Scully grows up
PennPart
interesting that it will likely keep us going for quite a while.
But what about Scully... someone posted that if it weren't for Mulder, Scully
would have been Jana Cassidy....basically an all-business cold fish.
I'n not sure about that...though either Spotnitz or Carter said as much during
the movie hoohah.
I personally love the character of Scully. She is sooooo different from the
perky young thing of the Pilot. And it is a credit to GA that the
transformation has seemed pretty much natural and seamless.
But I also have my problems with her character...and wonder where the writers
will take her in the future.
So let me ask a few questions here...and if this is old fodder from the ATXF
NG, just ignore me.
I'm still kinda new around here.. :-)
How can Scully still be a non-believer ... even as early as Paper Clip, she has
seen ETs...how can she not even entertain the possibilities?
What has fueled Scully's growth? Obviously the death of her father and her
sister (in place of her), her abduction - both in Ascension and TRaTB - Emily,
and her various and sundry other experiences at the hands of the XF writing
staff have to have had an effect. But what has pushed this woman on? Why hasn't
she cracked? One of the reasons I love Wetwired is because she finally does
crack. And it was lovely to see...she does have a mushy center just like the
rest of us.
Why is Scully blind? I mean, here is a guy who obviously would go to the ends
of the earth for you (and I'm talking BEFORE the movie) and you can't see that
he is in love with you? Ok, so you think that he's a jerk. But how do you have
a life that is devoid of warm human contact (no boyfriends, hell, no any kind
of friends) and still function? I'm sure even Jana Cassidy has some friends to
hang out with during her time off. Scully vacations alone. She does EVERYTHING
alone. Is she really such a loner? And why does that bother me?
Finally, what are the chances that Carter will give up his penchant for
Victim!Scully. It's tiresome and depressing. Yes it's fun to watch Mulder
rescue her. But isn't it enough already? After Duane Barry, Donnie Pfaster, CSM
& CO., and a host of other weirdos, perverts and VEGs, can't we find another
motivation for Scully!growth and Scully/Mulder interaction?
Just a few random thoughts this beautiful Sunday morning.
Sue
CavaleC
of passion behind the controlled fascade which CC and friends have finally
shown us glimpses of recently.
>How can Scully still be a non-believer ... even as early as Paper Clip, she
has
>seen ETs...how can she not even entertain the possibilities?
The basic explanation that we've all assumed and that Spotnitz has confirmed is
that allowing Scully "to believe" changes the whole concept of the show. None
of the writers want to shake the foundation to that extent. The X-Files is
based on not only the mysteries, but the relationship of the believer and the
doubter. I think it was Spotnitz who said, "Having Scully believe would give
us a very, very dull show."
Makes you wonder though, with the ground-breaking "I saw it" Scully mutters
after the departure of the UFO... Seeing is believing, and that was quite a
sight.
But I also think that Scully's annoying rationalism and stubborness to cling to
science is simply comforting... for the character and for the audience. To
fling herself into the abyss as Mulder has done is a frightening prospect.
Even with all that Mulder has showed her in the realm of the impossible, she
still has to return to her roots of objectivity, of a world that makes sense.
Don't we all?
>What has fueled Scully's growth? Obviously the death of her father and her
>sister (in place of her), her abduction - both in Ascension and TRaTB -
>Emily, and her various and sundry other experiences at the hands of the XF
writing
>staff have to have had an effect. But what has pushed this woman on? Why
>hasn't she cracked?
Oh the iron strength of Scully. I am reminded of a scene in "Beyond the Sea"
where Mulder is questioning her intentions, whether or not she should take a
step back. She responds with a simple, "I love this job." Mulder's drive is
so much more obvious than Scully's, but she has her own higher cause to fight
for. She's less verbal about it, and the emotions stay further buried, but
it's there. And it give her something to fight for.
>Why is Scully blind? I mean, here is a guy who obviously would go to the ends
>of the earth for you and you can't see that he is in love with you? Ok, so you
think >that he's a jerk. But how do you have a life that is devoid of warm
human contact >and still function? Is she really such a loner? And why does
that bother me?
1) I think Scully knows Mulder loves her. And vice versa. (And not just in
shipper terms; apologies to some of the fine fanfic writers in here who may
think otherwise. *grin*) It's apparent their actions and what's left unsaid.
Will it manifest itself into a more concrete relationship? Depends on your
definition of "concrete" and whether or not CC wants the studio to get bombed
by the noromos. ;) 2) I believe S&M's lives both preclude a lot of human
contact. When we don't think we're understood, we tend to be alone. And there
aren't a lot of folks out there who could comprehend the tangled mess that
makes up the X-Files. If the writers gave either of them very extended social
lives, it would be unbelievable (and unacceptable, IMHO. That's not why we
tune in.) Scully's love/devotion for her family and Mulder speaks volumes,
even if she isn't obvious about it. So the characterization has been kept at a
level where we feel affection and a connection with her, without tampering with
the part of her that needs to be solitary.
>Finally, what are the chances that Carter will give up his penchant for
>Victim!Scully.
Yeah, I hope he will too. This trend has irritated me to no end. Someone
mentioned it to GA in an interview and irritation showed through in her curt
response. It's obviously something that has been thrown at CC and 10/13 by her
and others. CC has mentioned that he wants to make the give-take of Scully and
Mulder's protective functions to be equal. Let's hope he takes a better stab
at it in season 6.
It *is* a beautiful morning, isn't it? :) Cavale
Deborah A Tinsley
CavaleC <cav...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199807261635...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> I can't say I'd go with the cold fish analogy either for Scully. There's
a lot
> of passion behind the controlled fascade which CC and friends have
finally
> shown us glimpses of recently.
>
> >How can Scully still be a non-believer ... even as early as Paper Clip,
she
> has
> >seen ETs...how can she not even entertain the possibilities?
>
>
There is an episode where Scully explains her philosophy. I wish I could
remember it verbatim, but someone will I'm sure. It's something like
nothing goes against nature, but our conception of nature changes and
that's where hope lies. (much more concise than my poor attempt). i.e.
humans thought flight was impossible, against nature-until they learned how
to fly. As our knowledge increases, what was once miraculous is explained.
So when Scully sees something she doesn't believe in she tries to fit it
into what she does know before she goes with the extreme possibilities. She
will always be skeptical.
Mulder's mind does kind of the opposite (though he uses logic and
rationalism as well). He opens his mind completely to the impossible. They
balance. Just because Scully has seen the inside of the ship and the ship
doesn't mean she'll think everything comes from that. She does entertain
possibilities, but she's more hesitant. Season five we see he fighting with
Mulder about Cassandra, believing in what she saw at the bridge (after
hypnosis). It's Mulder and Spender together that make her doubt her own
memories--they activate her rational tendencies.
She has always kept Mulder honest, made him prove what he believed. And she
was right some times. He had to change his mind, consider her point of
view. The search for the truth is unforgiving. If you stray, you lose the
trail.
>
> But I also think that Scully's annoying rationalism and stubborness to
cling to
> science is simply comforting... for the character and for the audience.
To
> fling herself into the abyss as Mulder has done is a frightening
prospect.
> Even with all that Mulder has showed her in the realm of the impossible,
she
> still has to return to her roots of objectivity, of a world that makes
sense.
> Don't we all?
>
> >What has fueled Scully's growth? Obviously the death of her father and
her
> >sister (in place of her), her abduction - both in Ascension and TRaTB -
> >Emily, and her various and sundry other experiences at the hands of the
XF
> writing
> >staff have to have had an effect. But what has pushed this woman on? Why
> >hasn't she cracked?
>
>
> >Why is Scully blind? I mean, here is a guy who obviously would go to the
ends
> >of the earth for you and you can't see that he is in love with you? Ok,
so you
> think >that he's a jerk. But how do you have a life that is devoid of
warm
> human contact >and still function? Is she really such a loner? And why
does
> that bother me?
We get hints that Scully does have contact. In Home she tried to move the
pigs with the Baa-ram-ewe from Babe, saying her nephew watched the movie 13
times in a row (or something like that). She still has family she sees. She
does spend a lot of time on her work--to be as knowledgeable as she is
she'd have to spend some time keeping up with medical and scientific
journals as well as her work with Mulder--not to mention all that report
writing.
> 1) I think Scully knows Mulder loves her. And vice versa. (And not
just in
> shipper terms; apologies to some of the fine fanfic writers in here who
may
> think otherwise. *grin*)
I don't know about this, and here we get into very subjective territory on
my part anyway. I know certain people 'love' me, but love means a lot of
things. That love doesn't mean they will be what I want or need them to be.
It doesn't mean they'll support me in everything I do or even understand
the way I feel. I think we're all on our own part of the time anyway.
Scully has every reason to feel insecure at times. Even though Mulder comes
through for her in every extreme circumstance, he hasn't shown much
interest in her life otherwise. Nothing against Mulder here. He's consumed
by his work and has to be to stay alive, keep Scully alive. The Scullys
(Dana, Mom, Bill and Melissa) have helped him keep his feet on the ground.
They are the family he never had, and he can't really be a part of them
because 1. He's got his own family history, very different from theirs 2.
He just doesn't know how to do it. I loved the scenes between Mulder and
Melissa in One Breath. While Melissa is a tad too New Age to suit my own
tastes, she's right to try to make him understand that he has a choice-- to
go into darkness or into the light. No matter what he did to avenge Scully,
had she died, it never would have been enough. Scully says this too after
Melissa is killed when she has the chance to bring Melissa's killer to
justice.
It's apparent their actions and what's left unsaid.
(big snip to try to pare this darn post down! I'm writing too much)
> Scully's love/devotion for her family and Mulder speaks volumes,
> even if she isn't obvious about it. So the characterization has been
kept at a
> level where we feel affection and a connection with her, without
tampering with
> the part of her that needs to be solitary.
Yes- I agree.
> >Finally, what are the chances that Carter will give up his penchant for
> >Victim!Scully.
I take some issue with this. Scully has saved Mulder so many times! She may
not rush in and sock the bad guy but how many times has she dragged his
butt out of danger. Which ep was it where she had to physically drag him
out of an air vent and shoot the thing that was after him? (Vague--I think
it was one where the monster was sucking melanin out of black victims). She
saves him FTF by taking charge in that scene where the building is about to
blow up. She arrives in the nick of time and uses her head to save his life
after he's brought back from the sub after the alien bounty hunter gets
green blood on him. She saves him virtually and really in Killswitch. She
saves him in Anasazi several times--she finds takes him to her apartment
when he's sick, finds that he's being poisoned, puts up with his abuse,
shoots him to keep him from making a fatal mistake, drives him all the way
to New Mexico to get him out of harms way. She covers for him, lies for
him, puts herself in jeopardy for him. Doesn't this count? Does anyone ever
get tired of her saving him? Scully has to use her brains, she's tiny!
Now granted, I'd love to see a scene where Mulder is held captive by some
lascivious psycho (not a computer as in Killswitch) and see Scully rush in
the nick of time and comfort a sobbing Mulder on her shoulder-- but that's
just me.
> It *is* a beautiful morning, isn't it? :) Cavale
>
It is beautiful. It's cool and raining. I love it.
Deborah
Konrad Douglas Frye
(PennPart) writes:
<stuff cut>
>How can Scully still be a non-believer ... even as early as Paper Clip, she
>has seen ETs...how can she not even entertain the possibilities?
Part of the problem is that 1013 has a formula that they are hesitant to
stray very far from. As time goes by the weaknesses in that formula start
to show. Here's a few snippets from a roundtable interview Frank Spotnitz
did after season 4 concluded:
<cut>
Shermer: In what percentage of shows is [Agent Dana] Scully ("The X-Files')
right? Anybody actually count?
Spotnitz: In the final explanation, [Agent Fox] Mulder is almost invariably
right. Actually, Penn and Teller came in a couple years ago and wanted to
do a show where science won. But a show like that wouldn't be satisfying
dramatically.
Shermer: How do you know that? I mean, are there surveys showing 99% of
Americans want the mystery?
Spotnitz: You don't write based on demographics. You write as a dramatist
and a storyteller. And to have the sense of wonder defeated at the end is
not what you want.
</endcut>
I disagree with Mr. Spotnitz but that's for another thread.
Nowhere is the skeptic/believer formula more apparent than in the movie
when Carter has Scully staring at the snow as an alien craft bigger than
the fu*king Astrodome sails past. There's a line between skepticism and
out right anti-belief and when 1013 crosses it they do the rational,
intelligent Dana Scully *and* the their audience an injustice. I don't think
I'll be able to stand it if 1013 hauls Scully right back to square one
next season.
>What has fueled Scully's growth? Obviously the death of her father and her
>sister (in place of her), her abduction - both in Ascension and TRaTB - Emily,
>and her various and sundry other experiences at the hands of the XF writing
>staff have to have had an effect. But what has pushed this woman on? Why hasn't
>she cracked? One of the reasons I love Wetwired is because she finally does
>crack. And it was lovely to see...she does have a mushy center just like the
>rest of us.
It's like the prisoner in 'Terma' says, "it's wonderful, the persistance
of life".
>Why is Scully blind? I mean, here is a guy who obviously would go to the
>ends of the earth for you (and I'm talking BEFORE the movie) and you
>can't see that he is in love with you? Ok, so you think that he's a
>jerk. But how do you have a life that is devoid of warm human contact
>(no boyfriends, hell, no any kind of friends) and still function? I'm
>sure even Jana Cassidy has some friends to hang out with during her time
>off. Scully vacations alone. She does EVERYTHING alone. Is she really
>such a loner? And why does that bother me?
I think she does know and her first wakeup call may well have been 'One
Breath'. Once again however, there's that formula that 1013 is reluctant to
break away from. Hence, the interrupted moments of intimacy.
In fairness to 1013 though, after 5 seasons of near hermit-like
characterization it would be bizarre to find out that Scully has all of
a sudden found a life outside of work.
>Finally, what are the chances that Carter will give up his penchant for
>Victim!Scully. It's tiresome and depressing. Yes it's fun to watch Mulder
>rescue her. But isn't it enough already? After Duane Barry, Donnie Pfaster,
>CSM & CO., and a host of other weirdos, perverts and VEGs, can't we find
>another motivation for Scully!growth and Scully/Mulder interaction?
Not much I'm afraid. Gillian has even expressed her weariness with the
repeated reduction of Scully to the damsel in distress and that hasn't
stopped the writers from doing it.
The reluctance to tinker with formula may well be what destroys this
show. More than anything else it's stagnancy that I fear the most in
relation to the X-Files.
-----
Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
Computer Engineering IV
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Life...is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless,
perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for". - Cancer Man -
"Keep going FBI woman" - Fox Mulder -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
kateri
(on the InPeril!Scully and Superman!Mulder dichotomy)
Deborah writes:
> I take some issue with this. Scully has saved Mulder so many times! She
may
> not rush in and sock the bad guy but how many times has she dragged his
> butt out of danger. Which ep was it where she had to physically drag him
> out of an air vent and shoot the thing that was after him? (Vague--I
think
> it was one where the monster was sucking melanin out of black victims).
She
> saves him FTF by taking charge in that scene where the building is about
to
> blow up.
(more good examples snipped)
> She covers for him, lies for
> him, puts herself in jeopardy for him. Doesn't this count? Does anyone
ever
> get tired of her saving him? Scully has to use her brains, she's tiny!
> Now granted, I'd love to see a scene where Mulder is held captive by some
> lascivious psycho (not a computer as in Killswitch) and see Scully rush
in
> the nick of time and comfort a sobbing Mulder on her shoulder-- but
that's
> just me.
When writing an extended essay on the show, trying to convince my
militant-feminist friend (and yes, that's a term of affection) that Scully
and Mulder really were presented as equals, I used this exact argument.
She had only seen the Pilot and the Ascension-One Breath trilogy, and while
those are some of my favorite episodes, they do exploit the
damsel-in-distress formula.
However, I explained to her, it only makes sense that Scully, who is
physically smaller and female, would be a more likely target for a random
psycho trying to lash out at his/her pursuers. The perp would assume that
her size and sex would make her easier prey. And while we all know this
isn't true, it is also evident that either of the partners alone can be
endangered without undue effort. So the bad guys choose Scully.
Obviously, this is rationalization at it's finest, but hey, if it works. .
Alexa James
>Makes you wonder though, with the ground-breaking "I saw it" Scully mutters
>after the departure of the UFO... Seeing is believing, and that was quite a
>sight.
Well, of course, just because Scully saw a ship doesn't mean there's
any proof that the ship was extraterrestrial. And she was way too far
gone in the interior to see the aliens. (Hard to take field notes
when you've stopped breathing.) So it could be argued that, although
she clearly believes "the game is afoot" now, she still hasn't been
convinced of the extraterrestrial part of it.
Cavale:
>Oh the iron strength of Scully. I am reminded of a scene in "Beyond the Sea"
>where Mulder is questioning her intentions, whether or not she should take a
>step back. She responds with a simple, "I love this job." Mulder's drive is
>so much more obvious than Scully's, but she has her own higher cause to fight
>for. She's less verbal about it, and the emotions stay further buried, but
>it's there. And it give her something to fight for.
