season 7 and closure
lj1...@my-deja.com
Samantha's fate. I'm wondering, though, how many of you who liked
"Closure" also like the general directon of season 7...and the opposite,
how many of you who didn't like "Closure" also don't like season 7?
I've watched the X-Files since the first episode and have many of the
shows on tape. I frequently watch the re-runs on FX (for example, there
were some espisodes, especially in S1 and S2, that I missed the first
time around. But, I think I've seen them all now). So, I've been
following the development of this show as long as anyone (except those
who work on it!). And I've now concluded with great sadness that, IMO
it's time for the show to go.
SUZ and Closure are a great example of why I believe this. Here are my
reasons as to why the show is on the way out, IMO...
The aliens and the invasion plotline has never come to a REAL resolution
but has been totally dropped (this is not to say that the X-Files can't
be a good show without it, just that this is a very nagging loose end).
Even an episode like Clousure, which harkens back to Samantha's
abduction, doesn't really get into it. Even the season opener, which has
been the only real mytharc episode this season other then Closure, didn't
go there, except in Mulder's dream squence and the physical presence of
the alien ship. Come to think of it, it's been almost a year since the
aliens themselves have been in the plotline. NOW...it's all still out
there in X-Files land, it's just that the characters never refer to it.
After all that's happened to Mulder and to Scully (abductions,
harvesting, exposure to the virus, etc.) this makes no sense whatsover.
As if, most of the known Consortium being reduced to Toasty Flakes meant
the aliens went away and the virus(es), the rebel aliens, the bounty
hunters, etc. are gone. As if it never happened.
Lack of continuity. "Closure" gave us a sharp right turn when evidence of
Samantha...and Jeffery...under CSM's care showed up. After all, Jeffery
was supposed to harbor deep-seeded feelings of resentment towards CSM for
abandoning him and Cassandra. Placing Jeffery there when Samantha was 14
(or even a few years earlier) totally blows the earlier continuity, since
Jeffery had to be around Samantha's age or just a little older/younger.
If Jeffery was there because Cassandra and CGB were still together, then
Jeffery knew what his dad looked like....and Cassandra had to know
something was awry concerning Samantha. Given the timeline, it's even
possible Cassandra had some idea who Samantha was (certanilly knew
something fishy was going on), even if Samantha didn't. Don't you think
it would be really possible Cassandra would have spilled the beans to
Mulder and Scully when she met them leter? If Jeffery was at the base
with his dad after Cassandra and CGB split up, Jeffery's later comment
about abandonment makes no sense.
I mentioned in an earlier post that IMO, season 7 is like a trip right
back to season one in terms of how mytharc elements are treated. Most
episodes are stand-alone MOW, and when the mytharc does come in, it's
generally in very small ways. It worked in season one precisely because
we DID'NT know very much about the ongoing plot yet. It doesn't work as
well in season 7 because we've had six prior seasons of this story line
to remember and connect into season 7...and because the past six seasons
have built up big implications of the events in the mytharc.
Lastly, the relationship between M and S. The fact is, it isn't going
anywhere and it sounds like Frank S. has confirmed this. In fact, for
all the writers care, it doesn't exist...New Year's kiss and "touchstone"
speech aside. I believe now these scenes were largely bones thrown out to
the shipper fans. There was very little overt connection (not just
physical but emotional) between M & S in this whole two-parter except for
the comforting scene, the diary-reading scene, and the short moment near
the end when Scully asks Mulder if he wants her to go in and talk to the
nurse. M & S are back to being co-workers and casual friends because of
that working relationship and that's it. It doesn't appear that there is
anything coming up in the remaining episodes that will change that
situation. Again, this is back to season one territory with maybe a
little more trust thrown in. A lot of what they have been through
together is just not taken into account anymore.
Like I said earlier in my post, I have taped a lot of episodes. But, I
find myself taping over a lot of season 7. That's a real red light
warning to me. IMO, the show is losing what has made it so special. I
hope that Fox Network will let it go this year before it's just a shell
of its former self. I will remember the X-Files with fondness, but IMO,
the show is sinking.
Liz
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
>I admitt to being very disappointed in Closure and the resolution to
>Samantha's fate. I'm wondering, though, how many of you who liked
>"Closure" also like the general directon of season 7...and the opposite,
>how many of you who didn't like "Closure" also don't like season 7?
I disagree. If anything, I kept thinking that this was a fairly
decent episode. But I've liked most of season 7 *except* for Orison
and Signs and Wonders, and now I can kinda see where they might have
had a place in the overall storyline.
This resolution of Samantha appears to fit how I would expect Mulder's
sister to act. This is the first time she appears as a rebellious
fighter against her fate. Not a complacient daughter looking to CSM
as "daddy."
snip
>The aliens and the invasion plotline has never come to a REAL resolution
>but has been totally dropped (this is not to say that the X-Files can't
>be a good show without it, just that this is a very nagging loose end).
Mmm, I don't think the aliens and invasion plotline has been totally
dropped. Not with the way Amor Fati went. Not with the way Samantha
disappeared in the end. "Walk-ins"--or rebels? Whichever, she's
dead. I think that aspect of what Mulder wrote was dead.
>Even an episode like Clousure, which harkens back to Samantha's
>abduction, doesn't really get into it. Even the season opener, which has
>been the only real mytharc episode this season other then Closure, didn't
>go there, except in Mulder's dream squence and the physical presence of
>the alien ship. Come to think of it, it's been almost a year since the
>aliens themselves have been in the plotline. NOW...it's all still out
>there in X-Files land, it's just that the characters never refer to it.
They're regrouping, most likely. And I'm thinking we'll see them at
the end.
>After all that's happened to Mulder and to Scully (abductions,
>harvesting, exposure to the virus, etc.) this makes no sense whatsover.
>As if, most of the known Consortium being reduced to Toasty Flakes meant
>the aliens went away and the virus(es), the rebel aliens, the bounty
>hunters, etc. are gone. As if it never happened.
