A Victim of the Witch Hunt Steps into the Light
M. Sebasky
Many of you don't know me, so maybe what I'm going to share with you won't
mean much. However, after much consideration it is with a heavy heart I
come forward on this forum to share with you the events of the past 24 hours
in this fic writer's life.
I want to stress up front that I am not angry. REALLY. I'm saddened by
this whole thing. I realize simply by coming forward with this, I may be
branded vindictive or worse, but I really thought you folks have the right
to know what happened, because it hasn't been just me.
And maybe next time, it will be you.
You see, yesterday morning when I went to work, I was a fic writer. By
midafternoon, unbeknownst to me, I had been branded a witch.
That's right. I was, without notice, warning or any sort of confrontation
by any accusers, removed from XFC. The only reason I noticed was I read a
lot of things on Egroups and my subscription to the group was gone.
I did what any of you would have done, since we all know Egroups mings. I
sent a letter to the administrator telling her of the problem and then,
blissfully unaware, I resubscribed. Two hours later, I was removed again. I
tried to resubscribe again, because, well, Egroups MINGS. This time it told
me I had been BANNED.
I was confused. I wrote the Group Administrator . I never received an
answer. Figuring it to still be a glitch, I approached the "Yes Virginia"
list about whether this had happened to them. They pointed me towards the
whole unpleasantness out here and to the comment about "the identified
bitches being pulled from the lists" or something to that extent.
I was stunned by the implication. I had never received any email, any sort
of confrontation by ANYONE about this. I'm not a big presence out here on
the boards. I write stories and I post them. It's the reason I'm here. In
the past 11 months, I have met so many lovely people in this community that
this really shocked me. Still, I hoped it was a mistake. I wrote the Group
Administrator again.
Finally, after intervention from a third party writing the ListMother and
begging her to reply, I was able to post a third email that was answered. I
was told in a very bleak and terse letter that the List Administrator's
"informants" had told her I was a witch, so she removed me. I was then told
that I and my "fellow witches" had better take down the site.
I was stunned by this out-of-the-blue accusation. What's more, I was deeply
hurt. I wrote back and told the Group Administrator so. I reminded her
that I had never done anything untoward on her list. I also reminded her
that she and I had never spoken before. I asked her why she didn't confront
me with this directly before taking action. I told her she had been poorly
used by her "informants". I told her she and they had made a mistake and I
demanded an apology.
She responded by telling me that the hard-core proof they had to judge me
on, was and I quote:
"Well, we know that [blank] is one [of the witches] for sure and we were
assuming guilt by association since she is your best friend."
My privileges were revoked completely because I was friends with someone
that she was told was a witch. That was the basis for the decision.
There was some vaguely good news. She reinstated me to the list, "for now",
telling me that I'd better warn my friend to take the site down. It was a
threat she had no business to make to me.
It wasn't an apology of any sort. But letting me back on the list was solid
proof of vindication. I resubscribed. I'm there now.
But not for long.
You see, friends and cyber-neighbors, it wasn't just me. Other YV members
were pulled off XFC yesterday without the courtesy of warning. Yet, like
me, none of them ever have received any sort of confrontation.
Due to the timing, I must assume that what happened to me, has happened to
them. How they handle this is up to them.
But as a community, I thought you'd want to be aware.
That's why I've come here. I felt you all should have the right to know
what happened to me, because as I said earlier, it could easily happen to
you. Where the witches are concerned, emotion is ruling the day, instead of
good judgment and common sense. Decisions have been made out of a backlash
of feeling and personal agendas, instead of hard facts. This has been a
twisted ballet of backbiting, gossip and hard feelings that have been taken
public and now there are casualties.
I am of one of them.
With all of this in mind, I beg the all the members of this newsgroup to end
this. Stop the glorification of the witches and the nastiness that has
prevailed in the last few days. Let my hurt be the last. It's too late to
take that back. Please, don't this happen to anyone else.
I'm unsubscribing to XFC now. It's nice to have the option, instead of
being told I have to. I have subscribed to FF and am still a loyal member
of PhoeniXfic and will still post to the newsgroups. I will still write and
read. It's what I came here to do. One fic writer will not make a
difference to XFC community, I realize that. But I can no longer stay in
that group now that I've seen the way it is managed.
I am fully prepared to take the consequences of sharing this story with you.
Like I said, I have nothing to hide. I
do hope you will still read my little stories. It's a chance I have to take
by going by coming forward to tell you of
what happened.
