beady little eyes to make me buy them and
then throw them away every year.
>
>Now, another topic, for the Krycek/Nick Lea fans:
>
>What does NL look like shirtless?
Like a stadium fulla sunshine after an eclipse.
(Hmmm... is that hyperbole? Or a bad metaphor?)
> Hairy or smooth?
I vote smooth Alex, for 300.
> Freckled, tan, or pale?
Light tan? With sprinkling of blue bunny sugar?
>Two or more nipples?
*winkyface* You know, I always had this vision of two regulation ones.
So don't ruin it, Beavis.
CiCi Lean
(off to get her bedtime Peep...)
KGlover602
>me
>want to throw some folding chair out there and charge for the live
>crucifixion
Bill Hicks, maybe, said that Christians who wore crucifixes around their necks
were really misguided. Do you really think that's the first thing He wants to
see when he comes back?
Katrina
#8037 in the PUNK Army. We're like the KISS Army, but with our makeup more
tastefully done
KGlover602
>The only good egg Cadbury makes is their Mini Eggs.
>
Martha Stewart time, chickies! <--note seasonal pun
What to do with those clever little egg carton-type trays once you've snarfed
down a dozen of these little buggers with your morning coffee?
Katrina
Teddi Litman
laliz...@aol.com (LaLizWoman) wrote:
>
>
>Oh, good Gawd! Stale or fresh--yellow or those awful designer colours?
>Strictly chicks or bunnies, too? Those are the questions you should be
asking
>you silly wench! :P
>
These threads always make me buy these icky little chicks. They never quite
live up to the buildup. The mention of nuking peeps somewhere was what
inspired the purchase of this latest batch. Another disappointment;
microwaving peeps only results in a yellow puddle of marshmallow sauce.
However, I have discovered the *right* way to eat peeps. Turn away from the
microwave and pop them in the toaster oven. Cook em until the tops of their
little yellow heads turn almost black. Hot and crunchy ... YUMM!
Next experiment: Peep Smores!
Teddi
Teddi Litman
cici...@aol.com (CiCi Lean2) wrote:
>>Peeps: Evil, but fun.
>
>Peeps: Gross, tasteless, nasty, harmful and I buy two boxes of them every
>year.
>
>Chicks. Blue chicks. Or purple bunnies.
>
>They must be have hypno-rays in their beady little eyes to make me buy them
and
>then throw them away every year.
>
I'm dead serious about this because I've found myself in the same position
many times. Next time before you resort to the trashcan, try the toaster
oven first! Who knows maybe toasting peeps will save some future planned
community from the marshmallow monster.
Teddi
CiCi Lean2
>It was lame shameful satire, at best, it was theft, most likely, but it gave
>the writer a dry, dusty little orgasm to think she had 'gotten' CiCi.
>
>
And, the poor little blue balled thing failed miserably I fear.
Because I stand by every word I write. But those words go where where I want
to post them, they stay where I want to keep them and my name is *mine.* (And
no, I'm not insane about the name, believe me if you think I was sober when I
thought up "CiCi Lean" you need a brain transplant. The name sucks, but it's
MINE.)
And what is MINE is MINE.
See, what happened here is that someone thought that everyone would be
*shocked* and *horrified* by the *hidden* Acid Desk and rip The Evil CiCi to
shreds for her *blasphamies* and *secret* opinions. (That's what makes the
folks who are so insistent on "discussing" and "debating" its pirated comments
so oddly suspect. I didn't post the AD here to be "discussed" - I posted it to
prove that I'd been ROBBED.)
Unfortunately for many of the poor darlings, the AD has a subscripton list base
of over 400 and a web site reading of, on aveage, 700 people making my
readership over 1,000 XF-fen. It's not exactly a big fanfic secret.
Not only that, but people have been listening to me rant and rave and be a loud
mouthed uber-opinionated bitch for close to four years now. They may not like
me, but most are quite used to me.
So NO one is "shocked" by the Acid Desk's contents, because ... SURPRISE... 90%
of the fandom has already either seen it and decided to ignore it or has
praised it. (I've gotten one *flame* in nine issues and that was from,
SURPRISE! our "tripe" person a million posts back.)
The thrill of its evil has worn off considerably I'm afraid, and me and my Evil
Newletter are almost "old hat" by now and I'll bet dollars to donuts I'm boring
these newfangled flame-hardy newbies to death. It breaks my heart to admit it,
but that's probably the truth.
