Origin of Steelgrave Name
bruno
Melody Womack wrote:
> In talking amongst ourselves, the question arose as to why Sonny whose
> family came from Palermo
> would have a decidedly unItalian last name like Steelgrave.
It could be that the family Steelgrave changed their name when they
arrived in the US, like some foreigners did to get into the
US.Otherwise, in the movie "The Untouchables", Andy Garcia played an
sicilian-origine cop called George Stone and his original name was
Giuseppe Petri (or something like that).
--
__________________________________________________
| Bruno. |
| Wiseguy Café |
| http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/4836/ |
| Member of TCWR |
| ________________________________________________|
Melody Womack
In article <3471DBE3...@realtime-info.be>,
bruno <B.Wil...@realtime-info.be> wrote:
>Melody Womack wrote:
>
>> In talking amongst ourselves, the question arose as to why Sonny whose
>> family came from Palermo
>> would have a decidedly unItalian last name like Steelgrave.
>
>It could be that the family Steelgrave changed their name when they
>arrived in the US, like some foreigners did to get into the
>US.Otherwise, in the movie "The Untouchables", Andy Garcia played an
>sicilian-origine cop called George Stone and his original name was
>Giuseppe Petri (or something like that).
>
That's what I thought at first, but apparently Cannell who's a big reader deliberately chose
the name from Chandler's book. As for Americanizing names, I've not read of a single Mafiosi
who changed their name to something more American. They're too proud of their Sicilian origins
to change. It's also why I have a small problem with Sonny's boss being named Mahoney. Unless
your father is Italian you don't get made period. But perhaps Cannell was thinking of Westies
at the time and that's why he came up with that particular name.
MelodyW
WG, S.A.D.
http://www.pic.net/~mwomack
http://www.pic.net/~mwomack/wiseguy.html
Melody Womack
In article <64qrb4$a...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>,
Melody Womack <mwo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>In talking amongst ourselves, the question arose as to why Sonny whose family came from Palermo
>would have a decidedly unItalian last name like Steelgrave. Turns out that the name
*Steelgrave*
>originated in one of Raymond Chandler's novels, THE LITTLE SISTER.
And while I'm on the subject of sources for names in STEELGRAVE, the connection between Atlantic
City and Philadelphia a la Sonny and Mahoney was quite real and Cannell had read about it. In
the 70's before gambling was legalized in AC Angelo Bruno, boss of Philly, sent Nicky Scarfo
down to organize the seaside town for him. But in 1980 Bruno was clipped because he wouldn't
share enough of the immense cash he was raking in from AC with New York. After Bruno's death
and the quick removal of his successor, Phil Testa via nail bomb, a five year war developed for
control of Philly. On one side was Harry "the Hunchback" Riccobene, an old ally of Bruno's. On
the other was Scarfo who had a guy named Pat "the Cat" Sporito working for him. There were
numerous Vinnies, Franks, Sonnys, and Salvatores on both sides as well. While there are
several parallels between Scarfo and Sonny as well as with both Harrys, fortunately Cannell
stopped with the names in most cases. Good thing since the original Vinnie came to a bad end
along with nearly 30 others.
MelodyW
WG, S.A.D.
http://www.pic.net/~mwomack
Paul Browne
Melody Womack <mwo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: In article <3471DBE3...@realtime-info.be>,
: bruno <B.Wil...@realtime-info.be> wrote:
: >Melody Womack wrote:
: >
: >> In talking amongst ourselves, the question arose as to why Sonny whose
: >> family came from Palermo
: >> would have a decidedly unItalian last name like Steelgrave.
...Was it ever said what Sonny's real last name was? "Stellagravano" or
something like that?
Remember that many on the wrong side of the law tend to use aliases.
It's not as common now as in past years, what with record-keeping being so
generally thorough these days, because the "outlaw" will get "found out"
anyway. Still, also remember that even on WG Sonny was hardly the only
"big cheese" to operate with a changed name: Mel & Susan Profitt=Mel &
Susan Martin, Winston Newquay=Samuel Fishbine (was he Jewish?)...Even Knox
Pooley it was suggested had operated under different aliases (though iirc
"Knox Pooley" was indeed his real name). I'm not sure how "legal" "Sonny
Steelgrave" was as a name and how much it was just an alias/handle, or if
this was ever specified...
: >It could be that the family Steelgrave changed their name when they
: >arrived in the US, like some foreigners did to get into the
: >US.Otherwise, in the movie "The Untouchables", Andy Garcia played an
: >sicilian-origine cop called George Stone and his original name was
: >Giuseppe Petri (or something like that).