Well, by the Rebel's point of view, they won by reducing the
Consortium to Toasty Flakes. CSM's operation on Mulder was his
attempt to seize power and, looking at the condition he's in now, he's
failed miserably. Wanna bet he bites the big one at the end--and the
resolution, while not entirely wiping out the concept of invasion,
will reduce its likelihood?
For that matter, what *did* we see of the aliens other than the Rebels
recently?
>Lack of continuity. "Closure" gave us a sharp right turn when evidence of
>Samantha...and Jeffery...under CSM's care showed up. After all, Jeffery
>was supposed to harbor deep-seeded feelings of resentment towards CSM for
>abandoning him and Cassandra. Placing Jeffery there when Samantha was 14
>(or even a few years earlier) totally blows the earlier continuity, since
>Jeffery had to be around Samantha's age or just a little older/younger.
Do we know *when* in that period Jeffrey was there, or that he was
there the whole time? Remember, there was a suggestion that Cassandra
was in and out of hospitals (and abductions?). How long was Cassandra
gone? Was Jeffrey's memory dinked with?
snip
>Lastly, the relationship between M and S. The fact is, it isn't going
>anywhere and it sounds like Frank S. has confirmed this. In fact, for
>all the writers care, it doesn't exist...New Year's kiss and "touchstone"
>speech aside. I believe now these scenes were largely bones thrown out to
>the shipper fans. There was very little overt connection (not just
>physical but emotional) between M & S in this whole two-parter except for
>the comforting scene, the diary-reading scene, and the short moment near
>the end when Scully asks Mulder if he wants her to go in and talk to the
>nurse. M & S are back to being co-workers and casual friends because of
>that working relationship and that's it. It doesn't appear that there is
>anything coming up in the remaining episodes that will change that
>situation. Again, this is back to season one territory with maybe a
>little more trust thrown in. A lot of what they have been through
>together is just not taken into account anymore.
I disagree; I suspect a lot of it is now off-scene. There were a lot
of small moments here which suggested there was a close
relationship--but I don't think they've Done The Big Nasty yet; it's
unlikely they will for a while.
>Like I said earlier in my post, I have taped a lot of episodes. But, I
>find myself taping over a lot of season 7. That's a real red light
>warning to me. IMO, the show is losing what has made it so special. I
>hope that Fox Network will let it go this year before it's just a shell
>of its former self. I will remember the X-Files with fondness, but IMO,
>the show is sinking.
I find that it's winding to an end, but it's not sinking, it's
concluding.
IMO, Season 7 is much, MUCH better than that abomination of a Season
6. And I think that these resolutions are much better than what David
Lynch tried to do with Twin Peaks in Fire Walk With Me....did anyone
else think of the way Laura escaped while watching that final scene
with Mulder and Samantha?
jrw
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
snip
>I loved having Jeffrey's handprints there. It was really
>sad. Another life full of tests and torture only he
>didn't have anyone searching for him. It was like a
>hint that there were more lives destroyed here than we
>had time to go into.
Yes. That was something I felt about Jeffrey's handprints as well.
jrw
lj1...@my-deja.com
> Well, by the Rebel's point of view, they won by reducing the
> Consortium to Toasty Flakes.
I don't see that as the final victory -- I can see it as a battle won,
but the war would be far from over.
> CSM's operation on Mulder was his attempt to seize power
> and, looking at the condition he's in now, he's failed
> miserably. Wanna bet he bites the big one at the end--and the
> resolution, while not entirely wiping out the concept of invasion,
> will reduce its likelihood?
I don't see how this could happen..one man's death reducing the
likelihood of the alien invasion? The hybrids were a way for humanity to
SURVIVE the coming invasion, not a way to prevent it.
I guess THAT's what gets me about the invasion plotline. For a show that
has brought up the imminent threat of alien invasion and the destruction
of humanity as we know it, surprisingly little emphasis has been placed
on that plot since the middle of last season. Maybe they will take a page
from "War of the Worlds" and at the last minute introduce an alien-
killing virus to keep the baddies away from Earth? Well, we've already
had LIAYF (Luke, I am your father) this season, so anything's possible.
> Do we know *when* in that period Jeffrey was there, or that he was
> there the whole time? Remember, there was a suggestion that Cassandra
> was in and out of hospitals (and abductions?). How long was Cassandra
> gone? Was Jeffrey's memory dinked with?
The memory tweaking of Jeffery Spender would be a possibility and the
only way I can see that what was introduced in Closure can be resovled
with Jeffery's earlier statements...especially not knowing his father,
that is the kicker. At the age Jeffery would have been when Samantha was
14, he would have been able to remember what his father looked like (I'm
assuming that Jeffery was somewhere in late 20's/early 30's when killed.
He was a somewhat "green" agent but had enough experience to be put in
charge of some cases, whether that was with Daddy's assistance or not he
had to have some experience).
On whether or not the "ship" is going anywhere:
> I disagree; I suspect a lot of it is now off-scene. There were a lot
> of small moments here which suggested there was a close
> relationship--but I don't think they've Done The Big Nasty yet; it's
> unlikely they will for a while.
I care much less about the "resolution" of the romantic side of the
relationship then I do about seeing continued character development in
this area. When they downplay as much as they have past the Millenium ep,
it is inconsistent with the previous development in this area, IMO.
> I find that it's winding to an end, but it's not sinking, it's
> concluding.
I just hope that the conclusion is satisfying. This does not mean that
all questions have to be answered, just that it would be nice to walk
away from the run of this show and have some conclusion that is
satisfying and energizing at the same time (they do want us to go to the
future movies, right?)
> IMO, Season 7 is much, MUCH better than that abomination of a Season
> 6.
That's real funny, because I am NOW looking on much of season 6 with
fondness, especially the "dream arc."
> And I think that these resolutions are much better than what David
> Lynch tried to do with Twin Peaks in Fire Walk With Me....did anyone
> else think of the way Laura escaped while watching that final scene
> with Mulder and Samantha?
