Scully's Ova (Spoilers)
P.A. Berman
believed that Mulder is the father of her child. Personally, I sincerely
hope he is-- the other possibilities are rather disturbing. I'm trying to
figure out, therefore, exactly how Scully's fertility was returned to her.
First, can we safely assume that she truly was barren by "One Breath"? She
would have gotten it all checked out, I'd imagine. Now, what exactly
happened to her ovaries?
From"Memento Mori":
HYBRID: During her abduction, high application radiation procedure which
caused superovulation.
MULDER: Why?
HYBRID: For fertilization. They constitute one half of the necessary raw
materials.
MULDER: For genetic hybridization, or reproduction. These women, these women
are your birth mothers.
HYBRID: Barren now, from the same procedure that caused their cancer. And
now they're left to die, their conditions hastened by the men running this
project.
OK, so the same procedure that caused the superovulation caused her cancer.
According to the Kurt Crawford, the procedure that harvested all those ova
made her barren. If she has intact ovaries but no ova in them, would she
menstruate? If not, then any change in her fertility would quickly become
obvious to her, b/c she'd get her period after 5 years of not getting it.
We know that Scully's cancer was healed by the return of her chip in Redux
II. Is that when she became fertile again? Or was it when CSM messed with
her in En Ami? If she became fertile again, wouldn't she menstruate, and
perhaps know that something had changed? I'm hoping someone out there has a
greater grasp of the human reproductive system can explain this.
It worries me to think that Scully is pregnant by an implant from CSM, but I
think it's a strong possibility. Either way, I'm sure Scully thinks it's
Mulder's, and that she'll get an amnio as soon as she can.
-pab-
Numue99
menstruate? If not, then any change in her fertility would quickly become
obvious to her, b/c she'd get her period after 5 years of not getting it.>>>
The whole thing never made any sense from the beginning, because the viability
of ova is what produces the hormones that make one menstruate. From the Ms.
Guide to Womens' Health: "Ovarian follicles are the clusters of cells
surrounding the eggs in each ovary. The cells of these follicles are the major
producers of estrogen and progeterone." When those ova die their natural deaths
at the time of natural menopause, estrogen drops off and menstruation
eventually ceases. So, if Scully did, indeed, have all of her ova removed, she
would have gone into instantaneous menopause, something that would be a
physiological nightmare without hormone replacement. So, I don't understand how
they're going to address this without making themselves seem stupid. Scully
surely would have known if she had gone into sudden menopause, unless the chip
has some capacity to replace those hormones. Even then, once Mulder told her
that she had no eggs, she would have wondered why she was still menstruating
and had no other signs of menopause.
Sharon
jason chau
On 23 May 2000, Numue99 wrote:
> eventually ceases. So, if Scully did, indeed, have all of her ova removed, she
> would have gone into instantaneous menopause, something that would be a
> physiological nightmare without hormone replacement. So, I don't understand how
> they're going to address this without making themselves seem stupid. Scully
> surely would have known if she had gone into sudden menopause, unless the chip
> has some capacity to replace those hormones. Even then, once Mulder told her
> that she had no eggs, she would have wondered why she was still menstruating
> and had no other signs of menopause.
>
>
How do you know that Scully didn't have menopause? She did afterall in
CC/Emily knew that she was infertile before Mulder told her about her
eggs. She could have assumed that her infertility was due to the extensive
chemotherapy she went through because of her cancer.
PennySyc
>If she has intact ovaries but no ova in them, would she
>menstruate? If not, then any change in her fertility would quickly become
>obvious to her, b/c she'd get her period after 5 years of not getting it.
It is possible to experience a return to fertility BEFORE a return to
menstruation, e.g. post-partum. It happened to me: no period, but two babies
twelve months apart.
So Scully could have become pregnant without ever knowing her fertility had
returned.
Leslie
Numue99
CC/Emily knew that she was infertile before Mulder told her about her
eggs. She could have assumed that her infertility was due to the extensive
chemotherapy she went through because of her cancer.
