Why did BOB kill Josie?
Jeremy Malcolm
And why did he apparently imprison her soul in the handle of a wooden
chest of drawers (that strikes me as a pretty dumb place)?
Also, how did he kill her? There is no suggestion that Josie was
inhabited by BOB (in which case he could have killed her in the same way
he killed Leland). Laura, Theresa and Maddy were killed by BOB in
Leland's body, so I had assumed that BOB could not kill them without a
human agent. Maybe I'm wrong about this: maybe BOB just killed those
three for fun, but he killed Josie for some other reason... to keep a
secret, maybe.
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======= Reality is for those who can't face science fiction
joseph
BOB killed JOSSIE? Is that the agreement in this newsgroup? I thought
Jossie died of fear. BOB was present in the room. Maybe it was him that
scared her. But I saw no evidence of BOB inhabiting JOSSIE!
Any ideas people?
David Neil McCarty
You seem to have a point there, Jeremy. When you say that maybe
he killed Josie for a reason--"to keep a secret"--maybe that's not so bad
of a place to keep a secret--in an old chest of drawers. Was it the
handle? I can't remember.
As weird as it sounds, I have actually heard of "furniture
possession." And there's a type of psychic phenomenon called "temeletry"
which can involve furniture--it's where a sensitive, or a telemeter, or
whatever touches an object and can pick up old feelings and memories
associated with the object. Maybe the whole drawer thing is an allusion
to that...a sensitive would perhaps touch the handle of the chest and
"feel"/remember Josie, or BOB in the room, or the occasion on which it
happened.
David
Snibor Eoj
joseph (an...@tp.edu) wrote:
: BOB killed JOSSIE? Is that the agreement in this newsgroup? I thought
: Jossie died of fear. BOB was present in the room. Maybe it was him that
: scared her. But I saw no evidence of BOB inhabiting JOSSIE!
: Any ideas people?
Actually, I believed that BOB felt Josie's fear, and that was what drew him
to that place...
Snibor Eoj
jmro...@sccs.swarthmore.edu http://www.cs.swarthmore.edu/~robins/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a member of the Non-Sequitur Association of America
"Diane, it struck me again this morning that there are two things that
continue to trouble me, and I'm speaking now not only as an agent of the
Bureau but also as a human being: What really went on between Marilyn
Monroe and the Kennedys, and who really pulled the trigger on JFK?"
-FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper
Pat McKeown
joseph wrote:
>
> BOB killed JOSSIE? Is that the agreement in this newsgroup? I thought
> Jossie died of fear. BOB was present in the room. Maybe it was him that
> scared her. But I saw no evidence of BOB inhabiting JOSSIE!
>
> Any ideas people?
I still don't get why see was 65 punds lighter. Any ideas on this? I
havn't heard a theory on this one yet.
-Bixter Friendly
Seofon
Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>
> And why did he apparently imprison her soul in the handle of a wooden
> chest of drawers (that strikes me as a pretty dumb place)?
>
> inhabited by BOB (in which case he could have killed her in the same way
> he killed Leland).
I agree with the responses so far: Bob had no direct hand in Josie's
death, though it obviously interested him. Josie is a great example of
someone else who's "filled with secrets".
Doc said Josie died from fear ... which Bob happens to feed on.
Interesting about the weight loss, too ...
As far as the wooden drawer pull, it has been suggested that wood has
the property of being able to contain souls. The Log, for one ...
--Seofon
Jeff
joseph <an...@tp.edu> wrote:
>BOB killed JOSSIE? Is that the agreement in this newsgroup? I thought
>Jossie died of fear. BOB was present in the room. Maybe it was him that
>scared her. But I saw no evidence of BOB inhabiting JOSSIE!
>Any ideas people?
My take on this was that Bob attacked Jossie. Bob feeds on fear and
Jossie was perticularly fearfull of Bob during his attack, which made
Bob attack on her even more ferocious. So much so that even though
Bob is not a physical being per-se, he consumed a large portion of her
body weight that was unaccounted for when they found Jossie's body.
Nexus6A
<<I still don't get why see was 65 punds lighter. Any ideas on this? I
havn't heard a theory on this one yet.>>
Remember that her face (and perhaps her soul) were seen in the drawer
pull. She was trapped in the wood (or escaped there). She was lighter
because her soul escaped, leaving behind the husk of her body. This would
be in keeping with the Twin Peaks/Buddhist mysticism that the soul is very
important (substantial).
Kush Sound
For two episodes, Josie's story seems to comes full circle. A spirit
seems to enter her from a wood table in episode 22, during a discussion
about the death of Jonathan Kumagai and the general suspicion of her
activities. In episode 23, the first shot of the series is repeated,
(doubled, twinned.) The shot is Josie applying lipstick in the mirror
(her reflection itself a double) and turning to the camera, as Josie faces
Andrew and the almost certain death she must now face with Eckahardt. The
fact is: Josie's lies have created a second personality for her. She is,
like Laura, leading a double life. One is the doppleganger of the other.
But who is Josie really? An innocent from the streets of China? The
unfortunate widow of Andrew Packard? The Killer of Andrew? The
co-conspirator with Hank to Kill Andrew? The pawn of Eckhardt to kill
Andrew? Eckhardts' one true love? The killer of Jonathan? The attempted
murderer of Cooper? Harry's true love?