I didn't see FWWM aka the Twin Peaks movie prequel (I had heard it was
much more perverse then the series and I just didn't want to subject
myself to it, that's not enterntainment to me).
I loved the show, though, at least I loved the first season. Twin Peaks,
IMO, is a prime example of a show in self-destruct mode, especially as
the second season rolled along. And talk about endings that leave
someone who has enjoyed the show with a feeling of dissatisfaction and
feeling uneasy...well, won't go there and spoil, I understand Twin Peaks
is being repeated on Bravo after a considerable respite and wouldn't want
to reveal details to any newbies.
Helena Bowles
To: alt.tv.x-files.analysis <alt.tv.x-files.analysis>
Subject: Truth and the Mytharc (was Re: season 7 and closure)
Date: 15 February 2000 20:57
-----Original Message-----
From: VoxRob <vox...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.tv.x-files.analysis
Date: 15 February 2000 01:59
Subject: Re: season 7 and closure
Rob wrote:>
>Keeping everything consistent is kind of a challenge. I personally find it
>very much so watching the episodes on FX and using what I know now about
the
>whole alien thread of the show to try and put the pieces together. Alot
times
>it doesn't appear to fit at all. But then again, it's difficult to tell
when
>people may be lying or only telling half-truths.
I think this is a very important point to remember. I don't try to make
sense of the Mytharc for the simple reason that we are never given a clear
view of it. We may be aware of more things than Mulder and Scully but this
is not a show where the audience is ever given full disclosure. In a very
real way the X Files watcher is almost a passive participant in the plot.
What I mean is that in most TV shows the viewer either has the point of view
of the principle characters, and knows what they know, or has the status of
some omnipresent superbeing overseeing the actions of all the factions
affecting the narrative - god reading the box scores, I suppose. The
unique thing about the X Files and what draws the watcher into the events is
that we have our own distinct point of view. We see what Mulder and Scully
see but we don't always know what it means to them - they are characters in
the way that our friends are characters, we may be able to guess what
something means to them as we know them well but we rarely know for sure if
we are right, we know something of what goes on in their lives but not
always what goes on behind the scenes or in their heads. Sometimes we know
more about narrative events than they do but that knowledge is rarely clear
cut or unambiguous. Just like in real life each person involved in an event,
including the viewer, has their own interpretation of the meaning, reality
and truth of what happened so in a very real sense the Western conception of
*truth* (as something concrete, unambiguous and externally derived) is
continually challenged.
The X Files tagline "The Truth is Out There" is an irony. Mulder spends
his life searching for a linear "Western" truth, in the same way that many
people on this newsgroup want a linear definite "answer" *what happened*
when the X Files has shown repeatedly the this is not the essence of the
show. Mulder (and Scully) are on a journey that challenges their ideas about
truth but what brings closure for Mulder is far nearer to the "truth of the
heart" tham the "heart of the truth". Their are still questions about
Samantha's abduction, he hasn't found her physically so he has no way of
knowing in the western, concrete, linear sense that what he sees and feels
has any validity. The only "truth" is that Samantha did not die when she was
taken and that she suffered afterwards. We don't know thw details, Mulder
doesn't know either. The important point is that Mulder's internal truth has
changed. He *knows* Samantha is dead in a way he did not before. His closure
has come from a change within himself not a change in the physical evidence
he has which is why as someone else pointed out Scully should absolutely
*not* have witnessed Mulder's epiphany.
This playing with and exploring of the nature of truth is what makes the
X Files stand out for me as the best television drama I've yet seen. No, it
sometimes fails, is sometimes too ambiguous, occasionally pretentious but it
rarely fails to challenge. In the face of this I can certainly live with not
having a linear plot that makes sense over the "Mytharc" episodes. In fact I
think it would be disappointing if the ends were wrapped up and we had a
clear and final answer to everything. As it is I think we understand things
probably about as well as Mulder and Scully which fits our status as witness
to the X Files universe.
Well that turned into an essay didn't it? Thanks for reading if you got
this far.
HELENA
Deborah
4 new questions will be raised. Some things will just be chopped off with no
real explanation as we've seen througout the series. CC will emphasize the
elements that he believes will translate to film.
This could mean the romance (am I delusional or what?). I could see him
saving any great denouement to the MSR for the big screen. This means
they'll have to up the ante, make us believe this could happen, in the last
3 eps.
Or not. But I don't think a film without the romance would interest me. I've
seen enough thrillers and there's a whole slew of films out with alien or
paranormal themes out now. If they do an MOTW type film, there will have to
be something from the series to make it stand out, and I'm betting on MSR
(or hoping for). Or maybe he'll have them totally split, walk their separate
ways and bring them back together in the film. This is a time honored plot
line for movies. The male and female who had something hot and heavy going
on in the past but split for some reasons get back together for the good of
the project (i.e. Casablanca or dozens of other films). That would be a bit
of a gamble as well.
I could see one or the other of them leaving the FBI (maybe Mulder now that
he's found Sam. maybe Scully to go off and have that "normal" life).
I think the last episode will be a teaser for the next film, which is risky.
I suppose they could do a Mulder and Scully reunion in a few years (bleah!)
on television.
Deborah
Numue99
>There will be no closure whatsoever. For every thing that CC addresses 3 or
>4 new questions will be raised. Some things will just be chopped off with no
>real explanation as we've seen througout the series. CC will emphasize the
>elements that he believes will translate to film.
Another feature film is a very iffy prospect right now. As long as FOX
prioritizes an eighth season, pressuring the stars to return if their hearts
aren't in it, or does an eighth without them both, the popularity of the show
will wane, and the profitability of another movie will be more questionable.
After doing an eighth GA and/or DD would not be as willing to sign on for
another film until they know how their film careers are (or are not) shaping
up.
>This could mean the romance (am I delusional or what?). I could see him
>saving any great denouement to the MSR for the big screen. This means
>they'll have to up the ante, make us believe this could happen, in the last
>3 eps.
