Mulder, not Fox
Nuan...@yahoo.com
We're all aware that Mulder dislikes hearing his first name. But, why do
members of the Consortium refer to him as Mulder. You would think their
previous working relationship with Mulder's Dad would require a "Mulder"
distinction.
Also, given Mulder's frustration over his father's gov't work, one would think
Fox would loathe his last name.
One final, random, thought. Anyone else think it's a little odd that CC
created a BILL Mulder and a BILL Scully?
Nuanda
"Laughing, crying, tumbling, mumbling, gotta do more, gotta be more."
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PennPart
created a BILL Mulder and a BILL Scully?>>
And a Fox WILLIAM Mulder???
Sue
Shulamit -
If coincidences are just coincidences, why do they feel so contrived?
Toni
>We're all aware that Mulder dislikes hearing his first name. But, why do
>members of the Consortium refer to him as Mulder. You would think their
>previous working relationship with Mulder's Dad would require a "Mulder"
>distinction.
>
>created a BILL Mulder and a BILL Scully?
>
And on that note, why is it when Mulder was so specific with Scully about
hating his first name, that EVERY OTHER WOMAN on the show gets to call him
Fox? He obviously didn't hate it so much when he met Phoebe, or Diana - Mrs
M has privilege rights, but Mrs S manages it - even the nurses in Kill
Switch got to use Fox! What goes on here??!!!
Toni
Alexa James
><<Anyone else think it's a little odd that CC
>created a BILL Mulder and a BILL Scully?>>
>
>And a Fox WILLIAM Mulder???
>
>Sue
>Shulamit -
>If coincidences are just coincidences, why do they feel so contrived?
>
Well, the William is obviously because of his father. I myself had my
father's name (well, the female version of it) as my middle name until
I changed it.
I liked the post someone wrote awhile back about how the use of Bill
for both fathers was deliberate. The gist of the analysis was that
Bill and Bill are two sides of the same coin - one who went down the
dark path of serving his country and one who went down the light one.
Alexa
Movilvr
>why is it when Mulder was so specific with Scully about
>hating his first name, that EVERY OTHER WOMAN on the show gets to call him
>Fox?
Well, for starters, it establishes his relationship with Scully as unique among
his relations with women. Mulder was the one who started calling Dana,
"Scully" (Pilot). Everyone else uses her first name. Those who enjoy a
special relationship with the two use their last names. For instance, The Lone
Gunmen.
Tammy
Alison Weinstock
mov...@aol.com (Movilvr) wrote:
I've also felt that when he flirts, as with Bambi the bug lady, or with
that woman in synchronicity, he is not *serious*. WE know he hates the
name, but those women don't even know that - it shows that he's not
serious.
But it does seem as though he DID use the name Fox earlier, since Diana
uses it. As for moms - they call you what they want to call you.
Alison
Alexa James
>
>I've also felt that when he flirts, as with Bambi the bug lady, or with
>that woman in synchronicity, he is not *serious*. WE know he hates the
>name, but those women don't even know that - it shows that he's not
>serious.
And it suggests that those relationships are only short term, since he
would be annoyed if someone called him Fox indefinitely.
Alexa
PennPart
<<I liked the post someone wrote awhile back about how the use of Bill
for both fathers was deliberate. The gist of the analysis was that
Bill and Bill are two sides of the same coin - one who went down the
dark path of serving his country and one who went down the light one.>>
Ooooh, ooooh, ALexa...see my post on Ma Mulder and Maggie Scully.... I said the
same thing about the mothers.... interesting. And are not Scully and Mulder
themselves two sides of the same coin....
Didn't Mulder almost steal that line from Jerry Maguire in FTF?.....something
about her completing him???
Nice thought...
Sue
Anne Marsden
PennPart wrote in message
<199809110333...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
This reminds me of something CC said. I can't possibly track down his
exact words, but it went something like this:
Interviewer: . . . and someone falls down a hole in the desert in the
beginning and someone falls down a hole in the ice near the end of the
movie.
CC: Yes, that's deliberate, and there's a lot more of those that people
didn't seem to 'get'.
It seems that CC does people as well as events in matching pairs, like
socks. I mean like two sides of the same coin. (Sorry, it's early.)