She presumably had her eggs removed way before the cancer. Her periods would
have stopped, and there would have been other drastic physiological changes too
bothersome to ignore. Normally, menopause occurs gradually. However, the sudden
absence of these hormones would be a complete shock to a woman's system.
P.A. Berman
> menstruation, e.g. post-partum. It happened to me: no period, but two
babies
> twelve months apart.
>
> So Scully could have become pregnant without ever knowing her fertility
had
> returned.
OK, I'll buy that, but it would mean that her ovaries recovered from the
"superovulation" that led to her barrenness. Mulder says in "Emily" that
she lost all of her ova, so either she regenerated them somehow or they
weren't really all gone, just suppressed in some way. You would think that
she would have had that checked out, so I have to assume they were gone.
I guess my theory is that the microchip in her neck is responsible for some
regeneration, somehow. That leads directly to CSM any way you slice it.
Could he truly be trying to help M&S? Or is there some deep, evil motive?
-pab-
jason chau
On 23 May 2000, Numue99 wrote:
I'm arguing on your question of; Shouldn't Scully have known she was
infertile because menopause would have happened.
She could have known after the abduction, but they CC didn't tell us. I
just pointed out that Scully already knew herself that she was infertile
(pointed out in CC/Emily).
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto
<num...@aol.com> wrote:
>The whole thing never made any sense from the beginning, because the viability
>of ova is what produces the hormones that make one menstruate.
>would have gone into instantaneous menopause, something that would be a
>physiological nightmare without hormone replacement.
More of a nightmare than being in a coma, dying from her blood being
clogged with branch DNA fragments? I mean, it was not exactly the only
thing that was going on with her physically at the time.
I can easily imagine her not thinking anything of her menstrual cycle
being slow to return after her physical ordeal, then going to a GYN to
be checked out after a few months, several more months of testing and
diagnosis, leading to the understanding that she was no longer
ovulating...leading to her telling her mother in "Christmas Carol" that
she had found out some time back that because of what had been done to
her, she was not able to conceive a child.
I'm not sure why this is supposed to be a problem.
--
Morning people may be respected, but night people are feared.
lynx
> We know that Scully's cancer was healed by the return of her chip in Redux
> II. Is that when she became fertile again? Or was it when CSM messed with
> her in En Ami? If she became fertile again, wouldn't she menstruate, and
> perhaps know that something had changed? I'm hoping someone out there has a
> greater grasp of the human reproductive system can explain this.
I'm not addressing her initial infertility - but for its return. If CSM
tweaked her chip in En Ami - and she slept with Mulder in all things -
then she might have gotten pregnant on the first ovulation.
> It worries me to think that Scully is pregnant by an implant from CSM, but I
> think it's a strong possibility. Either way, I'm sure Scully thinks it's
> Mulder's, and that she'll get an amnio as soon as she can.
yup
--
lynx
mulderite HPotMMs
"But you *believed* me..."
Goo Bee Goo Bee Do
Numue99
infertile because menopause would have happened.
She could have known after the abduction, but they CC didn't tell us. I
just pointed out that Scully already knew herself that she was infertile
(pointed out in CC/Emily).
>>>
Infertility is one thing, but it is totally not normal for a 30-year-old woman
to go through menopause. She might have assumed the abduction had something to
do with it but, if she did, Mulder's revelation wouldn't have been a
revelation. What I'm saying is that she would have sought out some explanation
for her completely abnormal condition.
Numue99
clogged with branch DNA fragments? I mean, it was not exactly the only
thing that was going on with her physically at the time.
I can easily imagine her not thinking anything of her menstrual cycle
being slow to return after her physical ordeal, then going to a GYN to
be checked out after a few months, several more months of testing and
diagnosis, leading to the understanding that she was no longer
ovulating...>>>
The point is that her periods would not return if all her eggs were taken,
because it's the eggs that produce the estrogen that makes one menstruate. And,
menopause is not just the cessation of menstruation. it comes with a host of
bodily signs. It can be troublesome when it happens gradually, but suddenly
would be impossible to ignore and potentiall dangerous. When women have their
ovaries removed before menopause they are put on hormone replacement
*immediately*.
