Cooper was possessed by BOB just like Leland was. I think that BOB intended
on using Cooper in the same way that he used Leland to kill people. That's
why we saw BOB's face in the mirror when Coop smashed his head into it at
the end of the last episode.
Furthermore, for several years it has been the general feeling of this
newsgroup that Major Briggs is the only character who has the potential to
save Cooper's true self who is still trapped in the lodge due to the fact
that Briggs has been in the Black Lodge before and he escaped without being
possessed by any spirits.
I think that if the show had continued, we would have seen Cooper kill a few
people before the townspeople figured out that everything was happening
again and that's when we would have seen Major Briggs enter that Black Lodge
and rescue Dale Cooper.
I may be wrong, but I think that this is the most logical explanation of
what happened based on the events that transpired during the series.
Thanks for reading,
Jeremy
I think you have to pass through the black lodge and meet your shadow
self before you can get to the white lodge.
Adam
Unfortunately, that is only one side of an ongoing debate...
I personally believe that it WASN'T Cooper possessed by BOB,
but Coop's doppelganger working in tandem with BOB.
The 'good' Coop remained in the lodge, to allow Laura's spirit/soul/whatever
to 'move on'... ie, to leave the red room and enter the White Lodge.
Hence the final scene in FWWM.
I used to think of this as my own craving for a 'happy ending'...
but then I found this quote by Harley Peyton to reinforce that idea:
"Just for the record, our original intention was to play it as if good
Coop had left the lodge with Bob inside him. Then, at some later
date, reveal that it was, in fact, his doppleganger.
Too bad we never got the chance." - HP
> Furthermore, for several years it has been the general feeling of this
> newsgroup that Major Briggs is the only character who has the potential to
> save Cooper's true self who is still trapped in the lodge due to the fact
> that Briggs has been in the Black Lodge before and he escaped without being
> possessed by any spirits.
First, Maj Briggs' descriptions tend to make one think he had ventured to
the White Lodge, rather than the Black
I also don't think he was the only one who could pick up where Coop left off.
A scene from the final ep that didn't make the cut was of HST receiving a
sword from a 'lady of the lake'... a king arthur type scenario.
I also tend to think of Margaret playing a key role (as usual) if the series
had continued. Both she and Maj Briggs seemed to share quite a bit in common
in this case.
As for the third season, I think I'd actually enjoy straying from Twin Peaks
a little bit. We've seen how the town of Twin Peaks is just one of what
may be a number of other 'nexuses' between the Lodges. I think it would be
interesting if the series was less of a simple continuation, but rather
*based* on the original two seasons.
thinkin about startin my own third season,
Reznik the Great and Powerful
(pay no attention to that man behind the curtain)
"The ability to quote is a
serviceable substitute for wit."
-=W. Somerset Maugham=-
"Brevity is... wit."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Twin Peaks COMPLETE
http://www.iosin.com/twinpeaks
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Right with ya'. But is this really any happier? I guess it is, if you can
make yourself believe that "the good Dale" would eventually have figured
out what the hell was going on, and managed to leave the lodge.
Unfortunately, he's still there as we speak...
--
|-o-| damnfine |-o-|
damn...@cyberdude.com
--
Quotes of the moment:
"My cat's breath smells like cat food."
"When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine university."
- Ralph Wiggum, The Simpsons.
--
http://www.angelfire.com/sk/garmonbozia (STILL under construction....real
world committments....slowing....me....down....)
--
When Cooper enters the Black Lodge, anything can happen...
BOB is the ultimate evil....
Every person has a dark side of themselves..
In the Black Lodge, you can confront your dark side..
Cooper's dopple is working with BOB, because one is Evil and the other one
grows stronger with Evil's influence(Dopple)
Cooper's good side just lost out in his own mind. Anything can happen in the
BL though and that explains how Cooper's good side can be trapped in
i'm new to the group - just thought i write some of my ideas / questions...
entering the BL coop is facing his doppelganger with imperfect courage - he
runs away from it. so, the good coop stays in the BL and the doppelganger -
inhabited by bob - leaves the lodges...
but what is going on with temporal progression in the BL? (ep. 26 windom
earle states something about that the BL could re-order the world outside)
and is there any relation in between annie and caroline? wasn't caroline
stabbed in our world and not annie...
corona
...this must be where pies go when they die...
> i'm new to the group - just thought i write some of my ideas / questions...
> entering the BL coop is facing his doppelganger with imperfect courage - he
> runs away from it. so, the good coop stays in the BL and the doppelganger -
> inhabited by bob - leaves the lodges...
That was my first impression too, and the shock & dismay of Cooper's aparent
fate (until you get more tidbits in FWWM) really bummed me. But prompted by
some lively discussions here & bits from the FAQ @ Twin Peaks Online, I
rethought it.
"Imperfect courage" is laid out by Hawk early on, and is easily accessible as an
explanation. That's not Lynch, however - there's always more to it.
[Here's my play-by-play]
The coffee transmogrifies, the LMFAP says "FWWM", and there's a shot of an
fireball. Cooper then hears a scream somewhere (Laura, but he's probably
unsure). He gets up and calmly goes to investigate. No fear so far. He checks
out some rooms, sees Laura's doppel approach screaming like a banshee. Still
calm, but then flashes the face of Windom Earle. Cooper is startled and flees.
Is he afraid, or does he realize that Earle is manipulating what he's shown and
decides it wise to retreat?
The next room he enters he notices he's just been stabbed (by Windom). Does he
get the hell out of there? No, he backtracks to investigate. Again he is shown
illusions that confuse him, but he doesn't react fearfully, only sympathetic to
the 2 lovers he's shown stabbed.