>
I was intrigued by her in FTF. She's actually the one who fights to
reopen the XF. Mulder has clearly given up. It's the first time I've
seen her take such an active role in keeping them open. At the end of
the movie, for the first time, I actually felt like she was perhaps
even more vested in the quest then Mulder was. If nothing else, she
seems equally driven now. I guess you can only be abducted, infected
and dragged off so many times before you REALLY want some answers!
>>Finally, what are the chances that Carter will give up his penchant for
>>Victim!Scully.
>
>Yeah, I hope he will too. This trend has irritated me to no end. Someone
>mentioned it to GA in an interview and irritation showed through in her curt
>response. It's obviously something that has been thrown at CC and 10/13 by her
>and others. CC has mentioned that he wants to make the give-take of Scully and
>Mulder's protective functions to be equal. Let's hope he takes a better stab
>at it in season 6.
>
I actually think this last and arguably most spectacular case of
victim-Scully was necessitated by the movie's need to attract
non-Philes. It's difficult enough to establish affection for two
established leading characters in the short time allotted. Mulder
needed a compelling reason to go off to Antarctica that the audience
could easily relate to. If he'd been off searching for the Truth or
Samantha (who wasn't even introduced in the movie), or the vaccine,
etc., the non-Phile audience (was there a non-Phile audience?LOL)
wouldn't have been able to empathize with his struggles. At least, by
the time Scully becomes a pod person, they know her enough to root for
her safe return.
If this had been an episode instead of a movie, I think it would have
been written very differently, if at all.
Alexa
bubbela
>
> This conversation about Mulder has been fascinating. And his character is so
> interesting that it will likely keep us going for quite a while.
>
> But what about Scully... someone posted that if it weren't for Mulder, Scully
> would have been Jana Cassidy....basically an all-business cold fish.
> How can Scully still be a non-believer ... even as early as Paper Clip, she has
> seen ETs...how can she not even entertain the possibilities?
>
She has come to believe in the government conspiracy part of the
equation. And she has become willing to accept paranormal experiences
and visions, when they happen to her personally and involve her own
particular belief system (BtS, Revelations, Elegy, Patient X, All
Souls). The next step is for Scully to entertain the possibility that
others with similar experiences and belief systems are not simply
delusional (FaD). But I'm not sure they can have Scully take this final
step without losing much of the dynamic that results from the opposition
of Mulder's and Scully's points of view.
> What has fueled Scully's growth? Obviously the death of her father and her
> sister (in place of her), her abduction - both in Ascension and TRaTB - Emily,
> and her various and sundry other experiences at the hands of the XF writing
> staff have to have had an effect.
>
Clearly Mulder has helped fuel at least some of that growth. Although
it remains unsaid, I believe that Mulder makes Scully a whole person in
the same way he has admitted she makes him a whole person.
The Scully of Season 1 -- the Scully who was friendly with ambitious
cretins like
Tom Colton -- was so wedded to protocol and authority that she was
sometimes capable of acting in a fairly cold-blooded way if that's what
"going by the book" required. In Conduit, she turned a young child over
to the NSA simply because they told her he was a threat to national
security. In Deep Throat, she was willing to walk away from a case --
and a woman who was petrified of living with a husband who had been
kidnapped and returned as a different person -- because the "kidnap
victim was no longer outstanding." There are still glimpses of this
tendency, such as in Oubliette and, most recently, in FaD. But Scully
today is much more likely to question authority and conventional
thinking than she used to be. She is less likely to care what the Tom
Coltons of the world think of her or her work. She no longer condescends
to the Lone Gunmen, but looks to them for help and advice. I think it's
reasonable to assume that at least part of that growth in her worldview
-- the expansion in what and who she perceives to be important in life
to include not just the father figures and their truths, but also the
disaffected and their truths -- is due to Mulder's influence.
> Why is Scully blind? I mean, here is a guy who obviously would go to the ends
> of the earth for you (and I'm talking BEFORE the movie) and you can't see that
> he is in love with you?
>
I think she understands what Mulder feels for her, but needs him to
verbalize it from time to time. He did in FaD (one in 5 billion) and in
FTF. It will be interesting to see if Scully will verbalize her
feelings for him in return.
> Finally, what are the chances that Carter will give up his penchant for
> Victim!Scully. It's tiresome and depressing. Yes it's fun to watch Mulder
> rescue her. But isn't it enough already? After Duane Barry, Donnie Pfaster, CSM
> & CO., and a host of other weirdos, perverts and VEGs, can't we find another
> motivation for Scully!growth and Scully/Mulder interaction?
>
Scully and Mulder have saved each other from peril a roughly equal
number of times (starting with Deep Throat, the second episode, and most
recently in Kill Switch), so I don't see a penchant for "victimizing"
Scully in particular. (I'm assuming that Victim!Scully means Scully in
danger, and that every time Mulder is in danger he is Victim!Mulder, and
that you're not using the term to denote anything more significant than
that.) Placing *both* characters in danger has often been used as an
effective tool for character growth and interaction, but not the only,
or even the primary tool. The fact remains that M&S are FBI agents who
investigate creepy and dangerous things, not to mention their periodic
involvement with a murderous group of government conspirators. It would
not be very convincing if Mulder were subject to those dangers but
Scully were immune from them. The last thing I want to see is any
further tendency to write her character as a cross between Mother Teresa
and Wonder Woman, which imo represents not growth, but a
one-dimensionalization that makes the character significantly less
interesting to me. Also, GA said in a recent interview that she asked
the writers to give her more "pain" in Season 5, so some of the
"victimization" that some perceive may have been a collaborative
decision.
-- bubbela
GeoRed
writes:
>However, I explained to her, it only makes sense that Scully, who is
>physically smaller and female, would be a more likely target for a random
>psycho trying to lash out at his/her pursuers. The perp would assume that
>her size and sex would make her easier prey. And while we all know this
>isn't true, it is also evident that either of the partners alone can be
>endangered without undue effort. So the bad guys choose Scully.
>Obviously, this is rationalization at it's finest, but hey, if it works. .
I've actually had this conversation before as well. It is an unfortunate fact
of life that women are targets. It is also an unfortunate fact of life that
the majority of women are not as physically strong as your average
psycho/rapist/murderer. So, do we get upset at Carter for realistically
portraying this (well, as realistic as the XF can be) or do we get upset at
society as a whole and life in general? The fact that Mulder regularly gets
the crap beaten out of him is quite realistic too......and a something that I
enjoy for some twisted reason. ;-)
Heidi
::::::::with head in hands, rocking slowly::::::::::
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter."
<Mulder: He's not just lean.......he's cuisine.>
GeoRed
<TINS...@prodigy.net> writes:
>> >Finally, what are the chances that Carter will give up his penchant for
>> >Victim!Scully.
>
>I take some issue with this. Scully has saved Mulder so many times! She may
>not rush in and sock the bad guy but how many times has she dragged his
>butt out of danger. Which ep was it where she had to physically drag him
>out of an air vent and shoot the thing that was after him? (Vague--I think
>it was one where the monster was sucking melanin out of black victims). She
>saves him FTF by taking charge in that scene where the building is about to
>blow up. She arrives in the nick of time and uses her head to save his life
>after he's brought back from the sub after the alien bounty hunter gets
>green blood on him. She saves him virtually and really in Killswitch. She
>saves him in Anasazi several times--she finds takes him to her apartment
>when he's sick, finds that he's being poisoned, puts up with his abuse,
>shoots him to keep him from making a fatal mistake, drives him all the way
>to New Mexico to get him out of harms way. She covers for him, lies for
>him, puts herself in jeopardy for him. Doesn't this count? Does anyone ever
>get tired of her saving him? Scully has to use her brains, she's tiny!
>Now granted, I'd love to see a scene where Mulder is held captive by some
>lascivious psycho (not a computer as in Killswitch) and see Scully rush in
>the nick of time and comfort a sobbing Mulder on her shoulder-- but that's
>just me.
>
Couldn't have said it better myself. Especially the
Mulder!HeldCaptivebyalasciviouspsycho. :-) I really don't understand the need
to discount Scully's ability to use her brains (as well as her somewhat limited
brawn) to save Mulder time and again. I like it when she does that and I have
no problem with Mulder having to save her from time to time. I know some
people have a problem with *how* they get into trouble, but that all goes back
to character traits, IMO.
David Courtland
> How can Scully still be a non-believer ... even as early as Paper Clip, she has
> seen ETs...how can she not even entertain the possibilities?
I think this question may be worth an episode similar to "Unusual
Suspects" or "Travelers" that explores Scully's past, which we know
practically nothing about. It's never been clear why her parents
disapproved of her decision to pursue a career in the FBI instead of
medicine.
Note that Scully is apparently a fallen-away Catholic who seeks a rational
explantion for events, while Mulder seemingly had no particular religious
background but is more open to belief in the supernatural. Just as
Mulder's pursuit of the X-Files is prompted by a traumatic event that
fueled his belief in paranormal events, Scully may have been prompted to
join the FBI by an event that made her question all of her religious
beliefs.
> Why is Scully blind? I mean, here is a guy who obviously would go to the ends
> of the earth for you (and I'm talking BEFORE the movie) and you can't see that
> he is in love with you? Ok, so you think that he's a jerk. But how do you have
> a life that is devoid of warm human contact (no boyfriends, hell, no any kind
> of friends) and still function? I'm sure even Jana Cassidy has some friends to
> hang out with during her time off. Scully vacations alone. She does EVERYTHING
> alone. Is she really such a loner? And why does that bother me?
She *did* have a fling with an instructor at the FBI Academy. But again,
I'd bet her lack of a social life has something to do with whatever
prompted her to walk away from the Church and a medical career. I think
there's clearly some pivotal traumatic in her past that left her as
affected as Samantha's abduction left Mulder.
> Finally, what are the chances that Carter will give up his penchant for
> Victim!Scully. It's tiresome and depressing. Yes it's fun to watch Mulder
> rescue her. But isn't it enough already? After Duane Barry, Donnie Pfaster, CSM
> & CO., and a host of other weirdos, perverts and VEGs, can't we find another
> motivation for Scully!growth and Scully/Mulder interaction?
I second that! Scully has saved Mulder's butt more than a few times, but
it often seems she does it by accidently stepping on the scene just in
time to stop someone from killing Mulder.
David Courtland/par...@humboldt1.com
Web page: http://www.humboldt1.com/~pariah
--
"If one cannot command attention by one's admirable qualities one can at
least be a nuisance." -- Margery Allingham, "Death of a Ghost"
bubbela
>
> Cavale:
> >Makes you wonder though, with the ground-breaking "I saw it" Scully mutters
> >after the departure of the UFO... Seeing is believing, and that was quite a
> >sight.
>
> Well, of course, just because Scully saw a ship doesn't mean there's
> any proof that the ship was extraterrestrial.
Similarly, just because Scully said she saw a ship doesn't mean she
really did. Since she is barely able to pick her head up off the ice, it
didn't seem possible that she actually saw it flying away. She may have
said she did simply to comfort Mulder, who so desperately *wanted* her
to see it.
-- bubbela
Konrad Douglas Frye
I think Carter commented in a recent interview that Scully said no such
thing. I'm surprised because I'm certain she did (the theatres I've
seen the movie in all had fantastic surround sound setups). Whatever the
truth of the matter is I'm pissed that CC had Scully staring at the
snow. It just seemed like such a season 1 thing to do.
Alexa James
>Nowhere is the skeptic/believer formula more apparent than in the movie
>when Carter has Scully staring at the snow as an alien craft bigger than
>the fu*king Astrodome sails past. There's a line between skepticism and
>out right anti-belief and when 1013 crosses it they do the rational,
>intelligent Dana Scully *and* the their audience an injustice. I don't think
>I'll be able to stand it if 1013 hauls Scully right back to square one
>next season.
>
But Scully DOES see the ship. She just has no reason to think it's
extraterrestrial at this point.
Scully back to square one? With her fight to keep the XF open, her
defiance of the Bureau mainstream? Her open declaration that her work
is with Mulder now? Her "I see it" "I see it."
I don't see it!
Alexa
NkPiii
>thing. I'm surprised because I'm certain she did (the theatres I've
>seen the movie in all had fantastic surround sound setups). Whatever the
>truth of the matter is I'm pissed that CC had Scully staring at the
>snow. It just seemed like such a season 1 thing to do.
>
>
The ending of the novelization had Scully specifically saying that she wasn't
certain what she had seen. As I suspect the book was written from an earlier
version of the script, I suppose that business of having her bury her face in
the snow was a matter of having the option to go that way in the film. I would
guess, though, from the way the ending scenes turned out that even 1013 knew
that would have been the biggest laugh in the movie.
NJP
Scully obviously doesn't have any "Mother's Of Invention" records at home,
either....
NkPiii
with Scully being portrayed as a victim. Some thoughts.
Scully entered Mulder's world as an inexperienced outsider. Mulder, on the
other hand, was a willing occupant. He knew the ropes. She worked with a
mindset that denied most of the the things, the dangerous things, that existed
in that world. In other words, she wasn't in a position to cope with what she
encountered. This would naturally make her more vulnerable to the better
prepared Mulder. Still, there has been a balance of sorts. For a "Wet-Wired"
there's a "Grotesque," for example. I'd agreed that there's a kind of
"gratuitous" victimization in eps like "Tooms" and "2SHY" where it seems almost
a matter of accident that she ends up the victim to the MOTW but this is offset
by Mulder's constant troubles in the Mytharc eps. And it's hard not to
appreciate the victimization done with harrowing effectiveness in something
like "Irresistible."
As for the recent focus on Scully's troubles, we are asked to accept this
world-wide conspiracy of shadowy figures working their horrors on us. How do
they convey that effectively to an audience? If you don't, you end up with a
rubber-monster show like "Dark Skies." Not for nothing do hear that for Mulder
the truth is "out there," i.e. his "troubles" coming from his external search
and efforts to expose the conspiracy. For Scully, the truth is "in [her]." Her
"troubles" are the result of her loyalty to Mulder and her (admittedly very
slow) movement away from that which she *knows* to that which she only now
beginning to accept.
I sometimes wonder if people really expect that one day she will just say "Gee
Mulder, now I believe." That would be terribly unsatisfying. We already have a
number of episodes where Scully, while not accepting the paranormal
explanation, is willing to proceed in her actions as though she does. (Chinga,
z.B.) She has moved from not believing in *any* conspiracy or *any*
extraterrestrial entity to accepting that there is a shadow group (T n T) and
that there *is* extraterrestrial biology involved (though not living aliens
entities). (Redux?) And this despite a Consortium effort to misdirect her
(Nisei/731). I'd hardly call that still being a stone skeptic...
NJP
GeoRed
<par...@telnet.humboldt1.com> writes:
>> Why is Scully blind? I mean, here is a guy who obviously would go to the
>ends
>> of the earth for you (and I'm talking BEFORE the movie) and you can't see
>that
>> he is in love with you? Ok, so you think that he's a jerk. But how do you
>have
>> a life that is devoid of warm human contact (no boyfriends, hell, no any
>kind
>> of friends) and still function? I'm sure even Jana Cassidy has some friends
>to
>> hang out with during her time off. Scully vacations alone. She does
>EVERYTHING
>> alone. Is she really such a loner? And why does that bother me?
>
>She *did* have a fling with an instructor at the FBI Academy. But again,
>I'd bet her lack of a social life has something to do with whatever
>prompted her to walk away from the Church and a medical career. I think
>there's clearly some pivotal traumatic in her past that left her as
>affected as Samantha's abduction left Mulder.
Well, you are talking about her past and the previous poster seems to be
talking about her present. There are a few examples of Scully having a private
life in the first season. She *did* stuff with other people. But lately she
has become isolated (or she *seems* isolated....we don't see enough to know)
primarily due to her job. It seems that in Season 1 she was an adult with
friends and dates. It is only in the last couple of years that she has become
a loner. That said, I do think that there is something in her past that causes
her to be emotionally closed off a lot of the time. I just think that her
current state of affairs can be attributed to her work load with Mulder. And
everything she has seen.
Konrad Douglas Frye
(NkPiii) writes:
>The ending of the novelization had Scully specifically saying that she wasn't
>certain what she had seen. As I suspect the book was written from an earlier
>version of the script, I suppose that business of having her bury her face in
>the snow was a matter of having the option to go that way in the film. I would
>guess, though, from the way the ending scenes turned out that even 1013 knew
>that would have been the biggest laugh in the movie.
The groans and catcalls would have been heard for miles had they gone
with the novelization approach. I'm just not sure how much longer they can
continue to keep this facade in place. It'll probably take a bite in the
ass from one of those mutant oileans before things change <g>
Acknowledging that there are aliens running about doesn't mean Scully
suddenly has to drop her cloak of skepticism. The date is set, I hope
1013 allows her to get her act together before things go to hell ;)
-----
Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
Computer Engineering IV
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with the
bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kathleen T. Choi
PennPart wrote:
> How can Scully still be a non-believer ... even as early as Paper Clip, she has
> seen ETs...how can she not even entertain the possibilities?