But all that doesn't change the fact that everything written in the Acid Desk
and its distribution and contents are MINE.
That's right. M-I-N-E. Not ChiChi's, not cici...@vahoo.com's, not Brandon
Ray's but MINE.
You want to satirize the Acid Desk, be my guest (if it's funny and sharp and
painful enough, I'll even give you my subscribers for a day as I've already
offered to R. Scott Carr.) You want to write your own newsletter, go for it.
Good luck.
But leave my words, my name and me out of it.
And this is all she wrote.
The "Real" CiCi Lean
The Circle of CiCi
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/3293/index.html
Woodinat
>Date: 3/9/1999 9:23 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <19990309212336...@ng-fz1.aol.com>
la wrote:
>But I like the chipmunk approach to eating these.
>
>Stuff a dozen or so in your mouth until your cheeks poof out (not those,
>shaddup!).
>
>You can't do that when they are stale! The stomach pump doesn't work on the
>stale ones either. :\
>
>la
Infidel. The true way to eat Peeps is one at a time, slowly, so the other
Peeps know their fate. First you eat the beak part, so they can't scream for
help...then you slowly make your way up to the head, 'cuz the head's the best
part <'Nat notices ATXC denizens shying away from her> What, what?
WickdZoot
>
>Most Creative Come Back
>Most Annoying Troll
>Longest Thread
>Most Likely To Be Plagiarized
>Most Likely To End Up Swearing While Responding To A Post
>Most Likely To Continue Arguing After 99.9% Of Those Posting Have
>Discontinued
>Most Likely To Mention Debbilmice (although, personally, I still have no
>idea what the
>heck a *Debbilmouse* is and, quite frankly, I don't think that I want to)
>Most Likely To End Up In a Mental Institution
>
Shall we call them the Crankies?
zoot
...[It's] a simply Gothic little place consisting of three of borderline
personalities, a trailer park sophist, a dyslexic and two old dykes
struggling not to pop out of their bondage gear...
The Marquise De Lean
shannar...@pnx.com
say right now that though I don't agree with Cici's comments in her
last newsletter, she has every right to do the thing. Free speech and
all that.
But if the person had titled the piece the "Acid Desk," one might
really have thought it was Cici. But they didn't. They called it the
"Flacid Desk," which was a clear giveaway that it was satire.
Although, as I said, it was poor satire because they quoted most of
the whole bitter original piece. The fact that no one else took credit
for her work makes it NOT plagiarism. Plagiarism is when you take
someone's work and claim it as your own, like Naughty Nanny did. This
person didn't do that. What they should have done, I suppose, is put a
label on it as satire and some other name ;) Of course Cici doesn't
believe in labels (as is her right) so obviously she wouldn't have
wanted a label on this.;)
---------------------------------------------------
Shannara
List manager
XF Creative
Co-archivist Xemplary
http://www.pnx.com/shannara/xemplary
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To subscribe to the list, mail to xfcreativ...@pnx.com and type
JOIN in the BODY of the message.
Hindy Bradley
CiCi Lean2 wrote:
> So NO one is "shocked" by the Acid Desk's contents, because ... SURPRISE... 90%
> of the fandom has already either seen it and decided to ignore it or has
> praised it. (I've gotten one *flame* in nine issues and that was from,
> SURPRISE! our "tripe" person a million posts back.)
>
> The thrill of its evil has worn off considerably I'm afraid, and me and my Evil
> Newletter are almost "old hat" by now and I'll bet dollars to donuts I'm boring
> these newfangled flame-hardy newbies to death. It breaks my heart to admit it,
> but that's probably the truth.
Oh, but you underestimate yourself. I'm sure there are many more people
than the thousand you count who would like to read your newsletter.
Maybe even some, like myself who would like to comment on it in a public
forum. But there is no public forum for it, is there? Just your word
on how much feedback you get and in whose favour.
I challenge you to post you next issue to the ng and see what kind of
feedback it gets.
> But all that doesn't change the fact that everything written in the Acid Desk
> and its distribution and contents are MINE.
>
> That's right. M-I-N-E. Not ChiChi's, not cici...@vahoo.com's, not Brandon
> Ray's but MINE.
BTW, where were you when Marlene's name, iwonder, was used by Isabel,
iwonders?
