Someone please tell me... (ORISON SPOILERS)
Bjm...@aol.com
After reading others' posts I usually get a much better grip on an ep, see it
from different perspectives, understand it on different levels. Perhaps if I
lay out what bothered me about Orison, you can all slap me around and I'll
feel more enlightened that much faster. <g>
My biggest problem: the ending. Yes, I would have liked a nice shippy
ending, but I can deal with it that it wasn't. What I can't grasp is that
Scully shot Pfaster IN COLD BLOOD. Yes, he would have tried to kill Scully
had Mulder not intervened and/or Scully not gotten to her gun first. Yes, he
would have killed again had he gotten away. Yes, he was evil, although I
doubt that's admissible in court. <g> But when Scully shot Pfaster, he
wasn't armed. Mulder had his gun on him. It seems to me that, as a federal
agent, what Scully did was inexcusable. As looking at her as a human being,
as a victim, it had to be illegal too. I can't imagine how Mulder could word
is report in a way that could get her off the hook. About the only way I see
her not getting in trouble (arrested for murder? I'm not even sure what
could be done to her) is by using some kind of "traumatic self-defense"
excuse, if there is such a thing.
Speaking of Pfaster's death -- how was it that Scully could kill him and
Orison couldn't? Are we supposed to infer that Scully was *meant* to kill
him, and that Orison was just the tool to put that in motion?
What was causing the "slo mo" effect? Was it Orison, or was it Pfaster? Or
something else? If it was Orison (and it certainly seemed to be his doing in
the diner), then how did it happen at the end of the ep, after Orison was
dead?
And what about the mass hypnosis thing? Was it really necessary? The
breakout and Orison's departure from the hospital didn't need to be done with
any special tricks, at least in terms of the story development. The breakout
could have been facilitated by a different diversion, and Orison could have
been less seriously injured when hit by the car so that admittance to the
hospital wasn't necessary. (I don't think Mulder had enough evidence to
arrest Orison, so he could have just walked away from the hospital.) The
escape from the diner didn't need to be an escape at all. Pfaster could have
just overpowered Orison in order to take his car.
I also couldn't grasp why Mulder and Scully just went home after finding
Orison's body. They knew that Pfaster was still out there, and had already
killed two people. They knew more about Pfaster and his behavior than anyone
else, and they just WENT HOME? I could almost believe that Mulder was happy
to go home to get Scully off the case, but Scully felt compelled to help find
Pfaster, did she not? And she just... gave up when Orison was killed? I
don't get it.
Also, M&S had a color photo of the girl Pfaster killed; didn't either of them
notice that she had red hair, and that perhaps Pfaster was targeting
redheads, and that therefore Scully could be in danger? Didn't the Marshall
make the connection -- not necessarily to Scully, but with the dead girl --
when the call girl talked to him about her red wig?
How did Mulder know to go to Scully's apartment? My guess was that when
Scully made her phone call as she was running away from Pfaster, she called
Mulder, and his answering machine picked up her screaming and yelling after
Pfaster grabbed her. (I guess Scully has deaf neighbors...) Mulder either
heard it as the message came in, I suppose, or he got up out of bed at some
point and heard both the Marshall's message and her message. We didn't get
any explanation for why he never heard the Marshall's message anyway. Surely
he would have checked his machine when he got home? And if he heard she was
in trouble, why didn't he call her local police? They would have gotten
there much faster than he got there from Alexandria. The only other
explanation that I can think of is that, when he couldn't reach her by phone,
he just decided to drive over.
Did anyone else think that this ep was a little shorter than usual? When I
tape an ep and cut out the commercials, I usually wind up with about 51
minutes worth of X-Files. This time I started taping a minute or so early,
but still came up with less than 50 minutes on tape. I can't believe that
there wasn't enough to fill another couple minutes here. For instance, the
spoilers mentioned Mulder feeding his fish when he got home, and also lying
in bed mouthing something like "Scully, where are you?". Perhaps I missed
it, but I saw neither of those things tonight.
I was really looking forward to Orison, and when it was all over I felt very
let down. The good/evil concept could have been done much better, I thought
(but just so I'm not a total whiner, I will say that I thought the "666" on
the clock was a nice touch).
What is everyone else's take on the issues above, and on Orison in general?
Bonnie
Konrad Douglas Frye
>... why I shouldn't be disappointed with this ep?
I'm drawing a blank. Sequels are incredibly difficult to write and I'm not
surprised that 'Orison' couldn't live up to 'Irresistible'. When this
episode had the opportunity to really break some new ground it didn't
seize the opportunity. If you're a character junky 'Irresistible' has much
more to offer and if plot is your thing 'Orison' had too many elements
that were essentially being rehashed.
>My biggest problem: the ending. Yes, I would have liked a nice shippy
>ending, but I can deal with it that it wasn't. What I can't grasp is that
>Scully shot Pfaster IN COLD BLOOD.
This was the episode's one great scene and it offered us an interesting
moral dilemma. Unfortunately, 1013 shortchanged us by offering us next to
no setup and completely avoiding the immediate aftermath. Anyone that's
watched this show for more than a few episodes knows that Donnie Phaster
will never be discussed again and we're ultimately left with only shock
value questions. I think that's a poor man's type of storytelling and I'm
disappointed 1013 took the easy way out.