Konrad Douglas Frye
>I guess my theory is that the microchip in her neck is responsible for
>some regeneration, somehow. That leads directly to CSM any way you slice
>it. Could he truly be trying to help M&S? Or is there some deep, evil
>motive?
Using the chip to explain Scully's sudden ability to conceive is 1013's
best bet at handling the rather sticky fertility issues that involved in
this particular storyline.
The aliens had no reason to impregnate her and if they had I don't see why
they'd have left the pregnancy to chance.
I don't see why the CSM would bother to impregnante her either. He
murdered his one son, tortured his daughter? and left his other son? to
die on an operating table in 'Amor Fati'. His "legacy" obviously isn't
all that important to him. By the time 'En Ami' rolled around he was
probably already aware that his "boys" couldn't cut it genetically. Raping
Dana Scully just seems like a waste of his time and contradicts the way he
was being portrayed in the episode.
As far as the IVF theory is concerned, it's not the sort of thing that
happens over night.
------
Konrad Frye (k f r y e @ e s c a p e . c a)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with the
bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Konrad Douglas Frye
> I'm arguing on your question of; Shouldn't Scully have known she was
>infertile because menopause would have happened. She could have known
>after the abduction, but they CC didn't tell us. I just pointed out that
>Scully already knew herself that she was infertile (pointed out in
>CC/Emily).
If premature menopause set in Scully would have known about it
immediately. The signs would be impossible to miss. Presumably the chip
does a lot of funky stuff with her hormones in order to keep menopause
from setting in.
As late as 'Home', Scully was still under the impression that she could
have children. To her, things must have been relatively "normal" as far
as her cycle was concerned. The problem I have is that she no longer had
the chip at that point. Perhaps there was some sort of residual effect or
perhaps her reproductive system had already started to "heal" itself
(albeit very, very slowly).
April L. Mowry
> The point is that her periods would not return if all her eggs were taken,
because it's the eggs that produce the estrogen that makes one menstruate.<
Hi Numue! I did just a little research on ovulation, from the way I
understand it, it's actually your pituitary gland that stimulates the
production or ripening of the ova, even with them giving her a
'superovulation' procedure only so many eggs are viable enough to complete
the process of being released.
Besides we only have Kurt Crawfords word that all her eggs were removed, we
don't have any proof. I'm sure her 'resources were depleted' though.
So as long as her pituitary was functioning correctely, I can't see any
reason for her to suspect a fertility problem until the cancer itself
occured, perhaps she found out her hormone levels were low, or her ovaries
scarred, or fallopian tubes blocked...any of these would have lead her to
her words to her mother in CC..."I am unable to concieve a child."
I think it was a total shock for her to hear from M about her ova being
removed, I don't think that ever crossed her mind, due to her mostly normal
cycle.
This fertility thing has me so curious I'm going to read as much as I can on
new and experimental ideas...April
Numue99
because it's the eggs that produce the estrogen that makes one menstruate.<
<<<Hi Numue! I did just a little research on ovulation, from the way I
understand it, it's actually your pituitary gland that stimulates the
production or ripening of the ova, even with them giving her a
'superovulation' procedure only so many eggs are viable enough to complete
the process of being released.>>>
Hi... Yes, the pituitary gland stimulates a hormone that makes the ova ripen,
but it's the ripening ova that produce estrogen and progesterone, which is what
causes menstruation. At menopause the ova stop being viable and no longer
respond to the pituitary gland, which continues secreting its hormone. The
reduction of estrogen and progesterone causes menstruation to eventually stop.
With hormone replacement, however, many women begin menstruating again,
although they are no longer fertile.
Maggie Helwig
> OK, I'll buy that, but it would mean that her ovaries recovered from the
> "superovulation" that led to her barrenness. Mulder says in "Emily" that
> she lost all of her ova, so either she regenerated them somehow or they
> weren't really all gone, just suppressed in some way. You would think that
> she would have had that checked out, so I have to assume they were gone.