Hindy
Teddi Litman
shannar...@pnx.com wrote:
>
>But if the person had titled the piece the "Acid Desk," one might
>really have thought it was Cici. But they didn't. They called it the
>"Flacid Desk," which was a clear giveaway that it was satire.
Only if you are familiar with "Acid Desk." Yes, maybe most of us are; but
believe it or not I'm sure there are some readers of this Ng that aren't.
One not aware that CiCi's newsletter is called "Acid Desk" would naturally
assume CiCi wrote "Flacid Desk" as the poster did in fact identify itself as
"CiCi Lean."
>Although, as I said, it was poor satire because they quoted most of
>the whole bitter original piece. The fact that no one else took credit
>for her work makes it NOT plagiarism. Plagiarism is when you take
>someone's work and claim it as your own, like Naughty Nanny did. This
>person didn't do that.
There you have a point. This person did the exact opposite. It assumed
CiCi's identity and posted abridged material CiCi wrote combined it with
material CiCi DID NOT WRITE in such a way that the two were
indistiguishable. So basically, it *falsely* attributed certain inflammatory
statements to CiCi Lean. It purposely and maliciously *lied* with the
intention of defaming CiCi.
I suppose we should be clear on the criminal offense. So it's not
plagiarism; it's libel!
Just to clarify: Stating that CiCi's commentary is snarky is an opinion;
and is not libel. Claiming CiCi admitted to stuffing the Whammy's ballot
box is a boldfaced LIE; it's libel and a crime!
Evidence:
CiCi's original comment:
>(Just to keep the record straight, I didn't vote in the nominations, I *did*get nominated in two
>categories, "Best Other" and "Best Humor" and I did votein the final round. Yes, and I voted for
>myself. I mean, duh. {grin})
Quote attributed to CiCi by the poster of "The Flacid Desk":
>(Just to keep the record straight, I didn't vote in the nominations, I *did* get nominated in two
>categories, "Best Other" and "Best Humor" and I did vote in the final round. Yes, and I voted for
>myself. Five times. I mean, duh, I do have AOL for a reason. {grin})
Ok, so now does anyone want to defend libel?
Teddi
shannar...@pnx.com
> Just to clarify: Stating that CiCi's commentary is snarky is an opinion;
>and is not libel. Claiming CiCi admitted to stuffing the Whammy's ballot
>box is a boldfaced LIE; it's libel and a crime!
>
original post and since it didn't get to the satire right away I
ditched it.
The ballot-stuffing thing was too heavy-handed but I think the point
was still satire, not intended for anyone to really think Cici posted
the thing. But your point is valid. It's within the realm of
possibility, though not very likely, that there is someone out there
who doesn't know Cici does this "newsletter."
Brandon Ray
Teddi Litman wrote:
> In article <36e5dee8...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> shannar...@pnx.com wrote:
>
> >
> >But if the person had titled the piece the "Acid Desk," one might
> >really have thought it was Cici. But they didn't. They called it the
> >"Flacid Desk," which was a clear giveaway that it was satire.
>
> Only if you are familiar with "Acid Desk." Yes, maybe most of us are; but
> believe it or not I'm sure there are some readers of this Ng that aren't.
> One not aware that CiCi's newsletter is called "Acid Desk" would naturally
> assume CiCi wrote "Flacid Desk" as the poster did in fact identify itself as
> "CiCi Lean."
So it's your position that unless 100% of the population is aware of the original material, people
should not be permitted to satirize? Wouldn't that kinda prohibit ALL satire?
>
>
> I suppose we should be clear on the criminal offense. So it's not
> plagiarism; it's libel!
NOT! It's satire...and it musta struck a never, or there wouldn't be so much kvetching and moaning
going on...
>
>
> Just to clarify: Stating that CiCi's commentary is snarky is an opinion;
> and is not libel. Claiming CiCi admitted to stuffing the Whammy's ballot
> box is a boldfaced LIE; it's libel and a crime!
>
> Evidence:
>
> CiCi's original comment:
>
> >(Just to keep the record straight, I didn't vote in the nominations, I *did*get nominated in two
> >categories, "Best Other" and "Best Humor" and I did votein the final round. Yes, and I voted for
> >myself. I mean, duh. {grin})
>
> Quote attributed to CiCi by the poster of "The Flacid Desk":
>
> >(Just to keep the record straight, I didn't vote in the nominations, I *did* get nominated in two
> >categories, "Best Other" and "Best Humor" and I did vote in the final round. Yes, and I voted for
> >myself. Five times. I mean, duh, I do have AOL for a reason. {grin})
>
> Ok, so now does anyone want to defend libel?