I do ask that a thread NOT start under this post. If you want to respond,
please do so to me privately at mseb...@yahoo.com. There's been enough
vitriol as of late. I do not wish this to be a catalyst for more public
hate.
I guess in conclusion all I want to say is that we should be careful with
one another and never forget there are people on the other end of the email
pipeline. We should be very careful who we accuse. And we should be aware
of how our Administrators are running our lists. The truth about that was
out there for me, folks.
I hope it never rears its head towards you.
peace.
M.
WickdZoot
to their owners rules.
zoot
Vote for Zoot! A Vote for Zoot means one less slagged writer!
"Scully has sex" is a sentence, not a plot. - Justin
DBKate
Sorry, but IMHO this is TMI ... too much information.
Do private fic list battles belong on ATXC? When I ran XAPEN, the answer was a
big, fat "NO" each and every time because 99% of the folks who lurk on USENET
haven't a clue and/or don't want a clue what goes on in the private e-mail
boxes of others and as utterly facinating as this fight may be to the
participants, it simply does not belong here.
This is an XFC matter, not an ATXC matter and may I mildly suggest it returns
there.
DBKate
paigec...@hotmail.com
Is that direct enough for you?
Tell Sarah Parsons to take your little coven down. You're not fooling
anyone by whining!
Paige (who does NOT agree with Goody Parson's quote "S. Evil advocate
of rec pages for the good of all ficdom"....
Yes, Virginia...I saved that one too!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ashley Trent
>anyone by whining!
RTFLOL! The one thing that was conspiciously missing from that whinging
blather was an actual denial. Wonder why.
Snarkypup
boards. We're usually a community with the ability to discuss things, even
stupid things like that f**king stupid-ass site, with a modicom of sanity
and good taste.
I'm on YV too, and I don't recall anyone being nearly as mean and as harsh
as you have just been, at any point. If they were, I'd have unsubbed. I'm a
nice person, reasonable and not into gossipy back-biting. I wouldn't be on a
list that I felt was that way.
I'm just disgusted with this entire thing. You should be ashamed.
Astonished in every way,
Jess
viole...@my-deja.com
I must agree with Jess. And I'm a huge admirer of your writing, Paige -
- and yours, too, Jess.
pam
> Tell Sarah Parsons to take your little coven down. You're not fooling
> anyone by whining!
>
> Paige (who does NOT agree with Goody Parson's quote "S. Evil advocate
> of rec pages for the good of all ficdom"....
Sarah Ellen Parsons???
But, she can *write*.
And her homepage is simple, neat, clean, readable, attractive,
and functional.
I find it hard to imagine someone capable of designing such
a webpage voluntarily contributing to a site that looked
like a poster child for websitesthatsuck.com.
Jennifer Scott
>> of rec pages for the good of all ficdom"....
>
>Sarah Ellen Parsons???
I thought the term "Goody Parsons" was a reference to one of the characters in
"The Crucible" by Arthur Miller. Am I totally off base, or was that seriously
Sarah?
~Jennifer Scott
Mira...@aol.com
Come visit me! http://members.aol.com/Mirax327/home.html
"Wouldn't it be better if we abducted and anal probed their religious or
political leaders, instead of any idiot in a pickup truck?"
penelopody
This is the first time I've understood why people get frightened or
defensive about 'flame wars.' And that's thanks to Paige C which is a
surprise - not that I know you, just that I thought it would be one of
those more aggressively vocal people. It's ok to have strong feelings
I suppose, it's not like M Sebetsky (sp?) is a defenseless creature.
But it could have been said differently and this would have sounded
more stylish and reasonable.
Ah well this is all so horribly interesting. And this from someone who
didn't watch 'Survivor' cause she thought it was leaning too far into
'Running man', christians to the lions territory. Ah me.
Pen
In article <8p9a7f$vam$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
--
Cuckoo! Cuckoo!
While I meditated on that theme
Day dawned.
Teddi Litman
pam wrote:
> paigec...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Tell Sarah Parsons to take your little coven down. You're not fooling
> > anyone by whining!
> >
> > Paige (who does NOT agree with Goody Parson's quote "S. Evil advocate
> > of rec pages for the good of all ficdom"....
>
> Sarah Ellen Parsons???
>
> But, she can *write*.
>
> And her homepage is simple, neat, clean, readable, attractive,
> and functional.
And it locks Netscape too.
Teddi
Anonymous
Well it was enjoyable reading the fanfic here----but based on the few
responses I gather that ppl who practice wicca are not welcomed.