Clearly, M&S would have needed to get their stories straight and I'd love
to have seen Scully and Mulder try to lie to the Police. If there's any
kind of forensic inquiry and the local cops aren't interested in covering
up the findings Scully could find herself in a very awkward situation
(Mulder too for that matter). Now that I've had a chance to think about
this I think it's a *major* failure in terms of plotting *and*
characterization. Sorry Chip but your great moral dilemma and
characterization statement is undermined but the stupidity of your
plotting.
>Speaking of Pfaster's death -- how was it that Scully could kill him and
>Orison couldn't? Are we supposed to infer that Scully was *meant* to kill
>him, and that Orison was just the tool to put that in motion?
This was just plain dumb. So what if Orison saw (or thought he saw) Donnie
morph into a demon. Why the hell wouldn't he just have shot him anyways?
>What was causing the "slo mo" effect? Was it Orison, or was it Pfaster? Or
>something else? If it was Orison (and it certainly seemed to be his doing in
>the diner), then how did it happen at the end of the ep, after Orison was
>dead?
This was another thing that bothered me about the episode. I liked the way
the final scene was shot but it really didn't make any sort of sense. At
the beginning of the episode Donnie seemed surprised when time "slowed
donw" so I don't think he was behind the phenomenon.
>And what about the mass hypnosis thing? Was it really necessary? The
>breakout and Orison's departure from the hospital didn't need to be done with
>any special tricks, at least in terms of the story development. The breakout
>could have been facilitated by a different diversion, and Orison could have
>been less seriously injured when hit by the car so that admittance to the
>hospital wasn't necessary. (I don't think Mulder had enough evidence to
>arrest Orison, so he could have just walked away from the hospital.) The
>escape from the diner didn't need to be an escape at all. Pfaster could have
>just overpowered Orison in order to take his car.
And how the hell did Donnie beat Mulder and Scully back to DC? Taking a
plane would have been incredibly risky as the Marshals would have been
watching the airport like hawks. Major plothole Batman.
>I also couldn't grasp why Mulder and Scully just went home after finding
>Orison's body. They knew that Pfaster was still out there, and had already
>killed two people. They knew more about Pfaster and his behavior than anyone
>else, and they just WENT HOME? I could almost believe that Mulder was happy
>to go home to get Scully off the case, but Scully felt compelled to help find
>Pfaster, did she not? And she just... gave up when Orison was killed? I
>don't get it.
Technically escaped prisoners are the responsibility of the US Marshals.
The real plothole is how Donnie knew that Mulder and Scully were going to
head home. I suppose the devil whispered it in his ear. Once again, the
plot begins to unravel if you give it more than a passing glance.
>Also, M&S had a color photo of the girl Pfaster killed; didn't either of them
>notice that she had red hair, and that perhaps Pfaster was targeting
>redheads, and that therefore Scully could be in danger? Didn't the Marshall
>make the connection -- not necessarily to Scully, but with the dead girl --
>when the call girl talked to him about her red wig?
Just a case of characters acting stupid in order to advance the plot.
>How did Mulder know to go to Scully's apartment? My guess was that when
>Scully made her phone call as she was running away from Pfaster, she called
>Mulder, and his answering machine picked up her screaming and yelling after
>Pfaster grabbed her. (I guess Scully has deaf neighbors...) Mulder either
>heard it as the message came in, I suppose, or he got up out of bed at some
>point and heard both the Marshall's message and her message. We didn't get
>any explanation for why he never heard the Marshall's message anyway. Surely
>he would have checked his machine when he got home? And if he heard she was
>in trouble, why didn't he call her local police? They would have gotten
>there much faster than he got there from Alexandria. The only other
>explanation that I can think of is that, when he couldn't reach her by phone,
>he just decided to drive over.
I'd like to know how the hell Mulder got over there so quickly. You're
right, his first call should have been to the local cops.
The most unforgiveable sin however is Scully's behavior after she knocks
Phaster down. Why the hell would she run to her phone? It's not like Chief
O'Brien was going to beam the cops right to her living room. She should
have continued kicking the crap out of Donnie (she had the upper hand) or
she should have made a break for it. And while we're at it, why didn't she
start screaming for help from her neighbors? Stupid, stupid, stupid.
>I was really looking forward to Orison, and when it was all over I felt very
>let down. The good/evil concept could have been done much better, I thought
>(but just so I'm not a total whiner, I will say that I thought the "666" on
>the clock was a nice touch).
The more I think about it the more the plot holes annoy me. If 1013 had
made an honest stab at that moral dilemma of Scully's they'd have improved
things a great deal. The M&S scene at the end seemed abbreviated. I'd of
liked to have seen the entire sequence leading up to the arrival of the
cops.
>What is everyone else's take on the issues above, and on Orison in general?
I could rant for an hour but I'll stop here. <g>
------
Konrad Frye (k f r y e @ e s c a p e . c a)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with the
bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Heidi
<snip>
>Did anyone else think that this ep was a little shorter than usual? When I
>tape an ep and cut out the commercials, I usually wind up with about 51
>minutes worth of X-Files. This time I started taping a minute or so early,
>but still came up with less than 50 minutes on tape. I can't believe that
>there wasn't enough to fill another couple minutes here. For instance, the
>spoilers mentioned Mulder feeding his fish when he got home, and also lying
>in bed mouthing something like "Scully, where are you?". Perhaps I missed
>it, but I saw neither of those things tonight.
I think 46 minutes is the current, actual length of a one hour drama. It
seemed fine to me.