We don't _know_ that the "superovulation" is what really happened. It's
what the Curts told Mulder, and what Mulder told the social workers
(Scully looked a bit incredulous at that point). All Scully ever said
was that she was infertile -- she never specifically explained why.
Maybe she had massive scarring of her fallopian tubes and uterus, and
the contact with the alien ship cured her. Maybe the chip was messing
with her hormones and CSM changed the settings. There are lots of
reasons she could be infertile, and she (the doctor) has never explained
to us exactly why she believes herself to be infertile.
maggie h
Jcomm Sue
> Mulder's, and that she'll get an amnio as soon as she can. >>
I had CVS (something or another villea sampling) done at 8 weeks. She may have
been referring to that test when she told Skinner that they were "running some
tests." How far along would she be at the point of Requiem? CVS could be done
as early as 7 weeks I think. I don't know if they are still running this test
or not. I know it was controversial.
Sue
S.L. Johnson
<NOkfr...@escape.ca> wrote:
>As late as 'Home', Scully was still under the impression that she could
>have children. To her, things must have been relatively "normal" as far
>as her cycle was concerned. The problem I have is that she no longer had
>the chip at that point. Perhaps there was some sort of residual effect or
>perhaps her reproductive system had already started to "heal" itself
>(albeit very, very slowly).
Y'know, even on first viewing, without the light of subsequent
developments, I felt that GA was projecting uneasiness during that
scene in Home. I felt struck with the idea that, given her exotic
medical history, Scully must've been wondering if she could safely
have children (I have no idea what the hell branched DNA is, but you
have to admit that it doesn't sound like it'd be a good thing to
reproduce after that.)
Regards,
Stephanie
--
S.L. Johnson
slj...@ma.ultranet.com
Brandon Ray
she was came from a Consortium employee. Such people have been known to lie --
he could even have just been mistaken. That would explain why she never
investigated the matter -- her cycle did NOT change, because she was still
ovulating.
And I would be a good amount of money that Scully would not have undergone
testing, if she "discovered" her infertility shortly after "Memento Mori" (which
seems to be the case -- she said in "Christmas Carol" that she found out "a few
months ago -- which probably means shortly after MM, and that in turn means
Mulder torld her what the Crawfords told him).
She wasn't involved with anyone, she wasn't trying to conceive a child, and she
WAS dying. It would be very upsetting news, but certainly not the MOST
upsetting health problem she was having. The tests, themselves, are
uncomfortable, expensive and not covered by insurance. They also have a
statistically significant possibility of making the woman infertile, if she
isn't already. So if she wasn't trying to conceive, and thought she was dying
-- why would she undergo that?
My point is that there is no conclusive evidence on the show that she was ever
actually infertile. We only know that an undependable source claimed it was so,
and that Mulder and Scully apparently believed him. And that's ALL the evidence
there is.
Maggie Helwig wrote:
--
Most of my first dates end with a restraining order -- Oscar, "Night Court"
==========================
I promise -- there are no restraining orders keeping you away from my fanfic:
http://www.avalon.net/~publius/MyStories.html
And if you want a really *fun* first date, check out my page of recs:
http://www.avalon.net/~publius/MyRecs.html
P.A. Berman
> She wasn't involved with anyone, she wasn't trying to conceive a
> child, and she WAS dying.
I cannot imagine that this is possible. She's a doctor and a thorough
scientist. I can't believe that she'd just ignore the possibililty of her
own infertility. She wanted to have children, someday, so I think she would
have had it all checked out.
> The tests, themselves, are
> uncomfortable, expensive and not covered by insurance.
A laparoscopy, which would check out those ovaries, is definitely covered by
most major insurance (don't ask how I know this). Yes, it's uncomfortable,
but it's nothing compared to some of the other crap Scully has suffered, and
it would be a logical thing to do.
> They also have a
> statistically significant possibility of making the woman infertile, if
> she isn't already. So if she wasn't trying to conceive, and thought
> she was dying -- why would she undergo that?