What a shame that biogots once again raise their true ugliness to the
world. The freedom of religion is a basic right----what are you going
to do when you are told that you are no longer allowed to practice
your religion because of morons that refuse to recognize anything but
their own.
In 1934 (or so) such a man started a nation down that path and after
the wholesale slaughter of over 9 million people that didn't fit into
his belief structure...it was finally ended after a war that took many
more lives. Its almost the 21st century----isn't it time for the
hatred to end.
Blessed Be
Brenna nah Kerridwen
High Priestess of the Church of Tuatha Keltoi
--------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==-------
Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server
-----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==----------
kro...@spyral.net
Are you a troll? If not ...
Anon, this debate (to put it politely) has nothing at all to do with
wicca. The Wicked X Witches (or something like that) are a group of
fanfic critics who take great glee in bashing fanfic which does not
live up to their high standards. Since they do this using other than
their usual screen names, accusations have been flying around the
newsgroup as to who is and who is not a witch. Things have gotten
rather nasty, as you saw.
Again, nothing to do with wicca.
Nancy
--
nkr...@juno.com.
Anonymous
I just started reading this newsgroup about a week ago. And no I am
not a troll, just unaware that that the Wicked X Witches were fanfic
critics.
Thank you
Brenna nah Kerridwen
who will now sit back and shut up and just enjoy the fanfic....
Shannara
<anon...@anonymous.anonymous> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:16:29 GMT, kro...@spyral.net wrote:
>
>> Oh lordy, Hitler raises his ugly head again.
>>
>>Are you a troll? If not ...
>>
>>Anon, this debate (to put it politely) has nothing at all to do with
>>wicca. The Wicked X Witches (or something like that) are a group of
>>fanfic critics who take great glee in bashing fanfic which does not
>>live up to their high standards. Since they do this using other than
>>their usual screen names, accusations have been flying around the
>>newsgroup as to who is and who is not a witch. Things have gotten
>>rather nasty, as you saw.
>>
>>Again, nothing to do with wicca.
>>
>>Nancy
>
>I just started reading this newsgroup about a week ago. And no I am
>not a troll, just unaware that that the Wicked X Witches were fanfic
>critics.
>
They're not, they're just a bunch of nasty idiots who think
highly of themselves but are too cowardly to admit publicly
who they are (though we found out anyway).
lee burwasser
> Well it was enjoyable reading the fanfic here----but based on the few
> responses I gather that ppl who practice wicca are not welcomed.
FEW is right! If you're going to make pronouncements, GET THE FACTS FIRST.
First fact: the "Wicked XF Witches" or whatever they call themselves ARE
NOT WICCANS -- or NeoPagans, or Asatru, or Seidhr or any of the rest of the
pagan faiths.
Second fact: the "Witches" CALL THEMSELVES that. It is not a label pasted
on them by anyone else. If you don't like it, take it up with the
"Witches," not the newsgroup.
> What a shame that biogots once again raise their true ugliness to the
> world.
I suppose the uglyness of your hasty and baseless accusations is false.
> The freedom of religion is a basic right----what are you going
> to do when you are told that you are no longer allowed to practice
> your religion because of morons that refuse to recognize anything but
> their own.
Repeat: NO ONE accused or condemned Wicca. YOU read this INTO the debate
WITHOUT ever checking whether the "Witches" were Wiccan or not.
[[ snip ]]
Considering the damage done to your coreligionists by people who used the
worst possible evidence, and no rational investigation at all, on which to
base their accusations, I should think you especially should get the facts
before you shoot your mouth off.
> Blessed Be
> Brenna nah Kerridwen
> High Priestess of the Church of Tuatha Keltoi
A High Priestess who pulls this sort of rash and hasty action shows herself
unfit to lead her coven. If this were still the Burning Times, you would
all be dead by now -- not from a UseNet flame war by people who wouldn't
know a pagan if she danced deosil, but from some previous RL rush to
judgment.
Lee Burwasser
*working stiff--don't blame me for policy*
Aletea Lily Holder
hey lee, you know alot about Wicca. are you Wiccan?
~*~
TASTE THE RAINBOW
The darkness ahead may be your brightest light
WickdZoot
>unfit to lead her coven. If this were still the Burning Times, you would
>all be dead by now -- not from a UseNet flame war by people who wouldn't
>know a pagan if she danced deosil, but from some previous RL rush to
>judgment.