FOX has to know that another film would not be as much of a draw, especially
internationally, without a dollop of romance. Couples often make filmgoing
decisions together and, especially in terms of potential viewers who were not
hard core fans, the romantic drawing card can only help. You're right, though,
that to keep interest up the show would have to increase the prospect of a
romance at the end of the series without resolving it.
> I'm betting on MSR
>(or hoping for). Or maybe he'll have them totally split, walk their separate
>ways and bring them back together in the film. This is a time honored plot
>line for movies. The male and female who had something hot and heavy going
>on in the past but split for some reasons get back together for the good of
>the project (i.e. Casablanca or dozens of other films). That would be a bit
>of a gamble as well.
>
>I could see one or the other of them leaving the FBI (maybe Mulder now that
>he's found Sam. maybe Scully to go off and have that "normal" life).
I agree that the only way we will get any affirmation of MSR is in the context
of angst and separation. They are separated due to forces beyond their control
or manipulated by the conspirators. They each believe the other doesn't feel
the same, and/or are convinced that separation is better for the other person
for some reason. But, WE would know that the feelings are there. That's the
best we'll get, folks. I, for one, would rather have that than perpetual
ambiguity. Besides, it is simply not possible that CC will have them walk off
into the sunset together, even if it's strictly platonic. That might be a
bitter pill for shippers, but it won't be bitter in the least for other fans.
He'll want an ending that's bittersweet (at least) for the majority of fans.
Separation is the only way, but separation without affirming their VERY DEEP
feelings would not stimulate ongoing interest in the show for many, many fans
or casual viewers.
Unbound I
>
>
>There will be no closure whatsoever. For every thing that CC addresses 3 or
>4 new questions will be raised. Some things will just be chopped off with no
>real explanation as we've seen througout the series. CC will emphasize the
>elements that he believes will translate to film.
>
>
>
I see it--I don't need, nor do I want, some pat, everything gets fixed at the
end resolution to this series. I don't mind if there's some ambiguity, some
mystery left unanswered. That, IMO, would be wonderfully in tune for a series
that has prided itself on giving us open-ended answers to the questions it
poses, ones that force us to weigh in with our own opinions about what we have
just seen.
You're right, some issues will probably be ignored and only time will tell
how detrimental that will be when we evaluate season 7. But I do believe (and
call me crazy) that if there are no plans for a season 8, CC will resolve the
more pertinent issues regarding the mytharc (while possibly leaving some
questions out there for us to ponder--which is fine with me) and the MSR. I
think CC has to realize that the MSR must be addressed and I do believe it will
be in the three-part finale.
To save something like that for a movie series which may never occur would
be foolish. And while CC is many things, I honestly don't believe he's a fool.
And for me, the MSR is the one thing I want to see addressed specifically.
Everything else can hinted at or even left unanswered and I doubt it will
really bother me a great deal.
>
>
>
>This could mean the romance (am I delusional or what?). I could see him
>saving any great denouement to the MSR for the big screen. This means
>they'll have to up the ante, make us believe this could happen, in the last
>3 eps.
>
>
>
be a film series. Now do I believe we'll get some great romantic seen between
M&S? No I don't, but I do believe there will be a step taken by both of them
toward proclaiming their feelings for one another (actually Mulder's already
done this, it's Scully who needs to take the next step). It's something that CC
honestly can't avoid no matter how badly he may want to otherwise he runs the
risk of rendering the past year or so of his series null and void since this is
the only logical conclusion to their relationship at this point.
>
>
>
>Or not. But I don't think a film without the romance would interest me. I've
>seen enough thrillers and there's a whole slew of films out with alien or
>paranormal themes out now. If they do an MOTW type film, there will have to
>(or hoping for). Or maybe he'll have them totally split, walk their separate
>ways and bring them back together in the film. This is a time honored plot
>line for movies. The male and female who had something hot and heavy going
>on in the past but split for some reasons get back together for the good of
>the project (i.e. Casablanca or dozens of other films). That would be a bit
>of a gamble as well.
>
>
>
routine before. I do believe a stand-alone is the best way to go for the next
movie and I think within the context of such a story can include a pivotal
moment for the MSR. It's been done by this group before--Milagro, which I
watched again last night, is a wonderful example of this.
>
>
>
>I could see one or the other of them leaving the FBI (maybe Mulder now that
>he's found Sam. maybe Scully to go off and have that "normal" life).
>
>
>
the characters is vital. Don't just do it to split them up only to reunite them
later. Honestly, though, I think they are so connected with one another that if
one left the other would go as well. I can't see Scully staying if Mulder
decides to leave for example and I think the reverse is true as well.
>
>
>
>I think the last episode will be a teaser for the next film, which is risky.
>I suppose they could do a Mulder and Scully reunion in a few years (bleah!)
>on television.
>
>Deborah
>
>
>
episode will be one giant tease but I do believe there will be some things left
dangling. And like I said, I don't have a problem with that because that's been
the tone of the show from day one--the idea that the mysteries we've been
exposed to don't have conclusive answers.
Maybe I'm being naive here, but I really believe 1013 is going to come up
with something special in the final 3-parter (assuming there is no season 8 of
course).
Unbound I
Chevrefoil
>Maybe I'm being naive here, but I really believe 1013 is going to come up
>with something special in the final 3-parter (assuming there is no season 8
>of
>course)
Vince says he's writing and directing episode 21. So unless eps 19-22 are going
to be shown out of production order, or unless Carter breaks protocol and lets
someone else write a mytharc ep, which seems highly unlikely, there isn't going
to be a three-part finale. To me, that suggests that 1013 is planning for
another season. ::sigh::
Chev
Konrad Douglas Frye
> Maybe I'm being naive here, but I really believe 1013 is going to come up
>with something special in the final 3-parter (assuming there is no
>season 8 of course).
I was surprised to learn that Vince is writing and directing episode 21.
I don't want to read too much into this but it's difficult to ignore a
couple of important facts:
- Carter and Spotnitz have been the dominant forces behind the show's
mythology since the second season. I find it hard to believe that they'd
turn over the reins to Mr. Gilligan if episodes 20, 21, and 22 do in fact
form a three part series finale.