Anne 'I feel like a lost sock in the laundromat of oblivion' Marsden
(no relation to the 'Fire' Marsdens)
Coleen Sullivan-Baier
alexa...@nashville.com (Alexa James) wrote:
>On 10 Sep 1998 16:24:10 -0400, penn...@aol.com (PennPart) wrote:
>
>I liked the post someone wrote awhile back about how the use of Bill
>for both fathers was deliberate. The gist of the analysis was that
>Bill and Bill are two sides of the same coin - one who went down the
>dark path of serving his country and one who went down the light one.
Then there was BILL Patterson--the father figure, the mentor,and the TORmentor.
IMO, one of DD's greatest FACE moments was in "Grotesque", when he says to Patterson
"I'm glad I didn't disappoint you." A telling moment.
XXXXXXXXXXXgizzieXXXXXXXXXXXX
Coleen Sullivan-Baier
"Toni" <to...@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>And on that note, why is it when Mulder was so specific with Scully about
>hating his first name, that EVERY OTHER WOMAN on the show gets to call him
>Fox? He obviously didn't hate it so much when he met Phoebe, or Diana - Mrs
>M has privilege rights, but Mrs S manages it - even the nurses in Kill
>Switch got to use Fox! What goes on here??!!!
I NEVER thought Mulder hated his first name--I was not FOCUSED when I saw "Tooms", and I still
picked up that Mulder's crack about his name in The Conversation In The Car was just a way to
forstall whatever Scully was going to say. It was obvious from her demeanor that she was about to
spill her guts about something.
If that scene happened now, there'd be a bee in the car...
XXXXXXXXXXXXgizzieXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Magpie
Also, I think it says something about the woman in
Phoebe and Diana's case. I've met women in life
starting back in high school who "named" their
boyfriends almost as a brand of ownership. Ever
noticed that? Like, you've got a guy whose name
is Rob; everyone calls him Rob, you've never heard
him called anything else...but his girlfriend and
his mother call him "Robert". In Mulder's case it's
immediately a little immasculating, since we're not
used to it and, frankly, it's an odd name when
you're not used to it. Fox.
It seems like most of the agents use their
last names out of habit, since they're
introduced as "Agent So-and-So". I wouldn't be
surprised if Diana "got" something out of calling
Mulder Fox, esp. in front of a partner who doesn't
have Fox-privledges(<-spelling crisis!).
-m
Toni
<6tbvon$h...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>...
I NEVER thought Mulder hated his first name--I was not FOCUSED when I saw
"Tooms", and I still
>picked up that Mulder's crack about his name in The Conversation In The Car
was just a way to
>forstall whatever Scully was going to say. It was obvious from her
demeanor that she was about to
>spill her guts about something.
>
> If that scene happened now, there'd be a bee in the car...
Ah but that's the point - (must stay focused :) - he was extremely specific
about the name "I even made my parents call me Mulder, Mulder" (not that
that happens either); and as a deflection it doesn't work too well, since
Scully simply takes a deep breath and starts again "Mulder, ..."
I don't really buy the views that 'the other women' are relegated to
non-important status by his allowing them to use his first name. Mulder
calls Scully 'Dana' when he has something important or sensitive to say -
it's not a matter of them having 'pet' names for each other, not to mention
that everyone else calls him Mulder except the ladies. I think it's just one
of those things that the writers ended up forgetting about, and whenever a
new chickadee comes onto the show, she's awarded first name rights by virtue
of having a personal (as opposed to professional) relationship with Mulder.
Just my tuppence worth ...
Toni
Julia Milton
<6tban1$42j$1...@usenet46.supernews.com>...
> This reminds me of something CC said. I can't possibly track down his
> exact words, but it went something like this:
>
> Interviewer: . . . and someone falls down a hole in the desert in the
> beginning and someone falls down a hole in the ice near the end of the
> movie.
>
> CC: Yes, that's deliberate, and there's a lot more of those that people
> didn't seem to 'get'.
>
> It seems that CC does people as well as events in matching pairs, like
> socks. I mean like two sides of the same coin. (Sorry, it's early.)
Ahh ...
Surfer! Surfer! burning bright
In the forests of the [until recently, B.C.] night
What immortal hand or eye
Can frame thy fearful symmetry?
.... Your own, obviously.
-- Julia
(with wholly insincere apologies to John Donne)
Julia Milton
<01bdde14$dfa533e0$d40767d1@default>...