>
>
>Lee Burwasser
Amen, Lee. I think it's far more likely that she's styling herself High
Priestess than that she is High Priestess.
And if she is, woe betide that circle, that's all I can say.
zoot, who once upon a time served as HP herself....
"Lo, and out of nowhere, a champion shall appear..." - anonymous
---------------------------------------------------------
VOTE ZOOT 2000
http://www.geocities.com/cassandraxf/index.html
lee burwasser
> hey lee, you know alot about Wicca. are you Wiccan?
No, I'm not, but I know a few. And mythology/folklore/comparative
religion have always been a hobby of mine.
A few witches in science fiction fandom trust us enough that they've
come out and told us a few things about themselves. None of the
Mysteries, of course; just the sorts of things that people of any faith
make songs and pictures and dances about.
The Morrigan
{shrug} I'd never been to the site, but after all the arguing I went to
check it out. It's true that everything they're poking fun at is
execrable, but the whole thing is still too mean-spirited for my
tastes. Me, once I decide someome can't write their way out of a paper
bag... I just hit the delete key when I see a post from them. It's so
much less confrontational that way... I hate confrontation! ;)
~~ The Morrigan
inexplicably lured out of lurking
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everything possible to be believed is an image of truth.
- William Blake
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anonymous
wrote:
Well I apologized once the facts was made clear to me.
I may me wiccan....but to err is human and to admit that one is wrong
is the only recourse left when a mistake was made.
If my presence in anyway offends you, I shall leave.....
Brenna nah Kerridwen
jssa...@my-deja.com
used the worst possible evidence, and no rational investigation at all,
on which to base their accusations, I should think you especially
should get the facts before you shoot your mouth off.
A High Priestess who pulls this sort of rash and hasty action shows
herself unfit to lead her coven. If this were still the Burning Times,
you would all be dead by now -- not from a UseNet flame war by people
who wouldn't know a pagan if she danced deosil, but from some previous
RL rush to judgment.<<
Hey now...maybe we should all just take a deep breath and settle down.
It seems to me that what happened here is that someone wandered onto
the newsgroup in search of FANFICTION - some thing we all love, about a
subject we all love - and stumbled across what sounded like an attack
on her religion. Trying to follow the mountain of debate and
accustation and counter-accusation on the subject of the witches has
been exhausting and confusing even if you follow the newsgroup
regularly. Its easy to see how a newbie could get confused, and, as a
member of an often persecuted religious minority, its easy to see how
she could get upset. Let's try to remember that what drew us all here
was a common interest and a common love, and that hopefully, when this
ugly little backwater of debate washes away, we will once again be a
community a fans and writers and readers who feed each other's
interests, entertain and elighten each other, and encourage each
other's creativity.
All I know of either of you, Lee and Zoot, is that you've been publicly
involved in the Wicked Witches controversy in order to support the
point that its not nice to pick on people, even if they make what seem
to be silly mistakes. My suggestion is this; don't land so hard on a
newbie. She may be the next author you love.
Jssangel
WickdZoot
>newbie. She may be the next author you love.
>
>Jssangel
Point taken, Jssangel, and I will admit that my annoyance may have been
overreaction.
I will point out that as someone who has been slammed for things because
somebody shot their mouth off before reading through a thread; I think, before
we go off, it behooves *all* of us to read through before hitting that send
button.
zoot
lee burwasser
The first newbie netiquette lesson is, Lurk Before You Post. Read and
study before you shoot your mouth off. Unless you first take time to
understand the group in general and the specific thread in question, it's
your own doing if you get your head bitten off.
Maybe if we leaned on a few hasty newbie posts, we wouldn't get confirmed
post-before-reading (not to mention rewrite-from-your-own-head) among the
regulars.
As to thinking her religion under attack, she had not the slightest reason
to. A Wiccan must know better than the rest of us that "witch" to the
average Anglophone is about fairy tales and Haloween. Most people who call
themselves or others "witches" don't even know that Wicca exists. As when
Sen. Helms wrote a bill to deny witches tax relief as religious bodies,
with a definition of "witch" that totally excluded every witch I've ever
met or read about. A Wiccan more than any of us should know that use of
the word "witch" is not even evidence, let alone proof, that the poster
even knows the word "Wicca."
Moreover, this person claims to be a High Priestess, the leader and
counselor of her coven. Rash and hasty judgment is even more culpable in
someone with such office and responsibility.
The time for EVERYone -- newbie, lurker or regular -- to find out what a
thread is about is BEFORE they post comparisons to Hitler.