Josie can be read in part as a symbol of duality. And she is a good
example of how deeply layerd secrets (see website topic "Speculations
about Judy") creates the duality that drives the entire series. The red
room is the waiting room to the two lodges, black/ white, light/dark,
good/evil. Key ideas: Doppleganger; Shadow self; Twin self; and facing
these things fearlessly. Hawk: "There is also a tale of the black
lodge. The shadow self of the white lodge. It is said that all men must
pass through here on their way to perfection. Here we will meet our own
shadow self. My people call it the dweller on the threshold. But it is
said if you face your own shadow self with imperfect courage it will
utterly annihalate your soul." Cooper is faced in the final episode by
his doppleganger, his shadow self. He runs in fear. It annihaltes his
soul, perhaps replacing it with another. Major Briggs: (on dealing with
perpexities) "If our choice is fear we become vulnerable to darkness.
Cooper: (after being shot) "But I guess you can say that about most
anything in life. Its OK as long as you can keep the fear from your
mind." Josie died in the end of episode 23 when her fear attracted Bob to
her. He took advantage of her escaping soul and trapped it in wood.
Hawk: "The wood holds many spirits." Pete: (looking into a piece of wood)
"Josie I see your face." This in turn strengthens Bob and allows him more
leverege in enticing Cooper into the Lodge, which is what I think they
were trying to do all along. Use Windom Earle to get Coop in the Lodge;
use Annie; use Laura; use Teresa Banks; all to trick Cooper closer and
closer. I believe all the evil caused by Bob was to attract Cooper to
Twin Peaks and trick him into entering the Lodge. A triumph then for Bob
to enter the body of someone with access to power: an FBI agent. Jean
Renault said "Maybe you brought the evil with you and maybe the evil die
with you." I believe Cooper is, for all intents and purposes, dead, but
his trapped soul eternalizes him into martyr status, as he takes his death
to save Annie from hers. The irony is, the evil continues. It is always
there, on the threshold. Bob is out in in the world. We see evidence of
it on the news every night. We must be forever watchful, or else live in
fear.
Avery909
I suppose all interpretations are valid, but at the time it seemed much
simpler. Joan Chen wasn't interested in continuing in the role of Josie --
at one point her agent called up say, "gee, sorry, but she won't be
available for a while as she's working in China..." -- and so it was
determined that Josie should leave the show somehow, someway. David came
up with the Josie-in-the-wood idea, and while none of us really knew what
he was talking about, well, it more or less proceeded from there.
That's a pretty mundane explanation, but an accurate one. And yet, as
always, I suspect it in no way refutes any of the more complex textural
explanations...
Harley Peyton
Rich Haller
aver...@aol.com (Avery909) wrote:
>Harley Peyton
Thanks for that explanation, Harley.
It is yet another example that, interesting as it may be, there is a
_lot_ of speculation about TP that is based on mudane things.
For example, (and perhaps you can confirm this), people made a big deal
about the domino changing pips and claiming it reflected how many people
he had killed, but supposedly all that happened was that the original
domino was lost and the props people just grabbed another.
Likewise, the inconsistencies in the chess board were just sloppy
setups. There are _lots_ of minor continuity glitches that people keep
wanting to turn into something.
Speaking of props, as I type, on either side of my monitor stand the two
tikis that Jacoby had! I got them in LA on a recent trip at a store that
mostly sells 'clothes of the stars' (specially Pia Zadora. If you are
petite, you have a potential goldmine there), but also has some props.
These were the only TP things they had.
Rich <rha...@ns.uoregon.edu>
KAndr76741
my guess on why Josie only weighed 65 pounds at the autopsy is because BOB
had left her body. after all, Cooper sees Bob in the room when Josie
dies, and i think it reflects that the evil that made her attempt to kill
Cooper and Packard, as well as kill Eckhardt has left her body as she
dies. so, perhaps this is a birth metaphor....the evil escapes her body
after she receives love from Harry, but BOB has eaten his way through her,
leaving her too weak to live on her own after he leaves her body. same
thing happened to Leland.
Kyrre Trohjell
KAndr76741 wrote:
>
> my guess on why Josie only weighed 65 pounds at the autopsy is because BOB
attracted to her fear. Fear was what made her kill Eckhardt and it was
also what made her try to kill Cooper. He ate of her fear and sorrow,
which constitutes physical matter, which was the reason of her weight
loss.
after all, Cooper sees Bob in the room when Josie
the virtually flawless vehicle. She was killed by fear, not by BOB.
Leland gradually fell apart due to physical and mental stress, being
the host of BOB over the years. Cooper was the kind of vehicle BOB had
been looking for, and the capture of Cooper was probably scheemed for
a long time.
Kyrre.
The Creamed Corn Kid
KAndr76741 wrote:
>
> my guess on why Josie only weighed 65 pounds at the autopsy is because BOB
> dies, and i think it reflects that the evil that made her attempt to kill
> Cooper and Packard, as well as kill Eckhardt has left her body as she
> dies. so, perhaps this is a birth metaphor....the evil escapes her body
> after she receives love from Harry, but BOB has eaten his way through her,
> leaving her too weak to live on her own after he leaves her body. same
> thing happened to Leland.
I've also heard that hundreds of years ago people believed that souls
physically exsisted within the human body. Men would weigh corpses to
see if people weighed less when they died because their souls had
departed from the rest of their bodies. Of course, these tests proved
the theory wrong, but when I first heard of Josie weighing less this
is the first thing that came to my mind. What was it that Josie
weighed when she died anyway? Wasn't it something like 60 pounds?
______________________________________________________________________
"The Creamed Corn Kid"- Fastest draw on the internet
http://home.earthlink.net/~ryanhome/
"Don't flame me, I'll flame you"- Humble little ol' me
"Where does Creamed Corn Figure into the workings of the universe?
What really is Creamed Corn? Is it a symbol for something else?"- The
Log Lady (Twin-Peaks)
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