*raises hand*
I have taken coursework in mass media law. That is not libel, in my non-lawyerly opinion. Before
something can be found to be libelous, there has to be a finding that someone might actually believe
it. To see something like that embedded in a work that is CLEARLY satire doesn't cut it.
This is the defense that allowed Larry Flynt to get away with characterizing Jerry Falwell as having
had an incestuous affair with his mother -- the court found that no one was likely to believe the
charge.
--
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you
underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." -- Matt Groening, "Love is Hell"
=======================
My fanfic wants to love you, but you have to make the first move:
http:www.avalon.net/~publius/MyStories.html
Maureen O'Brien
>Halrloprillalar <pril...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <19990309171103...@ng-cg1.aol.com>,
>> das...@aol.com (Dasha K) wrote:
>>> If that person is found, he/she should be shunned like an Amish with
>>>a cell phone. End of story.
I agree. Look, I don't care if somebody's my worst enemy, this isn't
treatment they deserve. And two wrongs don't make a right, either.
If somebody wanted to MSTie the Acid Desk, or write a parody of the
Acid Desk, or what-have-you, that would be different. But adding
material which purported to admit guilt, inflame hatred, etc, without
distinguishing it clearly from the text, is not satire or parody -- and
forging a sender line just makes it worse.
<sigh> I guess I'm glad not to be in any of these chats or mailing lists
or message boards. I only know you people from your stories and your
comments on this NG. And right now, I'm not sure I want to hang around
you, 'cause a lot of the people I most respect are not putting their
best faces forward (to say the least) in this discussion.
Back to JAG fanfic land, I guess, where the biggest controversy is the
rest of us trying to persuade someone that they can put in all the
nitty-gritty birth details in a story without grossing us out, and the
biggest news today was a birthday among us.
But I guess you folks don't much care about birthdays. Or fic.
>>This has nothing to do with the thread at all, but I just wanted to
>>note that there's a really cool article in the Jan 99 ish of Wired
>>about Amish people using cell phones and not being shunned. :)
> Who do they call?
>
> <Or, should that be: 'Whom' do they call?>
Who ya gonna call? Hexbusters!
Maureen
Maureen O'Brien
Maureen
jerry
Brandon Ray wrote in message:
>So it's your position that unless 100% of the population is aware of the
original material, people should not be permitted to satirize? Wouldn't
that kinda prohibit ALL satire?
>NOT! It's satire...and it musta struck a never, or there wouldn't be so
much kvetching and moaning
>going on...
>I have taken coursework in mass media law. That is not libel, in my
non-lawyerly opinion. Before
>something can be found to be libelous, there has to be a finding that
someone might actually believe
>it. To see something like that embedded in a work that is CLEARLY satire
doesn't cut it.
Brandon, I just want to be clear on this. If I (1) post a story to this
newsgroup, (2) make sure that the name of the poster reads "Brandon Ray,"
(3) list my feedback address as pub...@ayalon.net , (4) label it as being
an entry in the "Silver Bracelet" Series called "Epilator," (5) use 95% of
your original "Epiphany," but (6) make a few changes, such as inserting the
implication of an incestuous relationship between Dana and Charlie, and
having Charlie and Mulder kiss and grope a little during their time in the
kitchen ...
...this is okay? I'm not asking if you think it's technically "libel" or
"plagiarism:" I'm asking if this would be "wrong." By your definition, it
would "CLEARLY" be satire.
Although the comments quoted above seem to indicate that you would not be
bothered by this "satire," I can imagine that you might respond by posting
your original story, simply stating that the previous post was *not* from
you. This is all that CiCi did.
A flurry of posts might follow, with some folks up in arms about your
beautiful story being defiled, and a different group of folks saying that it
was about time someone poured salt on the sugary sweetness of the "Bracelet"
series. The discussion might get mired in the muck of legal definitions of
libel and plagiarism.
I would hope, however, that someone who is a regular, active participant on
this newsgroup (like you) would avoid this and just call the original post
WRONG.
Because no matter what terms folks are using in labeling the wrong done to
CiCi, the fact remains that what the phantom poster did was Wrong (as in Big
Ball of ...)