What test are you talking about? Laparoscopies pose no risk to a woman's
fertility-- it's just a camera, and it would be able to tell if Scully's ova
had all been released. It's an outpatient procedure, not the ordeal you're
describing.
-pab-
Bonnie a.k.a. Forte
>Or ... maybe she was never infertile at all. The only firsthand testimony
>that
>she was came from a Consortium employee. Such people have been known to
>lie --
>he could even have just been mistaken. That would explain why she never
>investigated the matter -- her cycle did NOT change, because she was still
>ovulating.
>
>And I would be a good amount of money that Scully would not have undergone
>testing, if she "discovered" her infertility shortly after "Memento Mori"
>(which
>seems to be the case -- she said in "Christmas Carol" that she found out
>"a few
>months ago -- which probably means shortly after MM, and that in turn means
>Mulder torld her what the Crawfords told him).
>
>She wasn't involved with anyone, she wasn't trying to conceive a child,
>and she
>WAS dying. It would be very upsetting news, but certainly not the MOST
>upsetting health problem she was having. The tests, themselves, are
>uncomfortable, expensive and not covered by insurance. They also have a
>statistically significant possibility of making the woman infertile, if
>she
>isn't already. So if she wasn't trying to conceive, and thought she was
>dying
>-- why would she undergo that?
>
>My point is that there is no conclusive evidence on the show that she was
>ever
>actually infertile. We only know that an undependable source claimed it
>was so,
>and that Mulder and Scully apparently believed him. And that's ALL the
>evidence
>there is.
You make some excellent points, Brandon. As I mentioned on another post,
though, I think *I* would have wanted the testing after my cancer had gone into
remission. Infertility due to natural causes is one thing; that caused by
medical tests against my will is something else. I think I would risk having
the test cause infertility to find out the truth. Of course, I'm not Scully
<g>, but my instinct tells me that she would react the same way.
That does not necessarily mean that Scully would have had the tests done by the
time of CC/Emily, so her comments there might have been based solely on what
Mulder presumably told her. In fact, this piece of dialogue from "Emily"
(specifically, "She hasn't known why") suggests that Scully had NOT had
specific fertility testing done:
MULDER: "Well, if you can show me a legal precedent for this case,
I'd like to see it. Dana has known for quite some time that she can't
bear children. She hasn't know why, now however that happened,
the fact that she can adopt this child, her own flesh and blood, is
something I don't feel I have the right to question and I don't believe
anybody has the right to stand in the way of."
In any case, if there had been *any* question about Scully's fertility, I think
Moose and Squirrel would have been a bit more careful about birth control. <g>
Of course, they might have used a method that failed, but that's an awfully
convenient explanation on CC's part. I prefer to think that Scully was
infertile, she had tests done post-Redux II to prove it, and she recently had
her fertility restored without her knowledge.
Bonnie
P.A. Berman
ovaries,
> and still have ova in those ovaries. It can not tell you beyond doubt
that
> there are NOT any eggs in your ovaries. There are other tests, much more
> involved than a laparoscopy, that can give a clearer picture -- but even
they
> are not infallible.
I defer to your greater wisdom, but let me ask you this-- how does a person
get a conclusive diagnosis of infertility? What do they have to do? If
Scully had all of her ova released at once ("superovulation"), wouldn't that
look kinda obvious on a laparoscopy?
-pab-
Brandon Ray
"P.A. Berman" wrote:
>
> What test are you talking about? Laparoscopies pose no risk to a woman's
> fertility-- it's just a camera, and it would be able to tell if Scully's ova
> had all been released. It's an outpatient procedure, not the ordeal you're
> describing.
>
A laparoscopy is not conclusive. It can tell you that you still have ovaries,
and still have ova in those ovaries. It can not tell you beyond doubt that
there are NOT any eggs in your ovaries. There are other tests, much more
involved than a laparoscopy, that can give a clearer picture -- but even they
are not infallible.