>I was really looking forward to Orison, and when it was all over I felt very
>let down. The good/evil concept could have been done much better, I thought
>(but just so I'm not a total whiner, I will say that I thought the "666" on
>the clock was a nice touch).
I noticed above that you read spoilers. My advice is to stop reading them. I
have found my enjoyment of the episode is much greater when I don't. You
aren't looking for things that end up being cut. People have a tendence to get
all worked up over a spoiler they read and then they are disappointed or pissed
off when it doesn't come to pass. Such is the nature of television. I wasn't
let down, because I had no expectations other than some lovely new Mulder
shots. I wasn't disappointed. He is lovely. <g> Really, that's all I can
tell you. I haven't formed an opinion of the episode yet, but I sure didn't
hate it. I loved that Scully kicked some ass. I am surprised that she shot
him at the end, yet pleased because she is a falible, NOT GOD-LIKE, human
being. I liked that Mulder let his skepticism show, yet heard Scully out and
was compassionate. I am glad we got a statement that seemed to clearly put to
rest the "Mulder is an aethiest" theories. I was a bit perturbed that Scully
felt the need to be offended for anyone who carries a bible.....this from the
woman who think people with weird beliefs are insane on a regular basis. Oh,
wait, it is religion so it isn't insane? Okay. Hey, she's working on it. I
can live with that. <g> She is human. And that's about all I have for right
now.
Heidi
::::::::with head in hands, rocking slowly::::::::::
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter."
<Mulder: He's not just lean.......he's cuisine.>
Dly54
could be done to her) is by using some kind of "traumatic self-defense"
excuse, if there is such a thing.>>
There is *such* a thing and that is exactly what she did. I am glad she did it
and the excuse is she was temporarily emotionally *out of it* felt she was
still in danger.
Debbie
Jenica Nelan
>lay out what bothered me about Orison, you can all slap me around and I'll
>feel more enlightened that much faster. <g>
Well, I feel disappointed too, for many of the same reasons.
>Yes, I would have liked a nice shippy
>ending, but I can deal with it that it wasn't.
Actually, this was one of the things I liked (and thought it was very XF).
Other shows would show Scully falling into Mulder's arms, but she's much more
concerned about her (illegal) actions and how they tie into her beliefs. I
don't know if we were meant to think that Scully had been infused with the
spirit of God or Orison or whatever. My take is that she was traumatized and
just wanted to end it.
>It seems to me that, as a federal
>agent, what Scully did was inexcusable. As looking at her as a human being,
>as a victim, it had to be illegal too
But she is worried about that, though. I think it's something that's going to
concern her for a while (as it should), and since she'll be hard on herself, I
don't want to add to it. Basically, I think that her actions weren't excused,
but they could be justified somewhat.
>I also couldn't grasp why Mulder and Scully just went home after finding
>Orison's body.
I was also really surprised by this and especially surprised that Mulder let go
of the case so quickly. He was most likely worried for Scully, but they didn't
make that clear in this scene.
I was hoping that they wouldn't leave Scully unprotected while Phaster was
loose, but that didn't seem to be a concern. Having said that, however, I
think it's a bit of a reach for him to find Scully so quickly in DC (I assume
M&S flew home, so that would mean that Phaster had to also in order to get to
Scully's apt first. Did he just use Orison's money, ID, etc for a plane
ticket?).
> My guess was that when
>Scully made her phone call as she was running away from Pfaster, she called
>Mulder, and his answering machine picked up her screaming and yelling after
>Pfaster grabbed her.
I think she was calling 911 but (and I'm not clear on this) Phaster hung up
before the 911 operator was able to trace Scully's number. And I think that
when she didn't pick up the phone Mulder became worried and (combined with the
song) drove over.
>I was really looking forward to Orison, and when it was all over I felt very
>let down.
I was too, but then I wasn't in a great mood tonight when seeing it.
One thing that I was looking forward to was an explanation of Phaster as the
devil/monster. This was left hanging after "Irresistible" and I was expecting
a conclusion of sorts here. In a way, the devil thing was both overdone and
underdone- the 666 drove the point home a little too much, but there was never
a satisfactory explanation of who (or what) Phaster was and if these slo-mo
powers were his or Orison's and how that might relate to the whole God/devil
(Orison/Phaster) thing. But I could also be missing something.
This is the only post that has come through my computer, so I don't know if
others have commented on the same stuff....
-Jenica
Jintian Li
> ending, but I can deal with it that it wasn't. What I can't grasp is
> that Scully shot Pfaster IN COLD BLOOD. Yes, he would have tried to
Exactly. I think someone else in this thread posted a reply to this
point that was something to the effect of, she was glad Scully did it
because it showed Scully was human and "not god-like." The thing is,
that's not the issue for me. I have always seen Scully as human, with
plenty of flaws and weaknesses, but as an FBI agent, trained to uphold
the law and use a gun without letting it be a weapon of vengeance or
anger, I thought shooting Pfaster was WAY OFF. Fine for Mulder to see
it his own way and try to write a report reflecting a different light,
but I still don't think "Pfaster is plain evil" is justification enough
for Scully to kill him like that. And not justification enough for the
US court system, either. Maybe I'm just too realistic about this whole
God versus the Devil dynamic in the ep. If you're looking at it that
way, maybe questions of legal versus illegal seem moot.