> Surfer! Surfer! burning bright
> In the forests of the [until recently, B.C.] night
> What immortal hand or eye
> Can frame thy fearful symmetry?
>
> .... Your own, obviously.
>
> -- Julia
> (with wholly insincere apologies to John Donne)
Especially as I should REALLY have apologized to William Blake ...
D-oh!
=========
<Exit Julia with red face>
GeoRed
<giz...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> I NEVER thought Mulder hated his first name--I was not FOCUSED when I saw
>"Tooms", and I still
>picked up that Mulder's crack about his name in The Conversation In The Car
>was just a way to
>forstall whatever Scully was going to say. It was obvious from her demeanor
>that she was about to
>spill her guts about something.
Extremely good point.
This is another "eidetic memory" moment. People took that literally when it
may have been another crack from a man chock full of cracks.
Heidi
::::::::with head in hands, rocking slowly::::::::::
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter."
<Mulder: He's not just lean.......he's cuisine.>
Toni
>In article <6tbvon$h...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, Coleen Sullivan-Baier
><giz...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
>> I NEVER thought Mulder hated his first name--I was not FOCUSED when I saw
>>"Tooms", and I still
>>picked up that Mulder's crack about his name in The Conversation In The
Car
>>was just a way to
>>forstall whatever Scully was going to say. It was obvious from her
demeanor
>>that she was about to
>>spill her guts about something.
>
>Extremely good point.
>
>This is another "eidetic memory" moment. People took that literally when
it
>may have been another crack from a man chock full of cracks.
>
>Heidi
Er-hem ... well not that good a point, since a) in Tooms, she took a breath
and continued to 'spill her guts', b) Melissa's first words to Mulder are
'I've been told not to call you Fox' and c) at the end of One Breath, Scully
also corrects Maggie S. about his name in front of him - presumably because
the writers considered it important, rather than Scully making a mistake
about the importance of it.
However, on the eidetic memory crack you might be right - there's masses on
it in the fanfic but I can't recall too much mentioned in the series
itself - can anyone else?
Toni
GeoRed
writes:
>Er-hem ... well not that good a point, since a) in Tooms, she took a breath
>and continued to 'spill her guts',
So, it didn't work. Much to Mulder chagrin.
> b) Melissa's first words to Mulder are
>'I've been told not to call you Fox' and
She was channeling *Scully*....the person the comment was made to.
>c) at the end of One Breath, Scully
>also corrects Maggie S. about his name in front of him - presumably because
>the writers considered it important, rather than Scully making a mistake
>about the importance of it.
Again, continuity for Scully. He tells her this and she repeats it to everyone
she knows......to protect him, I guess. He just never comes out and says, "Ah
Scully, I was just saying that to prevent you getting close to me."
>However, on the eidetic memory crack you might be right - there's masses on
>it in the fanfic but I can't recall too much mentioned in the series
>itself - can anyone else?
Nope, only that one time. He does have a very good memory (i.e. reciting
passages of Scully's Senior thesis in that time travel episode whose title I
have blocked from my memory...4th season) and has shown that several times.
But lots of people do.....including Scully.
Magpie
>In article <6tbvon$h...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, Coleen Sullivan-Baier
><giz...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
I NEVER thought Mulder hated his first name--I was not FOCUSED when I saw
>>"Tooms", and I still
>>picked up that Mulder's crack about his name in The Conversation In The Car
>>was just a way to
>>forstall whatever Scully was going to say. It was obvious from her demeanor
>>that she was about to
>>spill her guts about something.
>
>Extremely good point.
>
>This is another "eidetic memory" moment. People took that literally when it
>may have been another crack from a man chock full of cracks.
So what does everybody think about the two times Mulder
has called Scully "Dana"? In "One Breath" he tries to
comfort her when she comes back to work beginning with,
"Dana..." and Scully mouths "Dana?" as if to say, "Oh
God, no. Not Dana. Anything but that."
And then in "Bad Blood"...well there Mulder's teasing her
for letting a buck-toothed sheriff call her that in her
imagination. Are there any other "Dana's" I'm forgetting?