Here's a newbie taking her first step into the dark void of view exchange. Can we
factor Scully's religious faith into her response to Mulder's various
"discoveries." Where she does depart from pure rationalism, eg. "Revelations"
(3-11), it's to her childhood faith. Integrating all that Mulder claims is
happening with both a rationalistic/materialistic view of the universe and Roman
Catholicism requires an incredibly elastic mind. I'm not surprised that she shifts
back and forth.
Aloha, Kathleen
GammaBunny
over FTF Scully in denial, so I'll
add in my 2 cents:
Here are the facts as I know them:
1) Scully did say "I saw it"
2) She tells Mulder in the garden
she told the FBI panel EVERYthing!!!
IMHO, Mulder either:
a) almost wets his pants or
b) Thinks about seriously getting
Scully in the sack, because she looks
really sexy to him....
because Scully never puts herself on
the line like that. She rather let
Mulder look like the insane one.
*chuckle chuckle*
See Folie a Deux
3) She lobbies HARD to reopen the
X-Files and she is VERY commited.
Given this drastic change in her
personality I think it's a safe
bet to say she has seen the same
"truth" as Mulder has.
The movie conclusion had them
arguing yes, however this time it
was not over what they saw but
what to do next.
How's that for a change of pace? :D
So rest assured. M&S will keep
their fighting restricted to
speculation-vs-proof
in the new season.
gB
____________________________________________
"Here's where you pucker up and kiss my as$" -Skinner to CSM
Give your 2 cents at the Giant X-Phile Poll
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/4218
David Courtland
> Well, you are talking about her past and the previous poster seems to be
> talking about her present. There are a few examples of Scully having a private
> life in the first season. She *did* stuff with other people. But lately she
> has become isolated (or she *seems* isolated....we don't see enough to know)
> primarily due to her job. It seems that in Season 1 she was an adult with
> friends and dates. It is only in the last couple of years that she has become
> a loner. That said, I do think that there is something in her past that causes
> her to be emotionally closed off a lot of the time. I just think that her
> current state of affairs can be attributed to her work load with Mulder. And
> everything she has seen.
The only Season 1 references to any kind of social life that I can
remember were in "Jersey Devil" and "Lazarus", so I don't think Scully has
necessarily been any more reclusive since then. Her socializing in "Jersey
Devil" seems to have been more of a tentative exploration along the same
lines as in "Never Again", and her relationship with Jack Willis was
probably in that vein too.
It might be worth noting that in "Never Again" Scully seemed to be
flirting with danger by picking up a stranger she met in a tatoo parlor,
and her affair with Jack Willis was likewise probably a risky experiment
(having an affair with your academy instructor seems like a good way to
get fired before your FBI career has even gotten started).
Alexa James
(lost the attribution for this, but it was in the original post in
this thread)
>> Why is Scully blind? I mean, here is a guy who obviously would go to the ends
>> of the earth for you (and I'm talking BEFORE the movie) and you can't see that
>> he is in love with you? Ok, so you think that he's a jerk. But how do you have
>> a life that is devoid of warm human contact (no boyfriends, hell, no any kind
>> of friends) and still function? I'm sure even Jana Cassidy has some friends to
>> hang out with during her time off. Scully vacations alone. She does EVERYTHING
>> alone. Is she really such a loner? And why does that bother me?
I think Scully had a normal life before the XF and Mulder consumed it.
I remember reading an interview with CC in which he says the reason
they did the whole Rob and Scully on a date thing in Jersey Devil was
to show the audience what Scully was giving up by working with Mulder.
That seems to imply that before the XF she was a very different
person, which is understandable. How could anyone not be deeply
affected by the experiences she's had over the last five years? I
can't imagine Scully fighting to uncover a vast government conspiracy,
slogging through green alien goo, and then going home to take a shower
and catch the early showing of The Horse Whisperer.
In season 1, she hangs out at her godson's birthday party, dates the
insipid Rob and goes to a friend's cello recital. And don't forget
the lunch with Tom Colton. She even puts up a Christmas tree. Other
than some holiday dinners with her family, in later years, her normal
social contacts have vanished. She is as isolated in that basement
office as Mulder is, which, in a weird form of the Stockholm Syndrome
(g) strengthens the bond between them even more.
Alexa
Alexa James
>
>I think Carter commented in a recent interview that Scully said no such
>thing. I'm surprised because I'm certain she did (the theatres I've
>seen the movie in all had fantastic surround sound setups). Whatever the
>truth of the matter is I'm pissed that CC had Scully staring at the
>snow. It just seemed like such a season 1 thing to do.
>
>Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
Can you give us the primary source for this CC comment? I find this
VERY hard to believe. (Not that I'm doubting you. I'd just like to
read the original text.) Now that I know what to look for, it seems
very obvious to me that she's saying she saw the ship.
Alexa
Alexa James
>I sometimes wonder if people really expect that one day she will just say "Gee
>Mulder, now I believe." That would be terribly unsatisfying. We already have a
>number of episodes where Scully, while not accepting the paranormal
>explanation, is willing to proceed in her actions as though she does. (Chinga,
>z.B.) She has moved from not believing in *any* conspiracy or *any*
>extraterrestrial entity to accepting that there is a shadow group (T n T) and
>that there *is* extraterrestrial biology involved (though not living aliens
>entities). (Redux?) And this despite a Consortium effort to misdirect her
>(Nisei/731). I'd hardly call that still being a stone skeptic...
>
>NJP
>
I was thinking of EBE when I read the comments above. There's that
scene in EBE that I just love where M&S investigate the interior of
the truck after the alien vanishes. Scully is so excited! She's
almost like a little kid. "What happened?" "What is aliens?" And
she's so disappointed when Mulder tells her he doesn't think it was.
And that was first season. I think Scully wants to believe, too, but
it takes more to get her to that point than in does Mulder.
Alexa
Bl...@ix.netcom.com
>
> I think Scully had a normal life before the XF and Mulder consumed it.
Define "normal".
Despite allusions to "Jersey Devil" as an example of her normalcy, I beg
to disagree. She doesn't seem at all hesitant (although we don't hear
the conversation) to choose her work over a social life. Obviously, if
she had some bustling parties planned every weekend, the decision would
be more agonizing.
I think Scully has always been very closed off, very reticent, very
achievement-oriented. I think most people agree with that judgement as
well. However, I would also posit that, had Scully not joined the
X-Files, she would likely still be single, childless, and devoted to her
work. She could not have eased into the all-consuming nature of the
X-Files with such apparent unquestioning if she wasn't already acting
accordingly. I know we see her questioning her devotion later - in
Never Again - but that is more a rebellion against Mulder than against
her work.
Just mho.
-chupacabra
Konrad Douglas Frye
(Alexa James) writes:
>>
>>I think Carter commented in a recent interview that Scully said no such
>>thing. I'm surprised because I'm certain she did (the theatres I've
>>seen the movie in all had fantastic surround sound setups). Whatever the
>>truth of the matter is I'm pissed that CC had Scully staring at the
>>snow. It just seemed like such a season 1 thing to do.
>Can you give us the primary source for this CC comment? I find this
>VERY hard to believe. (Not that I'm doubting you. I'd just like to
>read the original text.) Now that I know what to look for, it seems
>very obvious to me that she's saying she saw the ship.
I couldn't track down the original source. I seem to recall a few others
saying it was an interview with a small FOX affiliate. Based on what I
*know* I heard in the theatres the report is either false or CC has
selective hearing ;)
I did manage to snag this from Dejanews, maybe the post date can help
somebody else track down the interview transcript in question:
<snip>
Subject: Re: Scully saw the spaceship
From: Darre...@hotmail.com
Date: 1998/07/01
I recall reading an interview a few days ago (I think it was with CC) in which
one of the questions related to what Scully said when the spaceship was in the
air. Anyway, Scully mumbles something incoherently, not I see it. It
will supposedly be discussed in season 6.
</snip>
-----
Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
Computer Engineering IV
PennPart
<<I think this question may be worth an episode similar to "Unusual
Suspects" or "Travelers" that explores Scully's past, which we know
practically nothing about. It's never been clear why her parents
disapproved of her decision to pursue a career in the FBI instead of
medicine. >>
I would love a Scully prequel. I think that this is a shortcoming of the
series...we've learned the background of the LGM, CSM, and FWM and what
motivates them.
What about DKS? :-)
I'd love to understand her better. What was it like growing up in her parents'
home? The sensitive, loving Maggie Scully and the domineering, stern (but
loving) Captain William Scully? What a pull that must have been for middle
child. (Dana is the third of the four Scully children?)
I'd like to know what her dad had against her working for the FBI and what he
thought about her working on the X-Files. He was a great influence on her sense
of loyalty and her sense of honor and integrity. I would like to see the scene
where she tells her dad that she is giving up medicine for the FBI.
GA can certainly carry off the younger role without trouble. So why not take us
there, boys? Afraid to write that story, CC?
Sue
PennPart
<< I know we see her questioning her devotion later - in
Never Again - but that is more a rebellion against Mulder than against
her work.>>
I LOVE Never Again for just that reason. She finally acts like a human being.
She lets down her guard. She takes a risk. (Don't we all?) Of course what
bothered me was that she also almost ended up as fuel as a result. Yet she
saves herself here. No Mulder-to-the-rescue. Scully takes care of herself.
Sorry didn't mean to get us off topic...
Sue
Shulamit -
If coincidences are just coincidences, why do they feel so contrived?
PennPart
You wrote:
<<Here's a newbie taking her first step into the dark void of view exchange.
Can we
factor Scully's religious faith into her response to Mulder's various
"discoveries." Where she does depart from pure rationalism, eg. "Revelations"
(3-11), it's to her childhood faith. Integrating all that Mulder claims is
happening with both a rationalistic/materialistic view of the universe and
Roman
Catholicism requires an incredibly elastic mind. I'm not surprised that she
shifts
back and forth.>>
I have always wondered how Scully could accept her Catholicism on
faith...though it goes against nature. Yet she can't accept things she has even
seen with her own eyes that don't fit nature... it's a puzzlement.
(Sorry, didn't mean to post three times...but there';s just so much to discuss
here...Please don't flame...I won't do it again.)
Sue
CavaleC
(PennPart) writes:
><>
>
>I would love a Scully prequel. I think that this is a shortcoming of the
>series...we've learned the background of the LGM, CSM, and FWM and what
>motivates them.
>
>What about DKS? :-)
>
>I'd love to understand her better. What was it like growing up in her
>parents' >home? The sensitive, loving Maggie Scully and the domineering, stern
>(but >loving) Captain William Scully? What a pull that must have been for
middle
>child. (Dana is the third of the four Scully children?)
>
>I'd like to know what her dad had against her working for the FBI and what he
>thought about her working on the X-Files. He was a great influence on her
>sense of loyalty and her sense of honor and integrity. I would like to see the
>scene where she tells her dad that she is giving up medicine for the FBI.
>
>GA can certainly carry off the younger role without trouble. So why not take
>us there, boys? Afraid to write that story, CC?
>
>Sue
>
I agree that it would be fascinating, but unless you were going to focus on
Dad's military involvenment, there's really nothing that directly relates to an
X-File in her childhood/young adulthood. An entire episode devoted to Scully's
past would be purely character, and I not sure 1013 would swing it. Too
normal. ;) Alhough, they might come up with something clever as to why she's
"the chosen one." If we're to believe the mythology, she became Mulder's
partner and an abductee for a very specific reason. Hmmm...
However, I've loved glimpes of Scully's past, even the hoky ones. (The snake
hunt in One Breath comes to mind.) "The Bunny" was another chilling example
that I loved the symbolism behind. (What ep was that in?) Most recently, the
bestowing of the necklaces/crosses to Melissa and DS struck me as very
poignant...
..Which reminds me of another point. We've been discussing whether her
tendencies to be alone are ingrained in her personality or are a
direct/indirect result of her work in the X-Files. Naturally, yes, I think
she'd never be one to hang out in a crowd. A bookworm and a dreamer are roles
that come to mind when I think of her as a young woman, pre Fox Mulder. But
after Christmas Carol/Emily especially, I see her yearning to be a mother, to
be more than the X-Files have allowed her to be. Despite some of the critical
disappointment with these eps, they, more than any others, indicate that DS
knows what's she's been missing... that, had life treated her differently, she
might very well have a family of her own. Does this mean that she would have
given up her job, devoted every waking thought to raising the kids and pleasing
hubby? No. But she is a multi-faceted person -- in that I think we all agree.
We all focus on the range of Mulder's visions. I don't think Scully's is any
less far-reaching. It just grows in different directions.
-Cavale
NkPiii
>>
>> I think Scully had a normal life before the XF and Mulder consumed it.
>
>Define "normal".
>
>Despite allusions to "Jersey Devil" as an example of her normalcy, I beg
>to disagree. She doesn't seem at all hesitant (although we don't hear
>the conversation) to choose her work over a social life.
In the first two seasons, she went to a wedding, went to her godson's birthday
party, dated (once). It is true that she seemed to find her romantic interests
at work (Willis, at the academy( Lazarus), and an unnamed married individual
(Aubrey) at work.) Mulder's interruptions of her life were occasionally met
with comments that she was supposed to be somewhere. It wasn't until season
three that she really began to lose any apparent RL though we have seen her
attempt a vacation in Maine and attend an interrupted Christmas with her
family.
NJP
GammaBunny
Never Again. That rocked!!!!!
We've been talking about Mulder's
darkside, but what about Scully's?
Was she out-of-control in Never Again,
or what?. ;D
I won't mind seeing rebellious!Scully
or KickAss!Scully again.
You go girl!
GammaBunny
<I agree that it would be fascinating, but unless you were going
to focus on Dad's military involvement, there's really nothing that
directly relates to an X-File in her childhood/young adulthood. An
entire episode devoted to Scully's past would be purely character,
and I not sure 1013 would swing it. Too normal. ;) Although, they
might come up with something clever as to why she's "the chosen
one." If we're to believe the mythology, she became Mulder's
partner and an abductee for a very specific reason. Hmmm...>
Speaking about the dark side of Scully, you know
what would be interesting to see? Why she choose
the FBI instead of the medical profession. There must
be more to this story than hinted at thus far in the
X-Files. I suspect our lovely Scully has some "dark"
moments in her past.
Why does she fall for brooding & mysterious men or
controlling men for that matter? What event caused
her to turn her back on the church? Does she have a
personal a NEED for justice because of her own brush
with injustice? If so, what was it? Was going to the
FBI a form of rebellion? And lastly, Is her commitment
to the X-Files about more than just integrity, dedication
and her loyalty to Mulder?
(Is this another manifestation of Scully rebellion?)
I know I'm just asking questions, but I think there could
easily be a future episode about Scully's past, perhaps
her teenage years. Something traumatic could have
happened to her that changed the course of her life,
affecting her beliefs, career choice, and the type of
people she likes to befriend.
What do you think, am I too far out there?
Oh wait.... don't answer that. ;)
gB
Cavale:
<"The Bunny" was another chilling example that
I loved the symbolism behind.>
Oh great... you HAD to bring that up. *giggle giggle*
;p
lynx mulderite
>
> >Nowhere is the skeptic/believer formula more apparent than in the movie
> >when Carter has Scully staring at the snow as an alien craft bigger than
> >the fu*king Astrodome sails past. There's a line between skepticism and
> >out right anti-belief and when 1013 crosses it they do the rational,
> >intelligent Dana Scully *and* the their audience an injustice. I don't think
> >I'll be able to stand it if 1013 hauls Scully right back to square one
> >next season.
> >
> >Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
>
> But Scully DOES see the ship. She just has no reason to think it's
> extraterrestrial at this point.
Well, there's *some* reason - is it likely that the technology required
to slowly accelerate a bazillion ton *thing* from beneath the surface of
the ice to disappear into the clouds is terrestrial?
> Scully back to square one? With her fight to keep the XF open, her
> defiance of the Bureau mainstream? Her open declaration that her work
> is with Mulder now? Her "I see it" "I see it."
I'm with you - she saw it - now she's got to deal with it. ;-)
> I don't see it!
<g>
--
lynx
mulderite HPotMMs
"I don't wanna wrestle"
Goo Bee Goo Bee Do
lynx mulderite
>
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.980726142406.25600B-100000@telnet>, David Courtland
> <par...@telnet.humboldt1.com> writes:
>
> >ends
> >> of the earth for you (and I'm talking BEFORE the movie) and you can't see
> >that
> >> he is in love with you? Ok, so you think that he's a jerk. But how do you
> >have
> >> a life that is devoid of warm human contact (no boyfriends, hell, no any
> >kind
> >> of friends) and still function? I'm sure even Jana Cassidy has some friends
> >to
> >> hang out with during her time off. Scully vacations alone. She does
> >EVERYTHING
> >> alone. Is she really such a loner? And why does that bother me?