>
> -pab-
Brandon Ray
"P.A. Berman" wrote:
> > A laparoscopy is not conclusive. It can tell you that you still have
> ovaries,
> > and still have ova in those ovaries. It can not tell you beyond doubt
> that
> > there are NOT any eggs in your ovaries. There are other tests, much more
> > involved than a laparoscopy, that can give a clearer picture -- but even
> they
> > are not infallible.
>
> I defer to your greater wisdom, but let me ask you this-- how does a person
> get a conclusive diagnosis of infertility? What do they have to do? If
> Scully had all of her ova released at once ("superovulation"), wouldn't that
> look kinda obvious on a laparoscopy?
Superovulation does not mean having them all released at once. It means having
a lot of them released at once. We do that procedure now, in the real world --
we just don't get THOUSANDS of them. And even with the science fictional
version used on Scully, I don't find it hard to believe that a few could be
missed.
The only conclusive way of KNOWING that a woman will never conceive is to
remove her ovaries. IMHO.
Karen Simmons
> do they have to do?
A diagnosis of infertility is not based on absolutes. Basically if a
woman fails to conceive (or fails to ovulate) after a certain period of
time then she is diagnosed as infertile. Even if there's no biological
reason for her not to conceive. But that doesn't mean that the
possibility doesn't still exist. There is no such thing as a truly
conclusive, 100% diagnosis of infertility unless the woman has had her
ovaries completely removed.
Karen
P.A. Berman
having
> a lot of them released at once. We do that procedure now, in the real
world --
> we just don't get THOUSANDS of them. And even with the science fictional
> version used on Scully, I don't find it hard to believe that a few could
be
> missed.
A few quibbles with this: both Mulder and the Kurt Crawford indicate that
she did lose *all* of the eggs. We're not talking about real world
technology, we're talking alien technology.
And I still don't think Scully would be so slipshod as to claim barrenness
without some sort of evidence besides hearsay. That's not the Scully I've
been watching.
> The only conclusive way of KNOWING that a woman will never conceive is to
> remove her ovaries. IMHO.
Suppression via drugs will do it too. So will scarring.
-pab-
Brandon Ray
"P.A. Berman" wrote:
> > Superovulation does not mean having them all released at once. It means
> having
> > a lot of them released at once. We do that procedure now, in the real
> world --
> > we just don't get THOUSANDS of them. And even with the science fictional
> > version used on Scully, I don't find it hard to believe that a few could
> be
> > missed.
>
> A few quibbles with this: both Mulder and the Kurt Crawford indicate that
> she did lose *all* of the eggs. We're not talking about real world
> technology, we're talking alien technology.
Mulder had no independent knowledge; he got it from Crawford. And Crawford
was a Consortium employee. Such people have been known to lie in the past.
He could also have been mistaken, or he could have been speaking loosely, as
most people do on this issue -- he could have been saying that Scully had so
few remaining ova that the possibility that she would be able to conceive was
statistically insignificant.
But statistically insigificant is not the same thing as saying there is NO
chance.
>
> And I still don't think Scully would be so slipshod as to claim barrenness
> without some sort of evidence besides hearsay. That's not the Scully I've
> been watching.
I don't think it would necessarily be slipshod. Scully is a scientist, but
she's also human. She was given this information at one of the lowest moments
of her life -- she was fighting a fatal disease, and thought she might soon
die. I could easily see her deciding, "Fine, one more piece of shit in my
life," and letting it go, because it didn't matter at the time. By the time
of her remission, she could have internalized this as the truth, and not
bothered to pursue it, because she wasn't TRYING to get pregnant. One of
Scully's big failings is her tendency to shut herself down, emotionally, when
something happens that upsets her. I think that tendency could have worked
here.
And I'm also unsure how she would go about getting tested. "Doctor, I was
abducted by an evil government conspiracy, and a friend told me that someone
told him that the experiments they conducted on my made me infertile. Would
you mind checking it out for me?"