- If Vince's episode is a standalone, how can 1013 possibly bring this
show to a conclusion in a single episode (even if it is 2 hours long ala
the finales to STTNG or DS9)?
------
Konrad Frye (k f r y e @ e s c a p e . c a)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with the
bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Unbound I
>
>
>
>unbo...@aol.com (Unbound I) writes:
>
>>Maybe I'm being naive here, but I really believe 1013 is going to come up
>>with something special in the final 3-parter (assuming there is no season 8
>>of
>
>Vince says he's writing and directing episode 21. So unless eps 19-22 are
>going
>to be shown out of production order, or unless Carter breaks protocol and
>lets
>someone else write a mytharc ep, which seems highly unlikely, there isn't
>going
>to be a three-part finale. To me, that suggests that 1013 is planning for
>another season. ::sigh::
>
>
>Chev
>
>
>
conclude with one massive 3-part arc. It is possible, though, that the final
episodes will be shown out of order. Wouldn't be the first time. Does anyone
know something conclusive about this? Is there a 3-part arc or was I given some
bad information?
As far as a possible season 8 goes, I'm all for if, and only if, all the
parties involved have their hearts set on it. There is no doubt in my mind 1013
has the creative energy to tell another season worth of interesting stories,
but if DD & GA aren't willing to commit completely to it, I say ride into the
sunset while things are still going strong.
Unless there's been a recent change of heart, GA has said numerous times she
wants to leave after this season and obviously, so has DD. Now I realize the
folks at Fox are trying to lure DD back with huge chunks of dough but I haven't
heard anything recent from him saying he's interested in another season.
Again, if DD & GA are energized at the thought of another season, I'm all
for it. But if they don't have their hearts set on it, then it's time to move
on and be proud of the legacy they've left behind.
Unbound I
Thomas R. Walker
Chevrefoil wrote:
> Vince says he's writing and directing episode 21. So unless eps 19-22 are going
> to be shown out of production order, or unless Carter breaks protocol and lets
> someone else write a mytharc ep, which seems highly unlikely, there isn't going
> to be a three-part finale. To me, that suggests that 1013 is planning for
> another season. ::sigh::
I think it's likely that eps 19-22 are going to be shown out of production order.
I've seen earlier rumors that episode 19 was going to be another Lone Gunmen
episode, probably written by Vince. If the X-Files keeps to its normal shooting
schedule of 9-10 days per episode, then episode 21 will be shooting in early
April. Since David's movie is due out April 7th, it seems likely that he will be
taking time off from the show around that time to promote the film. 1013 probably
decided to make episode 21 the Lone Gunmen episode since it could be filmed without
David. There could very well still be a three-part finale, but it will consist of
episodes 19,20, and 22 rather than 20,21, and 22. Episode 21 will be shown before
those ones either in late April or early May.
Tom W.
Unbound I
without altering the possible events of a final 3-part arc.
My one question is this: If they wanted to do a stand-alone without M&S (or
with them in minor roles), why choose another Lone Gunmen episode? I had heard
rumblings of a Krycek episode this year and believe that would be an
interesting way to go.
Where the hell has Krycek been anyway--still in New Zealand? <g>
Unbound I
Konrad Douglas Frye
>I think it's likely that eps 19-22 are going to be shown out of
>production order. I've seen earlier rumors that episode 19 was going to
>be another Lone Gunmen episode, probably written by Vince.
This is the most plausible scenario but frankly, what the hell do we need
another Gunmen episode for? They're getting their own show and I see
absolutely no point in wasting priceless episode time on their trivial
shenanigans. I hope this Gunmen talk is a lot of BS and not a sign that
the boys at 1013 have completely lost their minds.
If David is busy promoting his film then I'd rather have 1013 wait a week
and show a re-run or two.
Unbound I
>
>
>"Thomas R. Walker" <tom...@ibm.net> writes:
>
>>I think it's likely that eps 19-22 are going to be shown out of
>>production order. I've seen earlier rumors that episode 19 was going to
>>be another Lone Gunmen episode, probably written by Vince.
>
>This is the most plausible scenario but frankly, what the hell do we need
>another Gunmen episode for? They're getting their own show and I see
>absolutely no point in wasting priceless episode time on their trivial
>shenanigans. I hope this Gunmen talk is a lot of BS and not a sign that
>the boys at 1013 have completely lost their minds.
>
>If David is busy promoting his film then I'd rather have 1013 wait a week
>and show a re-run or two.
>
>------
>Konrad Frye
>
>
>
not really interested in seeing another one. Now a Krycek episode, or even a
Skinner one, would interest me. But with time running out on this series,
watching the LG again doesn't hold much appeal for me.
Unbound I
Thomas R. Walker
Konrad Douglas Frye wrote:
> "Thomas R. Walker" <tom...@ibm.net> writes:
>
> >I think it's likely that eps 19-22 are going to be shown out of
> >production order. I've seen earlier rumors that episode 19 was going to
> >be another Lone Gunmen episode, probably written by Vince.
>
> This is the most plausible scenario but frankly, what the hell do we need
> another Gunmen episode for? They're getting their own show and I see
> absolutely no point in wasting priceless episode time on their trivial
> shenanigans. I hope this Gunmen talk is a lot of BS and not a sign that
> the boys at 1013 have completely lost their minds.
>
> If David is busy promoting his film then I'd rather have 1013 wait a week
> and show a re-run or two.
Well, on the plus side both the lead actors should be well-rested going into
the all-important finale episode. I wonder if episode 22 does turn out to be
the series finale whether CC will do things like shoot alternate scenes to
throw off spoiler folks and entertainment magazine rumor hounds. I know he's
claimed he would do that in the past, but never really seemed to do so. If
it's the real finale, however, I could see them going that route. Perhaps
also have all the recurring actors come to the lot, even if they won't
actually be used, etc.