Wow, these two really have saddled each other with some
big complexes about using first names. And people
wonder why they can't bring themselves to kiss! :)
-m
Konrad Douglas Frye
Subject: Re: Mulder, not Fox...Scully, not Dana
References: <6tbvon$h...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <199809122202...@ladder01.news.aol.com> <35fda...@news1.ibm.net>
In <35fda...@news1.ibm.net> Magpie <bel...@ibm.net> writes:
>So what does everybody think about the two times Mulder
>has called Scully "Dana"? In "One Breath" he tries to
>comfort her when she comes back to work beginning with,
>"Dana..." and Scully mouths "Dana?" as if to say, "Oh
>God, no. Not Dana. Anything but that."
That episode was 'Beyond the Sea' and I think her reaction was partly one
of surprise at the use of her first name. It also seemed like she wanted to
avoid an emotional heart to heart conversation and was afraid that
Mulder's use of her first name was a prelude to one. I don't think Mulder's
use of her first name bothers her, it's just that after five years it
seems a little out of place.
Off the top of my head I'd list 'Lazarus' and 'The Field Where I
Died' as episodes where Mulder has used "Dana" instead of "Scully". I
suppose you could add 'Tempus Fugit' and his rendition of Happy Birthday
if you wanted to stretch things a bit.
-----
Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
Computer Engineering IV
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Life...is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless,
perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for". - Cancer Man -
"Keep going FBI woman" - Fox Mulder -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexa James
>Died' as episodes where Mulder has used "Dana" instead of "Scully". I
>suppose you could add 'Tempus Fugit' and his rendition of Happy Birthday
>if you wanted to stretch things a bit.
>
>-----
>Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
And he calls her Dana when he talks about her to her family. Off to
top of my head: In Wetired, when he calls Mrs. Scully on the phone,
he asks if she's seen Dana. And he refers to her as Dana, I believe,
when he talks to the adoption person during Emily.
Alexa
Magpie
>>Off the top of my head I'd list 'Lazarus' and 'The Field Where I
>>Died' as episodes where Mulder has used "Dana" instead of "Scully". I
>>suppose you could add 'Tempus Fugit' and his rendition of Happy Birthday
>>if you wanted to stretch things a bit.
>
>And he calls her Dana when he talks about her to her family. Off to
>top of my head: In Wetired, when he calls Mrs. Scully on the phone,
>he asks if she's seen Dana. And he refers to her as Dana, I believe,
>when he talks to the adoption person during Emily.
I think it's a little different when he refers to her
as Dana to other people. He does usually acknowledge
that Scully is really his own nickname for her. It would
be rude to call her that to a stranger or to her family--
can you imagine Bill Scully Jr.'s reaction if he called
her Scully to him?? (Does Scully call him Fox when
speaking to Mrs. M? In my head I hear her referring
to him as "your son" more than anything else.)
But it's a little different when he calls her that to her
face. In Beyond the Sea I think Scully reacts as much
to the sudden use of her first name as she does to M's
awkwardness at using it. He's using it because he feels
like he should, since this is a Serious Moment. As a
matter of fact, she uses "Fox" a little awkwardly on the
stakeout when he makes his joke about even his parents
calling him Fox.
Sadly, I don't know where I'm going
with this...I guess it's just another delicate part of
the M&S dynamic that they have their own language. Like
in French they use a formal and familiar form of "You"
(and English-speakers used to use "you" and "thou"), M&S
use formal and familiar names...but the familiar name
is used formally, at least to Mulder, who
made up the language.
-m
Keith
>So what does everybody think about the two times Mulder
>has called Scully "Dana"? In "One Breath" he tries to
>comfort her when she comes back to work beginning with,
>"Dana..." and Scully mouths "Dana?" as if to say, "Oh
>God, no. Not Dana. Anything but that."
>
>for letting a buck-toothed sheriff call her that in her
>imagination. Are there any other "Dana's" I'm forgetting?
>
>Wow, these two really have saddled each other with some
>big complexes about using first names. And people
>wonder why they can't bring themselves to kiss! :)
He calls her Dana in 'Beyond the Sea' too. She seems embarrassed by it.
I always thought that was the reason why when she first calls him Fox
(in Tooms) he makes a big show of asking her not to by saying that even
his parents called him 'Mulder' (which, as we subsequently discover is
downright lie!)
Keith
ROSA AURORA MARTINEZ RANGEL
raptors call Mulder trhough her cell phone and he asks her: Dana, are you
all right?......Of course she answers NOO.
How could she be when she's being held captive by the guy impersonating her
ex-lover and his mistress???
I love answering and asking trivia questions about the show, so if you have
any....SHOOOT THEM!!!!