The next shot is point-of-view going back down the 'corridor', as Cooper is
calling "Annie?". I believe there is a "reset" here, as Windom has failed to
elicit fear from Cooper. Windom tries more illusions, presents Annie & the
bargain for his soul to Cooper. Cooper accepts without hesitation or fear of
personal consequences. Windom stabs him, fire erupts but then flows back, and
the stab is reversed. BOB appears holding Windom by the neck. Windom was
assisting BOB, but failed & then overstepped his bounds by asking for Coop's
soul.
BOB annihalates Windom's soul - so by Hawk's lore what we really have is Windom
facing *his* test with Imperfect Fear. (something to chew on) Cooper is
trapped by his bargain, and although his soul is not technically given over,
control of his shadow self is lost. But BOB instructs him, "You go." So Cooper
backs away slowly (I wouldn't turn my back on a monster)[Rush ref]. He doesn't
see his doppel enter and cackle with BOB, but when he does see him I think he
knows what's up. Nonetheless, he attempts escape. He fails.
If we accept Hawk's lore, then we do have evidence that Cooper did not fail his
test. His soul was not annihalated, Windom's was. Control of his doppel (or
perhaps his soul) was forfeited, but Cooper remains in the Red Room. This is
why (I think) BOB says with such contempt "You go.". He didn't get what he'd
hoped and planned for since leaving Leland. Total possession of Cooper. He
takes what he can get, and is going to send the doppel on some heinous missions,
but he's lost Cooper and in the process freed Laura's soul. Perhaps this is why
Cooper's doppel is so reckless with the charade in our world (cracking the
mirror with 2 friends nearby...duh). BOB is planning some quick & dirty
harvesting, and leaving Cooper's name & reputation soiled in our world. It's
the best/worst he can muster.
Meanwhile, Cooper's noble sacrifice does let Annie live (for now), and his
presence in the Red Room allows Laura to pass on. So it's a very well concealed
triumph.
I'm glad Lynch made me "do the legwork".
Skibbb
"I like to think of myself as one of the Happy Generation" - Albert
I think it is possible for characters to go straight to the White Lodge.
There are just different ways to get there.
Derek
that's really something to chew on!!!!!
i think i better watch the ending again...
thanks for your "help! i'll get back to you whenever i really have some
facts to oppose....
corona
*signing off....
In article <7htskj$67p$1...@news08.btx.dtag.de>,
HM-F...@t-online.de (corona) wrote:
< i'm new to the group >
Then you're very welcome here!
< entering the BL coop is facing his doppelganger with imperfect courage
- he runs away from it. so, the good coop stays in the BL and the
doppelganger -inhabited by bob - leaves the lodges... >
I think that you're totally right on this. If Cooper entered dead (as
the rest of the people seem to do), he'd be immediately condemned, but
since he isn't physically dead, he just has to wait at the Waiting Room
for body and soul to be reunited, maybe with a chance of redeeming
himself.
< is there any relation in between annie and caroline? wasn't caroline
stabbed in our world and not annie... >
Temporal progression in the Lodges seems to be different than in our
world, that's why in FWWM we see Annie in the Lodge way before it
happened, or why also in FWWM Coop can be at the same time under the
surveillance camera and watching himself on the monitor -that would
indicate that Lodges-activity also affects time in our own reality.
Also, I think that thing with the coffee on TP's last ep also refers to
time, since the only difference between something solid, liquid, or
viscous, is the speed with which an object's particles move (though, I
have to say, there are many other interpretations for this last
example).
About Annie-Caroline, I think we see it all through Cooper's eyes while
he's going through his soul test, so he's just constantly mistaking one
for the other out of his confusion, as he feels guilty about both and
feels he's (or will be) responsible for the death of the two women he's
ever truly loved.
Marcelo E Mazzanti
'Get out of my kitchen!'
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
In article <Pine.OSF.3.93.99052...@sparrow.qut.edu.au>,
DEREK RICE <n257...@sparrow.qut.edu.au> wrote:
< No, I don't think you do have to pass through the BL etc. Remember in
episode 8 when cooper was shot and the giant talked to him.
Cooper: "Where are you from?"
Giant: (shakes head) "The question is, where have you gone?"
I think it is possible for characters to go straight to the White
Lodge.
There are just different ways to get there. >
I think this is the kind of things we'll never know. Hawk was pretty
clear about having to pass through the BL to get to the WL, but that
supposedly only applies to people who die to end up in one place or
another, so I assume there are every kind of exceptions if one is still
alive (and we only saw the exceptions).
No. Cooper was strong. BOB was only aloud to inhabit him when coop's
doppelganger took control of the vessela nd invited BOB in. Hence,
good-cooper was trapped in the lodge.
Leland, on the other hand was weak. It didn't take an exchange of
doppelgangers to allow BOB to enter Leland's vessel. As a result,
bad-leland was could remain in the lodge. And as he honestly says in
epsiode 29 "I didn't kill anybody." This is true, because GOOD Leland
killed those people.
~doppelganger_79
just a quick "thanx for the welcome"
In article <7igoeq$1c4$1...@news04.btx.dtag.de>,
HM-F...@t-online.de (corona) wrote:
> just a quick "thanx for the welcome"
Then, just a quick 'You're welcome for the thanx for the welcome.'
'Do you like my ring?,'
Marcelo E Mazzanti
'To you from failing hands we throw the torch,
be yours to hold it high.' -John McCrae
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/