On a related note, if they did shoot alternate scenes, how many people would
pay for an X-Files Special Edition DVD/videotape that included the alternate
scenes, especially if those scenes dealt more directly with the M/S
relationship than the "official" version that airs in May? And no, I don't
work for FOX marketing.
Tom W.
swikstr
> My one question is this: If they wanted to do a stand-alone without M&S (or
> with them in minor roles), why choose another Lone Gunmen episode? I had heard
> rumblings of a Krycek episode this year and believe that would be an
> interesting way to go.
Not only interesting, but sensible. I can't claim to be a overly focused
Krycek fan, but I like the character and what he's brought to the series so
far. Having an episode that addresses some of the bigger mysteries
surrounding his past and his motivations would be welcome with so little
time left to go (I hope). We had that with the Gunmen in "Unusual
Suspects" and also with Skinner to a degree in "SR 819" and some other of
his miscellaneous appearances in eps like "One Breath," etc, etc.
Fanfic writers have been doing a bang-up (no pun, really <g>) job with
Krycek for a while now. I'd be curious to know 1013's spin on the subject.
Somehow though, I suspect this will be another road not taken....
-swik
Interested in an alt.tv.* newsgroup for ROSWELL?
Go to http://bullpen.simplenet.com for more information....
--
"You mean you busted out."
"I prefer to think of it as an exodus from an undesirable place."
-- Jack Foley and Hijira Henry,
from "Out of Sight"
Unbound I
>
>Unbound I wrote:
>
>
>> My one question is this: If they wanted to do a stand-alone without M&S
>(or
>> with them in minor roles), why choose another Lone Gunmen episode? I had
>heard
>> rumblings of a Krycek episode this year and believe that would be an
>> interesting way to go.
>
>Not only interesting, but sensible. I can't claim to be a overly focused
>Krycek fan, but I like the character and what he's brought to the series so
>far. Having an episode that addresses some of the bigger mysteries
>surrounding his past and his motivations would be welcome with so little
>time left to go (I hope). We had that with the Gunmen in "Unusual
>Suspects" and also with Skinner to a degree in "SR 819" and some other of
>his miscellaneous appearances in eps like "One Breath," etc, etc.
>
>Fanfic writers have been doing a bang-up (no pun, really <g>) job with
>Krycek for a while now. I'd be curious to know 1013's spin on the subject.
>
>Somehow though, I suspect this will be another road not taken....
>
>
>-swik
>
>
>
we're getting a LG episode that we really don't need. To me, if I'm planning a
stand-alone without M&S, I think a Krycek episode is the obvious way to go. And
I have to believe there are a lot of possibilities that would make it work
wonderfully.
Unbound I
Chevrefoil
>"Thomas R. Walker" <tom...@ibm.net> writes:
>
>>I think it's likely that eps 19-22 are going to be shown out of
>>production order. I've seen earlier rumors that episode 19 was going to
>>be another Lone Gunmen episode, probably written by Vince.
>
>This is the most plausible scenario but frankly, what the hell do we need
>another Gunmen episode for? They're getting their own show and I see
>absolutely no point in wasting priceless episode time on their trivial
>shenanigans.
Spoiler space for the truly virginal
Especially since episode 16 is Scullylite, to allow GA time to prep for her
episode, which is supposedly Mulderlite to give DD time to prep for *his*
episode, which is apparently Skinnercentric. Throw a Gunmen ep into the mix and
we're down to three episodes. If these are, in fact, mythology eps that
probably means M&S will spend much, if not most, of their time apart, as per
mytharc formula.
Chev
LDoone1
>Carter and Spotnitz have been the dominant forces behind the show's
>mythology since the second season. I find it hard to believe that they'd
>turn over the reins to Mr. Gilligan if episodes 20, 21, and 22 do in fact
>form a three part series finale.
Hasn't Vince been involved in other multi-part, mythic-related episodes such as
Christmas Carol/Emily and Leonard Betts/Memento Mori? I don't think it's
impossible that they would turn over the duties of a three part story to him,
especially if Carter and Spotnitz are busy with TLG pilot.
>If Vince's episode is a standalone, how can 1013 possibly bring this
>show to a conclusion in a single episode (even if it is 2 hours long ala
>the finales to STTNG or DS9)?
Of course, I think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Carter is going to
bring much of ANYTHING to a real conclusion. He hasn't shown much of a
concern about tying up loose ends...even when he SAYS he's tying up loose ends.
<g>
There's also the pure, unadulterated fact that Carter's idea of what
constitutes a conclusion and what the rest of see as a conclusion can be at
least two (and very possibly many more) entirely different things. ;)
I think this tendency we've seen, in the last half of this season to permit the
actors to write and direct, and to let a writer who hasn't directed yet take a
shot at it, is clearly an attemp on Carter's part to reward these people for
their very hard work. At this point, I think they really don't know about an
eighth season, but if there isn't going to be one, I can't imagine that Carter
would have a problem with Vince writing and directing a story that they've all
probably assisted in developing.
Lorna
LDo...@aol.com
Deborah
Unbound I <unbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000220140655...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
> Boy Deborah, you really are down on TXF aren't you? <g>.
It's true this season and it really bothers me. Every week I watch thinking
this will be the episode that turns me around, but even when I find myself
finding some enjoyment in the ep while it's airing, it only takes a few
hours for all the things that irk me to come bubbling to the top.
I'm sorry I'm so negative this season--on a lot of levels. I watched Milagro
again last night and it seemed like the good old days (Milagro was one of my
favorites last season). I haven't loved one episode this season the way I
did Milagro, Tithonus, Field Trip, Monday or The Unnatural. Amor Fati came
the closest. So, please take everything I say with the crumudgeon's grain of
salt. I keep thinking I'll snap out of it.
OK, here's the way
> I see it--I don't need, nor do I want, some pat, everything gets fixed at
the
> end resolution to this series.
I know that isn't personally directed at me, but if it were :o) I'd have to
say, that's not what I'm asking for. I just want some of my faith restored,
my faith in Carter's creativity and talent, and most of all that he still
really cares about the show. Most of this season has just been flat to me.