Just as it would be wrong for me to do to you what I described above. I
don't need a lawyer, a law degree, or coursework in mass media law to tell
me that. I just need a sense of decency.
I think you have one. C'mon, Brandon, don't disappoint me. Call a wrong a
wrong. It isn't complicated. Haven't I made any sense?
jerry
bleepi...@ihateclowns.com
cici...@aol.com (CiCi Lean2) wrote:
> BleepingAlien wrote:
>
> <snip restored> If the point of this was to pique curiousity, it worked. I
read the Acid Desk for the first time, and I guess I see why CiCi never posts
it in public. I wouldn't want public scrutiny of it, either. I could read
between the lines just fine without the Flacid Desk "translation."
> I didn't post this to pique or debate anything. I posted it solely as proof
> that my orginal text was stolen, altered and posted without my permission
along with my identity, which was stolen and used to post these plagiarized
and
> altered works.
I think I was misunderstood because I posted to the wrong thread. I saw the
Flacid Desk but didn't read it. I saw this post alerting to plagiarism and
DID read it (and thus my first reading of an Acid Desk). What I meant was
that if the Flacid Desk was intended to cause just that sequence of events,
it was successful. You seem to think I condone it, but I don't. But not for
the same reasons you don't condone it. But once you DO post your work in
public, I don't think you get to dictate who gets to say what about it. Your
purpose in posting it is irrelevant.
> If you wish to debate content here, you are missing the point completely (and
> dare I say it, most likely have an agenda all your own.)
Again, I'm not surprised you are pedaling so fast to try to keep the subject
off of the Acid Desk's content. I didn't find it particularly "acid" at all.
Boring, wordy, self-aggrandizing, gleeful about the woes of others ... but
not the biting wit implied by "acid." Maybe you were just having a bad day
and I should read the previous issues, though.
Bleeping Alien
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
CiCi Lean2
>I challenge you to post you next issue to the ng and see what kind of
>feedback it gets.
Yeah, I would, but I fear that the Operamail, vahoo, Hotmail, IHateClowns and
all the other free (and let's not forget untracable!) addy providers wouldn't
appreciate my [*cough*] "multitude" of anonymous flamers crashing their
servers for the day. (I don't think that most of our disinterested newsgroup
readers would appreciate that much either.)
Sorry. You want yer Acid, join the list or go to the page.
You want to comment? Start your own newsletter. You can called it... "The
Anti- Desk" or my personal favorite "The Rancid Desk" and, as a famous writer
once said,
"Madam, publish and be damned."
CiCi Lean
(who is now *officially* through with this thread...)
Caz Q
><<<Plus, if the fox terrier decides to chase the siamese kitten all over
the
>house
>
>Certainly, it's the ol' dyslexia kicking in, but I had this vivid mental
image
>of *two* kittens joined at the...golly...just forget it...
Eeeehw, Katrina! *That* image is gonna stick in my head all evening <g>.
CazQ
"What a glorious day...the sun is shining, birds are singing, bees are
trying to have sex with them...as is my understanding."
Bart Simpson
Caz Q
><<<GAWD! can't we even stay in season? Peeps: harmless fluff or the evil
under belly >of the universe?
<sticking head up over battlements now that the long dark night of the
flames is over>
Kay, I wasn't gonna ask and show my ignorance, but hey, I figure it's a
cultural issue. What in God's name is a Peep? So far all I have to go on is:
marshmallow/Easter/vile colours/evil beady little eyes (say
*what*?)/sadistic things to do to them/kinky uses of...
Post and put me out of my misery.
dawnl...@my-dejanews.com
> under
> belly of the universe?
>
> Elise ~ Miss...@aol.com>>>
>
> Oh, good Gawd! Stale or fresh--yellow or those awful designer colours?
> Strictly chicks or bunnies, too? Those are the questions you should be asking
> you silly wench! :P
>
> la
Only stale yellow chicks- I buy the fresh yellow bunnies so the kids will
know which Peeps are whose. I can't believe y'all have got me eating Peeps
before Easter! First time for everything, I guess. The things I've had to do
to rush the staleness this year... I ate a fresh one the other day; give me
stale ones any day; if you don't like Peeps, try one stale or microwaved,
toasted, in hot cocoa, or in a Peep/Thin Mint S'more (or in a NC-17 X-files
Peepfic!, hint hint) Dawn ______________________________________________ 155
Words - Home of the Shortest MSR Series
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4580/ The Peeps Are Out There -
Peeps/X-Files Fic http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4580/peeps.htm
Nalaktok
>
>Woodinat
Oh, my.... that scared me.