> >
> >I'd bet her lack of a social life has something to do with whatever
> >prompted her to walk away from the Church and a medical career. I think
> >there's clearly some pivotal traumatic in her past that left her as
> >affected as Samantha's abduction left Mulder.
>
> talking about her present. There are a few examples of Scully having a private
> life in the first season. She *did* stuff with other people. But lately she
> has become isolated (or she *seems* isolated....we don't see enough to know)
> primarily due to her job. It seems that in Season 1 she was an adult with
> friends and dates. It is only in the last couple of years that she has become
> a loner. That said, I do think that there is something in her past that causes
> her to be emotionally closed off a lot of the time. I just think that her
> current state of affairs can be attributed to her work load with Mulder. And
> everything she has seen.
>
It seemed to me that part of the answer to this was in Christmas Carol -
so I toddled over to Deep Background and found Scully's quote in her
conversation with the adoption agency woman:
Susan (adoption agency woman):"You're a single woman who's never been
married or had a long- term relationship. You're in a
high-stress,time-intensive and *dangerous* occupation; one that I sense
you're deeply committed to. And, one which would, overnight, become the
secondary priority to the care and well-being of this child. I'm not
sure this is a sacrifice you're prepared to make."
Scully: "Well, it's one that I've given agreat deal of thought to. I
mean, to be honest, I've started to question my priorities since I was
first diagnosed with
cancer...and I feel like I've been given a second chance. Ever since I
was a child, I've...I've...I've never allowed myself to get too close to
people. I've avoided emotional attachments. Perhaps I've been so afraid
of death and dying
that any connection just seemed like a bad thing; something that
wouldn't last. But...but I don't feel that any more."
So - whatever it is that keeps her closed off has been with her, at
least in *her* mind, since childhood. Ya know, some of us (OK, me) are
just loners - even though we have relationships, the emotional
connection (with those outside of family) is difficult. This is one of
the reasons I think Scully and Mulder would be good for each other -
they're *both* loners. They would give each other space (which is what I
think makes the commitment to a relationship difficult for one who needs
that space) - while still providing the emotional support and
acceptance. [oh yeah, and sex - even us loners like that ;-)] Of
course, Scully *says* that her emotional reticence may be because of
fear of loss/death - but that may be only in regard to her cancer
experience. Thus, she may have had a childhood relationship cut short by
death - or, she's not delving into these early causes.
Konrad Douglas Frye
>Alexa James wrote:
>> But Scully DOES see the ship. She just has no reason to think it's
>> extraterrestrial at this point.
>Well, there's *some* reason - is it likely that the technology required
>to slowly accelerate a bazillion ton *thing* from beneath the surface of
>the ice to disappear into the clouds is terrestrial?
No kidding <g> I brought that up in an email to Alexa. We're talking about
something that would be an absolutely *unparalled* marvel of science and
engineering. The cost of the venture alone would be beyond any government's
capabilities.
Then there's the little problem of keeping the whole thing secret for
several decades while tens of thousands of people work in one of the
most inhospitable climates on earth on the damn project. Changing a tire
in a Canadian winter is hard enough!
Oh yeah, don't be bothered by the fact that the technology to silently
levitate something bigger than the Houston Astrodome is a few years away.
All the same, I'm willing to entertain Dr. Scully's theories (CC's
theories) on the subject. Maybe the Aurura project got some extra
funding ;)
I just hope CC doesn't have Scully embarass herself with a completely
illogical rationalization next season for what she saw. I'd take the
"I was passed out" excuse over something like that.
CavaleC
>Speaking about the dark side of Scully, you know
>what would be interesting to see? Why she choose
>the FBI instead of the medical profession.
Before you even get to that, why her particular medical field? I think it was
Lynn who just quoted from the CC/emily arc about Scully avoiding emotional
attachments. And while they're supposed to remain clinically detached, don't
"the good doctors" form emotional bonds to their patients? Scully's a good
doctor. If she has issues with losing those she cares about, I can see why she
might have chose forensic pathology, where those fears cease to exist. Of
course, that's not the ONLY reason. (I could see a bunch of you about to hit
the reply button in irritation. ;) She's a brilliant scientist -- her skills
are well-used and she knows it.
(You know, there's very good fanfic where Scully explains to Mulder why she
became a pathologist while she's doing an autopsy. Wish I could remember the
name/author. Anyone know what I'm talking about?)
The decision to join the FBI is more confusing to me. I wonder if there was a
draw to work in the government due to her father's military involvement.
Scully says herself it was an effort to distinguish herself.
>There must be more to this story than hinted at thus far in the
>X-Files. I suspect our lovely Scully has some "dark"
>moments in her past. Why does she fall for brooding & mysterious men or
>controlling men for that matter?
I think "controlling men" fits even more, and that was explained rather nicely
in Never Again. Oh, how I love that episode.
>What event caused her to turn her back on the church?
This, above all, really interests me. She never takes that cross off. Now,
while it holds personal significance because her mother gave it to her, its
meaning as a symbol must have changed over the course of her life. I think
that her lapsed Catholic status seems more religiously based than spiritually
based, however. They're two different things, and Scully's spiritual plane is
an entirely singular phenomenom.
> And lastly, Is her commitment
>to the X-Files about more than just integrity, dedication
>and her loyalty to Mulder?
>(Is this another manifestation of Scully rebellion?)
I think the X-Files themselves made her committment more than just about the
above. It's a history now, a living, growing part of her that each day
insinuates itself more into her being. But as to initial commitment? Who
knows why? Maybe you're right. Perhaps CC knows *exactly* why Scully joined
the X-Files, and that rebellion will be explained later on. Of course, if
there are any takers in here, I'd love to hear your opinions...
>What do you think, am I too far out there?
>Oh wait.... don't answer that. ;)
Yes. Too late.
><"The Bunny" was another chilling example that
>I loved the symbolism behind.>
>
>Oh great... you HAD to bring that up. *giggle giggle*
Oh sorry, sorry. I had rabbits TOO, you know.
trh1-at-cris-dot-com
> The decision to join the FBI is more confusing to me. I wonder if there was a
> draw to work in the government due to her father's military involvement.
> Scully says herself it was an effort to distinguish herself.
I think I can offer a theory on what motivated Scully to join the
FBI... During the J Edgar Hoover days and for a long time after his reign,
a majority of the FBI's G-men were Irish and Catholic (A lot of Holy Cross
and Boston College graduates in the FBI's ranks in those days I believe)--
The Bureau's inside joke is that an FBI agent is the next best thing to
the clergy if you need someone to confide in.
In the Irish-American community, a career in the FBI is considered
a very respected calling, a perception I think may have influenced
Scully as someone of Irish heritage and Catholic faith. This career
choice also goes hand-in-hand with her idealism (in FTF she told molder
that she joined the FBI hoping to make a difference). From an
Irish-American's point of view, I think it makes sense, sort of.. =)
Richlieu
Bennett
>
> In <35BBB103...@prodigy.net> bubbela <Chr...@prodigy.net> writes:
>
> >Alexa James wrote:
> >>
> >> Cavale:
> >Similarly, just because Scully said she saw a ship doesn't mean she
> >really did. Since she is barely able to pick her head up off the ice, > >it didn't seem possible that she actually saw it flying away. She > > >may havesaid she did simply to comfort Mulder, who so desperately > > >*wanted* her to see it.
>
> I think Carter commented in a recent interview that Scully said no > > such thing. I'm surprised because I'm certain she did (the theatres > I've seen the movie in all had fantastic surround sound setups). > Whatever the truth of the matter is I'm pissed that CC had Scully > staring at the snow. It just seemed like such a season 1 thing to do.
>
Y'know, I've seen the movie twice (both times in same theatre, mind you)
and I didn't hear her say it either time. And the 2nd time I saw the
film, I was actually listening for it. To me it just sounded as if she
groaned.
Gee, I guess I'll have to go see it again. What a hardship! <g>
Bryn
> -----
> Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
> Computer Engineering IV
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Life...is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless,
> perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for". - Cancer Man -
> "Keep going FBI woman" - Fox Mulder -
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
We're just wild about Harry! And the X-Files!
Come visit us at the Ford Focused Philes Website:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4858
Alexa James
>least in *her* mind, since childhood. Ya know, some of us (OK, me) are
>just loners - even though we have relationships, the emotional
>connection (with those outside of family) is difficult. This is one of
>the reasons I think Scully and Mulder would be good for each other -
>they're *both* loners. They would give each other space (which is what I
>think makes the commitment to a relationship difficult for one who needs
>that space) - while still providing the emotional support and
>acceptance. [oh yeah, and sex - even us loners like that ;-)] Of
>course, Scully *says* that her emotional reticence may be because of
>fear of loss/death - but that may be only in regard to her cancer
>experience. Thus, she may have had a childhood relationship cut short by
>death - or, she's not delving into these early causes.
>--
>lynx
>mulderite HPotMMs
Being a loner as well, it's been my experience that when I finally do
allow myself to become emotionally attached to someone, "space" is the
last thing I'm able to give. Instead, I load every emotional need
onto the one person who has my trust and completely overwhelm them.
I can see Scully and/or Mulder doing that, too, once they finally
"consummate" their relationship. Mulder does it to some extent
already - his constant anxiety over where she is shows his dependence
as do a myriad of other things in their relationship. And Scully
can't even go on vacation without calling him on her cell phone every
half an hour. I'm not sure either of them giving each other any
space. I could definitely see them becoming hopelessly codependent,
though....
Alexa
Aka...@my-dejanews.com
SNIP
I think it was Spotnitz who said, "Having Scully believe would give
> us a very, very dull show."
> SNIP
You put your finger on what Scully's skepticism contributes to
the show.
But is she still believable after all this time? I think so, because I
see Scully a little differently. To me, she's not only a skeptic, but
a contrarian. She has to argue and play devil's advocate.
Mulder says potayto, she says potahto. It's her nature. You've
surely known people like this; they can be delightful as well as
exasperating.
That's why the eye-rolling still makes sense.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Aka...@my-dejanews.com
> Here's a few snippets from a roundtable interview Frank Spotnitz
> did after season 4 concluded:
SNIPS
> Spotnitz:...Penn and Teller came in a couple years ago and wanted to
> do a show where science won. But a show like that wouldn't be satisfying
> dramatically. ... [T]o have the sense of wonder defeated at the end is
> not what you want.
This man's science teachers must be rolling over in their beakers.
Science *defeats* a sense of wonder? This would be startling
news to the world's scientists.
It cannot be *that* difficult to write even one episode in which
Scully is right, Mulder is wrong, and yet we marvel at the result.
Bl...@ix.netcom.com
I don't believe it was an isolated event... I think that as Scully
attended med school and explored life outside the traditions of her
family, it became less of a priority to her. Also, as a physics major
and med student, faith and knowledge must have become more and more
difficult for her to reconcile. In summation... I don't think she
'turned her back' so much as she just... drifted, as she said in
"Revelations".
As for the cross... it does have familial significance, but also
religious as well. No matter how far you "drift", it's very hard to
abandon the tenets you were raised on... I think because her slacking
off religiously was a very passive movement on her part, she simply
never thought to take the necklace off. Wearing it was habit, something
she'd done since 15, and it represented a faith and a family that is an
intrinsic part of her.
Now that I've babbled, I'll toss out my big ponderance...
In Christmas Carol, Scully remarks on how she's always been very afraid
of "Death and dying". Odd for a pathologist, eh? Was becoming a
pathologist some sort of subconscious proving of herself - that she
could overcome her fears? What are the opinions being floated?
overtalkative,
-chupacabra
Konrad Douglas Frye
> umfr...@cc.UManitoba.CA (Konrad Douglas Frye) wrote:
>> Here's a few snippets from a roundtable interview Frank Spotnitz
>> did after season 4 concluded:
>SNIPS
>> Spotnitz:...Penn and Teller came in a couple years ago and wanted to
>> do a show where science won. But a show like that wouldn't be satisfying
>> dramatically. ... [T]o have the sense of wonder defeated at the end is
>> not what you want.
>This man's science teachers must be rolling over in their beakers.
>Science *defeats* a sense of wonder? This would be startling
>news to the world's scientists.
It's tough to break away from formula I guess. Assuming Spotnitz's
attidude mirrors that of the other writers it's unlikely things are going
to change anytime soon.
In a universe where Mulder is "invariably right" one wonders just how
long a scientist like Scully can continue to bang her head against the
wall. Somebody should really tell the poor Dr. Scully that the deck is
rigged and the fix is in ;)
>It cannot be *that* difficult to write even one episode in which
>Scully is right, Mulder is wrong, and yet we marvel at the result.
It's not. 'Revelations', 'All Souls', and to a certain extent the Darin
Morgan episodes are all examples of stories that do a wonderful job at
turning the tables a little bit. I don't see what would be wrong with
turning them completely over and writing an episode where "science
won". The bold change of pace alone would be fun. The writers are just
afraid to try imho.
Darin was particularly good at writing Scully. Even when she was wrong
her alternative hypotheses were intelligent and well reasoned. If
the writers insist that Mulder has to be right every week they at least
owe her that courtesy.
Autumn T
(Konrad Douglas Frye) writes:
>>It cannot be *that* difficult to write even one episode in which
>>Scully is right, Mulder is wrong, and yet we marvel at the result.
>
>It's not. 'Revelations', 'All Souls', and to a certain extent the Darin
>Morgan episodes are all examples of stories that do a wonderful job at
>turning the tables a little bit. I don't see what would be wrong with
>turning them completely over and writing an episode where "science
>won". The bold change of pace alone would be fun. The writers are just
>afraid to try imho.
You're right. I asked Spotnitz about this myself at the NY Expo and it was
clear he DID NOT get it. I told him I'd heard the old excuse about it being
more interesting for Mulder to be right, but Darin Morgan did not seem to have
a problem with making Scully right and his episodes were quite successful.
Spotnitz stammered "All Souls". I thanked him for that but asked for it to
happen a little more often. To be honest, I just don't think the boys at 1013
get it.
Autumn Tysko
Sister of OBSSE / "I owe you everything Scully and you owe me nothing"
My episode reviews available at (email me for mailing list info):
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1411/main_rev.html
Matt Hale
>
> > And lastly, Is her commitment
> >to the X-Files about more than just integrity, dedication
> >and her loyalty to Mulder?
> >(Is this another manifestation of Scully rebellion?)
>
> I think the X-Files themselves made her committment more than just about the
> above. It's a history now, a living, growing part of her that each day
> insinuates itself more into her being. But as to initial commitment? Who
> knows why? Maybe you're right. Perhaps CC knows *exactly* why Scully joined
> the X-Files, and that rebellion will be explained later on. Of course, if
> there are any takers in here, I'd love to hear your opinions...
>
This seems kind of a funny question to ask, in a way. The answer is THE
SHOW, isn't it? Hasn't this question been the content of show since the
start? First off, Scully didn't join the X-Files, she was assigned to
them. But the question is, why have they become so important in her
life. We have watched as they consumed her life over five years. Of
course, part of the answer is that Mulder has become very important to
her and the X-Files are important to him but I think it's a real mistake
to stop there.
I think that one thing that should come up far more often than it does
in regards to Scully is the fact that she absolutely LOVES the work.
She craves it; she needs it. She has on many occasions -- most notably
at her worst moments: her father and sister's deaths, when she was
diagnosed -- referred to this job as her only solace. Regardless of
what she says, it's all over her face. From the pilot, she has been
absolutely fascinated with the sheer insanity of the job and the
challenge of finding some logic within it. Even though it has been more
than exasperating at times and she has gotten down right annoyed, she
has maintained a real affection for finding the science in the
fantastic.
At the risk of going on a bit of a tangent here, I feel this leads
directly to (and would be an incomplete thought without addressing) a
bit of discussion about the change in this regard since Emily. As many
people have said, season five was very much about shifting Mulder and
Scully's roles and, more importantly, a sense of disillusionment. There
has been a lot of talk about the reversal of the believer/skeptic roles
but I think that a far more interesting and jarring shift in Scully was
her feelings toward work. Mulder's loss of faith was a dramatic
contrast with the Mulder that we've known whereas Scully's willingness
to accept more fantastic ideas has been gradually happening since late
in season one. I didn't find Scully's openness the least bit shocking.
I think that both of the characters experienced major disillusionment in
season five. This manifested itself in Mulder's loss of faith and
Scully's indifference toward and even contempt for the job that she
loves. This WAS shocking. A lot of people (I remember Heidi's comments
most explicitly) went through a period of anger toward Scully or toward
the writers or GA for their presentation of Scully. A lot of people
said "I just don't like Scully right now."
I never disliked Scully, I felt sad for her. She lost the one thing
that got her through so many painful times. How many times have we
heard Scully say " I NEED to work." After Emily, she lost that drive.