No suspense and no character development to speak of. And the religious turn
that so many of the eps have taken (6E, Millennium, Orison, S&W, SUZ,
Closure) has really turned me off. I can't tell you how I hated to see the
sentimental Walk-in, little ghostie children playing skiprope in the foggy
blue netherworld resolution to Samantha's mystery. If I want that kind of
resolution, I'll start watching Touched By An Angel (not). As soon as they
started talking about starlight I felt like I needed and insulin shot. The
only part that came near to touching me was Mulder reading Sam's journal and
that was just DD's acting--not the writing.
I know a lot of you really liked this episode and I mean no disprespect. We
each bring our personal baggage to this series. To me it seemed Carter caved
into sentimentality. Mulder says he's free at the end--well if he were
really free, the series would be over--another attempt at misdirection by
Carter. There has been some talk about how learning about Samantha's fate
will change Mulder--my guess, it won't. It won't be acknowledged any more
than Scully's kill shot on Pfaster unless they work it into the end of the
series.
And if CSM gets a tearful rewrite where he is in some way redeemed, or dies
with less than a sneer and a curse, I'm burining my tapes. (Well maybe not
all of them). I want the murderous bastard to go out as evilly and cruelly
as his character deserves--and if there is one more turnaround on whether
he's Mulder's father or not, I'll just puke. He may have been Sam's Dad,
maybe, but he damn well better not be Mulder's father. Actually it'd be
great if that brain matter they transplanted in his head caught fire.
>I think CC has to realize that the MSR must be addressed and I do believe
it will
> be in the three-part finale.
You are a very optimistic fellow and I hope you are right. That would knock
my socks off. I hope I'm wrong, wrong, wrong and that all my fears and dread
are unfounded. You know I think what I wanted was just a little proof that
our belief in the subtext is justified. I know many of you feel you have
that proof. I used to believe it, back in the days of Milagro for certain,
but my faith is waning. There's a hollowness to this season and all the
layers I used to see are missing.
snip
> Again, I don't see this happening since there are no guarantees there
will
> be a film series.
That's true and the way TXF has been going I'm beginning to think there
definitely won't be one--so CC better make the best of what time he has left
to send this series off in a blaze of glory instead of whimper obscured by
fog.
snip
> Maybe I'm being naive here, but I really believe 1013 is going to come
up with something special in the final 3-parter (assuming there is no season
8 of course).
> Unbound I
>From your mouth to God's ear, or CC's ear (as the God of the TXF universe).
I just don't see a Season 8 in the future. Unless DD's fortunes have
reversed or he's suddenly changed his mind, I don't see him re-signing. GA
wants out, and even though she's contracted for another year, I don't want
to see it if she's forced. I think CC better put everything he has into the
2 or 3 part season ender. There may be no tomorrow for him.
Deborah
Helena Bowles
ponyp...@earthlink.net wrote in message
<38ABD204...@earthlink.net>...
>
>Thank you most heartily for your "essay"! Fabulously articulate, clearly
>thought out, addressed my issues with the "lack of continuity" in the
>show and put all into a more proper perspective. (Though what happened
>to the alien craft off the African coast is still bothering me. I have a
>feeling that's being saved for a second film...)
Thankyou for your kind words. And yes there are certainly things I think
*should* be looked at again. I don't think I'll ever forgive them for their
cavalier disregard of Scully's ova...
HELENA
>
Konrad Douglas Frye
>Especially since episode 16 is Scullylite, to allow GA time to prep for
>her episode, which is supposedly Mulderlite to give DD time to prep for
>*his* episode, which is apparently Skinnercentric. Throw a Gunmen ep into
>the mix and we're down to three episodes. If these are, in fact,
>mythology eps that probably means M&S will spend much, if not most, of
>their time apart, as per mytharc formula.
My impressions based on what I've read are essentially the same as yours:
7x14 - What sounds like a rather uninspired MOTW. *Nobody's* talking about
this one with any kind of excitement.
7x15 - WBD's episode. Mulder lite.
7x16 - David Amann's episode. Scully lite.
7x17 - GA's episode. Mulder lite.
7x18 - DD's episode. Mulder lite. Humourous look at AD Skinner?
7x21 - Gunmen-centric?
It's almost as if there's a conscious effort underway to sabotage the last
half of the season. If I didn't see this unfolding before my very eyes I
wouldn't believe it was happening.
I hope some of these episodes turn out ok but the chances of that
happening seem slim. Episodes that focus on one side of the partnership
almost always seem to disappoint :(
Numue99
7x14 - What sounds like a rather uninspired MOTW. *Nobody's* talking about
this one with any kind of excitement.
7x15 - WBD's episode. Mulder lite.
7x16 - David Amann's episode. Scully lite.
7x17 - GA's episode. Mulder lite.
7x18 - DD's episode. Mulder lite. Humourous look at AD Skinner?
7x21 - Gunmen-centric?
It's almost as if there's a conscious effort underway to sabotage the last
half of the season. If I didn't see this unfolding before my very eyes I
wouldn't believe it was happening.
I hope some of these episodes turn out ok but the chances of that
happening seem slim. Episodes that focus on one side of the partnership
almost always seem to disappoint :(
>>>
It's as if they are intentionally trying to remove M&S as an issue to be
resolved. They are being distanced--becoming more individuals and less
partners. The specific spoilers for Ep. 16 are especially troubling as far as
the MSR is concerned. When Scully's away the Mulder will play? Yes, yes.... We
have to see HOW it will play, but the very fact that they raise that
possibility this late in the game is telling....
Cheryl Deering
Konrad wrote:
> <<<
> 7x14 - What sounds like a rather uninspired MOTW. *Nobody's* talking about
> this one with any kind of excitement.
>
Bummer. I was hoping Gibson would pull another one out of the hat--:(.
>
> 7x15 - WBD's episode. Mulder lite.
>
> 7x16 - David Amann's episode. Scully lite.