- Felix
"I think I'll [proclaim] my apartment an independant country and declare war on
the people above me for voilating my airspace"
Dasha K
>>Two or more nipples?
>>
>>Woodinat
As long as there are no nipples on biceps, I'm easy...<eg>
Dasha K.
Admitting your fanfic problem is the first step...
Shameless plug- come see Dasha K's Fanfic-O-Rama
KGlover602
>Well there's my problem. I always eat them ass first. Sigh.
>
Two thoughts crashed through my mind *at the same time* <--new record!
1. Sounds like a smutty fanfic challenge <eg>
2. That whole siamese kitten thing
With apologies,
Katrina
GeoRed
>Date: Tue, Mar 9, 1999 21:06 EST
>Message-id: <36f3d3a3...@news.erols.com>
>
>On Tue, 09 Mar 1999 23:49:36 GMT, Halrloprillalar
><pril...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <19990309171103...@ng-cg1.aol.com>,
>> das...@aol.com (Dasha K) wrote:
>>> If that person is
>>> found, he/she should be shunned like an Amish with a cell phone. End of
>story.
>>
>>that there's a really cool article in the Jan 99 ish of Wired about
>>Amish people using cell phones and not being shunned. :)
>
>Who do they call?
>
><Or, should that be: 'Whom' do they call?>
Ghostbusters!
Sharon Fetter
This is officially the 4th thread I'm putting on ignore TODAY....this is getting old.
-Leilia
Teddi Litman wrote:
> In article <36e5dee8...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> shannar...@pnx.com wrote:
>
> >
> >But if the person had titled the piece the "Acid Desk," one might
> >really have thought it was Cici. But they didn't. They called it the
> >"Flacid Desk," which was a clear giveaway that it was satire.
>
> Only if you are familiar with "Acid Desk." Yes, maybe most of us are; but
> believe it or not I'm sure there are some readers of this Ng that aren't.
> One not aware that CiCi's newsletter is called "Acid Desk" would naturally
> assume CiCi wrote "Flacid Desk" as the poster did in fact identify itself as
> "CiCi Lean."
>
> >Although, as I said, it was poor satire because they quoted most of
> >the whole bitter original piece. The fact that no one else took credit
> >for her work makes it NOT plagiarism. Plagiarism is when you take
> >someone's work and claim it as your own, like Naughty Nanny did. This
> >person didn't do that.
>
> There you have a point. This person did the exact opposite. It assumed
> CiCi's identity and posted abridged material CiCi wrote combined it with
> material CiCi DID NOT WRITE in such a way that the two were
> indistiguishable. So basically, it *falsely* attributed certain inflammatory
> statements to CiCi Lean. It purposely and maliciously *lied* with the
> intention of defaming CiCi.
>
> I suppose we should be clear on the criminal offense. So it's not
> plagiarism; it's libel!
>
> Just to clarify: Stating that CiCi's commentary is snarky is an opinion;
> and is not libel. Claiming CiCi admitted to stuffing the Whammy's ballot
> box is a boldfaced LIE; it's libel and a crime!
>
> Evidence:
>
> CiCi's original comment:
>
> >(Just to keep the record straight, I didn't vote in the nominations, I *did*get nominated in two
> >categories, "Best Other" and "Best Humor" and I did votein the final round. Yes, and I voted for
> >myself. I mean, duh. {grin})
>
> Quote attributed to CiCi by the poster of "The Flacid Desk":
>
> >(Just to keep the record straight, I didn't vote in the nominations, I *did* get nominated in two
> >categories, "Best Other" and "Best Humor" and I did vote in the final round. Yes, and I voted for
> >myself. Five times. I mean, duh, I do have AOL for a reason. {grin})
>
> Ok, so now does anyone want to defend libel?
>
> Teddi
GeoRed
>Date: Tue, Mar 9, 1999 20:31 EST
>Message-id: <19990309203142...@ng-fx1.aol.com>
>
>la says:
>
>>Me, me! I have a suggestion! Should the toilet paper roll over the top or
>>from the bottom.
>>
>>I curse the bottom rollers!!!!!! :P A blight on your toilet!
>>
>
>:::smacks la:::
>
>Serious up! Choosing a a new topic for flame wars will have long-lasting
>repercussions on this ng.