I actually think there were indications of this coming in Detour as
well. After living through cancer, I think she wanted to look into
really LIVING. Living a life outside of work, exploring her
relationship with Mulder as a person that she loves outside of this
"quest" that they have fallen into. She wanted to work through that
list of fears she mentioned in XMC. She wanted to make connections
regardless of the risk. Then Emily died. Her first real attempt and
look what happened. I think this sent a very damaging message to her
subconscious that she was right to close herself off all along.
So, in an attempt to live outside of work she had to devalue work a bit
and when that failed she was left with nothing at all.
So, what happens in the movie? She finds a reason to reinvest herself
in the job. Namely, potentially saving millions of lives. It's no
longer the abstract "work" that she could always come to for solace but
something more solid that can, maybe, provide an even more satisfying
emotional center.
Just as Mulder regains his faith in a more tangible form (the ship),
Scully regains her love of the job in a more tangible form. So, see,
the entire 5th season *was* a preview for the movie; it just had nothing
to do with the mytharc. :-)
Matt Hale
hale...@earthlink.net
CavaleC
<hale...@earthlink.net> writes:
>CavaleC wrote:
>> I think the X-Files themselves made her committment more than just about
>the above. It's a history now, a living, growing part of her that each day
>> insinuates itself more into her being. But as to initial commitment? Who
>> knows why? Maybe you're right. Perhaps CC knows *exactly* why Scully
>joined the X-Files, and that rebellion will be explained later on. Of course,
if
>> there are any takers in here, I'd love to hear your opinions...
>This seems kind of a funny question to ask, in a way. The answer is THE
>SHOW, isn't it? Hasn't this question been the content of show since the
>start? First off, Scully didn't join the X-Files, she was assigned to
>them. But the question is, why have they become so important in her
>life. We have watched as they consumed her life over five years. <SNIP>
I think your excellent analysis answered my exact question, though my wording
may have been wrong/confusing and I apologize. However, I think it's slightly
insulting to label someone's question "funny," don't you?
-Cavale
swikstr
> You're right. I asked Spotnitz about this myself at the NY Expo and it was
> clear he DID NOT get it. I told him I'd heard the old excuse about it being
> more interesting for Mulder to be right, but Darin Morgan did not seem to have
> a problem with making Scully right and his episodes were quite successful.
> Spotnitz stammered "All Souls". I thanked him for that but asked for it to
> happen a little more often. To be honest, I just don't think the boys at 1013
> get it.
In addition to 'not getting it,' it would seem that they have short memory spans
as well.
It's very interesting to me that Spotnitz would come up with a lame example such
as AS, considering he himself wrote an episode with a wonderful blend of both
Mulder's and Scully's separate philosophies having an impact.
I'm talking about End Game, one of the better portrayals of Scully in the series
history imho, and one of the better myth eps. The power and significance of
science was stated pretty clearly in the closing monologue by Scully herself, in
combination with a pretty stiff dose of Mulder's own reaffirmation of his beliefs.
It makes you wonder why 1013 has abandoned the scientific potential of the "Purity
Control" story arc that appeared in EF, C/EG, RM, and to a lesser extent, FTF.
Well, maybe abandon is too strong a term. But the potential is there to highlight
the benefits of science to the cause, i.e. fighting the colonists. It just never
seems to get any momentum going.
Scully speaks to this in the closing moments of FTF when she talks of finding a
cure for the mysterious human-eating virus, but I have a disturbing suspicion that
this will be lost in the shuffle, as always, once the new season begins.
A pity...
-swikstr
--
"So what I'm left with is...
...an FBI agent that likes to take off all his clothes and talk about space
aliens."
- Det. John Munch
The X Files, 'Unusual Suspects'
Alexa James
>of "Death and dying". Odd for a pathologist, eh? Was becoming a
>pathologist some sort of subconscious proving of herself - that she
>could overcome her fears? What are the opinions being floated?
>
>overtalkative,
>-chupacabra
>
I always say her choice to pursue forensic medicine as a way of
avoiding personal relationships. It's hard to get emotionally
involved with a cadaver. (Not impossible, mind you, if you saw the
indie movie Kissed a few years ago....).
Alexa
Marvin Long, Jr.
On 28 Jul 1998, CavaleC wrote:
>
> The decision to join the FBI is more confusing to me. I wonder if there was a
> draw to work in the government due to her father's military involvement.
> Scully says herself it was an effort to distinguish herself.
My gut tells me that Scully joined the FBI because she needs to be an
agent of justice. If we suppose that something "dark" happened in
Scully's past to cause her to become a loner and which damaged her faith,
then it would make sense for her to join the FBI so that she can do what
God seems not to do - catch and punish the wicked. I think that Scully's
stubborn resistence - despite her experiences - to the notion of aliens
has as much to do with the need for justice as it does with her scientific
perspective. If aliens are attacking people, how can justice be had? How
do earthlings punish a vastly more powerful starfaring race? We can't.
But if people are the cause, then they can be caught and dealt with.
Scully needs to know that justice is going to be had when all is said and
done, and since she can't trust anyone else, even God, to provide that
justice, she is resolved to do it herself.
(Which reminds me. When Scully shoots the homicidal bell-boy in "Clyde
Bruckman" does she not look just like the perfect avenging angel? Fiery
red hair, glowing green eyes with stark black pupils, cloak spread out
like wings...holy frijoles!)
I think that Mulder, by contrast, gave up on justice a long time ago, and
is only recently returning to it as a motivation, prompted in this
direction by Scully. If Samantha was snatched by aliens, then again, what
is the possibility of justice? The most he can hope for is understanding,
"the truth." Scully doesn't want just the truth, she wants the answers.
:) She wants the motive and the M.O. and the perp. It's only when
Mulder's faith in aliens is crushed, when he starts to believe that the
culprits are human, does the issue of justice start to *really* motivate
him. And, perhaps, the possibility of revenge.
> I think the X-Files themselves made her committment more than just about the
> above. It's a history now, a living, growing part of her that each day
> insinuates itself more into her being. But as to initial commitment? Who
> knows why? Maybe you're right. Perhaps CC knows *exactly* why Scully joined
> the X-Files, and that rebellion will be explained later on. Of course, if
> there are any takers in here, I'd love to hear your opinions...
The answer to this seems fairly clear to me: she was assigned to the
X-Files, just as shown in ep. 1. She was excited by the idea of working
with one of the FBI's most brilliant and decorated agents, Mulder. I've
never had the impression that when she started working with Mulder she
assumed that he was full of BS; maybe she saw a chance to learn some
fascinating things while possibly helping someone who needed it - a
chance to help salvage the career of a brilliant but wayward coworker.
And for her scientific mind, the opportunity of working with the really
weird criminals might have been more attractive than doing autopsies on
your run-of-the-mill victims of kidnapping, bank robbery, etc. There seem
to be a host of plausible and ordinary reasons for her to start on the
X-Files, but it boils down to this: she was assigned the job, and the
work was interesting.
As for why she *stayed* with the X-Files after being abducted and
thoroughly weirded out, I attribute that to morbid fascination. :) I
mean, working with Mulder has to be nothing if not gripping. Also, I'm
sure that her scientific side, once engaged, simply couldn't give up on
the idea that if she worked at it long enough, she would be able to find
"a reasonable explanation for this." It also became clear to her over
time that her superiors didn't really want the facts, they wanted a good
excuse to shut Mulder down. It's not in Scully's character to pretend she
has a good explanation of, or debunking of, the facts when she knows she
doesn't. She stayed with the X-Files by default.
There's my $0.02....
Toodles,
Marvin Long - Austin, TX - m...@fc.net
"Too little temptation can lead to virtue."
Alexa James
>>Scully is right, Mulder is wrong, and yet we marvel at the result.
>
>It's not. 'Revelations', 'All Souls', and to a certain extent the Darin
>Morgan episodes are all examples of stories that do a wonderful job at
>turning the tables a little bit. I don't see what would be wrong with
>turning them completely over and writing an episode where "science
>won". The bold change of pace alone would be fun. The writers are just
>afraid to try imho.
>
Okay, having nothing better to do with my life at the moment, I just
did a very cursory study on Scully vs Mulder in the case solution
department. This list only goes through season 4 because that's all
the ep summaries I have. Feel free, of course, to add to it and argue
as you like.
Here's the (short) list I've come up with in which Scully's view of
the world prevailed in a significant way:
Squeeze - Scully's profile, much to Mulder's surprise, turns out to be
the correct one and they find Tooms in the air vent
Eve - Mulder is pushing the alien abduction angle, but the more down
to earth DNA explanation winds up being the correct one. More to the
point, Scully says in the car, "I was beginning to suspect the girls."
Mulder says, "No." But, of course, Scully is correct.
Fire - Well, other than hypothezing out that L'vely has the power to
set fires, Mulder is pretty much useless in this one, preoccupied as
he with carnal issues. Scully's the one who does the legwork, tracks
down the accelerant, IDs L'vely, etc.
Beyond the Sea - Mulder insistes Boggs is a fake. Scully insists he's
not. Scully, in the end, is right.
Dod Kalm - Mulder thinks it's a Bermuda triangle/UFO phenomenon and
later, a time travel thing. But Scully solves the case with the
accelerated aging theory.
Humbug - The Fiji Mermaid? Nope. Scully solves this one, too. "Now
you know how I feel." - Mulder
Clyde B. - Yes, it's Mulder who believes in the psychic abilities of
Clyde, but Scully gets points here for her intuitive leap in naming
the bellboy as the murderer.
Revelations - as has been discussed above
and from season 5, of course, All Souls
Okay, not exactly an even split, but at least she does get to be right
once in awhile....
Alexa
Konrad Douglas Frye
>Okay, having nothing better to do with my life at the moment, I just
>did a very cursory study on Scully vs Mulder in the case solution
>department. This list only goes through season 4 because that's all
>the ep summaries I have. Feel free, of course, to add to it and argue
>as you like.
>Here's the (short) list I've come up with in which Scully's view of
>the world prevailed in a significant way:
>Squeeze - Scully's profile, much to Mulder's surprise, turns out to be
>the correct one and they find Tooms in the air vent
Really pushing it here. Tooms was after all a 100 year old hibernating
mutant with a taste for liver.
>Eve - Mulder is pushing the alien abduction angle, but the more down
>to earth DNA explanation winds up being the correct one. More to the
>point, Scully says in the car, "I was beginning to suspect the girls."
>Mulder says, "No." But, of course, Scully is correct.
Eve is probably the episode that comes closest to a down to earth
scientific explanation for the events of the episode. Guess what Frank,
Chris thought it was good enough to release on video.
>Fire - Well, other than hypothezing out that L'vely has the power to
>set fires, Mulder is pretty much useless in this one, preoccupied as
>he with carnal issues. Scully's the one who does the legwork, tracks
>down the accelerant, IDs L'vely, etc.
Pushing it here too. Mulder's theory was the correct one and that's the
real issue.
>Beyond the Sea - Mulder insistes Boggs is a fake. Scully insists he's
>not. Scully, in the end, is right.
Not an episode where "science wins" but at least Scully's belief in
Boggs was right.
>Dod Kalm - Mulder thinks it's a Bermuda triangle/UFO phenomenon and
>later, a time travel thing. But Scully solves the case with the
>accelerated aging theory.
Not quite as good an example as Eve but it deserves to be on the list.
>Humbug - The Fiji Mermaid? Nope. Scully solves this one, too. "Now
>you know how I feel." - Mulder
Well, they both came across as being a little goofy. As I said before
though, Darin strikes a good balance in his episodes.
>Clyde B. - Yes, it's Mulder who believes in the psychic abilities of
>Clyde, but Scully gets points here for her intuitive leap in naming
>the bellboy as the murderer.
Gee, another Darin episode. Pay attention Frank ;)
>Revelations - as has been discussed above
>and from season 5, of course, All Souls
All Souls and Revelations pretty much fall into the same boat. On
religious matters the tables always seem to turn.
>Okay, not exactly an even split, but at least she does get to be right
>once in awhile....
I'd say Squeeze and Fire are really pushing it but the others make up a
pretty good list. There are of course episodes where neither
Mulder or Scully come up with a theory as well as episodes that fall into
that grey area where the answer is left up in the air.
But an episode where science "defeats" the paranormal? With the possible
exception of Eve such a thing is almost unheard of.
Michael P. Walsh
Alexa James wrote:
> >>It cannot be *that* difficult to write even one episode in which
> >>Scully is right, Mulder is wrong, and yet we marvel at the result.
> >
>
(Snipped some other Scully was right data)
My favorite was "Our Town" where Mulder thought the circular
burned areas were UFO landing sites and Scully said they
looked more like cooking fires. Scully was right.
Of course, early in the game it wasn't clear what they
were cooking.
Mike Walsh
NkPiii
NJP
Jane of Boredom
>
> Face it, gang. She's the Hamilton Burger of her generation....
>
> NJP
Oh, that's so depressing. Sure, he put a good face
on, always saying, "No, I don't object your honor;
I want the truth as much as Mr Mason here..." but
eventually one has to wonder: how ever did he keep
his job with such a terrible conviction rate?
This also goes as evidence towards the
Scully-as-second-banana theory. Did they call it
"the Hamilton Burger and Perry Mason show"?
No-o-o-o.
GeoRed
>Just as Mulder regains his faith in a more tangible form (the ship),
>Scully regains her love of the job in a more tangible form. So, see,
>the entire 5th season *was* a preview for the movie; it just had nothing
>to do with the mytharc. :-)
That was very nicely put. I still get angry at Scully when I think of the last
half of the season. I *understand* why Scully is acting the way she was....I
don't have to like it though. ;-) When you think about it, it is never easy to
like someone who is drifting and disillusioned.....they would have a tendency
to bring you down and their attitude would be annoying. Especially to someone
like myself, a mainly upbeat and positive person.
Heidi
::::::::with head in hands, rocking slowly::::::::::
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter."
<Mulder: He's not just lean.......he's cuisine.>
GeoRed
>It cannot be *that* difficult to write even one episode in which
>Scully is right, Mulder is wrong, and yet we marvel at the result.
>
>
Ummm......it may be if you are not a scientist.
GeoRed
>>It cannot be *that* difficult to write even one episode in which
>>Scully is right, Mulder is wrong, and yet we marvel at the result.
>
>It's not. 'Revelations', 'All Souls', and to a certain extent the Darin
>Morgan episodes are all examples of stories that do a wonderful job at
>turning the tables a little bit. I don't see what would be wrong with
>turning them completely over and writing an episode where "science
>won". The bold change of pace alone would be fun. The writers are just
>afraid to try imho.
>
>
The problem here being that those episodes don't deal with *science*....and we
are talking about science winning, right? You are right.....they are afraid to
try and I don't blame them. Science in general, and many disciplines
specifically, are not easy to write realistically. The potential for a major
screw up is that much greater for a bunch of non-scientist writers. There is
much to fear there......not to mention a *ton* of research that would be
required. I don't blame them for being afraid....if the idea bores them, it
very likely will bore a large portion of their audience. <Note to writers....if
you decide to do something geologically oriented again, *please* call me. I
would be more than happy to consult for a minor fee ;-)>
mcki...@my-dejanews.com
geo...@aol.com (GeoRed) wrote:
> The problem here being that those episodes don't deal with *science*....and we
> try and I don't blame them. Science in general, and many disciplines
> specifically, are not easy to write realistically. The potential for a major
> screw up is that much greater for a bunch of non-scientist writers. There is
> much to fear there......not to mention a *ton* of research that would be
> required. I don't blame them for being afraid....if the idea bores them, it
> very likely will bore a large portion of their audience.
All shows, for dramatic effect and ease of story telling, slough over
details in science and various professions that are only painful to those
of us in those particular areas. Even with the "ton" of research, science
is such a hotly debated field that simply picking the wrong authority source
could get you reviled by the opposing camp. <g> Science is a very combative
and competitive field. Not for the weak or easily intimidated. <g>
I happen to love the episode "Der Hand..." but I wince every time I see
Mulder casually scanning the check-out record of the book on witchcraft
in the high school library. Librarians have gone to jail to prevent that
sort of thing happening. It usually requires a court order and several
weeks of wrangling to get the check-out records of a single book, even
when the magic words 'national security' are waved in front of the
offending librarian. Mulder apparently simply walked in and asked.
<sigh>
Did I want to see Mulder and Scully stymied for over a week by a stubborn
librarian concerned about protecting her patrons' privacy? No.
Realism has to take a backseat to the flow of a story. I imagine the
same thing must happen in regards to science. Beside, The X-Files is
not about science, but about the paranormal. I think Scully is right
often enough to keep her from becoming simply a foil, but ultimately
the show is about the paranormal, the things most scientists either
cannot or will not explore.
--
Joyce - the incurable romantic
MDL * SABAR * SASR * LGEB
Matt Hale
>
> In article <35BEF6F3...@earthlink.net>, Matt Hale
> <hale...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
> >> I think the X-Files themselves made her committment more than just about
> >the above. It's a history now, a living, growing part of her that each day
> >> insinuates itself more into her being. But as to initial commitment? Who
> >> knows why? Maybe you're right. Perhaps CC knows *exactly* why Scully
> >joined the X-Files, and that rebellion will be explained later on. Of course,
> if
> >> there are any takers in here, I'd love to hear your opinions...