I don't mean to sound unpleasant or sarcastic -- but that's the story she
would have to tell. You don't just walk into a doctor's office and order
medical tests the way you order french fries. There have to be symptoms and a
history to justify the tests.
>
>
> > The only conclusive way of KNOWING that a woman will never conceive is to
> > remove her ovaries. IMHO.
>
> Suppression via drugs will do it too. So will scarring.
If there are birth control drugs that are 100% effective, I've never heard of
them. Scarring isn't a sure thing, either; you can never be SURE that there
isn't a gap an egg can get through.
I guess cutting the tubes would be a pretty sure bet, though.
KSJ
Brandon Ray wrote in message <392EC4F9...@avalon.net>...
>
>
>"P.A. Berman" wrote:
>
>> > Superovulation does not mean having them all released at once. It
means
>> having
>> > a lot of them released at once.
>> A few quibbles with this: both Mulder and the Kurt Crawford indicate that
>> she did lose *all* of the eggs. We're not talking about real world
>> technology, we're talking alien technology.
>
>Mulder had no independent knowledge; he got it from Crawford. And Crawford
>was a Consortium employee. Such people have been known to lie in the past.
>He could also have been mistaken, or he could have been speaking loosely,
as
>most people do on this issue -- he could have been saying that Scully had
so
>few remaining ova that the possibility that she would be able to conceive
was
>statistically insignificant.
>
I don't recall Kurt Crawford saying *ALL* her ova were gone. He said she
was exposed to a radiation that induced super-ovulation and that she was
barren.
There is a strong argument to be made that there *were* ova left (I too find
it highly improbably that every single last egg could be taken,) but that
her ovaries were so damaged by the procedure that they were inviable.
In that case, Scully regaining her fertility would not be a matter of giving
her more ova, it would be a matter of fixing the damage to her ovaries and
the remaining eggs. If the chip has the heal-all properties it's purported
to, I don't see the difficulty.
Kristel
Brandon Ray
KSJ wrote:
>
> I don't recall Kurt Crawford saying *ALL* her ova were gone. He said she
> was exposed to a radiation that induced super-ovulation and that she was
> barren.
Quite right. Here's the exact dialogue:
MULDER: What are these?
HYBRID: Human ova.
MULDER: Taken from whom?
(Mulder sees a metal drawer with Betsy Hagopian's name on it. The hybrid
points out another drawer with Dana Scully's name on it.)
MULDER: (whispered) What?
(He opens the drawer and sees several vials.)
HYBRID: Harvested during her abduction, through a high amplification radiation
procedure that caused superovulation.
MULDER: Why?
HYBRID: For fertilization. They constitute one half of the necessary raw
materials.
MULDER: For genetic hybridization .. for reproduction. These women, these women
are your birth mothers.
HYBRID: Barren now, from the same procedure that caused their cancer. And now
they're left to die, their conditions hastened by the men running this project.
MULDER: You're trying to save them.
HYBRID: They're our mothers.
>
> There is a strong argument to be made that there *were* ova left (I too find
> it highly improbably that every single last egg could be taken,) but that
> her ovaries were so damaged by the procedure that they were inviable.
>
> In that case, Scully regaining her fertility would not be a matter of giving
> her more ova, it would be a matter of fixing the damage to her ovaries and
> the remaining eggs. If the chip has the heal-all properties it's purported
> to, I don't see the difficulty.
>
> Kristel
--
lj1958
> their cancer. And now they're left to die, their conditions
> hastened by the men running this project.
This may not make any difference, but I think I remember that the
MUFON women were abducted multiple times to accomplish this,
if I remember correctly....
-Liz
-------------------------------------------
lj1958 on Deja and Remarq
2young on XF-OS
just Liz in the non internet world
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rubys...@my-deja.com
> And I'm also unsure how she would go about getting tested. "Doctor,
I was
> abducted by an evil government conspiracy, and a friend told me that
someone
> told him that the experiments they conducted on my made me
infertile. Would
> you mind checking it out for me?"