> Speaking of Pfaster's death -- how was it that Scully could kill him
> and Orison couldn't? Are we supposed to infer that Scully was
Pfft, I have no idea about these things anymore. Maybe it's the fact
that since he has a fetish for women's hair and nails, his physical
weakness is with them. Hence the reason the red-haired wig prostitute
could KO him with candle wax and a shove. Or, to look at it from God
versus the Devil again, you could say it was because Orison really
didn't have God on his side the way Scully might (although that was
ambiguous at the end also).
> And what about the mass hypnosis thing? Was it really necessary?
Well, here I think both you and I might have missed the point. <g> I
didn't get the reason for all the tricks in Orison's bag, either, but
reading some of the other messages which took the conflict between good
and evil at face value, it does create some twisty ideas. One being
that Orison's tricks came out of his belief that he was doing God's
work, when in actuality they just metaphorically let the devil in (and
out of the prison, literally).
> hospital wasn't necessary. (I don't think Mulder had enough evidence
> to arrest Orison, so he could have just walked away from the
Hey, are we watching the same show? This is Mulder we're talking
about. Who needs evidence? <g>
> escape from the diner didn't need to be an escape at all. Pfaster
> could have just overpowered Orison in order to take his car.
Another example of what I said above, of Orison thinking he was doing
God's work but instead helping out the devil.
> I also couldn't grasp why Mulder and Scully just went home after
> finding Orison's body. They knew that Pfaster was still out there,
Oh, dear, I thought this was just about the stupidest way for the plot
to get Scully into Pfaster's clutches I could imagine. And to repeat
someone else's question, how *did* Pfaster get to the DC area before
M&S did, anyway? And for that matter, how could he have escaped at
6:06 in Illinois, while Scully's power went out at 6:06 in Maryland,
and have that be at "exactly the same moment"? Aren't there
differences in standard time here or am I grossly mistaken?
> anyway. Surely he would have checked his machine when he got home?
Hey, I distinctly remember asking this question while beta-reading a
certain fic. ;-) That had to have been one of the more infuriating
parts of the episode. Either that or the fact that he got to her
apartment in about two minutes when he realized (offscreen) that
something was up.
> in trouble, why didn't he call her local police? They would have
> gotten there much faster than he got there from Alexandria. The only
> other explanation that I can think of is that, when he couldn't reach
> her by phone, he just decided to drive over.
Well, he does have a cell phone. He could have called the police as he
drove, but then again two minutes from Alexandria to Scully's place is
way too short for that, I guess.
> minutes worth of X-Files. This time I started taping a minute or so
> early, but still came up with less than 50 minutes on tape. I can't
Ha, I did that too, but I don't edit out the commercials. Too lazy, or
too busy griping about the latest plothole or something. <g> All in
all I didn't mind the ep, since it was better than Kitsunegari, but
that was before I tried to apply logic to it.
Take care,
Jintian
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
PennySyc
>It seems to me that, as a federal
>agent, what Scully did was inexcusable. As looking at her as a human being,
>as a victim, it had to be illegal too. I can't imagine how Mulder could word
>
>is report in a way that could get her off the hook. About the only way I see
>
>her not getting in trouble (arrested for murder? I'm not even sure what
>could be done to her) is by using some kind of "traumatic self-defense"
>excuse, if there is such a thing.
>
Well, Mulder is going to lie. That's basically what he was saying to her in
the bedroom. He'll probably say that he walked in just in time to see Scully
shooting Pfaster as they were struggling.
Yes, what Scully did was illegal, although a good attorney would get her off,
I'm sure. But her FBI career would be over if the facts came out.
>What was causing the "slo mo" effect?
IMO, that was just for our benefit. You know how traumatic moments in your
life somehow seem to happen very slowly? And it gave the whole scene an aura
of unreality. I don't think it had anything to do with the earlier hypnosis
scenes, although I can see how that would be confusing.
>I also couldn't grasp why Mulder and Scully just went home after finding
>Orison's body. They knew that Pfaster was still out there, and had already
>killed two people. They knew more about Pfaster and his behavior than anyone
>
>else, and they just WENT HOME?
Excellent point. I thought the same thing. At the very least, I would have
expected Mulder and Scully to check out her apartment first.
>And she just... gave up when Orison was killed?
I think that's supposed to be because they were invstigating the case as an
X-File, and Orison was the one they thought had the mystical powers. With him
gone, it became a simple manhunt. Possibly, Mulder thought Scully was better
off it due to her personal association with the case. Perhaps he thought she'd
be safer. He had no way of knowing at the time that Pfaster had targeted her.
>The only other
>explanation that I can think of is that, when he couldn't reach her by phone,
>
>he just decided to drive over.
I think this is it, and he was spurred on perhaps by hearing that song again on
the radio. BTW, Mulder could get to Georgetown in about ten minutes if there
was no traffic.
>Speaking of Pfaster's death -- how was it that Scully could kill him and
>Orison couldn't?
If you'll recall from Irresistible, whether Pfaster is actually a literal
monster was left ambiguous. In that ep and again here, only one person sees
him that way, and only for a moment. I think that the writers are playing with
the idea of evil and how it manifests itself in the world.
I think that Orison COULD have killed Pfaster. The vision of him as a demon
was his imagination, and it startled him enough that Pfaster was able to
overpower him. That whole mumbling and crying bit that Pfaster was doing was,
IMO, just a ploy to distract Orision and get him closer.