>
>
> I think your excellent analysis answered my exact question, though my wording
> may have been wrong/confusing and I apologize. However, I think it's slightly
> insulting to label someone's question "funny," don't you?
>
I didn't mean it that way at all. I'm very sorry about that. "Funny"
was a bad choice. I didn't mean LOL funny or stupid funny or anything
like that. I really only meant that it was a question with a five year
answer. It's a great question. It's such a HUGE question. It couldn't
have sparked a brilliant TV show if it wasn't.
Now I feel like shit. I'm sorry about that.
Matt Hale
hale...@earthlink.net
Alexa James
>My favorite was "Our Town" where Mulder thought the circular
>burned areas were UFO landing sites and Scully said they
>looked more like cooking fires. Scully was right.
>
>Of course, early in the game it wasn't clear what they
>were cooking.
>
>Mike Walsh
>
>
>
eating human flesh kept the town from aging? Scully didn't buy it,
but Mulder was right.
Alexa
Alexa James
>>Squeeze - Scully's profile, much to Mulder's surprise, turns out to be
>>the correct one and they find Tooms in the air vent
>
>Really pushing it here. Tooms was after all a 100 year old hibernating
>mutant with a taste for liver.
Agreed. Mulder's theory was definitely the correct one. But i
included it because Mulder was so surprised (and a little put out)
that Scully's profile is the right one. ALso, it's one of the first
eps, so obviously they had in mind right from the start that Scully
wouldn't be completely wrong about everything all the time.
>>Fire - Well, other than hypothezing out that L'vely has the power to
>>set fires, Mulder is pretty much useless in this one, preoccupied as
>>he with carnal issues. Scully's the one who does the legwork, tracks
>>down the accelerant, IDs L'vely, etc.
>
Konrad:
>Pushing it here too. Mulder's theory was the correct one and that's the
>real issue.
True, but his theory in this case seems a little flippant in the sense
that other than verbalize it, he doesn't do a heck of a lot to prove
it. So I figured Scully deserved points for picking up the slack!
(Hey, pickins' are scarce. We gotta give Scully points anywhere we
can find them!)
konrad:
>I'd say Squeeze and Fire are really pushing it but the others make up a
>pretty good list. There are of course episodes where neither
>Mulder or Scully come up with a theory as well as episodes that fall into
>that grey area where the answer is left up in the air.
>
Yeah, I noticed a lot of eps where they were both wrong or there were
grey areas, but I was going for obvious or close to obvious Scully
triumphs!
konrad:
>But an episode where science "defeats" the paranormal? With the possible
>exception of Eve such a thing is almost unheard of.
>
I'm not sure "defeats" is the best way to phrase this. Scully's
scientific methods have proven invaluable to Mulder in solving cases.
Pitting science against the paranormal is like comparing apples and
oranges. Science is a method wheras paranormal science is a field of
study.
Alexa
Alexa James
>I happen to love the episode "Der Hand..." but I wince every time I see
>Mulder casually scanning the check-out record of the book on witchcraft
>in the high school library. Librarians have gone to jail to prevent that
>sort of thing happening. It usually requires a court order and several
>weeks of wrangling to get the check-out records of a single book, even
>when the magic words 'national security' are waved in front of the
>offending librarian. Mulder apparently simply walked in and asked.
><sigh>
>
Okay, a VERY minor nitpick on my part, but I have to point out that
when I was in school, we checked out books from our library using the
card in the back of the book system. When you wanted to check out the
book, you signed your name on the next blank and handed it to the
librarian, who filed it. The list of everyone who had checked out the
book before you did was available simply by pulling the book off the
shelf and checking the card.
Not quite as difficult as Ken Starr finding out which books Monica
bought at Barnes and Noble.....(shame on him)
Alexa
swikstr
A pity...
-swikstr (sorry if this hits twice, the first one seems to have gone into
hibernation...)
Mary Aileen Buss
>
> On 30 Jul 1998 01:14:44 -0400, mcki...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >I happen to love the episode "Der Hand..." but I wince every time I see
> >Mulder casually scanning the check-out record of the book on witchcraft
> >in the high school library. Librarians have gone to jail to prevent that
> >sort of thing happening. It usually requires a court order and several
> >weeks of wrangling to get the check-out records of a single book, even
> >when the magic words 'national security' are waved in front of the
> >offending librarian. Mulder apparently simply walked in and asked.
> ><sigh>
> >
>
> Okay, a VERY minor nitpick on my part, but I have to point out that
> when I was in school, we checked out books from our library using the
> card in the back of the book system. When you wanted to check out the
> book, you signed your name on the next blank and handed it to the
> librarian, who filed it. The list of everyone who had checked out the
> book before you did was available simply by pulling the book off the
> shelf and checking the card.
>
asking.) The privacy laws protecting library records are relatively
recent. Nowadays, in many states, such a practice would be frankly
illegal. Apart from the legal issues, as mckibben pointed out most
librarians are fanatical protectors of their patrons' privacy. As far as
I know, it was the librarians who pushed for laws guarding the privacy
of library records, so that they *couldn't* be made to reveal such
information without a subpeona citing compelling reason. (That scene
always makes me cringe, too.)
> Not quite as difficult as Ken Starr finding out which books Monica
> bought at Barnes and Noble.....(shame on him)
I think Starr lost that one.
--Mary Aileen
UNSUB
<snip>
> <Note to writers....if
> you decide to do something geologically oriented again, *please* call me. I
> would be more than happy to consult for a minor fee ;-)>
> ^^^^^^^^^
Like a walk-on with the two principals? ;-D
> Heidi
> ::::::::with head in hands, rocking slowly::::::::::
> "It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter."
> <Mulder: He's not just lean.......he's cuisine.>
--
We're just wild about Harry! And the X-Files!
Come visit us at the Ford Focused Philes Website:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4858
mcki...@my-dejanews.com
Yep, that was us! <G>
Mulder had only a partial title on a scrap of paper torn from the book.
Since the book was checked out, the card was in the librarian's custody
in her/his file. Unless Mulder swung over the desk, overpowered the
librarian with a right cross and rifled her check-out file, he had to
ask if he wanted to see the record. Now, I will admit, seeing Mulder
suddenly appear at my desk wanting a favor might severely short-circuit
my higher thought processes, but I would at least hope I would demand
a very high price for my cooperation. <VBG>
I may cringe in my professional persona, but the show would get pretty
boring very fast if we had to sit through endless searches for subpoenas
and 'reasonable' cause and so on for the sake of accuracy. I really
doubt if it even occurred to the writers that there would be any sort
of problem in having Mulder simply walk in and ask for the check-out
record. I doubt if 98% of the audience even noticed the goof... or
cared. I suspect the same thing goes for most of the nits various
people have found regarding their own fields.
> > Not quite as difficult as Ken Starr finding out which books Monica
> > bought at Barnes and Noble.....(shame on him)
>
> I think Starr lost that one.
I think it was a draw when all the dust settled.
Two basic rules of life can be drawn from the examples above.
#1 Never, ever mutilate your library book or allow it to be mutilated
by pursuing demons.
#2 Always pay cash for any books you buy which you might not want your
local newspaper and/or gossip mongerer to know about.
--
Joyce - the incurable romantic
MDL * SABAR * LGEB
aka...@my-dejanews.com
>> (Konrad Douglas Frye) writes:
>
> >>It cannot be *that* difficult to write even one episode in which
> >>Scully is right, Mulder is wrong, and yet we marvel at the result.
Actually, that was me, despite the minor, Dejanews/idiot-imposed name change.
> Science in general, and many disciplines
> specifically, are not easy to write realistically. The potential for a major
> screw up is that much greater for a bunch of non-scientist writers. There is
> much to fear there......not to mention a *ton* of research that would be
> required.
I think the research burden would weigh a lot less than a "ton." An episode
is not a published journal article. It's just an episode -- a few lines of
dialog here, a premise or two there.
Remember, "hard" science fiction writers have been doing this kind of
background research since forever. So have mystery writers: many go to
great lengths to ascertain that a particular toxin behaves in a certain way.
1013 already employs scientific advisors. (One was profiled recently in the
Boston Globe; it was she who suggested the term "Erlenmeyer flask.") All
it needs to do is let the advisors do their jobs.
To be sure, as a scientist, your standards are higher than mine. When I
say I want science to "win" once in a while on the X-Files, I don't mean
I want script approval from the MIT faculty. I just occasionally want a plot
that sounds plausible.
Let's step back a minute.
I think it's misleading to say the problem is that "science" is always
defeated. People think the word "science" means "conventional wisdom" -- a
body of facts and theories about the physical world widely accepted by a
bunch of tight-assed so-called experts. Since the X-Files is about the
paranormal, according to this mistaken belief, the show must always prove
science wrong. I'm afraid the show's writers subscribe to this hooey.
Science isn't "conventional wisdom." Science is the scientific method, and
it's the scientific method that always loses. In the series, Scully
represents Reason, and Mulder, Intuition. Reason is always wrong, and
intuition is always right.
This leads to an ultimately childish form of story telling, where nothing has
logical consequence, and events simply just happen.
That kind of storytelling isn't dramatic, it's just dumb.
GeoRed
<jane-...@geocities.spam.com> writes:
>GeoRed wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> <Note to writers....if
>> you decide to do something geologically oriented again, *please* call me.
>I
>> would be more than happy to consult for a minor fee ;-)>
>> ^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>
>Like a walk-on with the two principals? ;-D
>
>
>
Hey....whatever they need from me......;-)
Jane of Boredom
>
> Alexa James wrote:
> >
> > On 30 Jul 1998 01:14:44 -0400, mcki...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > >I happen to love the episode "Der Hand..." but I wince every time I see
> > >Mulder casually scanning the check-out record of the book on witchcraft
> > >in the high school library. Librarians have gone to jail to prevent that
> > >sort of thing happening. It usually requires a court order and several
> > >weeks of wrangling to get the check-out records of a single book, even
> > >when the magic words 'national security' are waved in front of the
> > >offending librarian. Mulder apparently simply walked in and asked.
> > ><sigh>
> > >
> >
> > Okay, a VERY minor nitpick on my part, but I have to point out that
> > when I was in school, we checked out books from our library using the
> > card in the back of the book system.
> The privacy laws protecting library records are relatively
> recent. Nowadays, in many states, such a practice would be frankly
> illegal.
>
It is my understanding that the majority of
database check-out systems these days are designed
precisely to *erase* the record of check-out as
soon as the book is returned. Thus you may be able
to compile statistics on frequency of check-out,
but you would never be able to say *who* had
checked that book out in the past (unless he still
had it, at which point felony nosiness and
subpoenae come in).
Just another reason why the movie *Seven* made no
sense.
> > Not quite as difficult as Ken Starr finding out which books Monica
> > bought at Barnes and Noble.....(shame on him)
>
> I think Starr lost that one.
>
>
It got dropped, I think, largely due to certain
prosecutors looking like harridans and horses's
asses. You will notice, however, that it was the
librarians fighting the good fight all over again!
They protested in front of several Dupont Circle
bookstores and turned the tide of public
sentiment.
Lunaea Hougland
Yes, and it just drives me WILD when they don't let her be as brilliant as
Mulder. I saw a rerun a couple of days ago, the one with the glowing green bugs
in the forest, and they actually have Scully asking if the rings in the center
of the cut tree are the oldest! No, Scully, the tree starts very big and grows
in toward a hollow center. Can you imagine CC & Co. giving Mulder a line like
this?? Of course not.
Alexa James
wrote:
My favorite dumb Scully moment is in Ice. When they first walk into
the research station, Scully looks around and says, "Where do we
start?"
Geesh! She doesn't know how to document a crime scene? She's got the
camera IN HER HAND!!!!
Alexa
Konrad Douglas Frye
(Alexa James) writes:
>My favorite dumb Scully moment is in Ice. When they first walk into
>the research station, Scully looks around and says, "Where do we
>start?"
>Geesh! She doesn't know how to document a crime scene? She's got the
>camera IN HER HAND!!!!
The worst stupid!Scully moment has to be in 'F. Emasculata'. It's not like
that crappy little mask she was wearing around the cadavers was going to do
do anything.
Scully is a doctor 1013, it would be great if someone could remember that ;)
Alexa James
>The worst stupid!Scully moment has to be in 'F. Emasculata'. It's not like
>that crappy little mask she was wearing around the cadavers was going to do
>do anything.
>
>Scully is a doctor 1013, it would be great if someone could remember that ;)
>
>-----
>Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
How about in Humbug where Mulder (the psychologist) is explaining to
Scully (the MD) what the Alligator Man suffers from. Uh huh.
And for that matter, I wish they'd remember Mulder is a psychologist.
Remember in Elegy when Scully explains obsessive/compulsive order in
great detail to Mulder? Hmmmm...I learned about that in Abnormal
Psychology in college. Surely they didn't skip it at Oxford?
Alexa
Movilvr
>Remember in Elegy when Scully explains obsessive/compulsive order in
>great detail to Mulder? Hmmmm...I learned about that in Abnormal
>Psychology in college. Surely they didn't skip it at Oxford?
Maybe it was just payback for Roland when Psychologist!Mulder glanced at the
computer screen and informed Physicist!Scully that they were looking at a model
(? Sorry I don't quite know what to call it. I'm just History!Tammy) of the
equation which had been written on the board. Shouldn't Scully have been the
one to identify it?
Tammy
Alexa James
I remember that one. It was a fluid dynamics equation and Mulder knew
it on sight. I was an engineering student and I'm not sure I could
have ID'd that equation on sight. I doubt Scully could either.
Fluid dynamics isn't standard fare in med school, I don't think. And
I've sure it's not on the cirriculum for a psych degree.
My other favorite dumb Scully moment, by the way? In GITM, when she
DRAWS on the monitor with a red pen to illustrate her point!
Alexa
>
Pamela T. Pon
>Matt Hale <hale...@earthlink.net> writes:
>>Just as Mulder regains his faith in a more tangible form (the ship),
>>Scully regains her love of the job in a more tangible form. So, see,
>>the entire 5th season *was* a preview for the movie; it just had nothing
>>to do with the mytharc. :-)
>
>That was very nicely put.
Agreed. Wonderful post, Matt!
>I still get angry at Scully when I think of the last half of the season.
>I *understand* why Scully is acting the way she was....I don't have to
>like it though. ;-) When you think about it, it is never easy to like
>someone who is drifting and disillusioned.....they would have a tendency
>to bring you down and their attitude would be annoying. Especially to
>someone like myself, a mainly upbeat and positive person.
Ahhh. That makes sense! As a mainly downbeat & depressed person ;-D,
I'm finally beginning to understand why some people got angry at Scully
for her behaviour during a time when she was obviously (to me) grieving;
emotionally lost; without purpose in her life; & perhaps even clinically
depressed. At the time, I was wondering how people could be angry with
her for feeling bad when she was clearly at one of the darkest points of
her life. It seemed like kicking her when she was down -- like blaming
the *victim* of a crime for being sad & angry & depressed afterwards,
rather than blaming those who had victimized her (whether that be the
Consortium or the writers). It made me wonder how, exactly, people
*expected* Scully to react to Emily's death. Ie., did they expect her
to be *cheerful*??! To rediscover her zest for life (as she had been
doing earlier in the season in eps like "Detour" & "PMP," before "Emily"
brought her post-"Redux II" emotional recovery to a screeching halt)???
This seemed like a rather unreasonable expectation for someone who had
been dealt such a crippling blow -- and at such a vulnerable time in her
life, when she had oh-so-tentatively begun to blossom again & attempt to
reconnect with Mulder ("Detour") & her family ("Christmas Carol").
As you point out, however, it is a perfectly natural human
reaction to feel anger towards people who are drifting, disillusioned,
depressed, and grieving -- just as it is to feel anger towards people who
are ill (as in "Elegy"). It's very hard to like someone at such a low
point in their lives. It's much easier to avoid them, like people tend
to avoid the recently widowed -- despite the fact that this is the time
when they need others the most. I just wish that CC had been more
explicit in portraying the connection between Scully's grief & her
resulting disaffection ... perhaps by showing her praying in church for
a few brief seconds; or by giving us a short Karen Kossoff scene or two,
to show that she was still struggling with her well-repressed feelings,
& had a *reason* for acting this way. ("All Souls," IMHO, was too little,
too late, and too damned weird.) Heck, instead of having Scully driving
around Maine for a weekend, how about Scully taking a week off to attend
therapy (interspersed with MulderCalls in which he either knows where
she is & tries to cheer her up with adorably awkward attempts at casual
conversation, or in which he doesn't know where she is & she pretends that
she's just on a simple vacation)? To make it an X-File, there could have
been a B story involving one of the other patients undergoing therapy.