>
> 7x17 - GA's episode. Mulder lite.
>
> 7x18 - DD's episode. Mulder lite. Humourous look at AD Skinner?
>
> 7x21 - Gunmen-centric?
>
> It's almost as if there's a conscious effort underway to sabotage the last
> half of the season. If I didn't see this unfolding before my very eyes I
> wouldn't believe it was happening.
>
Nunue99 replied:
> It's as if they are intentionally trying to remove M&S as an issue to be
> resolved. They are being distanced--becoming more individuals and less
> partners. The specific spoilers for Ep. 16 are especially troubling as far as
> the MSR is concerned. When Scully's away the Mulder will play? Yes, yes.... We
> have to see HOW it will play, but the very fact that they raise that
> possibility this late in the game is telling....
I think you guys are overanalyzing this, actually--g! One gets the feeling
1013 just wants to finish out the season (and the show), preferably
as easily and quickly as possible. Why put extra effort in getting things
right when things have been so screwed on narrative-wise for a long time?
C.
**
Konrad Douglas Frye
>Konrad wrote:
>> <<<
>> 7x14 - What sounds like a rather uninspired MOTW. *Nobody's* talking about
>> this one with any kind of excitement.
>>
>Bummer. I was hoping Gibson would pull another one out of the hat--:(.
Gibson wrote 7x13 'First Person Shooter'. It airs next. 7x14 is called
'Theef'. It's another John Gillnitz offering.
Like 'Kill Switch', 'FPS' is a little more far fetched than your regular
X-Files episode. <g>
Cheryl Deering
Konrad Douglas Frye wrote:
> Cheryl Deering <dee...@primenet.com> writes:
>
> >Konrad wrote:
>
> >> 7x14 - What sounds like a rather uninspired MOTW. *Nobody's* talking about
> >> this one with any kind of excitement.
> >>
>
> >Bummer. I was hoping Gibson would pull another one out of the hat--:(.
>
> Gibson wrote 7x13 'First Person Shooter'. It airs next.
Thank goodness. I stand corrected--g!
> 7x14 is called
> 'Theef'. It's another John Gillnitz offering.
>
(groan) Which usually means it will tap out to being
mediocre work from Spotnitz/Shiban--and "Damm,
gotta keep these two afloat even if it is sinking me"
not-great work from Gilligan. . .:P
> Like 'Kill Switch', 'FPS' is a little more far fetched than your regular
> X-Files episode. <g>
If it is at least as smart or fun as KS, that will be something. One has
learned to hold all-out anticipation in check often with this show, though--g!
C.
**
Michele Jackson
Konrad Douglas Frye wrote:
>
>
> This is the most plausible scenario but frankly, what the hell do we need
> another Gunmen episode for? They're getting their own . . .
Well, I guess THAT's why we're getting another LGM episode here,
as a promo for their own. That's how most viewers wanted to
spend the last episodes of the series right? Launching spinoffs
for other shows? Michele
swikstr
>It's almost as if there's a conscious effort underway to sabotage the last
>half of the season. If I didn't see this unfolding before my very eyes I
>wouldn't believe it was happening.
You really think so? To me, it seems more like 1013 is giving everybody a
chance to tell their own version of the story now that time is running out.
That may play hell with continuity, but I can see why it's being done.
>I hope some of these episodes turn out ok but the chances of that
>happening seem slim. Episodes that focus on one side of the partnership
>almost always seem to disappoint :(
Well, "The Unnatural" is almost universally mentioned as one of the top episodes
of S.6. DD wrote and directed it, and it was Mulder/Scully lite. Who knows at
this point if his next effort won't be even better, or that Gillian's will at
least be equally as good.
The problem is that we have all these kinds of eps coming through the pipe one
right after the other -- which is typical of 1013's usual FUBAR-type planning.
Extex1013
>with less than a sneer and a curse, I'm burining my tapes.
Hey I have been telling ya'll for the past 6 years you are all being taken for
suckers.
You kept up the battle cry of there is one more year ,there is one more year.
All our prayers will be answered.
Well guess what unless there is a miricle this is it and nothing ,I repeat
nothing, will be resolved with anyone being satisifed.
I fully expect CSM to be a good guy (never mind all the horrible thing we have
seen him do,never mind he tried to kill Mulder in Anasazi,never mind he set
loose those bees on innocent schoolchildren ,we just misunderstood all that we
have seen over the last 7 years.)
I expect Skinner to be a bad guy (Throw away the One Beath speech,the fight
with X that saved M's life,the beatings,the framing for murder,him getting shot
trying to help Scully find Melissa killer ,being infected with Nanites and
tortured by Krycek when he tried to help Scully,being killed by Krycek then
brought back to life,the guy is bad. We have never seen that in 7 years but
what the heck that doesn't matter now.
Krycek, he will be the hero of it all despite the countless acts of violence
and all the horrible acts we have seen him commit.He was just misunderstood,we
just didn't understand what we saw.
Thats the way this show will end.It will destroy 7 years of what we saw and
knew and replace it with 3 episodesof revisionist history that will piss off 90
% of us out there that have watched this show from season one.
It will be an insult to everything we have seen and know and worse yet an
insult to our intelligence.
Thats the way this show will end.
extex
Magpie
Now we know how the cast of "Three's Company" felt when
their last shows were used to launch "Three's a Crowd."<g>
-m
--
The MulderGirls: We put the virtue in virtual reality.
It's not just a nickname, it's a website:
http://www.muldergirls.com/
Deborah
Extex1013 <exte...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000221101203...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
> >And if CSM gets a tearful rewrite where he is in some way redeemed, or
dies
> >with less than a sneer and a curse, I'm burining my tapes.
>
> Hey I have been telling ya'll for the past 6 years you are all being taken
for
> suckers.
But I haven't been unhappy till this year Extex and sucker though I may be,
I'm hoping for the best.
I still love a lot of S6, and S5 is one of my favorite seasons--so I don't
feel too bad.
Deborah