Scully didn't ever see Pfaster as a demon in this ep, just as an evil human
being. I'm sure others may disagree with me interpretation, and I'm not
enirely sure about it, but it's the only way it makes sense for Scully to have
been able to shoot him.
>What is everyone else's take on the issues above, and on Orison in general?
It wasn't perfect, but it was intriguing. It was creepy and dark and
suspenseful. And it certainly gave us some new insights into Scully.
Leslie
Deborah Tinsley
(DoThompso) wrote:
>>From: Bjm...@aol.com>... why I shouldn't be disappointed with this ep?
> I wish I could. "Hungry" no longer has the crown for worst ep of the season.
I agree. Orison was worse because it could have been so much better with a
little more cohesion, a little more imagination, and a fewer plot holes of
convenience.
> There is absolutely no justification for an officer of the law calmly shooting
> a suspect who is unarmed, covered by and (effectively) in the custody of
> another armed agent who is also not threatened.
Well I don't think just because Scully looked calm that she was calm. Notice
she was wearing a blanket at the end which indicated at least mild shock to
me.
No I think Scully was in some kind of state, one where she didn't see or
hear Mulder (the slow motion helped indicate this). I think the shooting was
trauma induced. Scully may be unraveling--but I wouldn't credit 1013 with
the sense to follow a thread in her character that was really
interesting--the crisis of faith could be interesting if they could find
someone with the knowledge, talent and background to write it. They took
Mulder down this road in both S5 & S6. They let us see his crisis of
faith, of belief in himself and his instincts (begun in Paper Hearts
actually), but I don't think they'll do the same with Scully in this, the
last season.
Indulge me as I quote from my Xemerick:
I don't think that I could abide
To see Scully's hands once more tied.
Terrorized by her fears
Dissolve into tears
With Mulder close at her side.
...
Also give "Victim Scully" a rest
She's made it through every test
Abducted and ill
I've had my fill
I want to see her at her best.
Kick-Ass is the Scully preferred
After all the poor girl has endured
First the chip then the bee
Frozen goo, monkey pee
Let her fly as free as a bird.
I could see a story line where Scully may just not be up to the kind of
work she's been doing the last 6 years--that she's burnt out. Maybe she gave
into her fear and killed Pfaster not just because of what he did to her but
because of all that has been done to her over the years. Maybe it's time for
Scully to quit the F.B.I., look into that normal life she has fantasized
bout, or at least take a leave of absence. She could use the time to figure
out what she wants to do with the rest of her life.
Deborah
heathe...@my-deja.com
disappointed me enough to drive me out of the
shadows.
This has been the problem all season: the
flatness that has crept into the writing makes
the plot holes all the more glaring. When
things are zipping along, you don't have the time
to say "Hey, wait a minute..." you just go with
the flow. There has been no zip that I have seen
thus far this year.
To me, "Orison" felt like two stories in one.
The Reverend Orison bit would have worked well
with just some generic serial killer (and again,
some thoughtful writing), allowing Scully to
meditate on good v evil without the added burden
of Donnie Pfaster.
But for myself (and I suspect for most of you) I
was waiting for "Irresistable II." I wanted to
learn what drove Pfaster, who suffers from a
mental disease that defies imagination. And then
I wanted to see Scully kick his tail.
That last part happened, and it is always nice to
see a woman charachter give as good as she gets,
although I remain ambivelent on her actually
executing him.
But I don't know any more Pfaster today than I
did the first time I saw "Irresistable." That's
unfortunate, because they could have really
plumbed the depths of the disordered brain,
rather than just writing him off as "Evil" and
left it there.
Pushing these two stories together made for one
unfocused and slow-moving hour. It's also how
you get dumb-bunny plot devices, like "OK, our
case is solved, let's go home." Mulder on an
case is like a wood tick on a deer: he doesn't
give up that easily. It was simply a ploy to get
Scully back to her apartment, probably because
they didn't think they could
repeat "Irresistable" by having Pfaster abduct
her again.
It's just painful to see such a innovative show
limp to the finish line....
Back to the shadows I go,
Heather
rufie
> What was causing the "slo mo" effect?
Rob Bowman
--
"I tried reality once, found it too confining"-Lily Tomlin
OpheliaMac
>unfocused and slow-moving hour.
Personally I was glued to the edge of my chair for most of the show -- not so
much with giggly, horror-film suspense but with genuine horror. In past
murderer eps the stalk-and-kill scenes are pretty truncated -- you see the
killer, you see the victim get into his car, then you see the flash of a crime
scene photographer's camera.
In "Orison" the whole violence against women thing was shown in ugly detail.
The extended beating scenes, Scully cowering in the closet, that horrible
picture of the girl who bled to death in the bath . . . they all seemed
disturbingly real to me. Hell, you don't even get that level of gory detail on
"The New Detectives," and they pass people's skulls around there.
I'm not sure if this is an overdue slap of reality -- killers are *not*
exciting and interesting, no matter what you see on TV -- or just deepy, deeply
sick. 30 seconds (maybe it was shorter or longer -- it felt longer) of a woman
being bound, gagged, stalked and beaten is not your usual prime-time
entertainment. Think about it -- in your average 50-minute action-adventure
show you almost never get a 30 second shot of anything!
I'm glad Scully was able to put a cap in Pfaster, because A., the character
deserved it, and B., it made dramatic sense. The ep had been building up to
this confrontation between Scully and Pfaster -- they have this hideous
history, plus some bizarre psychic (or fated) connection. It would have been
such a cop-out for Mulder to rush in and save the day. What a waste of
dramatic foreshadowing!