Of course, all this would have required some REAL writing ... >;-)
* please do not email * please POST replies * thank you kindly * semper FI *
GravesPA2
around Maine for a weekend, how about Scully taking a week off to attend
therapy (interspersed with MulderCalls in which he either knows where
she is & tries to cheer her up with adorably awkward attempts at casual
conversation, or in which he doesn't know where she is & she pretends that
she's just on a simple vacation)? To make it an X-File, there could have
been a B story involving one of the other patients undergoing therapy.
Of course, all this would have required some REAL writing ... >;-)
>>
Except I think that Scully only goes to therapy when she senses a direct,
specific threat to a specific case she's one (hence the times we saw her
talking to Kosseff---when she feared her reaction to the death fetish case was
interfering with her ability to work and when she feared that her cancer might
be causing her to see things that weren't there, thus interfering with her
ability to work).
So I think that, unless she believed it was directly affecting her judgment on
a particular case, she avoids therapists and other "listeners" like a plague,
even though we know she benefits greatly from having that sounding board. She
sees it as a sign of weakness, and we know how she feels about those.
Paula Graves
Konrad Douglas Frye
<stuff cut>
>I just wish that CC had been more explicit in portraying the connection
>between Scully's grief & her resulting disaffection ... perhaps by
>showing her praying in church for a few brief seconds; or by giving us a
>short Karen Kossoff scene or two, to show that she was still struggling
>with her well-repressed feelings, & had a *reason* for acting this way.
>("All Souls," IMHO, was too little, too late, and too damned weird.)
This has always been a failing of the writers and stems from the
weaknesses in the creative formula they've always felt compelled to
cling to. How many times have they dropped character bombshells on the
audience and then moved on like nothing has happened?
-Months elapse between 'Paper Clip' and 'DPO', the murder of Scully's
sister and Mulder's father are conveniently ignored.
-The physical and emotional ramifications of Scully's fight with cancer are
hardly dealt with at all after 'Memento Mori'.
-In 'Small Potatoes' we rejoin Mulder and Scully a month after the
Van Blundht incident. (Never mind the fact that the clock is ticking for
Dr. Scully)
-Samantha and her "father" are completely forgotten after 'Redux II'.
The list is rather long. It should be no surprise that we're hearing
rumors that the season six premiere will take place several months of
X-Files time after the events of FtF.
Alexa James
Heck, instead of having Scully driving
>around Maine for a weekend, how about Scully taking a week off to attend
>therapy (interspersed with MulderCalls in which he either knows where
>she is & tries to cheer her up with adorably awkward attempts at casual
>conversation, or in which he doesn't know where she is & she pretends that
>she's just on a simple vacation)? To make it an X-File, there could have
>been a B story involving one of the other patients undergoing therapy.
>Of course, all this would have required some REAL writing ... >;-)
>
Just my opinion, of course, but the day they write a whole ep about
Scully in therapy is the day I quit watching the show. One of my
favorite things about the XF isn't that it doesn't get mired down in
touchy feely sentimentality. Might as well watch Ally McBeal if you
want yuppie angst!
:-)
Alexa
Alexa James
>weaknesses in the creative formula they've always felt compelled to
>cling to. How many times have they dropped character bombshells on the
>audience and then moved on like nothing has happened?
>
>Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
I alluded to this above, but are you sure you'd really want to see
that sort of thing? XF would degenerate into an angst fest with
nothing going on but the characters "dealing with" past events. In
reality, yes, these issues would have to be dealt with, but some
allowances have to be made here for the premise of the show, which
would virtually disappear if the writers took the time to resolve all
the emotional issues that come up.
Much of the "life" of these characters takes place off screen. Just
like I figure we didn't see the conversation where Mulder tells Scully
he was married, I assume these issues are dealt with in fictional "off
time" that we (thankfully) never see.
The XF is already a soap opera - there's no getting around that. But
I hope the writers continue to keep it from deteriorating into another
Melrose Place.
Alexa
NkPiii
>around Maine for a weekend, how about Scully taking a week off to attend
>therapy
>Except I think that Scully only goes to therapy when she senses a direct,
>specific threat to a specific case
Somehow, I think the book on the nightstand (which I put myself though in a
couple of excruciating hours) was suppose to give us a clue as to her state of
mind. To Paula's point: physician, heal thyself....
NJP
NkPiii
>This has always been a failing of the writers and stems from the
>weaknesses in the creative formula they've always felt compelled to
>cling to.
I don't know if this is so much a *failing* as a kind of incontrovertible
aspect of the type of show we are given. While TXF may be a "soap opera" (or,
more correctly, a "toyota opera") it is not written as a serial or continuing
story--except within the bounds of the mytharc which comprises less than 35% of
all episodes. We get bit and tibits of Mulder and Scully's lives in all eps,
but the MOTWs are written almost as independent eps--more in the manner of
dramatic shows before the arc concept was introduced. (Did Mannix, after all,
ever carry a thought from one week to the next?)
There are other nettlesome aspects to this. Do the Continuum and The Colonizing
EBEs take a couple of weeks off from their world conquering efforts while our
heros go off and chase Killer Trees and Yellow Rain?
As for Mulder's father--they were barely speaking before the latter's death and
Mulder has believed (until FTF) that his father was part of the evil conspiracy
that he is trying to bring down. Having him suddenly obsess over his father or
his father's killer--beyond a couple of innalabunzas to Krycek--would not
strike me as very real.
Scully has always shown a tendency to work within the system and a reserve in
her outward emotions. Yet she gets off a tirade at the beginning of Talitha
(some 14 weeks after Melissa's death) and by the end of the ep has gotten a
measure of revenge. Her sister comes in for a few mentions over the next few
years and figures prominently in two eps this past season.
As for the Cancer--we reencounter it in Elegy, in the Gethsemane/R/RII where
she goes into remission. She mentions it again in the "raining sleeping bag"
scene in Detour where she gives her view on it. It gets mentioned again briefly
in PX/R&B.
Scully was menaced in "Unruhe" not injured. As a law enforcement officer, she
should feel (as Skinner says in "One Breath") that these things occur in the
line of duty. I suspect that anyone in such circumstances would be able to move
on after a shorter time than one of us.
As CSM was supposed to be dead at the end of RII and his "daughter" possibly
another in series of misdirects, I don't know that it is so unusual that she
wasn't treated further--even as I suspect that the infamous eliminated
explanation scenes of FTF were probably intended to answer our questions and
meant that the matter of Samantha was not treated in Season 5.
NJP
Chris
>We get bit and tibits of Mulder and Scully's lives in all eps,
>but the MOTWs are written almost as independent eps--more in the manner of
>dramatic shows before the arc concept was introduced. (Did Mannix, after
all,
>ever carry a thought from one week to the next?)
Dunno if this has been suggested before, but the model for the X-Files would
seem to be The Fugitive, which mingled anthology episodes (where David
Jannsen was essentially an onlooker in the lives of the guest stars) with
mythology episodes (where Barry Morse came within a commercial's breadth of
nabbing his quarry). Some episodes mingled the two aspects, with the plot
centering mainly on the Guest Star Problem of the Week, but Lt. Girard
arriving just after the nick of time. Periodically, Dr. Kimble got a clue as
to the identity and whereabouts of the One-Armed Man. All was resolved in
the final episode, of course, so there was a sense of continuity, at least
more than one ever got from Mannix.
Chris
http://members.aol.com/chris002
Konrad Douglas Frye
(Alexa James) writes:
>>This has always been a failing of the writers and stems from the
>>weaknesses in the creative formula they've always felt compelled to
>>cling to. How many times have they dropped character bombshells on the
>>audience and then moved on like nothing has happened?
>I alluded to this above, but are you sure you'd really want to see
>that sort of thing? XF would degenerate into an angst fest with
>nothing going on but the characters "dealing with" past events. In
>reality, yes, these issues would have to be dealt with, but some
>allowances have to be made here for the premise of the show, which
>would virtually disappear if the writers took the time to resolve all
>the emotional issues that come up.
Then is it really fair to drop these character bombshells in the first
place? The cancer arc turned into a borderline disaster because 1013
refused to deal with it at all after 'Memento Mori' aired (newspapers
actually ran stories wondering if the cancer had been cured!). As much as
we dump on John Shiban he was the only writer that even attempted to
integrate some of the emotional fallout of the cancer arc into a monster
of the week style story. 1013 *can* inject the emotional fallout that
mytharc episodes offer into stand alone stories if they choose to do so
but for the most part they elect to move on like nothing has happened.
>Much of the "life" of these characters takes place off screen. Just
>like I figure we didn't see the conversation where Mulder tells Scully
>he was married, I assume these issues are dealt with in fictional "off
>time" that we (thankfully) never see.
Then I'd suggest to the writers that they make it a *little* clearer that
these conversations do in fact go on "behind the scenes". I don't think
anyone is asking for an hour long sob fest but I do think people get sick
and tired wondering just what the hell Mulder and Scully do in the months
that elapse after a character bombshell is dropped. A balance has to
exist somewhere.
swikstr
<snip>
> Then I'd suggest to the writers that they make it a *little* clearer that
> these conversations do in fact go on "behind the scenes". I don't think
> anyone is asking for an hour long sob fest but I do think people get sick
> and tired wondering just what the hell Mulder and Scully do in the months
> that elapse after a character bombshell is dropped. A balance has to
> exist somewhere.
Well, I guess I'll take this opportunity to dive into a rant about a perfect
such XF example that *still* bothers me to this day.
Small Potatoes.
For the life of me, I can't understand why Gilligan and the powers at 1013
felt the conclusion to this episode was even remotely satisfying. I don't
believe M&S ever even attempted to resolve the issues that had to have reared
their ugly heads over the incident of Van Blundht (the 'h' is silent) in that
apartment.
I mean come on. Mulder *had* to have something on his mind after he burst in
the door and saw his partner in 'his' arms (and I'll go to my grave believing
it wasn't jealousy that motivated his aggression at breaking in, but rather
fear for Scully's safety).
I know the logical answer is that Mulder never raised the issue out of
deference to Scully's feelings and/or possible humiliation/embarrassment over
the episode. Scully for the same reasons.
But if that's the case, then why inject that closing comment at the end of
the story? The "I'm no Eddie Van Blundht, either." I know my personal
reaction was to say, "Thank god for that, Mulder." Perhaps Scully could have
uttered something along a similar vein, but she never looks at Mulder as he
says that, or even changes expression for god's sake. And the thing is, that
line of dialogue offered the perfect opportunity to close the door on the
whole thing if Scully would have just reacted somehow.
SP is an episode that I probably love and hate in equal parts more than any
other XF ep. Gilligan's story was fantastic and DD's acting stellar in this,
but to leave the audience suspended like that at the end, was, imho, horribly
frustrating and unnecessary.
Thoughts?
-swikstr (help me, puh-lease!)
Matt Hale
>
> In <35c7338f...@news.nashville.com> alexa...@nashville.com
> (Alexa James) writes:
>
> >> How many times have they dropped character bombshells on the
> >>audience and then moved on like nothing has happened?
>
> >I alluded to this above, but are you sure you'd really want to see
> >that sort of thing? XF would degenerate into an angst fest with
> >nothing going on but the characters "dealing with" past events. In
> >reality, yes, these issues would have to be dealt with, but some
> >allowances have to be made here for the premise of the show, which
> >would virtually disappear if the writers took the time to resolve all
> >the emotional issues that come up.
>
> Then is it really fair to drop these character bombshells in the first
> place? The cancer arc turned into a borderline disaster because 1013
> refused to deal with it at all after 'Memento Mori' aired (newspapers
> actually ran stories wondering if the cancer had been cured!). As much as
> we dump on John Shiban he was the only writer that even attempted to
> integrate some of the emotional fallout of the cancer arc into a monster
> of the week style story. 1013 *can* inject the emotional fallout that
> mytharc episodes offer into stand alone stories if they choose to do so
> but for the most part they elect to move on like nothing has happened.
>
I agree. This is a problem and I think it would make for an even richer
show (and would absolutely not have to degenerate into soap opera) if
1013 would elect to insert some emotional continuity into the MOTWs.
It's actually not unprecedented. I think they did a marvelous job in
LGM through One Breath. In that series of episodes were some very
strong MOTWs (The Host, Sleepless) that could have stood on their own
but, IMO, were made stronger by inserting a continuing arc. I certainly
don't think the arc weakened the individual stories in any way.
Since then, there have been isolated cases like Red Museum,
Irresistible, Wet Wired, Paper Hearts, Elegy and Detour -- some
incorporating bits of the mytharc and some actually dealing with the
emotional ramifications of whatever recent crises these people have been
through -- but these have been pretty rare.
I also think there are two examples of emotional arcs that were pretty
successful (though subtle): the so-called "rift" of season 3 and the
disillusionment arc of the second half of season 5. I have to say,
though, that I don't think the "rift" was really a rift. There was
certainly a strain in the relationship for quite a bit of season 3 (I
really think of it as Oubliette through Pusher). I think it was an
interesting way to explore the strain that would come from the growing
realization on the part of Mulder and Scully that they were becoming so
completely isolated. They had always been out of the mainstream but
after basically being outlaws in Paper Clip compounded by the
devastating losses of Melissa and Mulder's father there HAD to be an
impact and I actually think there was a remarkably consistent (well,
remarkable for XF) effort by the writers over the course of about ten
episodes to explore this. The second half of season five has been the
topic of quite a bit of discussion recently and (with the exception of
only a couple of eps) was, IMO, handled very well by the writers and I
think GA worked to maintain consistency when it wasn't in the script.
Both of these cases, though, were very vague in execution and left a lot
of room for MOTWs that completely disregarded any character development
at all since season one and that is a problem. I think it would be very
possible (with, really, not a whole lot of extra work) for the writers
to keep the quality stand alone episodes without abandoning the notion
of continuing character development.
I really hate it when people immediately equate any kind of focus on the
character's inner lives with soap operas. I mean, the focus of most
soap operas is anything but real character development. Soap operas are
very much about surface and exploiting the most sensationalistic aspects
of a story. The characters yell and cry and fight and fuck and do it
all BIG. This is not the X-Files. The X-Files is almost an anti soap
opera (like the movie was sort of an anti action movie). It's not that
I don't see the soap operatic elements but they work kind of like the
sci-fi elements. They are there but they do not (I'm not sure how to
say this) characterize the genre of the show. XF is not sci-fi and it's
*certainly* not a soap opera.
Anyway, this is just a really round about way of saying that this
doesn't have to be an either/or issue. The show can be comprised of 70%
stand-alone eps but still maintain an emotional continuity without
becoming a soap opera. Alexa mentioned that it would become another
problem if the characters spent entire angst filled episodes "dealing
with" past events but I think the real problem is that events completely
disappear from memory for months and then they HAVE to be dealt with
when the next mytharc comes along and gives said event an important role
in the story. If the results of these events never went away to begin
with then it wouldn't be something that would have to be "dealt with"
all at once. Instead, these huge issues could be slowly explored over
the course of many MOTWs as subtext which would not only relieve the
burden on the mytharc eps (which have to both tell a story and address
months of emotional tension) but would also allow a much more detailed
and rich exploration of these issues.
I think XF is at its best when it has a focus. I actually don't think
the cancer arc was a disaster. It was hit and miss but I really do
think that when it hit, it added a lot to the show. Even when it wasn't
directly mentioned (Demons comes immediately to mind), there was a
definite presence there. When I think of the show, I don't think of a
bunch of individual stories, I think about the thing as a whole. XF
just isn't an anthology show and I think a real sense of context only
makes a strong MOTW better. And, really, I'd usually rather watch a
weak MOTW with a strong sense of continuity than a strong MOTW that
seems to exist in some nether world. For example, I'll take Detour over
TFWID (and I absolutely LOVE TFWID as an individual little movie) any
day of the week.
This has become much longer than I thought it would be. It's really late
and I hope it isn't gibberish.
Matt Hale
hale...@earthlink.net
Alexa James
>
>But if that's the case, then why inject that closing comment at the end of
>the story? The "I'm no Eddie Van Blundht, either." I know my personal
>reaction was to say, "Thank god for that, Mulder." Perhaps Scully could have
>uttered something along a similar vein, but she never looks at Mulder as he
>says that, or even changes expression for god's sake. And the thing is, that
>line of dialogue offered the perfect opportunity to close the door on the
>whole thing if Scully would have just reacted somehow.
>
>
>-swikstr (help me, puh-lease!)
I thought the last scene summed the whole thing up perfectly. One of
the things I like best about the XF is their minimalist approach.
They leave so much unsaid <which is why we have such great
discussions, BTW>. You just have to do a little work to find what
you're looking for here.
A little sleuthing in the last scene tells you everything you need to
know without taking up screen time with exposition.