>
> I don't mean to sound unpleasant or sarcastic -- but that's the story
she
> would have to tell. You don't just walk into a doctor's office and
order
> medical tests the way you order french fries. There have to be
symptoms and a
> history to justify the tests.
Why is that the story Scully would *have* to tell? Whyever could she
not just walk into the doctor's office and say, "I haven't menstruated
in 2 years (or however long it had been), could you look into it?" Or,
if she is menstruating, which I *highly* doubt, she could say, "I have
lower abdominal pains during my period/ heavy bleeding, etc. Could you
check for endo, or cysts, or whatever" and delve from there.
All she would have to do is get the ball rolling, and the tests would
no doubt continue to justify further investigation. It's not that hard
to convince a doctor to test you for stuff, believe me. If she wanted
to find out about her infertility, she could easily convince another
doctor that it's necessary. She herself is a doctor.
> > Suppression via drugs will do it too. So will scarring.
>
> If there are birth control drugs that are 100% effective, I've never
heard of
> them.
There is a pill that is prescribed to treat endometriosis. If taken on
a 21 day cycle, it shuts down the ovaries completely and mimics
menopause. Of course, if you miss even one pill, the whole thing is
off. But this is academic information, really.
-pab-
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Helena Bowles
of
there
>isn't a gap an egg can get through.
>
>I guess cutting the tubes would be a pretty sure bet, though.
Not even then. There have been rare but documented cases of women having
had surgically severed fallopian tubes where an ova has managed to "get
past" the severed and tied area to meet a sperm that has "got past" the
opposite severed and tied end, has become fertilized, and has found
somewhere to implant. On the exceptionally rare occasions this has been
observed the embryo has usually implanted in the fallopian tube or on the
wall of the colon (good blood supply, almost as good as the uterine wall).
These are life threatening conditions for the mother and require termination
of the pregnancy but they do produce a similar hormonal state and bodily
changes.
Given all *that* can happen on its own I guess it would not be
theoretically infeasible that the fertilized ova could worm its way past the
scarred, severed, crushed uterine end of the fallopian tube to implant
naturally in the uterus. Especially in tv land.
In my opinion, however, I suspect Scully's "infertility" was defined in
the same way as the "infertility" suffered by most women in real life - a
medical way of saying: "You have a problem and you will almost certainly
never conceive without medical help and maybe not even then". Hundred if not
thousands of women a day conceive naturally after a doctor has told them
they could not.
HELENA
Michele Jackson
I didn't get the feeling that the tests being run were related to
her pregnancy. I thought they ran tests to see why she kept
fainting and they discovered the pregnancy as a byproduct of the
tests, but the tests were continuing and might lead to the
revelation of other conditions in addition to the pregnancy.
Michele
Michele Jackson
"P.A. Berman" wrote:
>
> >
>
> A few quibbles with this: both Mulder and the Kurt Crawford indicate that
> she did lose *all* of the eggs. We're not talking about real world
> technology, we're talking alien technology.
When Mulder spoke at Emily's hearing, even the judge said, "Is
that even possible?!" So, they made it clear that what Mulder
described to them was not something that happens in "the real
world" and not even something that they'd thought was medically
possible before. Mulder didn't misspeak or speak generally. He
deliberately conveyed that something extreme, unprecedented and
absolute had happened to Scully's eggs and happened to ALL of
them and even the judge seemed to understand this and find it
pretty incredible. Michele
> -pab-
Michele Jackson
rubys...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> All she would have to do is get the ball rolling, and the tests would
> no doubt continue to justify further investigation. It's not that hard
> to convince a doctor to test you for stuff, believe me. If she wanted
> to find out about her infertility, she could easily convince another
> doctor that it's necessary. She herself is a doctor.
>
> -pab-
>
>
And because she IS a doctor and an FBI agent, she could easily
get people to run tests without them asking any questions at all,
as a professional courtesy. I mean just as she got Pendrell to
do the scientific stuff. Scully's not exactly in the same
position as a normal woman who has to wait for her treating
physician or HMO provider to give special authorization for
unusual procedures. Michele