My problem with the ending is that Mulder shouldn't have been there at all. I
know the whole story was about moral ambiguity, blah, blah, blah, but I think
they sacrificed the dramatic interests of the ep for a vague (and unnecessary)
stab at philosophy. The minute Cavalry!Mulder burst through the door, I knew
Scully wouldn't be hurt (further) and that Pfaster was dead. The dramatic
tension vanished. Running the super slo-mo only served to turn my riveted
horror into irritated boredom. (That may have been the longest slow motion
scene in the history of the X-Files. Or did it just seem that way)? Had
Mulder not arrived until *after* Pfaster was shot the suspense would have
lasted until the last second, which would have been far more dramatically
satisfying.
I'm also uncomfortable with Second-Degree-Murder Scully, (well, maybe she'd
squeak by with manslaughter). I want to know -- where is 1013 going with this?
This ep could be salvaged by thorough and and thoughtful follow-up -- what
happens during the inevitable administrative leave Scully finds herself on?
How does the M&S partnership weather the time spent wondering if charges will
be filed, etc? Unfortunately I know of no plans to do this.
Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate the whole thing. The camera shots and
lighting were moody and gorgeous. (Those candles in the murder bathroom)! And
as I said, much of it was gripping as well as thought provoking. (If not quite
in the way the author intended. I was actually thinking, "Why do I watch shows
like this? Am I sick in the head? What's wrong with our society)?"
(P.S. -- did this remind anyone of the tone, if not the plot, of "Hannibal?"
Somehow Scully seemed more Starlingesque than she has in a long time).
--Ophelia
Michele Jackson
Konrad Douglas Frye wrote:
>
>
> Technically escaped prisoners are the responsibility of the US Marshals.
> The real plothole is how Donnie knew that Mulder and Scully were going to
> head home. I suppose the devil whispered it in his ear. Once again, the
> plot begins to unravel if you give it more than a passing glance.
Well, I think the devil did tell Pfaster, but a realistic
explanation could be that he didn't CARE when Scully got home.
Maybe he was just going to go there and camp out for awhile.
Maybe he was going to have a few prostitutes meet him there too,
just like at Orison's place. Whenever she did arrive home, he
would be waiting for her, didn't matter if it was sooner or
later.
As for their return, I think Mulder did it just to get Scully
home and safe. He asked why she was there in the prison. He was
antsy to leave the hospital room. Then, he finally tells her
let's go home. That's so unlike him that his intent just to get
her out of there was clear. I don't know why SHE returned,
especially after she gave her little speech about having to be
there to catch Pfaster and not having any choice in the matter in
the earlier scenes. Of course, once Orison died, she lost some
of her momentum. She told Mulder that she had been wrong, that
Orison was just an ordinary man not a messenger. She thought she
was there for a reason and so did Orison. When Orison died, she
begin to think that the notion that she had some kind of divine
purpose in apprehending Donnie was nonsense too. So, she agreed
to leave, but then once she was back in D.C. and Donnie did the
"hi honey you're home" routine, suddenly she realized the divine
purpose she thought she'd mistaken was back. Michele
Invisiphile
OpheliaMac <ophel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000110234527...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
> (P.S. -- did this remind anyone of the tone, if not the plot, of
"Hannibal?"
> Somehow Scully seemed more Starlingesque than she has in a long time).
I seriously doubt we'll get the media circus Clarice's shooting was
subjected to (heck we'll be lucky if 1013 remember it!). Hopefully Scully
won't follow Clarice's path into mind dazed despair - the complete lack of
hope at the end of Hannibal still gives me the chills.
Inv
Konrad Douglas Frye
>Konrad Douglas Frye wrote:
>>
>> Technically escaped prisoners are the responsibility of the US Marshals.
>> The real plothole is how Donnie knew that Mulder and Scully were going to
>> head home. I suppose the devil whispered it in his ear. Once again, the
>> plot begins to unravel if you give it more than a passing glance.
>Well, I think the devil did tell Pfaster, but a realistic
>explanation could be that he didn't CARE when Scully got home.
>Maybe he was just going to go there and camp out for awhile.
>Maybe he was going to have a few prostitutes meet him there too,
>just like at Orison's place. Whenever she did arrive home, he
>would be waiting for her, didn't matter if it was sooner or
>later.
The plot holes are still there. How did he know where she lived? How did
he manage to get back to DC ahead of them when he was travelling by car?
How was it the Highway Patrol didn't stop him? This kind of prison break
would have been all over CNN and Donnie's picture would have been
everywhere. *Somebody* would have seen him.
Timing *does* matter. If Scully was already at home talking on the phone
and Donnie didn't realize that, it's likely things would have happened
differently. The element of surprise that Donnie was allowed to have
should not be discounted.
>As for their return, I think Mulder did it just to get Scully
>home and safe. He asked why she was there in the prison. He was
>antsy to leave the hospital room. Then, he finally tells her
>let's go home. That's so unlike him that his intent just to get
>her out of there was clear. I don't know why SHE returned,
>especially after she gave her little speech about having to be
>there to catch Pfaster and not having any choice in the matter in
>the earlier scenes.