Mulder goes back after a week to see Eddie. Eddie says, "Is Agent
Scully with you?" Mulder's reaction tells you he's extremely bothered
by the memory of Scully's near seduction. He's clearly been thinking
about (or trying not to think about) what he saw in Scully's
apartment. When Eddie suggests he should live a little, Mulder
leaves. Eddie has struck a nerve - Mulder has no personal life,
nothing to offer Scully in the way of a "normal" relationship. What
can he say to that? It's the truth. We can't change who are we, much
as we'd sometimes like to. (Remember Eddie's comment about wishing he
could change the person he'd become? Granted, he was talking about
himself, but it could have been Mulder saying it, which is why it hit
home for Scully (who thought she was listening to Mulder). This is
reflected beautifully in Eddie's remarks to Mulder at the end.)
Scully declines to go in with him to see Eddie. She's obviously
uncomfortable with the situation as well. "I don't think you need to
be told this, Mulder, but you're not a loser." (translation: There's
nothing wrong with you. I like you the way you are.) "Maybe. But
I'm no Eddie VanBlundht, either." (translation: You may like me for
who I am, but I can never make you happy.) Silence from Scully.
(translation: You're probably right, Mulder.)
What more is there to say in this scene? IMO, these last few lines
are stunningly well written and they manage to say everything without
saying out loud.
Alexa
Konrad Douglas Frye
(Alexa James) writes:
>Mulder goes back after a week to see Eddie.
Actually, they let an entire month slide by to avoid dealing with the issues
the episode brought up.
-----
Konrad Frye (umfr...@ccu.umanitoba.ca)
Computer Engineering IV
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with the
bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexa James
>Scully with you?"
Apologies for replying to my own post, but before someone corrects me,
Mulder went back after one month, not one week. Oops!
Alexa
swikstr
> I thought the last scene summed the whole thing up perfectly. One of
> the things I like best about the XF is their minimalist approach.
> They leave so much unsaid <which is why we have such great
> discussions, BTW>. You just have to do a little work to find what
> you're looking for here.
Yeah, but this was minimalist to the point of silliness. Look at Mulder's
attitude and commentary after Scully's Philadelphia debacle in Never Again.
Again, it's subject to many different interpretations, but it's clear that he's
disturbed over her behavior and that it has affected their partnership in some
fundamental way.
Not so in the closing scene of SP. Summed it up, yes. The bad guy is in jail.
He gets his gratuitous shot at Mulder. Scully reaffirms her loyalty to Mulder.
And the heroes walk off into the sunset as Eddie mops the floor in preparation for
his next round of inmate abuse.
Resolved any issues that may have been raised at the sight of Scully in *Mulder's*
arms? Hardly.
> A little sleuthing in the last scene tells you everything you need to
> know without taking up screen time with exposition.
With all due respect, Alexa, I disagree. In fact, I think you're reading a lot
into that scene that simply isn't there. Just for yucks, I watched it a couple of
times to see if there was something I missed. Again, that's my opinion. Part of
me would have liked to have seen it the way you describe, but there's just not
enough there.
> Mulder goes back after a week to see Eddie. Eddie says, "Is Agent
> Scully with you?" Mulder's reaction tells you he's extremely bothered
> by the memory of Scully's near seduction.
Really? How? His immediate response is to demand, "What did you want to see me
about, Eddie?" in a tone that to me seems to indicate he resents the waste of an
hour of his life here.
> He's clearly been thinking
> about (or trying not to think about) what he saw in Scully's
> apartment.
Again, I don't see this. Mulder comes back at every comment that Eddie makes
without hesitation and in a very calm, almost ironic manner -- like he can't
really believe he's there listening to all this.
> When Eddie suggests he should live a little, Mulder
> leaves.
Why wouldn't he? Why would Fox Mulder need or want to take advice from a
convicted felon and rapist??
> Eddie has struck a nerve - Mulder has no personal life,
> nothing to offer Scully in the way of a "normal" relationship. What
> can he say to that? It's the truth. We can't change who are we, much
> as we'd sometimes like to. (Remember Eddie's comment about wishing he
> could change the person he'd become? Granted, he was talking about
> himself, but it could have been Mulder saying it, which is why it hit
> home for Scully (who thought she was listening to Mulder). This is
> reflected beautifully in Eddie's remarks to Mulder at the end.)
I'm not sure that I buy into Mulder's believing he can't offer Scully a normal
relationship because he has no social life. I think the key in this ep wasn't in
Eddie's comments to Scully about wanting to change himself (i.e. Mulder wanting to
change himself) but rather in *Mulder's* comments about "how other people's
reactions to us make us who we are." EVB played the role of Mulder in a large
part based on Scully's behavior. IMHO, she created that version of Faux Mulder
just as much as Eddie.
> Scully declines to go in with him to see Eddie. She's obviously
> uncomfortable with the situation as well. "I don't think you need to
> be told this, Mulder, but you're not a loser." (translation: There's
> nothing wrong with you. I like you the way you are.)
Ok, I'll agree with you on all points there. Faithful, hound dog Scully to the
rescue.
> "Maybe. But
> I'm no Eddie VanBlundht, either." (translation: You may like me for
> who I am, but I can never make you happy.) Silence from Scully.
> (translation: You're probably right, Mulder.)
Whoops! You've lost me again. Certainly, you could interpret those closing
remarks in that manner. I didn't, and honestly, I'm not sure *how* exactly I'm
meant to. Scully doesn't break expression after that line. Not even a flicker.
I suppose the argument could be made that her silence is really the answer in and
of itself, but I'm not so sure. Her silence indicates acceptance of Mulder's
point -- but why wouldn't she? Eddie is a felon, locked up in jail for deceiving
and inveigling at least four innocent women into having sex with him. Of course
Mulder's no EVB. But was her silence also meant to indicate to Mulder that she
liked Faux Mulder better? I don't know -- and that's what I would have liked to
get a clue about.
> What more is there to say in this scene? IMO, these last few lines
> are stunningly well written and they manage to say everything without
> saying out loud.
Well, you're comfortable in your interpretation and that's fine. I guess my point
is that another person (myself in this post, I guess) could easily analyze that
scene in a completely different manner. You see Mulder as wistful. I see
something else. In fact, watch the look Mulder gives Scully just as he walks out
from the interview with EVB. It's almost one of chagrin, as if to rebuke her for
getting them into this coil in the first place. I'm not sure it's out of line to
use that as evidence that Mulder was *pissed* at her for not knowing him well
enough after all this time to tell the difference and resentful of the fact that
she can't accept him for who he is.
Now, we have your interpretation and my interpretation. I just wish we had Mulder
and Scully's (read 1013's) interpretation of how the characters really felt about
her ending up in her partner's arms and how it would affect the relationship.
Which was the original point, I think. Did we lose it in there somewhere? ;)
-swikstr
GeoRed
(Alexa James) writes:
>I think Heidi wrote:
>
> Heck, instead of having Scully driving
>>around Maine for a weekend, how about Scully taking a week off to attend
>>therapy (interspersed with MulderCalls in which he either knows where
>>she is & tries to cheer her up with adorably awkward attempts at casual
>>conversation, or in which he doesn't know where she is & she pretends that
>>she's just on a simple vacation)? To make it an X-File, there could have
>>been a B story involving one of the other patients undergoing therapy.
>>Of course, all this would have required some REAL writing ... >;-)
>>
>
>Just my opinion, of course, but the day they write a whole ep about
>Scully in therapy is the day I quit watching the show. One of my
>favorite things about the XF isn't that it doesn't get mired down in
>touchy feely sentimentality. Might as well watch Ally McBeal if you
>want yuppie angst!
I think you need to learn to quote better. That wasn't me. Do you really
think that *I* would suggest a Scullycentric episode? You know me better than
that, I would think. <g> Just like I know *you* well enough to know that the
slight snarkiness in your response is caused by the gentle writing slam ;-)
GeoRed
(Alexa James) writes:
>Mulder goes back after a week to see Eddie.
A month.
Alexa James
>I think you need to learn to quote better. That wasn't me. Do you really
>think that *I* would suggest a Scullycentric episode? You know me better than
>that, I would think. <g> Just like I know *you* well enough to know that the
>slight snarkiness in your response is caused by the gentle writing slam ;-)
>
>Heidi
My humblest apologies. (well, maybe not my HUMBLEST - I'm saving
those for a special occasion). That's why I put "I think Heidi said"
in my response. My server doesn't download every post and often by
the time I see something new, it's been replied to several times and
it's difficult to sort out who said what by then.
Alexa
"I'm not even going to ask you if you just said what I think you said
because I know that's what you just said." :-)
GravesPA2
lot
into that scene that simply isn't there. Just for yucks, I watched it a couple
of
times to see if there was something I missed. Again, that's my opinion. Part
of
me would have liked to have seen it the way you describe, but there's just not
enough there.>>
Blame the actors, then---because what Alexa described is pretty much spelled
out in the Small Potatoes script.
I saw what Alexa saw.
Paula Graves
swikstr
> <<With all due respect, Alexa, I disagree. In fact, I think you're reading a
> lot
> into that scene that simply isn't there. Just for yucks, I watched it a couple
> of
> times to see if there was something I missed. Again, that's my opinion. Part
> of
> me would have liked to have seen it the way you describe, but there's just not
> enough there.>>
>
> Blame the actors, then---because what Alexa described is pretty much spelled
> out in the Small Potatoes script.
Interesting. I'll take your word for it.
-swikstr (off to watch the ep yet again...)
Julsb
>Blame the actors, then---because what Alexa described is pretty much spelled
>out in the Small Potatoes script.
>
>
...and then the topic never arose again, because each script is stand alone and
continuity has no place in the X-Files universe.
*sigh*
I'll happily accept repressed characters. Amnesiac ones, however, are a whole
'nother ballgame...
julianna
PennPart
<<In any case, as other posts have recently testified, great pleasure can be
obtained by re-viewing old shows with the benefit of hindsight. The joy of
TXF is that the stimulating raw material provided by the shows gives the
intelligent viewer a vast archive to draw on to construct their own
narratives.>>
Excellent post, Pat.
One of the things I love about the X-Files and one of the things that draws me
to the show is its complexity. My kids watch the show on one level...I watch it
on another. And it gives so much pleasure. For example, when I first saw Small
Potatoes, I had no knowledge of the shape-shifting aliens. So when Mulder says
to Scully, "We've seen this kind of thing before." I had no idea what he was
talking about. Later when I viewed Colony/EndGame, I understood the line from
Small Potatoes.
As I have added more and more episodes to my viewing repertoire, I am learning
more, understanding more and enjoying the series more. Maybe that is why season
5 hasn't totally disappointed me. To me - who has only been watching for a year
and a half - the show and the characters are still new and fresh. And though I
have watched over 100 episodes in that short time frame - some wonderful, some
awful and lots in between - I've grown to love this show like no other.
The show's intelligence and its heart impress me. And while I find that the
writers and CC can make me nuts at times, the X-Files still entertain and
challenge me. Until that stops happening, I'll be there on the couch...watching
intensely.
sue
GeoRed
(Julsb) writes:
>...and then the topic never arose again, because each script is stand alone
>and
>continuity has no place in the X-Files universe.
>
>
<snicker> Good point.
Pamela T. Pon
Hey!!! ;-)
I wrote:
>>>Heck, instead of having Scully driving around Maine for a weekend,
>>>how about Scully taking a week off to attend therapy (interspersed
>>>with MulderCalls in which he either knows where she is & tries to
>>>cheer her up with adorably awkward attempts at casual conversation,
>>>or in which he doesn't know where she is & she pretends that she's
>>>just on a simple vacation)? To make it an X-File, there could have
>>>been a B story involving one of the other patients undergoing therapy.
>>>Of course, all this would have required some REAL writing ... >;-)
Alexa wrote:
>>Just my opinion, of course, but the day they write a whole ep about
>>Scully in therapy is the day I quit watching the show. One of my
>>favorite things about the XF isn't that it doesn't get mired down in
>>touchy feely sentimentality. Might as well watch Ally McBeal if you
>>want yuppie angst!
Nonono! No yuppie angst or touchy feely sentimentality. I'm not talking
THIRTYSOMETHING here <shudder>. I'm talking CHINA BEACH or "Confession"
(the 2nd season opener of LAW & ORDER), in which military/medical/law
enforcement personnel have to deal with genuine Post-Traumatic Stress
Disorder or losing partners/colleagues/friends/relatives/patients/victims
-- in or out of the line of duty -- and/or the kind of grief counseling
that a civilian might receive while dealing with the death of a child,
a terminal illness, the murder of a sibling, the early death of a parent,
or being the victim of violent crimes several times over. REAL tragedy,
such as M&S have experienced -- not just yuppie angst. (Eg., when
Scully lost Emily, she lost a patient, the victim of a crime she was
investigating, her biological daughter, & possibly her last chance at
biological motherhood: professional losses as *both* a medical doctor
& an FBI agent, and personal losses as both a mother & a woman.)
Realistically, of course, I don't think she *would* seek help on
her own, any more than Detective Mike Logan would have in "Confession"
after his partner was executed. But it might have been interesting to see
her forced to go to mandatory counseling such as he was: in a few *brief*
but powerful scenes (roughly corresponding to the Four Stages of Grief)
which were neatly interwoven with the main police procedural plotline
(his somewhat overenthusiastic investigation of the crime & the subsequent
charges of police brutality). Or perhaps brief CHINA BEACH-style clips
of talking (or painfully silent) heads interspersed within the main story.
*Not* touchy or feely or sentimental -- instead reluctant, resistant,
grudging, stubborn, hostile, and filled with ruthlessly repressed anger,
grief, fear, and denial.
I don't think it could possibly have been worse than "Chinga,"
at any rate. ;-)
Heidi wrote:
>I think you need to learn to quote better. That wasn't me. Do you
>really think that *I* would suggest a Scullycentric episode? You know me
>better than that, I would think. <g> Just like I know *you* well enough
>to know that the slight snarkiness in your response is caused by the
>gentle writing slam ;-)
Just for the record: it was Stephen King's MOTW I was slamming, not
the allegedly CC-scripted phone exchanges. ;-D Those were priceless!
And in case anyone misunderstands me, I wasn't suggesting an
*additional* Scullycentric episode -- just a genuinely Scullycentric
alternative to the not-really-Scullycentric episode that we *did* get,
due to the movie reshoots. (IMHO, "Chinga" wasn't so much Scullycentric
as Mulderdeprived, since it concentrated far more on the mediocre MOTW
than on Scully herself.) Since we *had* to lose DD for a week anyway,
I would be far more interested in Scully's solo reactions to the
repercussions of the mytharc than in seeing Scully apathetically &
uselessly standing by while a hopelessly cliched horror plot played itself
out before her eyes. For that matter, I would rather have seen an hour
of Scully actively *doing* anything at all -- or of Skinner sitting at
his desk (though the gym would be more fun 8-), Chauffeur!Krycek, or the
Lone Gunmen. Or even a day in the life of Holly, or that sweet security
guard at the metal detector, or Pendrell (who is NOT dead). Or Margaret
Scully encountering her own X-File (since we already know she's prone
to prophetic dreams) & asking for help from Mulder or Scully or both;
or an episode about Ma Mulder (finally!). Or that all-sports episode
where Mulder shoots hoops, Krycek plays golf (quite a feat with one arm),
Skinner rollerblades, and the CSM does some fancy waterskiing. ANYthing
but killer dolls (or treeeees)!
Matt Hale
> As I have added more and more episodes to my viewing repertoire, I am learning
> more, understanding more and enjoying the series more. Maybe that is why season
> 5 hasn't totally disappointed me. To me - who has only been watching for a year
> and a half - the show and the characters are still new and fresh.
Maybe I'm just weird but I don't think that season 5 disappointed every
long time viewer. I have been watching since the first airing of the
pilot and I absolutely loved this past season.
I think it was incredibly brave to spend an entire season of a
television show with a growing audience on the disillusionment of its
protagonists in preparation for a film whose most important element (in
my mind anyway) is the impact of their returning faith and confidence.
It was a season of contrasts. I'm very interested in hearing the
opinions of people who started watching in season five or late season
four because I really wonder what they got out of it. So much of season
5 seemed to depend totally on having an audience that knew these
characters very well and would be concerned about their changing
behavior.
I know someone who moved in with a phile over last summer's reruns and
had never seen the show (other than random eps here and there) but was
now forced to and said recently that she really didn't like these
characters, especially Scully. Well, after fainting and a brief period
of lost consciousness, I took a moment to really think about what she
had actually seen and I realized that she hadn't lived with these two
for five years and her reaction made some sense. She didn't know Mulder
and Scully, she knew Mulder and Scully in their darkest moments.
Needless to say, it is now my mission to expose her to as many episodes
as possible.
Anyway, though I can understand (in a way) why some long time philes
might not like the absence of so much of what they love about the show
(and, as Heidi said, it's not exactly fun to watch a character that you
have a great deal of affection for go through a painful time), I think
that most of what is great about the 5th season would be totally lost on
newer viewers.
I love to see the show change and I love the fact that an entire season
was dedicated to something difficult to handle and I'm optimistic about
the show moving on from here. But I'm the guy that thinks Emily was one
of the most well written episodes in the show's history so what do I
know?
Matt Hale
hale...@earthlink.net