>
>Spiderman and Jesus Christ--Theological Similarities and Differences
How about....AMERICAN BEER SUCKS! (unless it is from a micro-brew)
Down with Budwiser! <g>
Teddi Litman
Brandon Ray <pub...@avalon.net> wrote:
>
>
>Teddi Litman wrote:
>
>> In article <36e5dee8...@enews.newsguy.com>,
>> shannar...@pnx.com wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >But if the person had titled the piece the "Acid Desk," one might
>> >really have thought it was Cici. But they didn't. They called it the
>> >"Flacid Desk," which was a clear giveaway that it was satire.
>>
>> Only if you are familiar with "Acid Desk." Yes, maybe most of us are; but
>> believe it or not I'm sure there are some readers of this Ng that aren't.
>> One not aware that CiCi's newsletter is called "Acid Desk" would
naturally
>> assume CiCi wrote "Flacid Desk" as the poster did in fact identify itself
as
>> "CiCi Lean."
>
>So it's your position that unless 100% of the population is aware of the
original material, people
>should not be permitted to satirize? Wouldn't that kinda prohibit ALL
satire?
No, you are totally missing the point. Shannara pointed out that *everyone*
should know it wasn't CiCi who made the post even though the poster
indentified itself as "Cici Lean" simply because the post was entitled "The
Flacid Desk." That only holds true if one is aware of "The Acid Desk."
Satirists do NOT pose as the original writer they are satirize. They do not
meld their commentary/satire with the original work in such a way that the
reader would be confused as to what the original and what is the "satire>"
i.e Sneaking in the words "five times" and a comment on AOL into an
otherwise verbatim quote from someone is not commentary. It is not satire.
It is deliberately misquoting. In this case it is libelous deliberate
misquoting!
>
>>
>>
>> I suppose we should be clear on the criminal offense. So it's not
>> plagiarism; it's libel!
>
>NOT! It's satire...and it musta struck a never, or there wouldn't be so
much kvetching and moaning
>going on...
>
Sure it struck a nerve! Making it appear as if someone wrote something they
didn't ... particularly if that includes gleefully admitting cheating ... is
NOT A GOOD THING! How would you like it if someone signed your name to a
post stating "Hey I used my AOL account to stuff the Spookys ballot box!!!"
I know I would be livid if it happened to me. I get frustrated even when
someone paraphrases me in a twisted way. Purposely and maliciously twisting
*direct quotes* and signing *my name* to them would certainly get me beyond
upset!
>>
>>
>> Ok, so now does anyone want to defend libel?
>
>*raises hand*
>
>I have taken coursework in mass media law. That is not libel, in my non
lawyerly opinion. Before
>something can be found to be libelous, there has to be a finding that
someone might actually believe
>it. To see something like that embedded in a work that is CLEARLY satire
doesn't cut it.
See above... Ok I'll reiterate. It is not CLEARLY satire as the person
identified itself as *CICI LEAN* AND it quoted most of the original Acid
Desk verbatim with only a few subtle but extremely malicious and damning
changes. "Five times" is not "CLEARLY satire." It's a dirty and nasty
trick.
Teddi
Teddi Litman
laliz...@aol.com (LaLizWoman) wrote:
>
>Plagiarist, as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary:
>
>To use or pass off as one's own (the ideas or writings of another).
>
>This person took something written by another, changed only a few items in
it,
>then slapped their name on it.
>
No, actually it slapped CiCi's name on it which in this case is even worse!
So it is misquoting ... deliberate and *malicious* misquoting. The intention
was to make it appear as if CiCi wrote something that she didn't and that
something was quite damning. I still argue it's libel.
However, ultimately I agree with the assertion that even if we can't come to
agreement on the exact definition of the wrong committed, it is most
important to recognize that it was WRONG ("as in big ball of" as someone
else here said :) ).
Teddi
Kipler
OK, OK, already. It's a dirty and nasty trick - and you're giving the
offensive post about 100 readers every time you comment on it.