: >
: That's what I thought at first, but apparently Cannell who's a big
: reader deliberately chose the name from Chandler's book. As for
: Americanizing names, I've not read of a single Mafiosi who changed their
: name to something more American.
...Then you should read more. ;) During the 1920's-1930's, Al Capone's
chief triggerman was "Machine Gun" Jack McGurn. His real name was
supposedly Vincenzo Demora but, decades after his death, a writer
researched his background all the way from the US to Licata, Sicily, and
came up with "Vincenzo Gibaldi." In fact his boss Al Capone was generally
known around Chicago as "Al Brown"...until he became too notorious to get
away with an alias. Here's an excerpt from MR. CAPONE:
As Al Brown and many other criminals did to frustrate
identification...Gibaldi <PAB note: yet another McGurn/Demora/Gibaldi
alias> adopted an alias <PAB note: indeed, "Billy the Kid" was known at
various times under his real name Henry McCarty as well as Henry Antrim,
Kid Antrim, William Bonney, Kid and BtK...he had so many names that many
still think the "real" one was William Bonney; Jesse James was known as
"Mr. Howard"; "Bugs" Moran was known as either George Miller or George
Morrissey etc...>..."Machine Gun" Jack McGurn...when he became notorious
for at least twenty-two killings. Thereafter, many would explain that his
REAL name was Demory or Demora...or maybe Gebardi.
So I tend to think the "Steelgrave" name may well have been a
latter-day instance of "McGurn."
: They're too proud of their Sicilian origins
: to change.
...Oh not at all. In fact you're off twice here. First of course not
nearly all of what might be called "Cosa Nostra" have "Sicilian origins."
Al Capone, Vito Genovese, Johnny Torrio=Neapolitan...Frank
Costello=Calabrian (I don't think Gotti's Sicilian either).
Second, besides the above-mentioned McGurn, I can think of a few
instances offhand. Boss Tommy Lucchese became so well known by his alias
"Three Finger Brown" that many in Brooklyn thought it was his real
name...and he tended to play along with it. Only real insiders and some
law enforcement authorities, during his own lifetime, knew that Brown was
"really" Lucchese. And...Joe Valachi's associate was named "Tony Bender"
(I think it may have been "Anthony Strollo" originally), as far as I know
he wasn't called anything else but "Bender"...may even have had this as
his legal name. Finally, one of my own relatives by marriage (I am second
generation Neapolitan/Sicilian btw and look at *my* name) was known as
"Buck O'Neill." He was from an old Italian family and a "CN" soldier,
maybe a "captain" later on...but again became so well known as "O'Neill"
that no one ever knew it was anything else.
: It's also why I have a small problem with Sonny's boss being named
: Mahoney. Unless your father is Italian you don't get made period.
...What makes you think one has to get "made" to be a "boss"? Methinks
you may have been reading one too many Puzo books. Meyer Lansky was for
many years a major Syndicate figure and frequently employed
Italian-Americans such as Dino Cellini (as well as non-Italians) in his
operations. Even THE GODFATHER admits a very fictionalized version of this
reality, with Lee Strasberg as Hyman Roth...Vincent Teresa also
admitted to working for Lansky in his book (although he was very shadowy
about the details). Italian "Cosa Nostra" figures have been known to work
with (sometimes *for*) non-Italians, this "multi-ethnic mob" is what tends
to be called the "Syndicate." Owen Madden (Irish) was known to be a major
figure for years, so were Frank McErlane (Irish), Dutch Schultz and Bugsy
Siegel (Jewish), Bugs Moran and Joe Saltis (Polish)...at least in the
earlier years. And others...in addition to Lansky. I think the
"Commission" episodes with Albert Cerrico and Alex Vechoff were meant to
reflect this.
Another example for you: Vincent "Schemer" Drucci worked for Dion
O'Banion (Irish) and then Hymie Weiss (Polish) in 1920's Chicago, until
their deaths (instigated by Capone and others) promoted him to
co-leadership with Moran (he was later killed in battle with police). What
you have to consider is: 1) was "Mahoney" really Irish-American e.g. was
that his real name? 2) was their relationship really that of Mahoney being
Sonny's "boss" or was it more that Sonny had to mediate with the larger,
more influential forces (at least at first) of Mahoney and Patrice?
: But perhaps Cannell was thinking of Westies
: at the time and that's why he came up with that particular name.
...Could be but see above.