I think Mulder's reasons for returning were adequately explained. He
didn't really want her there to begin with. The reasons for Scully's
return are so vague as to be non-existant and look glaringly like a plot
device. I'm not overly happy about that.
swikstr
> I seriously doubt we'll get the media circus Clarice's shooting was
> subjected to (heck we'll be lucky if 1013 remember it!). Hopefully Scully
> won't follow Clarice's path into mind dazed despair - the complete lack of
> hope at the end of Hannibal still gives me the chills.]
Hmmm. That novel has been sitting, collecting dust on my night table since
its release last June. And it's only because I heard some unflattering
critique from people close to me whose opinions are usually pretty good. One
of them didn't even finish the book and she's a die-hard fan of Thomas Harris.
The ending you speak of sounds a great deal like what happened to Will Graham
at the end of "Red Dragon." Would you consider it to be the same?
-swik
--
"You mean you busted out."
"I prefer to think of it as an exodus from an undesirable place."
-- Jack Foley and Hijira Henry,
from "Out of Sight"
GravesPA2
>return are so vague as to be non-existant and look glaringly like a plot
>device. I'm not overly happy about that.
She was receiving "signs"---and I don't think she was very happy about it. So
when it seemed that her signs might have been wrong, I think she grabbed the
excuse to get away from the case and whatever it was she thought God might be
trying to tell her. The Bible is full of people who try to evade God's call
before coming to the realization that they can't really escape. I saw her
quick turnaround as evidence of something very similar going on inside her.
Of course, the question is---what was God trying to tell her? She doesn't
know--and neither do we. And I don't think that's necessarily a plot hole.
Paula Graves
A woman and her okra create a little webpage....
http://members.aol.com/gravespa2/index.htm
Michele Jackson
Deborah Tinsley wrote:
>
>
>
> Well I don't think just because Scully looked calm that she was calm. Notice
> she was wearing a blanket at the end which indicated at least mild shock to
> me.
>
> No I think Scully was in some kind of state, one where she didn't see or
> hear Mulder (the slow motion helped indicate this). I think the shooting was
> trauma induced. Scully may be unraveling--but I wouldn't credit 1013 with
> the sense to follow a thread in her character that was really
> interesting--the crisis of faith could be interesting if they could find
> someone with the knowledge, talent and background to write it. They took
> Mulder down this road in both S5 & S6. They let us see his crisis of
> faith, of belief in himself and his instincts (begun in Paper Hearts
> actually), but I don't think they'll do the same with Scully in this, the
> last season.
>
> Deborah
Yes, I noticed the shawl and thought shock as well. If she just
felt modest in her pajamas I think she would have put on a robe,
but seeing that around her shoulders, it reminded me of Scully
putting the blanket around Mulder when he showed up at the
hospital, in shock, to see his stroke-ridden mother. Also,
Scully didn't really aim. I think she knew exactly what she was
doing and I am not trying to say she was not herself. Her
actions would certainly fit the legal definition of
"premeditated." However, when she entered that room she was
dazed, unemotional and unresponsive. She shot and she hit
Pfaster, but it=s not as if she ever really focused on doing so.
She almost had to look at her own hand to verify that the bullets
came from her. I think the look Mulder gave her was as much
surprise because he hadn't seen the shot coming (her arm was
down, not outstretched and targeting Donnie like his own) as
anything else.
Scully was more collected and aware when we saw her struggling to
undo her ties in the bedroom than she was when she came in with
the gun. There was a zombie air to her actions and not just
because we were viewing them in slow motion.
Later, Scully went into her bedroom and had to close the window,
the same one that she had already closed that morning. I don't
think she opened it again before leaving for work, so I suppose
that must have been Donnie's method of ingress, the window
connected to the 666 message she found on her clock, because it
was the cold air from the window that roused her that morning. I
think the audience was definitely supposed to conclude that
Donnie was demonic. Too many magical things started to happen
around him and it progressed as the show went on. The
unexplained started because of Orison, but then devolved to
Donnie. It also seems significant that Donnie turned off the
stereo just before Mulder arrived. It was like he was expecting
Mulder and paid no attention to Mulder's orders as Mulder pointed
the gun on him. Instead, Donnie seemed to be waiting for Scully
to act.
Scully didn't think there was anything supernatural about
Donnie. She didn't think it in the beginning when she said as
much in the prison and she didn=t give herself an escape by
thinking it in the end after she killed him. However, I think
the audience was supposed to believe it and that was supposed to
justify Scully's acts for us, not for herself.
Michele
Invisiphile
swikstr <swi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:387B9ACD...@earthlink.net...
> Invisiphile wrote:
>
> > I seriously doubt we'll get the media circus Clarice's shooting was
> > subjected to (heck we'll be lucky if 1013 remember it!). Hopefully
Scully
> > won't follow Clarice's path into mind dazed despair - the complete lack
of
> > hope at the end of Hannibal still gives me the chills.]
>
> Hmmm. That novel has been sitting, collecting dust on my night table
since
> its release last June. And it's only because I heard some unflattering
> critique from people close to me whose opinions are usually pretty good.
One
> of them didn't even finish the book and she's a die-hard fan of Thomas
Harris.
>
> The ending you speak of sounds a great deal like what happened to Will
Graham
> at the end of "Red Dragon." Would you consider it to be the same?