I myself don't find gossip columns particularly kind, gentle or enlightening,
either. So when they appear, I ignore them. <shrug>
--Kipler
jordan
maybe I'll just check out the newsgroup cause I've got some stories I want to post
soon, and I've been gone long enough, surely things have calmed down by now, and
the first big ole thread on my server was the flaccid desk, and...and...
gulp.
back to bed: That nightmare's lookin' pretty good right about now.
btw, although as nascent loves to tell me, "oh, you are SO five minutes ago," red
valerian wrote me and said I'd won that Spooky for A Cold Angel Eye, and I'd like
to thank everyone who voted for me because that was really wonderful of you. I
thought I was "above" all that competition stuff, but when red told me I was
thrilled.
I guess you never do outgrow your own ego.
speaking of which, or whom, or nascent,
nascent sneaked a site exclusive on my homepage at
http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/1063
we're all a bit scared and shy these days but hell, she might have told ME about
it...I had to discover it by accident while reloading my titles.
if you're a fan, check it out. otherwise, go read the flaccid desk some more. I
really MUST be five minutes ago, because I'm not outraged, I'm not upset, I'm not
even amused that someone apparently tried to tweak CiCi's nose.
I just don't get it.
jordan
gwe...@my-dejanews.com
jordan <jor...@jetson.uh.edu> wrote:
> So I wake up from a really bad nightmare at four in the morning and think,
gee,
> maybe I'll just check out the newsgroup cause I've got some stories I want to
post
> soon, and I've been gone long enough, surely things have calmed down by now,
and
> the first big ole thread on my server was the flaccid desk, and...and...
>
> gulp.
Wait...you've got stories to post? Woo-hoo! Finally, a reason to respond to
something under this heinous topic. Jordan's got something coming...
> speaking of which, or whom, or nascent,
>
> nascent sneaked a site exclusive on my homepage at
> http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/1063
>
> we're all a bit scared and shy these days but hell, she might have told ME
about
> it...I had to discover it by accident while reloading my titles.
>
> if you're a fan, check it out. otherwise, go read the flaccid desk some
more. I
> really MUST be five minutes ago, because I'm not outraged, I'm not upset, I'm
not
> even amused that someone apparently tried to tweak CiCi's nose.
>
> I just don't get it.
Wait, Nascent's got something new too? Why the hell am I hanging around this
ridiculous ever-growing thread, again? I've officially got other things to do
:-)
Gwen, SO five minutes from now <g>
Gwendolyn
http://alanna.net/gwen/
GeoRed
>it in public. I wouldn't want public scrutiny of it, either. I could read
>between the lines just fine without the Flacid Desk "translation."
<Heidi raises hand>
I have a stupid question......
She does post it to her web page, right? Is that *not* public? Or is it only
"not in public" for people too lazy to go to her web page? Seriously. I have
seen all this stuff about not posting it in public.....but I thought CiCi said
she put it up on her page. Am I imagining things or are people twisting the
facts to fit their argument. :::::::gasp:::::: <g>
carla mantel
: But if the person had titled the piece the "Acid Desk," one might
: really have thought it was Cici. But they didn't. They called it the
: "Flacid Desk," which was a clear giveaway that it was satire.
Carla sheepishly sticks her head into the whole big mess and admits:
I didn't know it was satire. Though I love CiCi's stories, I've never
been enticed to read "The Acid Desk" (nothing personal, CiCi, if you're
even reading this far, it's just not my flavor). The slightly altered
title grabbed my attention, however, and I was inclined to read it. If
CiCi had not posted her followup, I would not have known that she hadn't
posted it. This makes me feel very uncomfortable, and very manipulated:
the poster used a slight variation and a trusted name to grab my
attention and further her agenda, which seemed to be tarnishing
CiCi's name. And it almost worked: throughout reading the post, I was
dismayed because I had always felt that CiCi's outspokenness was
refreshing without being attaking; now here I was, reading something that
seemed more offensive than honest. I was greatly relieved to find that
the first response was an announcement that the post was a fake.
I don't tend to think anyone could be that malicious on purpose: I would
like to think that our satirist thought she was being clear in her intent.
So please, anyone who finds it necessary to satirize in this way: disclaim
your efforts. It is better to state the seemingly obvious than to assume
universal familiarity.
That's all. Sorry for the long post. Does this qualify me for the "Can't
we all just get along" catergory in the Flame Wars awards?
Carla
******************************************************************************
Carla Mantel | "Do any human beings ever realize
cma...@d.umn.edu | life while they live it?" -Our Town
******************************************************************************
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Anonymous
On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong and Marlene is right, it's not nice to play
with other people's addies......
--
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." -- Matt
Groening, "Love is Hell"
=======================
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