In some ways, but I guess the effect of the hopelessness was more acute with
Clarice as we've had more back story with her over the two books as opposed
to Will and she was such a naively ambitious thing to start with. It's
almost as if Harris looked at the various facets of character growth he
allowed Clarice to experience in Silence and then systematically chipped
away at them in Hannibal leaving a hollow desolate shell of a woman. Having
said that <g> it's still worth a read, some good plot twists, snappy
dialogue, great Florence section but a profoundly sad aftertaste. If nothing
else reading it will help clarify Jodie Foster's reluctance for the sequel -
though I'm not sure I can see GA doing it either...but then again the woman
does good angst! <bg>
Inv
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
<mjac...@earthlink.net> wrote:
snip
> It also seems significant that Donnie turned off the
>stereo just before Mulder arrived. It was like he was expecting
>Mulder and paid no attention to Mulder's orders as Mulder pointed
>the gun on him. Instead, Donnie seemed to be waiting for Scully
>to act.
Which leads to a faint stir in my own brain that I've been toying with
over the ambiguity--could Donnie have been looking for suicide by cop
shooting? Maybe not at Scully's hands, but by Mulder?
Think about it for a moment, and it does start to make an eerie sort
of sense, especially since he apparently was the one who called in
Orison's death....
jrw
Michele Jackson
Joyce Reynolds-Ward wrote:
>
>
>
> Which leads to a faint stir in my own brain that I've been toying with
> over the ambiguity--could Donnie have been looking for suicide by cop
> shooting? Maybe not at Scully's hands, but by Mulder?
>
> Think about it for a moment, and it does start to make an eerie sort
> of sense, especially since he apparently was the one who called in
> Orison's death....
>
> jrw
I don't think so. Pfaster looked like he was getting ready for,
well for what HE considers "romance." He didn't look like a man
who was planning to go and meet his maker. So, I don't think he
came there to die. However, after Mulder heard the song and
started on his way over, I think before he arrived Donnie knew
the gig was up. He seemed so unconcerned with Mulder -- turning
away from him and turning towards Scully even before she turned
the corner -- that I don't think he thought Mulder COULD kill
him. If he expected death, I think he expected it to come from
Scully's hands.
YOu know they talked about what they were GOING to tell the AD,
but I wonder what they had already told the police who were
there. They didn't have to give an official report to the
locals, but they must have given some kind of statement. The way
Mulder said that he'd be right back to the police officer before
he went into Scully's bedroom indicated that he'd been conversing
with the police before. Maybe whatever statement they gave was
quite general, but I'd like to know what it was. What did Scully
say? "I shot him as he was . . ."
Standing in the room between the two of us doing nothing?
When you're defending your home, you don't have to retreat before
employing self-defense measures. Usually, you do have to retreat
before using deadly force if you can retreat safely, but not when
you're defending your home. So, the fact that it happened in her
apartment did give Scully some leeway, but she still was supposed
to have been in "present" danger.
I know what you mean about the ambiguity. So many things in the
episode seem to turn against each other and away from one, single
answer. For instance, who, which side, was using the song? The
song warned Mulder, so that makes me think it had a heavenly
source. Yet, Orison and Donnie were aware of it too. Of course,
having once been an angel himself, I guess the devil does know
what God is doing and knowing that tries to use his prescience as
a weapon to tempt sinners. Plus, just because that song was
playing when Donnie turned on the stereo doesn't mean that he was
responsible for it playing. Maybe he had no more control over
hearing it than Scully did, although once it started playing, he
seemed to feel that his evil plans towards Scully had been
fortified and that the struggle was over and her fate already
sealed. It turned out his was. Michele
Magpie
<snip>
> I know what you mean about the ambiguity. So many things in the
> episode seem to turn against each other and away from one, single
> answer. For instance, who, which side, was using the song? The
> song warned Mulder, so that makes me think it had a heavenly
> source. Yet, Orison and Donnie were aware of it too. Of course,
> having once been an angel himself, I guess the devil does know
> what God is doing and knowing that tries to use his prescience as
> a weapon to tempt sinners. Plus, just because that song was
> playing when Donnie turned on the stereo doesn't mean that he was
> responsible for it playing. Maybe he had no more control over
> hearing it than Scully did, although once it started playing, he
> seemed to feel that his evil plans towards Scully had been
> fortified and that the struggle was over and her fate already
> sealed. It turned out his was. Michele
That's exactly why this episode only makes sense to me if the
signs like the song on the radio come from neither God nor
the Devil, but are just illustrating Scully's own state of
mind about Pfaster. It makes God seem like a bit of a
jerk otherwise. If Scully is trying so hard to honestly
do his will and the Devil gives her this sign, wouldn't
God be able to help her out if she asked him? It makes
the whole thing sound like the Job story, with God sitting
back to see if Scully figures out what the message really
mean because he's got money riding on it or something.
Why speak in riddles just to be obtuse? (That's probably
a really bad way to look at the Job story, I know.)
That's the problem with throwing in a little something
like this without really dealing with the consequences.
-m
--
"Yes, that's right...Love should come before
logic...Only then will man come to understand the
meaning of life." - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
snip
>That's the problem with throwing in a little something
>like this without really dealing with the consequences.
Yeah, more and more I really think this writer was really writing off
the cuff without thinking things through, or doing research. Which
creates lots of major problems with this episode.
But then, I'm all for tossing it in the can as ultimately useless.
Too bad, as it could have been a good one--but there's too much sloppy
writing/worldbuilding/plotting in this story. Too much of "hey! this
idea's cool! let's toss it in the stew!"
jrw